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Chris Broad gives Pune pitch poor grade after three-day India v Australia Test

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Abdullah719

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Match referee Chris Broad graded the pitch in Pune as poor after India's three-day defeat at the hands of Australia in the first Test of their four-match series.

The home side set up a bone-dry track at the Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium as they looked to claim maximum benefit from their strong set of spinners.

But their plan backfired in spectacular fashion as Australia's spinners proved more at home on the surface in claiming 17 of the 20 India wickets to fall.

Steve O'Keefe returned figures of 6-35 in both innings as Australia secured a 333-run victory.

The pitch has now fallen foul of the Pitch and Outfield Monitoring Process of the International Cricket Council (ICC) and India's cricket board now has 14 days to respond to the report.

Punishment for a first "poor" rating for any venue ranges from warning to a maximum of $15,000 fine with a directive for appropriate corrective action.

The second Test starts on Saturday in Bangalore, live on Sky Sports, where officials have promised a "sporting" pitch.

http://www.skysports.com/cricket/ne...-grade-after-three-day-india-v-australia-test
 
Not that good for the poor Pune curator.
 
Oh God, twice in two years?
The ICC need to lay down the gauntlet , this level of pitch doping isn't acceptable.
Poor advert for the game, I'm sure even the apologists would agree.
 
But, but, but... There was nothing wrong with the pitch.
 
MenInG said:
Not that good for the poor Pune curator.
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Poor guy generally prepares pitches with good pace and bounce. The team management pressurized him into preparing this rank turner. Sad.
 
As I said on the first day of the test, it was not just a turning wicket, it was a unprepared , bad wicket and a disgrace to test cricket. Only India can get away with that, twice in a year.
 
moghul said:
As I said on the first day of the test, it was not just a turning wicket, it was a unprepared , bad wicket and a disgrace to test cricket. Only India can get away with that, twice in a year.
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What was the first occurrence?
 
Meh.

If India had scored 300, no one would have given this pitch poor rating.

The bounce was consistent but turn part was high.

According to ICC rules though, it deserves to be called poor pitch.

On a similar note, was any of the pitches served in the recent NZ-Pak called poor?

And how come none of the Aussie pattas are getting called poor?

Those pitches break ICC rules BIG TIME. Go read up on the rules.

It's this nonsense which is why I talk about desi inferiority complex which runs rampant.
 
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Disgraceful pitch. This match should be declared null and void to serve a lesson to curators.
 
I just don't get it. The wicket actually had something in it for all so how is that a poor wicket? It's those no good concrete slabs that they need to go after. Ridiculous if you ask me.
 
‘Second India, Australia Test will be played on sporting pitch’


Barring a last-minute intervention from the home side, the second Test between India and Australia will be played on a “sporting” pitch which will be fair to both teams, organisers in Bengaluru have said.

Pitch talk dominated reaction in India to their series-opening defeat inside three days in Pune, where Australia’s left-arm spinner Steve O’Keefe claimed 12 wickets, the best figures recorded by a visiting spinner on Indian soil.

Many believe India’s ploy to roll out a turning track backfired on the hosts, who would do well not to ask for a similar pitch as they chase a series-levelling victory in the second test from Saturday.

Karnataka State Cricket Association secretary Sudhakar Rao said they had not received any suggestion from the Indian team and were focusing on preparing a pitch which would provide a fair-contest between bat and ball.

“Our intention is to prepare a sporting, Test-match pitch,” Rao told Tuesday’s Hindu newspaper.

“We want a five-day match. We definitely don’t want to see the match end in two and a half days.”

Australia beat India at their own spin game on the bone-dry Pune track used for the venue’s test debut. O’Keefe and spin partner Nathan Lyon claimed all 10 Indian wickets in the hosts’ second innings.

“We like to keep some moisture underneath. So we haven’t stopped watering it,” Rao added.

“We’ll water it until two or three days before the match. Then we will see what the pitch looks like, two days out, and take a call.”

Link
 
To be honest, the pitch wasn't too bad. Why don't flat pitches that are practically highways get poor grading? ICC is doing everything it can to make it a tougher game for bowlers. Smith getting a hundred and Starc taking Indian bowling apart with his monstrous sixes is enough proof to the fact that the pitch was just fine, Indian batting was pathetic.
 
Didn't watch a single ball so can't really comment on the pitch.. However seeing the scorecard it seems Australian batsmen applied themselves better than Indians.. pitch might have been poor but Indian batsmen batted even more poorly..
 
SL_Fan said:
‘Second India, Australia Test will be played on sporting pitch’


Barring a last-minute intervention from the home side, the second Test between India and Australia will be played on a “sporting” pitch which will be fair to both teams, organisers in Bengaluru have said.

Pitch talk dominated reaction in India to their series-opening defeat inside three days in Pune, where Australia’s left-arm spinner Steve O’Keefe claimed 12 wickets, the best figures recorded by a visiting spinner on Indian soil.

Many believe India’s ploy to roll out a turning track backfired on the hosts, who would do well not to ask for a similar pitch as they chase a series-levelling victory in the second test from Saturday.

Karnataka State Cricket Association secretary Sudhakar Rao said they had not received any suggestion from the Indian team and were focusing on preparing a pitch which would provide a fair-contest between bat and ball.

“Our intention is to prepare a sporting, Test-match pitch,” Rao told Tuesday’s Hindu newspaper.

“We want a five-day match. We definitely don’t want to see the match end in two and a half days.”

Australia beat India at their own spin game on the bone-dry Pune track used for the venue’s test debut. O’Keefe and spin partner Nathan Lyon claimed all 10 Indian wickets in the hosts’ second innings.

“We like to keep some moisture underneath. So we haven’t stopped watering it,” Rao added.

“We’ll water it until two or three days before the match. Then we will see what the pitch looks like, two days out, and take a call.”

Link
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Why the hell?

It's a home side's choice to prepare pitch for THEIR team! Not the opposition's!

That what England, NZ and Australia do - they DO NOT prepare a spin track for SC teams. What on earth are Asian sides smoking?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Meh.

If India had scored 300, no one would have given this pitch poor rating.

The bounce was consistent but turn part was high.

According to ICC rules though, it deserves to be called poor pitch.

On a similar note, was any of the pitches served in the recent NZ-Pak called poor?

And how come none of the Aussie pattas are getting called poor?

Those pitches break ICC rules BIG TIME. Go read up on the rules.

It's this nonsense which is why I talk about desi inferiority complex which runs rampant.
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It's not inferiority complex or anything. The game of cricket was designed to be a contest between batsmen and bowlers who bowl fast. Spinners bowling to batsmen doesn't make a great viewing and in fact, with all due respect to great spin bowlers, you don't need to be well equipped to play spinners. Anyone would rather face spinners than fast bowlers. We shouldn't make pitches that make spinners indispensable. We should prepare wickets that are flat with a bit of turn and turn havoc in the last two days like the one we played in Mumbai against England last year.
 
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Bangalore pitches have always been good for Test matches (high scoring games with fair chances of results. In summer it turns a bit on last 2 days and on rainy/winter it can assist seamers in 1st hour), let's see...
 
I think India should restrict the venues for test matches (at least) to some numbers (5 to 6 maximum) like in Australia, South Africa, England and other countries. In this way things can get standardized. Way too many venues at the moment...

This way we can also assure good revenue from the stadiums and good interest for Test Cricket (with quality cricket not just from the teams, but also from the pitch!)
 
I agree that flat featherbeds should also attract the "poor" rating

Pune-696x522.jpg


You can see rough on a length and this is BEFORE play on day 1. But this pitch (on the orders of BCCI against local groundsmen) was just poor. Shouldn't ever be rough BEFORE play. Spin is fine, turn is natural in SC, but the pitch should have some slight chance of producing a 5 day match if teams play well (either by playing through the early green on a seamer until it flattens out or by a pitch starting to deteriorate as a match goes on- not already detariorated.

Oz won, but India pitch error brought our spinners into the game- I honestly don't think Lyon & O'Keefe would have bowled so effectively on a low, slow track. No-one to blame but BCCI.

Pitches that produces 2x550+ scores should also be rated poor.
 
And people who are making fun of that Kohli's dismissal... Let me tell you even Sir Don Bradman's grandfather would have got bowled/lbw for that delivery (or at the most top edge straight back to bowler! Provided the age of the eyes were super-sharp & luck coincided) It was such brutal! Just because Kohli offered no shot made it look ugly to you guys and became inferior. In my opinion that was the best option Kohli chose, hoping that it would just go bit top of the stump! (Without DRS I am sure plenty of batsmen would have survived on this pitch offering their pads!)

That one ball was enough to show the brutality of that pitch! All experts including Match Referee and even Australian ex-players accepted that! But only in PP people are making fun of Indian Batsmen! It was just that some key moments & luck (including toss) flew towards Australia and pressure got on Indians! I am sure it would have been the opposite if this had affected the Australian team and the result was reversed (it happened in one of the Mumbai Test Match decade back!) I am sure there would have been more cries about the pitch more than the ability of batsmen! Thankfully this time the victims were the Indian team!

You cannot judge the quality of batsmen & bowling based on this pitch!
 
What about Ist test between NZ and pakistan wicket? The outfield and 22 yards looked indistinguishably
 
Having said that Indian team has some long term weaknesses (Opening Batting, Rahane, Seamers, etc) which got exposed in this match. Umesh is just about 60 or 70% as good as Shami at the moment, and the next seamer in Shami's absence is actually nil... But on normal pitches (including flat pitches overseas) this Indian team is capable of putting decent show in spite of their weak-links! This team is also vulnerable on other extreme pitches (bouncy or swinging) as well. This will continue until the weaknesses are sorted out!
 
How can you bad-mouth the Pitch when one Team scores 333 runs more than the other ?????? I agree with Kohli, it was the Indian batting that was poor and not the Pitch !!!!!
 
King Kong said:
It's not inferiority complex or anything. The game of cricket was designed to be a contest between batsmen and bowlers who bowl fast. Spinners bowling to batsmen doesn't make a great viewing and in fact, with all due respect to great spin bowlers, you don't need to be well equipped to play spinners. Anyone would rather face spinners than fast bowlers. We shouldn't make pitches that make spinners indispensable. We should prepare wickets that are flat with a bit of turn and turn havoc in the last two days like the one we played in Mumbai against England last year.
Click to expand...

You start off with "its not inferiority complex but" and then you go to prove what my statement.

Why is spin any lesser than pace?

Did this pitch have up and down bounce? No.

Was this pitch dangerous for the batsmen? No.

Did this pitch take a lot of turn too early? Yes.

Was that against ICC pitch rules? Yes.

So was it fair to call this pitch poor? According to rules, yes.

If we apply the same logic, will the Pak vs NZ pitches in NZ and Aussie pattas be also called poor? According to rules, yes.

How many desis protesting regarding it? Zero.

And why is that?

Freaking INFERIORITY COMPLEX.

RamLakhan said:
And people who are making fun of that Kohli's dismissal... Let me tell you even Sir Don Bradman's grandfather would have got bowled/lbw for that delivery (or at the most top edge straight back to bowler! Provided the age of the eyes were super-sharp & luck coincided) It was such brutal! Just because Kohli offered no shot made it look ugly to you guys and became inferior. In my opinion that was the best option Kohli chose, hoping that it would just go bit top of the stump! (Without DRS I am sure plenty of batsmen would have survived on this pitch offering their pads!)

That one ball was enough to show the brutality of that pitch! All experts including Match Referee and even Australian ex-players accepted that! But only in PP people are making fun of Indian Batsmen! It was just that some key moments & luck (including toss) flew towards Australia and pressure got on Indians! I am sure it would have been the opposite if this had affected the Australian team and the result was reversed (it happened in one of the Mumbai Test Match decade back!) I am sure there would have been more cries about the pitch more than the ability of batsmen! Thankfully this time the victims were the Indian team!

You cannot judge the quality of batsmen & bowling based on this pitch!
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Its all nice to be passionate about this bro but I am afraid you are 100% wrong on this.

Kohli got out cos he didn't do the basics right for that ball which is to cover the line. He kept doing the basics right for every ball uptil that time and that delivery he didn't do.

Just go to my "Batting was the major culprit" thread and see the exact quotes Kohli gave.

He too says he should have played that line.

And yes, no name domestic cricketers of yesteryears would have played that ball just fine.

Let's not give excuses for bad technical game. All of our batsmen didn't even do the basics right and they have no rights to whine about the pitch. And good thing is, they didn't.

They accepted their mistakes like a champ and went about it.
 
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soso_killer said:
Oh God, twice in two years?
The ICC need to lay down the gauntlet , this level of pitch doping isn't acceptable.
Poor advert for the game, I'm sure even the apologists would agree.
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THIS!!!

If they want this much manipulation than why even bother...just play the series on a video console and do all the hacking (to their heart's desire) to win at all cost!
 
RamLakhan said:
And people who are making fun of that Kohli's dismissal... Let me tell you even Sir Don Bradman's grandfather would have got bowled/lbw for that delivery (or at the most top edge straight back to bowler! Provided the age of the eyes were super-sharp & luck coincided) It was such brutal! Just because Kohli offered no shot made it look ugly to you guys and became inferior. In my opinion that was the best option Kohli chose, hoping that it would just go bit top of the stump! (Without DRS I am sure plenty of batsmen would have survived on this pitch offering their pads!)

That one ball was enough to show the brutality of that pitch! All experts including Match Referee and even Australian ex-players accepted that! But only in PP people are making fun of Indian Batsmen! It was just that some key moments & luck (including toss) flew towards Australia and pressure got on Indians! I am sure it would have been the opposite if this had affected the Australian team and the result was reversed (it happened in one of the Mumbai Test Match decade back!) I am sure there would have been more cries about the pitch more than the ability of batsmen! Thankfully this time the victims were the Indian team!

You cannot judge the quality of batsmen & bowling based on this pitch!
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Can you advise which post 'in this thread' did that before you started on your tangent?

If it was on another thread, you should go cry me a river there...no one was talking about your poor masoom kuuptaan here aka Mr. Aggressiveness
 
Can you imagine the vitriol from the Indian fans if they had won and the pitch had been graded as poor. That victim complex would have been allover every forum.
 
Bewal Express said:
Can you imagine the vitriol from the Indian fans if they had won and the pitch had been graded as poor. That victim complex would have been allover every forum.
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As if that ever stops, anyway...in their mind (brain washed by media, BCCI, fake Nationalism by corrupt politicians etc.) they are the best ever, not just in cricket but everything!

You rarely see an Indian poster (I have been at many forums in past) who is really willing to accept the ground realities
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Its all nice to be passionate about this bro but I am afraid you are 100% wrong on this.

Kohli got out cos he didn't do the basics right for that ball which is to cover the line. He kept doing the basics right for every ball uptil that time and that delivery he didn't do.

Just go to my "Batting was the major culprit" thread and see the exact quotes Kohli gave.

He too says he should have played that line.

And yes, no name domestic cricketers of yesteryears would have played that ball just fine.

Let's not give excuses for bad technical game. All of our batsmen didn't even do the basics right and they have no rights to whine about the pitch. And good thing is, they didn't.

They accepted their mistakes like a champ and went about it.
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A batsman cannot be alert always. If that is the case a "great" (or "perfect" batman as people are demanding here) would always be "not out" in every innings! Batsman will make mistake! And such pitches doesn't give any chance! That Kohli ball had furious pace (reflected from the pitch). On any other pitch the ball would have at least slowed down a bit. You cannot expect batsman to be 100% careful always.

Yes full marks to Indian team for not blaming anything for this (I don't think any other team has this great attitude! This I am telling not just because it happened in India and they want to guard BCCI. I think they have maintained the same attitude on overseas tours too! Never complained about the pitch even at brutal time! During those whitewashes! Even during poor umpiring, they just didn't make much noise) I can just imagine the havoc if this case was reversed, and Australia were on the receiving end!

All I am doing is backing our batsmen & condemning the act of ridiculing them for the mistakes (on such pitches). I know you are one among the few people who have high regards & right intensions about Indian batting and expected better show from them! That's fine.
 
Monsee said:
Can you advise which post 'in this thread' did that before you started on your tangent?

If it was on another thread, you should go cry me a river there...no one was talking about your poor masoom kuuptaan here aka Mr. Aggressiveness
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Your reply says it all! Everyone goes through tough days, he doesn't need those "poor" consolations. He can stand by himself and get big!
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You start off with "its not inferiority complex but" and then you go to prove what my statement.

Why is spin any lesser than pace?

Did this pitch have up and down bounce? No.

Was this pitch dangerous for the batsmen? No.

Did this pitch take a lot of turn too early? Yes.

Was that against ICC pitch rules? Yes.

So was it fair to call this pitch poor? According to rules, yes.
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Care to show me the link of such rules?
 
RamLakhan said:
A batsman cannot be alert always. If that is the case a "great" (or "perfect" batman as people are demanding here) would always be "not out" in every innings! Batsman will make mistake! And such pitches doesn't give any chance! That Kohli ball had furious pace (reflected from the pitch). On any other pitch the ball would have at least slowed down a bit. You cannot expect batsman to be 100% careful always.

Yes full marks to Indian team for not blaming anything for this (I don't think any other team has this great attitude! This I am telling not just because it happened in India and they want to guard BCCI. I think they have maintained the same attitude on overseas tours too! Never complained about the pitch even at brutal time! During those whitewashes! Even during poor umpiring, they just didn't make much noise) I can just imagine the havoc if this case was reversed, and Australia were on the receiving end!

All I am doing is backing our batsmen & condemning the act of ridiculing them for the mistakes (on such pitches). I know you are one among the few people who have high regards & right intensions about Indian batting and expected better show from them! That's fine.
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We must back our bats sure but the mistakes they made were shocking.

If Indian batsmen did their basics right and still got out, then its ok.

But we batted like gully mohallah level bats by not covering the line, bat behind pads, not getting fully front or backward which was needed to survive on that pitch.

Some of our bats did the basics right for a short while before making a costly mistake.

I believe this is a learning experience and hope we do sort it out and not brush this fiasco aside as just a bad pitch.

Saurav said:
Care to show me the link of such rules?
Click to expand...

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/92615/iccs-guidelines-for-rating-test-match-pitches
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
We must back our bats sure but the mistakes they made were shocking.

If Indian batsmen did their basics right and still got out, then its ok.

But we batted like gully mohallah level bats by not covering the line, bat behind pads, not getting fully front or backward which was needed to survive on that pitch.

Some of our bats did the basics right for a short while before making a costly mistake.

I believe this is a learning experience and hope we do sort it out and not brush this fiasco aside as just a bad pitch.



http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/92615/iccs-guidelines-for-rating-test-match-pitches
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Thanks.Very interesting and eye opening

So basically,a patta where 700 plays 600 and match ends in tame draw can never be rated as poor.It is only when it offers excessive turn or seam movement is it poor,even if it produces result without being dangerous.Still don't remember any pitch rated poor for seam movement too

It also says this :

"There is nothing wrong with a pitch that affords some degree of turn on the first day of a match though anything more than occasional unevenness of bounce at this stage of the match is not acceptable. It is to be expected that a pitch will turn steadily more as a match progresses, and it is recognised that a greater degree of unevenness of bounce may develop."

I didn't watch much of day 1 but was the turn more than say a Chennai 2013 pitch.How was the bounce like?
 
It is a poor pitch.

Ideally, the pitch should offer only slight turn for the first 3 days.. It can turn square on Day-4 and Day-5.

This pitch not only was offering turn, but the uneven bounce off good length for spinners was the death blow to the batsmen.

Okeefe quickly realized it and bowled fast and straight. The pitch did the rest. Indian batsmen played scared hiding thier bat behind pads and hoping for the best.

Ash/Jaddu/Lyon bowled out side off in the rough and they were beating the bat by miles. But never got the success that Okeefe got.

These kinds of pitches do not need any skills for spinners. All they had to do was bowl straight and watch the batsman play like jokers.
 
Saurav said:
Thanks.Very interesting and eye opening

So basically,a patta where 700 plays 600 and match ends in tame draw can never be rated as poor.It is only when it offers excessive turn or seam movement is it poor,even if it produces result without being dangerous.Still don't remember any pitch rated poor for seam movement too

It also says this :

"There is nothing wrong with a pitch that affords some degree of turn on the first day of a match though anything more than occasional unevenness of bounce at this stage of the match is not acceptable. It is to be expected that a pitch will turn steadily more as a match progresses, and it is recognised that a greater degree of unevenness of bounce may develop."

I didn't watch much of day 1 but was the turn more than say a Chennai 2013 pitch.How was the bounce like?
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2013 Chennai had consistent turn and bounce from ball 1. Ashwin got Warner to edge on his 3rd ball (he came after 10-15 overs) if I remember correctly only to be dropped by Sehwag.

This Pune pitch is a bit of a wishy washy pitch that's neither like Chennai 2013, Mumbai 2016 nor like a real rank turner with consistent dangerous spin.

The difference was Chennai 2013 saw scores of 380, 530, 220, 50* and so it wasn't poor pitch.

India got bowled out here so this became a poor pitch.

Also reg seam pitches, Aus pitches can get away due to the bounce technicality. The same way like Chennai 2016 got away. Patta with a bit of bounce. There was a rare instance when a non turning pitch was rated poor. Trent Bridge 2014.
 
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troodon said:
It is a poor pitch.

Ideally, the pitch should offer only slight turn for the first 3 days.. It can turn square on Day-4 and Day-5.

This pitch not only was offering turn, but the uneven bounce off good length for spinners was the death blow to the batsmen.

Okeefe quickly realized it and bowled fast and straight. The pitch did the rest. Indian batsmen played scared hiding thier bat behind pads and hoping for the best.

Ash/Jaddu/Lyon bowled out side off in the rough and they were beating the bat by miles. But never got the success that Okeefe got.

These kinds of pitches do not need any skills for spinners. All they had to do was bowl straight and watch the batsman play like jokers.
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Why is that? Are there rules in place to make sure that pitches are only "flat" for the first 3 days?
 
I admit Pune wasn't as high scoring as Chennai 2013.

Even with proper batting, teams can't score 500 here.

But 250-300 was possible.
 
Sachin136 said:
Why is that? Are there rules in place to make sure that pitches are only "flat" for the first 3 days?
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There are no rules.

If the ball is turning square with uneven bounce from good length area, it is a poor pitch.

All this kind of pitch does is make ordinary spinners look like world beaters. When the pitch is a green mamba, you saw what Binny did to Bangladesh with the ball. You want skill to flourish. Not mediocrity.

With the ball turning slightly off the pitch, it gives spinners a chance in the first 3 days to get wickets. I am not advocating flat beds.
 
troodon said:
There are no rules.

If the ball is turning square with uneven bounce from good length area, it is a poor pitch.

All this kind of pitch does is make ordinary spinners look like world beaters. When the pitch is a green mamba, you saw what Binny did to Bangladesh with the ball. You want skill to flourish. Not mediocrity.

With the ball turning slightly off the pitch, it gives spinners a chance in the first 3 days to get wickets. I am not advocating flat beds.
Click to expand...

Why is that only for bowlers?We have seen many mediocre bats get big tons
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I admit Pune wasn't as high scoring as Chennai 2013.

Even with proper batting, teams can't score 500 here.

But 250-300 was possible.
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Aus did score that against higher rated spinners

O'Keefe wickets were due to poor batting than the pitch.

We could have scored even more considering we are rated better players of spin than Aus atleast,as poor as we oursleves are :))
 
Saurav said:
Aus did score that against higher rated spinners

O'Keefe wickets were due to poor batting than the pitch.

We could have scored even more considering we are rated better players of spin than Aus atleast,as poor as we oursleves are :))
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500 in an innings I mean.
 
Spin is most definitely inferior to pace. Fast bowlers are the superstars of cricket, spinners are nowhere close to popularity or effectiveness. They also require more assistance from the pitch, in order to be effective, partly why there have only been two bonafide ATG spinners in the history of cricket.

A green seamer is good because if the batsmen manage to get past the initial day or two, the pitch gets a little easier to bat on. A rank turner that turns from day one will only get worse.

Also, India have been guilty of laying out such awful pitches for a while now and deserve to be under the spotlight. The pitches Pakistan got in New Zealand were poor too but that was a one off and New Zealand generally prepares sporting wickets.
 
Spin is less effective than pace.

But that can't be used to justify what is happening in the world.

If a pitch has exaggerated swing early on and the games get over by 3 days, according to rules, its a poor pitch.

With that being said, I DO NOT want such pitches to be called poor cos cricket needs its variety and NZ pitches in general haven't been that way.

Also if heavy turners are to be called poor pitches (not that I have a problem with this per se), then so should ultra flat tracks.

To support the case against one and not against another is not fair.

Chennai 2016 was a TRULY poor pitch. Most of Aussie pitches are truly poor. But they don't get rated as one just cos they have some decent carry which is ridiculous. A turner will produce far more exciting games by bringing in all bowlers (pacers and spinners) than a flatty where batsmen can pile on runs and wickets mostly fall due to mistakes/scoreboard pressure.

This same Pune pitch would NOT have been rated poor by ICC had India scored 300. Proof of that lies in the fact that none of the turners where the scores have been high have been called poor.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Also if heavy turners are to be called poor pitches (not that I have a problem with this per se), then so should ultra flat tracks.

To support the case against one and not against another is not fair.

Chennai 2016 was a TRULY poor pitch. Most of Aussie pitches are truly poor. But they don't get rated as one just cos they have some decent carry which is ridiculous. A turner will produce far more exciting games by bringing in all bowlers (pacers and spinners) than a flatty where batsmen can pile on runs and wickets mostly fall due to mistakes/scoreboard pressure.
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An ultra flat track isn't what the Aussies serve up though, it's something like the Trent Bridge pitch for the 1st England v India test in 2014. No notable swing, no notable spin and more or less no carry or bounce at all for the bowlers.
 
Bilal7 said:
Spin is most definitely inferior to pace. Fast bowlers are the superstars of cricket, spinners are nowhere close to popularity or effectiveness. They also require more assistance from the pitch, in order to be effective, partly why there have only been two bonafide ATG spinners in the history of cricket.

A green seamer is good because if the batsmen manage to get past the initial day or two, the pitch gets a little easier to bat on. A rank turner that turns from day one will only get worse.

Also, India have been guilty of laying out such awful pitches for a while now and deserve to be under the spotlight. The pitches Pakistan got in New Zealand were poor too but that was a one off and New Zealand generally prepares sporting wickets.
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Those two ATGs are most successful bowlers too

Maybe its just me,but I would rather Warne all day than any ATG pacer
 
HitWicket said:
An ultra flat track isn't what the Aussies serve up though, it's something like the Trent Bridge pitch for the 1st England v India test in 2014. No notable swing, no notable spin and more or less no carry or bounce at all for the bowlers.
Click to expand...

Huh?

So the tracks in Australian in the last 3-4 years have been good?

There may be some exceptions but in general, they are poor as hell.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
2013 Chennai had consistent turn and bounce from ball 1. Ashwin got Warner to edge on his 3rd ball (he came after 10-15 overs) if I remember correctly only to be dropped by Sehwag.

This Pune pitch is a bit of a wishy washy pitch that's neither like Chennai 2013, Mumbai 2016 nor like a real rank turner with consistent dangerous spin.

The difference was Chennai 2013 saw scores of 380, 530, 220, 50* and so it wasn't poor pitch.

India got bowled out here so this became a poor pitch.

Also reg seam pitches, Aus pitches can get away due to the bounce technicality. The same way like Chennai 2016 got away. Patta with a bit of bounce. There was a rare instance when a non turning pitch was rated poor. Trent Bridge 2014.
Click to expand...

Trent Bridge was poor pitch?Why?
 
RamLakhan said:
Your reply says it all! Everyone goes through tough days, he doesn't need those "poor" consolations. He can stand by himself and get big!
Click to expand...


I don't think he will be getting any big-ger LOL

He just needs to grow up though, a few of these tense losing matches and you will see the real aggressive guy coming out giving everyone the bird!
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Spin is less effective than pace.

But that can't be used to justify what is happening in the world.

If a pitch has exaggerated swing early on and the games get over by 3 days, according to rules, its a poor pitch.

With that being said, I DO NOT want such pitches to be called poor cos cricket needs its variety and NZ pitches in general haven't been that way.

Also if heavy turners are to be called poor pitches (not that I have a problem with this per se), then so should ultra flat tracks.

To support the case against one and not against another is not fair.

Chennai 2016 was a TRULY poor pitch. Most of Aussie pitches are truly poor. But they don't get rated as one just cos they have some decent carry which is ridiculous. A turner will produce far more exciting games by bringing in all bowlers (pacers and spinners) than a flatty where batsmen can pile on runs and wickets mostly fall due to mistakes/scoreboard pressure.

This same Pune pitch would NOT have been rated poor by ICC had India scored 300. Proof of that lies in the fact that none of the turners where the scores have been high have been called poor.
Click to expand...

I think this poorness has to do with "commercial" interest! Already less revenue from test matches, the organizers lost Saturday & Sunday TV Broadcast! If India happen to lose next match also like this, it will take at least 1 year to restore test cricket interest in India! That's why I suggested to restrict test venues to 5-6 centers in the country, so that they can maintain the "balance" for flatness/turn/seam as you and all are demanding! When test matches are played only in specific "A" centers, then it will also stabilize the revenue from stadiums.
 
Monsee said:
You rarely see an Indian poster (I have been at many forums in past) who is really willing to accept the ground realities
Click to expand...

Wow Bro, you accurately described yourself, you rarely accept the ground realities.. For once I have to give you props, well done bud :pkflag
 
Bewal Express said:
Can you imagine the vitriol from the Indian fans if they had won and the pitch had been graded as poor. That victim complex would have been allover every forum.
Click to expand...

You know what, had India won the match and had people being saying the wicket was doctored, I would have defended the Indian side and said Australia just cant play on a turning wicket. However being on the losing side on such a pitch, I can now see from the other end of the spectrum acknowledge the wicket was bad and for once I agree with Chris board. The wicket was bad, it was becoming practically unplayable by the time India started their first innings and there is no point saying Indian bats played recklessly when the wicket was the one and ONLY reason they lost.............
 
The next match will give the exact answer for whether the pitch was bad or Indian team was bad! But I agree that India did make a tactical mistake of retaining 5 batsmen strategy for this pitch (without reading it). I have a gut feeling that the 6th batsman would have saved the collapse in the 1st innings (Indians were at a reasonable position at 90 odd for 3). Though others may not agree so! Cricket is also a mental game and everything doesn't go with technique (somebody like VVS Laxman excelled in Test Cricket because of this mental strength more than his technique!) India would have got closer to Australian score in the 1st innings, thereby Australia wouldn't have played so freely in their 2nd innings. And the match would have gone lot closer then even if India lost it! At least we would have saved a humiliating defeat such as this. But still the match would have ended within 3 or 3.5 days (And that's not team's fault, it is pitch's!)

India were already playing with a fragile batting lineup. They were witnessing minor batting collapses even in previous test matches (where they were winning). They never had stable openers (once Vijay faded from his prime). This batting lineup is prone to such mega-collapses on bowling-friendly pitches. If you have to play with 5 batsmen, it is a must that all 5 are solid-bats (and WK bat should also be decent). But India has 2 inconsistent openers, Rahane's spin problems. Pujara is also marginally consistent. So only left with Kohli. That's dangerous! Indians should select their team based on pitches and conditions (and not on goodwill basis)
 
Bewal Express said:
Can you imagine the vitriol from the Indian fans if they had won and the pitch had been graded as poor. That victim complex would have been allover every forum.
Click to expand...

Exactly, SA also had deplorable pitches I refuse to see this as a mere coincidence.
England, NZ & Bangladesh were served different pitches. Clearly something is up.
I suppose beating SA & Aus at whatever cost does out way the negative publicity from the press un their perspective.
I understand the appeal of dismantling and humiliating two of the greatest Test nations of all time, however it must be done right. Yes India gets thrashed black and blue in these two nations but it's done so on proper wickets.

This young Indian side had an opportunity to thrash and humiliate a declining number 1 side. They got desperate and altered conditions to the point they couldn't even score in their own conditions. All the shine of beating the number 1 side was taken away. They could have easily thrashed. SA 4-0 with similar pitches served for England. Their visit to SA later this year could have been greeted with anticipation, excitement and mutual respect. Instead the feeling around the country is so what if they are coming over here. They're not rated in this country at all which is sad.
 
Last edited:
Romali_rotti said:
Wow Bro, you accurately described yourself, you rarely accept the ground realities.. For once I have to give you props, well done bud :pkflag
Click to expand...



For once, come up with something original, I know being Indian you have it in the genes :-P
 
Romali_rotti said:
You know what, had India won the match and had people being saying the wicket was doctored, I would have defended the Indian side and said Australia just cant play on a turning wicket. However being on the losing side on such a pitch, I can now see from the other end of the spectrum acknowledge the wicket was bad and for once I agree with Chris board. The wicket was bad, it was becoming practically unplayable by the time India started their first innings and there is no point saying Indian bats played recklessly when the wicket was the one and ONLY reason they lost.............
Click to expand...

surely you are seeing the hypocrisy in this post...
 
Romali_rotti said:
Not sure I follow you here...
Click to expand...

Romali_rotti said:
You know what, had India won the match and had people being saying the wicket was doctored, I would have defended the Indian side and said Australia just cant play on a turning wicket. However being on the losing side on such a pitch, I can now see from the other end of the spectrum acknowledge the wicket was bad and for once I agree with Chris board. The wicket was bad, it was becoming practically unplayable by the time India started their first innings and there is no point saying Indian bats played recklessly when the wicket was the one and ONLY reason they lost.............
Click to expand...

For years here you have rubbished opinion which has suggested that the haplessness of foreign batsmen at times (esp in SA series) was due to the pitch lottery.

The standard responses were:
'Its home advantage. Why should we prepare friendly wickets'
'Learn how to play spin and stop whining'
'Both teams play on same pitch'
and on and on.....

Now that the tables have turned for that one match the 'wicket was the one and ONLY reason' for the loss?

Are you willing to disregrd the 3-0 over Saffers and the 4-0 over Australia as they also came on such wickets?
 
Bewal Express said:
Can you imagine the vitriol from the Indian fans if they had won and the pitch had been graded as poor. That victim complex would have been allover every forum.
Click to expand...

If India had won, the only vitriol would have been from the haters who would have said the pitch was the culprit and it had nothing to do with India exploiting the conditions better to win the match. The fact of the matter is if a pitch is bad, then it is bad for both teams and the team which exploits it better will win. SA didn't do that and lost while Australia did exactly that and won. This logic is what Indian fans have been saying but fallen into deaf ears.
 
Bengaluru said:
If India had won, the only vitriol would have been from the haters who would have said the pitch was the culprit and it had nothing to do with India exploiting the conditions better to win the match. The fact of the matter is if a pitch is bad, then it is bad for both teams and the team which exploits it better will win. SA didn't do that and lost while Australia did exactly that and won.This logic is what Indian fans have been saying but fallen into deaf ears.
Click to expand...

You mean like this?

Romali_rotti said:
...there is no point saying Indian bats played recklessly when the wicket was the one and ONLY reason they lost.............
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
If anything then this pitch is not worse than Pune. Lyon got 8 wickets with turn and bounce but when Indian spinners were bowling there was hardly any turn or bounce? I think the fault is with the Indian spinners not using the conditions properly rather than having anything to do with the pitch. 3 of the 6 Aussie wickets have fallen to seamers and could have been a couple more to Ishant and Yadav had it not been for a no-ball and dropped catches. Pitch is fine.
 
What's the penalty for laying out two poor pitches in a row?
 
Slog said:
For years here you have rubbished opinion which has suggested that the haplessness of foreign batsmen at times (esp in SA series) was due to the pitch lottery.

The standard responses were:
'Its home advantage. Why should we prepare friendly wickets'
'Learn how to play spin and stop whining'
'Both teams play on same pitch'
and on and on.....

Now that the tables have turned for that one match the 'wicket was the one and ONLY reason' for the loss?

Are you willing to disregrd the 3-0 over Saffers and the 4-0 over Australia as they also came on such wickets?
Click to expand...

First of all don't get your panties in a twist so fast, the wickets which SA & Aus got previously were turning wickets (home field advantage) nothing wrong with that. However the wickets prepared for this series are just minefields which is pathetic, there is a big difference between an under prepared wicket and a turning track....
 
Shambolic pitches laid out in this series so far both the grounds should face necessary sanctions. Ordinary bowlers getting butt-load of wickets and masquerading their true worth.
 
Romali_rotti said:
First of all don't get your panties in a twist so fast, the wickets which SA & Aus got previously were turning wickets (home field advantage) nothing wrong with that. However the wickets prepared for this series are just minefields which is pathetic, there is a big difference between an under prepared wicket and a turning track....
Click to expand...

yeah the SA wickets were fine but these are the minefields :)))
 
Slog said:
yeah the SA wickets were fine but these are the minefields :)))
Click to expand...

When India win on crumbling pitches, it's home advantage. When they get thrashed like in Pune, it's sub standard pitches.
 
If you can have pitches were both teams score 600...why not have ones where neither can score 300?
 
Slog said:
yeah the SA wickets were fine but these are the minefields :)))
Click to expand...

Damn straight!!!!! IF the home side cant put bat on ball with the opposition also struggling in general shows how bad the wicket is....
 
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