But not everything is black and white James Ellsworth or else Donald Trump ought to have credibility now right having won the battle of billionaires to help him get all the votes for presidency but if we look into the root causes he's no politician with an ineptness in the field but a popular/wealthy socialite or we'd easily label all muslims as terrorists because he shouted allah akbah whilst exploding himself. You'd also have as much of a chance as me to win the lottery or a WWF title but we both know the probability of that is low. If stats alone are the be and end all then we don't know if those 11 alleged chances would have impacted the game significantly to the point where we'd end up winning because like you say we don't know if there's a 50-50 chance if bowler X would have made use of the pressure was created or 70% Chance bowler Y or 3% bowler X or 1% Fielder W would have held on to a chance which was created by one of the 11 chances which had been taken.
Here's the truth though from what I've seen, while Amir has been let down by the fielders; we can both agree that he is not the bowler he once was but a mere shadow of his former self. If you forget the chances which were not taken he has bowled quiet well, he bowls a consistent probing line irrespective of he conditions and wicket but he just can't utilize helpful conditions as well as he once did. People think that clouds and green pitch will automatically result in wickets, that's not the case. It will take a while for him to get back to his best but frankly I don't have high expectations now, people have been consumed by nostalgia. Amir is no longer invincible, he has been humanized. People can try and deny this but even those who didn't have high hopes of his comeback given the layoff etc deep down expected him to squash batsman in the same manner GB dethroned Broid in 84 seconds! So all the peeps complaining now are either closet amir fans or just hate 17/18 year old spot fixers because they had acheived more then Nelson Mandela by the same age.
I don't care about Amir now, he's on the level of Afridi for me now in terms of me not giving a damn!Am behind team Sohail, what a tiger, exceptional main-event potential and he's had a lot odds stacked against him to such as a long lay off in between his last test and the one on his comeback in England, also being old/fragile but man he gives it 200% even when down and out, the mans a locomotive; maybe a fragile one but it still works dammit
Other pakistani bowlers should also get their threads for dropped catches off their bowling. Why special attention is given to Amir only? No doubt Amir is a good bowler but he hasn't performed according to fans expectations. It's not his fault but I think bowlers like tanvir, gul and junaid also had to deal with dropped catches off their bowling. Not to mention pakistani bowlers who bowled when kami was pakistan's main wicketkeeper.
Yea sure - any fan would want him to be the bowler he was in 2010. That's a given. Heck even he would want to be bowler he was in 2010.
However, he should be dropped/bashed because he was a great bowler who is now average, compared to our other bowlers who have always been average and/or below average and never excelled in the first place?
It sounds a lot like people want him dropped/bashed because they feel like he's toying with their emotions and they are simply frustrated by their own expectations.
Yea sure - any fan would want him to be the bowler he was in 2010. That's a given. Heck even he would want to be bowler he was in 2010.
However, he should be dropped/bashed because he was a great bowler who is now average, compared to our other bowlers who have always been average and/or below average and never excelled in the first place?
It sounds a lot like people want him dropped/bashed because they feel like he's toying with their emotions and they are simply frustrated by their own expectations.
whether I criticise him or you don't how does that impact how good or bad Amir will perform or the other pacers you speak off? at the end of the day it's down to them, there is no need to cry because it's a forum where people are free to have an open discussion where they can praise or criticise whoever they like
That's stupid! what has bashing or not bashing got to do with Amir becoming world class?
I don't want the golden boy to be dropped but am not satisfied with his performances given his previous standards, being better then Rahat Ali is hardly something to brag about is it? He's been solid and that's about it. You're derailing performances of Riaz and Sohail to advocate Amir's mythical prowess but that bowler is no more and the lot we have are not god awful in comparison to Amir barring Rahat Ali. Amir, Riaz and Sohail are pretty much on a level playing field.
Ofcourse people can bash him and say what they want.
Bottom line is - he's still our best pacer & bashing him for not being as good as he was makes no sense to me. It sounds stupid to me to say "if he was never great - we wouldn't bash him. If he was always mediocre then the rest of our bowlers, then he wouldn't warrant a bashing". It sounds like you're saying he's choosing not to be as good now as he once was.
I'm sure in a thread you mentioned he should retire - however - you then went on to talk about his "mystical gimmick" so I'm guessing you were joking there
Absolutely - Sohail and Wahab have been very solid performers along with Amir since the England tour and there is no denying that. Both of them are big men and their bodies go through a lot every time they come steaming in. I've said time and time again that Amir is mediocre and no where near as good as he wants, so I wouldn't say I was advocate Amir's mythical prowess.
Having said that - there's no denying that Amir has created more wicket taking opportunities then the other pacers regardless of if that fact annoys any players on here.
At the moment I see our pacers operating at:
Amir: 5/10
Wahab: 4/10
Sohail: 4.5/10
Purely based on the fact that Amir has created more wicket taking opportunities and I don't recall consistency or fitness being a concern. As you said - he's been solid.
Ideally (and realistically) I would like to see:
Amir: 8/10 (this is what I would say he was doing in 2010)
Wahab & Sohail raising their game to 6.5/10
I think that is achievable & that will give us a effective and impactful bowling line up.
Right now or bowling line up is just flat and doesn't really have any oomf.
from that perspective all bowlers are immune from criticism then. Beyond me why a simple idea such as natural frustration can't be comprehended by the human mind when expectations are not met. I think team India should retire and make way for Afghanistan or Ireland.
What sounds stupid is "pacers will become atg level if they are not bashed" like I said that's irrelevant, people are free to praise/criticise who they like
The touchy feely/sensitivity is saying to you "sounds like you're saying he's choosing not to be good" because you didn't get that from me!
To me they are all on a level playing field with little between them, this whole leave Amir alone because he's the goat of our attack doesn't stand because there is little between the likes of Sohail, Wahab and Amir. People defend Amir as if he's levels above Riaz and Sohail, he once was but not now.
I never said he should retire, where did you get that from
Again - going in circles here man. Again - what sounds stupid to me is "if he was never great - we wouldn't bash him. If he was always mediocre then the rest of our bowlers, then he wouldn't warrant a bashing" & I struggle to understand what the point of such bashing is.
Going with that theory - since all the bowlers are on a level playing field they all should be bashed.
Again - as I said in my previous post - you did say that, however, I'm happy to dismiss that as a joke. However, if you really want me to dig it out - lemme know - you even tagged me in it. India retiring sounds like a plan
What you call bashing is criticism, if there is no point in it then there is no point in praise either and PP may as well close this site
The human mind should be able to comprehend that Amir is not criticised for his current performances but for not bowling as well as he did, each individual is unique and Amir set the bar higher then the others with him being more talented so in the confines of his ability Amir is not bowling as well as he did so that qualifies as a criticism. As far as performances are concerned all are on a level playing field, not their talent.
Go find it for me, I am intrigued
Since you're so intrigued man here you go
The human mind should also be able to comprehend that there are some posters on here who would, and who do, bash Amir for absolutely anything because they were against his return to the team after the spot fixing scandal.
They were never willing to see him back in Pakistani colours (which - to be honest - I understand), so they take every chance they get - for instance whenever someone says that Amir has been unlucky - to bash him (which I don't understand & I feel makes these posters post less crediblity).
As a result they try and build a case for Amir to be dropped from the side which is absolutely ludacris since he is still our best pacer, despite not being at his best, which is what I've been saying on this and other threads.
Again man - I'm saying this for like the 20th time - Amir is no where near what he was in 2010 and anyone saying other wise is delusional in my opinion. However, for anyone to think that he should be dropped from the side, or that he has been bowling particularly poorly since his return is equally delusional.
Again - in the sentence above - this isn't restricted to "poorly compared to Amir of 2010" - this is talking about "poorly" in general.
The human mind should be able to comprehend that after being away from the game for 6 years there's no chance in hell that Amir could have returned to international cricket with the same form with which he left in 2010 & if anyone was expecting him to do so, they were simply setting themselves up for disappointment.
Amir of 2010 was something that you expect to see once every generation. When he burst onto the scene he was being compared to Akram - and rightly so. He was the Virat Kohli of that time. For anyone to expect that after being away from the game for 6 years he would be able to turn up and reproduce that, is simply naive and unrealistic.
He's not been great since he returned, however, he hasn't been rubbish either and he does warrant a place in the team due to a consistently solid performance across all 3 formats.
No doubt we need Amir to improve his game and become more of a threat with the ball, since at the moment at times he looks a bit flat and unthreatening. However, Wahab and Sohail have to do the exact same, because despite having the odd good spell here and there (like Amir), they also go through periods where they look unthreatening and a bit flat (like Amir).
In recent times we have been far too dependent on Yasir, and we need all of our pacers to step up their game, specially when playing in seamer friendly conditions like we saw in NZ.
but the touchy feely nature is evident and unfortunately because of that the human mind is unable to absorb the simple notion of fans being left frustrated by a bowler who we expect and hope to achieve a lot more then he is already so what poster x,y,z said is irrelevant because I don't hold their views.
What a beautiful post
The human mind can comprehend all those points because they weren't being argued to begin with
He shouldn't be dropped that has been said, 6 years after his comeback it's understandable to not reach the level he did in 2010 from the word go but he has been playing for a while now and the PCB fastracked his return to the international team, we've seen little of the bowler years ago so that's a concern but his fans are cool to downplay this by putting him on a level playing field as Riaz, Sohail when his talent is superior (which means he should be bowling a lot better then those guys by now) but they have arguably been more impactful but Amirs dropped catches will be used to argue against that so I guess that's a good excuse.
) 
See the human mind should be evolved enough to look past such frustration and keep realistic expectations from a bowler 6 years after his return. (Why did you have to start this stupid human mind stuff man?!?
Glad you changed you're view from he should retire
Well to be honest man after seeing his return - there is nothing to suggest that he does have significantly more talent than Wahab and Sohail. Maybe the 2009-2010 run was simply a purple patch where he was bowling with good rhythm and momentum.
I mean - I saw a young Anwar Ali destroy India in the under 19 World Cup final in 2006. He look like somebody who had superior talent than most pacers - and look how he evolved.
It hurts man - but it's the truth. Embrace it!....
...whilst your at it also embrace some love for the Big Dawg
or else it would be understood that the criticism towards Amir doesn't stem from expecting him to bowl like a legend immediately upon his return but to bowl at the very least better then he is given that he's had enough time to shake of that ring rust There must be no mind at all because they'd have a basic understanding of frustration which is natural and experienced by everyone and in this instance it's justified when expectations are not met even on a miniscule level but I guess that stems from a touchy feely nature which forces us to go off on a tangent and make use of a strawmans argument to advocate that there is nothing to be concerned about Amir's bowling when this is FALSE.
Realistic expectations have been kept but am guessing there is no human mind to begin with
The Truth has already been spoken and that's hard to embrace otherwise we wouldn't put Amir on a level playing field as Anwar Ali to downplay the concerns which exist, so we shouldn't post on forums according to your previous posts because criticisms or praise won't impact a players performance so we shouldn't openly discuss our thoughts, instead we should sit back and enjoy the cricket and then selectively embrace our positive gimmick when it comes to our favourites when the reality is that we're everything we hate
