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Can Virat Kohli become an ATG in Test cricket?

Scoring a double hundred once in a 4 match test series may be good for a batsman like Hamilton Masakadza but not for a batsman like Kohli. When you are in good form you have to make it count. Consistency is the key and this is where sachin was better. There is no harm in accepting that Kohli isn't at the same level in tests as he is in the LOI's. But it's a pakistani forum so we should not accept it here. :inti
 
cricketjoshila said:
You realise he changed his batting position and came up to accomodate FTB talent Rohit Sharma.Changing of batting position effects a batsman.
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LOL you can go to any extent to defend your point. These are not your green english pitches where his batting position will make a difference. These are flat patta pitches. No need to make an excuse here. Same rohit sharma is now hitting sixes on this pitch.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Ashwin after 3 innings = 234 runs
Rahul after 3 innings = 236 runs
Kohli after 4 innings = 251 runs
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In tests Ashwin and Rahane are more useful cricketers than Kohli currently. He should start concentrating on his test batting otherwise he will become another indian LOI great like yuvraj singh and dhoni. I thought he is going to improve his average by the end of this series but he is wasting these opportunities.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
In tests Ashwin and Rahane are more useful cricketers than Kohli currently. He should start concentrating on his test batting otherwise he will become another indian LOI great like yuvraj singh and dhoni. I thought he is going to improve his average by the end of this series but he is wasting these opportunities.
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Ashwin is hands down the most important test cricketer for India, a true match-winner.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
In tests Ashwin and Rahane are more useful cricketers than Kohli currently. He should start concentrating on his test batting otherwise he will become another indian LOI great like yuvraj singh and dhoni. I thought he is going to improve his average by the end of this series but he is wasting these opportunities.
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Kohli has already surpassed Yuvi and will surpass Dhoni by a distance in test format.The question is if he can come anywhere close to dravid or sachin which he probably won't and will still have to do lot to surpass Viru or VVS although he will get there with time.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
LOL you can go to any extent to defend your point. These are not your green english pitches where his batting position will make a difference. These are flat patta pitches. No need to make an excuse here. Same rohit sharma is now hitting sixes on this pitch.
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And you can try and do anything to bring down Indians. Most people who watch cricket know that Opening and no.3 are specialist positions.And Virat is not a number 3 in tests.But then again,he is an Indian.
 
cricketjoshila said:
I am yet to see these "Large number of fans" except a few Pakistanis on PP.
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This is a stupid logic that someone who is probably a GOAT #3 in ODIs can't bat at the same position in tests despite being his team's best batsman and hiding behind the likes of Pujara just like Sachin chickened out from batting at #3 and let Dravid do all the hard work.. Ponting batted at #3 in both formats, Kallis did, Sanga did, why can't Kohli?
 
The_Odd_One said:
This is a stupid logic that someone who is probably a GOAT #3 in ODIs can't bat at the same position in tests despite being his team's best batsman and hiding behind the likes of Pujara just like Sachin chickened out from batting at #3 and let Dravid do all the hard work.. Ponting batted at #3 in both formats, Kallis did, Sanga did, why can't Kohli?
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Batsman will bat where they are supposed to bat.Kohli played 4 or 5 for his domestic team and he will do the same for India.He is not a no.3 batsman and that is a specialist position And a specialist no.3 will play there,not Kohli.

And you can try to bait me with Sachin chickened out statement,but sorry i wont take it.

Indian Players wont start batting at XYZ positions because PPers want them to.

And let me know if you believe Viv Richards Gary Sobers Greg Chappell etc chickened out because all of them played majority of their cricket below no.3. :)
 
Do ATGs average 13 in England? [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
 
cricketjoshila said:
Batsman will bat where they are supposed to bat.Kohli played 4 or 5 for his domestic team and he will do the same for India.He is not a no.3 batsman and that is a specialist position And a specialist no.3 will play there,not Kohli.

And you can try to bait me with Sachin chickened out statement,but sorry i wont take it.

Indian Players wont start batting at XYZ positions because PPers want them to.

And let me know if you believe Viv Richards Gary Sobers Greg Chappell etc chickened out because all of them played majority of their cricket below no.3. :)
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They didn't switch their batting position based on format.
 
cricketjoshila said:
And you can try and do anything to bring down Indians. Most people who watch cricket know that Opening and no.3 are specialist positions.And Virat is not a number 3 in tests.But then again,he is an Indian.
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What are you on about? I did say Kohli is on a different level in LOI's than tests. What's wrong in saying the truth? May be your standard is low because you consider a batsman with an average of 46 an ATG already and want people to accept it. He has a long way to go before he can reach the level of sachin and dravid in tests. And FYI both sachin and dravid are indians too. :inti
 
Even Ashwin > Kohli :)))

In Test format, he can't even become Indian ATG.

He lacks consistency, temperament for this format. He want to play Test cricket like T20I or ODI, but it's his mistake.

And now you have made him captain which puts more pressure on him.
 
I don't follow Indian cricket but Kohli doesn't bat at #3 :O :O Why ????? He's a beast in ODIs at #3 why would he not bat at one-down in test cricket ???
 
Vayuu said:
Is England only place where international cricket is played.
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It is a place where lateral movement, something that has historically troubled Asian batsmen, is experienced the most. This aspect signifies that the batters are out of their comfort zones and performances and runs made under such circumstances would be valued more than hitting a ton or a double on flat decks across other venues.

Yk averages 53 overall (50 at home, 50 away and 50 neutral) but people still questioned his greatness because he was struggling in England for the first three matches. In this fourth game he came back and scored a ton so that was the defining moment on how good he is actually as a test batsman.

The same logic will be applied to every Asian batsman who tours the English shores and hence performances here are what defines careers, ability, grit, determination and the stomach for fighting it out when the going gets tough.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
It is a place where lateral movement, something that has historically troubled Asian batsmen, is experienced the most. This aspect signifies that the batters are out of their comfort zones and performances and runs made under such circumstances would be valued more than hitting a ton or a double on flat decks across other venues.

Yk averages 53 overall (50 at home, 50 away and 50 neutral) but people still questioned his greatness because he was struggling in England for the first three matches. In this fourth game he came back and scored a ton so that was the defining moment on how good he is actually as a test batsman.

The same logic will be applied to every Asian batsman who tours the English shores and hence performances here are what defines careers, ability, grit, determination and the stomach for fighting it out when the going gets tough.
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English pitches haven't been lately the same though. We get a lot of flat tracks nowadays and like this series where there has been hardly any lateral movement or bounce.
 
street cricketer said:
English pitches haven't been lately the same though. We get a lot of flat tracks nowadays and like this series where there has been hardly any lateral movement or bounce.
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In this series in particular, lateral movement has been less, because it's the second half of the English summer but still it is enough to oust any venue in comparison when it comes to swing because the English conditions are tailor made for such !!

It's like going to India and saying that the tracks don't spin enough. Even if it didn't spin enough, it would be more than enough to be considered a spinning track globally. This is what I meant.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
In this series in particular, lateral movement has been less, because it's the second half of the English summer but still it is enough to oust any venue in comparison when it comes to swing because the English conditions are tailor made for such !!

It's like going to India and saying that the tracks don't spin enough. Even if it didn't spin enough, it would be more than enough to be considered a spinning track globally. This is what I meant.
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Nah, I don't want to demean Pakistan's achievements this series. They can only play what's given to them and they have already competed better than what India did 2 years ago imo. But this series has been the equivalent of the Australia vs India series for me. All the tracks have been complete belters and the only days where I saw some conventional swing was on the first days of the last and this test. I saw more swing in Sri Lanka last time than this time in England. But personally disappointed with the flat pitches because I was expecting atleast one or two bowling tracks before the series started. Seaming tracks always make for exciting viewing and both teams have exciting bowling attacks to take advantage of such conditions.
 
Lots of trolling and missing the point arguments going on.

Here are the facts:

1. Kohli is a good test player.

2. Kohli is NOT a supreme high impact test player. I have already listed out his knocks to talk about his lack of impact in Asia.

3. But outside Asia, he has had high impact knocks....whole SA and Aus series...it was almost Kohli = India when it came to batting.

4. Kohli is a bit impatient in tests which leads to his downfall.

5. Kohli has had a wonderful WI tour but needs to kick on and score a bit more in situations.. 200 followed by 40 odd in Sabina Park...means he did score in 2 tests (he played in 2 innings). Yes, he flopped in this test but its effect gets amplified due to his past and NOT his current performance.

6. The WI performance given by Kohli is similar to what was given by ATGs all the time. Go to cricinfo and check the series threads of ATGs. One big knock followed by a supporting knock followed by 1-2 failures (in 2 tests).....Now Kohli has one more test...if he fails there also, we can blame him for not kicking on but for now, its just a case of things appearing worse than it seems.
 
street cricketer said:
Nah, I don't want to demean Pakistan's achievements this series. They can only play what's given to them and they have already competed better than what India did 2 years ago imo. But this series has been the equivalent of the Australia vs India series for me. All the tracks have been complete belters and the only days where I saw some conventional swing was on the first days of the last and this test. I saw more swing in Sri Lanka last time than this time in England. But personally disappointed with the flat pitches because I was expecting atleast one or two bowling tracks before the series started. Seaming tracks always make for exciting viewing and both teams have exciting bowling attacks to take advantage of such conditions.
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Thanks for the compliment mate !! Feels nice to be congratulated by parosies :D On Topic, why doesn't Virat play #3 ??? I don't really follow Indian cricket but here I thought that he was a sure shot #3 for you guys ??

Whats up with all that ??
 
@ Bhaag Viru Bhaag: He has long way to go & is still 27. I know he is not yet there but certainly has potential , Williamson has reached 50 average recently in Zimbabwe , similarly once Smith came out from those track of SA and Australia his average started declining.But still they are the best going around and they all have lot to prove as they all are almost about similar age. So it would be great to enjoy these lads rather then being judgmental every now and then, we should be thankful to these players as they are the one who is at least showing some promising performance in present days.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
Thanks for the compliment mate !! Feels nice to be congratulated by parosies :D On Topic, why doesn't Virat play #3 ??? I don't really follow Indian cricket but here I thought that he was a sure shot #3 for you guys ??

Whats up with all that ??
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Sachin played at no.4 for around 20 years. That created a culture that India's best batsman must be at 4 (just like how Australia's best batsman always bats at 3). Since Kohli was seen as the successor to Sachin, he started playing at no.4. I don't think Kohli started playing his career at 3. Pujara who was seen as the successor to Dravid then, started playing at 3.
 
street cricketer said:
Sachin played at no.4 for around 20 years. That created a culture that India's best batsman must be at 4 (just like how Australia's best batsman always bats at 3). Since Kohli was seen as the successor to Sachin, he started playing at no.4. I don't think Kohli started playing his career at 3. Pujara who was seen as the successor to Dravid then, started playing at 3.
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Fair enough !! I mean I am not that well versed in how batting works across the border but I get what your management might be looking towards.

However, I might have to say that emulating roles of what Dravid and Sachin played earlier could be a little OTT strategy since Dravid himself was as gun a player as anyone internationally - he could walk in most world XIs without breaking a sweat and therefore they could afford to play Sachin at #4. If Dravid wouldn't have been what he was then I am presuming that Sachin would most probably have batted at #3 since he was the best batsmen in the team.

At the moment, can you say the same about Pujara ?? Is he good enough to walk into most teams?? If he is then it's all good to play him at #3 but if he isn't then I am guessing the correct move would be to make Kohli play at one-down and Pujara at #4.

My logic is that your best batsman should play the most number of balls in a game, gives the batting team more of a chance to score as many as possible.
 
raki05 said:
@ Bhaag Viru Bhaag: He has long way to go & is still 27. I know he is not yet there but certainly has potential , Williamson has reached 50 average recently in Zimbabwe , similarly once Smith came out from those track of SA and Australia his average started declining.But still they are the best going around and they all have lot to prove as they all are almost about similar age. So it would be great to enjoy these lads rather then being judgmental every now and then, we should be thankful to these players as they are the one who is at least showing some promising performance in present days.
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You are right. All of them have to prove themselves. A lot is expected from Kohli because he is our next sachin and comparisons will be made. In LOI's he can overtake sachin.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
Fair enough !! I mean I am not that well versed in how batting works across the border but I get what your management might be looking towards.

However, I might have to say that emulating roles of what Dravid and Sachin played earlier could be a little OTT strategy since Dravid himself was as gun a player as anyone internationally - he could walk in most world XIs without breaking a sweat and therefore they could afford to play Sachin at #4. If Dravid wouldn't have been what he was then I am presuming that Sachin would most probably have batted at #3 since he was the best batsmen in the team.

At the moment, can you say the same about Pujara ?? Is he good enough to walk into most teams?? If he is then it's all good to play him at #3 but if he isn't then I am guessing the correct move would be to make Kohli play at one-down and Pujara at #4.

My logic is that your best batsman should play the most number of balls in a game, gives the batting team more of a chance to score as many as possible.
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That holds true for LOIs because the number of overs are limited. But it is not the same case with Test cricket.

Different teams have different strategies. For example, England always played their best player at 4 similar to what India do. Only recently Root has moved to 3 due to the shaky batting line up, his position was always no.4 in the English team. Similarly in the previous English team, Pietersen played at 4 while Trott played at 3.

The strategy is that your most solid player should bat at 3 to blunt the new ball and your most flamboyant player should bat at 4 to take the attack to the opposition team. Trott did that at 3 and KP did his task at 4. Pujara has failed now but he had a phenomenal start to his career and so he played at 3 and Kohli felt comfortable at 4. Different teams have different tactics.
 
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ahmedwaqas92 said:
Fair enough !! I mean I am not that well versed in how batting works across the border but I get what your management might be looking towards.

However, I might have to say that emulating roles of what Dravid and Sachin played earlier could be a little OTT strategy since Dravid himself was as gun a player as anyone internationally - he could walk in most world XIs without breaking a sweat and therefore they could afford to play Sachin at #4. If Dravid wouldn't have been what he was then I am presuming that Sachin would most probably have batted at #3 since he was the best batsmen in the team.

At the moment, can you say the same about Pujara ?? Is he good enough to walk into most teams?? If he is then it's all good to play him at #3 but if he isn't then I am guessing the correct move would be to make Kohli play at one-down and Pujara at #4.

My logic is that your best batsman should play the most number of balls in a game, gives the batting team more of a chance to score as many as possible.
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England follows best bat at #4......which India follows.

Aus follows the best bat at #3.

Kohli plays too many strokes to be successful at number 4.

The philosophy that best bat should be at number 4 is that you give your best bat the best chance to kick on and impact the game. Similar to how main swing bowlers will get their preference of end...and primary spots to bowl when the conditions are the most lethal for bowling. Of course, quality of a player is determined by how he does well in non helpful conditions too but you get the point.

If a team has weak openers and a weak number 3...then coming at point 4 is not gonna help much as one would always be salvaging a situation.

However decent openers with a decent number 3 would mean the best bat at number 4 gets to impact the game big time.

Pujara is a bit at cross roads...potential great who has gone astray...but still in the current setup, he is still needed.

Kohli has tightened up his game but he has to develop patience and not play a lot of strokes. There are question marks about his test game (I mean compared to his stature). Won't be a good idea for him to play at number 3 yet.
 
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ahmedwaqas92 said:
It is a place where lateral movement, something that has historically troubled Asian batsmen, is experienced the most. This aspect signifies that the batters are out of their comfort zones and performances and runs made under such circumstances would be valued more than hitting a ton or a double on flat decks across other venues.

Yk averages 53 overall (50 at home, 50 away and 50 neutral) but people still questioned his greatness because he was struggling in England for the first three matches. In this fourth game he came back and scored a ton so that was the defining moment on how good he is actually as a test batsman.

The same logic will be applied to every Asian batsman who tours the English shores and hence performances here are what defines careers, ability, grit, determination and the stomach for fighting it out when the going gets tough.
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It depends on batsman too. Dravid was more successful in England than in Australia because his game was more suited to English conditions. Opposite was true for Laxman.

Root failed in Australia miserably. "Difficult conditions for batsmen" is a relative term.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
England follows best bat at #4......which India follows.

Aus follows the best bat at #3.

Kohli plays too many strokes to be successful at number 4.

The philosophy that best bat should be at number 4 is that you give your best bat the best chance to kick on and impact the game. Similar to how main swing bowlers will get their preference of end...and primary spots to bowl when the conditions are the most lethal for bowling. Of course, quality of a player is determined by how he does well in non helpful conditions too but you get the point.

If a team has weak openers and a weak number 3...then coming at point 4 is not gonna help much as one would always be salvaging a situation.

However decent openers with a decent number 3 would mean the best bat at number 4 gets to impact the game big time.

Pujara is a bit at cross roads...potential great who has gone astray...but still in the current setup, he is still needed.

Kohli has tightened up his game but he has to develop patience and not play a lot of strokes. There are question marks about his test game (I mean compared to his stature). Won't be a good idea for him to play at number 3 yet.
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Well said.

Also, if you look at the conditions in these countries, you can figure out what its needs are at no. 3.

In Aus, the new ball doesnt swing as much, and thus it allows the batsmen to play attacking cricket a lot earlier. Yes, there is a bit more bounce with the hard ball, but batsmen like Virat and Sachin seem to relish that.

In Eng, the amount of swing with the new ball means that the no. 3 must be technically very correct.

In India, even though it doesnt swing as much as abroad, the SG ball offers a fair amount with the new ball. Enough swing to cause trouble, and even bounce for the spinner with the new ball. Thus a number 3 in India also needs to be more technically correct than the number 4.

Interestingly, Virat could choose the position he wants to play at depending on the country. He should stick to no. 4 in all countries, except Aus. His batting style allows for him to succeed there even at 3.

But, then they would be unsettling a settled number 3, and asking him to bat lower down the order. That might be counter intuitive.
 
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LastManstanding said:
It depends on batsman too. Dravid was more successful in England than in Australia because his game was more suited to English conditions. Opposite was true for Laxman.

Root failed in Australia miserably. "Difficult conditions for batsmen" is a relative term.
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Hasn't Root played <10 Tests in Aus? I think he will improve on his record in the next Ashes.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
In this series in particular, lateral movement has been less, because it's the second half of the English summer but still it is enough to oust any venue in comparison when it comes to swing because the English conditions are tailor made for such !!

It's like going to India and saying that the tracks don't spin enough. Even if it didn't spin enough, it would be more than enough to be considered a spinning track globally. This is what I meant.
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The lateral movement has been considerably low in the this series as compared to what we had seen in years before.

But, any not too biased fan, will easily admit that Pakistan have easy outperformed India in England. In the worst case scenario, even if you lose this test and go down 3-1, Pakistan would have competed well in 3 out of the 4 tests, and only been outplayed in 1. India on the other hand, competed in only 2 tests, and were outplayed in 3. No shame in admitting that you are the better team in England.

It would be really interesting to see how you compete in Australia. Cant wait for this winter!! What a time will it be for Test Cricket. India vs England, and Australia vs Pakistan.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
England follows best bat at #4......which India follows.

Aus follows the best bat at #3.

Kohli plays too many strokes to be successful at number 4.

The philosophy that best bat should be at number 4 is that you give your best bat the best chance to kick on and impact the game. Similar to how main swing bowlers will get their preference of end...and primary spots to bowl when the conditions are the most lethal for bowling. Of course, quality of a player is determined by how he does well in non helpful conditions too but you get the point.

If a team has weak openers and a weak number 3...then coming at point 4 is not gonna help much as one would always be salvaging a situation.

However decent openers with a decent number 3 would mean the best bat at number 4 gets to impact the game big time.

Pujara is a bit at cross roads...potential great who has gone astray...but still in the current setup, he is still needed.

Kohli has tightened up his game but he has to develop patience and not play a lot of strokes. There are question marks about his test game (I mean compared to his stature). Won't be a good idea for him to play at number 3 yet.
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Root is batting three
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
In this series in particular, lateral movement has been less, because it's the second half of the English summer but still it is enough to oust any venue in comparison when it comes to swing because the English conditions are tailor made for such !!

It's like going to India and saying that the tracks don't spin enough. Even if it didn't spin enough, it would be more than enough to be considered a spinning track globally. This is what I meant.
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The English are preparing pitches according to the opposition.

They looked at Aus team and decided their kryptonite to be spin, so prepared dry'ish pitches last year.

With India they thought, that our bowlers are not that good to trouble their batsmen, and our batsmen were unknown quantities then, so went ahead with their strength.

Against Pak, they expected Amir to be lethal in swinging conditions, and expected the Pakistani batsmen to struggle even in flatter conditions , so they prepared flatter pitches.

They have gone with their initial perceptions, and unless Pakistan can win this test, their thinking would have proved to be successful.
 
The_Odd_One said:
They didn't switch their batting position based on format.
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Doesnt matter.We are talking test format here.These legends scored runs batting below no.3 and are legends unless you think they chickened out.

And Tendulkar Kohli etc started their cricket at no.5 or below in ODIs.They only came up the order because the Indian batting principle is that your best batsman should bat top 3 in ODIs so that he can set the game up.
 
Abdullah said:
Root is batting three
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He generally bats at 4. During the ashes in Aus, he batted at 3 because Trott left midway. In this series, he is batting at 3, because England dont have number 3.

As soon as England find a number, Root will move back to 4 in a jiffy.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Root's average in Aus is more than double Kohli's average in England and more than Dravid's (except that one series without McGrath & Warne). So I think he can improve easier than Kohli in England.
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Lol why do you exclude averages just because Warne and McGrath didn't play. Do you know that Warne averages around 50 vs India in Australia?:msd

Still 26 isn't a great average to make a case with conviction for someone that he would succed in the next series.
 
Sidilicious said:
He generally bats at 4. During the ashes in Aus, he batted at 3 because Trott left midway. In this series, he is batting at 3, because England dont have number 3.

As soon as England find a number, Root will move back to 4 in a jiffy.
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I think he is there long term. It doesn't really matter where he bats when u have blimming woakes coming in at 8 in ur lineup. It's less risk to put him at 3 and EnglandI've having somebody batting with Cook who can score briskly. They feel they used to get a bit stuck if opener got out and cook was batting with trott or compton
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Root's average in Aus is more than double Kohli's average in England and more than Dravid's (except that one series without McGrath & Warne). So I think he can improve easier than Kohli in England.
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So what exactly is your point here.Root average in Aus is still not convincing enough, and how conveniently you said that Root average will improve in Aus but Kohli averag would not in Eng . Ever since english series Kohli performed excellent in all condition played so far, even greatest of the game has mediocre average in one or two country and Kohli is still not yet at his pinnacle in Test. So before passing final verdict i would request you to wait and watch.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Root's average in Aus is more than double Kohli's average in England and more than Dravid's (except that one series without McGrath & Warne). So I think he can improve easier than Kohli in England.
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A poor series is a poor series. The fact that he scored at 27 doesn't change the fact that he failed.

Did you know that Root also averages only 17 in NZ. Whats the argument there?

I am not suggesting that Kohli is better than Root, but just how biased your argument are.
 
Sidilicious said:
A poor series is a poor series. The fact that he scored at 27 doesn't change the fact that he failed.

Did you know that Root also averages only 17 in NZ. Whats the argument there?

I am not suggesting that Kohli is better than Root, but just how biased your argument are.
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He has played 5 inns in NZ and still has averages 4.xx more than Kohli in Eng. There is a difference of 14 between Kohli in England and Root in Aus, that is more difference than in the averages of Afridi and Cook in Tests. Not comparable.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Root's average in Aus is more than double Kohli's average in England and more than Dravid's (except that one series without McGrath & Warne). So I think he can improve easier than Kohli in England.
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It was not Dravid's fault that mcgrath and warne didn't play. There will always be someone missing out due to injury.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
He has played 5 inns in NZ and still has averages 4.xx more than Kohli in Eng. There is a difference of 14 between Kohli in England and Root in Aus, that is more difference than in the averages of Afridi and Cook in Tests. Not comparable.
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The point is not whether Kohli is better than Root or not.

Root has been poor in Australia. He definitely has the potential to succeed there but his last tour there is not the guideline for it. That was quite clearly a failed tour no matter whichever way you look at it.
 
Vayuu said:
Is England only place where international cricket is played.
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Ponting avgs 26 in India

Viv avgs 19 in NZ

Sobers avgs 15 in NZ

All still legends.

So avg of 13 in ENG wont stop him from being considered a legend.But he needs to perform everywhere else and need to stop trying to be too brave.
 
street cricketer said:
The point is not whether Kohli is better than Root or not.

Root has been poor in Australia. He definitely has the potential to succeed there but his last tour there is not the guideline for it. That was quite clearly a failed tour no matter whichever way you look at it.
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Than what is the question? Root may become ATG if he performs well in one of Aus or NZ, preferably Aus. Kohli struggles to be consistent and won't get close to being ATG if that continues.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Than what is the question? Root may become ATG if he performs well in one of Aus or NZ, preferably Aus. Kohli struggles to be consistent and won't get close to being ATG if that continues.
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The only tour which has been a real failure for him is the England series.

Virat has been averaging 55 since that English tour with 6 tons while Root has 5 tons in the same time period when Virat had to bat on those bunsen burners during the India South Africa tour. 8 out of his 11 tons are away from home while 8 out of Root's 10 tons were scored at home.

How has Kohli been inconsistent? If anything, Root has more to prove away from England. Take off those green glasses buddy.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Then why is he not scoring in WI where even Ashwin and Saha are scoring 100s?

No harm in accepting that he might not be as good in tests as he is in LOIs.
Click to expand...


That is not a problem.

Kohli will probably end up as the GOAT ODI batsman, or at least in the top 3.

However, unless he does something extraordinary in Tests over the next decade, he most certainly won't even feature in the top 5 of all time.

That isn't a shame because he is doing unbelievable things in the ODI format but is simply an excellent Test batsman at this stage, with some way to go before he reaches legendary level in Tests.

The problem is that people compare Kohli the Test batsman to Kohli the ODI batsman, and then come to the conclusion that he is not a quality Test batsman.

If people look at his Test performances in isolation, they will see him in much better light.

The guy has scored mountains of runs in Australia before he has peaked, has scored hundreds in SA and NZ as well and has a double ton already.

He has only failed in England, and he is yet to reach his peak.

Kohli will most probably end up like Sir Viv; excellent Test batsman but an outrageous ODI batsman.
 
street cricketer said:
The only tour which has been a real failure for him is the England series.

Virat has been averaging 55 since that English tour with 6 tons while Root has 5 tons in the same time period when Virat had to bat on those bunsen burners during the India South Africa tour. 8 out of his 11 tons are away from home while 8 out of Root's 10 tons were scored at home.

How has Kohli been inconsistent? If anything, Root has more to prove away from England. Take off those green glasses buddy.
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Sorry for the late response, the Indiots had blocked all internet in Kashmir including Broadband. Kohli has struggled at home and cashed in in Aus and now in WI, he needs to improve at home to be in the discussion.
 
I am beginning to think that 'Kohli, the Captain' may take over from 'Kohli, the Batsman'. He maybe looking to take his career in the Ganguly direction rather than the Tendulkar one.

Kohli's game and technique in tests is not suitable for the top 3 positions. He is too aggressive and suspect on and around the off stump early on. His game is perfectly suited for a No 4 aka. Lara, Tendulkar etc. But, he has now given priority to the Team Strategy by moving to No 3, where he will have difficulties in order to accommodate Rohit. Unless he is playing in less demanding conditions, this will not help him in pushing up his batting averages.

So, if we are going to look for Stats to judge Kohli, currently, to me it looks like he will not reach the levels of an ATG ever unless he can drastically change his technique and approach in the early overs. Make no mistake, I am a Kohli fan, but we are talking about Tests here and we are talking only about Batting.

If, as it appears, Kohli puts more importance on Team than on personal average, it will add to his stature as a cricketer, though probably not as an ATG batsman. It would be a very good signs for an Indian player but, I cant help wondering if Rohit is really going to be worth the sacrifice.

Let's see how it goes. But for the record, I think going up to No - 3 is a strike against Kohli being able to make it to the Batting ATG charts. I really hope he can prove me wrong (and same thing for Rohit as well).
 
Mamoon said:
[/b]

That is not a problem.

Kohli will probably end up as the GOAT ODI batsman, or at least in the top 3.

However, unless he does something extraordinary in Tests over the next decade, he most certainly won't even feature in the top 5 of all time.

That isn't a shame because he is doing unbelievable things in the ODI format but is simply an excellent Test batsman at this stage, with some way to go before he reaches legendary level in Tests.

The problem is that people compare Kohli the Test batsman to Kohli the ODI batsman, and then come to the conclusion that he is not a quality Test batsman.

If people look at his Test performances in isolation, they will see him in much better light.

The guy has scored mountains of runs in Australia before he has peaked, has scored hundreds in SA and NZ as well and has a double ton already.

He has only failed in England, and he is yet to reach his peak.

Kohli will most probably end up like Sir Viv; excellent Test batsman but an outrageous ODI batsman.
Click to expand...

Excellent ODI batsman in bilateral series and against SL. Thats about it. He doesnt have it in him to succeed in tests. Unless BCCI orders other boards to roll out flat tracks, he cant buy a run
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I am not too sure.

Virat has hardly been impactful in any series in Asia.

2011 - WI toured us when team collectively scored somewhat and got wins.
2012 - NZ toured us and he did well in one of the tests
2013 - Aus toured us and barring 1 test, it was a Pujara and Vijay show who helped us get the runs (Pujara mainly)
2015 - We toured Bangladesh...just 1 innings - he didn't score I think but its just 1 inninngs
2015 - We toured SL and while he may have been India's top scorer, we were shaky throughout and MORE importantly Pujara and Vijay had played only 1 test in that series and they scored in that series....
2015 - SA toured us....Pujara and Vijay scored all the important runs in the first 3 tests...Rahane and Kohli did well in 4th test

However Kohli has done very well in Aus, SA and NZ.

WI record will be sorted soon.

Needs to really take his game to the next level to become ATG.

As of now, I am not certain about him reaching there. If he improves his impact aspect in Asia, then he has the ability.
Click to expand...

Seems to be changing that.

Played an excellent match saving 40 in Kolkata in a pitch with variable bounce for pacers. If not for the knock, NZ would have won it (if posters remember that match, the variable bounce was GONE in 4th innings after being present for 3 innings).

Then scored 200 the next game in Indore.

Then the incredible match saving 49 in Rajkot. What can I say. As clutch as it gets.

This is IMPACT which matters more than raw stats.

You are on track to becoming an ultra solid test bat Kohli. Keep doing more of it.
 
Will be high quality test match batsmen. No doubt about it.

Rahane seems to play a good innings or 2 in a series but Virat seems to have more impact in a series than Rahane.
 
150* today, showing why his test match potential should have never been in doubt. Found his feet in this format it seems.
 
finally he's starting to understand test match batting 12k runs @ 52 minimum I expect from him.
 
Was always going to make certain people look like idiots. Watch him dominate England in England whenever they tour next.

A genuine ATG in the making, but as I said before, he will always appear inferior in Tests compared to his ODI exploits because in the latter format, he is one big World Cup away from ending up as the best (or at least in the top 3) ODI batsman of all time.

In Tests he will still be an ATG but it is unlikely that he will become top 5 material.
 
he has the stardom.. but the effort he put in.. his will to learn.. I have no doubt he will be ATG.

Future generation will look to him as role model. The way he carries himself and accepts the challenge is admirable// watta cricketer
 
Getting closer to his first calendar year with 1000 runs. Will set him up nicely as he nears his batting peak of 3-4 years.
 
Seems to be finally realizing the difference between ODI batting and test batting and has started to blossom now in the later. Hes a quality batsmen with that X-Factor that very few other batsmen have.. He will become a world class test batsmen just like he is in ODIs.
 
His narrow minded fans are made to look like right clowns with premature predictions when Kohli has rarely been tested beyond his comfort zone, he got a long way to go before we can contemplate whether or not he can become an ATG.
 
I think he already has more 'away from subcontinent' test hundreds than Sangakkara, Inzamam, Younis Khan et al having played way lesser tests. And no, half of his away hundreds havn't come against rubbish WI and the likes but against competent SA, Aus and NZ attacks.

Just a matter of time before he hits beast mode in tests. 40 international hundreds already.
 
shaz619 said:
His narrow minded fans are made to look like right clowns with premature predictions when Kohli has rarely been tested beyond his comfort zone, he got a long way to go before we can contemplate whether or not he can become an ATG.
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LMAO, failing in only one single country and succeeding everywhere else means he has been rarely tested. Please see above where he already has more centuries away than some greats
 
Last edited:
Indiafan said:
LMAO, failing in only one single country and succeeding everywhere else means he has been rarely tested. Please see above where he already has more centuries away than some greats
Click to expand...

Which pitch did he get a hundred on with lateral movement, where did he score a hundred with extensive pace and bounce? all the away hundreds he got were on flat pitches away. These greats who scored runs away were in tougher conditions and also against superior bowling attacks. The one time Kohli was met with a challenging bowling attack and conditions he averaged around 13 I think
 
shaz619 said:
His narrow minded fans are made to look like right clowns with premature predictions when Kohli has rarely been tested beyond his comfort zone, he got a long way to go before we can contemplate whether or not he can become an ATG.
Click to expand...

Narrow minded critics should at least grudgingky accept that he's turning a corner in Tests instead of inventing laughable arguments.
 
ShoonyaSifar said:
Narrow minded critics should at least grudgingky accept that he's turning a corner in Tests instead of inventing laughable arguments.
Click to expand...

What corner? He is yet to establish himself as a premier test bat. Hitting a daddy at home on 1St day isn't anything special.
 
ShoonyaSifar said:
Narrow minded critics should at least grudgingky accept that he's turning a corner in Tests instead of inventing laughable arguments.
Click to expand...

His narrow minded and bigoted fans should accept that those with sense do not need to start cheer leading a players FTB feats, I suppose the barometric for greatness is right at the bottom of the barrel for them hence the nonsensical arguments advocating batting supremacy.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Seems to be finally realizing the difference between ODI batting and test batting and has started to blossom now in the later. Hes a quality batsmen with that X-Factor that very few other batsmen have.. He will become a world class test batsmen just like he is in ODIs.
Click to expand...

He is already a world class Test batsman and has been for years now. He has had one bad tour of England that's it. Otherwise, he is in the same league as Root, Smith and Williamson.

Was never at the level of players like Shafiq and Azhar as many claimed. He is a class above and will remain so and there is no shame in that.
 
shaz619 said:
His narrow minded and bigoted fans should accept that those with sense do not need to start cheer leading a players FTB feats, I suppose the barometric for greatness is right at the bottom of the barrel for them hence the nonsensical arguments advocating batting supremacy.
Click to expand...

I find it hilarious that when someone actually performs (scores 100 = Kohli, takes 5-fers Ashwin) then people make 100 excuses to put them down. But when someone actually is not performing great (Amir) the same person will find a 100 excuses why (cloud, swing, etc.) I think thats caled hypocrisy
 
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