Can ball-tampering be done without knowledge of bowlers?

[big_gamer007]

I see everyone blaming smith, Lehman, Warner and Bancroft which is fair.

But I don’t see anyone questioning the Australian bowlers.. People like Starc, Cummings, hazelwood are the ones who ultimately get benefit from a tampered ball.. Surely they were involved as well? If they were getting good swing or seam movement without the need to tamper the ball they themselves wouldn’t want to change the shape of the ball.

Seems like the bowlers would go scot free in this matter but surely they would be 100% in the know how that the ball needs to be tampered with?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Yes, can be done without their consent too.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Theoretically. Yes.

 

[Convict]

They'd figure it out but that is completely different to making the decision to go ahead and do it.

 

[big_gamer007]

Yes, can be done without their consent too.

Theoretically. Yes.

They'd figure it out but that is completely different to making the decision to go ahead and do it.

Why would they not be involved in decision making process..Ultimately if they are bowling better with a non tampered ball than a tampered ball might make their bowling worse.. So wouldn’t they need to be asked first before changing the condition of the ball?

The bowlers have to bowl ultimately not the captain or batsmen so their permission is a must before changing the shape of the ball right? Theoretically speaking.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Why would they not be involved in decision making process..Ultimately if they are bowling better with a non tampered ball than a tampered ball might make their bowling worse.. So wouldn’t they need to be asked first before changing the condition of the ball?

The bowlers have to bowl ultimately not the captain or batsmen so their permission is a must before changing the shape of the ball right? Theoretically speaking.

There might be two pacers bowling at the same time. One pacer knows, the other is a honest guy and is kept in the dark. This is theoretically possible.

 

[WengerOut]

So if I am a bowler , I would have to make some adjustment to get reverse swing right? For that , I would have to know if the ball is conducive for it , am I correct?

 

[big_gamer007]

So if I am a bowler , I would have to make some adjustment to get reverse swing right? For that , I would have to know if the ball is conducive for it , am I correct?

That is what I am saying.. I am a bowler and I bowl better with conventional swing/seam and don’t have ability to reverse the ball.. Why would I want the ball to be tampered with? It will have a negative impact on team performance right?

 

[big_gamer007]

There might be two pacers bowling at the same time. One pacer knows, the other is a honest guy and is kept in the dark. This is theoretically possible.

Agreed Bt atleast one of the bowlers should be in the know how..

 

[Convict]

Why would they not be involved in decision making process..Ultimately if they are bowling better with a non tampered ball than a tampered ball might make their bowling worse.. So wouldn’t they need to be asked first before changing the condition of the ball?

The bowlers have to bowl ultimately not the captain or batsmen so their permission is a must before changing the shape of the ball right? Theoretically speaking.

Why would the be involved in the process?

Even club cricketers know how to prepare a ball to increase the odds of reverse swing.

 

[Convict]

That is what I am saying.. I am a bowler and I bowl better with conventional swing/seam and don’t have ability to reverse the ball.. Why would I want the ball to be tampered with? It will have a negative impact on team performance right?

If the ball isn't swinging at all it won't be negative.

 

[big_gamer007]

Why would the be involved in the process?

Even club cricketers know how to prepare a ball to increase the odds of reverse swing.

Because they have to bowl.. I am just finding it hard to believe the bowlers would not be involved when tampering happens.. As in atleast they know that tampering is being done even though they themselves are not doing it..

Not all bowlers but atleast one of the bowlers?

 

[big_gamer007]

If the ball isn't swinging at all it won't be negative.

True but the bowlers look at the ball before every delivery and surely they can identify something fishy is going on if sandpaper is being used and ball gets roughened up within 4-5 overs without any abrasive pitches?

Surely they have enough international experience to figure that out wouldn’t you think so?

 

[Convict]

Because they have to bowl.. I am just finding it hard to believe the bowlers would not be involved when tampering happens.. As in atleast they know that tampering is being done even though they themselves are not doing it..

Not all bowlers but atleast one of the bowlers?

What the tampering is for is to accelerate the natural wear and tear on one side of the ball. If one side is worn out and the other is maintained the bowler will be more likely to be able to get reverse swing.

They don't have to do anything special that requires instructions from the bowler to do that.

 

[Convict]

True but the bowlers look at the ball before every delivery and surely they can identify something fishy is going on if sandpaper is being used and ball gets roughened up within 4-5 overs without any abrasive pitches?

Surely they have enough international experience to figure that out wouldn’t you think so?

I've said they would have figured it out but that is completely different to making the decision to do it.

 

[big_gamer007]

I've said they would have figured it out but that is completely different to making the decision to do it.

Fair enough. Has there been any comments from the bowlers about it? What is the perception of fans in Australia about the bowlers? They innocent in this as per Aussie fans?

 

[Convict]

Fair enough. Has there been any comments from the bowlers about it? What is the perception of fans in Australia about the bowlers? They innocent in this as per Aussie fans?

Lehmann, Smith and Warner have taken the brunt of the blame.

 

[shaz619]

I see everyone blaming smith, Lehman, Warner and Bancroft which is fair.

But I don’t see anyone questioning the Australian bowlers.. People like Starc, Cummings, hazelwood are the ones who ultimately get benefit from a tampered ball.. Surely they were involved as well? If they were getting good swing or seam movement without the need to tamper the ball they themselves wouldn’t want to change the shape of the ball.

Seems like the bowlers would go scot free in this matter but surely they would be 100% in the know how that the ball needs to be tampered with?

Good point, they are obviously all in on it. The designated ball shiner and captain take all the heat in such instances though.

 

[Hasan123]

Bowlers will be fully aware . Surprised the Australian bowlers haven't been called out yet.

 

[sohailmm]

More than anyone ,its the fast bowlers who keep the closest eye on the ball, as balls condition is most important things for fast bowlers. Even a small scuff up can't goes unnoticed by them.
But they wont question ofcourse as they are concerned with the end result i-e ball condition and not how it happened-
Issue is getting undue attention now as its part and parcel of very team to work on the ball and maintain the shape.

 

[AFM]

There's talk in Australia media circles that the leadership group was Smith, Warner, Lyon, Starc and Hazelwood.

 

[IMMY69]

I see everyone blaming smith, Lehman, Warner and Bancroft which is fair.

But I don’t see anyone questioning the Australian bowlers.. People like Starc, Cummings, hazelwood are the ones who ultimately get benefit from a tampered ball.. Surely they were involved as well? If they were getting good swing or seam movement without the need to tamper the ball they themselves wouldn’t want to change the shape of the ball.

Seems like the bowlers would go scot free in this matter but surely they would be 100% in the know how that the ball needs to be tampered with?

I already said this yesterday.
Of course the bowlers knew. Even if they’ve weren’t told, they would have to be stupid to not notice it.

 

[big_gamer007]

I already said this yesterday.
Of course the bowlers knew. Even if they’ve weren’t told, they would have to be stupid to not notice it.

Seems most people here agree that bowlers must have been aware as well..

 

[sl-fan-of-pak]

I see everyone blaming smith, Lehman, Warner and Bancroft which is fair.

But I don’t see anyone questioning the Australian bowlers.. People like Starc, Cummings, hazelwood are the ones who ultimately get benefit from a tampered ball.. Surely they were involved as well? If they were getting good swing or seam movement without the need to tamper the ball they themselves wouldn’t want to change the shape of the ball.

Seems like the bowlers would go scot free in this matter but surely they would be 100% in the know how that the ball needs to be tampered with?

When Smith meant "leadership group" I'm pretty sure he meant Starc and Hazlewood as well..