Champions Trophy 2017 - Pakistan announce squad

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Squad has some liabilities like Shehzad, Wahab etc and people rightly pointed out that.
The CT win was largely due to Sarfraz's magic. The man can do wonders even with 70% of Pakistan's best possible squad. Champ!

 

[MMHS]

LOL what a thread ).

Inzi,Mickey and Sarfraz being criticized left,right and center .

I don't think there was any criticism for Arthur or Sarfraz - they were actually praised for sending back Umar and changing starting XI at first failure.

Initial squad was poor, not only poor it was horrible. It took a grand beating in 1st match and couple of injury/sent back that improved the squad. On top of that, couple of starters had to be dropped and couple of young players raised their game. In a regular team, you don't get points for selecting 15/16 players - 10-12 are automatic choices regardless of who is selector, it's that 3/4 players that makes the difference. You can give credit not to drop Babar, Amir, Hasan if you wish; but truth is that without injury, intervention from Arthur and a big loss to IND at first match, PAK starting XI could have Wahab, Ahmed and even unfit Umar in playing XI.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't think there was any criticism for Arthur or Sarfraz - they were actually praised for sending back Umar and changing starting XI at first failure.

Initial squad was poor, not only poor it was horrible. It took a grand beating in 1st match and couple of injury/sent back that improved the squad. On top of that, couple of starters had to be dropped and couple of young players raised their game. In a regular team, you don't get points for selecting 15/16 players - 10-12 are automatic choices regardless of who is selector, it's that 3/4 players that makes the difference. You can give credit not to drop Babar, Amir, Hasan if you wish; but truth is that without injury, intervention from Arthur and a big loss to IND at first match, PAK starting XI could have Wahab, Ahmed and even unfit Umar in playing XI.

I think you are wasting time by pointing out facts. Let them dance to the tunes of hindsight.

 

[MMHS]

I think you are wasting time by pointing out facts. Let them dance to the tunes of hindsight.

True posters would have stripped Ul Haq & Co., had Perera not dropped a dolly, but you know ....

 

[htariq25]

Can't blame is for being disappointed.
Umar akmal
Mohammad Hafeez
Ahmed shehzad
Wahab riaz
Azhar Ali(At the time)
All seemed like poor selections.

 

[mak36]

Thanks for the kind words. What's your point here - good, bad, ugly?

I don't need to add anything. Your words say enough. 4.5/10. )

 

[MMHS]

I don't need to add anything. Your words say enough. 4.5/10. )

That 4.5 came out of an explanation as well, for those who can read and understand, did accept it. Unfortunately, it went above your head, so you are trying to settle scores, six months after the post, and almost 5 months after the CT is overs ...... this is all after I had given you enough in this thread -

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...r-upcoming-ACC-Youth-U19-Asia-Cup-in-Malaysia

 

[DRsohail]

I don't think there was any criticism for Arthur or Sarfraz - they were actually praised for sending back Umar and changing starting XI at first failure.

Initial squad was poor, not only poor it was horrible. It took a grand beating in 1st match and couple of injury/sent back that improved the squad. On top of that, couple of starters had to be dropped and couple of young players raised their game. In a regular team, you don't get points for selecting 15/16 players - 10-12 are automatic choices regardless of who is selector, it's that 3/4 players that makes the difference. You can give credit not to drop Babar, Amir, Hasan if you wish; but truth is that without injury, intervention from Arthur and a big loss to IND at first match, PAK starting XI could have Wahab, Ahmed and even unfit Umar in playing XI.

yes agreed.if it was not wahab injury and Micky decision to send back umar akmal plus first match againt india.inzi would have been coaching afghanistn or any other team or wold have been with tableghi jumat right now,.

 

[mak36]

That 4.5 came out of an explanation as well, for those who can read and understand, did accept it. Unfortunately, it went above your head, so you are trying to settle scores, six months after the post, and almost 5 months after the CT is overs ...... this is all after I had given you enough in this thread -

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...r-upcoming-ACC-Youth-U19-Asia-Cup-in-Malaysia

Yes, your explanation was:

Umar Akmal was a good selection
Azhar Ali was a bad selection
Fahim Ashraf was a bad selection
Junaid Khan was a bad selection

We saw how that worked out. Humility is about accepting one's mistakes and moving on. We are all fallible, it is how we respond that counts. It doesn't matter it is 6 months down the line. If anything after the event is the best time to check again. It lets people have perspective and see who was talking sense and who was not. If you had been right you would have been going on about it for the next 10 years. As it is, you were wrong and you should accept that.

 

[mak36]

As for the other thread, given you have brought it up in your post I will say this: posters will see that you were trying to hide behind your words and when I tried to hold you to account you proceeded to throw insults. When I realised you weren't willing to have a discussion, I did the mature thing and ended the conversation. This bruised your ego and so you posted some insults to which I chose not to respond as I have better things to do than get angry with people on the internet.

There are many posters I disagree with but I have the utmost respect for them as they stand by their principles and actually engage in discussion/argument rather than resorting to insults. Unfortunately you haven't shown a capability to do that, and instead you change your opinion to suit the weather.

Posters can decide for themselves who was mature and who was not.

 

[Bilal7]

True posters would have stripped Ul Haq & Co., had Perera not dropped a dolly, but you know ....

Yes, but since it did not happen, the people getting "stripped" are Ul Haq's most vocal critics.

Who'd have thunk it, eh? A selector who is being paid big money to lend his expertise turna out to be better at his job than the hundreds of fantasy selectors who think cricket is all about spreadsheets.

Sad thing is, some still haven't learned their lesson and/or have no self-respect and continue unfairly bashing Chief Aloo.

 

[MMHS]

As for the other thread, given you have brought it up in your post I will say this: posters will see that you were trying to hide behind your words and when I tried to hold you to account you proceeded to throw insults. When I realised you weren't willing to have a discussion, I did the mature thing and ended the conversation. This bruised your ego and so you posted some insults to which I chose not to respond as I have better things to do than get angry with people on the internet.

There are many posters I disagree with but I have the utmost respect for them as they stand by their principles and actually engage in discussion/argument rather than resorting to insults. Unfortunately you haven't shown a capability to do that, and instead you change your opinion to suit the weather.

Posters can decide for themselves who was mature and who was not.

So true, isi liye to hi maine uuo link post kiya na bhai, ta ke is goolmaal may daga fed na ho jaye - I have enough confidence on the reading ability of PP posters, much better than you rate my reading capability

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

I didnt like the squad as it had some pathetic selections like Ahmed, Wahab and some poor selections like Azhar, Hafeez. Plus the non selection of Haris Sohail. Was quite angry when he was left out even after performing in Pak cup. Thankfully Haris was soon inducted in the squad which eventually led to his selection in tests.

I admit I was wrong about Azhar, he did well as an opener in those conditions and I would even play him in NZ now if we don't find someone like Sharjeel. Still think Hafeez isn't a good selection even though he made a 50 in final. Pakistan would have won CT with or without Hafeez.

Faheem was an impressive selection. Rest were kind of automatic picks.

 

[MMHS]

Yes, but since it did not happen, the people getting "stripped" are Ul Haq's most vocal critics.

Who'd have thunk it, eh? A selector who is being paid big money to lend his expertise turna out to be better at his job than the hundreds of fantasy selectors who think cricket is all about spreadsheets.

Sad thing is, some still haven't learned their lesson and/or have no self-respect and continue unfairly bashing Chief Aloo.

I don't think anyone is bashing Ul Haq - and main reason is that he has succeed some of the most incompetent people in that job. What I have read here is that everyone, almost everyone (apart from few whose favorite players were not picked) has agreed that Ul Haq has done much, much better than Rashid, Qasim or Illius. And, despite all his criticism, posters do appreciate Mohsin Khan as CS - so, they are not that dumb.

This post is related to CT Squad and that was a poor selection, you may disagree because PAK ended up winning the tournament. That's credit to the players, but you can't praise a selection, which had 3/4 changes by 2nd match of the tournament and one player instrumental in win wasn't even part of the initial squad. As I said, 10-12 players are automatic choices - put a kid, still he'll pick them - it's the last 3-5 players that makes the judgement. For example, PAK beat SRL 3-0 and 5-0 - but be honest with you and ask yourself - was it right to select Imad & Nawaz in same T20 squad, or was it right to send Imam as ODI opener, though he scored probably 150 in 3 innings. Now, you can say Nawaz-Imad-Imam is just one out of 15; but that's indicative - you can't give CS credit that he didn't drop Hasan Ali.....

Before CT, they dropped MoHa for WI ODI, and picked a 35 years old man with no future, then didn't play him at all and slotted Fakhar at 5/6 for Kamran - finally MoHa, Azhar, Umar was called back for CT, and Fakhar got benched - if you still can't read between lines, we should stop discussing here and join main stream of trolling.

 

[MMHS]

Yes, your explanation was:

Umar Akmal was a good selection
Azhar Ali was a bad selection
Fahim Ashraf was a bad selection
Junaid Khan was a bad selection

We saw how that worked out. Humility is about accepting one's mistakes and moving on. We are all fallible, it is how we respond that counts. It doesn't matter it is 6 months down the line. If anything after the event is the best time to check again. It lets people have perspective and see who was talking sense and who was not. If you had been right you would have been going on about it for the next 10 years. As it is, you were wrong and you should accept that.

As usual, read again then -

4.5 out of 10 for the squad from me.

Based on recent performance (both domestic Cup, PSL & WI) - 8 spots were already confirmed -
Sarfraz, Babar, Amir, Malik, MoHa, Imad, Shadab, Hasan. So, it was about 7 spots & combination.

For CT in UK - I would have added following 7 - Haris, Amin, Umar, Sohail, Yamin, Fakhar & a new ball pacer.

Among those 7, Inzi picked JK as the new ball pacer, which is question mark - JK had a horrible PAK Cup, besides, he might get into trouble in ICC event; Umar & Fakhar are there - while he didn't drop any of the 8 I thought to be automatic choices. So, in total 10 picks are OK with me.

I am not sure, how these 5 makes more sense -

Amin : Azhar Ali
Haris : Shehzad
Sohail : Wahab
Yamin : Fahim
*** : JK

So, he loses 4.5 points from perfect 10. Another half, for bringing back Azhar Ali, who 'll force Fakhar out of the starting XI & he didn't pick a single lefti, which makes a top 6 of right hander - loses another half.

So, 4.5; which to me is D (passed, because he didn't drop any performing player - just recycled with known failures, for the open spots.)


Not then, if he passes fitness Umar Akmal will be 1st pick even now and Azhar Ali shouldn't be in ODI team ahead of Amin, while Fahim has moved a head now, not when he was selected. In fact, this is one surprise for me, because I was probably only among few to call out Fahim first, not for his bowling rather his left-handed hitting ability.

Any way, it's great to visit some old threads, if it's done with proper spirit - keep it that way, it'll be appreciated. Otherwise, I'll have to post links again ......

 

[GreenShirts]

Who could have imagined then that this was a Champion squad!?

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

something tells me, the legend of 2017 champions trophy will only continue to grow.

 

[Hasan123]

Not many would have predicated that the squad selected was have won the CT.

 

[shaz619]

Not many would have predicated that the squad selected was have won the CT.

I think [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] did personally felt the squad was way better then 2013, and had faith we woukd reach the semis at least. Mickey Arther secretly desired and expected to win the final, he did not make such comments before the tournament or during it to take pressure of the team

 

[Hasan123]

I think [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] did personally felt the squad was way better then 2013, and had faith we woukd reach the semis at least. Mickey Arther secretly desired and expected to win the final, he did not make such comments before the tournament or during it to take pressure of the team

Squad was better than 2013 , but still didn't expect us to win the tournament.

Mickey played a big part in us winning the tournament.

 

[Ahson8]

I think [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] did personally felt the squad was way better then 2013, and had faith we woukd reach the semis at least. Mickey Arther secretly desired and expected to win the final, he did not make such comments before the tournament or during it to take pressure of the team

Squad was better than 2013 , but still didn't expect us to win the tournament.

Mickey played a big part in us winning the tournament.

The 2013 squad was downright one of the worst squads we have sent to a tournament.

It had Imran Farhat, Asad Shafiq, Kamran Akmal, Umar Amin, a Shoaib Malik who was in terrible form and a Nasir Jamshed who teams had found out.

 

[Bilal7]

I don't think anyone is bashing Ul Haq - and main reason is that he has succeed some of the most incompetent people in that job. What I have read here is that everyone, almost everyone (apart from few whose favorite players were not picked) has agreed that Ul Haq has done much, much better than Rashid, Qasim or Illius. And, despite all his criticism, posters do appreciate Mohsin Khan as CS - so, they are not that dumb.

This post is related to CT Squad and that was a poor selection, you may disagree because PAK ended up winning the tournament. That's credit to the players, but you can't praise a selection, which had 3/4 changes by 2nd match of the tournament and one player instrumental in win wasn't even part of the initial squad. As I said, 10-12 players are automatic choices - put a kid, still he'll pick them - it's the last 3-5 players that makes the judgement. For example, PAK beat SRL 3-0 and 5-0 - but be honest with you and ask yourself - was it right to select Imad & Nawaz in same T20 squad, or was it right to send Imam as ODI opener, though he scored probably 150 in 3 innings. Now, you can say Nawaz-Imad-Imam is just one out of 15; but that's indicative - you can't give CS credit that he didn't drop Hasan Ali.....

Before CT, they dropped MoHa for WI ODI, and picked a 35 years old man with no future, then didn't play him at all and slotted Fakhar at 5/6 for Kamran - finally MoHa, Azhar, Umar was called back for CT, and Fakhar got benched - if you still can't read between lines, we should stop discussing here and join main stream of trolling.

People definitely were bashing Inzi when he was selected as the CS and it reached its peak after the CT squad was announced. Some wanted him sacked.

You definitely can praise the selection because the right players were selected. Junaid Khan was not an automatic selection but he was brought in. You criticize Hafeez but his innings in the final was brilliant, ditto Azhar Ali. We were not winning that CT if not for Inzi giving the right players the opportunity to compete in that tournament.

Imad is the #1 ranked T20 bowler in the world, or at least he was until very recently. Nawaz is his back-up and discarding a promising, young player without giving him an opportunity is completely wrong and I am happy that Inzi does not select young players simply so they can carry the drinks. What is wrong with Imam? He's very young and has done a great job in the three chances he has received, why would you criticize him when he has not put a foot wrong?

Kamran Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad were brought back because they were having a brilliant run at the domestic level. Isn't that what everyone wants? Selection based on merit? Or is that not the case for players that we personally do not admire?

 

[Bilal7]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION], the CS has more insight about the players than me or you ever will. Something as simple as Junaid doing better in the nets and Azhar timing it well can be enough to convince the selector to bring them back. To you and I, it might seem foolish to select players that apparently are out of form, based on their domestic performances, but you and I do not have the full picture to make a judgement. The CS does and he should be applauded for making the right decisions.

Azhar, Fakhar, Faheem, Junaid, Hafeez and Imad, the so-called blunders of Inzamam have been some of the biggest contributors to our success.

 

[Syed1]

PP experts being shown their place on this thread )


To all experts:

 

[Abdullah719]

PP experts being shown their place on this thread )


To all experts:

Where is your signature

 

[Syed1]

Where is your signature

It doesn't show when I post from phone

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]

I do agree with your post partially, but there is another half of it. Obviously, when we talk about a new player, not only CS, people who has seen a player live should know much better that people banking on match reports and domestic stats. But, the other half of recycling players - players whom had been seen by all for years in different situations - we have to judge a selection merit on their past as well.

You are trying to justify the selection considering that the team won the tournament (right kind of players chosen), which actually isn't the fact - Joginder Sharma didn't make Indian team after that WC, for his one over. For each of the players you mentioned actually can be seen other way also - Hafeez killed a dead snake coming at 249/3, in a match his team won by 180 runs - before that, he was a passenger in CT; Imad's selection in ODI for his T20 heroics, that too in a tournament in UK, Azhar Ali's batting against IND, SAF, SRL & ENG prior to that final (which again was at best an average innings, covered by Fakhar's heroics), Ahmed's single outing - doesn't indicate that right players were selected for the right format. Good fortune that Wahab got injured in first match (no disrespect intended), otherwise one more name would have been added. Junaid was always a question mark - a full fit JK has a high ceiling, but at the same time his low is horrible - I myself wasn't sure where to put him, because in UK he is capable of what he did in CT, but other way is true as well.

Also, you are contradicting with your own logic - one side you are telling that CS has the eye to see the players, then telling that Ahmed & Kamran were picked for their domestic stats - their final out put suggests neither the stats, nor the eye of CS was indicative or correct - on top of that Akmal bros fitness tells that CS completely overlooked that part of the game. And, this is not for these 2 guys only - we can start from Zulfi Babar in UK Test Series, half fit Irfan for ODI, Asif Zakir, Gul.....

Coming to your 2nd post, I do agree that it's not possible to judge a new player only from stats, but that's not true for existing players. If you read carefully my initial post - I did gave him a pass, because he didn't drop any deserving player or players who either are performing or at least best available. If I take that CS (not only Ul Haq, I include every CS of every country) has the better picture and all-round view, then we probably never should discuss any squad or formation - and you have to agree that Shan Masood & Wahab are the best 2 possible choices for Test & ODI, because of that all-round view.................. and I'll also accept that dropping Mominul for Imrul Kayes was also on merit, because Akram indeed have seen both for long time.

 

[Bilal7]

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]

I do agree with your post partially, but there is another half of it. Obviously, when we talk about a new player, not only CS, people who has seen a player live should know much better that people banking on match reports and domestic stats. But, the other half of recycling players - players whom had been seen by all for years in different situations - we have to judge a selection merit on their past as well.

You are trying to justify the selection considering that the team won the tournament (right kind of players chosen), which actually isn't the fact - Joginder Sharma didn't make Indian team after that WC, for his one over. For each of the players you mentioned actually can be seen other way also - Hafeez killed a dead snake coming at 249/3, in a match his team won by 180 runs - before that, he was a passenger in CT; Imad's selection in ODI for his T20 heroics, that too in a tournament in UK, Azhar Ali's batting against IND, SAF, SRL & ENG prior to that final (which again was at best an average innings, covered by Fakhar's heroics), Ahmed's single outing - doesn't indicate that right players were selected for the right format. Good fortune that Wahab got injured in first match (no disrespect intended), otherwise one more name would have been added. Junaid was always a question mark - a full fit JK has a high ceiling, but at the same time his low is horrible - I myself wasn't sure where to put him, because in UK he is capable of what he did in CT, but other way is true as well.

Also, you are contradicting with your own logic - one side you are telling that CS has the eye to see the players, then telling that Ahmed & Kamran were picked for their domestic stats - their final out put suggests neither the stats, nor the eye of CS was indicative or correct - on top of that Akmal bros fitness tells that CS completely overlooked that part of the game. And, this is not for these 2 guys only - we can start from Zulfi Babar in UK Test Series, half fit Irfan for ODI, Asif Zakir, Gul.....

Coming to your 2nd post, I do agree that it's not possible to judge a new player only from stats, but that's not true for existing players. If you read carefully my initial post - I did gave him a pass, because he didn't drop any deserving player or players who either are performing or at least best available. If I take that CS (not only Ul Haq, I include every CS of every country) has the better picture and all-round view, then we probably never should discuss any squad or formation - and you have to agree that Shan Masood & Wahab are the best 2 possible choices for Test & ODI, because of that all-round view.................. and I'll also accept that dropping Mominul for Imrul Kayes was also on merit, because Akram indeed have seen both for long time.

Good post. At the end of the day, we can all have our opinions but some people go overboard and start thinking that the CS is simply there to collect a pay-check and everyone but their own genius self is an idiot when it comes to selecting a cricket team. This is why we had people demanding that Inzi be fired among other things.

Players are picked on a combination of their stats and form. Kamran and Shehzad had both the stats and form when they were picked but they failed and I don't see how you can blame the CS for their failures. The important thing is that he selected them on merit and gave them a fair chance. Ditto with Shan Masood, who perhaps was given a longer rope than he deserved but better to give a player too many chances than too few.

Hafeez has been performing quite well, at least with the ball and he is partly why we have not let any team concede over 250 in our last ten ODIs. He cannot be dropped when he is performing. Same goes for Azhar Ali, who is red-hot in tests and has not done anything wrong in ODIs, although he has not done anything spectacular either. Junaid was a master-stroke by Inzi because he had neither the form nor stats but ended up proving Inzi right and everyone else wrong.

Akmal's fitness issue is confusing but it is true that the selectors and team management should be on the same page when it comes to the fitness of the players.