Case studies find 70% of torture victims in Kashmir are civilians

[Madplayer]

Human Rights Groups Release First Comprehensive Report on Torture in Indian Administered Jammu & Kashmir; Case Studies Find 70% of Torture Victims are Civilians and 11% die during or as a result of torture.

Press Statement

Dated: 20.05.2019

Today Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP) and the Jammu Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society (JKCCS) released the first comprehensive report on torture in Jammu and Kashmir titled Torture: Indian State’s Instrument of Control in Indian Administered Jammu and Kashmir. The report focuses on the torture perpetrated in Jammu and Kashmir by the Indian State since 1990 and provides a contextual understanding of various phases of torture being perpetrated in Jammu and Kashmir since 1947. Using 432 case studies, the report charts out trends and patterns, targets, perpetrators, sites, contexts and impacts of torture in Jammu and Kashmir.

Due to legal, political and moral impunity extended to the armed forces, not a single prosecution has taken place in any case of human rights violations in Jammu and Kashmir.

Despite global attention and condemnation of torture following exposés of indiscriminate torture practised in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib prisons, torture remains hidden in Jammu and Kashmir, where tens of thousands of civilians have been subjected to it. Torture is used as a matter of policy by the Indian State in Jammu and Kashmir in a systematic and institutional manner, as all the institutions of the State be it legislature, executive, judiciary and armed forces form a part.

The widespread use of torture continues unabatedly in Jammu and Kashmir. As recently as 19 March 2019, a 29-year-old school principal, Rizwan Pandith was killed due to torture after being illegally detained in the Cargo camp of the Special Operations Group of Jammu and Kashmir Police. Three days later, the Police filed a case against deceased Rizwan, alleging that he was trying to escape from the Police custody while no case was filed against Police officials under whose custody he was killed.

This report gives a brief understanding of the historical background in the use of torture in Jammu and Kashmir since 1947 to curb any dissenting voices, a practice which attained an unprecedented magnitude post-1990. The report categorizes the eras after 1990 during which torture and other human rights violations, while still being carried out by the Indian armed forces and Jammu & Kashmir Police, were also outsourced to different formations like Ikhwan and Village Defence Committees (VDCs).

This report establishes that the vast number of methods of torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment, as set out in the UN OHCHR Istanbul Protocol, have been and continue to be perpetrated in Jammu and Kashmir. The forms of torture that have been documented in this report include stripping the detainees naked (190 out of 432 cases studied for this report), beating with sticks, iron rods or leather belts (326 cases), roller treatment (169 cases), water-boarding (24 cases), dunking detainees’ head in water (101 cases), electrocution including in genitals (231 cases), hanging from the ceiling, mostly upside down (121 cases), burning of the body with hot objects (35 cases), solitary confinement (11 cases), sleep deprivation (21 cases), sexual torture (238 cases) including rape and sodomy, among others.

The report points out that a predominant majority of the torture victims are civilians: 301 out of 432, which include women, students and juveniles, political activists, human rights activists and journalists. Entire populations have also been subjected to collective punishments like cordon and search operations (CASOs) during which torture and sexual violence has been common.

This report provides an insight into how torture has ruined the lives of survivors with a multitude of them suffering from chronic ailments resulting from torture. Apart from the physical ailments, people who have been tortured or even witnessed it, have suffered from psychological issues like post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). 49 of the 432 victims of torture died post-torture, 40 of them as a result of injuries received during torture. Since many deaths due to torture-related injuries are not immediate but may occur after years or even decades, accurate figures of such fatalities and morbidity are extremely hard to estimate.

Torture has been associated with other human rights violations like custodial deaths and enforced disappearances. And it is only when a case of torture is accompanied by such human rights violations that it gets reported in the media. As a result, torture has remained unnoticed and survivors continue to suffer in silence. Since policies like Operation All Out continue in Kashmir and the army is given a “free hand” as declared by the Prime Minister of India as recently as 15 February 2019, the armed forces are only emboldened to continue perpetrating torture. This report is an attempt by APDP and JKCCS to break the silence around such a penetrating violation.

The report recommends for an international investigation on torture in Kashmir, led by UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, besides urging India to ratify the UN Convention Against Torture and end the phenomenon of torture.

Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP) &

Jammu Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society (JKCCS)

Source: http://jkccs.net/torture-indian-states-instrument-of-control-jammu-kashmir/

 

[Abdullah719]

'Breaking the silence': Report documents torture in Kashmir

Srinagar, Indian-administered Kashmir - Prisoners in Indian-administered Kashmir have been subjected to abuse and torture, including "water-boarding, sleep deprivation and sexualised torture", according to a report by two rights bodies.

The 560-page report released on Monday mentions solitary confinement, sleep deprivation, and sexualised torture including rape and sodomy, used as torture techniques against Kashmiris.

Other torture methods included electrocution, hanging from a ceiling, dunking detainees' head in water (which is sometimes mixed with chili powder), said the report by Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP) and Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society (JKCCS).

During the torture detainees were stripped naked, beaten with wooden sticks, and bodies were burned with iron rods, heaters or cigarette butts, it said.

"Muzaffer Ahmed Mirza from Tral and Manzoor Ahmad Naikoo were subjected to insertion of a rod through their rectum. It caused multiple ruptures to their internal organs," reads one of the 432 testimonies documented in the report.

"While Mirza died after a few days in the hospital of lung rupture, Naikoo had to undergo five surgeries to finally heal the wounds he received due to this torture.

"Apart from insertion, a cloth was wrapped around Naikoo's penis and set on fire."

Titled, "Torture - Indian state's instrument of control in Indian-state of Jammu and Kashmir", it said that more than 70 percent of the torture victims were civilians.


'Rights violations'

India has stationed more than half a million security forces in the disputed Muslim-majority region to quash an armed rebellion against its rule. Indian forces have faced criticism for excessive use of force, with the UN human rights body last year calling for an international probe into rights violations.

The UN Human Rights Chief had also called for establishing a Commission of Inquiry (COI) to conduct a comprehensive independent international investigation into allegations of human rights violations in Kashmir.

A COI is one of the UN's highest-level probes, generally reserved for major crises like the conflict in Syria.

Rights bodies have called for repeal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), a law that gives forces immunity from prosecution.

The report, which documents cases since the start of the armed rebellion in 1990s, reveals many detainees were put under behavioural coercion where they were forced into activities that were against their "religious beliefs" like rubbing piglets on their bodies or forcing them to consume alcohol.

In some cases, it said, rats were put inside victims' trousers after soaking sugar water on their legs.

"The prisoners are forced to eat or drink filthy and harmful substances like human excreta, chili powder, dirt, gravel, chili powder mixed water, petrol, urine, and dirty water," it said.


'Reluctant in reporting'

The report reveals most of the civilian victims were usually reluctant to report the atrocities due to the fear of reprisals at the hands of security forces.

"Victims have been randomly picked up, tortured and never even told what they were tortured for," it said.

In a prologue of the report, former UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, Juan E Mendez, said the report "will be enormously helpful in drawing attention in the international community to the need to express concern about India's human rights record".


'Most underreported'

Parvez Imroz, the human rights lawyer and the president of JKCCS, told Al Jazeera that "torture is one of the massive human rights violations going on unabated in the region from last many decades".

"This report is an effort to break the silence around this heinous crime," he said.

The Director General of Police, Jammu and Kashmir state, Dilbagh Singh, rejected the torture claims.

"There are no such cases, if there have been any allegations, there are magisterial inquiries and other investigations. If they have any such case, they must tell us and we would respond to them".

Vijay Kumar, the advisor to the governor of the restive region, said that he would comment after reading the report.


Profile of torture victims

The report said that more than half of the 432 victims suffered some form of health complications after being tortured.

"In the 432 cases studied for this report, 24 are women. Out of these 12 had been raped by Indian armed personnel," the report says.

The torture survivors have battled with psychological issues long after their physical wounds were healed.

"Of the 432 victims, 44 suffered from some form of psychological difficulty after being subjected to torture," it said.

A study published in 2015 by Doctors Without Borders (known by its French initials MSF) said that 19 percent of the population in the region suffered from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Although India has been a signatory to the United Nations Convention against Torture (UNCAT) since 1997, it has not ratified the treaty to date. In all three UPRs conducted by the UNHRC in 2008, 2012 and 2017, it was recommended that India ratify the convention.

In 2010, Prevention of Torture Bill was introduced in the Indian parliament but was not passed and it lapsed in 2014.

Khurram Parvez, who is also one of the researchers for the report said that "the report is a challenge to state-imposed erasure of history and memory".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/silence-report-documents-torture-kashmir-190520060706202.html

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No responses to this thread?

Lol.

There can be no justification for this.

India is rightly condemned for their treatment of Kashmiris.

Now I hate stone pelters as much anyone possible could and don't think the army can do anything but fire back at them.... but you can't justify the other "extra curricular activities" happening in Kashmir.

 

[WebGuru]

First BBC report on Muslims under Modi now Aljazeera giving coverage to this report bt 2 rights orgs? In before Aljazeera bashing begins...

 

[Slog]

In other news the sky is blue

 

[troodon]

What can the world do to India to make them leave Kashmir? Does any country have the guts to pressure India on this?

Kashmir issue should have been resolved long long ago. Now there is no solution. Throwing stones at army and injuring a few will not give independence.

 

[King-Misbah]

No responses to this thread?

Lol.

There can be no justification for this.

India is rightly condemned for their treatment of Kashmiris.

Now I hate stone pelters as much anyone possible could and don't think the army can do anything but fire back at them.... but you can't justify the other "extra curricular activities" happening in Kashmir.

I was waiting the Pakistani liberal brigade led by [MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] to respond. However, he failed to turn up to this thread.

Indias mistreatment of Kashmiris is nothing new. They are hated for a reason.

 

[troodon]

I was waiting the Pakistani liberal brigade led by [MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] to respond. However, he failed to turn up to this thread.

Indias mistreatment of Kashmiris is nothing new. They are hated for a reason.

It takes 2 hands to clap.

People throw stones at Army and does not let Army to kill the terrorists. Army uses deadly power to disperse the people. Many innocents get killed in the operation. Rinse and repeat.

I feel both Army and Kashmiris are at fault. Let the army deal with the terrorists. Do not interfere in their operations. Army should also not fire at people unless there is an immediate threat to their lives.

The non-state actors who are fueling the gullible Kashmiri public need to be taken to task. They let Kashmiris die while their own children are happily settled in Delhi, Mumbai and Abroad.

 

[King-Misbah]

It takes 2 hands to clap.

People throw stones at Army and does not let Army to kill the terrorists. Army uses deadly power to disperse the people. Many innocents get killed in the operation. Rinse and repeat.

I feel both Army and Kashmiris are at fault. Let the army deal with the terrorists. Do not interfere in their operations. Army should also not fire at people unless there is an immediate threat to their lives.

The non-state actors who are fueling the gullible Kashmiri public need to be taken to task. They let Kashmiris die while their own children are happily settled in Delhi, Mumbai and Abroad.

I appreciate what you are saying but it is not as simple as that. What about rape? How do you justify it?

Furthermore, they do not consider themselves as Indians. Democracy should prevail and they should be allowed to decide their own future. Enough of 7,8 decades of blood shed.

 

[troodon]

I appreciate what you are saying but it is not as simple as that. What about rape? How do you justify it?

Furthermore, they do not consider themselves as Indians. Democracy should prevail and they should be allowed to decide their own future. Enough of 7,8 decades of blood shed.

Why would they not consider themselves Indians?

 

[King-Misbah]

Why would they not consider themselves Indians?

Well, it is their choice. May be they dont associate with Indians.

 

[Madplayer]

Why would they not consider themselves Indians?

How can someone be so naive! The brainwashing is real.

 

[Loralai]

I was waiting the Pakistani liberal brigade led by [MENTION=142317]Loralai[/MENTION] to respond. However, he failed to turn up to this thread.

Indias mistreatment of Kashmiris is nothing new. They are hated for a reason.

Whilst what is happening in Kashmir is deplorable, as Pakistanis our first concerns should be with Pakistan and resolving its issues instead of worrying so much about Kashmir or Indian Muslims.

If we paid the same amount of attention to religious and ethnic minorities in Pakistan as we do to the suffering of Kashmiris, we would be in a better state as a nation.

 

[troodon]

How can someone be so naive! The brainwashing is real.

Not Naive. I want the truth to come out from your mouth.

I know the answer. Just trying to see what answer you guys come up with.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Why would they not consider themselves Indians?

Why would they consider themselves Indians, they were a princely state with a large Muslim majority which should've joined Pakistan as Patel wanted only for Nehru to promise a plebiscite which the GOI has never looked like delivering

 

[PakLFC]

This is why stone pelters are not terrorists. This is why I have no sympathy when Indian soldiers are murdered at all. None whatsoever coz these terrorists deserve it. By the way India took the case to the UN before someone starts going on about Pak Kashmir.

 

[slipcatch]

No responses to this thread?

Lol.

There can be no justification for this.

India is rightly condemned for their treatment of Kashmiris.

Now I hate stone pelters as much anyone possible could and don't think the army can do anything but fire back at them.... but you can't justify the other "extra curricular activities" happening in Kashmir.

Stone pelter should be shot dead?

 

[Adijazz1706]

Stone pelter should be shot dead?

Dont go by the username, he ain't as sensible as he looks @sensible-indianfan

 

[Adijazz1706]

This implies the other 30% are militants, 70% seems too low a number tbh

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Stone pelter should be shot dead?

When the instances are super frequent, what should the army do?

Just stand back and get hit?

Mind you, they are not using real bullets like they used in TN riots.

Army will retaliate against stone pelters. It's just naive to expect them to do nothing.

Dont go by the username, he ain't as sensible as he looks @sensible-indianfan

Thank you bhai.

Why are you tagging me tho?

As if I need validation from Kashmiris or other Indians, all of whom will have issues against me (reg Kashmir posts) anyways?

When you get older and start contemplating a complex situation from multiple angles (keeping aside emotions...as hard as that may be since you are directly affected), maybe...just maybe....you will realize what SIF was trying to convey.

Good day to you sir.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Dont go by the username, he ain't as sensible as he looks @sensible-indianfan

That is the maximum humanity a morally upright indian will grant you, and yet you are complaining.

 

[Adijazz1706]

When the instances are super frequent, what should the army do?

Just stand back and get hit?

Mind you, they are not using real bullets like they used in TN riots.

Army will retaliate against stone pelters. It's just naive to expect them to do nothing.



Thank you bhai.

Why are you tagging me tho?

As if I need validation from Kashmiris or other Indians, all of whom will have issues against me (reg Kashmir posts) anyways?

When you get older and start contemplating a complex situation from multiple angles (keeping aside emotions...as hard as that may be since you are directly affected), maybe...just maybe....you will realize what SIF was trying to convey.

Good day to you sir.

Great contemplation must have been needed to decide bullets for stones is the best strategy

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Great contemplation must have been needed to decide bullets for stones is the best strategy

As expected, not an iota of nuanced thought process.

Simplify everything and keep complaining.

By the way, I am hearing militants shot down an old man for voting in this election.

Assuming this news is true, this is the kind of brave and intelligent approach needed.

 

[m.shah]

As expected, not an iota of nuanced thought process.

Simplify everything and keep complaining.

By the way, I am hearing militants shot down an old man for voting in this election.

Assuming this news is true, this is the kind of brave and intelligent approach needed.

Did you heard about army killing two civilians two days ago. One was dragged from home used as a human shield and other was married just a year ago and was the only son in his family and sole bread owner??

 

[Madplayer]

Did you heard about army killing two civilians two days ago. One was dragged from home used as a human shield and other was married just a year ago and was the only son in his family and sole bread owner??

He has a one dimensional view of it. He is trapped and cant get out of it and condemn the occupation and oppression unconditionally.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

As expected, not an iota of nuanced thought process.

Simplify everything and keep complaining.

By the way, I am hearing militants shot down an old man for voting in this election.

Assuming this news is true, this is the kind of brave and intelligent approach needed.

I'm assuming the asymmetrical nature of the power dynamics between the Kashmiris and the Indian forces is not part of your 'nuanced thought process'?

 

[Adijazz1706]

As expected, not an iota of nuanced thought process.

Simplify everything and keep complaining.

By the way, I am hearing militants shot down an old man for voting in this election.

Assuming this news is true, this is the kind of brave and intelligent approach needed.

The asymmetry in fighting stones with live bullets and shotgun fire obviously eludes you, very 'sensible' of you

 

[slipcatch]

When the instances are super frequent, what should the army do?

Just stand back and get hit?

Mind you, they are not using real bullets like they used in TN riots.

Army will retaliate against stone pelters. It's just naive to expect them to do nothing.



Thank you bhai.

Why are you tagging me tho?

As if I need validation from Kashmiris or other Indians, all of whom will have issues against me (reg Kashmir posts) anyways?

When you get older and start contemplating a complex situation from multiple angles (keeping aside emotions...as hard as that may be since you are directly affected), maybe...just maybe....you will realize what SIF was trying to convey.

Good day to you sir.

I expect them to take many actions against stone pelters but killing them with either fake or real bullet shouldn't be one.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Did you heard about army killing two civilians two days ago. One was dragged from home used as a human shield and other was married just a year ago and was the only son in his family and sole bread owner??

I condemned it right in this thread.

Have done it in the other thread.

Even in the past.

What's your take on the militants who shoot civilians who vote?

Also, you just quoted my post and responded to it without looking at the context of the discussion.

He has a one dimensional view of it. He is trapped and cant get out of it and condemn the occupation and oppression unconditionally.

Bhai.....unidimensional view is saying:

"Kashmiris are cowards."

"Indian army are cowards."

The EASIEST thing to do in the Kashmir saga is take a side and fight hard and you will have tons of supporters backing you up.

The HARDEST thing is to call out both sides for their B.S. and argue with them.

Now who has a unidimensional view and who has a nuanced view?

As for the word "occupations", let's not get into actual facts, shall we?

Had India annexed Kashmir by unlawful methods, I would have used that term. But right now that term is as meaningless and overused as terms like

"secular"

"anti-national"

I'm assuming the asymmetrical nature of the power dynamics between the Kashmiris and the Indian forces is not part of your 'nuanced thought process'?

As if anyone denies it the disparity in power dynamics.

So one side can do anything and if the other side so much as retaliates, they are wrong?

That too considering the actual reason why they were posted in the first place. As if India decided on one fine day to just flood Kashmir with its army.

The asymmetry in fighting stones with live bullets and shotgun fire obviously eludes you, very 'sensible' of you

I never said pellets are the best option available. I would prefer other methods if they can dispell the crowds.

But when you have mad crowds throwing stones frequently, you can't expect an army to molly cuddle you.

I expect them to take many actions against stone pelters but killing them with either fake or real bullet shouldn't be one.

Agreed. If there is a better way out, I am all for it.

Pellets cause too much resentment. Create more problems down the road. I am all for debating and fighting for a better solution if there exists one (the stone throwing acts get pretty ruthless).

All I am debating is the notion that:

"Kashmiris can throw stones as much as they want because they are oppressed and if the army so much as retaliates, they are cowards and shouldn't do it. After all, how much harm can stones do?"

I have actually seen this exact debate used in here.

 

[m.shah]

I condemned it right in this thread.

Have done it in the other thread.

Even in the past.

What's your take on the militants who shoot civilians who vote?

Also, you just quoted my post and responded to it without looking at the context of the discussion

Just one question to you Why does people turn to militancy? Instead of counting bodies why don't India ponder upon this?

 

[slipcatch]

I condemned it right in this thread.

Have done it in the other thread.

Even in the past.

What's your take on the militants who shoot civilians who vote?

Also, you just quoted my post and responded to it without looking at the context of the discussion.



Bhai.....unidimensional view is saying:

"Kashmiris are cowards."

"Indian army are cowards."

The EASIEST thing to do in the Kashmir saga is take a side and fight hard and you will have tons of supporters backing you up.

The HARDEST thing is to call out both sides for their B.S. and argue with them.

Now who has a unidimensional view and who has a nuanced view?

As for the word "occupations", let's not get into actual facts, shall we?

Had India annexed Kashmir by unlawful methods, I would have used that term. But right now that term is as meaningless and overused as terms like

"secular"

"anti-national"



As if anyone denies it the disparity in power dynamics.

So one side can do anything and if the other side so much as retaliates, they are wrong?

That too considering the actual reason why they were posted in the first place. As if India decided on one fine day to just flood Kashmir with its army.



I never said pellets are the best option available. I would prefer other methods if they can dispell the crowds.

But when you have mad crowds throwing stones frequently, you can't expect an army to molly cuddle you.



Agreed. If there is a better way out, I am all for it.

Pellets cause too much resentment. Create more problems down the road. I am all for debating and fighting for a better solution if there exists one (the stone throwing acts get pretty ruthless).

All I am debating is the notion that:

"Kashmiris can throw stones as much as they want because they are oppressed and if the army so much as retaliates, they are cowards and shouldn't do it. After all, how much harm can stones do?"

I have actually seen this exact debate used in here.

You said you agree with that one of the option shouldn't be killing stone pelter with either a fake or real bullet and yet you support because you believe that there is no other option (laughable).

So either you support the killing of anyone protesting in Kashmir against the occupying army or you don't.

You can't have it both way.

Let's be sensible about you being self righteous.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Just one question to you Why does people turn to militancy? Instead of counting bodies why don't India ponder upon this?

Kashmir most likely would have remained independant had Pakistan not tried to invade it after partition. Let's be fair here, the India factor does not come into the equation today wasn't for the mess Pakistan started with an attempted invasion of Kashmir.

Now let's get to reality: Indian Kashmir will always be with India, No it won't be going to Pakistan and No it won't be given independence, so what would you rather? Pelt stones at our army and make life hell for yourselves for a cause that you will never achieve or live in peace and take advantage of everything India has to offer....

If you choose to dig your own grave by all means do so...

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You said you agree with that one of the option shouldn't be killing stone pelter with either a fake or real bullet and yet you support because you believe that there is no other option (laughable).

So either you support the killing of anyone protesting in Kashmir against the occupying army or you don't.

You can't have it both way.

Let's be sensible about you being self righteous.

Nah man. Again we are delving into a yes or no answer for a complex situation.

The stone pelting is not some random isolated incident which needs to be handled with care. It's a ruthless sustained act designed to cause maximum damage and anarchy.

You can't say why not just water hose these people and or just use teargas?

The magnitude of the act is immense.

Now, is pellets the best option available?

My honest answer is I don't know. I sure hope not.

That doesn't mean I support killing of Kashmiris. At the same time, it also doesn't mean that I secretly think this is the right way to go.

Let's leave generalities and talk about specifics.

Whenever army uses any Kashmiri as human shield or perpetrates any crime on innocents.......I wholeheartedly believe it's wrong. No ifs and buts.

Same way, whenever Kashmiris take to the streets to throw stones relentlessly, I wholeheartedly condemn it and I will not be supporting them by calling the army cowards. Maybe we can discuss the methods used but retaliation will happen. It's just naive and stupid to expect it not to happen. No army in the world tolerates that.

----

And yes, sometimes, we can have it both ways.

 

[slipcatch]

Nah man. Again we are delving into a yes or no answer for a complex situation.

It isn't a complex situation, protesters throwing stones at an occupying army and army is returning fire that has and will continue to un-armed people. You are trying to make this complex issue.
The stone pelting is not some random isolated incident which needs to be handled with care. It's a ruthless sustained act designed to cause maximum damage and anarchy.

anarchy, ruthless, and sustained maximum damage? It is understandable why would use such vocabulary but let's not assume that rest of the world would fall for it, killing protesters with live ammunition, and raping is ruthless, is done to cause and sustained maximum damages.

You can't say why not just water hose these people and or just use teargas?

The magnitude of the act is immense.


Now, is pellets the best option available?

My honest answer is I don't know. I sure hope not.

That doesn't mean I support killing of Kashmiris. At the same time, it also doesn't mean that I secretly think this is the right way to go.

Let's leave generalities and talk about specifics.
You have tried to generalized and equate stone petlers with live ammunition, How man occupying army were killed or blinded by a stone.

Whenever army uses any Kashmiri as human shield or perpetrates any crime on innocents.......I wholeheartedly believe it's wrong. No ifs and buts.

Same way, whenever Kashmiris take to the streets to throw stones relentlessly, I wholeheartedly condemn it and I will not be supporting them by calling the army cowards. Maybe we can discuss the methods used but retaliation will happen. It's just naive and stupid to expect it not to happen. No army in the world tolerates that.

Indian Army is coward and inefficient, 600,000+ have failed to bring about peace in the last 70 years.
----

And yes, sometimes, we can have it both ways.

Regards

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Regards

Reading your post, I get a sense that you are either unaware of the history & facts...or trying to ignore them.

We are at opposite spectrums and I doubt we will reach a common point of agreement reg this issue.

So let's move on bhai.

 

[slipcatch]

Reading your post, I get a sense that you are either unaware of the history & facts...or trying to ignore them.

We are at opposite spectrums and I doubt we will reach a common point of agreement reg this issue.

So let's move on bhai.

I am well away of history.

Just trying to figure out your original comment that people who were throwing stones should be shot dead by an occupying army and how can one justify that comment.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I am well away of history.

Just trying to figure out your original comment that people who were throwing stones should be shot dead by an occupying army and how can one justify that comment.

Doesn't seem to appear from the way you post.

 

[slipcatch]

Doesn't seem to appear from the way you post.

Just because I am not supporting your narrative of indiscriminate and non-justifiable killing of innocents?

I understand that you have to be patriotic and support your Army criminal activities but let's not believe the rest will do the same.

 

[CCAD]

How can someone be so naive! The brainwashing is real.

Indeed! The brainwashing is real in Kashmir.