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Chief Selector Inzamam-ul-Haq, The Revolutionary - Performance Watch

Rinnegan Sasuke said:
Maybe Bilal can get "injured"?
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I think someone can be added to the squad anyway, don't think there is anything stopping that (not 100% sure on that).

But even if that were done, it would showcase the poor initial squad picked by the selection committee.
 
Fakhar Zaman will be sent anyway for the third test. Him and Shadab are supposed to get 100% fit again at the academy.
 
The non selection of a back up middle order batsmen before SA tour was questioned and no even more so looks a stupid idea. The rushed team selection with protected team selections coming back to haunt pakistan now. Well done inzi.
 
Amjid Javed said:
The non selection of a back up middle order batsmen before SA tour was questioned and no even more so looks a stupid idea. The rushed team selection with protected team selections coming back to haunt pakistan now. Well done inzi.
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Agree, though, to put the blame back a bit on Mickey, Rizwan is also there isn't he? But perhaps it would be too much pressure on Sarfraz to play him.
 
I've supported Inzamam but his selections in the latter half of 2018 have been illogical.

- We wasted five Tests on Mohd Hafeez instead of grooming a younger batsman on more favourable UAE pitches.

- Selected six pacers in the Asia Cup in the UAE and no specialist spinners.

- Taking Imam-ul-Haq to South Africa after dismal failures in UAE.

- No backup middle order batsman taken to South Africa.

- Recalling domestic bully but proven international failure in Shan Masood in the WRONG format.

- Continuing to ignore consistent FC performers like Fawad Alam and Saud Shakeel.
 
Only backup middle-order player in the squad (Rizwan) warming bench & 4 openers are playing. It doesn't make any sense to me.
Cheap Selector's Poor squad selection, followed by poor selection of playing XI by Kaptan & Mickey.
 
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Why was he made the selector? He has ruined whatever potential this team had. So many selection errors, it's depressing.
 
Not selecting Umar Akmal was just wrong a stroke maker capable of making a quick 40-50 runs is crucial in these conditions the UAE tactics of scoring slowly won't work here.
 
New Yorker said:
Agree, though, to put the blame back a bit on Mickey, Rizwan is also there isn't he? But perhaps it would be too much pressure on Sarfraz to play him.
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Just seems like middle order slots are all "protected" so no extra batsmen was picked. Also clear that sarfraz doesnt think rizwan can do job in top 6 and also put his own place under threat.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Just seems like middle order slots are all "protected" so no extra batsmen was picked. Also clear that sarfraz doesnt think rizwan can do job in top 6 and also put his own place under threat.
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Selfish attitude. He is holding back players just to prolong his career. He has no integrity.
 
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Bracing for another rushed announcement for ODI squad by chief selector Inzamam to save his nephew. Before the start of the 3rd test or the 2nd innings of 3rd test.

He is keeping quiet as announcement for Haris replacement was expected. He'll delay the process as much as he can so that its too late for anyone to reach the team. Feels like he is running the Pakistan XI management, PCB and Ehsan Mani still on a holiday.

Social media is in flames, media now does'nt matter. Heat is on PCB chairman to explain teams performance and justification of Inzamam as cheif selector. Inzamam has been a nepotism firewall blocking domestic batsman from their entry into Pakistan team for 2 straight years. No one there to grill him for the devastation he has caused.
 
WengerOut said:
Don't get the nepotism angle. Imam has been decent. It is not like better batsmen (opener) are waiting in the wings.
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Is Imam the best performer in the domestic scene? Going by the posters here, i dont think so.

Even leaving aside that, dude was flunking on dead UAE pitches and was included for the SA series.
 
TM Riddle said:
Don't have much knowledge on that.
Maybe [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] or [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] could answer.
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As I have stated numerous times, Imam is not worse than our other options and he is not keeping some legend out of the team. People are at his throat because of nepotism, but I don’t care about nepotism when no one is good enough.

There is a genuine talent crisis in Pakistan and Imam along with most other players is benefiting from that crisis.
 
Selected Mir Hamza for UAE series, dropped for England and SA series, where he would've been more useful.
Constantly selecting and dropping Saad Ali who had a stellar season and was miles ahead of any other player.
And this guy talks about "giving chances" and "persisting with players"
Didn't give proper chances to Yamin and Amin too.
 
Media's focus shifting from Sarfraz to Inzamam after reaction on social media. PCB and Ehsan Mani can't stay on the fence regarding their chief selector.

Removing Inzamam without any investigation, will be a huge blessing for this bloke. Inzi needs to explain he has played with many careers in domestic system. Players like Fawad Alam, Abid Ali, Asif Zakir, Saad Ali.

Parliamentary forum needs to ask him why he selected players and then deselected them minus Haris Sohail? Why the team management did'nt trust his reserve selections and kept on playing duds like Shafiq and Azhar who are limited players and bottle in pressure situations? In his 2 years Inzamam failed to build the test, odi, t20 team he is continuing to back Hafeez, Malik and Azam in all 3 formats.

He used his influence to get his nephew into the team. Imam's average is down to 27 even Khurram Manzoor had a higher average when he was dropped.
 
Mamoon said:
As I have stated numerous times, Imam is not worse than our other options and he is not keeping some legend out of the team. People are at his throat because of nepotism, but I don’t care about nepotism when no one is good enough.

There is a genuine talent crisis in Pakistan and Imam along with most other players is benefiting from that crisis.
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I don’t like when you are wrong but still blindly defend it. Imam was always a nepotisic selection. Nobody knew about him before Inzi becoming chief selector. Not many u19 get to play across all formats especially mediocre players like him. Give me some example. He was nothing special even in domestic yet he got royal treatment like he is the find of the century.
 
WengerOut said:
Don't get the nepotism angle. Imam has been decent. It is not like better batsmen (opener) are waiting in the wings.
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You have been out of loop if you think it's not a nepotisic selection. Nobody in the selection panel was interested in his selection but only to please inzi they didn't complain why he is in the list and why not Sami Aslam or Saad ali or Abid Ali.
 
Mamoon said:
There is a genuine talent crisis in Pakistan and Imam along with most other players is benefiting from that crisis.
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People posting here are not fools that don't know about the domestic setup or the basic technique of players, how a club level neanderthal Imam got in the side.
If there is talent crisis then why Shan is outperforming than the senior leeches in the team? Why PAkistan A made up of domestic players extracted better result than Pakistan national XI againstalmost same New Zealand A team.

Even if there is such a talent crisis stil this does'nt justify these players. Even still Fawad Alam has better average than all of this garbage to get back into the sidewho has played intl. test cricket. They play selfishly and for themselves than for the team. The collapses for the past one year are reason enough to start disciplinary proceedings. There commitment as well as approach is controversial and shameful professionally.
 
Yes, the batting was thin especially the middle order.

But is it Inzi's fault that Mickey/Saifi did not play Shadab, Faheem? Both not being there probably the difference.
 
Inzis got worse and worse as a selector as times gone on and deserves the chop.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
Yes, the batting was thin especially the middle order.

But is it Inzi's fault that Mickey/Saifi did not play Shadab, Faheem? Both not being there probably the difference.
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Shadab and Faheem are middle order batsmen???

Squad is not coach domain. Why Inzamam removed middle order reserves from the previous tour like Saad Ali and Usman? Lot of answering to explain.
 
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People here are adamant that there is no dearth of batting talent and still advocating Faheem and shadab as batting reinforcements when they are are not specialist in either aspect. Quite contradicting
 
No replacement for Haris has been announced, meaning he wants imam to be in the 11.

Hopefully, the management will replace him with Rizwan and give Zaman another chance at 6.

Azhar back to opening and if they don't want to give Zaman another chance, then Faheem in for imam and Rizwan in for Zaman.

Either way, no more opportunities for imam!
 
Khwaja78 said:
Shadab and Faheem are middle order batsmen???

Squad is not coach domain. Why Inzamam removed middle order reserves from the previous tour like Saad Ali and Usman? Lot of answering to explain.
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True, but it doesn't eplain why Shadab wasn't played instead of Yasir and why Faheem wasn't used as fourth pacer. Shadab at 7 and Faheem at 8 would have strengthened our batting as that has been the issue. instead of 170 we could have ended with scores of 250 + more often as [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] explains.

Saadi Ali wouldn't have played anyway as they trust Asad to do well and Rizwan is there for Sarfraz. Yes Inzi's selection was poor but it isn't the main reason for Pak's failure.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
True, but it doesn't eplain why Shadab wasn't played instead of Yasir and why Faheem wasn't used as fourth pacer. Shadab at 7 and Faheem at 8 would have strengthened our batting as that has been the issue. instead of 170 we could have ended with scores of 250 + more often as [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] explains.

Saadi Ali wouldn't have played anyway as they trust Asad to do well and Rizwan is there for Sarfraz. Yes Inzi's selection was poor but it isn't the main reason for Pak's failure.
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Bro, on this wicket why need a spinner at all rofl? Even Shadab would'nt have done much and he was replacing the best Test bowler for Pak which means increased criticism. They dropped Hasan Ali for Amir, Faheem playing is out of the question.

Inzi is part of this mafia and his selection is not poor, its sinister.

If Saad Ali and Usman continued to remain with the squad then definitely team management would be exposed, but they are all involved protecting each other. He selected Rizwan who everyone knew would never get a game. Proper investigation is required on these folks the situation has gone out of control for the past year.

PCB and old man Ehsan Mani have left the team completely to this mafia made up of selectors and senior players.
 
Khwaja78 said:
Bro, on this wicket why need a spinner at all rofl? Even Shadab would'nt have done much and he was replacing the best Test bowler for Pak which means increased criticism. They dropped Hasan Ali for Amir, Faheem playing is out of the question.

Inzi is part of this mafia and his selection is not poor, its sinister.

If Saad Ali and Usman continued to remain with the squad then definitely team management would be exposed, but they are all involved protecting each other. He selected Rizwan who everyone knew would never get a game. Proper investigation is required on these folks the situation has gone out of control for the past year.

PCB and old man Ehsan Mani have left the team completely to this mafia made up of selectors and senior players.
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So it's Inzi's fault that Mickey and co kept playing Yasir instead of Faheem or Hasan? He made calls to Micky?

It's poor selection but we got to be realistic. The team management did not make full use of the squad sent. Things could have ended better for Pak if they opted for for example Hasan instead of Yasir just like you said. Unless Inzi made them select Yasir with a phone call?

And yea I agree with the other posters that a replacement should have been sent for Haris + Abid Ali.
 
Mamoon said:
As I have stated numerous times, Imam is not worse than our other options and he is not keeping some legend out of the team. People are at his throat because of nepotism, but I don’t care about nepotism when no one is good enough.

There is a genuine talent crisis in Pakistan and Imam along with most other players is benefiting from that crisis.
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I'm with you on this, and thing he should play tests only.
However some opener somewhere was keeping shaan out.
So it's too oversimplistic to say there is nobody else.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
So it's Inzi's fault that Mickey and co kept playing Yasir instead of Faheem or Hasan? He made calls to Micky?

It's poor selection but we got to be realistic. The team management did not make full use of the squad sent. Things could have ended better for Pak if they opted for for example Hasan instead of Yasir just like you said. Unless Inzi made them select Yasir with a phone call?

And yea I agree with the other posters that a replacement should have been sent for Haris + Abid Ali.
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Are you really that innocent or think we are?
Hahahahah Inzamam does'nt call he actually reaches the team. This happened in last 2 tours when nephew was'nt able to score. He reached the stadium and was seen in the practice sessions.

Inzamam's antics have made Arthur even more firm and mistrusting of his selection who is there for his nephew only. Yasir played the match due to previous record of this stadium in the 4th or 5th day.

What is in the squad? Rizwan averaged 14 against New Zealand A in UAE what kind of fireworks he was suppose to unleash?

Its been 5 days of Haris injury, has there been any announcement let alone sending a replacement? Can you please look into ground reality or even review the selectors' picks of the last 2 years. How many new batsmen he has introduced?
 
Khwaja78 said:
Are you really that innocent or think we are?
Hahahahah Inzamam does'nt call he actually reaches the team. This happened in last 2 tours when nephew was'nt able to score. He reached the stadium and was seen in the practice sessions.

Inzamam's antics have made Arthur even more firm and mistrusting of his selection who is there for his nephew only. Yasir played the match due to previous record of this stadium in the 4th or 5th day.

What is in the squad? Rizwan averaged 14 against New Zealand A in UAE what kind of fireworks he was suppose to unleash?

Its been 5 days of Haris injury, has there been any announcement let alone sending a replacement? Can you please look into ground reality or even review the selectors' picks of the last 2 years. How many new batsmen he has introduced?
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How did Inzi's soul reach SA and forced the ever so stubborn Mickey to coach and select the team according to his wishes? Really?

Be realistic instead of being the incarnation of certain conspiracy champions. Yes Inzi selected poorly and might be biases but the team management made some poor choices as well. There is no way we can defend Sarfraz and Mickey after this pathetic show.

And yes a replacement of Haris should have been sent. Try to be balanced in your crucification.
 
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Prince of Pakistan said:
I guess you are the special spy hired by third parties who investigated how Inzi's soul reached SA and forced the ever so stubborn Mickey to coach and select the team according to his wishes? Really?

Be realistic instead of being the incarnation of certain conspiracy champions. Yes Inzi selected poorly and might be biases but the team management made some poor choices as well. There is no way we can defend Sarfraz and Mickey after this pathetic show.

And yes a replacement of Haris should have been sent. Try to be balanced in your crucification.
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And I guess you are lobbyist of Inzamam? Failed to tell one thing that I can hold Arthur responsible for?

Canthe coach be held responsible for players with 70+ tests like Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali? Forget about scoring they can't play 40 overs in a test match.

Did Arthur announce the test team on the 5th day of PAk v NZ before Paksitan went into bat?

Is Arthur playing his family in the team? Yes he has made major tactical blunders but the batting selections are the reason we are being defeated by every team we are playing. Can't blame him for selections. He gave chance to Usman Salahuddin and other youngsters so also can't accuse him for blocking new players. Hafeez, Malik, Imam were not selected by him.
 
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Khwaja78 said:
People posting here are not fools that don't know about the domestic setup or the basic technique of players, how a club level neanderthal Imam got in the side.
If there is talent crisis then why Shan is outperforming than the senior leeches in the team? Why PAkistan A made up of domestic players extracted better result than Pakistan national XI againstalmost same New Zealand A team.

Even if there is such a talent crisis stil this does'nt justify these players. Even still Fawad Alam has better average than all of this garbage to get back into the sidewho has played intl. test cricket. They play selfishly and for themselves than for the team. The collapses for the past one year are reason enough to start disciplinary proceedings. There commitment as well as approach is controversial and shameful professionally.
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People posting here are not fools, but they view things with green-tinted glasses and bury their heads in the sand because they don’t want to accept the reality.

They keep hyping domestic players who turn out to be duds in international cricket. The gap between our domestic cricket and international cricket is too big.

Shan Masood has proved nothing yet, and even if he does, he is just one player. Same goes for Fawad. The team is short of 5-6 world class players, since we don’t have any.

People don’t like this, but the fact is that there is no group of 11 players in the country who are good enough to make Pakistan a top two/top three team in Tests and ODIs.

As a result, I find this debate over who should be picked and who should be selected tiresome now. What does it matter when at the end of the day, they are all mediocre.
 
MRSN said:
I don’t like when you are wrong but still blindly defend it. Imam was always a nepotisic selection. Nobody knew about him before Inzi becoming chief selector. Not many u19 get to play across all formats especially mediocre players like him. Give me some example. He was nothing special even in domestic yet he got royal treatment like he is the find of the century.
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I am not denying that Imam has been selected due to nepotism. However, as I have stated before, it means little when there are hardly any world class openers that have been blocked due to his nepotistic selection.

People were hyping up Farhan but we all saw how out of depth he was.
 
Mamoon said:
People posting here are not fools, but they view things with green-tinted glasses and bury their heads in the sand because they don’t want to accept the reality.

They keep hyping domestic players who turn out to be duds in international cricket. The gap between our domestic cricket and international cricket is too big.

Shan Masood has proved nothing yet, and even if he does, he is just one player. Same goes for Fawad. The team is short of 5-6 world class players, since we don’t have any.

People don’t like this, but the fact is that there is no group of 11 players in the country who are good enough to make Pakistan a top two/top three team in Tests and ODIs.

As a result, I find this debate over who should be picked and who should be selected tiresome now. What does it matter when at the end of the day, they are all mediocre.
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How many domestic batsman played for Pakistan in last 2 years? How many A tours planned for Pakistani second string?
How many Pakistani players meeting international teams in their own country? How many Pakistani players who've played outside UAE?

Yet Pakistani players play in every T20 league around the world. Shan Masood is one player but he is the product of the same domestic system.

Now you are calling the national team players mediocre rofl.
They are not even mediocre they are below standard they are the ones who made Zimbabwe competitive.
This excuse does'nt stick for last 5-7 years no other player has been allowed more opportunities than Akmal family [incl. Babar Azam], Ahmed Shehzad, Asad Shafiq, Azhar Ali, Hafeez and Malik.
Other players like Sohaib Maqsood, FAwad Alam, Khurram Manzoor after one series were dropped abruptly. IF any of the dropped players stayed on they were better than the current XI.

The national XI can't play 50 overs so calling them mediocre is itself a joke.
 
Khwaja78 said:
And I guess you are lobbyist of Inzamam? Failed to tell one thing that I can hold Arthur responsible for?

Canthe coach be held responsible for players with 70+ tests like Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali? Forget about scoring they can't play 40 overs in a test match.

Did Arthur announce the test team on the 5th day of PAk v NZ before Paksitan went into bat?

Is Arthur playing his family in the team? Yes he has made major tactical blunders but the batting selections are the reason we are being defeated by every team we are playing. Can't blame him for selections. He gave chance to Usman Salahuddin and other youngsters so also can't accuse him for blocking new players. Hafeez, Malik, Imam were not selected by him.
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How am I lobbying for Inzamam when I am criticising him and have been for the last 6 months?

Then what is Arthur there for if not deciding the best combination for the tests? What is the whole team management doing? Were they sent on professional holidays?

How come Mickey and Sarfraz got the right combination against England but not now? Why couldn't inzi save his favourites then?
 
Khwaja78 said:
How many domestic batsman played for Pakistan in last 2 years? How many A tours planned for Pakistani second string?
How many Pakistani players meeting international teams in their own country? How many Pakistani players who've played outside UAE?

Yet Pakistani players play in every T20 league around the world. Shan Masood is one player but he is the product of the same domestic system.

Now you are calling the national team players mediocre rofl.
They are not even mediocre they are below standard they are the ones who made Zimbabwe competitive.
This excuse does'nt stick for last 5-7 years no other player has been allowed more opportunities than Akmal family [incl. Babar Azam], Ahmed Shehzad, Asad Shafiq, Azhar Ali, Hafeez and Malik.
Other players like Sohaib Maqsood, FAwad Alam, Khurram Manzoor after one series were dropped abruptly. IF any of the dropped players stayed on they were better than the current XI.

The national XI can't play 50 overs so calling them mediocre is itself a joke.
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Representation in T20 leagues across the globe means nothing. With the exception of IPL, franchises usually do not have excess to elite talent.

For example, India does not allow its players to play in foreign leagues and usually, players from England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand etc. are often unavailable due to international commitment. Hence, franchises have to settle for second and third string players and that is when our players come into play.

IPL is the only league in the world where the vast majority of the A list players in the world participate, and the fact that Pakistani players do not play has not hampered it from becoming the giant that it is today.

You look at the players in Pakistan today - both the ones in the team as well as the ones outside - how many of them will make the World XI in any format?

Maybe Babar in ODIs and T20s, but even that is debatable because there are other batsmen who play a similar role but do it better. However, that is it.

This pretty much sums up where we are today. The fact that you had to cite names likes Manzoor, Maqsood and Fawad as potential world class players who have been wronged by the selectors shows that we are clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

We have made these excuses for far too long now - we don’t play at home, we play in the UAE, we don’t play enough, we pick the wrong players, we don’t make selections on merit, we don’t arrange enough A tours etc. etc.

Why can’t we simply accept that we are just not good enough? Why are people not prepared to entertain that possibility, even though all evidence points in that direction?

Yes we have the second largest talent pool in the game, a game that does not face any serious competition in the country either. Yes the room for growth is tremendous. Keeping that in mind, it is indeed terrible to acknowledge that we are mediocre and it hurts our pride, but it is what it is.

Our fans need to get out of this mentality where they assume that they have world class talent at their disposal and if XYZ are selected instead of ABC, we will become an elite team.

No, that is rubbish. We must overcome our delusions and make peace with the fact that we are not good enough anymore. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core and we do not have the capacity to produce world beaters.

This of course does not mean that things have to be like this forever. I personally have no hope, but there is a possibility that we will recover from this potential and realize our potential.

However, that time is not now. Absolutely nothing can be done in the short-term and these fantasy XIs are pointless.
 
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[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

you calling The national XI as mediocre is an insult to the word mediocre. Can't repeat myself any first class team of Pakistan is better than the batting lineup in the team right now. Team comprising of imam's club level technique or limited players like Shafiqs and Azhars is below standard then even t20 tape ball cricket as even they have all the shots and face bounce worse than these midgets. Actually the current team is not good enuff. Not asking for world beaters just professional cricket players.
 
Inzi not picking a backup batsman really is baffling. If you can pick an extra keeper why not a batsman?
 
Should be sacked from the selectors role . I wouldn’t mind him as batting coach.
 
Rayyman said:
Yes it is; But I fail to see how the experienced Hafeez(averaged 12.66 at 62.29 in CT 2013) and spin basher Malik(averaged 8.33 at 47.16) will do better this year than they did last time. Having both grown 4 years older since then.

Don't bring the all-rounder argument into this. Malik got smashed to all parts in 444 match while Hafeez isn't the same with new action.
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Hah', Hafeez ended up playing the innings of his life at the finals. :p
 
Khwaja78 said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

you calling The national XI as mediocre is an insult to the word mediocre. Can't repeat myself any first class team of Pakistan is better than the batting lineup in the team right now. Team comprising of imam's club level technique or limited players like Shafiqs and Azhars is below standard then even t20 tape ball cricket as even they have all the shots and face bounce worse than these midgets. Actually the current team is not good enuff. Not asking for world beaters just professional cricket players.
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This hyperbole is the problem. We always assume or like to think that the players out of the team are better than the players in the team, but that is not the case.

Perhaps you can say it for one or two players, but on the whole, these are the best available players we have, and they like everyone else in domestic cricket are not good enough.

You send the likes of Azhar, Shafiq etc. to domestic cricket and they will outperform other players, just like how the likes of Hafeez, Kamran, Shehzad, Manzoor etc. top the charts consistently.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

This is the Most runs for year 2016, 2018 QAU trophy

Please find your chartbusters Azhar, Shafiq, Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, all the TTFs. If you can locate them do let us know.

2016 most runs
chartbust1.jpg


2018 most runs
chartbust2.jpg
 
Khwaja78 said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

This is the Most runs for year 2016, 2018 QAU trophy

Please find your chartbusters Azhar, Shafiq, Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, all the TTFs. If you can locate them do let us know.

2016 most runs
View attachment 87020


2018 most runs
View attachment 87021
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I understand your point but using these tables as example doesn't explain that. Most of the players you have mentioned are regular Internationals and they hardly play domestics, therefore they'll hardly be found in stats sorted by volume. May be, average table should have few names, like Hafeez scored a double in his few outings. Had Asad or Azhar played 10-12 games, I am sure they would have been among top few. Same goes for Yasir, Amir, Abbas or Hasan.

But, I do agree - if it's not working with current bunch, you can't sit idle that there is no alternative. Biggest problem in PAK side is complacency - players perform on the verge of being dropped or players make a strong comeback, just to fade away when they are a bit settled. Also, this team (all 3 formats) is too old, need to purge some old heads and slash down average age by 3-5 years.

PS: In any consideration, Imam's selection doesn't make any sense.
 
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Mamoon said:
This hyperbole is the problem. We always assume or like to think that the players out of the team are better than the players in the team, but that is not the case.

Perhaps you can say it for one or two players, but on the whole, these are the best available players we have, and they like everyone else in domestic cricket are not good enough.

You send the likes of Azhar, Shafiq etc. to domestic cricket and they will outperform other players, just like how the likes of Hafeez, Kamran, Shehzad, Manzoor etc. top the charts consistently.
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that is the excuse people used when Misbah/Azhar were captaining ODI... Ahmed Shehzad, Shoaib Maqsood, Younis Khan, Rahat Ali, Sohail Khan, M Nawaz, Wahab Riaz were supposed to be the best LOI cricketers in Pakistan

Then when you give chances to guys like Fakhar, Hassan, Shadab, Faheem, Babar, Haris... and you find better players

saying this is the best we have is a cop out answer. There is talent in Pakistan, maybe not enough to be a #1 test team, but maybe enough to get us to #4 or #5. You won't find out unless you have the guts to bench guys like Azhar and Asad...
 
coy0607 said:
that is the excuse people used when Misbah/Azhar were captaining ODI... Ahmed Shehzad, Shoaib Maqsood, Younis Khan, Rahat Ali, Sohail Khan, M Nawaz, Wahab Riaz were supposed to be the best LOI cricketers in Pakistan

Then when you give chances to guys like Fakhar, Hassan, Shadab, Faheem, Babar, Haris... and you find better players

saying this is the best we have is a cop out answer. There is talent in Pakistan, maybe not enough to be a #1 test team, but maybe enough to get us to #4 or #5. You won't find out unless you have the guts to bench guys like Azhar and Asad...
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And these players have turned out to be minnow bashers as well. In the last 12 months or so, they have been thoroughly humiliated by the likes of New Zealand, India and Bangladesh. Yes the won the Champions Trophy by beating three better teams on the trot, but those were one-off games. Even Misbah's mediocre ODI team won series in South Africa and India.

This new so-called better cricketers were exposed when they lost 8-9 consecutive ODIs to better teams post Champions Trophy. That was the litmus test of this team - there was no element of surprise anymore and the team had to show consistency. It was a test that they flunked with flying colours.

Some players might be marginal improvements over their predecessors, but overall, the skill-gap between Pakistan domestic cricket and international cricket is huge, and the quality of players that Pakistan is producing are not remotely good enough to be world beaters.
 
[MENTION=148737]Khwaja78[/MENTION]

There is a fundamental flaw in your analysis - regulars for the national team do not get to play enough domestic matches because of international duty, which is why it is futile to judge them by aggregate runs. However, whenever they play a decent number of domestic matches, they usually perform very well and outshine most of the domestic players.

That is why someone like Hafeez can quickly get back into the team after scoring a double hundred in F/C, or someone like Shehzad can bat like Kohli and Root in the 50 over Pakistan Cup while maintaining 30/70 stats in ODIs.

Asad Shafiq remains one of the most prolific List A batsmen in the country, yet he cannot replicate 25% of that international cricket.

More importantly, you answered your question yourself by highlighting these tables. Look at some of the prominent names who are dominating domestic cricket: Iftikhar Ahmed, Amin, Manzoor, Farhat, Umar Akmal, Aamer Sajjad, Saad Nassim etc.

- Aamer Sajjad is a dreadful 40 year old cricketer who has been playing domestic cricket for nearly two decades.

- everyone else that I have highlighted has failed in international cricket.

What does this tell you?

Where are those world class batsmen who are waiting to take international cricket by storm? Why can't these players outperform international TTFs and a 40 year old domestic mediocrity?

There might be one or two players like Saud Shakeel, Saad Ali etc. who will turn out to be better investments than the current players in the team, but one or two players hardly make a difference unless they are once in a lifetime talents. Pakistan today is short of 4-5 top, top players to be able to consistently maintain high rankings in Tests and ODIs.

However, considering the state of domestic cricket where international failures are dominating the scoring charts, it is pretty obvious that those world class players that we yearn for are nowhere to be found.
 
Looking forward to the usual rushed squad selection of the ODI team with usual gem selections from inzi.
 
Was very excited when you were named CS but you have proved you are no different then others...
#GoInziGo:sk
 
I think he has been a decent selector overall but this squad for the SA series was pathetic. No back up batsmen were named. Embarassing.
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=148737]Khwaja78[/MENTION]

That is why someone like Hafeez can quickly get back into the team after scoring a double hundred in F/C, or someone like Shehzad can bat like Kohli and Root in the 50 over Pakistan Cup while maintaining 30/70 stats in ODIs.

Asad Shafiq remains one of the most prolific List A batsmen in the country, yet he cannot replicate 25% of that international cricket.

More importantly, you answered your question yourself by highlighting these tables. Look at some of the prominent names who are dominating domestic cricket: Iftikhar Ahmed, Amin, Manzoor, Farhat, Umar Akmal, Aamer Sajjad, Saad Nassim etc.


- everyone else that I have highlighted has failed in international cricket.

What does this tell you?

Where are those world class batsmen who are waiting to take international cricket by storm? Why can't these players outperform international TTFs and a 40 year old domestic mediocrity?

However, considering the state of domestic cricket where international failures are dominating the scoring charts, it is pretty obvious that those world class players that we yearn for are nowhere to be found.
Click to expand...

You're wrong even in quoting stats but first, lets come first to the international failures and Hafeez double hundreds.

How long before Khurram Manzoor was declared an international failure one series, 2 series. Just one series in UAE and he was dropped. Compare this to Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Hafeez, Malik, how long they havebeen international failures failing against majors sides still in the team. A Fawad Alam and a Khurram Manzoor has not made one but mutiple 150+ runs in single innings and 200+, were they sent from the domestic series directly to play Pakistan test like Hafeez? How many double tons Hafeez scored in domestic or international cricket.

How many excuses you will make for chief Inzi?

Now coming to your stats. disinformation. Can you tell me what is the List A average of the most prolific Pakistani batsman Asad Shafiq rofl?

41.55, there are 10+ Pakistani players with average more than this. Khurram Manzoor averages 52.96, Saud averages 52 in List A [he is playing for 4 years now], Sahibzada Farhan 52 and Saad Ali avg. 46.05, Fawad Alam despite his lesser than his normal performance averages 48.82. And Shan Masood List A average 56.25.

If you still want to impose your garbage insight that this is the best team and players in domestic are lesser than these jokes Hafeez, Shafiq and Azhar please calculate,
what is the average of Shafiq compared to Shan Masood v SA in this tour?

How can you get a world class batsman when your chief selector is more interested in protecting places for his friends like family and own family in the team?
 
Khwaja78 said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

This is the Most runs for year 2016, 2018 QAU trophy

Please find your chartbusters Azhar, Shafiq, Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, all the TTFs. If you can locate them do let us know.

2016 most runs
View attachment 87020


2018 most runs
View attachment 87021
Click to expand...

if you go by this logic, Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma, Pujara, Bumrah are hopeless players. they will probably not figure in top 20 list in indian domestics... Most of the national team players play very few domestic matches. So complaining that they are not in this list and those who are in the list are better, is a waste of time and poor logic
 
WengerOut said:
People here are adamant that there is no dearth of batting talent and still advocating Faheem and shadab as batting reinforcements when they are are not specialist in either aspect. Quite contradicting
Click to expand...

The people who are advocating shadab and faheem are advocating the attached.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...vs-pakistan-1st-test-pak-in-ire-eng-scot-2018

Namely, 8 batting "options" to help get up to a par score.
5 bowling options , bulk of which is done by 3 main quicks, with faheem keeping it tight and chipping in with wickets and shadab bowling more in the 2nd innings than the first.

The lower order runs were critical.
Let's put it the other way. From the last innings played, these 2 would replace fakhar and yasir.
So (fakhar and yasir) Vs (shadab and faheem) which combo gives you more runs. Which combo gives u more wickets in the conditions. Which combo gives you more economical overs in these conditions. Which combo provides more rest to your main 3 quicks? Which combo gives you better fielding output? Which combo gets opposition tailenders out more cheaply?

It's a no brainer to me
 
Abdullah said:
The people who are advocating shadab and faheem are advocating the attached.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...vs-pakistan-1st-test-pak-in-ire-eng-scot-2018

Namely, 8 batting "options" to help get up to a par score.
5 bowling options , bulk of which is done by 3 main quicks, with faheem keeping it tight and chipping in with wickets and shadab bowling more in the 2nd innings than the first.

The lower order runs were critical.
Let's put it the other way. From the last innings played, these 2 would replace fakhar and yasir.
So (fakhar and yasir) Vs (shadab and faheem) which combo gives you more runs. Which combo gives u more wickets in the conditions. Which combo gives you more economical overs in these conditions. Which combo provides more rest to your main 3 quicks? Which combo gives you better fielding output? Which combo gets opposition tailenders out more cheaply?

It's a no brainer to me
Click to expand...

You are basing your opinion based on just one match. You need to be specialist in atleast one aspect. Other aspect should be a bonus. You can't replace specialist with pseudo ARs
 
WengerOut said:
You are basing your opinion based on just one match. You need to be specialist in atleast one aspect. Other aspect should be a bonus. You can't replace specialist with pseudo ARs
Click to expand...

Eng have captured stunning turnaround in ODI's and some decent success in tests with strategy of playing 4-5 allrounders. They will fail in long run imo but Pakistan can try something like that.
 
Khwaja78 said:
You're wrong even in quoting stats but first, lets come first to the international failures and Hafeez double hundreds.

How long before Khurram Manzoor was declared an international failure one series, 2 series. Just one series in UAE and he was dropped. Compare this to Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Hafeez, Malik, how long they havebeen international failures failing against majors sides still in the team. A Fawad Alam and a Khurram Manzoor has not made one but mutiple 150+ runs in single innings and 200+, were they sent from the domestic series directly to play Pakistan test like Hafeez? How many double tons Hafeez scored in domestic or international cricket.

How many excuses you will make for chief Inzi?

Now coming to your stats. disinformation. Can you tell me what is the List A average of the most prolific Pakistani batsman Asad Shafiq rofl?

41.55, there are 10+ Pakistani players with average more than this. Khurram Manzoor averages 52.96, Saud averages 52 in List A [he is playing for 4 years now], Sahibzada Farhan 52 and Saad Ali avg. 46.05, Fawad Alam despite his lesser than his normal performance averages 48.82. And Shan Masood List A average 56.25.

If you still want to impose your garbage insight that this is the best team and players in domestic are lesser than these jokes Hafeez, Shafiq and Azhar please calculate,
what is the average of Shafiq compared to Shan Masood v SA in this tour?

How can you get a world class batsman when your chief selector is more interested in protecting places for his friends like family and own family in the team?
Click to expand...

You are greatly misinformed yet you have the audacity to call my analysis garbage.

Firstly, the 41.55 List-A average of Shafiq that you see in his Cricinfo profile is his combined ODI and List-A average.

That 41.55 is considerably lower than his List-A average because he averages 23 in ODIs. If you take his ODI stats out, he averages 50+ at a 90+ strike rate in List-A

Secondly, do you really think that someone like Manzoor is the answer to our batting woes? Do you think he has what it takes to perform and score big against the leading bowlers in the world?

Sahibzada was one of the most hyped young openers in the last 12 months or so, but he looked really ordinary in the few matches that he got in international cricket. Sure you can argue that he needs to be given a longer rope, but then again, do you actually see him as someone who can dominate the best bowlers in the world and compete with the best ODI openers like Rohit, Dhawan, Roy, Bairstow, Hales, Guptill, de Kock, Finch etc.?

That is the level we need to reach in order to be a top team. Do you see Manzoor and Sahibzada replicating their performances?

Fawad Alam could have played regular ODI cricket a decade ago, but he is simply misfit in today's era. He has no power game and gets tied down easily.

When he returned to the team in the Asia Cup, he played some good knocks. However, in Oct-Nov 2014, few months before the World Cup, he was dreadful against Australia. I clearly remember all his innings in the three matches and don't even need to double-check by looking at the scorecards:

Match 1:

Within one over, the Australian had worked his technique out. They blocked his scoring zones and for 35-40 deliveries, he struggled to break the shackles but couldn't. When his misery ended, he had scored 7 in 40 I think.

Match 2:

He came in the last 15 overs, batted for nearly 70 deliveries and scored only 20 runs. During those 70 deliveries, he only hit 1 boundary.

He was completely helpless because the Australians did not allow him to nudge the ball in the leg side and he did not have any plan B to take the game to them.

Match 3:

Second ball duck.

This was the performance of one of your most prolific domestic champion. It took him less than an hour for the likes of Australia to work him out, something that List-A teams in Pakistan have not been able to for years. I can see the merit in the argument that he should play Test cricket (especially in UAE/Asia), but he is not an ODI player and the major teams will work him out.

Yes he can score runs against Sri Lanka and West Indies and Zimbabwe, but all of our batsmen can.

After the World Cup, he was given another chance to redeem himself after the humiliating against Australia. He played the ODI series in Bangladesh and was considered as someone who would shore up the middle-order with Misbah and Younis out of the team.

However, he badly failed in all matches and it was obvious that Bangladesh had worked him out as well. He score about 20 runs in those three matches at a strike rate of less than 50. He was rightfully dropped for Malik after that series, and the latter has been one of our best batsmen since.

I am not defending Inzamam. You have this impression because you are new here - I have written essays on my problems with Inzamam. A wonderful, wonderful batsman, but without a bat in his hand, he has been one of the most toxic personalities in history of Pakistan cricket who has done a lot of damage.

From his refusal to give chances to a generation of Pakistani cricketers than won two U-19 World Cups, his role in Oval 2006, his role in taking half of Pakistan team to the rebel ICL and his role in the oath against Younis in 2009 - I can go on and on, but that would be beyond the scope of this thread.

Nevertheless, my point is that Pakistan cricket has reached a point where we can no longer hide behind the excuses that our Chief Selector is corrupt and he is not picking the right players etc. The fact is that their is a serious talent crisis in Pakistan now and we are simply not capable of producing elite players.

Our cricket culture and system is rotten and has malfunctioned. You can bring the most honest and competent selector in the world, but he will not be able to do anything when the quality is simply not available. Your stats indeed tell a story - international failures are still dominating domestic cricket, and if the so-called world class young players that are hiding in Pakistan cannot outclass the likes of Manzoor, Farhat, Iftikhar, Saad Nasim and Umar etc. at this stage, what hope do they have of competing with the best players in the world?
 
I think inzamam has been okish.
His major fault is that he couldn’t get tough enough to provide options to Mickey as replacements for misfiring seniors in the test team (shafiq and Azhar) and odi team (hafeez and Malik).
But in this case the status quo of protecting seniors has always been the norm in Pakistan cricket
 
Khwaja78 said:
You're wrong even in quoting stats but first, lets come first to the international failures and Hafeez double hundreds.

How long before Khurram Manzoor was declared an international failure one series, 2 series. Just one series in UAE and he was dropped. Compare this to Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Hafeez, Malik, how long they havebeen international failures failing against majors sides still in the team. A Fawad Alam and a Khurram Manzoor has not made one but mutiple 150+ runs in single innings and 200+, were they sent from the domestic series directly to play Pakistan test like Hafeez? How many double tons Hafeez scored in domestic or international cricket.

How many excuses you will make for chief Inzi?

Now coming to your stats. disinformation. Can you tell me what is the List A average of the most prolific Pakistani batsman Asad Shafiq rofl?



41.55, there are 10+ Pakistani players with average more than this. Khurram Manzoor averages 52.96, Saud averages 52 in List A [he is playing for 4 years now], Sahibzada Farhan 52 and Saad Ali avg. 46.05, Fawad Alam despite his lesser than his normal performance averages 48.82. And Shan Masood List A average 56.25.

If you still want to impose your garbage insight that this is the best team and players in domestic are lesser than these jokes Hafeez, Shafiq and Azhar please calculate,
what is the average of Shafiq compared to Shan Masood v SA in this tour?

How can you get a world class batsman when your chief selector is more interested in protecting places for his friends like family and own family in the team?
Click to expand...

Perfect response, this trend started under Misbah, inzi era was the beginnging of our downfall we only won matches because of Shoaib Akhtar wh inzi fought with the most
 
WengerOut said:
You are basing your opinion based on just one match. You need to be specialist in atleast one aspect. Other aspect should be a bonus. You can't replace specialist with pseudo ARs
Click to expand...

Forget everything else.
Fakhar and yasir Vs shadab and faheem.
Answer all the questions above honestly, given where we are playing.
Shadab got a 50 at Trent bridge when every1 bombed as well and the 2 scored runs in the Ireland game.
The other thing to take into account with 8 batting options is that the you can take the opposition bowlers into an extra spell.
 
Abdullah said:
Forget everything else.
Fakhar and yasir Vs shadab and faheem.
Answer all the questions above honestly, given where we are playing.
Shadab got a 50 at Trent bridge when every1 bombed as well and the 2 scored runs in the Ireland game.
The other thing to take into account with 8 batting options is that the you can take the opposition bowlers into an extra spell.
Click to expand...

Are you implying that Shadab should replace a genuine batsman? Maybe i am confused. It could be like Bhuvi replacing Rahane. Bhuvi also has 3 50s in England and also couple of 30s on the devilish joburg pitch. I would not encourage that even though he is a genuine bowler. Whatever i have seen of Shadab, he is a good LOI player. As far as tests, he is not a genuine batsman or bowler.
 
WengerOut said:
Are you implying that Shadab should replace a genuine batsman? Maybe i am confused. It could be like Bhuvi replacing Rahane. Bhuvi also has 3 50s in England and also couple of 30s on the devilish joburg pitch. I would not encourage that even though he is a genuine bowler. Whatever i have seen of Shadab, he is a good LOI player. As far as tests, he is not a genuine batsman or bowler.
Click to expand...

I think shadab is a better test bat. Not so good in LOI.
Some teams play 5 bats 1 allrounder, 1 wk, 4 bowlers.
Others play 6 bats 1 wk, 4 bowlers
We need to play 5 bats, 2 AR ,wk, and 3 quicks in overseas conditions.
I am not saying we will be world beaters with this , but it gives us our best chance to
1 get to a par score with lower order runs
2 have our quicks to do bulk of the bowling and run in hard
3 spin option for later in the game
 
^obviously it will be tough for faheem and shadab to turn up and start batting when they haven't had a bat all tour.
This shouldn't detract from coming early and playing more tour games before such tours. That is just as vital
 
I kind of agree to the points laid out by Mamoon that our domestic pitches and players itself are not of international standard because of which they get exposed in International ODIs. However, the only way to clean this mess is to give chances to our best domestic players (Saud Shakeel, Saad Ali,etc) in the team for a longer run. Another problem lies in the fact that PAK does not get so many games in a year compared to other ODI teams that would be a chance for newcomers to shine and possibly gain confidence esp against Top Teams. Example is Team India which literally plays every other month and knows the strengths and weaknesses of every other team it plays due to so much of exposure, and also the success of IPL.
 
Perhaps the new MD can do a whole revamp of our structure, coaching facilities and decrease the inherent gap between the Intl and Domestic teams performance.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

The only thing I agree with you is on your statement that Inzamam is the most toxic personality to exist for Pakistan cricket .

In history he wil go down as the worst yet the most powerful selector same way he was the worst yet the most powerful captain choosing opners lke Hafeez with 19 average in 2007. Inzi has faced zero or less than normal criticism from ex-players for devastating the batting department of the Pakistan national team and practicing open nepotism.
 
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