China's 're-education camps' for Uighur Muslims in Xinjian region

[MenInG]

Thousands of mosques in Xinjiang have been damaged or destroyed in just three years, leaving fewer in the region than at any time since the Cultural Revolution, according to a report on Chinese oppression of Muslim minorities.

The revelations are contained in an expansive data project by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), which used satellite imagery and on-the-ground reporting to map the extensive and continuing construction of detention camps and destruction of cultural and religious sites in the north-western region.

The thinktank said Chinese government claims that there were more than 24,000 mosques in Xinjiang and that it was committed to protecting and respecting religious beliefs were not supported by the findings, and estimated that fewer than 15,000 mosques remained standing – with more than half of those damaged to some extent.

“This is the lowest number since the Cultural Revolution, when fewer than 3,000 mosques remained,” the report said.

It found around two-thirds of the area’s mosques were affected, and about 50% of protected cultural sites had been damaged or destroyed, including the total destruction of Ordam mazar (shrine), an ancient site of pilgrimage dating back to the 10th century.

Since 2017, an estimated 30% of mosques had been demolished, and another 30% damaged in some way, including the removal of architectural features such as minarets or domes, the report said. While the majority of sites remained as empty lots, others were turned into roads and car parks or converted for agricultural use, the report said.

Some were razed to the ground and rebuilt at a fraction of their former size, including Kashgar’s Grand Mosque, built in 1540 and granted the second-highest level of historic protection by Chinese authorities.

Areas that received large numbers of tourists, including the capital, Urumqi, and the city of Kashgar, were outliers, with little destruction recorded, but ASPI said reports from visitors to the cities suggested the majority of mosques were padlocked or had been converted to other uses.

ASPI said it compared recent satellite images with the precise coordinates of more than 900 officially registered religious sites which were recorded prior to the 2017 crackdown, then used sample-based methodology to make “statistically robust estimates” cross-referenced with census data.

Beijing has faced consistent accusations – backed by mounting evidence – of mass human rights abuses in Xinjiang, including the internment of more than a million Uighurs and Turkic Muslims in detention camps, the existence of which it initially denied before claiming they were training and re-education centres. The camps and other accusations of abuse, forced labour, forced sterilisation of women, mass surveillance and restrictions on religious and cultural beliefs have been labelled as cultural genocide by observers.

Beijing strenuously denies the accusations and says its policies in Xinjiang are to counter terrorism and religious extremism, and that its labour programmes are to alleviate poverty and are not forced.

The ASPI report said: “Alongside other coercive efforts to re-engineer Uighur social and cultural life by transforming or eliminating Uighurs’ language, music, homes and even diets, the Chinese government’s policies are actively erasing and altering key elements of their tangible cultural heritage.”

Interventions on minority ethnic cultures and communities have increased under the leadership of Xi Jinping. In recent weeks it was revealed authorities have also vastly expanded a forced labour programme in Tibet, and policies to reduce the use of the Mongolian language in Inner Mongolia. Government terminology frequently describes a need to transform the “backwards thinking” of the targeted cultural groups.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-mosques-destroyed-damaged-china-report-finds

 

[Gabbar Singh]

A reminder that dozens of countries actually went to the trouble of writing to the UN human rights council to praise China’s efforts in Xinjiang. It’s one thing to stay silent but to actually go out your way to praise these actions?

“Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalisation measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centres,” the letter said.

The letter said security had returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there had been safeguarded

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-c...-backing-chinas-xinjiang-policy-idUKKCN1U721L

 

[JaDed]

A reminder that dozens of countries actually went to the trouble of writing to the UN human rights council to praise China’s efforts in Xinjiang. It’s one thing to stay silent but to actually go out your way to praise these actions?



https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-c...-backing-chinas-xinjiang-policy-idUKKCN1U721L

Atleast 80% of those countries would support India's efforts in Kashmir does it matter anymore?

 

[Abdullah719]

US senators seek to declare Uighur ‘genocide’ by China in bipartisan push

US senators have sought to declare that China is committing genocide against Uighurs and other Turkic-speaking Muslims, a step that could increase pressure on Beijing over the plight of an estimated one million-plus people being held in detention camps.

The text states that China’s campaign “against Uighurs, ethnic Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and members of other Muslim minority groups in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region constitutes genocide”.

The resolution was introduced on Tuesday by senators across the political spectrum, although it is unlikely to move immediately as the Senate is out of session until after next week’s election.

Senator John Cornyn, a Republican who sponsored it, said: “This resolution recognises these crimes for what they are and is the first step toward holding China accountable for their monstrous actions.

Senator Jeff Merkley, a Democrat, said the resolution would show that the US “can’t stay silent”. “China’s assault on Uighurs and other Muslim minority groups – escalating surveillance, imprisonment, torture and forced ‘re-education camps’ – is genocide, pure and simple,” he said.

Other co-sponsors include Marco Rubio, a close ally of Donald Trump on foreign policy, and Robert Menendez, the top Democrat on the Senate foreign relations committee.

Rights groups say that more than a million Uighurs languish in camps in the Xinjiang region as Beijing attempts to forcibly integrate the community and erode its Islamic heritage.

China has denied the numbers and describes the camps as vocational centres that teach skills to prevent the allure of Islamic radicalism following a series of attacks.

Trump’s administration has decried the situation in Xinjiang and placed sanctions on the Communist party’s top official there, Chen Quanguo, but has stopped just short of declaring genocide.

Robert O’Brien, Trump’s national security adviser, said this month that “if not genocide, something close” to it is taking place in Xinjiang.

Secretary of state Mike Pompeo said in an interview on Tuesday with news site the Print on a visit to India that China’s actions “remind us of what happened in the 1930s in Germany”.

The campaign of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, who is leading Trump in pre-election polls, has called China’s actions genocide and vowed a tougher response.

Successive US administrations have been reluctant to use the term genocide in situations across the world, cautious about legal implications at home and abroad.

Olivia Enos, a senior policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation who studies human rights in Asia, said a genocide resolution on Xinjiang could put pressure on the administration to follow suit and pave the way for additional sanctions.

The UN convention on genocide, drafted in the aftermath of the Holocaust, obligates states to prevent and punish the “odious scourge”. It defines genocide to include actions such as killing as well as preventing births “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”.

A data-driven study by German researcher Adrian Zenz found that China has forcibly sterilised large numbers of Uighur women and pressured them to abort pregnancies that exceed birth quotas.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-uighur-genocide-by-china-in-bipartisan-push

 

[MenInG]

It has been more than two years since Sayragul Sautbay was released from a re-education camp in China’s westernmost region of Xinjiang. Yet the mother of two still suffers from nightmares and flashbacks from the “humiliation and violence” she endured while she was detained.

Sautbay, a medical doctor and educator who now lives in Sweden, recently published a book in which she detailed her ordeal, including witnessing beatings, alleged sexual abuse and forced sterilisation.

In a recent interview with Al Jazeera, she shed more light on other indignities to which the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities were subjected, including the consumption of pork, a meat that is strictly prohibited in Islam.

“Every Friday, we were forced to eat pork meat,” Sautbay said. “They have intentionally chosen a day that is holy for the Muslims. And if you reject it, you would get a harsh punishment.”

She added that the policy was designed to inflict shame and guilt on the Muslim detainees and that it was “difficult to explain in words” the emotions she had every time she ate the meat.

“I was feeling like I was a different person. All around me got dark. It was really difficult to accept,” she said.

Testimonies from Sautbay and others provide an indication of how China has sought to crack down in Xinjiang by taking aim at the cultural and religious beliefs of the mostly Muslim ethnic minority, implementing widespread surveillance and – from about 2017 – opening a network of camps it has justified as necessary to counter “extremism”.

But documents made available to Al Jazeera show that agricultural development has also become part of what German anthropologist and Uighur scholar, Adrian Zenz, says is a policy of “secularisation”.

According to Zenz, the documents and state-approved news articles support talk within Uighur communities that there is an “active” effort to promote and expand pig farming in the region.

In November 2019, Xinjiang’s top administrator, Shohrat Zakir, that the autonomous region would be turned into a “pig-raising hub”; a move that Uighurs say is an affront to their way of life.

One news article published in May that Zenz recorded describes a new farm in the southern Kashgar area, which aims to produce 40,000 pigs every year.

The project is expected to occupy a 25,000-square-metre (82-square-foot) area in an industrial park in Kashgar’s Konaxahar county, renamed Shufu, according to the Chinese-language website, Sina.

The deal was formally signed on April 23 this year, the first day of Ramadan, the Muslim fasting month and states that the pig farming is not meant for export purposes, but instead “to ensure the supply of pork” in Kashgar.

The Uighurs make up 90 percent of the population in the city and the surrounding area.

“This is part of the attempt to completely eradicate the culture and religion of the people in Xinjiang,” Zenz told Al Jazeera.

“It is part of the strategy of secularisation, of turning the Uighurs secular and indoctrinating them to follow the communist party and become agnostic or atheist,” he added.

‘Three evils’
Beijing has defended its policies in the region, saying the approach is needed to fight the “three evils of extremism, separatism and terrorism”, following deadly riots in the regional capital Urumqi in 2009.

It has denied the existence of the re-education camps in which the United Nations has said more than one million people have been held, instead saying it operates vocational centres that allow it to “retrain” the Uighur population and teach them new skills.

Like Sautbay, Uighur businesswoman Zumret Dawut has first-hand experience of detention. She was picked up in March 2018 in Urumqi, the city where she was born.

For two months, Dawut said authorities demanded explanations about her links to Pakistan, her husband’s homeland. They questioned her as well about how many children she had, and whether or not they had studied religion and read the Quran.

She says she was humiliated repeatedly and on one occasion was slapped in the face with a rolled paper after displeasing her interrogator.

Another time, she had to beg the camp’s male officers to allow her to go to the restroom, only for them to leave her handcuffed and watch her the whole time she was in the toilet.

She too says she was served pork repeatedly.

“When you sit in a concentration camp, you do not decide whether to eat, or not to eat. To be alive, we had to eat the meat served to us,” she told Al Jazeera through an interpreter.

She and several other female detainees were sterilised to prevent them from having more children. The controversy was reported earlier this year by the Associated Press news agency, drawing widespread condemnation.

Starting them young
Sautbay, who was from the town of Ili, ended up in another camp after authorities learned that her husband and their two children had left for neighbouring Kazakhstan in early 2016.

She had originally planned to join them but by then authorities had confiscated her passport and that of other civil servants.

Because of her medical background and experience in running preschools, Sautbay was assigned to teach her fellow detainees the Chinese language, allowing her to closely observe what was happening to the Uighurs.

She says the practice of making Muslims eat pork went beyond the detention camps.

In one school in Altay, a city in northern Xinjiang, students were also forced to eat the meat and when many refused and demonstrated against their school administrators, the government sent in soldiers to intervene, Sautbay said.

The Xinjiang government also started an initiative called “free food” for Muslim children in kindergarten, serving them pork dishes without their knowledge, she added.

The idea was that by starting them young, the Muslim children would acquire a taste for non-halal food.

“China is using and will use different tactics to force Uighurs and other Muslim population to eat pork,” Sautbay said.

Last year, the Italy-based AsiaNews alleged that during the Chinese Lunar New Year, which happened to be the “Year of the Pig”, government officials reportedly delivered pork directly to Muslim households in Ili, and insisted that Uighurs decorate their homes for the festive season.

‘Normalising’ the forbidden
Arslan Hidayat, a Turkey-based Uighur rights activist and secretary-general of the Uyghur Revival Association, told Al Jazeera that whether it is breeding pigs, or eating pork and drinking alcohol, the Chinese government is attempting to “normalise” prohibited practices for Muslims in Xinjiang.

in the region would be required to “operate normally” during Ramadan, in contrast to previous years when those same establishments were closed during the month-long ritual of fasting.

According to the Xinjiang government website, which published the memorandum containing the provision on Muslim food establishments, the directive was meant to ensure “normal life order during Ramadan.”

But Zenz believes the directive meant the government wanted to make sure “Uighurs eat and don’t fast” during the day.

He also shared two other official documents, written in the Chinese language, which showed the government in Kashgar allotting money for food for their mostly Muslim Uighur staff during Ramadan.

Taken together, this constitutes a pattern of the Chinese government carrying out a “war against halal”, Zenz noted referring to the term used in Islam to describe acceptable food and other daily practices.

In 2018, the Reuters news agency also reported on an “anti-halal campaign” in Urumqi “to stop Islam penetrating secular life and fuelling ‘extremism'”.

‘Radicalised’
Speaking to Al Jazeera about China’s overall policy towards Uighurs, Einar Tangen, a China affairs expert based in Beijing, said that the Chinese government “feels strongly” that many of Xinjiang’s residents have been “radicalised” in recent years.

In Beijing’s view, the only way to address the situation in Xinjiang is to give residents “the education that they should have gotten when they were younger.” Thus the “training camps”.

“This is what they [government] say, and they are moving people through this education camps. They teach them skills, language, history, and that’s their way of dealing with it.”

But the activist Hidayat notes that even non-observant Uighurs, many of them government employees who had tried to adopt a lifestyle similar to the Han Chinese, had not escaped punishment. They too were sent to the camps, by virtue of their racial identity alone, he said.

Tangen, however, pointed out that the economic situation in Xinjiang had “improved dramatically over the years” and people there were better off.

“People live longer. They have better opportunities,” Tangen noted.

“So there is always this tension between what the West says is your human rights, to speak freely, do what you want, and the idea that without economic opportunity and food on the table, rights don’t mean a lot.”

With regards to the specific allegations of forcing Muslims to eat pork, Tangen said that he did not know whether the information was “factual”, but if it was taking place it was not the result of “central government policy.”

The documents seen by Al Jazeera are among a cache that also detailed the alleged sterilisation programme reported by AP.

“I am sure that there are things that are happening that should not be happening. But unless I have some of the facts, it is impossible” to determine the veracity of the allegations, Tangen said.

In a huge bureaucracy like that of China, there may be “some people” who might commit abuses, he said.

“The key is to find these people and punish them.”

The Chinese government has had little to say about the issue, although various state-controlled publications questioned the credibility of both Sautbay and Dawut when they made allegations of other abuses in Xinjiang.

Beijing has also accused Zenz, the German anthropologist, of “fabricating facts and falsifying data” and pointed to his links to “right-wing” factions of the US government. China observers also raised questions about his “sudden expertise” on Xinjiang and the Uighurs.

Al Jazeera has sought an official response from China’s foreign ministry but has yet to receive a reply. It has also requested comment from the Institute for Human Rights at China University of Political Science and Law, but it had yet to respond at the time of publication.

Dawut, the Uighur businesswoman now living in exile in the US, says she stands by her story of what happened to her inside the camps.

Meanwhile, Sautbay, the Kazakh medical doctor, said that by sharing her ordeal, she hoped to be a voice for those who remain in captivity.

“The days I have spent in the concentration camp will not be erased from my memory, and I have to live with it my entire life,” she said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...o-eat-pork-as-hog-farming-in-xinjiang-expands

 

[sweep_shot]

Football star Griezmann severs ties with Huawei over Uighurs

French football star Antoine Griezmann says he is ending his sponsorship deal with Huawei after claims that the Chinese telecoms firm was involved in the surveillance of Muslim Uighurs.

A recent report alleged Huawei had tested facial recognition software that could help police detect Uighurs.

Huawei has strongly denied the claims and told the BBC it was "saddened" by Griezmann's decision.

China has faced a barrage of criticism over its treatment of the minority.

It is believed that the Chinese government has detained up to a million Uighurs in Xinjiang province in what the state defines as "re-education camps". Beijing has consistently denied mistreatment and says the camps are designed to stamp out terrorism and improve employment opportunities.

Griezmann, 29, has been a brand ambassador for Huawei since 2017 and has featured prominently in the company's advertising in France.

"Following strong suspicions that Huawei has contributed to the development of a 'Uighurs alert' through the use of facial recognition software, I am immediately ending my partnership with the company," he said on Instagram.

In a report on Tuesday, US-based surveillance research firm IPVM said Huawei had been involved in testing facial recognition software in China that the authorities could use to detect Uighurs.

IPVM said it had obtained documents that allegedly showed Huawei tested software by Chinese firm Megvii in its video cloud system in 2018. Megvii is best known for its facial recognition algorithms.

A Huawei spokesperson told the BBC that "the language used in the document" referred to in the report was "completely unacceptable".

"It is not compatible with the values of Huawei. Our technologies are not designed to identify ethnic groups. Non-discrimination is at the heart of our values as a company."

On Griezmann's post, the spokesperson said: "Huawei is obviously saddened by the decision of Mr Griezmann to end his relationship with the company.

"We would like to extend an invitation to speak to him personally, to explain the work that is currently being done at the highest level, inside the company, to address the issues of human rights, equality, and discrimination at all levels, and to reassure him, and all our customers and partners, that Huawei takes these concerns very seriously."

China's foreign ministry, in a statement to US business news channel CNBC, called the IPVM report "slander".

Griezmann - a member of the France team that won the 2018 World Cup in Russia - is not the first international football star to make a stand over the treatment of Uighurs.

Earlier this year, Arsenal and ex-Germany player Mesut Özil called Uighurs "warriors who resist persecution" and criticised both China and those who remain silent in response to the alleged mistreatment.

China responded furiously, with state TV pulling an Arsenal fixture from TV schedules. Özil was also removed from a Chinese version of the Pro Evolution Soccer video game.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55265989.

 

[Tubs]

Remember guys, they're only attacking the separatists, it's absolutely nothing to do with religion! The forced eating of pork and drinking of alcohol is common practice with prisoners in China, as are the concentration camps.

Isn't that right [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

UK failure to impose sanctions on China over Uighurs ‘painful and hurtful’

The British government’s failure to include Chinese officials in the latest round of its “Magnitsky Sanctions” on human rights abuses has been described as “painful and hurtful” by a leading Uighur activist.

The UK’s Global Human Rights Sanctions, announced on Thursday, World Human Rights Day, targeted officials from Venezuela, Russia, The Gambia, and Pakistan. Those named, said foreign secretary Dominic Raab, faced asset freezes and travel bans, adding: “Global Britain will stand up for democracy, human rights and the rule of law as a force for good in the world.”

But there were no sanctions against the Beijing government over mass abuse in Xinjiang, where up to 1 million Uighur Muslims have been sent to prison camps and the community subjected to draconian laws with religious and cultural practices suppressed.

Rahima Mahmut, the UK project director at the World Uighur Congress and an advisor at the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, said that Britain’s lack of action was the legacy of David Cameron’s government, which turned a blind eye to Beijing’s malpractice in the hope of ushering in a “golden era” of trade.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-uk-uighur-muslims-sanctions-raab-b1769633.html

Looks like Venezuala and Pakistan's human rights abuses are considered worse than China's. Are we exaggerrating the extent of Chinese abuse?

 

[The Viper]

ICC asks for more evidence on Uighur genocide claims

The international criminal court (ICC) has asked for more evidence before it will be willing to open an investigation into claims of genocide against Uighur people by China, but has said it will keep the file open for such further evidence to be submitted.

With Beijing not a signatory to the ICC, those bringing the claim of genocide have pointed to the alleged forcing of Uighur people from Tajikistan and Cambodia into China as evidence. Both countries are signatories to the Rome statute setting up the ICC.

The expected ICC decision, already relayed to lawyers, is that there is still insufficient evidence to warrant opening a full-scale investigation. Those bringing the claim say extra evidence is already being submitted to the ICC in The Hague, and some of the initial evidence gathering had been delayed by the inability to travel to collect documentation because of the coronavirus pandemic.

The ICC is expected to make its ruling known in the next few days ahead of the assembly of state parties taking place in The Hague from 14-16 December. The complaint was submitted in July on behalf of the East Turkistan Government in Exile and the East Turkistan National Awakening Movement.

The further evidence needs to address additional instances of the rounding up of Uighurs abroad by the Chinese government, and of it forcing them back into China, specifically from Tajikistan and Cambodia, as well as cases of deportation from China into Tajikistan.

The legal team said it had this week submitted a further communication to the prosecutor outlining this evidence. The ICC, already under attack from the US, will have to weigh the politics of opening a complaint against the world’s other superpower.

The complaint is the first of its kind, and the only way that Chinese officials could be criminally investigated and prosecuted at the international level for the alleged abuses carried out against Uighur people.

Although China is not a signatory to the Rome statute, the decisions of ICC pre-trial chambers in two previous cases in 2018 and 2019 concerning crimes against Rohingya people in Bangladesh and Myanmar decided that the court may exercise jurisdiction over international crimes when part of the criminal conduct takes place on the territory of a state that is a signatory to the ICC. Although Myanmar is not a signatory to the ICC, crimes against the Rohingya were committed in Bangladesh, a party to the ICC.

The latest complaint makes clear that the alleged crimes committed against the Uighur people in north-west China have been widespread and systematic, including people being subjected to imprisonment and torture as well as forced birth control, sterilisations and marriages.

The lawyers claim the torture has taken place on a mass scale and all examples should be investigated in order to ascertain whether the alleged perpetrators can be charged and tried.

Rodney Dixon QC, the lead barrister, said: “This is a very important moment. The millions of Uighur victims who are suffering terrible atrocities at the hand of the Chinese government officials need justice and we are hopeful that the ICC will take up this investigation. We will be providing highly relevant evidence that will permit this to happen in the coming months. We are engaging with the office of the prosecutor as these proceedings go on with the aim of opening a full investigation.”

Chinese officials have repeatedly dismissed the claims as slanderous and recently said the government had lifted more than 1 billion people out of poverty by “pursuing a people-centred vision on human rights”.

The submission includes the names of senior Chinese officials, including the president, Xi Jinping, who it says should be charged for planning and directing the campaign.

At a press conference earlier this month, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman, Wang Wenbin, said: “The Chinese people’s rights to speech and religious freedom, as well as the ethnic minorities’ right to participate in the governance of state affairs, are protected according to law.”

The bar for proving genocide is high owing to the need for a court to be satisfied there is proof of intent.

Separately, the UK foreign affairs select committee has written to the Foreign Office to ask if it will refer the case to the ICC or alternatively give its own opinion of whether genocide has been committed.

It claims in a letter to the UK foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, there is evidence of forced sterilisation and large-scale separation of Uighur and other minority ethnic children from their parents. The letter adds: “It is difficult to conceive of a situation in which these occurrences would not be intentional, or how these actions would not demonstrate the intended destruction of a group.”

The chair of the select committee, Tom Tugendhat, said he was “confident that a court ruling would be a powerful step towards galvanising the international community to bring an end to these atrocities”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...nal-criminal-icc-china-uighur-genocide-claims

 

[KingKhanWC]

Remember guys, they're only attacking the separatists, it's absolutely nothing to do with religion! The forced eating of pork and drinking of alcohol is common practice with prisoners in China, as are the concentration camps.

Isn't that right [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] ?

Ive already schooled Mamoon, please search for those replies.

But to save you time, thousands of monestries have been destroyed and thousands of tibetans are still in prison with similar tactics against their religion.

China treats all seperatists the same, it's no attack on Islam and Mulsims only, something an ignorant schoolboy would suggest.

 

[Tubs]

Ive already schooled Mamoon, please search for those replies.

But to save you time, thousands of monestries have been destroyed and thousands of tibetans are still in prison with similar tactics against their religion.

China treats all seperatists the same, it's no attack on Islam and Mulsims only, something an ignorant schoolboy would suggest.

Force-feeding pork and alcohol, re-writing the Quran, destroying mosques. Oh, so now you say it's not just Muslims? First you were denying it entirely saying it was just 'Western media'. Why are you so okay with an attack on Islam when you're usually such a champion of Islamic freedom, talking about how you'd break the jaws of Hinduvta thugs? Why are you so submissive to China?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Force-feeding pork and alcohol, re-writing the Quran, destroying mosques. Oh, so now you say it's not just Muslims? First you were denying it entirely saying it was just 'Western media'. Why are you so okay with an attack on Islam when you're usually such a champion of Islamic freedom, talking about how you'd break the jaws of Hinduvta thugs? Why are you so submissive to China?

You are an atheist right? Why do you care about jaws of hindutva thugs being broken?

 

[shaykh]

Force-feeding pork and alcohol, re-writing the Quran, destroying mosques. Oh, so now you say it's not just Muslims? First you were denying it entirely saying it was just 'Western media'. Why are you so okay with an attack on Islam when you're usually such a champion of Islamic freedom, talking about how you'd break the jaws of Hinduvta thugs? Why are you so submissive to China?

Tbf the position isn’t even remotely original ...the mistake ppl make is presume positions these guys take are pro-Muslim positions..they are simply anti-India or anti-Israel or anti-US etc...

If it was the US putting them into concentration camps, sending men to rape their women, sterilising the women and stealing their children then it would be a big thing and the Muslim thing becomes relevant ...

Since it’s an ally China doing this then the answers become whataboutisms or denial lol...the amusing thing about the response to you is it’s they mistreat Christians too as if that somehow minimises what goes on ...

The only thing that makes Muslims in India important is its Hindus mistreating them ...or India...

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Tbf the position isn’t even remotely original ...the mistake ppl make is presume positions these guys take are pro-Muslim positions..they are simply anti-India or anti-Israel or anti-US etc...

If it was the US putting them into concentration camps, sending men to rape their women, sterilising the women and stealing their children then it would be a big thing and the Muslim thing becomes relevant ...

Since it’s an ally China doing this then the answers become whataboutisms or denial lol...the amusing thing about the response to you is it’s they mistreat Christians too as if that somehow minimises what goes on ...

The only thing that makes Muslims in India important is its Hindus mistreating them ...or India...

I like how you sneaked "anti-Israel" in there.

Israel is the modern Nazi state, by all means.

Heck, one can defend by saying that Nazi animals of Germany were on their own soil exterminating "Jew invaders".

Israel literally invaded a land and start its very own Nazi campaign. Good try their buddy, but don't misguide people.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In Xinjiang, all citizens enjoy the same rights. It is a completely independent choice of each citizen to believe in, or not believe in, any religion. <a href="https://t.co/7kACz4uYgm">https://t.co/7kACz4uYgm</a></p>— Chinese Embassy in US (@ChineseEmbinUS) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/1337067501197422594?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Perhaps the Pakistan NSA was correct and poor China is just being demonised for nothing.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On issue of 1.5 million <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Muslim?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Muslim</a> Uighars detained in camps in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/China?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#China</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a>’s <a href="https://twitter.com/YusufMoeed?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@YusufMoeed</a> says: We are 100% satisfied it is a non-issue. The West can say, what it wants, I can say to you as a responsible official that we know everything about <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Uighers?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Uighers</a> & it is a non-issue.</p>— Mehreen Zahra-Malik (@mehreenzahra) <a href="https://twitter.com/mehreenzahra/status/1315997426587561984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mamoon]

Ive already schooled Mamoon, please search for those replies.

But to save you time, thousands of monestries have been destroyed and thousands of tibetans are still in prison with similar tactics against their religion.

China treats all seperatists the same, it's no attack on Islam and Mulsims only, something an ignorant schoolboy would suggest.

You didn’t school anyone; you only exposed your embarrassing hypocrisy.

You claim China doesn’t have a problem with Islam, but then I asked you why they are insulting Islam to contain the separatist movement in Xinjiang and you had no answer.

The reality is that the fascist regime in China considers Islam to be the source of the separatist movement in Xinjiang.

That is why they have bulldozed mosques, banned beards, recitation of Quran as well as fasting.

That is why they have put them in “re-education” camps - they are “re-educating” them to become less devout Muslims.

Your defense that China is not anti-Islam because they are doing the same with Tibetan Buddhists is the worst defense/justification I have ever seen.

At best, it only shows that China hates BOTH Islam and Buddhism, and as an online warrior of ummah, you should have the courage to criticize China’s hatred for Islam.

Similarly, as a fake custodian of the ummah and Twitter warrior, Imran Khan should stop mumbling when put on the spotlight by international media and criticize China.

It is of course understandable why he cannot do it because China is holding us by our balls, but the problem is that the world does not take our narrative and pleas on Kashmir seriously as we continue to show our double-standards and hypocrisy regarding China.

Before you say that China does not hate Islam and Buddhism or any religion in particular and they only have a problem with separatists.

However, that does not explain or justify why they have to insult Islam by demolishing mosques, banning beards, fasting and Quran recitation etc.

Is Chinese state so weak that they cannot suppress an independence movement of a few million people without insulting their religion?

Doesn’t China have the largest army in the world by a mile and that also happens to be one of the most powerful and technologically advanced as well?

How come they cannot deal with a separatist movement of a few million people without targeting their religion?

Aren’t you disappointed?

 

[Tubs]

You are an atheist right? Why do you care about jaws of hindutva thugs being broken?

Is that really what you took from my comment? If Hinduvta thugs are attacking Muslims, I'd be very happy for the ones being oppressed to fight back and defend themselves. My point was that the other poster is so vocal and chest thumpy about how he'd fight back against Hinduvta, the far-right, etc if they're being anti-Muslim, but says nothing about Papa China.

 

[Tubs]

Looks like Hell fire awaits for a lot of Pakistanis in their after life for denying their muslim brethren

Ummahh

..

So what do you propose they do? Start a full-scale war on China? I understand why Pakistan are staying out of it, they have to do what's best for their country. It is a terrible human-rights issue, but there isn't much that they can do. I also very much dislike that it's seen as a 'Muslim' issue rather than a human rights one. I feel very strongly for the Palestinian cause, even though I'm an ex-Muslim atheists and that the majority of Palestinians would hate me for it (a Palestinian man was thrown in jail for being openly atheist, he fled to France, and people wanted him to be lynched), but still, they still have the right not to be bombed by illegal occupants of their land.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Is that really what you took from my comment? If Hinduvta thugs are attacking Muslims, I'd be very happy for the ones being oppressed to fight back and defend themselves. My point was that the other poster is so vocal and chest thumpy about how he'd fight back against Hinduvta, the far-right, etc if they're being anti-Muslim, but says nothing about Papa China.

You, me and KingKhan are all British right? If we were really that bothered about Chinese oppression of Muslims I am sure we would wage war to save them same as we did to save the Jews from Nazi Germany. Do you think it's time for we British to declare war on China?

 

[Romali_rotti]

So what do you propose they do? Start a full-scale war on China? I understand why Pakistan are staying out of it, they have to do what's best for their country. It is a terrible human-rights issue, but there isn't much that they can do. I also very much dislike that it's seen as a 'Muslim' issue rather than a human rights one. I feel very strongly for the Palestinian cause, even though I'm an ex-Muslim atheists and that the majority of Palestinians would hate me for it (a Palestinian man was thrown in jail for being openly atheist, he fled to France, and people wanted him to be lynched), but still, they still have the right not to be bombed by illegal occupants of their land.

I have always empathized with the Pakistani leadership, they have no choice, they sold their soul to the ultimate Evil (Saitan) in the form of China due to the country being in tatters financially. However I do not feel the same way with the Pakistani public, like that dumb fool on twitter, Mehreen Zahra Malik. Pakistani people should be able to speak up against China, especially on a messageboard, internet etc, yet you will see only see a few Pakistanis utter a word against China, on the contrary more will support China closing their eyes on all the evil happening in the concentration camp in China....

Lets say Allah was the one and only all mighty (I do not believe so) however for arguments sake lets say it is that way, do you believe Allah will look at Pakistanis and say YES, I will forgive you for the ignoring the genocide and mutilation of the Ugyur Muslims in China as you supported the Palestinians and Kashmiris.... God is not going to discriminate.

Per the Quran, Hellfire awaits a lot of Pakistanis..

 

[Romali_rotti]

I also very much dislike that it's seen as a 'Muslim' issue rather than a human rights one. .

Yes you are correct, it is crimes against humanity, what is happening in China. However Pakistani Muslims will only look at it through a religious angle, one of their biggest drawbacks, so the only way to make them see the light is to use the religious angle.

For the Indian muslims, you will see Pakistani muslim Ummah coming out strong (agendas, agendas, not that they care for the Indian muslims, however they have their agenda) however for what's happening on the opposite side of their neighborhood like the concentration camp in China, you can hardly get any Pakistanis to at least show any kind of concern from a religious angle either, because they just don't care, what a bunch of frauds ..

 

[KingKhanWC]

You didn’t school anyone; you only exposed your embarrassing hypocrisy.

You claim China doesn’t have a problem with Islam, but then I asked you why they are insulting Islam to contain the separatist movement in Xinjiang and you had no answer.

The reality is that the fascist regime in China considers Islam to be the source of the separatist movement in Xinjiang.

That is why they have bulldozed mosques, banned beards, recitation of Quran as well as fasting.

That is why they have put them in “re-education” camps - they are “re-educating” them to become less devout Muslims.

Your defense that China is not anti-Islam because they are doing the same with Tibetan Buddhists is the worst defense/justification I have ever seen.

At best, it only shows that China hates BOTH Islam and Buddhism, and as an online warrior of ummah, you should have the courage to criticize China’s hatred for Islam.

Similarly, as a fake custodian of the ummah and Twitter warrior, Imran Khan should stop mumbling when put on the spotlight by international media and criticize China.

It is of course understandable why he cannot do it because China is holding us by our balls, but the problem is that the world does not take our narrative and pleas on Kashmir seriously as we continue to show our double-standards and hypocrisy regarding China.

Before you say that China does not hate Islam and Buddhism or any religion in particular and they only have a problem with separatists.

However, that does not explain or justify why they have to insult Islam by demolishing mosques, banning beards, fasting and Quran recitation etc.

Is Chinese state so weak that they cannot suppress an independence movement of a few million people without insulting their religion?

Doesn’t China have the largest army in the world by a mile and that also happens to be one of the most powerful and technologically advanced as well?

How come they cannot deal with a separatist movement of a few million people without targeting their religion?

Aren’t you disappointed?

lol. More rabble.

The point is simple enough for a schoolboy to understand.

China doesnt discriminate targetting one religion over another. Which is why they have destroyed thousands of monesteries, attacked Bhuddism and everything related to it.

They will do the same to anyone from any religion who has sepratists agendas.

The hypocrisy is from you, supporting occupation of Kashmir but changing your tune here.

We dont even know your real background so cant comment more in context with your views but you are attacking China because the dragon breathes heavy down on India. The same goes for all other Indian posters on this thread showing fake empahty lol.

 

[IAJ]

May Allah help muslims, be it in Kashmir, Palestine, China or any other country where they are abused. The biggest issue is that most muslim leaders in the last century have just focussed on their own benefits instead of building education systems, finance systems etc. Now they are in a mess and become so dependent on others that they don’t have courage to speak put loudly.

 

[Mamoon]

lol. More rabble.

The point is simple enough for a schoolboy to understand.

China doesnt discriminate targetting one religion over another. Which is why they have destroyed thousands of monesteries, attacked Bhuddism and everything related to it.

They will do the same to anyone from any religion who has sepratists agendas.

The hypocrisy is from you, supporting occupation of Kashmir but changing your tune here.

We dont even know your real background so cant comment more in context with your views but you are attacking China because the dragon breathes heavy down on India. The same goes for all other Indian posters on this thread showing fake empahty lol.

You are still evading the question. I think I should put you out of your misery but I am tempting to ask again.

Why does China have to insult religion to suppress a separatist movement? It is clearly not simple enough for a schoolboy to understand.

And I am not attacking China. I couldn’t care less about what happens in Uyghur Muslims just like I couldn’t care less about what happens in Kashmir. I am attacking the hypocrisy of people like you and our PM who are vocal in their criticism of India but will not utter a word to condemn the atrocities of China.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are still evading the question. I think I should put you out of your misery but I am tempting to ask again.

Why does China have to insult religion to suppress a separatist movement? It is clearly not simple enough for a schoolboy to understand.

And I am not attacking China. I couldn’t care less about what happens in Uyghur Muslims just like I couldn’t care less about what happens in Kashmir. I am attacking the hypocrisy of people like you and our PM who are vocal in their criticism of India but will not utter a word to condemn the atrocities of China.

Which is precisely why it's a waste of time to condemn China. You don't really care about the Uyghurs as you freely admit, and neither do any of the Indians who keep bleating about it on a loop. So Imran Khan is quite right not to say anything because he realises his words would fall on deaf ears. Only the west has the power to take on China and they won't get involved on behalf of Uyghurs.

 

[Mamoon]

Which is precisely why it's a waste of time to condemn China. You don't really care about the Uyghurs as you freely admit, and neither do any of the Indians who keep bleating about it on a loop. So Imran Khan is quite right not to say anything because he realises his words would fall on deaf ears. Only the west has the power to take on China and they won't get involved on behalf of Uyghurs.

Imran can continue to ignore the Uyghurs because of his Chinese masters, but then he should also make peace with the fact that the world will not take his verbal diarrhea on Kashmir seriously.

Whenever Pakistan’s stance on Kashmir is countered with our hypocrisy regarding China, we don’t have an answer.

 

[Dingolfy]

You, me and KingKhan are all British right? If we were really that bothered about Chinese oppression of Muslims I am sure we would wage war to save them same as we did to save the Jews from Nazi Germany. Do you think it's time for we British to declare war on China?

Ain't no British is gonna fight for saving any religion. And they don’t care about what some brown dudes think on an internet forum. Every nation cares about their own interest. And its nobodies interest to fight a nation like China and start world war 3.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ain't no British is gonna fight for saving any religion. And they don’t care about what some brown dudes think on an internet forum. Every nation cares about their own interest. And its nobodies interest to fight a nation like China and start world war 3.

Yes that was my point, so why should Imran Khan criticise China publicly when it's only going to harm Pakistan? Far better to continue to publicly lambast India over Kashmir as there is nothing to lose there, and it annoys Indians and their Pakistani cheerleaders.

 

[Tubs]

You, me and KingKhan are all British right? If we were really that bothered about Chinese oppression of Muslims I am sure we would wage war to save them same as we did to save the Jews from Nazi Germany. Do you think it's time for we British to declare war on China?

???

You do puzzle me sometimes. I have no idea how what I said suggested anything close to war. My point was that KKWC is always being such a toughguy on the forum when it comes to the European far-right, Hinduvta, but that energy disappears- and turns into apologia- when China are the perpetrators. I am not advocating for any foreign intervention, it was just a matter of consistency.

If you think Britain's involvement in WWII was motivated by the holocaust, you're mistaken. Firstly, Britain (and France I think?) joined the war because of Poland getting invaded by Nazi Germany. Secondly, the holocaust hadn't started in any meaningful way until after 1939.

 

[observer1]

Which is precisely why it's a waste of time to condemn China. You don't really care about the Uyghurs as you freely admit, and neither do any of the Indians who keep bleating about it on a loop. So Imran Khan is quite right not to say anything because he realises his words would fall on deaf ears. Only the west has the power to take on China and they won't get involved on behalf of Uyghurs.

Spot on

 

[Mamoon]

Yes that was my point, so why should Imran Khan criticise China publicly when it's only going to harm Pakistan? Far better to continue to publicly lambast India over Kashmir as there is nothing to lose there, and it annoys Indians and their Pakistani cheerleaders.

In order to be taken seriously, Imran needs to either criticize China or take the humanitarian mask off and acknowledge the truth that Kashmir is a political cause for Pakistan.

He cannot put the humanitarian spin on Kashmir and then expect people to ignore his double-standards on China.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In order to be taken seriously, Imran needs to either criticize China or take the humanitarian mask off and acknowledge the truth that Kashmir is a political cause for Pakistan.

He cannot put the humanitarian spin on Kashmir and then expect people to ignore his double-standards on China.

No one is denying Kashmir is a political cause for Pakistan, but it is also a humanitarian one. Whether enemies take it seriously is of no importance, the goal isn't to please them.

 

[Mamoon]

No one is denying Kashmir is a political cause for Pakistan, but it is also a humanitarian one. Whether enemies take it seriously is of no importance, the goal isn't to please them.

No country is taking Pakistan on Kashmir except 2-3, and only because they have vested interests.

 

[Local.Dada]

No one is denying Kashmir is a political cause for Pakistan, but it is also a humanitarian one. Whether enemies take it seriously is of no importance, the goal isn't to please them.

You can’t be selective about humanitarian causes or causes that threaten your religion/ culture.

If Imran Khan says India stole Kashmir or India took Pakistan territory that is fine, we can respect that view point, however when the Kashmir issue is seen as atrocity against Islam or a concern about a neighbor violating human rights then that selective ness would be called as hypocrisy.

Based on how you have been articulating in the last few posts I guess you already know that. Just wanted to expand upon the obvious difference.

As an Indian I wouldn’t say the uyghyur thing is a burning issue for us but it definitely is a good working point to show hypocrisy.

 

[JaDed]

. Now they are in a mess and become so dependent on others that they don’t have courage to speak put loudly.

Pakistani officials are defending in this case..not speaking up is different from defending Chinese.

 

[JaDed]

Pakistan not speaking on Chinese Muslim issue is not a big deal but going out of their way to defend the Chinese Authorities in official capacity is hypocritical.(Yeah India is as well)

 

[BreadPakoda]

This issue has shown how fiercely loyal Pakistanis are once they are under your thumb, especially some of the ones living in UK like cap.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This issue has shown how fiercely loyal Pakistanis are once they are under your thumb, especially some of the ones living in UK like cap.

It shows how smart Pakistanis are. In private and among themselves, they would not be supporting china on uyghurs, but they don't want to satisfy indians and show outrage just because indians, of all people, are demanding it.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

It shows how smart Pakistanis are. In private and among themselves, they would not be supporting china on uyghurs, but they don't want to satisfy indians and show outrage just because indians, of all people, are demanding it.

"Feelings" don't decide foreign policies.

The topic is a dead horse.

When Hannibal crossed the Alps and inflicted the legendary phainta of Cannae to the Rome he had Rome's many former allies in his side.

When Muhammad Bin Qasim invaded sub continent, that city with big Hindu temple's lead Brahmins guided him to victory.

I could write so many more examples but I ain't a paid shill, neither am I a troll of some thief political party and neither do I get any pleasure from stating the obvious...

Chinese are not our phuppo's aulad, they are our strategic allies. Hope y'all get the point.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I have always empathized with the Pakistani leadership, they have no choice, they sold their soul to the ultimate Evil (Saitan) in the form of China due to the country being in tatters financially. However I do not feel the same way with the Pakistani public, like that dumb fool on twitter, Mehreen Zahra Malik. Pakistani people should be able to speak up against China, especially on a messageboard, internet etc, yet you will see only see a few Pakistanis utter a word against China, on the contrary more will support China closing their eyes on all the evil happening in the concentration camp in China....

Lets say Allah was the one and only all mighty (I do not believe so) however for arguments sake lets say it is that way, do you believe Allah will look at Pakistanis and say YES, I will forgive you for the ignoring the genocide and mutilation of the Ugyur Muslims in China as you supported the Palestinians and Kashmiris.... God is not going to discriminate.

Per the Quran, Hellfire awaits a lot of Pakistanis..

Spoke like a true mullah: follow my agenda/idea/interpretation/logic or go to hell

Read Surat Al fil https://quran.com/105
----
India is selling rice to China, their companies are doing business in your saath wali building (neighborhood) and all the money your fat rulers are stealing is getting diverted to them

 

[Romali_rotti]

Spoke like a true mullah: follow my agenda/idea/interpretation/logic or go to hell

Read Surat Al fil https://quran.com/105
----
India is selling rice to China, their companies are doing business in your saath wali building (neighborhood) and all the money your fat rulers are stealing is getting diverted to them

So you believe logically Allah will be fine when you reach after life for ignoring the Ugyur genocide per the 'Ummah' ?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

So you believe logically Allah will be fine when you reach after life for ignoring the Ugyur genocide per the 'Ummah' ?

The Ummah meme is generated/pushed by internet trolls and radical Mullahs.

My belief (Iman) in Allah doesn't involve logic, neither do I speak for Allah (probably the greatest sin) neither do I say who will go to hell/paradise (I pray and hope).

Don't be lazy, read Surat Al Fil and what it's about.

 

[Romali_rotti]

The Ummah meme is generated/pushed by internet trolls and radical Mullahs.

My belief (Iman) in Allah doesn't involve logic, neither do I speak for Allah (probably the greatest sin) neither do I say who will go to hell/paradise (I pray and hope).

Don't be lazy, read Surat Al Fil and what it's about.

I am not being lazy, obviously you are Muslim so you know more about the Quran than me. However from the little research I have done, ignoring another muslim's suffering is condemned in the Quran, are you saying the Ummah concept is not a Quran based ?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

are you saying the Ummah concept is not a Quran based ?

Disclaimer: As a common Muslim and as far a I know, Ummah means community. I admit my ignorance, please feel free to correct me.

Each Prophet had their own Ummah in past times.

All of us, Muslims or non Muslims, born since the day Prophet was alive until the day of judgment are the Ummah of Prophet PBUH. Since he is the last Messenger of Allah and Quran is The Last Message to all humanity.

So all of us visiting this forum, from Quranic point of view are part of the same Ummah.

Allah SWT knows best.

 

[Itachi]

Disclaimer: As a common Muslim and as far a I know, Ummah means community. I admit my ignorance, please feel free to correct me.

Each Prophet had their own Ummah in past times.

All of us, Muslims or non Muslims, born since the day Prophet was alive until the day of judgment are the Ummah of Prophet PBUH. Since he is the last Messenger of Allah and Quran is The Last Message to all humanity.

So all of us visiting this forum, from Quranic point of view are part of the same Ummah.

Allah SWT knows best.

Do you support the concept of helping another Muslim based upon whether you have a connection or not?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Do you support the concept of helping another Muslim based upon whether you have a connection or not?

Obviously I do. Not only another Muslim but another human being or animal.

What about you?

 

[KingKhanWC]

You are still evading the question. I think I should put you out of your misery but I am tempting to ask again.

Why does China have to insult religion to suppress a separatist movement? It is clearly not simple enough for a schoolboy to understand.

And I am not attacking China. I couldn’t care less about what happens in Uyghur Muslims just like I couldn’t care less about what happens in Kashmir. I am attacking the hypocrisy of people like you and our PM who are vocal in their criticism of India but will not utter a word to condemn the atrocities of China.

lol. Go ask China.

I never suggested its right to do so. I merely argued they treat all sepratists the same, attacking their religion in much of the same way as proven by their treatment of Tibetan Bhuddists. Im glad you have finally accepted this reality.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

The Chinese state empowering Uyghur women.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uygur women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. They are more confident and independent. <a href="https://t.co/lykDhByEiL">https://t.co/lykDhByEiL</a></p>— Chinese Embassy in US (@ChineseEmbinUS) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/1347247602094534658?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[observer1]

I appreciate full well the reasons behind Pakistan and China having military and strategic ties.

Agree or disagree, anyone with a basic level of understanding of geopolitics will appreciate what they are doing. I personally would like to have avoided it, but sadly it is what it is and Pakistan seems to be getting stabbed in the back by its neighbours and allies except Turkey.

What saddens me though is, despite the plethora of physical evidence, there are Pakistanis and Muslims denying what is taking place there against Muslims in China. Find a balance. You can convenient support their alliance whilst condemning China for its historic and present attitude towards Uigurs.

 

[The Viper]

UK condemns China’s ‘horrific barbarism’ against Uighur minority

The United Kingdom has accused China of human rights violations amounting to “barbarism” against its Uighur minority, as it announced, on Tuesday, new rules to ban imports of goods suspected of using forced labour.

The abuses were “on an industrial scale”, said foreign secretary Dominic Raab, in strongly-worded comments that will do little to improve ties with Beijing strained by its crackdown in Hong Kong.

“It is truly horrific barbarism we had hoped lost to another era, in practice today as we speak, in one of the leading members of the international community,” he told Parliament.

“We have a moral duty to respond.”

Raab outlined plans to bar British companies which inadvertently or deliberately profit from, or contribute to, human rights violations against the Uighurs in Xinjiang province, northwest China.

The measures included a strengthening of the UK’s Modern Slavery Act to introduce fines for businesses not complying with transparency rules, extending the act to the public sector, and an “urgent review” of export controls around Xinjiang.

The move stands in contrast to a December trade deal between the European Union and China, which approved major investment and opened up the Chinese market to the 27-member bloc.

The deal was criticised because of widespread claims of forced labour in Chinese supply chains and put the EU out of step with like-minded partners including the US, Australia and the UK, which have all sought to check China’s ambitions.

The UK left the EU in January last year, and as of January 1, this year is no longer bound by its rules.

It is hoping to use Brexit as a way to promote a more globally focused Britain beyond Europe.

Its “Global Britain” strategy includes targeted sanctions against human rights violators, which so far has slapped restrictions on individuals and groups from Russia and Saudi Arabia to North Korea.

Canada joined the UK on Tuesday in announcing limits on imports from Xinjiang, saying it was “deeply concerned” about the “mistreatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities by Chinese authorities” in a written statement.

Canadian Minister of Foreign Affairs Francois-Philippe Champagne said in the statement “Nobody should face mistreatment on the basis of their religion or ethnicity. Together with the UK, we are taking action to ensure we are not complicit in the abuse of the Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang.”

Ottawa will advance measures to block products produced by forced labour, including studies on forced labour and offering “advanced advice to Canadian companies”, the statement said.

Supply chains

The UK and China’s relationship has grown increasingly frosty over the last two years, particularly over London’s criticism of the crackdown on democracy campaigners in Hong Kong and its offer of citizenship for its residents

London has also expressed concerns the textile industry is not checking carefully enough whether goods from Xinjiang, which supplies nearly a quarter of the world’s cotton, are made using forced labour.

Raab told members of Parliament that action had to be taken to “make sure that UK businesses are not part of the supply chains that lead to the gates of the internment camps in Xinjiang”.

The government needed to ensure that “the products of the human rights violations that take place in those camps don’t end up on the shelves of supermarkets that we shop in here at home week in, week out”, he added.

British retailer Marks and Spencer promised last week not to use cotton from Xinjiang, as concern grows in the fashion industry about their supply chains.

International human rights groups have documented mounting evidence of forced labour, as well as forced sterilisations, torture, surveillance, and the repression of Uighur culture.

According to experts, at least one million Uighurs have been detained in recent years in political “re-education camps” in the huge region of China that borders Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Beijing has dismissed these charges, saying it is operating vocational training centres to counter what it views as “Islamist radicalism” following a series of attacks it attributed to the Muslim group.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...nst-uighur-minority?__twitter_impression=true

 

[The Viper]

China possibly committed ‘genocide’ against Xinjiang Muslims

China has possibly committed “genocide” in its treatment of Uighurs and other minority Muslims in its western region of Xinjiang, a bipartisan commission of the United States Congress has said in a new report.

The Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC) said on Thursday that new evidence had emerged in the past year that “crimes against humanity – and possibly genocide – are occurring”.

The CECC also accused China of harassing Uighurs in the US.

China has been widely condemned for setting up complexes in Xinjiang that it describes as “vocational training centres” to stamp out “extremism” and give people new skills, but others have called them concentration camps.

The United Nations says at least one million Uighurs and other Muslims have been detained in Xinjiang.

Faith leaders, activist groups and others have said crimes against humanity, including genocide, are taking place there. Beijing denies abuse accusations.

The CECC report called for a formal US “determination on whether atrocities are being committed” in Xinjiang, and such a determination is required within 90 days of US legislation passed on December 27.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, in his final days in office before President-elect Joe Biden succeeds President Donald Trump on January 20, has already been weighing a determination, although given current turmoil in Washington, officials have played down the possibility of an announcement before that.

‘Shocking and unprecedented’
CECC co-chair, Democratic Representative Jim McGovern, called China’s actions to crush human rights in the past year “shocking and unprecedented” and urged Congress and the incoming Biden administration to hold Beijing accountable.

“The United States must continue to stand with the people of China in their struggle and lead the world in a united and coordinated response to the human rights abuses of the Chinese government,” he said.

Relations between the world’s two biggest economic powerhouses have plunged to the lowest level in recent years over disagreements on issues including human rights, the coronavirus pandemic, trade, espionage and a sweeping national security law imposed on Hong Kong.

Experts say a genocide determination would be an enormous embarrassment for China, the world’s second-largest economy and a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

It could also pose problems for Biden by complicating his dealings with Beijing, although his campaign had already declared, before the November election, that genocide was occurring in Xinjiang.

In October, Trump’s national security adviser, Robert O’Brien, said Beijing was perpetrating “something close to” genocide in Xinjiang and other officials have referred to concentration camps there.

Under international law, crimes against humanity are defined as widespread and systematic, whereas the burden of proof for genocide – the intent to destroy part of a population – can be more difficult to prove.

Expectations that Pompeo might declare genocide were raised in June when he labelled as “shocking” and “disturbing” reports that China was using forced sterilisation, forced abortion and coercive family planning against Muslims.

He was referring to a report last year about the situation in Xinjiang by German researcher Adrian Zenz, which the CECC report also cited.

Zenz said his findings represented the strongest evidence yet that Beijing’s Xinjiang policies met one of the criteria cited in the UN genocide convention, namely “imposing measures intended to prevent births within the [targeted] group”.

A US genocide declaration would mean that countries would have to think hard about allowing companies to do business with Xinjiang, a leading global supplier of cotton. It would also raise pressure for further US sanctions against China.

On Wednesday, US Customs and Border Protection said the US was imposing a region-wide ban on all cotton and tomato products from Xinjiang over allegations that they are made with forced labour by detained Uighurs.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...st-xinjiang-muslims?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Bigboii]

This thread is just full of apologists
Should have posted this when the thread started


I get why IK isn't commenting on this genocide, he has his reasons

But at least condemn this on a personal level and do something on a personal level to stop this genocide

If you can't do this basic thing than shut your mouth when talking about India or West

 

[saeedhk]

Has Imran Khan, the undisputed champion of human rights and justice, written a letter China yet? I am asking asking because Pakistan wrote a letter to Netflix last week!

 

[Pakpak]

Has Imran Khan, the undisputed champion of human rights and justice, written a letter China yet? I am asking asking because Pakistan wrote a letter to Netflix last week!

Imran Khan is not the one caging millions in camps.Nor is he the one causing unrest in Hong Kong.

Both places where you reside. Yet never speak about and still bring Imran in knowing the fact Pakistan depends on China.

 

[Pakpak]

Has Imran Khan, the undisputed champion of human rights and justice, written a letter China yet? I am asking asking because Pakistan wrote a letter to Netflix last week!

So Imran khan can call China out which would result in:

-all end to our military cooperation and a devastating blow to our military's deterrent something which we would never recover from
-an end to all the vetos China does on our behalf to stop Indian backed resolutions in the security cancel
-a devastating blow to our diplomatic pull and influence in the region something which we'd not recover from
-an economic catastrophe as CPEC would end and billions in Chinese investment would cripple our economy

Or he stays quiet and looks like a hypocrite


Which of these two scenarios are in Pakistan's national interest and which of these two scenarios are in India's interest?

Mods do not edit my post please, these paid trolls need to be shown up after its proven by the disinfo leaks how they spread misinformation. The fact this troll still haven't given any proof of genocide should have been the end of his nonsense if he had any shame he'd stopped posting. [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] was right these paid shills need to do better.

 

[saeedhk]

So Imran khan can call China out which would result in:

-all end to our military cooperation and a devastating blow to our military's deterrent something which we would never recover from
-an end to all the vetos China does on our behalf to stop Indian backed resolutions in the security cancel
-a devastating blow to our diplomatic pull and influence in the region something which we'd not recover from
-an economic catastrophe as CPEC would end and billions in Chinese investment would cripple our economy

Or he stays quiet and looks like a hypocrite


Which of these two scenarios are in Pakistan's national interest and which of these two scenarios are in India's interest?

Mods do not edit my post please, these paid trolls need to be shown up after its proven by the disinfo leaks how they spread misinformation. The fact this troll still haven't given any proof of genocide should have been the end of his nonsense if he had any shame he'd stopped posting. [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] was right these paid shills need to do better.

Basically, you have said what I have been saying all along. Pakistan does not care about human rights and all of its statements on human rights abuses in Kashmir, Burma, Palestine and elsewhere are mere hogwash. Money is what makes Pakistan excited. Those who feed Pakistan with money are exempted from Pakistan's tirade. Hence, Pakistan has ZERO credibility to talk about the sufferings of Muslims In Kashmir and elsewhere because its leaders a A-grade hypocrites.

 

[saeedhk]

Imran Khan is not the one caging millions in camps.Nor is he the one causing unrest in Hong Kong.

Both places where you reside. Yet never speak about and still bring Imran in knowing the fact Pakistan depends on China.

He is not caging and he is not caging the ones in Kashmir too. Why does he speak about one of them only and ignores the other?

 

[Mamoon]

The reason why the world does not take Imran and Pakistan seriously on Kashmir issue is because of our attempts to fool the world that Kashmir is a humanitarian issue for Pakistan.

When we play the fake humanitarian card, we are immediately exposed and called out for ignoring the atrocities of our Chinese masters.

We need to accept the fact that Kashmir is purely a political cause for Pakistan and they, like every other country in the world, does not believe in humanity. It is all about politics.

As long as Pakistan continues to do the humanity and Muslim ummah act, they will get called out for their double-standards.

 

[observer1]

The reason why the world does not take Imran and Pakistan seriously on Kashmir issue is because of our attempts to fool the world that Kashmir is a humanitarian issue for Pakistan.

When we play the fake humanitarian card, we are immediately exposed and called out for ignoring the atrocities of our Chinese masters.

We need to accept the fact that Kashmir is purely a political cause for Pakistan and they, like every other country in the world, does not believe in humanity. It is all about politics.

As long as Pakistan continues to do the humanity and Muslim ummah act, they will get called out for their double-standards.

What's this "we" business ? I can understand if you are referring to the Sharif dynasty for playing politics, however, the Kashmir issue is a strong issue for many Pakistanis.

Considering countless of lives have been lost over it, it is shameful and pathetic for someone to question the motives and beliefs of others without facts.

I know you have a personal grudge against IK, however he's done far more sincere and genuine work than previous leaders in Pakistan's recent history.

 

[Mamoon]

What's this "we" business ? I can understand if you are referring to the Sharif dynasty for playing politics, however, the Kashmir issue is a strong issue for many Pakistanis.

Considering countless of lives have been lost over it, it is shameful and pathetic for someone to question the motives and beliefs of others without facts.

I know you have a personal grudge against IK, however he's done far more sincere and genuine work than previous leaders in Pakistan's recent history.

The reality is that whenever Imran has taken up the Kashmir issue, he has been snubbed by everyone including other Muslim states.

Only countries like China that have us in the palm of their hands have lended support and only because they have interests in Pakistan.

Also, you have the self-appointed delusional caliph and war criminal Erdogan and no one takes him seriously either.

 

[observer1]

The reality is that whenever Imran has taken up the Kashmir issue, he has been snubbed by everyone including other Muslim states.

Only countries like China that have us in the palm of their hands have lended support and only because they have interests in Pakistan.

Also, you have the self-appointed delusional caliph and war criminal Erdogan and no one takes him seriously either.

The opinion of other leaders and their reluctance to sever diplomatic ties with India should have no bearing on what Pakistan thinks is right.

Are you saying Pakistan should change its tune to pander more to other nations? That's pretty pathetic Mamoon, even for you.

Regardless if Nations can only offer lip service, Pakistan has always showed it's card on the Kashmir issue, as has India.

I have no idea what the relevance is of your last Paragraph. Are you confused?

 

[Mamoon]

The opinion of other leaders and their reluctance to sever diplomatic ties with India should have no bearing on what Pakistan thinks is right.

Are you saying Pakistan should change its tune to pander more to other nations? That's pretty pathetic Mamoon, even for you.

Regardless if Nations can only offer lip service, Pakistan has always showed it's card on the Kashmir issue, as has India.

I have no idea what the relevance is of your last Paragraph. Are you confused?

I said war criminal Erdogan has also lended support to Pakistan on Kashmir, and interestingly enough, the great humanitarian Imran does not have the courage to confront his friend on his treatment of Kurds.

He would rather promote the rubbish propaganda Ertugrul.

Pakistan can and should play it’s cards on Kashmir. That is not the point. The point is that if Pakistan wants to make any inroads, it will have to accept that Kashmir is a political battle rather than a humanitarian issue.

As long as we play the fake humanitarian card, we are easily negated when our silence on the treatment of Uyghur Muslims is highlighted.

We can continue to play our cards for as long as we want, we will not achieve anything.

 

[Varun]

Tldr: Pakistan has its price. China and Saudi Arabia have paid it, so are exempt from the criticisms of their conduct in Xinjiang and Yemen.

India and Israel have not, so are subject to moral policing of their conduct in Kashmir and Palestine.

The other Muslim countries rightfully don't care what happens a continent away, since they are pretty secure in their own identity, Bangladesh included.

 

[Pakpak]

Basically, you have said what I have been saying all along. Pakistan does not care about human rights and all of its statements on human rights abuses in Kashmir, Burma, Palestine and elsewhere are mere hogwash. Money is what makes Pakistan excited. Those who feed Pakistan with money are exempted from Pakistan's tirade. Hence, Pakistan has ZERO credibility to talk about the sufferings of Muslims In Kashmir and elsewhere because its leaders a A-grade hypocrites.

Anything that's in a country's interest they speak about. Do you think India or the UK or the US give a sh1t about Chinese Muslim dying when they have killed thousands of Muslims themselves in Iraq and Kashmir? Ofcourse not.

Youre a fraud who knows these things yet opens his mug everyday.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Tldr: Pakistan has its price. China and Saudi Arabia have paid it, so are exempt from the criticisms of their conduct in Xinjiang and Yemen.

India and Israel have not, so are subject to moral policing of their conduct in Kashmir and Palestine.

If that was so, why doesn't india pay the price to pakistan instead of spending on defence and buy peace.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This thread is just full of apologists
Should have posted this when the thread started
View attachment 106119

I get why IK isn't commenting on this genocide, he has his reasons

But at least condemn this on a personal level and do something on a personal level to stop this genocide

If you can't do this basic thing than shut your mouth when talking about India or West

How do you know IK isn't condemning and acting on a personal level? I'm not really sure what you mean here. What is it you expect him to do, and how do you think that would help the Uihghurs?

 

[Pakpak]

How do you know IK isn't condemning and acting on a personal level? I'm not really sure what you mean here. What is it you expect him to do, and how do you think that would help the Uihghurs?

Every country does that, it's called geo politics. Literally every country does it. And Imran Khan apparently has admitted it in private due to Pakistan's poor economic condition it has no choice. He can either blast China and see our nation end like Syria or stay quiet and make the life better for the average Pakistani.

We know he chose the second option. His Indian handlers on our message board ofcourse don't like that.

 

[saeedhk]

Anything that's in a country's interest they speak about. Do you think India or the UK or the US give a sh1t about Chinese Muslim dying when they have killed thousands of Muslims themselves in Iraq and Kashmir? Ofcourse not.

Youre a fraud who knows these things yet opens his mug everyday.

Exactly. Pakistan’s Kashmir’s narrative has no legs to stand on!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Exactly. Pakistan’s Kashmir’s narrative has no legs to stand on!

Come on old chap, remember you are supposed to be crying crocodile tears for the Uighurs here, what has Kashmir got to do with it?

You do want to help the Uighurs right?

 

[Pakpak]

Exactly. Pakistan’s Kashmir’s narrative has no legs to stand on!

Eh? Kashmir is an recognised dispute by the UN between Pakistan and India.

You should contact your handlers at the Srivaasna group to give you better lines.

 

[Pakpak]

Come on old chap, remember you are supposed to be crying crocodile tears for the Uighurs here, what has Kashmir got to do with it?

You do want to help the Uighurs right?

The guy is a fraud and clearly not who he says he is.

 

[Tubs]

Pakistan has more of a case to care about Kashmir simply because they share ancestry, it's a disputed territory, and the people overwhelmingly support Pakistan and are being subjugated by India. There certainly is religion involved too, but it's a bit more than that too.

When it comes to China's treatment of the Uighurs, some posters who spew vitriol about France supposedly uniquely discriminating against Muslims justify China's actions by saying 'they treat all religions the same'. They don't use the ridiculous 'extremist secularist' label that they do with France. However, it is the case that France treats all religions with equal distain (while I am not a fan of religion, I think France may go too far in this regard), because while Muslim women can't wear hijabs at schools and in government workplaces, the same goes for Sikhs with turbans (and I assume kirpan but I haven't checked this), Jews with yarmulkes and stars of David, etc, and Christians with the cross and so on. And France isn't forcing anyone to eat pork, drink alcohol or sterilising women, nor are they editing the Quran.

So, [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] do you admit that China is far worse than France?

 

[saeedhk]

Eh? Kashmir is an recognised dispute by the UN between Pakistan and India.

You should contact your handlers at the Srivaasna group to give you better lines.

It is a dispute. However, Pakistan always gets snubbed at the UN whenever it brings up the issue. Because, Pakistan’s foreign policy is very hypocritical! It is a country that turns a blind eye to the sufferings of its own minorities. It also continues to turn a blind eye to Yemen and Uygur Muslims just because the Saudis and Chinese feed us!

 

[Pakpak]

It is a dispute. However, Pakistan always gets snubbed at the UN whenever it brings up the issue. Because, Pakistan’s foreign policy is very hypocritical! It is a country that turns a blind eye to the sufferings of its own minorities. It also continues to turn a blind eye to Yemen and Uygur Muslims just because the Saudis and Chinese feed us!

I know you and your Srivaasna handlers would like Pakistan to bash China on Uygurs so our economy, military and diplomatic influence can collapse completely but fortunately for us it doesn't work like that.

Every country's foreign policy is hypocritical you utter foolish *****. India which slaughters Kashmir but attached China. The UK AND US killing millions of Arabs but support Israel or attack China over it's Muslim abuss. Iran which fights with Sunni militais but now backs Taliban. US which supports democracy but backs dictators. It's called geopolitks you utter foolish moronic.

 

[Pakpak]

It is a dispute. However, Pakistan always gets snubbed at the UN whenever it brings up the issue. Because, Pakistan’s foreign policy is very hypocritical! It is a country that turns a blind eye to the sufferings of its own minorities. It also continues to turn a blind eye to Yemen and Uygur Muslims just because the Saudis and Chinese feed us!

Where are the genocide stats? Why are paid Srivaasna shills like you posting? You make me sick. Utter fraud and a liar.

 

[saeedhk]

I know you and your Srivaasna handlers would like Pakistan to bash China on Uygurs so our economy, military and diplomatic influence can collapse completely but fortunately for us it doesn't work like that.

Every country's foreign policy is hypocritical you utter foolish *****. India which slaughters Kashmir but attached China. The UK AND US killing millions of Arabs but support Israel or attack China over it's Muslim abuss. Iran which fights with Sunni militais but now backs Taliban. US which supports democracy but backs dictators. It's called geopolitks you utter foolish moronic.

Again, you admitted what I have been saying: if a country pays money to Pakistan, then that country is exempted from Pakistan’s human rights tirade.

Yes.Our PM is a massive hypocrite. As a result, we should not jump up and down and take our PM’s words seriously.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So many Imran Khan critics, some of them are talking about France, some of them are talking about Kashmir.....does anyone actually care about the genocide of the Uighurs? What would be some sensible solutions to stop them being wiped out/raped/tortured etc.?

The main suggestion so far seems to be a great expectation for Imran Khan to take on China because he is a Muslim and a Pakistani. These are great credentials to be sure, but what would be an effective way forward? Perhaps he could get on a white horse and gallop towards Beijing Ertugrul style?

What say ye Indophiles? Sound like a plan?

 

[Robert]

So, [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] do you admit that China is far worse than France?

Ah, you see he can't because that would mean admitting that "the West" / "Zionists" aren't the worst thing happening to Muslims at present. He would have to change his entire frame of reference and PP would be sucked into another dimsension if that happened. Really he is looking out for us

 

[Pakpak]

So many Imran Khan critics, some of them are talking about France, some of them are talking about Kashmir.....does anyone actually care about the genocide of the Uighurs? What would be some sensible solutions to stop them being wiped out/raped/tortured etc.?

The main suggestion so far seems to be a great expectation for Imran Khan to take on China because he is a Muslim and a Pakistani. These are great credentials to be sure, but what would be an effective way forward? Perhaps he could get on a white horse and gallop towards Beijing Ertugrul style?

What say ye Indophiles? Sound like a plan?

You can't do this, you have to give 'saeedhk' atleast sometime before his Srivaasna handlers tell him what to say. But don't hold your breath. He'll run away just like he's ran away whenever I ask him for any stats to back up his nonsensical Shia genocide claims.

 

[saeedhk]

You can't do this, you have to give 'saeedhk' atleast sometime before his Srivaasna handlers tell him what to say. But don't hold your breath. He'll run away just like he's ran away whenever I ask him for any stats to back up his nonsensical Shia genocide claims.

Already told you that it is a massive genocide. Already gave you the numbers. You choose to ignore it.