What's new

Chaos, in-fighting and brilliance versus good behaviour, solidarity and steadiness

Saj

PakPassion Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 1, 2001
Runs
96,141
The Saleem Malik comments made me think about which version of Pakistani cricket we prefer.

The unpredictable, volatile, spectacular and at times brilliant teams which starred Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib Akhtar, Shahid Afridi and co. the teams that could bowl out any opposition in the matter of overs or on another day look disinterested and dived.

Or the steady, united and well-behaved teams that we saw with Misbah-ul-Haq at the helm. The teams who played a predictable brand of cricket, but were at times rather dull to watch.
 
It seems we had the best balance in the 80s under Imran which featured both volatile geniuses like Javed Miandad, Sarfraz Nawaz and Abdul Qadir - and steady eddies like Mudassar Nazar and Shoaib Mohammad.

For a brief period under Inzamam and Woolmer, we successfully combined flair with a grittier side.

Currently we're far too nice a team. It was embarrassing seeing our guys gawking at the Australians in the Tests like starstruck teens.
 
It seems we had the best balance in the 80s under Imran which featured both volatile geniuses like Javed Miandad, Sarfraz Nawaz and Abdul Qadir - and steady eddies like Mudassar Nazar and Shoaib Mohammad.

For a brief period under Inzamam and Woolmer, we successfully combined flair with a grittier side.

Currently we're far too nice a team. It was embarrassing seeing our guys gawking at the Australians in the Tests like starstruck teens.

With Woolmer, the tide had started to turn in favour of a proper management structure instead of a free for all
 
its not one or the other, theres a lack of professionalism running through out pakistan cricket, and the flamboyance, or brilliance you refer to is simply an excuse to not address the elephant in the room.

once a player gets big enough they are bigger than the institution, which is wrong, and is a result of pakistani social structures, which are generally buiilt on "tribal" kinships and patronage of an individual.
 
I believe cricket in general has changed. It has become more objective.

Chaos, in-fighting, emotional nonsense etc. are things of the past.

I think current brand of Pakistan team is better because you have a much more positive environment.
 
Obviously it would be good to have a balance, but given the choice Volatile and spectacular for me.

The slow and steady approach has gone too far the other way and it almost seems like they don’t really care. Just going through the motions
 
Which is very rare in Pakistani cricketing circles.

Education, ethics and culture has a lot of say in this.

Brilliance may be inherent or acquired but the resultant drive to work harder and maintaining it is an altogether different thing. Once a person starts delivering brilliance, his state of mind can change rapidly. And once that brilliance goes missing and someone else takes his place, jealousy and infighting comes into play.
 
I can't digest another spot fixing scandal or a sydney test.

With good behavior, solidarity and steadiness, brilliance will come with time as long as selections are based on merit and there is a good molding system.
 
I can't digest another spot fixing scandal or a sydney test.

With good behavior, solidarity and steadiness, brilliance will come with time as long as selections are based on merit and there is a good molding system.

I really don't think we will see the sorts of fixing scandals we saw in 2010 at the international level again. Also now PCB much more hands on with the side, appointing people who listen to them so player power has diminished somewhat
 
I can't digest another spot fixing scandal or a sydney test.

With good behavior, solidarity and steadiness, brilliance will come with time as long as selections are based on merit and there is a good molding system.

Spot fixing scandal started the Misbah era. Things have been quite stable since 2010.

It was like how WWE went PG after Chris Benoit's death.
 
Current Pakistan team is indeed one of the dullest teams in world cricket.

Their approach vs Australia and indeed all other teams is conservative, safety first.

They never take the aggressive option, never go for the jugular in 50-50 situations and if things go against them, sit back and wait for magic moments.

On top of that, I find this bro love in the team at times extremely cringe.

Yet, I just can't imagine going back to the infighting, match fixing, personality worshipping cults of the 90s and 000's.

So here is the situation: the Pakistani fan's lot is between the devil and the deep blue sea. Two bad options.
 
Chaos and in fighting was always box office and kept fans guessing, not always for the right outcomes.

But i think the older i amgetting the more i long for a bit more consistency and stability,long term its alwaysthe better option in my opinion.
 
Current Pakistan team is indeed one of the dullest teams in world cricket.

No doubt.

And it's not very often we have said that about Pakistani teams in any format.

There have always been flair players, big egos with anything possible.

These days it's discipline but very little flair.
 
If you want the Pakistani team to have the chaos and crazy attitude, than that should be done against the opposition. Not against your own team members.

A very good example was Javed Miandad. Miandad was not someone that was involved in infighting with his own team mates but rather would dish it out against the opposition. He got overshadowed due to Imran Khan, but Miandad was a batsmen with an Australian attitude that Pakistan had.

The chaotic attitude that our other players ended up devolping was more of internal fighting that destroyed our team in the long run.

I havent wacthed 90s cricket but i have read biographies and articles, and one thing is common in all those texts. Waseem Akram, as captain, created a toxic atmosphere.

If your captain or even senior player creates an atmosphere where there is an aura of the senior player, to whom you cannot approach or talk to, than groupings will develop within the team naturally and the young players also end up learning from these guys.

The junior or new coming players were never mentored or guided, it was free for all where you had to survive.

Why Muhammad Yousuf's career ended short? Because he saw how his seniors only played internstional cricket and did not give a rats behind to domestic cricket and he copied them. He also kept that attitude of senior player, senior player should get selected irrespect of playing domestic cricket.

The chaos or the anger the team displayed wasnt against the opposition but was mostly spread in the team and was just players fighting among themselves and looking like idiots world wide. Either they were fighting for the captaincy, or they were fighting the chairman.

What lead to Pakiatan team become the well behave version it is today are the following things.

Shoaib Akhtar
Misbah
Social media
Lack of confidence (small city players)

Shoaib akhtar now adays pretends to act as a patriot who never did wrong, but the guy was crazy. He was a ticking time bomb. Hitting a team mate with a bat, performance enhancing drug charges, taking on Dr. Naseem Ashraf, fighting with Bob Woolmer.

Pcb had to deal with Akhtar, and they were not gonna let another Akhtar be made hence i would assume they bought strict discipline in the under 19 where any player showing dissent or ajything was thrown out of the team.

What Misbah did than was the reverse of whatWaseem Akram did. Misbah as a captain was approachable. As a captain, he took insults for the sake of the team. If some player insulted Misbah he did not respond back and people take this as him being tame or creating a team that was tame.
Misbah did not make the team tame, his players in the dressing room respected him. Even under him, if Pakistan posted a score of 250 ish, under Misbah it was defendable as he knew how to use his bowlers well.

People think Misbah made his players tame when infact that is very wrong. Misbah used to ask his bowlers to give something to the opposition. He used to ask Irfan to also give stare downs and use your mouth instead of just quietly bowling

What Misbah did was, he ended the team infighting. Once the team infighting was eradicated, we were exposed, because it should that we never made noise against the opposition but just amongst ourselves.

Us becoming tame as a player were because the other other reasons.

Social media played a big factor. Interesting to note, in western countries like North America, social media isnt used as much as we Pakistanis use. Our players know that anything they do, it gets backlash on social media alot.

Look at Shanawaz Dhani. He is a very happy go person, but many people had issues with him how he celebrated. He was even bashed by Afridi. He was bashed to a point where we saw Dhani having to stop his celebration. Meanwhile, a South African Imran Tahir continues to celebrate as he did before. The criticism he gets was again was not from his own side people but from us Pakistanis.

If there is some fight, our players quickly run to social media that oh it was just us having fun. We try to play for the gallows. Each act of the players is for social media attention now adays.

As for the players not dishing out on the opposition. Simple, lack of confidence. These guys cant speak in English, they fear looking like idiots. Plus, the social media things add up that if they do try to say something to the opposition, they might get caught on camera and look bad.
The lack of confidence is due to many of these guys coming conservative backgrounds and smaller cities.

You can insult, Rizwan, and he will just happily smile like a fool.

However, if you insult rishab pant, he will also give it back to you. Why? Because indian players have the confidence, plus, on their social media, its all about the indian nationalism, hence for them its basically if the white man insults them, they have to give it back, or else i dians will bash them.

Our captain, babar azam has zero confidence. Than many of these guys cant utter a word of english. You bring in Afghanistan against them, all of a sudden, even shaheen afridi starts dishing out some pashto insults, because thats when the language is understood.

I would prefer the disciplined team over the chaotic 90s team. However, there needs to be some confidence. You can pkay your cricket like New Zealand, but atleast as a player, stand up when an opposition says something against you or does something against you. Nz are the nice guys, but if you say something to them they will respond back and not smile like idiots.

Shadab Khan is someone who i have felt is someone who is like that. Whenever he felt the opposition did something wrong, he doesnt stand quietly but speaks up, either on the field or in the dugout. Yet, he does that in domestic cricket, lets see if he would be able to do that if was in charge in international cricket.
 
Be it 1992, 2009 or 2017 - solidarity and steadiness never won Pakistan a tournament.

It was always chaos and unpredictability that did the trick.
 
Be it 1992, 2009 or 2017 - solidarity and steadiness never won Pakistan a tournament.

It was always chaos and unpredictability that did the trick.

In 2017 there was no chaos, we were a well gelled team with no real super stars that were bigger than the team. PCB had gotten rid of trouble makers like Shehzad and Umar Akmal and had set a tone for solidarity. Credit to Misbah and Waqar for setting these foundations
 
The unpredictable but spectacular Pakistan is fun to watch. They can do things most others can’t. World cricket needs a bit of that. Though I don’t think it’s great for the individual Pakistani supporters, but it’s great for cricket.

There are enough professional teams who do what they are supposed to do and be consistent. But the fun of watching Pakistan in the 90s was losing to Zimbabwe and then nearly winning a test in SA by debutant.
 
The unpredictable but spectacular Pakistan is fun to watch. They can do things most others can’t. World cricket needs a bit of that. Though I don’t think it’s great for the individual Pakistani supporters, but it’s great for cricket.

There are enough professional teams who do what they are supposed to do and be consistent. But the fun of watching Pakistan in the 90s was losing to Zimbabwe and then nearly winning a test in SA by debutant.

Pakistan has lots of talent so individual brilliance will always be a component of our game. What we need though are stable dressing rooms without politics. This would nurture and groom our natural brilliance even more
 
The frustrating thing with the Pakistani team of the 90s and early 2000s was that there were times where the dressing room was United and played some brilliant world class cricket.

Miandad’s 1992-1993 team, England 1996 and the following winter in the Carlton and United series. Wasim Akram’s 1998-2000 stint including the World Cup, even during Waqar’s captaincy they had their moments like the Aus ODI series in 2002.

However for one reason or the other it didn’t take long for either match-fixing, groupings or ambitious captains to try and destabilise the team.

There was absolutely no reason for Miandad to be removed in 1993 with a very green and immature wasim Akram taking over for no valid reason at all. That led to 3 years of infighting and match fixing allegations to completely destroy a team so talented they beat an ATG Aus team in 1994. Probably the most toxic time of the 90s.

Wasim Akram’s 1998-2000 team were excellent most of the time but they were notorious match fixers in dead rubbers. They really truly believed they could pick and choose which match they wanted to win or not. They were not far off the mark but sooner or later that arrogance would backfire like it did in the WC Final culminating in the hearbreaking Hobart test loss. A very even test series up to the final day of the second test turned in to a 3-0 whitewash as they were too demoralised to even compete in the final test.

What was also criminal was what happened after the 2002 ODI series in Australia. Waqar was a poor captain but with a United team they had enough matchwinners to compete vs anyone. That series opened a few eyes and Wasim believed that this team had a lot going for it and if it fired could realistically win the World Cup the next year and he could take the glory if he became captain. It started a chain of events and groupings that led to ultimate failure in the World Cup. Very very toxic and it wasn’t until just before the World Cup where everyone accepted Waqar would be captain. By that time it was too late. Too much damage done.

Sad state of affairs. It was a crazy time to be a Pakistan fan. But in those days I would never miss a match.

Nowadays especially and even in Inzi’s era I can very happily skip some pak matches.
 
The frustrating thing with the Pakistani team of the 90s and early 2000s was that there were times where the dressing room was United and played some brilliant world class cricket.

Miandad’s 1992-1993 team, England 1996 and the following winter in the Carlton and United series. Wasim Akram’s 1998-2000 stint including the World Cup, even during Waqar’s captaincy they had their moments like the Aus ODI series in 2002.

However for one reason or the other it didn’t take long for either match-fixing, groupings or ambitious captains to try and destabilise the team.

There was absolutely no reason for Miandad to be removed in 1993 with a very green and immature wasim Akram taking over for no valid reason at all. That led to 3 years of infighting and match fixing allegations to completely destroy a team so talented they beat an ATG Aus team in 1994. Probably the most toxic time of the 90s.

Wasim Akram’s 1998-2000 team were excellent most of the time but they were notorious match fixers in dead rubbers. They really truly believed they could pick and choose which match they wanted to win or not. They were not far off the mark but sooner or later that arrogance would backfire like it did in the WC Final culminating in the hearbreaking Hobart test loss. A very even test series up to the final day of the second test turned in to a 3-0 whitewash as they were too demoralised to even compete in the final test.

What was also criminal was what happened after the 2002 ODI series in Australia. Waqar was a poor captain but with a United team they had enough matchwinners to compete vs anyone. That series opened a few eyes and Wasim believed that this team had a lot going for it and if it fired could realistically win the World Cup the next year and he could take the glory if he became captain. It started a chain of events and groupings that led to ultimate failure in the World Cup. Very very toxic and it wasn’t until just before the World Cup where everyone accepted Waqar would be captain. By that time it was too late. Too much damage done.

Sad state of affairs. It was a crazy time to be a Pakistan fan. But in those days I would never miss a match.

Nowadays especially and even in Inzi’s era I can very happily skip some pak matches.

The 2002-03 team was an aging team, a lot of players were way past it i.e. Wasim, Waqar, Saeed Anwar, Saqlain and these players were shown up against the big teams at the time i.e. Australia, South Africa, England and India.
 
The frustrating thing with the Pakistani team of the 90s and early 2000s was that there were times where the dressing room was United and played some brilliant world class cricket.

Miandad’s 1992-1993 team, England 1996 and the following winter in the Carlton and United series. Wasim Akram’s 1998-2000 stint including the World Cup, even during Waqar’s captaincy they had their moments like the Aus ODI series in 2002.

However for one reason or the other it didn’t take long for either match-fixing, groupings or ambitious captains to try and destabilise the team.

There was absolutely no reason for Miandad to be removed in 1993 with a very green and immature wasim Akram taking over for no valid reason at all. That led to 3 years of infighting and match fixing allegations to completely destroy a team so talented they beat an ATG Aus team in 1994. Probably the most toxic time of the 90s.

Wasim Akram’s 1998-2000 team were excellent most of the time but they were notorious match fixers in dead rubbers. They really truly believed they could pick and choose which match they wanted to win or not. They were not far off the mark but sooner or later that arrogance would backfire like it did in the WC Final culminating in the hearbreaking Hobart test loss. A very even test series up to the final day of the second test turned in to a 3-0 whitewash as they were too demoralised to even compete in the final test.

What was also criminal was what happened after the 2002 ODI series in Australia. Waqar was a poor captain but with a United team they had enough matchwinners to compete vs anyone. That series opened a few eyes and Wasim believed that this team had a lot going for it and if it fired could realistically win the World Cup the next year and he could take the glory if he became captain. It started a chain of events and groupings that led to ultimate failure in the World Cup. Very very toxic and it wasn’t until just before the World Cup where everyone accepted Waqar would be captain. By that time it was too late. Too much damage done.

Sad state of affairs. It was a crazy time to be a Pakistan fan. But in those days I would never miss a match.

Nowadays especially and even in Inzi’s era I can very happily skip some pak matches.

What happened in 1993 to Miandad was wrong. However for all his tactical astuteness, Miandad's interpersonal skills were awful as we've seen over the years as a coach, administrator and pundit. He fell out with as many people as the number of runs he scored !

The team also mutinied under him in 1982, even the players not inclined to intrigues and politics.

One mutiny is bad luck, but two means there must be something wrong with you.
 
The 2002-03 team was an aging team, a lot of players were way past it i.e. Wasim, Waqar, Saeed Anwar, Saqlain and these players were shown up against the big teams at the time i.e. Australia, South Africa, England and India.

It was an ageing team no doubt, but that victory in 2002 in Australia gave them a false sense of hoping they could produce something in the World Cup which started the race for captaincy.

We wouldn’t have won the 2003 World Cup however, a first round KO wasn’t on the cards. There were still some players at their peak like shoaib, Inzi and afridi/razzak although not great certainly weren’t past it.

No one could have predicted Inzi would be such a dud and shoaib a bit off colour.

Ageing teams can sometimes produce one last big performance.
 
What happened in 1993 to Miandad was wrong. However for all his tactical astuteness, Miandad's interpersonal skills were awful as we've seen over the years as a coach, administrator and pundit. He fell out with as many people as the number of runs he scored !

The team also mutinied under him in 1982, even the players not inclined to intrigues and politics.

One mutiny is bad luck, but two means there must be something wrong with you.

Not exactly, they were two completely different situations. A young Miandad wasn’t accepted by some of the big egos like Majid Khan, Zaheer, Imran and co.

1993 they should have serenely transferred power in 1994 to salim malik. But to make Akram captain in 1993 when Miandad’s team hadn’t put a foot wrong in tests was completely wrong.

Miandad was Miandad and no doubt had his shortcomings but he swallowed his ego for a whole decade under imran and he really looked after that 92 team fighting not with them but for them - example 1992 test series, he took on the media and even an umpire for good measure!
 
We can say that there were some great times when Wasim and Waqar and co were playing together in an era where Pakistan had some of the most gifted and best players in the world.

But overall, that group of players should have achieved so much more and become the number 1 Test side, but it didn't happen and sadly player in-fighting and politics had a big part to play in that. The Board was weak, player power was rife and it became a total mess.
 
Back
Top