China vs France - Who has wronged Muslims more?

[Tubs]

There is far more worldwide condemnation of France, who supported the right to draw cartoons of Muhammad and not be killed for it, than China, who have Muslims in concentration camps. So I'd like to ask, which country has wronged Muslims more?

 

[Last Monetarist]

China. This is not even a serious debate except perhaps for the gullible.

 

[Tubs]

China. This is not even a serious debate except perhaps for the gullible.

I agree, but there are some posters on here that say that China is just preserving their culture, and give full rights to Muslims...

 

[Mesozoic]

Obviously China.

 

[gani999]

Muslim countries themselves have wronged their own people more than any China or France ever can.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Thread is creating a false debate. China wronged Muslims, but france wronged Islam. That is the difference.

 

[Syed1]

Awkward moment when majority of the contributions on this thread so far are by Hindutvas.



Seems like they shy away from looking at their own selves in the mirror.

 

[gani999]

Thread is creating a false debate. China wronged Muslims, but france wronged Islam. That is the difference.

Calling islam a 'disease' is not wronging it?

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/china-thinks-islam-disease-and-muslim-leaders-dont-care

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Thread is creating a false debate. China wronged Muslims, but france wronged Islam. That is the difference.

I think what non-Muslims don't realise - or deliberately deflect from - is that most Muslims are aware that Muslim people are getting persecuted in places like China, India and Myanmar, and other Muslim countries for that matter. But France has attacked the roots of their religion openly using slurs on the Prophet PBUH.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Calling islam a 'disease' is not wronging it?

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/china-thinks-islam-disease-and-muslim-leaders-dont-care

Provide the quote where a Chinese politburo member said that.

 

[Itachi]

context is important.

Whatever china did wrong, they are giving it away to pakistan and hence, pakistani muslims have forgiven them.

Whatever France is doing, the aid is miniscule compared to china. Hence more the outrage.

If France gives more money on the table, it will turn.

 

[Tubs]

Thread is creating a false debate. China wronged Muslims, but france wronged Islam. That is the difference.

Sure, but torturing and killing Muslims is surely worse than offending the religion?

 

[Tubs]

I think what non-Muslims don't realise - or deliberately deflect from - is that most Muslims are aware that Muslim people are getting persecuted in places like China, India and Myanmar, and other Muslim countries for that matter. But France has attacked the roots of their religion openly using slurs on the Prophet PBUH.

I'll echo what I said to someone else. Surely the plight of those being tortured, murdered and forced to change their religion is a bigger issue than some disparaging remarks about the prophet?

 

[Mesozoic]

I agree, but there are some posters on here that say that China is just preserving their culture, and give full rights to Muslims...

You can't blame them to be fair. As they say, you should never bite the hand that feeds you. We should give them the due credit for trying their level best to defend their masters either by deflection or by downplaying it with reasons like you've mentioned.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Sure, but torturing and killing Muslims is surely worse than offending the religion?

How did you conclude that torturing was for being muslims, and not because of separatism?

 

[Third_Umpire]

I think what non-Muslims don't realise - or deliberately deflect from - is that most Muslims are aware that Muslim people are getting persecuted in places like China, India and Myanmar, and other Muslim countries for that matter. But France has attacked the roots of their religion openly using slurs on the Prophet PBUH.

Do you think the Chinese are speaking pleasantries about the Prophet as they put Muslims in camps and are looking to ethnically cleanse their population of Muslims? Everything has a price, including religion and religious solidarity. Muslims, specially Pakistanis are showing that for the right price (China's support at the global level) they are willing to overlook their religion and fellow muslims being desecrated.

Meanwhile, let's talk about a few cartoons in France...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

context is important.

Whatever china did wrong, they are giving it away to pakistan and hence, pakistani muslims have forgiven them.

Whatever France is doing, the aid is miniscule compared to china. Hence more the outrage.

If France gives more money on the table, it will turn.

France doesn't need to give money or insult the Prophet PBUH.

 

[Itachi]

France doesn't need to give money or insult the Prophet PBUH.

Neither I said France needs to.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Do you think the Chinese are speaking pleasantries about the Prophet as they put Muslims in camps and are looking to ethnically cleanse their population of Muslims? Everything has a price, including religion and religious solidarity. Muslims, specially Pakistanis are showing that for the right price (China's support at the global level) they are willing to overlook their religion and fellow muslims being desecrated.

Meanwhile, let's talk about a few cartoons in France...

Is Pakistan some declared caliphate which claims authority over all world's Muslims? As far as I know only ISIS did this when they took over parts of Iraq and Syria and declared the definitive Islamic state. Quite literally.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Neither I said France needs to.

But they did insult the Prophet PBUH, whether they needed to or not.

 

[Itachi]

But they did insult the Prophet PBUH, whether they needed to or not.

They would have needed had they required validation from Muslim world. They don't need the validation. Hence, they don't need to throw money.

 

[Tubs]

How did you conclude that torturing was for being muslims, and not because of separatism?

Because China only has concentration camps for Muslims, and they want to edit the Quran and only allow their edited version in the country (as an atheist, I don't care that the Quran is edited, but they shouldn't censor the non-Chinese-edited-text).

 

[CricketCartoons]

Because China only has concentration camps for Muslims, and they want to edit the Quran and only allow their edited version in the country (as an atheist, I don't care that the Quran is edited, but they shouldn't censor the non-Chinese-edited-text).

Are only separatists from xinjiang housed there, or all muslims are in those camps?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They would have needed had they required validation from Muslim world. They don't need the validation. Hence, they don't need to throw money.

Agreed, they did what they liked, some ISIS type Muslims in France responded how they liked. Those around the world who were not so militant responded only with protests. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Tubs]

Are only separatists from xinjiang housed there, or all muslims are in those camps?

Not all Muslims, no. Uyghur Muslims, sure. It's strange that you can't seem to accept that China is targeting Muslims, or at least some Islamic ideas.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Is Pakistan some declared caliphate which claims authority over all world's Muslims? As far as I know only ISIS did this when they took over parts of Iraq and Syria and declared the definitive Islamic state. Quite literally.

Pakistanis or otherwise, I don’t see any Muslims condemning China but at the same time are ready to wage war in France. Can you explain the hypocrisy?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistanis or otherwise, I don’t see any Muslims condemning China but at the same time are ready to wage war in France. Can you explain the hypocrisy?

Which Muslims have declared war in France? I think you need to be clearer whether you are talking about nation state response or individual.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Not all Muslims, no. Uyghur Muslims, sure. It's strange that you can't seem to accept that China is targeting Muslims, or at least some Islamic ideas.

Uyghur muslims are the separatists. It is strange that you agree that not all muslims are being targeted and only the separatist uyghurs are, but you attribute it to their religion.

 

[Tubs]

Uyghur muslims are the separatists. It is strange that you agree that not all muslims are being targeted and only the separatist uyghurs are, but you attribute it to their religion.

First of all, even if it was to stop separatism, it doesn't nearly justify what they're doing. Secondly, did you miss the part where they are editing the Quran? They are also forcing Uyghurs to eat pork and drink alcohol in the re-education camps, too. To suggest that Islam isn't a large component is incredibly disingenuous.

 

[CricketCartoons]

First of all, even if it was to stop separatism, it doesn't nearly justify what they're doing. Secondly, did you miss the part where they are editing the Quran? They are also forcing Uyghurs to eat pork and drink alcohol in the re-education camps, too. To suggest that Islam isn't a large component is incredibly disingenuous.

So now you are not sure if it is because of their religion or because of separatism?

Will they be still targeted if thet were not separatists and law abiding chinese citizen?

 

[GenericBrand]

Recently, China.

Historically/overall, France.

 

[Ashmal]

So a thread about Muslims...and most of the comments are by Non-Muslims (including some by the pro-Hindutva brigade)

I wonder why....surely it can't be a coincidence

 

[Itachi]

So a thread about Muslims...and most of the comments are by Non-Muslims (including some by the pro-Hindutva brigade)

I wonder why....surely it can't be a coincidence

Because when China and Muslim, these two words combine, most Pakistani Muslim prefer silence as IK does.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I agree, but there are some posters on here that say that China is just preserving their culture, and give full rights to Muslims...

Those folks have likely never set foot in China. As someone who lived for more than a couple of years in Shanghai, the horror stories became less shocking as it got commonplace to expect the CCP to be barbaric and inhuman against those that defy it.

The folks conflating the acts of the CCP against muslims and Islam (such as Uighurs forced to burn the quran, and believe me that's a minor example) with France's naive sense of nationalism and identity politics converging around the concept of laïcité are utterly deranged morons.

 

[Tubs]

So now you are not sure if it is because of their religion or because of separatism?

Will they be still targeted if thet were not separatists and law abiding chinese citizen?

It really doesn't matter that there is a separatists component to it or not, the fact is that they are being forced to eat pork and drink alcohol, and the religion is being restricted. But perhaps you can't say a bad word about your Chinese overlords, I understand.

The cognitive dissonance is astounding. Just admit you think the cartoons are worse.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So a thread about Muslims...and most of the comments are by Non-Muslims (including some by the pro-Hindutva brigade)

I wonder why....surely it can't be a coincidence

Its always the RSS and anti-Muslims but what is hillarious is they are virtually ignorant of anything in relations to Islam and Muslims.

France is by far worse.

Two simple reasons.

1. France is attacking ALL Muslims with their laws. It is attacking Islam ONLY in France.

2. France has a long bloody history of butchering Muslims around the world. China has nowhere near killed as many. French even used beheading as their a trophy type kill, hanging the heads of Muslims on sticks.

Btw China has also pumped hundreds of billions into Muslims lands. France give a few millions in aid but this is stolen from the past.

 

[Tubs]

Its always the RSS and anti-Muslims but what is hillarious is they are virtually ignorant of anything in relations to Islam and Muslims.

France is by far worse.

Two simple reasons.

1. France is attacking ALL Muslims with their laws. It is attacking Islam ONLY in France.

2. France has a long bloody history of butchering Muslims around the world. China has nowhere near killed as many. French even used beheading as their a trophy type kill, hanging the heads of Muslims on sticks.

Btw China has also pumped hundreds of billions into Muslims lands. France give a few millions in aid but this is stolen from the past.

What French laws? The expression of religion? It affects all religions in that regard. I don't agree with it, but a Jew can't wear a yarmalke at school or in government positions just as a Muslim can't.

Sure, France has a terrible colonial past. But those countries were only Muslim because of Arab colonialism before-hand, if you want to get into the colonial aspect. I was talking about currently, anywhere, where people seem to think cartoons are worse than systematic murder and re-education.

 

[miandadrules]

What French laws? The expression of religion? It affects all religions in that regard. I don't agree with it, but a Jew can't wear a yarmalke at school or in government positions just as a Muslim can't.

Sure, France has a terrible colonial past. But those countries were only Muslim because of Arab colonialism before-hand, if you want to get into the colonial aspect. I was talking about currently, anywhere, where people seem to think cartoons are worse than systematic murder and re-education.

European powers have acknowledged and continue to acknowledge the many atrocities they have committed.

How many Islamic/Muslim states or empires have even acknowledged one of the many, many atrocities they have committed?

 

[KingKhanWC]

What French laws? The expression of religion? It affects all religions in that regard. I don't agree with it, but a Jew can't wear a yarmalke at school or in government positions just as a Muslim can't.

I've wrote the answer to this many times. However Holocaust is enough to confirm bias.

Sure, France has a terrible colonial past. But those countries were only Muslim because of Arab colonialism before-hand, if you want to get into the colonial aspect. I was talking about currently, anywhere, where people seem to think cartoons are worse than systematic murder and re-education.

The title is who has wrong Musims more, history is relevant because French colonialism is still in the warped minds of these people. France are still bombing Muslims around the world atm. Unless you want to talk about 20.11.2020 lol.

 

[Tubs]

I've wrote the answer to this many times. However Holocaust is enough to confirm bias.



The title is who has wrong Musims more, history is relevant because French colonialism is still in the warped minds of these people. France are still bombing Muslims around the world atm. Unless you want to talk about 20.11.2020 lol.

I know you love banging on about the holocaust example, and I accept that it shouldn't be illegal, but at least that can be justified by being against deliberate, erroneous and nefarious misinformation. Can't be compared to religious freedom, as Jews don't get preferential treatment (i.e, they aren't exempt from the no religious clothing rule in schools and government jobs).

Okay, sure, but if colonialism is a metric, then Muslims have colonised just as much, if not more, so it's a hypocritical one. France still bombing countries, sure, but so are other Muslim countries too. The thing that is unique with China is state-enforced censorship of the religion, and genuine concentration camps. If this was a Western country, you would not be dismissing this at all.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I know you love banging on about the holocaust example, and I accept that it shouldn't be illegal, but at least that can be justified by being against deliberate, erroneous and nefarious misinformation. Can't be compared to religious freedom, as Jews don't get preferential treatment (i.e, they aren't exempt from the no religious clothing rule in schools and government jobs).

Not questiong the holocaust gives Jews extra protection as this is seen as racism. So it is preferntial treatment.

Okay, sure, but if colonialism is a metric, then Muslims have colonised just as much, if not more, so it's a hypocritical one. France still bombing countries, sure, but so are other Muslim countries too. The thing that is unique with China is state-enforced censorship of the religion, and genuine concentration camps. If this was a Western country, you would not be dismissing this at all.

The thread is not about Muslim history. China treats all religions the same, France doesnt. As for camps, there is no indpendent media to confirm this, you are only accepting what mainly western media is stating , along with RSS India who are enemies with China. China is not flying around the world dropping bombs on Muslim children, France is along with it's allies. Its absurd to even suggest China is worse but you and your family are safe from French bombs.

 

[Tubs]

Not questiong the holocaust gives Jews extra protection as this is seen as racism. So it is preferntial treatment.



The thread is not about Muslim history. China treats all religions the same, France doesnt. As for camps, there is no indpendent media to confirm this, you are only accepting what mainly western media is stating , along with RSS India who are enemies with China. China is not flying around the world dropping bombs on Muslim children, France is along with it's allies. Its absurd to even suggest China is worse but you and your family are safe from French bombs.

Jews are an ethnicity, so there can be a form of racism, but that is to do with ethnicity, not religion. Religions are all treated the same in France, stop trying to obfuscate.


Does China put Christians in camps? Buddhists? No, so they obviously don't treat all religions the same. And don't act dumb like Imran Khan did when pressed on this issue, there are testimonies from Uyghurs, videos of them being forced onto trains, etc.

I agree that Western foreign policy is generally pretty bad, but is France deliberately targeting civilians (like China- that's all they're doing), or is their aim to get terrorists (the debate to whether they are justified in doing so is a different one). The Saudis may be doing that Yemeni children, but France aren't. You just don't want to accept that Pakistan allies themselves with someone who treats Muslims so badly ( I don't blame them, Pakistan needs allies) because it makes all your chest-thumping about the West and India hypocritical

 

[miandadrules]

Not questiong the holocaust gives Jews extra protection as this is seen as racism. So it is preferntial treatment.



The thread is not about Muslim history. China treats all religions the same, France doesnt. As for camps, there is no indpendent media to confirm this, you are only accepting what mainly western media is stating , along with RSS India who are enemies with China. China is not flying around the world dropping bombs on Muslim children, France is along with it's allies. Its absurd to even suggest China is worse but you and your family are safe from French bombs.

How embarrassing.

 

[Nadeemp]

How embarrassing.

Hahahaha

 

[KingKhanWC]

Jews are an ethnicity, so there can be a form of racism, but that is to do with ethnicity, not religion. Religions are all treated the same in France, stop trying to obfuscate.

Jews are not a race. You have black Jews, White Jews and Brown Jews.

People have been arrested, fired from Charlie Hebdo and vilified for insulting Jews but insulting Islam seems to be progressive .

Does China put Christians in camps? Buddhists? No, so they obviously don't treat all religions the same. And don't act dumb like Imran Khan did when pressed on this issue, there are testimonies from Uyghurs, videos of them being forced onto trains, etc.

lol China have killed many Christians and Bhuddists over the years. Go listen to Dalia Lama and ask why he's in India. In fact the same media which points out camps for Muslims also says Christians are persecuted too.

I advise before rushing with your Islamapbobia do some basic research.

agree that Western foreign policy is generally pretty bad, but is France deliberately targeting civilians (like China- that's all they're doing), or is their aim to get terrorists (the debate to whether they are justified in doing so is a different one). The Saudis may be doing that Yemeni children, but France aren't. You just don't want to accept that Pakistan allies themselves with someone who treats Muslims so badly ( I don't blame them, Pakistan needs allies) because it makes all your chest-thumping about the West and India hypocritical

Yes France sees cvilians killed in their bombings as collateral damage. Its deliberate targetting often attacking innocents to justify their state terrorism.

The problem is you are too quick to attack Islam and Muslims, the only reason for this absurd thread , which is why your arguments never hold up. Put the hatred in your heart to one side and try use reason and logic if you really want to learn.

 

[Robert]

Not questiong the holocaust gives Jews extra protection as this is seen as racism. So it is preferntial treatment.

The thread is not about Muslim history. China treats all religions the same, France doesnt. As for camps, there is no indpendent media to confirm this, you are only accepting what mainly western media is stating , along with RSS India who are enemies with China. China is not flying around the world dropping bombs on Muslim children, France is along with it's allies. Its absurd to even suggest China is worse but you and your family are safe from French bombs.

You are protected for your race *and* your religion just as Jews are.

China is not emphatically *not* treating all religions the same as it has *not* put a million Christians or Hindus in concentration camps and forcibly sterilised the women. Why do you give this monstrous regime a free pass for their crimes against Muslims?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

European powers have acknowledged and continue to acknowledge the many atrocities they have committed.

How many Islamic/Muslim states or empires have even acknowledged one of the many, many atrocities they have committed?

Which Islamic/Muslim states still send their soldiers and weapons of mass destruction to all corners of the east even today to maintain their dominance worldwide? If they don't apologise for the past, at least they don't send armies across the world to enforce their dominance.

 

[globalcitizen]

Please don’t ask such tough questions here. Hypocrisy runs wild here

 

[Tubs]

Jews are not a race. You have black Jews, White Jews and Brown Jews.

People have been arrested, fired from Charlie Hebdo and vilified for insulting Jews but insulting Islam seems to be progressive .




lol China have killed many Christians and Bhuddists over the years. Go listen to Dalia Lama and ask why he's in India. In fact the same media which points out camps for Muslims also says Christians are persecuted too.

I advise before rushing with your Islamapbobia do some basic research.



Yes France sees cvilians killed in their bombings as collateral damage. Its deliberate targetting often attacking innocents to justify their state terrorism.

The problem is you are too quick to attack Islam and Muslims, the only reason for this absurd thread , which is why your arguments never hold up. Put the hatred in your heart to one side and try use reason and logic if you really want to learn.

Sorry, I misspoke, Jewish is an ethnicity. Ashkenazi, Sephardic, etc. You have secular Jews, atheist Jews, so it's obviously not just a religion. The religious practices of Judaism are attacked a lot, and it's fine. Regardless, religion is a protected class, you can't be discriminated because of it, and you aren't in France. Charlie Hebdo has made fun of Jews many, many times. I know there was one case when someone was fired, and I generally wouldn't agree with that (though I admit it's a grey area when ethnicity comes into it). Regardless, all religions are the same in the eyes of the law in France, and your victim mentality doesn't change that.

'Islamaphobia' the favourite buzzword to shut down all discussion, bravo. Sure, the CCP terrible, but they're uniquely terrible to Muslims. Christians are persecuted too? Perhaps, but not to the level that Muslims are, therefore they don't treat all religions equal. There. Boom. Debunked.

Show me a source that France deliberately attack civilians, like the Saudis do.

I never attack Muslims. Sure, I attack Islam (and many other religions), but that's because ideology is always up to scrutiny, but I'd never attack people as people are better and worth more than ideology. You can't talk about logic when your arguments are contradictory, nor can you mention reason when you're riddled with cognitive dissonance. You are anti-vax, think the concentration camps are Western propaganda, dismiss all scriptural criticism of Islam as 'hate sites', and would be (quite rightly) outraged if India was doing this instead of China. You are antithetical to logic and reason.

 

[Tubs]

There is no law in the West that protects Muslims, Christians, Hindus under racial discrimination laws. Only Jews.

This is precisley why antisemitism is a crime, and Islamophobia is not.

Again, I am not a huge fan of some of those laws, but Jews are certainly an ethnicity, there are even secular Jews, atheist Jews, etc. That is why there is (at least) some justification for racial discrimination laws for Jews, even if we don't necessarily agree with it.

Religion is a protected class in the West, so you can't be discriminated against for holding those beliefs, I'm not sure what more you would want. That doesn't mean the ideologies themselves are above scrutiny (this includes Judaism), but the followers of those religions are treated the same under the law.

 

[Technics 1210]

Oh I forgot. The China vs. France comparison is pointless.

China imprisions and tortures more indigenous Chinese than Muslims in China. Simply because they speak against the Chinese government and not their religion.

This fantasy that muslims are targeted in China is a falsehood and designed for the sheeple to lap it up.

France on the other hand is meant to be a symbol of democracy and freedom.

Get real.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This is one of the strange aspects of faith that the faithless can't grasp. For many Muslims the devotion and affection towards Nabi (saw) supersedes everything.

 

[kingusama92]

This is one of the strange aspects of faith that the faithless can't grasp. For many Muslims the devotion and affection towards Nabi (saw) supersedes everything.

Which is sad as that's not what the religion teaches.

 

[Nadeemp]

Sorry, I misspoke, Jewish is an ethnicity. Ashkenazi, Sephardic, etc. You have secular Jews, atheist Jews, so it's obviously not just a religion. The religious practices of Judaism are attacked a lot, and it's fine. Regardless, religion is a protected class, you can't be discriminated because of it, and you aren't in France. Charlie Hebdo has made fun of Jews many, many times. I know there was one case when someone was fired, and I generally wouldn't agree with that (though I admit it's a grey area when ethnicity comes into it). Regardless, all religions are the same in the eyes of the law in France, and your victim mentality doesn't change that.

'Islamaphobia' the favourite buzzword to shut down all discussion, bravo. Sure, the CCP terrible, but they're uniquely terrible to Muslims. Christians are persecuted too? Perhaps, but not to the level that Muslims are, therefore they don't treat all religions equal. There. Boom. Debunked.

Show me a source that France deliberately attack civilians, like the Saudis do.

I never attack Muslims. Sure, I attack Islam (and many other religions), but that's because ideology is always up to scrutiny, but I'd never attack people as people are better and worth more than ideology. You can't talk about logic when your arguments are contradictory, nor can you mention reason when you're riddled with cognitive dissonance. You are anti-vax, think the concentration camps are Western propaganda, dismiss all scriptural criticism of Islam as 'hate sites', and would be (quite rightly) outraged if India was doing this instead of China. You are antithetical to logic and reason.

Good post

 

[Nadeemp]

This is one of the strange aspects of faith that the faithless can't grasp. For many Muslims the devotion and affection towards Nabi (saw) supersedes everything.

Supersedes logic ?

 

[Lurker_Ind]

This is one of the strange aspects of faith that the faithless can't grasp. For many Muslims the devotion and affection towards Nabi (saw) supersedes everything.

Is the love for Prophet Muhammad PBUH greater than Allah himself?

 

[RajBan]

Which is sad as that's not what the religion teaches.

True. It's even more ironic given that there is a strong oppsition by many Muslims to symbolic rituals in other religions. They don't realize they are guilty of the very thing, albeit in a different form, that they stand strongly against.

 

[MenInG]

Is the love for Prophet Muhammad PBUH greater than Allah himself?

One and the same for Muslims

 

[Mamoon]

Does France have Nazi style camps where they detain Muslims and commit unspeakable atrocities?

No, so the answer to this question is China and it is not even close.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

I know you don’t have an answer, but I am still tempted to ask. You say that China is a godless state that treats all religions equally.

If that is the case, why don’t they have concentration camps for members of other religions?

You also state that they have detained the Uyghur Muslims not because of religion but because they are separatists/anti nationals.

If that is the case, why is China targeting their religion? In 2017, they banned the Uyghur men from growing beards, they banned women from wearing veils and they also destroyed mosques.

You are detained if you are found reciting the Quran and you are forced to renounce your religion.

Is it blatantly obvious that China has a problem with not only separatism and anti-nationalism but also Islam?

Isn’t it blatantly obvious that China thinks that these people are deriving their anti-nationalism from Islam?

I hope these questions are not overly complicated for you. I don’t expect an intelligent answer though.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Which is sad as that's not what the religion teaches.

Says who? The religion is based on love of the Prophet. A muslim should feel deeply aggrieved when he (saw) is affected.

Now of course those that doesn't condone the behaviour of those that smash things up to protest cartoons...but in general the love for the Prophet is critical in Islam.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Supersedes logic ?

Love in general supersedes logic does it not. It isn't transactional and cant be measured.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Is the love for Prophet Muhammad PBUH greater than Allah himself?

I don't understand the question and I dont know if its sincere.

Anyway, some muslims believe that love of the prophet (saw) is an act that is pleasing to Allah.

 

[Robert]

Not questiong the holocaust gives Jews extra protection as this is seen as racism. So it is preferntial treatment.

The thread is not about Muslim history. China treats all religions the same, France doesnt. As for camps, there is no indpendent media to confirm this, you are only accepting what mainly western media is stating , along with RSS India who are enemies with China. China is not flying around the world dropping bombs on Muslim children, France is along with it's allies. Its absurd to even suggest China is worse but you and your family are safe from French bombs.

France is supporting some stable Muslim nations in defeating other Muslims who want to impose medieval theocracy. Perhaps you would prefer it if the French did not bother, and Muslim nation after nation falls to the medievalists.

Interesting that you think the Holocaust only victimised Jews, when 60% of the murdered were not Jewish.

Holocaust denial in Germany and France is a crime because those countries confront their past, and say “never again”. Anyone who tries to dilute the Holocaust faces penalties because they weaken society’s resolve.

 

[Varun]

It's all about the narrative.

China obviously tops France in anti-Muslim activities, but their tight leash over their domestic and foreign press ensures that nothing leaks out.

On the other hand, even a cartoon causes these Tunisians and Chechens to react violently in France, and Pakistanis to block highways because everybody hears about it.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

India.

 

[kingusama92]

Says who? The religion is based on love of the Prophet. A muslim should feel deeply aggrieved when he (saw) is affected.

Now of course those that doesn't condone the behaviour of those that smash things up to protest cartoons...but in general the love for the Prophet is critical in Islam.

The religion itself.

Look at what I quoted.

The post said supersedes everything. Everything includes Allah.

 

[rhony]

The Chinese have found a middle ground as they always do. Smart cookies as usual. The scale of their engagement to stamp out extremism is chilling. Straight out of Nazi Germany sans the gas chambers and starvation.

Camps teaching life skills and a generation fearful to even confess their religion. Lessons that will be told as fables for generations that if one muslim hurts the han Chinese, the entire community will have to go through reeducation again. The best part is not a squeak from defenders of Islam like Imran or Iran or Saudi or Ertugrul reborn Erdogan. Just brutally efficient.

 

[rhony]

It's all about the narrative.

China obviously tops France in anti-Muslim activities, but their tight leash over their domestic and foreign press ensures that nothing leaks out.

On the other hand, even a cartoon causes these Tunisians and Chechens to react violently in France, and Pakistanis to block highways because everybody hears about it.

A tunisian or Chechen in China will be under constant surveillance. The day he buys a knife, he will be sent to a camp for reeducation instead of the sweet death he wished for. That's why nobody goes to China for revenge.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A tunisian or Chechen in China will be under constant surveillance. The day he buys a knife, he will be sent to a camp for reeducation instead of the sweet death he wished for. That's why nobody goes to China for revenge.

If a terrorist wanted to take revenge in China, wouldn't need to buy a knife, we have already seen one case where someone stole a knife from a shop and attempted to go on a killing spree. Then we have people driving cars into crowds of people. You could use a heavy object like a hammer or large stick to beat someone to death. Or even piece of rope, wire or cloth to strangle the victim.

It seems the Muslim world just doesn't see China as anti-Islam yet for some reason. Perhaps because China doesn't publicly run propaganda campaigns against the religion specifically like countries such as France.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

If a terrorist wanted to take revenge in China, wouldn't need to buy a knife, we have already seen one case where someone stole a knife from a shop and attempted to go on a killing spree. Then we have people driving cars into crowds of people. You could use a heavy object like a hammer or large stick to beat someone to death. Or even piece of rope, wire or cloth to strangle the victim.

It seems the Muslim world just doesn't see China as anti-Islam yet for some reason. Perhaps because China doesn't publicly run propaganda campaigns against the religion specifically like countries such as France.

Yet the majority of the muslim world if given a choice to live, would pick France over China 9 out of 10 times.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yet the majority of the muslim world if given a choice to live, would pick France over China 9 out of 10 times.

I would pick France over India to be honest, and I think that is the case for most Indians as well. France is a first world country ( just about) although already being in one, it has no appeal for me. China probably makes more sense for those who live closer.

 

[rhony]

If a terrorist wanted to take revenge in China, wouldn't need to buy a knife, we have already seen one case where someone stole a knife from a shop and attempted to go on a killing spree. Then we have people driving cars into crowds of people. You could use a heavy object like a hammer or large stick to beat someone to death. Or even piece of rope, wire or cloth to strangle the victim.

It seems the Muslim world just doesn't see China as anti-Islam yet for some reason. Perhaps because China doesn't publicly run propaganda campaigns against the religion specifically like countries such as France.

Have u seen the uighur documentary on yourtube? Any Uighur buying a knife will have their name associated with the barcode on the knife on record.

Muslim world sees China as Anti muslim but doesn't want to say anything. If France doles out a few billion, they won't be considered anti muslim either

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Have u seen the uighur documentary on yourtube? Any Uighur buying a knife will have their name associated with the barcode on the knife on record.

Muslim world sees China as Anti muslim but doesn't want to say anything. If France doles out a few billion, they won't be considered anti muslim either

Muslims only see France as anti-Muslim because they have officially supported abuse of the Prophet PBUH. It's pretty black and white. With China they can argue that they are only dealing with terrorists whether that's true or not. These small details might not impress you, but at govt level they count.

 

[rhony]

Muslims only see France as anti-Muslim because they have officially supported abuse of the Prophet PBUH. It's pretty black and white. With China they can argue that they are only dealing with terrorists whether that's true or not. These small details might not impress you, but at govt level they count.

Dealing with a million muslims is not dealing with just the terrorists. Quite the contrary. An entire generation is being retaught Islam, the communist version of islam in concentration camps. As I said, chinese are very crafty. They know how and when to spend their cash.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Dealing with a million muslims is not dealing with just the terrorists. Quite the contrary. An entire generation is being retaught Islam, the communist version of islam in concentration camps. As I said, chinese are very crafty. They know how and when to spend their cash.

Yes we must congratulate China on maintaining good relations with Muslim countries despite these allegations of mistreatment highlighted repeatedly by those would like to see discord between China and other Muslim nations. Well done China.

 

[Varun]

Yes we must congratulate China on maintaining good relations with Muslim countries despite these allegations of mistreatment highlighted repeatedly by those would like to see discord between China and other Muslim nations. Well done China.

Money talks. China buys oil by the boatloads (literally) from the Arab countries plus Iran, so that's them sorted. Pakistan has been bought off through CPEC, so they turn a blind eye. They can soft-bully their way regionally to the Malaysians and Indonesians trade wise, and the other Muslim countries don't really matter.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Money talks. China buys oil by the boatloads (literally) from the Arab countries plus Iran, so that's them sorted. Pakistan has been bought off through CPEC, so they turn a blind eye. They can soft-bully their way regionally to the Malaysians and Indonesians trade wise, and the other Muslim countries don't really matter.

Money should talk, it has always been an important commodity. One of the reasons why Pakistan among other Muslim countries will stay on good terms with China is that the Belt Road project will do good things for Pakistan's economy. I have always thought India should have sought similar avenues to work in partnership with Pakistan given they have a lot in common, and obviously share the border, but seems like India don't really understand the art of the deal.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

I know you don’t have an answer, but I am still tempted to ask. You say that China is a godless state that treats all religions equally.

If that is the case, why don’t they have concentration camps for members of other religions?

You also state that they have detained the Uyghur Muslims not because of religion but because they are separatists/anti nationals.

If that is the case, why is China targeting their religion? In 2017, they banned the Uyghur men from growing beards, they banned women from wearing veils and they also destroyed mosques.

You are detained if you are found reciting the Quran and you are forced to renounce your religion.

Is it blatantly obvious that China has a problem with not only separatism and anti-nationalism but also Islam?

Isn’t it blatantly obvious that China thinks that these people are deriving their anti-nationalism from Islam?

I hope these questions are not overly complicated for you. I don’t expect an intelligent answer though.

Calm down, you are simply ignorant of Chinese history and current political issues.

Have you heard of the Tibetans? Its estimated hundreds of thousands have been killed, thousands of monastries destroyed and currently thousands are imprisoned in camps/jails. FYI, they are not Muslims.

There is no debate on this topic unless one is using anti-Muslim bigotry to justify their weak arguments.

China treats all religions the same, if they look for a sepratist agenda they will be dealt with. This is the reason why MOST Muslims in China are not being targetted in any way. Meanwhile France wants to use I.D on Muslim children.

 

[KingKhanWC]

France is supporting some stable Muslim nations in defeating other Muslims who want to impose medieval theocracy. Perhaps you would prefer it if the French did not bother, and Muslim nation after nation falls to the medievalists.

Interesting that you think the Holocaust only victimised Jews, when 60% of the murdered were not Jewish.

Holocaust denial in Germany and France is a crime because those countries confront their past, and say “never again”. Anyone who tries to dilute the Holocaust faces penalties because they weaken society’s resolve.

France is causing mayhem and conflict. French dont care about Muslims but are trying to hang to their colonial backward mindset. Bombing children is not helping anyone.

Holocaust is linked to Jews, we both know this.

A historical event should be open to critical dissucsion esp from a nation who pretends its the bastian of free speech. Hyprocisy is hillarious from the extremist French nation.