Can Mitchell Starc become a better Test bowler than Neil Wagner?

[jeeteshssaxena]

Mitchell Starc 201 wickets in 50 Tests at 28.83.

Neil Wagner 158 wickets in 40 Tests at 28.88.

Could their records be any more similar?

But neil wagner plays in conditions more favourable for bowling.
While we all know australia has been serving pattas since time immemorial.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Respect to [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Spot on with your astute observations as always! You found yet another admirer in me, Sir!

 

[Junaids]

It’s looking very likely that Mitchell Starc will be dropped for the First Test of The Ashes at Edgbaston.

Let’s just review his record over the years:

Since the sandpaper scandal: 31 wickets in 9 Tests at 32.32.
During the 2016-2018 swing period: 88 wickets in 16 Tests at 23.19.
Before 2016: 91 wickets in 25 Tests at 30.58.

Has he improved at all in the eight years since he made his debut? I am making no allegations about ball tampering, but the period 2016-2018 looks very different to the rest of his Test career.

 

[Junaids]

Latest ICC Test rankings:

World Number 8 Test Bowler - Neil Wagner (785 points)
World Number 18 Test Bowler - Mitchell Starc (689 points)

Just be careful with this though. The rumour running locally here after Mitchell Starc's last two Sheffield Shield home performances is that the New South Wales attack of Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon has found a new technique to "work the ball".

In their last two home games they skittled Tasmania for 191 and 128 and before that Western Australia for 268 and 140.

None of us know whether Starc and Hazlewood have miraculously regained a long lost skill or whether the ball is being tampered with. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Latest ICC Test rankings:

World Number 8 Test Bowler - Neil Wagner (785 points)
World Number 18 Test Bowler - Mitchell Starc (689 points)

Just be careful with this though. The rumour running locally here after Mitchell Starc's last two Sheffield Shield home performances is that the New South Wales attack of Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon has found a new technique to "work the ball".

In their last two home games they skittled Tasmania for 191 and 128 and before that Western Australia for 268 and 140.

None of us know whether Starc and Hazlewood have miraculously regained a long lost skill or whether the ball is being tampered with. We will just have to wait and see.

Well I saw Abbas reverse swinging a 9 overs old ball when Australia toured the UAE. They may have just learned the skill from watching videos of Pakistani bowlers like Hasan and Abbas or maybe even the greats like Imran, sarfraz and the 2 W's.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Well I saw Abbas reverse swinging a 9 overs old ball when Australia toured the UAE. They may have just learned the skill from watching videos of Pakistani bowlers like Hasan and Abbas or maybe even the greats like Imran, sarfraz and the 2 W's.

The ball starts reversing in the UAE really early as the conditions are dry and there is very little humidity. Australia may be hot, but that doesn't mean that the cities are extremely dry. They would be a bit humid as most of them are coastal cities.

 

[Hyperion66]

maybe even the greats like Imran, sarfraz and the 2 W's.

Pretty sure he wouldn't do anything like that, the sandpaper gate is still fresh, yeah I said it.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

..........Starc and Hazlewood have miraculously regained a long lost skill or whether the ball is being tampered with. We will just have to wait and see.

Or maybe the long lost skill was that of ball tampering?

 

[Junaids]

Or maybe the long lost skill was that of ball tampering?

That is what we are waiting to determine.

Bear this in mind. And I will choose my words very, very carefully.

Australia has only admitted to ball tampering on one specific afternoon in one specific Test, at Cape Town, in one particular session.

They were suspected of ball-tampering at multiple times over the preceding two years and two months, starting in the 2016 Wellington Test. But nothing was ever proved against them. By the time they reached the Durban Test in February 2018, which was Mitchell Starc's last excellent Test against a top class team, the legendary South African fast bowler-turned TV producer Fanie De Villiers was convinced that they were systematically tampering with the ball using some kind of implement.

De Villiers then instructed SuperSport's TV cameramen to follow the ball around between deliveries, and within 3 innings they caught Cameron Bancroft using sandpaper to scuff the ball.

It has subsequently obviously become impossible for Australia to use that technique. And Mitchell Starc, whose Test bowling average had been 23.19 during that two year period, has seen it collapse back above 30 ever since.

But things seem to be changing. Mitchell Starc seemed to regain his swing in his Test against Sri Lanka nine months ago, and in domestic cricket he plays alongside Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon and their balls have suddenly started to swing more than the opposition's again.

Maybe they are just more skilled than the opposition. But it is strange that for over a year after being caught at Cape Town they could barely reverse swing the ball - they notably couldn't even against Pakistan and India's tailenders last year. Yet suddenly they have regained that ability.

 

[FreePalestine]

Or maybe the long lost skill was that of ball tampering?

Many bowlers around the world can reverse swing the ball. In recent history, Gul, Akhtar, Razzaq, Wahab, Abbas can all reverse swing the balls and there are plenty of cameras around. Conditions have to be in your favour, generally. Recently, even in England, Wahab was reverse swinging the ball at Lords with hundreds of sky cameras around, so reverse swing is not the same thing as tampering.

Not sure Australian conditions were ever known for producing a lot of reverse swing historically. That’s another reason why the Aussie quicks’ performances in that period are a bit odd.

 

[Abdullah719]

Faster, smarter, better: Starc warning to Pakistan

Spoiler

Australia paceman Mitchell Starc looms as a "nightmare" for opponents through this Test summer, and his fear factor may have little to do with his lethal yorker.

That's according to head coach Justin Langer, who believes the pace spearhead can thrive even when conditions are not conducive to reverse swing, a factor Starc has expertly utilised throughout his career with both red ball and white.

But Langer has savoured the 29-year-old's progress in 2019 following advice from he and Ricky Ponting, and a sustained period of work with Cricket Australia's national performance program head coach Troy Cooley during the Ashes, in which Starc played just one Test.

The focal point of the conversations and training sessions has been his ability to hit what Langer calls a "first-class length"; allied with the other weapons in his bowling arsenal, the consensus from Australia's brains trust was that improvement in that area would make Starc an even more dangerous prospect than the one who has collected his 215 Test wickets at an outstanding strike-rate of 50.0.

"He can bowl yorkers at will, he can bowl a good bouncer - it's about getting more consistent at hitting that first-class length," Langer said at the Gabba on Tuesday.

"He's never going to be a (Vernon) Philander, or a Josh Hazlewood who will bowl the same ball every ball ... but the more consistent he can hit that back-of-a-length delivery ... he's a nightmare to face and he's getting better and better at it.

"I remember one of the conversations, at Hampshire with the white ball - 'Punter' (Ponting) was there, I was there - we were saying, 'Mitch, if you hit that length more often you're actually a scary commodity because you come from so high, you are so fast. If you bowl a bit full or a bit short against good players, you keep letting (them) off the hook. But hitting that length more regularly, you are a nightmare'.

"What has most impressed me ... is how hard he has worked.

"He worked really hard with Troy Cooley in the Ashes when he wasn't playing ... I just love his development ... his maturity through that period when he wasn't playing.

"He took 10 wickets in the last Test against Sri Lanka (in February) ... and I can't wait to see him bowl in this Test."

Starc told cricket.com.au earlier this week that he’s been working on blending the lessons learned in the UK around consistency and economy rates, with his flat-out speed and dangerous inswing to the right-hander. The result in his past two Marsh Sheffield Shield matches has been 16 wickets at an average of 9.88 and an economy rate of 2.05.

"I guess the big learning from the UK was that it’s not all about air speed," Starc said.

"At times you can call upon it, but a lot of success there is built on economy rate and a holding pattern and being really, really consistent and almost bowling 'boring'.

"It's nice to come back to Australia where hopefully the wickets are fast and a bit bouncier, and go back to that mindset of controlled aggression.

"It's not out-and-out aggression, or trying to bowl as fast as I can and spraying the ball around.

"But a strength of mine is running in and bowling fast, so what I've learned over the last nine months is about having a bit of that control there as well."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/mit...ting-pakistan-first-test-the-gabba/2019-11-20

 

[Bhaijaan]

Faster, smarter, better: Starc warning to Pakistan

Spoiler

Australia paceman Mitchell Starc looms as a "nightmare" for opponents through this Test summer, and his fear factor may have little to do with his lethal yorker.

That's according to head coach Justin Langer, who believes the pace spearhead can thrive even when conditions are not conducive to reverse swing, a factor Starc has expertly utilised throughout his career with both red ball and white.

But Langer has savoured the 29-year-old's progress in 2019 following advice from he and Ricky Ponting, and a sustained period of work with Cricket Australia's national performance program head coach Troy Cooley during the Ashes, in which Starc played just one Test.

The focal point of the conversations and training sessions has been his ability to hit what Langer calls a "first-class length"; allied with the other weapons in his bowling arsenal, the consensus from Australia's brains trust was that improvement in that area would make Starc an even more dangerous prospect than the one who has collected his 215 Test wickets at an outstanding strike-rate of 50.0.

"He can bowl yorkers at will, he can bowl a good bouncer - it's about getting more consistent at hitting that first-class length," Langer said at the Gabba on Tuesday.

"He's never going to be a (Vernon) Philander, or a Josh Hazlewood who will bowl the same ball every ball ... but the more consistent he can hit that back-of-a-length delivery ... he's a nightmare to face and he's getting better and better at it.

"I remember one of the conversations, at Hampshire with the white ball - 'Punter' (Ponting) was there, I was there - we were saying, 'Mitch, if you hit that length more often you're actually a scary commodity because you come from so high, you are so fast. If you bowl a bit full or a bit short against good players, you keep letting (them) off the hook. But hitting that length more regularly, you are a nightmare'.

"What has most impressed me ... is how hard he has worked.

"He worked really hard with Troy Cooley in the Ashes when he wasn't playing ... I just love his development ... his maturity through that period when he wasn't playing.

"He took 10 wickets in the last Test against Sri Lanka (in February) ... and I can't wait to see him bowl in this Test."

Starc told cricket.com.au earlier this week that he’s been working on blending the lessons learned in the UK around consistency and economy rates, with his flat-out speed and dangerous inswing to the right-hander. The result in his past two Marsh Sheffield Shield matches has been 16 wickets at an average of 9.88 and an economy rate of 2.05.

"I guess the big learning from the UK was that it’s not all about air speed," Starc said.

"At times you can call upon it, but a lot of success there is built on economy rate and a holding pattern and being really, really consistent and almost bowling 'boring'.

"It's nice to come back to Australia where hopefully the wickets are fast and a bit bouncier, and go back to that mindset of controlled aggression.

"It's not out-and-out aggression, or trying to bowl as fast as I can and spraying the ball around.

"But a strength of mine is running in and bowling fast, so what I've learned over the last nine months is about having a bit of that control there as well."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/mit...ting-pakistan-first-test-the-gabba/2019-11-20

I doubt he could be faster or even better than 2015 days.

But he could be smarter.

We all know men get smarter with age while women go otherwise sadly but that's how it is, you cannot doubt God who has your best in his mind and has no gender bias.

Pace does not bother Pakistani bros who are used to play Shabby, Wabby

 

[Savak]

Faster, smarter, better: Starc warning to Pakistan

Spoiler

Australia paceman Mitchell Starc looms as a "nightmare" for opponents through this Test summer, and his fear factor may have little to do with his lethal yorker.

That's according to head coach Justin Langer, who believes the pace spearhead can thrive even when conditions are not conducive to reverse swing, a factor Starc has expertly utilised throughout his career with both red ball and white.

But Langer has savoured the 29-year-old's progress in 2019 following advice from he and Ricky Ponting, and a sustained period of work with Cricket Australia's national performance program head coach Troy Cooley during the Ashes, in which Starc played just one Test.

The focal point of the conversations and training sessions has been his ability to hit what Langer calls a "first-class length"; allied with the other weapons in his bowling arsenal, the consensus from Australia's brains trust was that improvement in that area would make Starc an even more dangerous prospect than the one who has collected his 215 Test wickets at an outstanding strike-rate of 50.0.

"He can bowl yorkers at will, he can bowl a good bouncer - it's about getting more consistent at hitting that first-class length," Langer said at the Gabba on Tuesday.

"He's never going to be a (Vernon) Philander, or a Josh Hazlewood who will bowl the same ball every ball ... but the more consistent he can hit that back-of-a-length delivery ... he's a nightmare to face and he's getting better and better at it.

"I remember one of the conversations, at Hampshire with the white ball - 'Punter' (Ponting) was there, I was there - we were saying, 'Mitch, if you hit that length more often you're actually a scary commodity because you come from so high, you are so fast. If you bowl a bit full or a bit short against good players, you keep letting (them) off the hook. But hitting that length more regularly, you are a nightmare'.

"What has most impressed me ... is how hard he has worked.

"He worked really hard with Troy Cooley in the Ashes when he wasn't playing ... I just love his development ... his maturity through that period when he wasn't playing.

"He took 10 wickets in the last Test against Sri Lanka (in February) ... and I can't wait to see him bowl in this Test."

Starc told cricket.com.au earlier this week that he’s been working on blending the lessons learned in the UK around consistency and economy rates, with his flat-out speed and dangerous inswing to the right-hander. The result in his past two Marsh Sheffield Shield matches has been 16 wickets at an average of 9.88 and an economy rate of 2.05.

"I guess the big learning from the UK was that it’s not all about air speed," Starc said.

"At times you can call upon it, but a lot of success there is built on economy rate and a holding pattern and being really, really consistent and almost bowling 'boring'.

"It's nice to come back to Australia where hopefully the wickets are fast and a bit bouncier, and go back to that mindset of controlled aggression.

"It's not out-and-out aggression, or trying to bowl as fast as I can and spraying the ball around.

"But a strength of mine is running in and bowling fast, so what I've learned over the last nine months is about having a bit of that control there as well."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/mit...ting-pakistan-first-test-the-gabba/2019-11-20

Lol, he is going to be without sandpaper this time.

 

[Savak]

That is what we are waiting to determine.

Bear this in mind. And I will choose my words very, very carefully.

Australia has only admitted to ball tampering on one specific afternoon in one specific Test, at Cape Town, in one particular session.

They were suspected of ball-tampering at multiple times over the preceding two years and two months, starting in the 2016 Wellington Test. But nothing was ever proved against them. By the time they reached the Durban Test in February 2018, which was Mitchell Starc's last excellent Test against a top class team, the legendary South African fast bowler-turned TV producer Fanie De Villiers was convinced that they were systematically tampering with the ball using some kind of implement.

De Villiers then instructed SuperSport's TV cameramen to follow the ball around between deliveries, and within 3 innings they caught Cameron Bancroft using sandpaper to scuff the ball.

It has subsequently obviously become impossible for Australia to use that technique. And Mitchell Starc, whose Test bowling average had been 23.19 during that two year period, has seen it collapse back above 30 ever since.

But things seem to be changing. Mitchell Starc seemed to regain his swing in his Test against Sri Lanka nine months ago, and in domestic cricket he plays alongside Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon and their balls have suddenly started to swing more than the opposition's again.

Maybe they are just more skilled than the opposition. But it is strange that for over a year after being caught at Cape Town they could barely reverse swing the ball - they notably couldn't even against Pakistan and India's tailenders last year. Yet suddenly they have regained that ability.

The Aussies may have found another technique which is undetectable to the camera

 

[Bhaijaan]

Match winning 5fer for Neil Wagner and my brother Junny [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is once again proven a genius twice within a week.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Match winning 5fer for Neil Wagner and my brother Junny [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is once again proven a genius twice within a week.

But wagner took a fifer against one of the weakest English batting lineups ever. So does it actually count?

 

[angrypathan]

Wagner will always be a superior test bowler to the spray gun tailender specialist

 

[Junaids]

Match winning 5fer for Neil Wagner and my brother Junny [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is once again proven a genius twice within a week.

To be fair, Starc is becoming great against the tail!

 

[Mamoon]

Wagner is finally getting the recognition he deserves. You know you are good when you make Smith your bunny.

 

[Space Cat]

Wagner is a machine. Steams in all day when i was struggling to just sit there all day.

 

[Manunited18]

Wagner is a machine. Steams in all day when i was struggling to just sit there all day.

Wagner is basically a work horse with limited ability, starc has a higher ceiling with ample room for improvement, can swing the bowl at 150k, seems to be more consistent of late, starc clearly better than trundler wagner

 

[Space Cat]

Wagner is basically a work horse with limited ability, starc has a higher ceiling with ample room for improvement, can swing the bowl at 150k, seems to be more consistent of late, starc clearly better than trundler wagner

Well since Wagner doesnt have any of those natural gifts but still has a fantastic record including making Steve Smith his bunny i would say hes a far more skillful bowler.

 

[Ahmed4472]

absolutely true

 

[Junaids]

Well since Wagner doesnt have any of those natural gifts but still has a fantastic record including making Steve Smith his bunny i would say hes a far more skillful bowler.

And he’s just bounced him out AGAIN!

 

[Gilly]

Well since Wagner doesnt have any of those natural gifts but still has a fantastic record including making Steve Smith his bunny i would say hes a far more skillful bowler.

Starc has made Williamson his bunny.

 

[Aman]

Starc has made Williamson his bunny.

Doesn't mean much today, just means Starc gets him before Cummins or Hazlewood.

 

[Ab Fan]

Starc has made Williamson his bunny.

Not quite an achievement. Any quality bowler in favourable conditions will make him his bunny.

Wagner has made Steven Smith his bunny and that's something he can take with him. What a bowler! 200th wicket- Steven Smith.

 

[Gilly]

Doesn't mean much today, just means Starc gets him before Cummins or Hazlewood.

It does mean something, Starc is able to dismiss Williamson before he makes any runs putting Stars team in a winning position. Wagner is able to dismiss Smith after he scores match winning runs.

 

[tyron_woodley]

both are trash outside SENA but I personally would pick starc omly because I love pace. Wagner probably is the better and more skilful bowler overall.

 

[MenInG]

Left-arm quick Neil Wagner has become the second-fastest New Zealander to take 200 Test wickets, behind only Black Caps legend Sir Richard Hadlee.

Wagner fittingly claimed the wicket of Steve Smith to reach the milestone, which comes in his 46th Test (86th innings), putting him in the top 20 fastest worldwide.

Hadlee took his 200th wicket in his 44th Test (81st innings) in August 1983 and no Kiwi has come close to that wickets-per-match rate since, with Wagner's pace-bowling counterparts Trent Boult (52 Tests) and Tim Southee (56 Tests) the next best.

Wagner, who leads the wicket-takers this series with 13, has been highly impressive in Australia, particularly the manner in which he has stuck to a short-pitched plan to Smith and, at different times, other members of the hosts' batting order, notably Matthew Wade.

Against Smith, who averages 71.32 in Australia, that approach has paid serious dividends; the right-hander has scored just 22 runs against Wagner from 116 deliveries (99 dot balls) and lost his wicket four times from four innings this series, each time to a short-pitched ball.

"Obviously Wagner's got a serious tank," said Smith at the end of day one, when he was 77 not out in what is to date his lone half-century of the series.

"He carries on and just keeps on doing it, doesn't he. But at some point, hopefully he's going to get a bit tired."

Smith's optimism must have dipped when Wagner removed him for 84 on day two, and then again for seven on day three. The 33-year-old had bowled 109 overs for the series shortly before stumps on Saturday, his 60 overs in Perth the most by a fast bowler in a Test in Australia in seven years.

His recent form has propelled him to No.3 in the ICC Test bowling rankings while he is equal-third on the list of Test wicket-takers in 2019, with 42 wickets at 17.92.

"He's an absolute machine," said Travis Head after play on day two. "He's been very impressive the way he's been able to go about it – the long spell he bowled in Perth, today he just didn't stop.

"We questioned who was going to bowl after tea and it was no surprise he took his cap off straight away and started up.

"He's an unbelievable athlete and the fields they set, how consistent he is with (bowling to) that … his pace varies and that makes it difficult as well … he's got the effort balls that are on the money and then there are variations with pace in the wicket, then the slower ball as well.

"So he's got some tricks there and he's made it difficult for us over the two games."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/nei...econd-sir-richard-hadlee-australia/2019-12-28

 

[cricketjoshila]

200 wickets at 26. Thats a very good return.

He is 33 already, if only he had got his chance earlier.

 

[King_Kohli]

Matches for left-arm pace bowlers to reach 200 test wickets:

46 Neil Wagner
49 Mitchell Johnson
50 Mitchell Starc
51 Wasim Akram
52 Trent Boult

 

[Manunited18]

Well since Wagner doesnt have any of those natural gifts but still has a fantastic record including making Steve Smith his bunny i would say hes a far more skillful bowler.

Bunny, lol

 

[wrongun]

I admire him. Enjoy his bowling even.

But he can't run through a top order to set a game up. He will wear a team down, sure as anything. But Oz have had no trouble posting up huge scores while he pounds away down one end. Johnson, Starc, Akram could all blow a game wide open in a single spell.

 

[Space Cat]

Bunny, lol

Well thought out response.

 

[Space Cat]

Starc has made Williamson his bunny.

Are you suggesting thats a better achievement?

 

[Gilly]

Are you suggesting thats a better achievement?

I just noticed that Starc has dismissed Williamson 5 times for about 80 odd runs of his bowling. They were talking about it on fox sports.

I

 

[Space Cat]

I just noticed that Starc has dismissed Williamson 5 times for about 80 odd runs of his bowling. They were talking about it on fox sports.

I

Hes done pretty well against him for sure but i think Ashwin still owns Kanes bunny rights.

 

[Abdullah719]

Smith has been dismissed 4 times by Wagner in this series and has scored just 22 runs against him.

 

[Junaids]

Smith has been dismissed 4 times by Wagner in this series and has scored just 22 runs against him.

I think Jofra Archer should get half the credit.

Smith averaged 94 against short-pitched pace bowling in Tests before the concussion.

He averages 29 since.

 

[Hasan123]

No serious team takes Wagner over Starc.

 

[Junaids]

ICC WORLD NUMBER 3
Neil Wagner: 46 Tests, 201 wickets at an average of 26.51.

ICC WORLD NUMBER 5
Mitchell Starc: 56 Tests, 240 wickets at an average of 27.08.

 

[Gilly]

ICC WORLD NUMBER 3
Neil Wagner: 46 Tests, 201 wickets at an average of 26.51.

ICC WORLD NUMBER 5
Mitchell Starc: 56 Tests, 240 wickets at an average of 27.08.

Matches against West Indies, Bangledesh and Zimbabwe.

Wagner 32.6%
Starc 5.4%

In short against the top teams Starc has 228 wickets and Wagner has 126 wickets.

 

[Abdullah719]

ICC WORLD NUMBER 3
Neil Wagner: 46 Tests, 201 wickets at an average of 26.51.

ICC WORLD NUMBER 5
Mitchell Starc: 56 Tests, 240 wickets at an average of 27.08.

2 and 7 now.

 

[ManFan]

So Mitchell Starc is once again out-performed by the real “Iron Man” of Test cricket a.k.a Neil Wagner.

Take a look you bums and reap, for those who state that Starc is the best bowler in the world are severely fooled by appearances.

He ain’t even the best bowler on his own team.

Starc:

12 wickets @ 20.25.

Wagner:

17 wickets @ 22.76.

Starc can’t even outperform Wagner on his own turf!

 

[tyron_woodley]

So Mitchell Starc is once again out-performed by the real “Iron Man” of Test cricket a.k.a Neil Wagner.

Take a look you bums and reap, for those who state that Starc is the best bowler in the world are severely fooled by appearances.

He ain’t even the best bowler on his own team.

Starc:

12 wickets @ 20.25.

Wagner:

17 wickets @ 22.76.

Starc can’t even outperform Wagner on his own turf!

pace tho pace hain yaar. I will still choose starcy lol.

 

[andy0204]

pace tho pace hain yaar. I will still choose starcy lol.

Obsession with pace must be stopped,Wagner may not have express pace but he is not trundler either.
Wagner can run even without knees he has that jigra.
If pace is everything then Shaun Tait, Mohammad Sami,Varun Aaron would be known as world class bowlers.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Obsession with pace must be stopped,Wagner may not have express pace but he is not trundler either.
Wagner can run even without knees he has that jigra.
If pace is everything then Shaun Tait, Mohammad Sami,Varun Aaron would be known as world class bowlers.

fine. You are right.

 

[BaankeJi]

So Mitchell Starc is once again out-performed by the real “Iron Man” of Test cricket a.k.a Neil Wagner.

Take a look you bums and reap, for those who state that Starc is the best bowler in the world are severely fooled by appearances.

He ain’t even the best bowler on his own team.

Starc:

12 wickets @ 20.25.

Wagner:

17 wickets @ 22.76.

Starc can’t even outperform Wagner on his own turf!

Can you compare it that way? These figures also mean that NZ wickets were shared by other Australian bowlers.

 

[ManFan]

Can you compare it that way? These figures also mean that NZ wickets were shared by other Australian bowlers.

Yes but they both had dominant Tests; Starc the first (9) and Wagner the second (7).

They were average the 3rd Test with Starc (4) and Wagner (3).

So it wasn’t as if their teammates were stealing all the glory.

 

[MenInG]

Australian fast bowler Mitchell Starc has reached an in-principle insurance settlement in his $1.53 million fight for missing the 2018 Indian Premier League through injury.

The settlement came on Monday, just two days before the case was due to be heard in the Victorian County Court. Terms of the agreement, including a financial settlement, were not yet released but are due to be filed within days. Starc's manager Andrew Fraser did not respond when contacted for comment.

Starc filed a lawsuit in April last year against the insurers of his contract to represent the Kolkata Knight Riders in the IPL.

He had been drafted for $1.8 million but had to bypass the rich tournament after he was hurt during Australia's calamitous tour of South Africa, his series ending with a fracture of his right tibial bone in the third Test in Cape Town. Represented by Mills Oakley lawyers, he is suing a syndicate of Lloyd's of London, the long-running insurance market where coverage can be bought for unique circumstances that traditional insurers don't insure against.

In a case that twice had a court date rescheduled, Fraser used mediation talks in May to provide two pieces of footage from Fox Sports of Starc bowling during the second Test against the Proteas that had been used to strengthen his case. The mediation talks failed.

Starc's camp claim he bowled on uneven foot marks on a worn pitch and "suffered an injury to his right tibial bone , revealed by a sudden onset of pain in his right calf, which worsened over the next few bowling sessions and during the next Test match".

Clyde and Co lawyers, representing the insurer, and having disputed the timing of the injury in the second Test, claimed during mediation that they had not had time to assess the authenticity of the footage from March 10. Recent documents show they delivered subpoenas to Fox Sports, Nine Entertainment Co, the owner of this masthead, and CA for a full copy of video footage of not only the three Tests in South Africa but the four Tests Starc featured in through the earlier Ashes series in Australia.

Starc missed the Boxing Day Test because of a bruised right heel on his front landing foot but returned for the final clash in Sydney. The footage could be used to determine if Starc had experienced any injury issues, which were exacerbated and led to his problems in South Africa. Clyde and Co did not respond for comment.

According to the insurers, he needed to prove "he suffered a single, sudden and unexpected event, which occurred at an identifiable time and place".

A directions hearing in Melbourne last week confirmed the case had been due to go to trial on Wednesday.

The medical reports provided by experts was intriguing.

Dr Seamus Dalton, acting on behalf of the insurer, said: "In my opinion, the plaintiff did not suffer an injury or accident on 10 March 2018. Mr Starc became aware of the onset of right posterior and posteriolateral calf pain during the course of the second Test. Onset appears to have been gradual and symptoms continued over the course of the Test."

Starc turned to orthopaedic surgeon Russel Miller, who said the injury was "complex and multi-factorial" but "it is likely, on the balance of probabilities, that specific injury occurred on 10/03/2018, which was associated with extreme physical activity, including bowling on a pitch with 'uneven footmarks’. It is likely that the injury involved the progression of
bony stress reaction to bony stress fracture".

Starc could have secured a multi-million pay day should he have nominated for this year's IPL, which will open next month, having been rescheduled because of the coronavirus, but he has opted to spend time at home with cricketing wife, Alyssa ahead of the summer's blockbuster Test series against India.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cri...million-ipl-payout-fight-20200810-p55k54.html

 

[Bhaijaan]

The real question is, can they both be better than Mohammad Shami?

 

[Junaids]

My understanding is that Starc realised that his case was weak, and that the prior Ashes injury meant that he was likely to lose and face huge legal costs for both sides. His insurance policy specified that cover was only for a new, single event causing injury.

And the Lloyds syndicate offered a token amount of money to ensure that he would at least cover his own legal costs, and all parties then shook hands and declared a draw.

It was a very weak case that he was never going to win in court.

 

[Junaids]

My understanding is that Starc realised that his case was weak, and that the prior Ashes injury meant that he was likely to lose and face huge legal costs for both sides. His insurance policy specified that cover was only for a new, single event causing injury.

And the Lloyds syndicate offered a token amount of money to ensure that he would at least cover his own legal costs, and all parties then shook hands and declared a draw.

It was a very weak case that he was never going to win in court.

Starc was trying to win a $1.53 million payout, but had probably incurred $100,000 in legal fees.

But the burden was on him to prove which delivery was the one which injured him. But the insurance syndicate had evidence of his prior injury, combined with there being no footage of him incurring an injury at Cape Town.

I suspect that Lloyds have just written a cheque for somewhere around $100-200,000 and consider it a good deal, by saving them significant additional legal costs that may not have been recouped even after a courtroom victory. But we will never know the true amount.

 

[Ab Fan]

Mitchell Starc is a legend of the game.

244 test wickets in 57 tests with 13 5-fers and still has 3-4 years left in him.

Compare it to Michael Holding.

249 wickets in 60 tests with 13 5-fers.

And Starc did it to batsmen wearing helmet, under the bouncers rule and to better tailenders.

He is also a GOAT ODI bowler and a better batsmen.

 

[therealAB]

Mitchell Starc is a legend of the game.

244 test wickets in 57 tests with 13 5-fers and still has 3-4 years left in him.

Compare it to Michael Holding.

249 wickets in 60 tests with 13 5-fers.

And Starc did it to batsmen wearing helmet, under the bouncers rule and to better tailenders.

He is also a GOAT ODI bowler and a better batsmen.

You state those figures but miss the most important - average. He has days where he just bowls pies, and his overseas record has been very average. Below:
McDermott
Fleming
Gillespie
McGrath
Johnson
Harris
Clark
Cummins
Hazlewood have been better froom Aus

For me, being an ODI GOAT isn't enough to be a legend - I don't see people like Dhoni, Bevan and Jones as legends

 

[Ab Fan]

You state those figures but miss the most important - average. He has days where he just bowls pies, and his overseas record has been very average. Below:
McDermott
Fleming
Gillespie
McGrath
Johnson
Harris
Clark
Cummins
Hazlewood have been better froom Aus

For me, being an ODI GOAT isn't enough to be a legend - I don't see people like Dhoni, Bevan and Jones as legends

Averages 26 but wickets per match and no of fifers are same as Michael Holding.

That higher average only means that he bowled more which means he was more important to Australian bowling than Holding was to Windies.

What will you say if he ends with 400 test wickets in just 85 tests at similar average?

 

[tyron_woodley]

You state those figures but miss the most important - average. He has days where he just bowls pies, and his overseas record has been very average. Below:
McDermott
Fleming
Gillespie
McGrath
Johnson
Harris
Clark
Cummins
Hazlewood have been better froom Aus

For me, being an ODI GOAT isn't enough to be a legend - I don't see people like Dhoni, Bevan and Jones as legends

I agree but Harris Clark dint play enough. flems is underrated.
Gillespie is underrated. Johnson is overrated.


I agree with the last statement. dhoni to me isn't an ATG.

 

[therealAB]

Averages 26 but wickets per match and no of fifers are same as Michael Holding.

That higher average only means that he bowled more which means he was more important to Australian bowling than Holding was to Windies.

What will you say if he ends with 400 test wickets in just 85 tests at similar average?

Higher average means that he spends more runs per wickets.

Starc bowls 108 ball per innings while Holding bowls 112. If you are going to use statistics make them better

If he ends up with 400 wickets in 85 tests, he is a different bowler with significantly more WPM than he does atm. I would have to rate him then based off how he has performed overseas

 

[MenInG]

A bulked-up Mitch Starc says his off-season in the gym and modified bowling action could see him hit the magical 100mph mark he came close to breaking five years ago.

The left-armer has put on five kilograms of muscle while training with his NSW teammates during the COVID-19 layoff, which has allowed him to rest his fatigued frame following a taxing 11-month stretch of continuous cricket ahead of a blockbuster summer against Virat Kohli's India.

"At the end of summers, I've been down to 87kg at my lowest and I'm at 93kg at the moment which is where I want to be at," Starc told cricket.com.au.

"I've started summers around that 90-91kg mark so I'm in a good place now, feeling really strong.

"It's been a good amount of time in the gym and now I'm back bowling and running and have enjoyed the time at home to be able to do that and rest the aches and pains of bowling through a 11-month tour like the other boys have as well."

Starc says a lack of appetite when he is bowling has been the major reason why his weight fluctuates throughout a summer, but he has made strides in that area to maintain his mass.

While the addition of extra muscle is aimed at making the 30-year-old more resilient against his gruelling workloads as a fast bowler, it is also designed to make his third and fourth spells at the end of a Test series just as fast as his opening gambit at the start of a summer.

But more weight means more force through Starc's front leg, which makes managing his mass a balancing act.

And each time Starc has let go of the handbrake, injury has tended to follow.

When Starc sent world cricket into a frenzy after bowling a 160.4kph (99.7mph) rocket against New Zealand at the WACA Ground in November 2015, he broke down the following match – the inaugural day-night Test in Adelaide – breaking his foot early in the contest.

He suffered a stress fracture in the same foot halfway through the 2017 Test tour of India, and when he cranked up the pace again against Sri Lanka in February 2019 at Manuka Oval, where his average bowling speed was a blistering 151.3kph, it left Starc with a strained pectoral muscle.

Those injuries remain in the back of Starc's mind when he considers letting loose but with a refreshed and reinforced physique, a return to those searing speeds are not out of the realms of possibility.

"It would be nice but at the same time the two occasions I've been up around that (160kph) mark I've snapped my foot," he said.

"Hopefully that's not the case but when everything's going well, that rhythm is happening and conditions suit, then I can get that speed gun up.

"Perhaps that extra time in the gym and extra time off I might be able to push the limits again."

Starc played all five Tests last home summer but this time 12 months ago, he was not in Australia's first-choice Test XI for the Ashes in England.

Australia's bowling plan in the UK was based around control and consistency, a tactic which suited the likes of seamer Peter Siddle over speedster Starc, whose search for extra pace led to more loose deliveries.

Starc played one Test of the Ashes – the series-deciding fourth Test in Manchester where he picked up four wickets – but returned home with a muddled mind, unsure whether to focus on accuracy or bowl as fast as he could.

After a rough start to the domestic summer, Starc tweaked his action with the help of NSW Blues assistant coach and former New Zealand allrounder Andre Adams, and the adjustment saw the quick retain his extreme pace and hone his radar.

"At the start of the (2019-20) summer and after that UK tour, I very much got in that line and length (and) consistency mindset that the whole (fast bowling) group were about through the Ashes," Starc recalls.

"That's not to say that's not important, but I think I've found a happy medium with this little tweak to still have that better consistency but still have my pace.

"I still want to bowl fast and I'm not going to compromise that but I had to find a way that I wasn't expensive at the same time and I think that little tweak in the action has helped that.

"I'm still able to swing the ball and bowl decent pace and it's helped my cluster on my pitch map, which is what the group is all about as well."

And if Starc needed a reminder what his role in the Test side is, he wrote it on the strapping on his wrist, a colourful message that told him to 'F it' and bowl fast.

"It's a nice simple one and when I've been at my best, I've always kept it simple," he said.

"I'm not someone who has 25 different slower balls or 25 different plans.

"It's working for me and I'll definitely be keeping that one."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/mit...ustralia-nsw-blues-new-south-wales/2020-08-12

 

[sweep_shot]

I think Wagner is better.

Wagner is a proper Test specialist.

 

[Ab Fan]

Top 15 test pace bowlers in the world currently:-

1. Cummins
2. Bumrah
3. Rabada
4. Broad
5. Shami
6. Hazelwood
7. Anderson
8. Starc
9. Wagner
10. Southee
11. Ishant
12. Boult
13. Archer
14. Jamieson
15. Shaheen

 

[James Steven]

At least Starc can clean up the tail, unlike Wagner who was bowling bouncers to tailenders.

 

[andy0204]

Look how tables are turned, Wagner was useless in England and Pakistan whereas Starc was good in Srilanka and Pakistan.

 

[Ab Fan]

Starc is well ahead of Wagner. He is an all format great of the game who has dominated two World Cups with his bowling performance and has over 300 test wickets with balanced performance home, away and in Asia.