"Compare Virat Kohli with Babar Azam, not me" : Umar Akmal

[Abdullah719]

Sharjah: Pakistan’s hard-hitter Umar Akmal does not fancy to be compared to India’s star batsman Virat Kohli. He has a reason behind it. Whenever he has played match-winning knocks many have compared him to Kohli.

Speaking after his match-winning knock for Lahore Qalandars against Islamabad United in which he cracked a breezy 66, he said: “When people compare me with Kohli, it’s a matter of number. Since Kohli’s debut he is batting at number three and I have been batting at number six. Let me play at No. 3 slot and him on six then compare me with him.”

Interestingly, 28-year-old Kohli is two years older than Akmal and has scored 4,451 runs from 54 Test matches. Akmal has got to play only in 16 Test matches for 1003 runs. In One Day Internationals Akmal has 3,044 runs from 116 matches to Kohli’s 7,755 runs from 179 matches. Though Kohli had made his international debut only one year before Akmal, Kohli has played more matches.

“Compare Kohli with Babar Azam who is doing well on three, he is in great form so you can compare him with Babar and not me,” said Akmal.

Interestingly, Azam is Akmal’s cousin and is hailed as Pakistan’s rising cricketer.

Akmal after his match winning knock was praised by his skipper and legendary batsman Brendon McCullum. “Akmal is a huge player for us. He’s a good strong leader in the field as well,” said McCullum who sportingly hailed Islamabad’s fightback.

“It was a brilliant game to be part of, just like the other day when we scored 200. This time we came out the right side. It was tough to separate the two teams. Congratulations to Misbah and his guys as well. [Grant] Elliott is another key player, he showed us why he’s world class. We’ve to give credit to the opposition for taking it deep into the game. But we managed to achieve it today, not too worried about the margin of victory.”

http://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/p...ompare-kohli-with-azam-not-me-akmal-1.1982090

 

[MenInG]

Deep Thinker Alert.

Abdullah that Avatar of yours is looking is a statement on this article?

 

[Adil_94]

how about not putting Babar under that pressure in comparing him to someone like Kohli so early on in his career and let him develop as he is.

 

[Syed1]

Way to throwing your own flesh and blood under the bus

 

[Abdullah719]

Deep Thinker Alert.

Abdullah that Avatar of yours is looking is a statement on this article?

It works for almost everything related to Pakistan cricket.

To be fair, I don't understand why journalists must always throw around such comparisons.

 

[rhony]

His explanation was very funny. To compare him with Kohli, he wants to bat and 3 and then have Kohli bat at 6. Why?

 

[Madplayer]

Umar akmal at his best.

"Why you comparing me with kohli? Meri jaan choro. babar ke peeche pado."

 

[Mamoon]

So two batsmen cannot be compared unless they bat at the same position. You learn something new every day.

 

[zulfiqar]

legendary batsman Brendam McCullum, I LOL'd pretty hard at that hahahaha

 

[Black Zero]

His explanation was very funny. To compare him with Kohli, he wants to bat and 3 and then have Kohli bat at 6. Why?

Actually he is pointing that comparison is a funny one as both play at different positions.

best player at #3 will always beat best player at #6.

 

[Markhor]

Speaking after his match-winning knock for Lahore Qalandars against Islamabad United in which he cracked a breezy 66, he said: “When people compare me with Kohli, it’s a matter of number. Since Kohli’s debut he is batting at number three and I have been batting at number six. Let me play at No. 3 slot and him on six then compare me with him.”

You've been batting 3 or 4 throughout this tournament so shut up about your batting position.

Virat Kohli is arguably the fittest cricketer in this world, one of the best runners between the wickets, one of the hardest working cricketers in the world, equally adept against both pace and spin, and has an exceptional ability to construct an innings.

Whereas you are a 1 in 4 cricketer at best and obese with a string of fitness test failures. First work on losing some of that 91kg then we'll see about Kohli comparisons.

For the record, Kohli averages 47 in the 11 Tests he's played at #6.

 

[rhony]

Actually he is pointing that comparison is a funny one as both play at different positions.

best player at #3 will always beat best player at #6.

I get that. He should have said that we should compare him to Kohli when both bat at 3. Instead, he said he should bat at 3 and Kohli should bat at 6. That was funny

 

[Tekcirc]

His explanation was very funny. To compare him with Kohli, he wants to bat and 3 and then have Kohli bat at 6. Why?

He meant Babar Azam. He wants to bat at 3 to be compared to Kohli. Honestly there is some truth to it too.
How can you compare a lower middle order position to top order. Akmal should be compared to likes of Dhoni for apples to apples comparison

 

[in_cutter]

Nobody is comparable to Kohli. Remember the Kohli vs Akmal thread

 

[rhony]

He meant Babar Azam. He wants to bat at 3 to be compared to Kohli. Honestly there is some truth to it too.
How can you compare a lower middle order position to top order. Akmal should be compared to likes of Dhoni for apples to apples comparison

Let me play at No. 3 slot and him on six then compare me with him.

That's what he said. It indicates that he did a very good job at 6 and is confident that Kohli will not match his exploits at 6. He also thinks that he can do better than Kohli at 3. He actually thinks he is a better player than Kohli.

 

[Pakpak]

Mentioning Akmal and Kohli in the same sentence is an insult to the latter.

 

[ali2220]

Let me play at No. 3 slot and him on six then compare me with him.

That's what he said. It indicates that he did a very good job at 6 and is confident that Kohli will not match his exploits at 6. He also thinks that he can do better than Kohli at 3. He actually thinks he is a better player than Kohli.

What else was he suppose to say? he is being constantly compared with kohli, so he had to find some excuse.
Umar might be a lowsy player, but its the people who are comparing such players with kohli who are at fault.

 

[Hasan123]

Kohli should not be compared to any Pakistan batsmen. He is vastly superior.

 

[Slog]

Few things will be same till qayamat:

- Sun will rise everyday
- Umar Akmal will complain about his batting position

Never understood Umar's logic btw. He cant do well batting at a lower number but that is why he should be promoted up the order and kept in the team rather than be kicked out. What's the plan. Keep playing him in different positions till he is happy and starts scoring runs? And less said about his fanbois the better.

 

[proud_pakistani]

He sort of has a point. You can perhaps compare batsmen who bat between 3-5 but 6 is way too big a gap and requires completely different strategy.

Nehow these comparisons were good 3-4 years back, Kohli has over taken Akmal by miles with Kohli being the undisputed King of batting. This comparison reminds me of 2 footballer- Cristiano Ronaldo and Ricardo Quaresma. Both were earmarked to being superstars as youngsters. Some even felt Quaresma would end up being better than Ronaldo but Ronaldo overtook everyone with his sheer hard work and dedication which is exactly what Kohli has. Quaresma tho in my opinion more skillful has same issues like Umar Akmal. Overweight, lack of hunger and happy to settle with one good performance every now and then.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Somebody compared him to Kohli or he brought it up?

 

[ali2220]

Somebody compared him to Kohli or he brought it up?

He was compared to Kohli by someone.

 

[Black Zero]

I get that. He should have said that we should compare him to Kohli when both bat at 3. Instead, he said he should bat at 3 and Kohli should bat at 6. That was funny

maybe he over did it...but basically he is implying that if Kohli play at #6, he would have worse stats.

bottom line: UA is bitter but he got a point.

 

[Barragan]

He is right, you can't compare a number 3 to number 6.

Two totally different positions and circumstances.

 

[Mamoon]

He is right, you can't compare a number 3 to number 6.

Two totally different positions and circumstances.

But you can spot a top player from a mediocre player irrespective of batting position. Tendulkar is a better ODI batter than Misbah in spite of the different positions and circumstances in which they batted, the difference between Kohli and Umar is pretty much as big as the difference between Tendulkar and Misbah.

Nonetheless, can't blame Umar for this. He didn't compare himself to Kohli and was asked about it. Of course, he couldn't say that please don't compare us because he is an ATG in the making and I am just an average player these days, so he had to come up with this batting position excuse. I don't know why people keep asking him questions like these, it has always been clear that he is not smart enough to not look foolish when backed into a corner.

 

[ali2220]

But you can spot a top player from a mediocre player irrespective of batting position. Tendulkar is a better ODI batter than Misbah in spite of the different positions and circumstances in which they batted, the difference between Kohli and Umar is pretty much as big as the difference between Tendulkar and Misbah.

Nonetheless, can't blame Umar for this. He didn't compare himself to Kohli and was asked about it. Of course, he couldn't say that please don't compare us because he is an ATG in the making and I am just an average player these days, so he had to come up with this batting position excuse. I don't know why people keep asking him questions like these, it has always been clear that he is not smart enough to not look foolish when backed into a corner.

Because they started the career at the same time, so very intelligent thinking on the part of person asking such a question.

 

[Mamoon]

Because they started the career at the same time, so very intelligent thinking on the part of person asking such a question.

This has been an irrelevant comparison since 2012. That person is about 5 years too late.

 

[Barragan]

But you can spot a top player from a mediocre player irrespective of batting position. Tendulkar is a better ODI batter than Misbah in spite of the different positions and circumstances in which they batted, the difference between Kohli and Umar is pretty much as big as the difference between Tendulkar and Misbah.

Nonetheless, can't blame Umar for this. He didn't compare himself to Kohli and was asked about it. Of course, he couldn't say that please don't compare us because he is an ATG in the making and I am just an average player these days, so he had to come up with this batting position excuse. I don't know why people keep asking him questions like these, it has always been clear that he is not smart enough to not look foolish when backed into a corner.

Highly doubt, someone who was a top 10 ODI player can be termed as "mediocre".

Compared to Kohli, many can look average, but that doesn't mean Akmal is "mediocre".

 

[Mamoon]

Highly doubt, someone who was a top 10 ODI player can be termed as "mediocre".

Compared to Kohli, many can look average, but that doesn't mean Akmal is "mediocre".

I'm talking about the present. At the moment, Umar is a mediocre international cricketer, while Kohli is on his way to becoming a legend.

Yes Umar had/has the potential to become a very fine player.

 

[Barragan]

I'm talking about the present. At the moment, Umar is a mediocre international cricketer, while Kohli is on his way to becoming a legend.

Yes Umar had/has the potential to become a very fine player.

This is the reason why he is being compared to Kohli.

To say he is "mediocre", implies he doesn't have any potential or never gave a good account of himself (despite averaging near 40 for 70 matches and breaking into the top 10 rankings).

We haven't seen the best of Akmal in ODI's recently, but that is partly because he has already reached his ceiling at no. 6 and can't push any further from there.

 

[AFM]

Umar Akmal reminding PP that there is a 'Babar vs Umar' thread missing. Someone get on it so Babar goes on to surpass Kohli and win us the CT this summer

 

[Rayyman]

Umar Akmal reminding PP that there is a 'Babar vs Umar' thread missing. Someone get on it so Babar goes on to surpass Kohli and win us the CT this summer

There is one already.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Umar-Akmal-vs-Babar-Azam-The-vagary-of-talent

 

[msb314]

Deep Thinker Alert.

Abdullah that Avatar of yours is looking is a statement on this article?

What Umar Akmal is trying to say is that he wants to bat at number 3!

 

[WC-Passion]

If he actually trained hard and lost his extra weight, while maintaining form at 6 that he had up until that dreaded SA tour in 2013 he would be close. If you look at the graph that was posted with a comparison of Kohli Shehzad and Umar, you would see Umar was doing slightly better than Kohli. Obviously those numbers wouldn't be exactly the same now but he'd still be Pakistan's best batsmen while averaging 40-45. He can only make excuses now because of his poor decision making on and off the field along with his bad attitude.

 

[PakLFC]

Babar, Umar or any other Pak batsman can't hold a candle to Virat Kohli. The Indian lad plays on a different level to our overrated and third rate batsman. I think Umar is being sarcastic when saying Babar should be compared to Kohli.

 

[Rayyman]

Babar, Umar or any other Pak batsman can't hold a candle to Virat Kohli. The Indian lad plays on a different level to our overrated and third rate batsman. I think Umar is being sarcastic when saying Babar should be compared to Kohli.

Obviously Azam and Kohli can't be compared b/c Kohli is more experienced and older. If you compare Azam and young Kohli, then Azam has better stats.

 

[rhony]

Because they started the career at the same time, so very intelligent thinking on the part of person asking such a question.

I think the press is trying to antogonize him just to get a kick out of it. Now that he mentioned Babar, they'll probably ask him going forward

 

[rhony]

Obviously Azam and Kohli can't be compared b/c Kohli is more experienced and older. If you compare Azam and young Kohli, then Azam has better stats.

Azam has better stats and looks very matured compared to Kohli at that age. Kohli's progression was drastic after the 2013 WC and Babar can match or even exceed that if he is as focussed as Kohli.

 

[EliteCynical]

Genuine Question - Is it possible to change Umar Akmal's outlook towards the game and make him realize his potential? Sometimes you may need to do danda to get kids disciplined. Who in Pakistan/World has the potential to be able to make this happen?

 

[Abidi110]

Azam has better stats and looks very matured compared to Kohli at that age. Kohli's progression was drastic after the 2013 WC and Babar can match or even exceed that if he is as focussed as Kohli.

Maybe i'm wrong, but i think it isn't possible. Babar can do better than him in test but in onedayer its nearly impossible.

 

[IAJ]

Lol, rubbish comment from a now rubbish cricketer.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Azam has better stats and looks very matured compared to Kohli at that age. Kohli's progression was drastic after the 2013 WC and Babar can match or even exceed that if he is as focussed as Kohli.

Agreed. BA looks more composed for his age, he can definitely match Abd / Kohli exploits if he stays fit in odi's.

 

[NauV]

I can't with this guy!! It is incredible . . . He is delusional or what?! Forget the number, look at the situation/circumstance . . how many times has he come out to bat in like the 20th and 25th over . . many! how many of those innings have been converted to 100s? or even 70s? Its ridiculous!! absolutely preposterous . . .

" You can either have excuses in life or results " . . .

 

[NauV]

For the record, yes, Umar Akmal you're right!

Kohli is the best batsman of his generation . . and may well go on to become the greatest ever batsman to have played the game . .

You, on the other hand . . . were a talented batsman . . who did absolutely nothing with his talent! Didn't take the game seriously! Didn't work hard enough . . and hence . . you're just a mediocre batsman!

 

[SL_Fan]

Compare Virat Kohli With Me When He Bats At No.6, Says Umar Akmal

While Virat Kohli has taken his game to the next level, Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad continue to struggle. Akmal has now hit out at those who compare his record with that of the Indian captain. According to the Pakistani right-hander, comparisons with Kohli are unfair because the Indian skipper bats at the number three position.

Pakistan have, in recent years, struggled to make a consistent impact in international cricket. While their bowlers have almost always delivered, it is the batting that has let the team down. Despite boasting of the requisite skill and talent, Pakistani batsmen somehow fail to deliver the goods when it matters most. Two batsmen in particular - Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad - have been severely criticised by the fans for not converting their potential into performance. The two have often been compared to Virat Kohli especially since they started their careers together.

While Kohli has taken his game to the next level, Akmal and Shehzad continue to struggle. Akmal has now hit out at those who compare his record with that of the Indian captain. According to the Pakistani right-hander, comparisons with Kohli are unfair because the Indian skipper bats at the number three position.
"When people compare me with Kohli, it's not fair. It's a matter of batting positions. Since his debut, he is batting at No. 3 and I have been playing at No. 6. Let me play at 3 and Kohli at 6, then compare me with him," Akmal told Wisden India.

The 26-year-old said comparing Kohli and Babar Azam would make a lot more sense as they bat at similar positions.

"Compare him with Babar Azam, who is doing well at 3. He is in great form, so you can compare him with Babar," Akmal added.

Akmal has registered just two centuries in 116 in ODIs, while Kohli has cracked 27 hundreds in 179 matches. The Delhi batsman has a superior record in T20Is as well.

Kohli has showcased his brilliance at the Test level too, while Akmal is not part of Pakistan's side in whites.

Link

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Lose 15 kg weight. Focus on it otherwise Mickey Arthur will drop you for fitness issues precisely.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It doesn't work like that.

Umar Akmal should be compared with Babar Azam first so that Babar can become one of the best in the world. After that Babar should be compared with Kohli.

 

[Monsee]

Akmal after his match winning knock was praised by his skipper and legendary batsman Brendon McCullum. “Akmal is a huge player for us. He’s a good strong leader in the field as well,” said McCullum who sportingly hailed Islamabad’s fightback.

I see, he didn't want to say 'FAT', so he used the 'huge player' bit LOL

As for his brain power and leadership qualities, less said the better...I am still reminded of the video he posted eating a piece of hail and acting as if it is something very precious etc. Learned a lot about his mental capacity that day!

I wish they (PCB) would put him in a rehab program to loose some weight fast or stop picking him...it is really a disgrace when we have players almost twice his age fit as a rock

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Genuine Question - Is it possible to change Umar Akmal's outlook towards the game and make him realize his potential? Sometimes you may need to do danda to get kids disciplined. Who in Pakistan/World has the potential to be able to make this happen?

The only person he'd probably listen to is Inzi.

 

[waqar goraya]

I don't know why Pakistani journalists can't move on. This was a stupid question to begin with and Umar as usual could not handle it wisely.

I watched his last innings. There has always been a question mark over his temperament and lack of application but the even more worrisome thing about his batting is his limitations and fragility against spin bowling. His defense is weak and his scoring options are either limited or risky. Tries to play too many cuts even to the balls which are not short enough, seldom gets to the pitch of the ball and does not sweep at all. In a nutshell, he is not even a complete batsman. Comparison with any top class batman is ludicrous, at least at this stage. Although he does have great skill of stroke making but every thing else that batsman-ship demands is missing.

 

[Misia]

they pobably ask him becouse they know his level of eduction isnt up to scratch (not to sy he is uneducated in an way) so will always reply with something silly/stupid.
As we all know silly and stupid always makes good news were as pakistan media is concerned.

 

[dhump]

Who compare him to kholi anyways ??

I need to know really this.

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Why the comparison with Kohli and not Smith/Root/Williamson?

 

[Ankit007]

Sometimes you don't need stats to understand who is better player. Kohli is obviously better than akmal and he too knows it. Let's take MSD for example. He is better than akmal at same spot. He has won India matches, what has akmal done. Now he will say please don't compare me with MSD as he is a wicketkeeper batsman and I am a specialist lower order batsman. He don't have guts to admit that others are better than him.

 

[Statsman]

Umar needs support and backing from the management, number 3 spot (if he fails there, then opener's), some motivation, protein shake and good batting partners. That's it.

Or he just needs to stick around with the team for a few years until he becomes a "senior player" who deserves respect.

 

[EliteCynical]

The only person he'd probably listen to is Inzi.

Ok, then why isn't Inzi telling him anything already? I think one has to change his lifestyle into a military type lifestyle with specific diets at specific times and lots of training and practice with no room for entertainment. I am telling you, the guy would be a different player after that.

 

[Mamoon]

This is the reason why he is being compared to Kohli.

To say he is "mediocre", implies he doesn't have any potential or never gave a good account of himself (despite averaging near 40 for 70 matches and breaking into the top 10 rankings).

We haven't seen the best of Akmal in ODI's recently, but that is partly because he has already reached his ceiling at no. 6 and can't push any further from there.

He cannot be compared to Kohli anymore just because he has the potential to be a good player. One of the main misconceptions regarding Umar is that he had the ability to surpass Kohli but his attitude and the mismanagement of the PCB let him down. I think that is nonsense. Sure he has under-performed, but he was never in Kohli's class to begin with. In other words, he didn't have ATG level potential.

It is fair to call Umar mediocre because so far, he has had a mediocre career and it is his 8th year in international cricket. His stats are ordinary and he doesn't have many notable performances either. Let's see if he can turn this mediocre career into a good, because he still has time.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Sometimes it is just easy to accept that Kohli is once in a generation batsman whereas Akmal and Shehzad are just mediocre batsmen who looked good in the beginning but were exposed after playing more matches.

 

[Chrish]

So two batsmen cannot be compared unless they bat at the same position. You learn something new every day.

In a way it's kinda true.. batting position should always be considered when comparison is made

 

[Mamoon]

In a way it's kinda true.. batting position should always be considered when comparison is made

Only when the quality of the two players is comparable. The difference between a potential ATG and a mediocre player is so great that the batting position/role becomes insignificant. However, if you are comparing to ATGs, then you have to consider these factors.

 

[Barragan]

He cannot be compared to Kohli anymore just because he has the potential to be a good player. One of the main misconceptions regarding Umar is that he had the ability to surpass Kohli but his attitude and the mismanagement of the PCB let him down. I think that is nonsense. Sure he has under-performed, but he was never in Kohli's class to begin with. In other words, he didn't have ATG level potential.

It is fair to call Umar mediocre because so far, he has had a mediocre career and it is his 8th year in international cricket. His stats are ordinary and he doesn't have many notable performances either. Let's see if he can turn this mediocre career into a good, because he still has time.

He doesn't need to be in Kohli's class and not many can compete with him, but sill doesn't mean someone is "mediocre".

Also, I like the fact you stand by your ignorant views of him being "mediocre", despite him being a top 10 batsman, averaging near 40 for most part of his career and averaged 37 away from Asia in Tests.

 

[Mamoon]

He doesn't need to be in Kohli's class and not many can compete with him, but sill doesn't mean someone is "mediocre".

Also, I like the fact you stand by your ignorant views of him being "mediocre", despite him being a top 10 batsman, averaging near 40 for most part of his career and averaged 37 away from Asia in Tests.

It is funny how the only defense against Umar is that he was in the top 10 rankings once upon a time. It actually means nothing, except that he was good for some time in his career, which is true because he was good from 2009 to 2013. However, since early 2014, post Asia Cup to be precise, he has been dire. This is now 2017, so what would you call this career so far if not mediocre? His average graph obviously follows the same path.

He was never brilliant though. He was very good initially and then became poor, which means that overall, he has had a pretty mediocre career.

Same goes for his Test career - started with a bang but that average eventually settled into the 30's, but yes we can always dream that his average would have been 50+ had he played all those UAE Tests.

Umar is a mediocre player and that is a fact. A reality that you don't want to accept. Yes he has (or had) the potential to be a very good player but you cannot ride on your potential forever; certainly not after nearly a decade of international cricket. Him being ranked in the top 10 also means nothing in the long run. Hafeez has regularly been ranked as a top all-rounder in LOIs for a while but that does not change the fact that overall, he has had a mediocre career.

When he becomes anything more than mediocre and I hope that he does, I will stop calling him a mediocre player. I'm sorry but I cannot give him points for talent and potential because it has not translated into anything substantial after 8 years. He has been a flat tyre for nearly 50% of his international career.

 

[Barragan]

It is funny how the only defense against Umar is that he was in the top 10 rankings once upon a time. It actually means nothing, except that he was good for some time in his career, which is true because he was good from 2009 to 2013. However, since early 2014, post Asia Cup to be precise, he has been dire. This is now 2017, so what would you call this career so far if not mediocre? His average graph obviously follows the same path.

He was never brilliant though. He was very good initially and then became poor, which means that overall, he has had a pretty mediocre career.

Same goes for his Test career - started with a bang but that average eventually settled into the 30's, but yes we can always dream that his average would have been 50+ had he played all those UAE Tests.

Umar is a mediocre player and that is a fact. A reality that you don't want to accept. Yes he has (or had) the potential to be a very good player but you cannot ride on your potential forever; certainly not after nearly a decade of international cricket. Him being ranked in the top 10 also means nothing in the long run. Hafeez has regularly been ranked as a top all-rounder in LOIs for a while but that does not change the fact that overall, he has had a mediocre career.

When he becomes anything more than mediocre and I hope that he does, I will stop calling him a mediocre player. I'm sorry but I cannot give him points for talent and potential because it has not translated into anything substantial after 8 years. He has been a flat tyre for nearly 50% of his international career.

But you said he had a "mediocre" career, so had to bring up the top 10 rankings.

Also, are you telling me, you don't have to be brilliant to break into the top 10 rankings?

Lastly, he averaged 39 up until 94 matches and that is around 81% of his career.

 

[Mamoon]

But you said he had a "mediocre" career, so had to bring up the top 10 rankings.

Also, are you telling me, you don't have to be brilliant to break into the top 10 rankings?

Lastly, he averaged 39 up until 94 matches and that is around 81% of his career.

What is his ranking now, and when was the last time he was ranked in the top 10?

What are his achievements since the Asia Cup hundred against Afghanistan?

What word will you use to describe his career?

Yeah he had a good average once upon a time, but that was before he became a flat tyre. I was looking at it in terms of years in international cricket. He had an explosive start in 2009, then he was good till 2012, then he had a poor 2013 but did well in 2013-14, but since then, he has been useless. That is pretty much half his career.

'Mediocre' seems the perfect description to me. Calling it 'poor' or 'pathetic' will be harsh because he used to be good once upon a time.

 

[Barragan]

What is his ranking now, and when was the last time he was ranked in the top 10?

What are his achievements since the Asia Cup hundred against Afghanistan?

What word will you use to describe his career?

Yeah he had a good average once upon a time, but that was before he became a flat tyre. I was looking at it in terms of years in international cricket. He had an explosive start in 2009, then he was good till 2012, then he had a poor 2013 but did well in 2013-14, but since then, he has been useless. That is pretty much half his career.

'Mediocre' seems the perfect description to me. Calling it 'poor' or 'pathetic' will be harsh because he used to be good once upon a time.

This is what you said:

he has had a mediocre career

Clearly, you live in denial about his career and that is the point I'm making.

Also, when did 81% become "half a career"?

 

[Mamoon]

This is what you said:


Clearly, you live in denial about his career and that is the point I'm making.

Also, when did 81% become "half a career"?

So now we are going in circles.

How else would you define his career? Please tell me.

He had a good start to his career but he has been useless for years now. How do you want me to define his career?

Again, I'm looking at the number of years since he has made his debut. Obviously when he was not performing such as in 2015 and 2016, he did not get many opportunities to play. When did play in the last two years, he did flop.

He was rubbish in the 2015 World Cup and he did not get to play ODIs again till the Australian tour last month. He played in the WT20 2016 and flopped there as well.

You are looking at it in terms of matches because you do not want to accept that he has been useless during this period and was not good enough to break into the team. The fact is that he has not made any good contributions to the team since 2014.

Your value of 81% does not change that fact.

The only denial is on your part I'm afraid. You are not willing to accept that he has been poor for years and that is down to his own incompetence. He doesn't have the attitude to make it big because more than anything, cricket is a game of character. It is not Misbah's or PCB's fault.

Did they also send him burgers and pizzas due to which he gained weight?

He has made his international debut in 2009 and has been useless since 2014, and now it is 2017, which is 4 years - 2014, 2015, 2016, but yes he is not a mediocre player because he was ranked in the top 10 once upon a time and his average was close to 40 for 81% of the games he has played, never-mind how his average has continued to drop since 2014.

:

 

[Barragan]

So now we are going in circles.

How else would you define his career? Please tell me.

He had a good start to his career but he has been useless for years now. How do you want me to define his career?

Again, I'm looking at the number of years since he has made his debut. Obviously when he was not performing such as in 2015 and 2016, he did not get many opportunities to play. When did play in the last two years, he did flop.

He was rubbish in the 2015 World Cup and he did not get to play ODIs again till the Australian tour last month. He played in the WT20 2016 and flopped there as well.

You are looking at it in terms of matches because you do not want to accept that he has been useless during this period and was not good enough to break into the team. The fact is that he has not made any good contributions to the team since 2014.

Your value of 81% does not change that fact.

The only denial is on your part I'm afraid. You are not willing to accept that he has been poor for years and that is down to his own incompetence. He doesn't have the attitude to make it big because more than anything, cricket is a game of character. It is not Misbah's or PCB's fault.

Did they also send him burgers and pizzas due to which he gained weight?

He has made his international debut in 2009 and has been useless since 2014, and now it is 2017, which is 4 years - 2014, 2015, 2016, but yes he is not a mediocre player because he was ranked in the top 10 once upon a time and his average was close to 40 for 81% of the games he has played, never-mind how his average has continued to drop since 2014.

:

I'm not denying he has tailed-off, but he was dropped and he didn't play much (until recently).

But how is 81% considered "mediocre"?

That would be considered very good to good career.

90% is ATG in their respective countries, whilst 95% as an ATG.

Unless you're Don Bradman, no one has a 100% fine record for most part of their career.

 

[Mamoon]

I'm not denying he has tailed-off, but he was dropped and he didn't play much (until recently).

But how is 81% considered "mediocre"?

That would be considered very good to good career.

90% is ATG in their respective countries, whilst 95% as an ATG.

Unless you're Don Bradman, no one has a 100% fine record for most part of their career.

Just 2 hundreds, hardly a match-winning performance against any big team, not a single knock that still stands out etc. etc., one can go on and on.

I don't buy the batting position excuse because he has arrived at the crease with plenty of overs to go many times, but he has failed to take advantage of that, and has not been able to finish games as well. The amount of times he has been dismissed in the PP overs is ridiculous. His application is zero.

Don't get me wrong, Umar still deserves to play for Pakistan in LOIs. For our standards, he is a good hitter and can play an explosive innings on his day. In fact, with Sharjeel pretty much gone, I would like to see him get tried as an opener because he can give us aggressive starts. He is also decent at number 6, but he is clueless when it comes to constructing an innings so number 3,4 and 5 are not for him.

Nonetheless, let's get real. There is no point in sugar-coating what has been a pretty ordinary career so far, with very few highs and plenty of lows.

 

[Barragan]

Just 2 hundreds, hardly a match-winning performance against any big team, not a single knock that still stands out etc. etc., one can go on and on.

I don't buy the batting position excuse because he has arrived at the crease with plenty of overs to go many times, but he has failed to take advantage of that, and has not been able to finish games as well. The amount of times he has been dismissed in the PP overs is ridiculous. His application is zero.

Don't get me wrong, Umar still deserves to play for Pakistan in LOIs. For our standards, he is a good hitter and can play an explosive innings on his day. In fact, with Sharjeel pretty much gone, I would like to see him get tried as an opener because he can give us aggressive starts. He is also decent at number 6, but he is clueless when it comes to constructing an innings so number 3,4 and 5 are not for him.

Nonetheless, let's get real. There is no point in sugar-coating what has been a pretty ordinary career so far, with very few highs and plenty of lows.

Actually, he has the joint highest number of hundreds at no. 6.

Also, 16 or 17 out his 22 50+ scores have been scored, when he has batted 25+ overs.

 

[Mamoon]

Actually, he has the joint highest number of hundreds at no. 6.

Also, 16 or 17 out his 22 50+ scores have been scored, when he has batted 25+ overs.

Yeah, just like how legend Shafiq has the most number of hundreds at number 6. Doesn't change the fact that he is an inconsistent Test batsman who is nowhere near world class.

If you have time, do list those 16 or 17 50+ scores and see how many overs were left when he got dismissed, and what were his modes of dismissal. You will see that a good number of those 50+ scores could have been converted into 100s had he not thrown his wicket away in customary fashion, or helped Pakistan win matches against quality opposition.

But yes I know, he threw his wicket away time and time again and failed to take Pakistan home while chasing time and time again, because of Misbah's tuk tuk.

 

[Barragan]

Yeah, just like how legend Shafiq has the most number of hundreds at number 6. Doesn't change the fact that he is an inconsistent Test batsman who is nowhere near world class.

If you have time, do list those 16 or 17 50+ scores and see how many overs were left when he got dismissed, and what were his modes of dismissal. You will see that a good number of those 50+ scores could have been converted into 100s had he not thrown his wicket away in customary fashion, or helped Pakistan win matches against quality opposition.

But yes I know, he threw his wicket away time and time again and failed to take Pakistan home while chasing time and time again, because of Misbah's tuk tuk.

One slight problem with the shafiq stat, shafiq has the 4th highest number of innings played at no. 6 and as for AKmal, he is 14th on the list for ODI's.

As for your second point, why would I do that?

You said "he lacked application", but that stat proves he doesn't and has scored 50's, when has been give time to bat.

Nothing to do with finishing or chasing.

 

[Mamoon]

One slight problem with the shafiq stat, shafiq has the 4th highest number of innings played at no. 6 and as for AKmal, he is 14th on the list for ODI's.

That is because he got an opportunity at other numbers as well.

Umar 'don't call his career mediocre' Akmal numbers by batting position:

Number 3: 1 match, 28 runs. Came in the 36th over with Pakistan 220/1, perfect platform to play an aggressive innings but wasted the opportunity.

Number 4: 5 matches, average of 14

Number 5: 33 matches, average of 35

In these 33 matches, he didn't get a single opportunity to score a hundred?

His record at number 7 is mediocre as well, but I will be fair and will let it slide because it is too low a number for a dumb cricketer like Umar to make a meaningful contribution.

So, in 38 matches at 3,4 an 5 respectively, he didn't get the opportunity to score a single hundred and ended up with a combined average of 26. If this is not mediocre, what is?

Can you please list the excuses for all of these matches and why his record is pathetic? Oh wait, I have one. They just make 32% of his total matches.

As for your second point, why would I do that?

Because it exposes him as the dumb batsman that he is. Can't build an innings as his failures at number 4 and 5 suggest, but he can't finish off games at number 6 either and has repeatedly thrown it away in 50-50 situations.

You said "he lacked application", but that stat proves he doesn't and has scored 50's, when has been give time to bat.

Nothing to do with finishing or chasing.

Um no, it has everything to do with finishing and chasing. If you repeatedly fail to take your team across the line and keep throwing your wicket away, it shows that you are mentally weak. That is what Umar is, and he has bottled numerous close finishes.

You said 'but that stat proves he doesn't and has scored 50's, when has been give time to bat.'.

Are 38 matches at 3,4 and 5 not enough time to bat?

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=136113]Barragan[/MENTION]

Now matter how many excuses and justifications you pull out, the fact is that Umar so far has had a mediocre career, and he has not put his famed talent to any good use and won any big matches against big teams.

He still merits a place because he is a good hitter by our standards, but will have to work a lot on his attitude and fitness if his next few years are going to be better than the previous 4-5 years. However, we say this every year but he continues to disappoint.

 

[Barragan]

That is because he got an opportunity at other numbers as well.

Umar 'don't call his career mediocre' Akmal numbers by batting position:

Number 3: 1 match, 28 runs. Came in the 36th over with Pakistan 220/1, perfect platform to play an aggressive innings but wasted the opportunity.

Number 4: 5 matches, average of 14

Number 5: 33 matches, average of 35

In these 33 matches, he didn't get a single opportunity to score a hundred?

His record at number 7 is mediocre as well, but I will be fair and will let it slide because it is too low a number for a dumb cricketer like Umar to make a meaningful contribution.

So, in 38 matches at 3,4 an 5 respectively, he didn't get the opportunity to score a single hundred and ended up with a combined average of 26. If this is not mediocre, what is?

Can you please list the excuses for all of these matches and why his record is pathetic? Oh wait, I have one. They just make 32% of his total matches.



Because it exposes him as the dumb batsman that he is. Can't build an innings as his failures at number 4 and 5 suggest, but he can't finish off games at number 6 either and has repeatedly thrown it away in 50-50 situations.



Um no, it has everything to do with finishing and chasing. If you repeatedly fail to take your team across the line and keep throwing your wicket away, it shows that you are mentally weak. That is what Umar is, and he has bottled numerous close finishes.

You said 'but that stat proves he doesn't and has scored 50's, when has been give time to bat.'.

Are 38 matches at 3,4 and 5 not enough time to bat?

Those innings at 3 and 4 were more of pinch hitting type promotions.

Batted 5 times at 4 position, but once in 19 Jun 2010, 21 Feb 2012, 11 Mar 2012 and two consecutive chances in Aug 2014 (only time he got consecutive chances).

Btw, he is the 2nd highest run scorer at no. 5, with those that have played up to 31 innings.

Lastly, he doesn't need to be finisher and not everyone will be, but definitely proved you wrong about him not being able rebuild an innings.

 

[Barragan]

[MENTION=136113]Barragan[/MENTION]

Now matter how many excuses and justifications you pull out, the fact is that Umar so far has had a mediocre career, and he has not put his famed talent to any good use and won any big matches against big teams.

He still merits a place because he is a good hitter by our standards, but will have to work a lot on his attitude and fitness if his next few years are going to be better than the previous 4-5 years. However, we say this every year but he continues to disappoint.

Yeah, if we focus on 19% of his career.

 

[Barragan]

[MENTION=136113]Barragan[/MENTION]

Now matter how many excuses and justifications you pull out, the fact is that Umar so far has had a mediocre career, and he has not put his famed talent to any good use and won any big matches against big teams.

He still merits a place because he is a good hitter by our standards, but will have to work a lot on his attitude and fitness if his next few years are going to be better than the previous 4-5 years. However, we say this every year but he continues to disappoint.

Forgot to mention, how is being a top 10 batsman and having an average of 39 for up to 81% of his career an "excuse"?

Those are actually achievements and very good ones.

 

[leatherface58]

maybe he over did it...but basically he is implying that if Kohli play at #6, he would have worse stats.

bottom line: UA is bitter but he got a point.

Who knows? Kohli might have more not outs and his average might go up.

Even then, people will still complain.

 

[Mamoon]

Those innings at 3 and 4 were more of pinch hitting type promotions.

I already covered for the number 3 promotion. He was promoted as a pinch-hitter against India (a team against which he has always crapped his pants) with a tremendous platform on a flat pitch, but he failed as usual. A better innings there could have put the game beyond India's reach.

Please list his 5 innings at number 4 and why it was impossible for him to do better than an average of 14 and how it was not possible for him to get a big score.

In fact, I will save you some time:

_______________________________________

1) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/535794.html

Came to the crease with 17 overs to go, more than enough time to score some runs. Ended up scoring 21 runs. Let's see how he got dismissed:

Shakib has bowled superbly this Powerplay, Umar, keen to take advantage of the field pulled in, went for the slog-sweep, got a top-edge and Razzak, running back from square leg, juggled once but kept his calm to snap it on the second attempt

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/531634.html

2) Came to the crease with 27 overs to go, more than enough to time score runs, ended up scoring 12. Let's see how he got dismissed:

down the pitch, in the air, he hasn't caught this properly and holed out to long off. Didn't get to the pitch, still tried to lift the ball over the fence and paid the penalty, a simple chance for Dernbach coming in a couple of yards from the fence

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/455234.html

3) Came to the crease with 21 overs to go, more than enough time to score runs, let's see how he got dismissed:

Umar Akmal gone! One cute shot too many, premeditates the paddle sweep, is not to the pitch of it, the bounce takes the edge, into the helmet grille, and then lobs to Dhoni who rolls over to complete the catch

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/745159.html

4) Came to the crease with 34 overs to go, more than enough overs to score a hundred, gets out on 15. Let's see how he got dismissed:

throws his head down in disgust, then stares up at the heavens as he has to walk back. Lovely catch from Malinga at mid-on after Akmal tries to force the pace with an unwise loft. He did not have the room to free his arms, his shot looked quite awkward and there was no power on it. Malinga runs back and to his right, tumbles and secures a good catch

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/745161.html

5) Came to the crease with 31 overs to go, enough time to score a hundred, gets out on 1. Let's see how he got dismissed:

He might have missed the direct hit in the last over, but he has his man first ball, flights it, and gets the ball to turn, off the glove, onto the pad, pops up for Sangakkara, Pakistan are three down and in some bother, the pitch is taking turn, the Sri Lankan corwd has found its voice, and this game is changing rapidly - the only decent dismissal at number 4.
_______________________________________________

Batted 5 times at 4 position, but once in 19 Jun 2010, 21 Feb 2012, 11 Mar 2012 and two consecutive chances in Aug 2014 (only time he got consecutive chances).

So, not getting many consecutive matches at number 4 was the reason why he could not kick on in any of the matches and got out to pathetic shots 4 out of 5 times?

Btw, he is the 2nd highest run scorer at no. 5, with those that have played up to 31 innings.

Again, means nothing. Highest score with x number of runs at position y, when none of those runs helped the team win matches against quality opposition because he kept throwing his wicket away at crucial times. This is the type of reasoning used to justify Shafiq's inconsistencies in Tests, i.e. 'he has most number of runs and hundreds at 6, and the most number of runs when the temperature is below 40 and the wind is blowing at x mph'....

Lastly, he doesn't need to be finisher and not everyone will be, but definitely proved you wrong about him not being able rebuild an innings.

No one needs to be anything, but if you are not something in spite of being in a position to do something about it, then it means that you don't have the capability.

Umar does not have to be a finisher, but he has been put in a position where he could have finished off matches for Pakistan, but he has let the team down time and time again and apart from the match vs Australia in the 2011 World Cup, it is different to recall any instance where Umar has helped Pakistan chase down a total under pressure. On the other hand, I can list 4-5 instances from the top of my head where he has failed to take the team home, and I'm sure if I dig deep, I will find many examples.

This 'he doesn't need to be x and not everyone will be' line of reasoning can be used to justify the failure of any player. Like I said, no one needs to be anything.

You didn't prove anyone wrong. You simply hid behind the x number of runs at y position to justify his inability to help Pakistan win matches against quality opposition and how he has let the team down again and again and again due to his dumb batting and lack of match awareness.

Umar is a not a finisher, he is a not a chaser, he is a not accumulator, he is not a consolidator. What is he?

So far in his career, he has been nothing and has not been able to adopt any role. His only speciality has been to slog a few runs and then throw his wicket away, irrespective of the batting position and the context of the match. That is why I want him to open because his aggressive cameos will be better served at the top.

He simply does not have the skills for the middle-order, and he doesn't have the mental toughness to continue to bat at 6 because you need someone at that position who can finish off matches, which he cannot do.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah, if we focus on 19% of his career.

And about 4 years in career spanning 8 years.

 

[Barragan]

I already covered for the number 3 promotion. He was promoted as a pinch-hitter against India (a team against which he has always crapped his pants) with a tremendous platform on a flat pitch, but he failed as usual. A better innings there could have put the game beyond India's reach.

Please list his 5 innings at number 4 and why it was impossible for him to do better than an average of 14 and how it was not possible for him to get a big score.

In fact, I will save you some time:

_______________________________________

1) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/535794.html

Came to the crease with 17 overs to go, more than enough time to score some runs. Ended up scoring 21 runs. Let's see how he got dismissed:

Shakib has bowled superbly this Powerplay, Umar, keen to take advantage of the field pulled in, went for the slog-sweep, got a top-edge and Razzak, running back from square leg, juggled once but kept his calm to snap it on the second attempt

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/531634.html

2) Came to the crease with 27 overs to go, more than enough to time score runs, ended up scoring 12. Let's see how he got dismissed:

down the pitch, in the air, he hasn't caught this properly and holed out to long off. Didn't get to the pitch, still tried to lift the ball over the fence and paid the penalty, a simple chance for Dernbach coming in a couple of yards from the fence

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/455234.html

3) Came to the crease with 21 overs to go, more than enough time to score runs, let's see how he got dismissed:

Umar Akmal gone! One cute shot too many, premeditates the paddle sweep, is not to the pitch of it, the bounce takes the edge, into the helmet grille, and then lobs to Dhoni who rolls over to complete the catch

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/745159.html

4) Came to the crease with 34 overs to go, more than enough overs to score a hundred, gets out on 15. Let's see how he got dismissed:

throws his head down in disgust, then stares up at the heavens as he has to walk back. Lovely catch from Malinga at mid-on after Akmal tries to force the pace with an unwise loft. He did not have the room to free his arms, his shot looked quite awkward and there was no power on it. Malinga runs back and to his right, tumbles and secures a good catch

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/745161.html

5) Came to the crease with 31 overs to go, enough time to score a hundred, gets out on 1. Let's see how he got dismissed:

He might have missed the direct hit in the last over, but he has his man first ball, flights it, and gets the ball to turn, off the glove, onto the pad, pops up for Sangakkara, Pakistan are three down and in some bother, the pitch is taking turn, the Sri Lankan corwd has found its voice, and this game is changing rapidly - the only decent dismissal at number 4.
_______________________________________________


So, not getting many consecutive matches at number 4 was the reason why he could not kick on in any of the matches and got out to pathetic shots 4 out of 5 times?



Again, means nothing. Highest score with x number of runs at position y, when none of those runs helped the team win matches against quality opposition because he kept throwing his wicket away at crucial times. This is the type of reasoning used to justify Shafiq's inconsistencies in Tests, i.e. 'he has most number of runs and hundreds at 6, and the most number of runs when the temperature is below 40 and the wind is blowing at x mph'....


No one needs to be anything, but if you are not something in spite of being in a position to do something about it, then it means that you don't have the capability.

Umar does not have to be a finisher, but he has been put in a position where he could have finished off matches for Pakistan, but he has let the team down time and time again and apart from the match vs Australia in the 2011 World Cup, it is different to recall any instance where Umar has helped Pakistan chase down a total under pressure. On the other hand, I can list 4-5 instances from the top of my head where he has failed to take the team home, and I'm sure if I dig deep, I will find many examples.

This 'he doesn't need to be x and not everyone will be' line of reasoning can be used to justify the failure of any player. Like I said, no one needs to be anything.

You didn't prove anyone wrong. You simply hid behind the x number of runs at y position to justify his inability to help Pakistan win matches against quality opposition and how he has let the team down again and again and again due to his dumb batting and lack of match awareness.

Umar is a not a finisher, he is a not a chaser, he is a not accumulator, he is not a consolidator. What is he?

So far in his career, he has been nothing and has not been able to adopt any role. His only speciality has been to slog a few runs and then throw his wicket away, irrespective of the batting position and the context of the match. That is why I want him to open because his aggressive cameos will be better served at the top.

He simply does not have the skills for the middle-order, and he doesn't have the mental toughness to continue to bat at 6 because you need someone at that position who can finish off matches, which he cannot do.

After all this time, you come up with this?

Did you forget, the timings of those 5 innings at no. 4?

Yeah, he didn't do well in the only consecutive games (two) he got against SL, but that is hardly enough to judge a player based on his abilities of application.

Also, did you quickly forget his 16 or 17 50+ scores, when he has had 25+ overs to bat?

Lastly, I bet you weren't expecting him to be the 2nd highest runs scorer at no. 5, afer thinking he was a failure there?