Can India and Pakistan move past the Mumbai attacks episode?

[Nikhil_cric]

Peace with Pakistan is impossible. From an Indian POV, there are only 2 nations that can never be trusted - China and Pakistan.

I dont see any improvement in the relations especially with Pakistan as China is a big trading partner. Pakistan offers little in comparison and there is no upside to having improved relations with Pakistan.

Now, there may come a time 100 years down the line when both countries' cultures have different civilizational values enough when ex-Pakistani test captains dont make Freudianslips along the likes of "Namaaz in front of hindus" etc. Then, and only then, should there be proper bilateral relations.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Peace with Pakistan is impossible. From an Indian POV, there are only 2 nations that can never be trusted - China and Pakistan.

I dont see any improvement in the relations especially with Pakistan as China is a big trading partner. Pakistan offers little in comparison and there is no upside to having improved relations with Pakistan.

Now, there may come a time 100 years down the line when both countries' cultures have different civilizational values enough when ex-Pakistani test captains dont make Freudianslips along the likes of "Namaaz in front of hindus" etc. Then, and only then, should there be proper bilateral relations.

It's sad the Arabs care not for its own

 

[NishanKonar]

It's sad the Arabs care not for its own

Arabs care for their own citizens. That's why their citizens have much better living standards han us. They don't consider Pakistanis as their own. Just like they don't consider Indians or Bangladeshis as their own. All that talk of Ummah and Muslim brotherhood are largely confined to social media

Ideally Pakistan should do the same. Focus on its own citizens - improve education , healthcare and living standards. But like Zulfikar Bhutto say they will eat grass if required but not compromise on Kashmir or Palestine. In a few months Pakistanis will have to eat grass for real !

 

[cricketjoshila]

Peace with Pakistan is impossible. From an Indian POV, there are only 2 nations that can never be trusted - China and Pakistan.

I dont see any improvement in the relations especially with Pakistan as China is a big trading partner. Pakistan offers little in comparison and there is no upside to having improved relations with Pakistan.

Now, there may come a time 100 years down the line when both countries' cultures have different civilizational values enough when ex-Pakistani test captains dont make Freudianslips along the likes of "Namaaz in front of hindus" etc. Then, and only then, should there be proper bilateral relations.

Actually pre Xi Jinping China had tried to maintain status quo with India. Its Xi who seems to have hegemonic attitude.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Pakistan is a colony up for sale; India should just buy a few people in Pakistan and the deal will be complete.

 

[Browncaps]

Who was this traitor? Can you share the relevant court order or something like that declaring this guy as traitor. Because afaik pakistan govt officially accepted that the 26/11 attacks were planned,funded and carried out by pakistanis.

Doval was a spy. You think isi or cia or mi5 or others don't have spies in India? Spying and terrorism are not the same.

NDS was the official intelligence agency of Afghan government. Just like CIA or ISI or RAW or MI5. They must have had intelligence sharing agreements with many agencies. Does that make all those agencies party to attacks on pakistan?

TTP was formed in 2007 by Baitullah Masud. BBC in its article in 2004 wrote that pakistan military ops in tribal areas have angered the local tribes and militants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3645114.stm



This led to the formation of TTP. They were already trained for the Afghan war. They had the weapons. They just diverted it towards pakistan.

When an Indian organization is sanctioned for terrorism by any neutral agency, let me know.

Your original point has no meaning towards India. APS attack was by TTP. Who allegedly had links to NDS. And as per you since NDS had relations with a number of spy agencies around the world including RAW, as every intelligence agency has, all those be blamed for APS attack.

pmln and ppp and their leaders, they will accept blame for anything india or anyone wants.

I have no clue how you can claim they have accepted it, they just accepted pressure for their own self interests and to bully the army.

I am sure you are smart enough to comprehend he was there to fund attacks as that is indias policy, not for sight seeing etc.

Is a fact that india and its top security officials and even posters (Nishan) here accept they sponsor terrorism in Pakistan, only you are one poster who outright denies it.

I initially mentioned you would use links of allies, as expected you did, which proves my point about their credibility. Gaurav Arya has repeatedly mentioned he has Baloch separatists in their numbers ad can call them right away to kill more Pakistanis if he pleases.

Pakistan has evidence and has provided it to the top countries in the world of RAW-NDS terrorism nexus in Pakistan, if you refer to mine and others previous posts, you will not go in circles.

 

[Browncaps]

AK Chawla started his service in the Navy in 1982. 11 years after the war.

Mukti Bahini came into being in March 1971.So how could they be trained since 1965?

In my previous post that you quoted here as well I asked you to direct you concerns to india, yet you continue to think you can enforce your personal views on us and counter indias official claims.

Keeping that in mind, its my problem or an indian one since my information about his claim of plan to separate Pakistan and fund Mukti Bahini was initiated in 1965 is sourced from indian references?

Here is an example :-

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-senior-navy-officer/articleshow/87231042.cms

You are openly opposing indias official claims and trying to force Pakistanis to accept your views.

 

[Local.Dada]

In my previous post that you quoted here as well I asked you to direct you concerns to india, yet you continue to think you can enforce your personal views on us and counter indias official claims.

Keeping that in mind, its my problem or an indian one since my information about his claim of plan to separate Pakistan and fund Mukti Bahini was initiated in 1965 is sourced from indian references?

Here is an example :-

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-senior-navy-officer/articleshow/87231042.cms

You are openly opposing indias official claims and trying to force Pakistanis to accept your views.

So are you telling me Bangladeshis were treated fair in Pakistan?

No matter what spin you put on it, it was Pakistan’s fault at the end of the day. Bangladesh for what it’s worth seems to be doing way better.

It all worked out. India maybe planning from
1947 leave alone from 1965 but the opening was given from Pakistan military and government, so not sure what you are trying to prove here.

 

[cricketjoshila]

In my previous post that you quoted here as well I asked you to direct you concerns to india, yet you continue to think you can enforce your personal views on us and counter indias official claims.

Keeping that in mind, its my problem or an indian one since my information about his claim of plan to separate Pakistan and fund Mukti Bahini was initiated in 1965 is sourced from indian references?

Here is an example :-

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-senior-navy-officer/articleshow/87231042.cms

You are openly opposing indias official claims and trying to force Pakistanis to accept your views.

You are talking about claims of one person who was not even commisioned in the armed forces in 1971.

What i said has been the official version of pakistan government and accepted by world over.

You haven't replied to the question,

How did anyone know in 1965 that Mujib will win in 1970 and will be jailed and he will ask for an independent nation.

How did anyone know that Pakistan will push 10 million refugees in India?

How can anyone train Mukti Bahini in 1965 when they started in 1971?

Picking and choosing lines from a long speech to suit your agenda isn't going to work. You tried to do the same with the Doval speech.

 

[Browncaps]

So are you telling me Bangladeshis were treated fair in Pakistan?

No matter what spin you put on it, it was Pakistan’s fault at the end of the day. Bangladesh for what it’s worth seems to be doing way better.

It all worked out. India maybe planning from
1947 leave alone from 1965 but the opening was given from Pakistan military and government, so not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Only you and your ilk put a spin.

You always say occupied Kashmir is india's internal matter even though UN states it is disputed, East Pakistan was a part of Pakistan which the entire world accepts, what Pakistan does is irrelevant, it is no second country's business.

Glad that you accept india's support since its inception to train and fund separatists and break another country with zero regard for the UN or any laws, that was my point.

 

[Browncaps]

You are talking about claims of one person who was not even commisioned in the armed forces in 1971.

What i said has been the official version of pakistan government and accepted by world over.

You haven't replied to the question,

How did anyone know in 1965 that Mujib will win in 1970 and will be jailed and he will ask for an independent nation.

How did anyone know that Pakistan will push 10 million refugees in India?

How can anyone train Mukti Bahini in 1965 when they started in 1971?

Picking and choosing lines from a long speech to suit your agenda isn't going to work. You tried to do the same with the Doval speech.

So in conclaves, india allows its senior naval officers to lie?

You will not force anyone to accept propaganda, keep telling yourself Pakistan accepts it if it makes you feel better.

Your comprehension is shocking, your own top officer says india worked on separating Pak in 1965, then you question me to undermine him instead of asking him yourself?

For the third time, ask the indian officer not me.

I didn't try, I succeeded as I was mentioning actual points he stated on video, Doval proudly claimed to sponsoring terror in Pak, it shows the weakness in your argument that you question me for things your own country's army and intelligence have confirmed and even after I shared indian sources you talk of picking and choosing. I can share another indian source as well.

 

[Local.Dada]

Only you and your ilk put a spin.

You always say occupied Kashmir is india's internal matter even though UN states it is disputed, East Pakistan was a part of Pakistan which the entire world accepts, what Pakistan does is irrelevant, it is no second country's business.

Glad that you accept india's support since its inception to train and fund separatists and break another country with zero regard for the UN or any laws, that was my point.

India is not the country that is being called out for terror funding or is known as the place with most terrorist organizations and designated terrorists. Your point has no real world value. You can validate that with a small Google search from credible websites.

If it makes you feel better and happy I will agree with what ever you say but that is far removed from facts and reality.

Kashmir problem is an internal matter between India and Pakistan. What’s so surreal about that? There are 2 halves of a region on 2 sides, who said otherwise?

 

[Hextro]

Couldn't care less about these attacks. There's no reason to even acknowledge it.

 

[Browncaps]

India is not the country that is being called out for terror funding or is known as the place with most terrorist organizations and designated terrorists. Your point has no real world value. You can validate that with a small Google search from credible websites.

If it makes you feel better and happy I will agree with what ever you say but that is far removed from facts and reality.

Kashmir problem is an internal matter between India and Pakistan. What’s so surreal about that? There are 2 halves of a region on 2 sides, who said otherwise?

It shows your thinking that you are proud of indias illegal acts since inception, including the separating of a second country and funding terror in Pakistan.

My point has value that is why only you feel the need to enforce india and its allies views here because its all made up.

When even some indian posters accept india has influence that's why out of self interest its allies side with it, it renders narratives of such countries as mute, so your claims will not make any country responsible for terror. I will not repeat points, as you can read here and in other threads, there are only few state sponsors of terror.

MQM in Pakistan has repeatedly accepted RAW helps it fund terror in Karachi, they even publicly asked them for more support to spread discord in Pakistan, so its a bit rich for you refer to your allies fake claims. For clarity, as another poster has also mentioned in this thread, I accept india can and does buy politicians in Pakistan for its benefit, all I'm saying is you can accept it here, just as you are proud of 1971.

Very simple, only india claims Kashmir as its business, world and UN says otherwise.However, East Pakistan was a globally (including india officially) and by law accepted part of Pakistan.