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Catches dropped off Mohammad Amir's bowling since his comeback to cricket

GoUgandaCranes said:
Do I love your posts or do I love your posts. Major lol here.

Pls Mamoon. No. Stahp. Okay? please.

The thing is, a bowler at his best (I'm saying his because I don't watch women cricket that much or follow it as a matter of fact), generates about 3 chances an innings. Like let's go by Dale Steyn or James (your favorite) Anderson and see their strike rates which is roughly 45.

If you drop like one chance an innings in crunch situations, even if Amir went on to get the wicket of the same batsman again, you kinda missed a rare opportunity.

I've seen his wicket impact stats per 1000 similar balls and they were lower than Woakes, Anderson, and even Wahab Riaz but he isn't ordinary. Unless you expected him to run over sides every single match to which he hasn't lived up to your expectation.
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Exactly. Nobody wants him to get fifers every innings in the UAE.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
Do I love your posts or do I love your posts. Major lol here.

Pls Mamoon. No. Stahp. Okay? please.

The thing is, a bowler at his best (I'm saying his because I don't watch women cricket that much or follow it as a matter of fact), generates about 3 chances an innings. Like let's go by Dale Steyn or James (your favorite) Anderson and see their strike rates which is roughly 45.

If you drop like one chance an innings in crunch situations, even if Amir went on to get the wicket of the same batsman again, you kinda missed a rare opportunity.

I've seen his wicket impact stats per 1000 similar balls and they were lower than Woakes, Anderson, and even Wahab Riaz but he isn't ordinary. Unless you expected him to run over sides every single match to which he hasn't lived up to your expectation.
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I am not interested in the numbers you posted because I have watched nearly every spell he has bowled since his return to Test cricket, and he has not been anywhere close to the hype he generated before his comeback.

I didn't call him ordinary; he clearly is quite talented but the quality of his bowling is being overstated and his shortcomings, i.e. areas where he needs to improve are conveniently brushed under the carpet because of some dropped catches, and any attempts to objectively review his bowling are shut down by sweeping statements like 'unless you expect him to run over sides every single match' and 'no one expects him to take 5-fers every innings' etc. simply derails the discussion because no one has ever said anything along those lines.

He has largely been outperformed by other pacers and the likes of Sohail and Wahab have produced better individual spells. Amir hasn't really been poor other. He has had some decent spells, some good spells and some spells where he simply went through the motions.

Overall, he has lacked impact and is just there most of the times, and has not looked like the spearhead of the pace attack.

Once again, I am not looking at his wickets tally and thus not ignoring the dropped catches; I'm keeping those factors into consideration.

In addition, I don't care about the SR of Steyn and Anderson and bla bla bla because I am waiting for Amir to win a single match for Pakistan with his bowling, which he has not been able to to do so so far with his impact-less bowling and presence, which the said bowlers have done so for their countries many, many times.

I am not obsessed with averages and couldn't care less if he averages 30+ for the rest of his career as long as he develops into a match-winner.

Lastly, and on a side note, I have trouble showing empathy for him today after the way he got run out. Probably deserves to be slapped with a 3 match ban for that.
 
A quick note on the so-called deliberate dropped catches:

Unless the fielders have decided beforehand that they will drop catches of his bowling, It is almost entirely impossible to drop reflex catches deliberately. You either take them or you don't; you don't have the time to decide that you will let this catch go and also make sure that you make the drop look believable and natural.
 
So even though the guy is not back to his best, if Pak fielders had held catches we'd be watching a guy averaging wickets at 20 odd and strike rate of 40 odd in helping Pak become Test ranked no.1

i.e. The potential for when everything clicks is HUGE !

That should be a function of time (match fitness/game sharpness) and coaching (catches)
 
Mamoon said:
In spite of the dropped catches, his bowling is still sub-standard.
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What have his numbers looked like since his return? I would say the dropped catches add about five runs to his average and five balls to his strike rate, at least. So suppose he is currently averaging 33 at 60 SR since return, without the drops he is probably at 28 and 55, which is not sub-standard by any means. That's about the same as Broad and Anderson's career figures! It may not be ATG exactly but neither is it substandard.
 
Mamoon said:
In spite of the dropped catches, his bowling is still sub-standard.
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Not exactly sub-standard just not what it was hyped up to be.

Which is why holding on to these catches is even more important. We don't have Steyn and Starc bowling in tandem here we have to hold on to every chance we get if we mean to win matches.
 
Pantani said:
What have his numbers looked like since his return? I would say the dropped catches add about five runs to his average and five balls to his strike rate, at least. So suppose he is currently averaging 33 at 60 SR since return, without the drops he is probably at 28 and 55, which is not sub-standard by any means. That's about the same as Broad and Anderson's career figures! It may not be ATG exactly but neither is it substandard.
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Amir averages 39 at a SR of 78 since his return in tests.
 
Can someone count how many catches have been dropped from Amir in test matches so far? His numbers wouldn't be as bad in his return to test cricket if they were taken.
 
Pantani said:
What have his numbers looked like since his return? I would say the dropped catches add about five runs to his average and five balls to his strike rate, at least. So suppose he is currently averaging 33 at 60 SR since return, without the drops he is probably at 28 and 55, which is not sub-standard by any means. That's about the same as Broad and Anderson's career figures! It may not be ATG exactly but neither is it substandard.
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LOL he is averaging 40 in test cricket this year and i would say 35 is SUBSTANDARD.
 
6 Tests

240.3-49-726-18 according to Cricinfo so Strike Rate 80 Average 40

Add the 10 catches dropped Strike Rate 51 Average 26

Of course that ignores the likelihood that wickets taken earlier would most likely give confidence/lead to more wickets and less runs scored so the Strike Rate and Average still overstated
 
My Granny would have taken those catches. Misbah is too old with slow reflex to stand in slips. Sami had no technique to hold slip catches.
 
Mamoon said:
In spite of the dropped catches, his bowling is still sub-standard.
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Go check his bowling in England 2010 and tell me how many wickets he took off slip catches and how many catches were dropped.

And then compare them to England 2016.

Just look at his frustration when Sami dropped that catch. That kind of frustration doesn't charge up any bowler. It instead smashes his confidence and affects his thinking.

This dropped catches thing is probably going far too long. Arthur needs to step up and set some specific slip fielders so that such chances don't cost us matches.

IMO there was nothing wrong with his bowling.
 
Hadi Rizvi said:
Go check his bowling in England 2010 and tell me how many wickets he took off slip catches and how many catches were dropped.

And then compare them to England 2016.

Just look at his frustration when Sami dropped that catch. That kind of frustration doesn't charge up any bowler. It instead smashes his confidence and affects his thinking.

This dropped catches thing is probably going far too long. Arthur needs to step up and set some specific slip fielders so that such chances don't cost us matches.

IMO there was nothing wrong with his bowling.
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His 2010 performance is an outlier. Those were extremely good conditions for bowling and both Amir and Anderson were bowling like superhuman versions of Wasim Akram.

2010 was the most bowling-friendly English summer in a long time and it has been 6 years now and we haven't seen conditions like that in England. It was a very wet summer.

In that series, both Pakistani and English batsmen struggled big time and only Trott came out of that series with some dignity intact, and he was arguably the best Test batsman during the 2010-2011 period.

On a green wicket, Amir is still lethal, as we saw in the Asia Cup against India earlier this year, but he has long way to go on flat wickets and doesn't look incisive enough.

He needs to target the stumps more like Starc, he has the pace and accuracy. Doesn't look very threatening when he bowls back of length and of course it results in dropped catches as well.

We need more LBWs and flying stumps from Amir, if he is good enough that is.
 
s28 said:
6 Tests

240.3-49-726-18 according to Cricinfo so Strike Rate 80 Average 40

Add the 10 catches dropped Strike Rate 51 Average 26

Of course that ignores the likelihood that wickets taken earlier would most likely give confidence/lead to more wickets and less runs scored so the Strike Rate and Average still overstated
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This is hilarious considering that often it was the catch of the same batsman dropped multiple times and that his 18 wickets include the same batsman who was dropped before. So according to you, Amir would get 3 wickets for.getting cook out once (if cook was dropped twice and then got out to Amir).
 
Mamoon said:
His 2010 performance is an outlier. Those were extremely good conditions for bowling and both Amir and Anderson were bowling like superhuman versions of Wasim Akram.

2010 was the most bowling-friendly English summer in a long time and it has been 6 years now and we haven't seen conditions like that in England. It was a very wet summer.

In that series, both Pakistani and English batsmen struggled big time and only Trott came out of that series with some dignity intact, and he was arguably the best Test batsman during the 2010-2011 period.

On a green wicket, Amir is still lethal, as we saw in the Asia Cup against India earlier this year, but he has long way to go on flat wickets and doesn't look incisive enough.

He needs to target the stumps more like Starc, he has the pace and accuracy. Doesn't look very threatening when he bowls back of length and of course it results in dropped catches as well.

We need more LBWs and flying stumps from Amir, if he is good enough that is.
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A bowler who induces edges is as good as a bowler who gets batsmen out by bowled or LBW.

In that 2010 Eng series both Amir and Anderson took many wickets through slip catches. My point is Amir would have had better numbers since comeback if those catches had been taken.

I really feel for poor Amir. This guy gives it his all in the field and took a stunner as his 1st catch but still seems destined to watch dollies being dropped off his bowling.
 
Mamoon said:
In spite of the dropped catches, his bowling is still sub-standard.
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Well dont you think the dropped catches have something to do with that. It affects him mentally and builds up his frustration.

Once frustrated, in my opinion it negatively affects your performance. Not only do you end up bowling the wrong line and lengths you also aim to bowl people for wickets rather than edges.

Also one thing not talked about much is that once you get a wicket not only are you fired up with adrenaline, you also have the opportunity to bowl to a new batsmen who is at his most vulnerable. This is an opportunity to get wickets in clusters. When you look at his average it is something you must bear in mind too, as one dropped catch can potentially cost 2 or 3 wickets in a spell.
 
I think too many fans had too high hopes from Amir and that's why threads like this. Many bowlers have catches dropped in international cricket and I have rarely seen huge discussion about it and attempt to calculate their average by including imagined wickets.

I think too much focus and attention on Amir is counter productive. Fans should treat him as another bowler and let him play. He didn't bowl too poorly, but he is not getting wickets. Some time you get wickets despite bowling not that well. It happens.

Also, so far in his career, he bowled really well in one series, but that was pacers paradise kind of conditions. Let him bowl at that level few more times before having too high expectations. He has plenty of time to work on his bowling though. He is 25-26 years old?
 
Boom boom legend said:
Well dont you think the dropped catches have something to do with that. It affects him mentally and builds up his frustration.

Once frustrated, in my opinion it negatively affects your performance. Not only do you end up bowling the wrong line and lengths you also aim to bowl people for wickets rather than edges. .
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Its against the West Indies team and not Australia or South African batsmen that you feel frustrated and not try again.
 
Hadi Rizvi said:
A bowler who induces edges is as good as a bowler who gets batsmen out by bowled or LBW.

In that 2010 Eng series both Amir and Anderson took many wickets through slip catches. My point is Amir would have had better numbers since comeback if those catches had been taken.

I really feel for poor Amir. This guy gives it his all in the field and took a stunner as his 1st catch but still seems destined to watch dollies being dropped off his bowling.
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Boom boom legend said:
Well dont you think the dropped catches have something to do with that. It affects him mentally and builds up his frustration.

Once frustrated, in my opinion it negatively affects your performance. Not only do you end up bowling the wrong line and lengths you also aim to bowl people for wickets rather than edges.

Also one thing not talked about much is that once you get a wicket not only are you fired up with adrenaline, you also have the opportunity to bowl to a new batsmen who is at his most vulnerable. This is an opportunity to get wickets in clusters. When you look at his average it is something you must bear in mind too, as one dropped catch can potentially cost 2 or 3 wickets in a spell.
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Catches got dropped later on, his bowling throughout the series was not great. He was good in patches but average other times.

He is not bowling at a good level at the moment and looks nowhere near a world class bowler his fans hail him to be. The dropped catches are becoming a lazy excuse now, he hasn't been impressive in spite of the dropped catches.
 
Mamoon said:
Catches got dropped later on, his bowling throughout the series was not great. He was good in patches but average other times.

He is not bowling at a good level at the moment and looks nowhere near a world class bowler his fans hail him to be. The dropped catches are becoming a lazy excuse now, he hasn't been impressive in spite of the dropped catches.
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He has actually had a pretty good series considering how poor the UAE pitches are. First game he never took any wickets in the first innings and then came back strongly second time round taking 3 top order wickets which were ultimately the key in us winning the test.

He was rested for the second match and here in the third he once again took 3 wickets, this time in the first innings. We all know what happened in the second where he had 2 drops in his opening spell. Who knows how many wickets he could have taken had West Indies been 1-1 with huge pressure playing against the new ball.

So overall he has had a decent series yet is being criticised for not ripping through the West Indies lineup. What else were you expecting on his first time ever playing a test on such dead tracks?
 
Pantani said:
Worse than I thought!

Still you have to ask yourself, who does Pakistan have who is better than that? I don't see any option but to back him.
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I don't think there is anyone questioning his place in the team. But people are still saying he is doing well, comparing him to Starc/Hazlewood etc, which is not justified.
 
Poor guy, would have gotten sextilion wickets if not for those dropped catches, he lost all will to bowl after that
 
Pathetic stuff by Pak fielders specially slip cordon.

Amir bowling BEAUTIFULLY yet again robbed off a wicket.
 
how many catches have been dropped off Amie's bowling since his return?

Poor guy even he can't hold on to his own catches.
 
I swear to God this is Danish Kaneria Syndrome all over again. However, Kaneria was robbed by Kamran 90% of the time, It seems catches off Amir's bowling are being dropped by every single player in the team :facepalm:
 
Aslam shouldn't be standing in the slips. Remember him dropping another catch or two in the past too. Probably short leg.
 
you make your own luck he is not creating enough chances so the drop catches stand out more. Also his now reduced pace means he's not capable of getting LB's and bowled's now most of Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib got majority of their wickets this way.
 
Why cry for dropped catches to prove Amir is an ATG (if not catches dropped ) ?!
Every bowler has or had to dealt with that in their whole carrier. If catches were not dropped then wasim or steyn would have double wickets they got. It's for all. If catches were not dropped the our Shahid would have 5 times wickets of what he got after debut. We do not cry for that. It goes for all bowler then why only cry for only amir's dropped catches to establish a failure after return to be ATG ?!!!!
 
Pakistan must have the worst slip cordon going right now in world cricket :facepalm:
 
His problem remains the same. He can only swing the ball when the pitch/atmosphere supports. As soon as the ball stopped swinging he looks ordinary. Even in the T20 in Bangladesh his last over was ordinary. Hence his dropped chances stand out

People try to say if all his catches were taken he would have great stats. No doubt. But that will not solve his problems on flat pitches or with old ball.
 
Indiafan said:
His problem remains the same. He can only swing the ball when the pitch/atmosphere supports. As soon as the ball stopped swinging he looks ordinary. Even in the T20 in Bangladesh his last over was ordinary. Hence his dropped chances stand out

People try to say if all his catches were taken he would have great stats. No doubt. But that will not solve his problems on flat pitches or with old ball.
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Amir problem now is his low pace he got a fiver at a flat mcg track as a 17 yr old bowling sustained 150+ that is still his best spell of bowling he is not a tall hit the deck seamer who can run through sides at mid 130's he either goes back to 145+ or retire, current amir is not test standard.
 
Indiafan said:
His problem remains the same. He can only swing the ball when the pitch/atmosphere supports. As soon as the ball stopped swinging he looks ordinary. Even in the T20 in Bangladesh his last over was ordinary. Hence his dropped chances stand out

People try to say if all his catches were taken he would have great stats. No doubt. But that will not solve his problems on flat pitches or with old ball.
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Cricket ball will only swing in certain conditions or grounds. If the ball doesn't swing for one bowler it will not swing for another.

In case you didn't know Amir swings the ball late - it doesn't telegraph early out of his hand. Now he clearly hasn't managed that late swing he was getting like in England 2010 but it's not a case of it coming straight as an arrow either.

He bowled superebly yesterday, unlike the bowlers actually who had conditions in their favour but were too short and wide.
 
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I was telling my friend about the catching technique of Sami aslam. It's worst then a street cricketer. I can't believe this guy has payed so many years for Pakistan U19. Unbelieveable and absolutely unprofessional. The blame goes to all of the coaches and blah blah
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Waqar Younis "that must be about 20 catches dropped off Mohammad Amir's bowling in the last few months" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NZvPAK?src=hash">#NZvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/802273169759436800">November 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Sami Aslam hasn't got the technique to catch at slip.

Doesn't even look at the ball. Shocking that he is even at slip after seeing these 2 drops. Anyone can drop them but Sami doesn't even look like catching them
 
Generally, I'm not one for conspiracy theories but honestly, this is beyond my understanding. 20 odd catches dropped off Amir bowling in what, 8 tests? Doesn't make any sense. Karm/Fate or just hate for Amir?
 
Some holier than though posters are probably hoping Amir has more catches dropped off his bowling only so they can criticize him and sarcastically call him a "saviour" etc. Then when someone brings up said drops, they will say that everyone has catches dropped off their bowling. Amir is the best bowler in this country and some of you crybabies should just deal with it
 
Abdul said:
I have no sympathy for him at all. Deserves all of these hardships.
Click to expand...

Awful post. This is the other extreme. You have shown how much you care about how the team does. Who cars if it hurts the team as long as Amir keeps getting punished right?
 
Abdul said:
Let's not travel that path as what happened six years ago hurt the team more than these dropped catches ever will.
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Who cares about what hurt the team more? We have to focus on the present. Terrible argument
 
Its his aazmaaish. Needs to persevere and keep on believing.
Only time before the sun shines on him and he shuts some of these haters up.
 
On_the_up said:
I think he has done his time, time to forgive and forget.
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People usually say that just because he has done his time he deserves to be in the national side and I find this rhetoric very laughable.

Why don't we bring back Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif also? And the most common comeback people have is 'Oh, they don't have the performances in domestic cricket to back themselves up'. What performances did Amir have in domestic cricket prior to making a comeback in international cricket? He was fast tracked into the team over other players like Sadaf Hussain etc. who have worked so hard in domestic cricket over the years.

I would love to see Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif coming back into the team just so Amir's fans are exposed in the most miserable way.
 
Abdul said:
People usually say that just because he has done his time he deserves to be in the national side and I find this rhetoric very laughable.

Why don't we bring back Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif also? And the most common comeback people have is 'Oh, they don't have the performances in domestic cricket to back themselves up'. What performances did Amir have in domestic cricket prior to making a comeback in international cricket? He was fast tracked into the team over other players like Sadaf Hussain etc. who have worked so hard in domestic cricket over the years.

I would love to see Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif coming back into the team just so Amir's fans are exposed in the most miserable way.
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Salman Butt was hardly good enough back then keep a spot in the team, never mind 5 years later.

If Asif is performing and has the stamina for test cricket I wouldn't have an issue with that.
 
Abdul said:
I have no sympathy for him at all. Deserves all of these hardships.
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Disgraceful post because cricket is not about individuals - the team loses and hurts more than the individual dropping catches.

Really don't understand some of the twisted thinking.
 
I agree with you [MENTION=139288]Abdul[/MENTION] i still remember the upset he bought to me as a fan back then and will never forgive him for that
 
Abdul said:
People usually say that just because he has done his time he deserves to be in the national side and I find this rhetoric very laughable.

Why don't we bring back Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif also? And the most common comeback people have is 'Oh, they don't have the performances in domestic cricket to back themselves up'. What performances did Amir have in domestic cricket prior to making a comeback in international cricket? He was fast tracked into the team over other players like Sadaf Hussain etc. who have worked so hard in domestic cricket over the years.

I would love to see Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif coming back into the team just so Amir's fans are exposed in the most miserable way.
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Another awful post and some really twisted logic.

Vast majority are Pakistani fans and vast majority had no problem in Amir coming back once his punishment
Served and rehabilitation completed.

Even Asif and Butt can come back if they have completed the same criteria and proven to be good enough.

You really need to stop lumping fans into "Amir fans" just because they are not complete one way haters like you.
 
90MPH said:
Disgraceful post because cricket is not about individuals - the team loses and hurts more than the individual dropping catches.

Really don't understand some of the twisted thinking.
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Worst part is that some of these people think they are much better than the people who actually want EVERY single person in the team to do well and put the team above their personal hate for a player
 
Amir shouldn't scream too much straight after the ball catches the edge. Maybe that's off putting for the slip fielders? I remember back in 2010 he had a lot of catches dropped in England aswell. This is just a theory guys not making excuses for the fielders.
 
Boi said:
Amir shouldn't scream too much straight after the ball catches the edge. Maybe that's off putting for the slip fielders? I remember back in 2010 he had a lot of catches dropped in England aswell. This is just a theory guys not making excuses for the fielders.
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Nah don't buy that theory at all, especially for slip fielders as the ball comes so quick.

The slip fielding technique is just wrong, and the hands are not soft or relaxed as a slip fielder should be.
 
aliasad1998 said:
Worst part is that some of these people think they are much better than the people who actually want EVERY single person in the team to do well and put the team above their personal hate for a player
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Yeah exactly, I have no problem them opposing the players return.

What I don't understand that this is Karma which is beyond stupid because the team is suffering - they can lose the matches because of these drops.

Yet these few fans get this sort of twisted satisfaction - unbelievable TBH.
 
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Amir has gone through trauma in this innings as a bowler.. I can't just imagine the mindset he will be in this innings..

Gets Raval twice, Williamson drops him himself,

Then gets a decision which is then reversed by the umpire..

He can make his own movie there's been so many lows in this innings for him..

Gotta feel for the guy..

His body language looks down, and he seems to have lost alot of confidence
 
waleed88 said:
Amir has gone through trauma in this innings as a bowler.. I can't just imagine the mindset he will be in this innings..

Gets Raval twice, Williamson drops him himself,

Then gets a decision which is then reversed by the umpire..

He can make his own movie there's been so many lows in this innings for him..

Gotta feel for the guy..

His body language looks down, and he seems to have lost alot of confidence
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Clocking 143ks, such low confidence lmao.
 
Azzurri said:
I was telling my friend about the catching technique of Sami aslam. It's worst then a street cricketer. I can't believe this guy has payed so many years for Pakistan U19. Unbelieveable and absolutely unprofessional. The blame goes to all of the coaches and blah blah
Click to expand...

I'm fairly good(ish) as far as catching is concerned.
 
AbdullahSalman said:
Generally, I'm not one for conspiracy theories but honestly, this is beyond my understanding. 20 odd catches dropped off Amir bowling in what, 8 tests? Doesn't make any sense. Karm/Fate or just hate for Amir?
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Considering he dropped his own catch, he must be involved in the conspiracy too
 
Found this tweet on twitter.
IF his 12 drops were taken in tests since his comeback
Wickets: 35,
Avg: 23.5,
S/R: 47.7

Those would have been some great numbers!
 
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