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Congratulations Rohit Sharma for a THIRD ODI double hundred! (13/12/2017)

When on song Rohit can be absolute lethal. He is easily best openers going around. Those who are calling him FTB should’ve watched his innings against Aussies in MCG. He may not have great technique against moving ball, but he can certainly hang around and play a crucial knock.
Lastly, pitches are flat everywhere, or else how else will player like Warner, Hales, Dhawan score runs. They all are FTBs.
 
Nobody can dominate moving ball. Entire Australia was reduced to 24/9 in favorable conditions. Start using the word true wicket instead of flat wicket. Australian wickets are true wickets.
 
Imagine how highly Rohit would be rated if he was a Pakistani. Pretty sure the 'he is a FTB' brigade would have dubbed him the greatest ODI opener in history. The bias here can get embarrassing at times.

He is the best ODI opener from Asia after Tendulkar and Jayasuriya in my view. He has surpassed Ganguly and Anwar, and is very close to overtaking Jayasuriya as well. An ODI legend without a doubt, and right up there with de Kock and Warner as the best ODI opener of this generation.

Wow. You have a long history of being a world class hype machine. Bell (Better than Amla), Cook (ATG), Hafeez (Better than Anwar), Kamran (Better than Gilly), Kohli (Better than Sachin), Yousuf (Better than Younis), et cetera but Rohit being better than de Villiers has got to be the most laughable thing ever.

As for your earlier inquiry of opening being easier, compare ABDV's performances as an opener, at the beginning of his career, compared to what he's done in the middle. Or how Inzamam and Malik flourished lower down the order compared to when they were batting at #3. The easiest position to bat at in ODIs would have to be #4, where you are shielded from the new ball but do not have to start hitting from ball one and usually start your innings against the opposition's third and fourth choice bowlers.

Are you saying batting first up, with zero runs on the board and a fresh cherry in the hands of a Starc, Amir or Boult is easier than starting your innings with the score at around 100/2 with Mitchell Marsh or Woakes delivering their pies?

Batsmen are simply suited to different jobs, just like bowlers. You won't criticize Hassan Ali for not consistently opening the bowling so why would you do blame ABDV for not doing a job not suited to his game? He is at his best when he comes in with a platform after which he does things no batsman has ever done. Amla and de Kock are far better at handling the new ball and laying a platform.
 
Wow. You have a long history of being a world class hype machine. Bell (Better than Amla), Cook (ATG), Hafeez (Better than Anwar), Kamran (Better than Gilly), Kohli (Better than Sachin), Yousuf (Better than Younis), et cetera but Rohit being better than de Villiers has got to be the most laughable thing ever.

As for your earlier inquiry of opening being easier, compare ABDV's performances as an opener, at the beginning of his career, compared to what he's done in the middle. Or how Inzamam and Malik flourished lower down the order compared to when they were batting at #3. The easiest position to bat at in ODIs would have to be #4, where you are shielded from the new ball but do not have to start hitting from ball one and usually start your innings against the opposition's third and fourth choice bowlers.

Are you saying batting first up, with zero runs on the board and a fresh cherry in the hands of a Starc, Amir or Boult is easier than starting your innings with the score at around 100/2 with Mitchell Marsh or Woakes delivering their pies?

Batsmen are simply suited to different jobs, just like bowlers. You won't criticize Hassan Ali for not consistently opening the bowling so why would you do blame ABDV for not doing a job not suited to his game? He is at his best when he comes in with a platform after which he does things no batsman has ever done. Amla and de Kock are far better at handling the new ball and laying a platform.

Overseas tours are coming. Dont worry! He will get back to being compared to Guptill. If Rohit is an ATG odi batsmen, I wonder what has he won for his team?
 
Overseas tours are coming. Dont worry! He will get back to being compared to Guptill. If Rohit is an ATG odi batsmen, I wonder what has he won for his team?

Rohit and Guptil are fine players and certainly match-winners in certain situations but only a fool would compare them with batsmen who can bat all over the world, in all sorts of conditions.

The definition of an all-time great is someone who possesses the ability to do well in all eras, if not be a great in all eras. Seeing how easily Amir or even someone like Lakmal makes Rohit look like a bunny whenever the ball is moving an inch, can you force yourself to imagine him ever scoring a hundred against the likes of Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Donald, etc in the 90s? ABDV, I can certainly see doing well in any generation.
 
Rohit and Guptil are fine players and certainly<B> match-winners in certain situations</B> but only a fool would compare them with batsmen who can bat all over the world, in all sorts of conditions.

The definition of an all-time great is someone who possesses the ability to do well in all eras, if not be a great in all eras. Seeing how easily Amir or even someone like Lakmal makes Rohit look like a bunny whenever the ball is moving an inch, can you force yourself to imagine him ever scoring a hundred against the likes of Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Donald, etc in the 90s? ABDV, I can certainly see doing well in any generation.

Certain situation! That is most important part. Average attacks, flat pitch.

You will find most pressure situations when attack is better or pitch is not flat.
 
And I remember here Pakistani fans rated Babar Azam ahead of Rohit Sharma in 'top 5 batsmen from Asia in ODIs' :))

Babar Azam is not fit to shine shoes of an already Bonafide ATG - Rohit Sharma.
 
And I remember here Pakistani fans rated Babar Azam ahead of Rohit Sharma in 'top 5 batsmen from Asia in ODIs' :))

How many Asian batsmen are ranked higher than Babar? Do we have 5 batsmen higher than Babar?
 
If scoring only on tough pitches (ODIs) is greatness, then nobody can come even close to Rahul Dravid. This man just did the most hard work to even cement place in the side (had to do wicket-keeping). But he was often criticized for not capitalizing on so called flat pitches! He couldn't stay in the team just on lone quality of "batting in tough conditions". So you know even that (making the best out of easy conditions) is also a skill that is very much required! Now whoever does that is also criticized for opposite reason! Life is funny! ABD is criticized for not batting under pressure (not about "conditions"), Kohli is also criticized for mixed reasons, Dhoni the master of "pressure" is criticized for some other reason....
 
How many Asian batsmen are ranked higher than Babar? Do we have 5 batsmen higher than Babar?
Just in ODI then no, if you're including tests then at least 10 ahead of him & T20 you can find another 5 better than him, it may not always show in the ranking though.
 
He is the ODI batsman that de Villiers should have been, if only he had the guts to come up the order.

An ODI ATG opener already in my view, sensational player.

Oh come on AB is much more better and destructive than Rohit can ever be.

But I agree with your point that AB underachieved (lol given his average it sounds ridiculous) by not promoting himself to 3.

I feel he should've taken that responsibility.
 
Last 27 balls he faced in the innings:

6,6,6,6,0,6,6,1,6,1,1,1,4,4,6,1,1,4,1,1,6,1,6,2,2,6,1

and some here say he can never be as destructive as AB de villiers. Sometimes words are not enough to describe the ridiculousness of the hyperbole. :facepalm:
 
Funnily when the IPL started and Pakistan was also part of IPL, one player pak fans rated above all was Rohit sharma. Infact for long period Pak fans loved him more than Indians. But after years he finally matured and started delivering consistently. Now roles have reversed. Ofcourse not all pak fans deride him. Many recognize his special skills. India has produced unique batsmen that are better than their peers in one sapect or the other. Rohit has insane six hitting quality that not even Yvraj can match. Especially when he is still in the slog overs. He is not a well built guy, he is not a very tall lean machine either. He doesn't even looks wiry and strong like Pandya. Unbelievable how he hits those gigantic sixes. Pure timing i guess.
 
Funnily when the IPL started and Pakistan was also part of IPL, one player pak fans rated above all was Rohit sharma. Infact for long period Pak fans loved him more than Indians. But after years he finally matured and started delivering consistently. Now roles have reversed. Ofcourse not all pak fans deride him. Many recognize his special skills. India has produced unique batsmen that are better than their peers in one sapect or the other. Rohit has insane six hitting quality that not even Yvraj can match. Especially when he is still in the slog overs. He is not a well built guy, he is not a very tall lean machine either. He doesn't even looks wiry and strong like Pandya. Unbelievable how he hits those gigantic sixes. Pure timing i guess.

Opinions are in the order.

1) When he starts his career , normally honest opinions come up.

2) At the first sight of success , opinions change to " Yeah , it is only against X . Can he do that against Y?

3) When he performs against Y , the opinion change to " Yeah , can he do that abroad?"

4) When he performs abroad , " Yeah , it was a flat wicket "

5) When he performs on a non flat pitch , " Yeah , it is a flat pitch. Can he do what Player Z did on Pitch A which was as green as a forest ?"

Currently stage 5 is going on.
 
So you think rankings are serious?

I won't argue with some one with 5 or 10 rank as being ahead or below, but rankings should be taken seriously when difference is 20-30 ranks. Otherwise everyone comes up with opinion without any objectivity.

Anyway, point was if a batsman is ranked in the top 5-6 then claiming that he won't make into Indian side is absurd. There was one long thread for that.
 
Just in ODI then no, if you're including tests then at least 10 ahead of him & T20 you can find another 5 better than him, it may not always show in the ranking though.

He is no body in the test format, but many PPers ridicule him in ODI and that's unwarranted.
 
Wow. You have a long history of being a world class hype machine. Bell (Better than Amla), Cook (ATG), Hafeez (Better than Anwar), Kamran (Better than Gilly), Kohli (Better than Sachin), Yousuf (Better than Younis), et cetera but Rohit being better than de Villiers has got to be the most laughable thing ever.

As for your earlier inquiry of opening being easier, compare ABDV's performances as an opener, at the beginning of his career, compared to what he's done in the middle. Or how Inzamam and Malik flourished lower down the order compared to when they were batting at #3. The easiest position to bat at in ODIs would have to be #4, where you are shielded from the new ball but do not have to start hitting from ball one and usually start your innings against the opposition's third and fourth choice bowlers.

Are you saying batting first up, with zero runs on the board and a fresh cherry in the hands of a Starc, Amir or Boult is easier than starting your innings with the score at around 100/2 with Mitchell Marsh or Woakes delivering their pies?

Batsmen are simply suited to different jobs, just like bowlers. You won't criticize Hassan Ali for not consistently opening the bowling so why would you do blame ABDV for not doing a job not suited to his game? He is at his best when he comes in with a platform after which he does things no batsman has ever done. Amla and de Kock are far better at handling the new ball and laying a platform.

Again, painting a false narrative to drive home a point, but why I am not surprised? The purpose of comparing Hafeez and Anwar was not to show that Hafeez is better than Anwar; the purpose was to expose the hypocrisy of certain posters.

I didn't say Bell is better than your god, and I didn't say Kamran is better than Gilchrist - another blatant lie. I used Gilchrist as an example to illustrate Kamran's fall from grace. It was Ian Chappell in 2005 who compared Kamran to Gilchrist. He was fantastic with both bat and gloves at that time, and was even more highly rated than Dhoni.

The rest I agree with. Cook is an ATG, Kohli is better than Tendulkar and MoYo is better than Younis. Now to address the main point in hand here - de Villiers chickened out of opening when he got found out by Asif, but that was 10 years ago.

During his peak years, he should have batted at number 3 in ODIs instead of letting inferior players like du Plessis, Ingram etc. hog the spot. The 2015 World Cup SF is the most significant example of how de Villiers restricting himself to 20-25 overs only is not going to do any good for SA. In ODis, it is criminal for the best batsman in the team to not bat in the top 3.

Malik did not flourish lower down the order. He was excellent at number 3 in the early 2000's, averaged 50 at SR of 90. Similarly, Inzamam's restricted his potential in ODIs by running away from the new ball. Sure he was a very good middle-order batsman, but post Ijaz, Pakistan played many average number 3 batsmen when Inzamam was at his peak.

Most other teams have realized that your best batsman have to face maximum deliveries in ODIs. That is why successful ODI teams like India, Australia etc. have historically played their best batsman in the top 3, while Pakistan decided to play them at 4/5 in order to protect them from the new ball.

Good bowling conditions are rare in ODIs, and your best batsmen are actually more equipped of facing a challenging scenario than your mediocre so-called specialist batsmen. Specialist openers do not work in ODIs, and majority of the great ODI openers in history have played in the middle-order in Tests. It is not a coincidence.

In addition, the fact that there are many examples of failing middle-order batsmen transforming into quality openers - while the reverse has not been true in most cases - is not a coincidence either.

Middle-order is more challenging than opening because you have to adjust to so many different situations. You can walk in at 4-2 one day, and 200-2 the next. You need a complete game to excel in the middle-order, and batsmen who aren't good at strike rotation are exposed.

In opening, PP overs allows batsmen to pick up regular boundaries and make for dot balls. In addition, as they always start at 0-0, they have the freedom to often take their time unless they are chasing a huge total, which is not always.

Hasan Ali? What a fail analogy. He is not the captain - he has to do what the captain and coach tell him to do, but it is disappointing to see a fantastic bowler like him not getting a crack upfront because of a mediocre pacer like Junaid.

Your best fast bowler and your best batsman have to take the bull by the horns. Not play second-fiddle to inferior players. Your two best pacers have to open, and your best batsmen has to open or bat at number 3. Anything below that is counter-productive, and SA can testify to that.
 
Rohit and Guptil are fine players and certainly match-winners in certain situations but only a fool would compare them with batsmen who can bat all over the world, in all sorts of conditions.

The definition of an all-time great is someone who possesses the ability to do well in all eras, if not be a great in all eras. Seeing how easily Amir or even someone like Lakmal makes Rohit look like a bunny whenever the ball is moving an inch, can you force yourself to imagine him ever scoring a hundred against the likes of Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Donald, etc in the 90s? ABDV, I can certainly see doing well in any generation.

In LOIs pitches have been flat all over the world for a few years now. So players like Guptill, Rohit, Dhawan will contribute positively all around the world
 
Again, painting a false narrative to drive home a point, but why I am not surprised? The purpose of comparing Hafeez and Anwar was not to show that Hafeez is better than Anwar; the purpose was to expose the hypocrisy of certain posters.

I didn't say Bell is better than your god, and I didn't say Kamran is better than Gilchrist - another blatant lie. I used Gilchrist as an example to illustrate Kamran's fall from grace. It was Ian Chappell in 2005 who compared Kamran to Gilchrist. He was fantastic with both bat and gloves at that time, and was even more highly rated than Dhoni.

The rest I agree with. Cook is an ATG, Kohli is better than Tendulkar and MoYo is better than Younis. Now to address the main point in hand here - de Villiers chickened out of opening when he got found out by Asif, but that was 10 years ago.

During his peak years, he should have batted at number 3 in ODIs instead of letting inferior players like du Plessis, Ingram etc. hog the spot. The 2015 World Cup SF is the most significant example of how de Villiers restricting himself to 20-25 overs only is not going to do any good for SA. In ODis, it is criminal for the best batsman in the team to not bat in the top 3.

Malik did not flourish lower down the order. He was excellent at number 3 in the early 2000's, averaged 50 at SR of 90. Similarly, Inzamam's restricted his potential in ODIs by running away from the new ball. Sure he was a very good middle-order batsman, but post Ijaz, Pakistan played many average number 3 batsmen when Inzamam was at his peak.

Most other teams have realized that your best batsman have to face maximum deliveries in ODIs. That is why successful ODI teams like India, Australia etc. have historically played their best batsman in the top 3, while Pakistan decided to play them at 4/5 in order to protect them from the new ball.

Good bowling conditions are rare in ODIs, and your best batsmen are actually more equipped of facing a challenging scenario than your mediocre so-called specialist batsmen. Specialist openers do not work in ODIs, and majority of the great ODI openers in history have played in the middle-order in Tests. It is not a coincidence.

In addition, the fact that there are many examples of failing middle-order batsmen transforming into quality openers - while the reverse has not been true in most cases - is not a coincidence either.

Middle-order is more challenging than opening because you have to adjust to so many different situations. You can walk in at 4-2 one day, and 200-2 the next. You need a complete game to excel in the middle-order, and batsmen who aren't good at strike rotation are exposed.

In opening, PP overs allows batsmen to pick up regular boundaries and make for dot balls. In addition, as they always start at 0-0, they have the freedom to often take their time unless they are chasing a huge total, which is not always.

Hasan Ali? What a fail analogy. He is not the captain - he has to do what the captain and coach tell him to do, but it is disappointing to see a fantastic bowler like him not getting a crack upfront because of a mediocre pacer like Junaid.

Your best fast bowler and your best batsman have to take the bull by the horns. Not play second-fiddle to inferior players. Your two best pacers have to open, and your best batsmen has to open or bat at number 3. Anything below that is counter-productive, and SA can testify to that.

Excellent post. Yes beast in their batting ability woke up for many batsmen after they became openers in one dayers. Ganguly not a natural opener, Tendulkar not a natural opener, Jayasuriya was infact a lower order batsman, Dilshan, Gilchrist, Rohit Sharma, McCullum
 
True. ABDV would be a fantastic player in any era, just like your posts would be terrible in any era.

Must have taken all three of your braincells to come up with that retort. Well done. You can now progress to making some sort of contribution to the ongoing discussion.

Just in ODI then no, if you're including tests then at least 10 ahead of him & T20 you can find another 5 better than him, it may not always show in the ranking though.

Tests, I agree with. However, he's world class in T20s, just like in ODIs.

Again, painting a false narrative to drive home a point, but why I am not surprised? The purpose of comparing Hafeez and Anwar was not to show that Hafeez is better than Anwar; the purpose was to expose the hypocrisy of certain posters.

I didn't say Bell is better than your god, and I didn't say Kamran is better than Gilchrist - another blatant lie. I used Gilchrist as an example to illustrate Kamran's fall from grace. It was Ian Chappell in 2005 who compared Kamran to Gilchrist. He was fantastic with both bat and gloves at that time, and was even more highly rated than Dhoni.

The rest I agree with. Cook is an ATG, Kohli is better than Tendulkar and MoYo is better than Younis. Now to address the main point in hand here - de Villiers chickened out of opening when he got found out by Asif, but that was 10 years ago.

During his peak years, he should have batted at number 3 in ODIs instead of letting inferior players like du Plessis, Ingram etc. hog the spot. The 2015 World Cup SF is the most significant example of how de Villiers restricting himself to 20-25 overs only is not going to do any good for SA. In ODis, it is criminal for the best batsman in the team to not bat in the top 3.

Malik did not flourish lower down the order. He was excellent at number 3 in the early 2000's, averaged 50 at SR of 90. Similarly, Inzamam's restricted his potential in ODIs by running away from the new ball. Sure he was a very good middle-order batsman, but post Ijaz, Pakistan played many average number 3 batsmen when Inzamam was at his peak.

Most other teams have realized that your best batsman have to face maximum deliveries in ODIs. That is why successful ODI teams like India, Australia etc. have historically played their best batsman in the top 3, while Pakistan decided to play them at 4/5 in order to protect them from the new ball.

Good bowling conditions are rare in ODIs, and your best batsmen are actually more equipped of facing a challenging scenario than your mediocre so-called specialist batsmen. Specialist openers do not work in ODIs, and majority of the great ODI openers in history have played in the middle-order in Tests. It is not a coincidence.

In addition, the fact that there are many examples of failing middle-order batsmen transforming into quality openers - while the reverse has not been true in most cases - is not a coincidence either.

Middle-order is more challenging than opening because you have to adjust to so many different situations. You can walk in at 4-2 one day, and 200-2 the next. You need a complete game to excel in the middle-order, and batsmen who aren't good at strike rotation are exposed.

In opening, PP overs allows batsmen to pick up regular boundaries and make for dot balls. In addition, as they always start at 0-0, they have the freedom to often take their time unless they are chasing a huge total, which is not always.

Hasan Ali? What a fail analogy. He is not the captain - he has to do what the captain and coach tell him to do, but it is disappointing to see a fantastic bowler like him not getting a crack upfront because of a mediocre pacer like Junaid.

Your best fast bowler and your best batsman have to take the bull by the horns. Not play second-fiddle to inferior players. Your two best pacers have to open, and your best batsmen has to open or bat at number 3. Anything below that is counter-productive, and SA can testify to that.

Do not blame me for your failing memory. You did say all those ridiculous things but just like you don't remember the "Irfan: Break Amla's head" thread, you don't remember those stinkers of yours either.

Rohit Sharma is nothing but a great FTB. It does not matter that many pitches these days are roads, it won't make an FTB like him an ATG, just like Ashwin and Jadeja will not go down as ATGs simply because they've done incredible things on pitches tailor-made for them.

You did not answer my earlier question: Is it easier to start your innings with zero runs om the board on a fresh pitch with two new balls commanded by the likes of Starc, Amir and Boult or is it easier to start your innings with runs on the board (quite a lot of runs, because apparently, all pitches are flat these days) against Imad Wasim, Faheem Ashraf and Marcus (?) Stoinis? If pitches are flat, then the 4-2 situation will happen very rarely, making it easier to bat in the middle-order rather than at the top because even the tiniest of advantage to the bowlers has dried up by then. If pitches are not always flat, then it is certainly more difficult to front up from ball one rather than after the inital burst from the pacers? Which one is it?

The only advantage openers have over middle-order batsmen is that they have many more opportunities to make daddy hundreds. However, middle-order bats have plenty more advantages such as having more time to transition from fielding to batting mode, more opportunities to artificially inflate their averages, the aforementioned dodging of the opposition's best bowlers and the freedom to attack from ball one.

Have you ever played any cricket at any level? All players are NOT the SAME. You pick any two players in the world and they'll have different preferences, strengths, weaknesses and techniques. Thus, not every fast bowler is suited to being the opening bowler and not every batsman is suited for being a top-order batsman. Hassan Ali is much more effective as a first-change bowler, just like ABDV is much more effective at being a middle-order batsmen.

Akhtar and Lee only started opening the bowling when their teams literally had no other options. Morkel and Rabada have better numbers as first change, than when opening. Johnson used to bowl first change during the 2013 Ashes, Dhoni has batted at #6 or #5, nearly his entire career, Inzamam was far better in the middle, same with Clarke and Sobers in tests. You thinking that being the best batsmen or bowler means that you are also the best at opening the batting or bowling innings, respectively, really makes me question if I'm wasting my time debating with someone who does not understand the basics of the game.

South Africa have had a buch of world class coaches and captains, and if none of them had the genius idea of making ABDV bat at #3 means that either you're deluded or your cricketing intelligence is greater than theirs. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on the former.
 
Excellent post. Yes beast in their batting ability woke up for many batsmen after they became openers in one dayers. Ganguly not a natural opener, Tendulkar not a natural opener, Jayasuriya was infact a lower order batsman, Dilshan, Gilchrist, Rohit Sharma, McCullum

Inzamam and ABDV went the other way and flourished. Not all of their success can be attributed to a change in positions, instead the biggest factors were maturity, confidence and technical improvements.
 
Tests, I agree with. However, he's world class in T20s, just like in ODIs.



Do not blame me for your failing memory. You did say all those ridiculous things but just like you don't remember the "Irfan: Break Amla's head" thread, you don't remember those stinkers of yours either.

Rohit Sharma is nothing but a great FTB. It does not matter that many pitches these days are roads, it won't make an FTB like him an ATG, just like Ashwin and Jadeja will not go down as ATGs simply because they've done incredible things on pitches tailor-made for them.

You did not answer my earlier question: Is it easier to start your innings with zero runs om the board on a fresh pitch with two new balls commanded by the likes of Starc, Amir and Boult or is it easier to start your innings with runs on the board (quite a lot of runs, because apparently, all pitches are flat these days) against Imad Wasim, Faheem Ashraf and Marcus (?) Stoinis? If pitches are flat, then the 4-2 situation will happen very rarely, making it easier to bat in the middle-order rather than at the top because even the tiniest of advantage to the bowlers has dried up by then. If pitches are not always flat, then it is certainly more difficult to front up from ball one rather than after the inital burst from the pacers? Which one is it?

The only advantage openers have over middle-order batsmen is that they have many more opportunities to make daddy hundreds. However, middle-order bats have plenty more advantages such as having more time to transition from fielding to batting mode, more opportunities to artificially inflate their averages, the aforementioned dodging of the opposition's best bowlers and the freedom to attack from ball one.

Have you ever played any cricket at any level? All players are NOT the SAME. You pick any two players in the world and they'll have different preferences, strengths, weaknesses and techniques. Thus, not every fast bowler is suited to being the opening bowler and not every batsman is suited for being a top-order batsman. Hassan Ali is much more effective as a first-change bowler, just like ABDV is much more effective at being a middle-order batsmen.

Akhtar and Lee only started opening the bowling when their teams literally had no other options. Morkel and Rabada have better numbers as first change, than when opening. Johnson used to bowl first change during the 2013 Ashes, Dhoni has batted at #6 or #5, nearly his entire career, Inzamam was far better in the middle, same with Clarke and Sobers in tests. You thinking that being the best batsmen or bowler means that you are also the best at opening the batting or bowling innings, respectively, really makes me question if I'm wasting my time debating with someone who does not understand the basics of the game.

South Africa have had a buch of world class coaches and captains, and if none of them had the genius idea of making ABDV bat at #3 means that either you're deluded or your cricketing intelligence is greater than theirs. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on the former.



Ashwin averaged 25 on those flat Australian pitches in the 2015 WC and he averaged 22 in the 2013 CT in England.

I thought he only performs on pitches that are tailored made for him?
 
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The thread is about Rohit. Posters should not derail the thread by discussing about holes in AB de Villiers legacy in this thread.

As of today, Rohit will have to surpass Kohli first then only can he surpass de Villiers in odis. When Kohli surpasses de Villiers in odis, I will be first acknowledging that.
 
Inzamam and ABDV went the other way and flourished. Not all of their success can be attributed to a change in positions, instead the biggest factors were maturity, confidence and technical improvements.

Dhawan played only 92 matches has already made 11 centuries with average of 43. Inzamam after 378 matches got 10 centuries with average of 39. There is no denying the fact coming up the order makes the best batsman more useful to the team. Openers set the tone. Atleast no.3. India floundered in 2007 world cup because Greg CHappell thought it was a great idea to send Sachin in the middle order to create an illusionary balance. ABDV could have been lot more impactful had he chosen to come early in the batting order.
 
AB is a great player but choke under pressure, overall Rohit is superior
 
The thread is about Rohit. Posters should not derail the thread by discussing about holes in AB de Villiers legacy in this thread.

As of today, Rohit will have to surpass Kohli first then only can he surpass de Villiers in odis. When Kohli surpasses de Villiers in odis, I will be first acknowledging that.
ABDV is not the benchmark in ODI, except maybe a brief period around 2014/15 :13:

In the last 30 odd years the top ODI batters have been Viv, Dean Jones, Sanath, SRT, Ponting, Dhoni et al. ABDV has had a questionable reign at the top, for reasons Mamoon mentioned, atm though Kohli is easily the best LO batter around, he's in perpetual god mode in T20 & almost always in form in ODI.
 
ABDV is not the benchmark in ODI, except maybe a brief period around 2014/15 :13:

In the last 30 odd years the top ODI batters have been Viv, Dean Jones, Sanath, SRT, Ponting, Dhoni et al. ABDV has had a questionable reign at the top, for reasons Mamoon mentioned, atm though Kohli is easily the best LO batter around, he's in perpetual god mode in T20 & almost always in form in ODI.

ABDV had an unbelievable peak for 7 years when he was averaging 65@SR 110+. These are unbelievable stats. Sanath and Jones are great odi bats but inferior to AB. AB reinvented modern day batting by 360° batting. His 360 hitting is very similar to Waqar toe crushing Yorkers.He also has peer reputation. Dhoni is a bigger cricketer than AB but not bigger batsmen.

He also had a great WC at the peak of his powers in 2015 when he was among the top three run scorer which is a massive achievement for someone who bats at 4-5.

Mamoon points are absurd. For Someone who has won his team so many matches across the world at 4-5 for 6-7 years and is regarded as one of the hardest batsmen to bowl in latter overs, there is no logic in having him change the batting position.

He is not at level of VIV and Tendulkar whixh is true but as of now ahead of Kohli in odis.

If you add t20s, then Kohli is ahead but personally I dont value t20s much.

In Gavaskar era, Odis weren't valued much. He was a poor odi bat but is still regarded as a top tier ATG and at same level to say, Chappell who was a very good ODI bat apart from being a top tier ATG itself.

In tests, I think again Kohli has a good shot to be ATG there also which means he will easily end up as a top tier ATG all formats combined and obviously better than de Villiers and I am backing him for that regards. But I was talking exclusively for odis where AB> Kohli as of now(today).

Post 2000s debutant assuming when they all will retire:

Kohli
Smith
Sanga
AB
Amla
 
Sorry wasn’t more specific and was vague but in Aug 2016 England scored 444/3 and the attack was Wahab,Amir and Hassan Ali in Jan of this year Aus scores 369 and 353 with pretty much all the so called star bowlers in the bowling line up.

I don’t want to indulge in this further because it usually leads nowhere but See the point of my post was the poster saying Pak never get such pitches or opportunities :))
The word 'so-called' is highly unfair for a bowling attack that won their country a major ICC tournament, dont you think?

Outperforming the best bowling attack of the decade in the final should carry some weight.
 
The word 'so-called' is highly unfair for a bowling attack that won their country a major ICC tournament, dont you think?

Outperforming the best bowling attack of the decade in the final should carry some weight.

To be fair they had like 340 runs to defend which is way too much in any final against any opposition.
 
To be fair they had like 340 runs to defend which is way too much in any final against any opposition.

SA had 300 to defend in 43 overs in WC semis but they couldn't do that against a side which didnt had the luxury of greatest chasers and greatest finishers ever.

Credit to that team for doing it against a side which has greatest chaser and greatest finisher ever.
 
SA had 300 to defend in 43 overs in WC semis but they couldn't do that against a side which didnt had the luxury of greatest chasers and greatest finishers ever.

Credit to that team for doing it against a side which has greatest chaser and greatest finisher ever.
With a wet ball & a wet outfield, not to mention a pint sized stadium. Don't be modest now!
 
Okay. It wasn't a big achievement. Anyone would have chased down that much.
A good team at home would chase that, especially with the extra fielder inside during those days & NZ are beasts at home, just ask Aus who've lost multiple LO series over there.
 
How many Asian batsmen are ranked higher than Babar? Do we have 5 batsmen higher than Babar?

Top 5 batsmen in Asia ODI's thread here on Pakpassion!

Babar's achievements in his overall career, comparing him to an ATG like Shama is an insult to Sharma
 
Top 5 batsmen in Asia ODI's thread here on Pakpassion!

Babar's achievements in his overall career, comparing him to an ATG like Shama is an insult to Sharma

Sharma isn't an ATG even if rated higher than Babar.
 
Sharma isn't an ATG even if rated higher than Babar.

He has his name in the history, what we associate with Saeed Anwar, he crossed that 3 times. Thats enough to be ATG considering nobody in the entire cricketing world other than Sehwag and Tendulkar has been able to do it once only, let alone 3 times
 
A good team at home would chase that, especially with the extra fielder inside during those days & NZ are beasts at home, just ask Aus who've lost multiple LO series over there.

Just like India did it in 2011 WC final.
 
He has his name in the history, what we associate with Saeed Anwar, he crossed that 3 times. Thats enough to be ATG considering nobody in the entire cricketing world other than Sehwag and Tendulkar has been able to do it once only, let alone 3 times

Entire history talk is meaningless because ODI game has changed a lot.

Double ton in 70s - 0
Double ton in 80s - 0
Double ton in 90s - 0
Double ton in 00s - 0
Double ton in 10s - 7

You forgot, Gayle and Guptil did it as well. You missed their names. I am pretty sure that we will see many more double tons in future. Not to discount double tons, but crossing Anwar is not a benchmark for an ATG.
 
Rohit Sharma an ATG? This is comical. Did not know you can bash SL and WI on home grounds makes you an ATG batsman.

He's a very good batsman in shorter formats but he has a long way to go to be called an ATG.
 
Rohit Sharma an ATG? This is comical. Did not know you can bash SL and WI on home grounds makes you an ATG batsman.

He's a very good batsman in shorter formats but he has a long way to go to be called an ATG.

How many batsmen going around have managed to score double century against SL and Windies. Give credit where its due. Just because it was scored at home agains weaker opponents doesnt make this feat any less significant.

As for ATG, its too prematured to suggest that when he is only midway through his career. If he continues this form for another 5-6 years, that is if he continues to score with an avg of 50+ as an opening batsman then perhaps he has a shot to go down as ATG or to the very least an Indian great.
 
How many batsmen going around have managed to score double century against SL and Windies. Give credit where its due. Just because it was scored at home agains weaker opponents doesnt make this feat any less significant.

As for ATG, its too prematured to suggest that when he is only midway through his career. If he continues this form for another 5-6 years, that is if he continues to score with an avg of 50+ as an opening batsman then perhaps he has a shot to go down as ATG or to the very least an Indian great.

I actually rate Sharma. Your points are valid. Scoring double centuries against any opposition require a lot of ability. However, he has to keep performing like this for a few more years and perform better in high pressure games to become an ATG.

All ATG batsmen performed at higher level for at least 7-8 years. Sharma has to do the same.
 
Entire history talk is meaningless because ODI game has changed a lot.

Double ton in 70s - 0
Double ton in 80s - 0
Double ton in 90s - 0
Double ton in 00s - 0
Double ton in 10s - 7

You forgot, Gayle and Guptil did it as well. You missed their names. I am pretty sure that we will see many more double tons in future. Not to discount double tons, but crossing Anwar is not a benchmark for an ATG.

Facts are facts and the only objective to look at something is through numbers, everyone admits batsmen in this era are better than the batsmen of previous era, Tendulkar is generally considered better than Viv, and Kohli might be better than both of these two. Bradman is considered arguably the greatest because of his numbers regardless of the era.

On the contrary fans always big up fast bowlers from the previous era, Imran is superior to Steyn, nobody will say Steyn is superior despite bowling in a batting friendly era.
 
Entire history talk is meaningless because ODI game has changed a lot.

Double ton in 70s - 0
Double ton in 80s - 0
Double ton in 90s - 0
Double ton in 00s - 0
Double ton in 10s - 7

You forgot, Gayle and Guptil did it as well. You missed their names. I am pretty sure that we will see many more double tons in future. Not to discount double tons, but crossing Anwar is not a benchmark for an ATG.

Facts are facts and the only objective to look at something is through numbers, everyone admits batsmen in this era are better than the batsmen of previous era, Tendulkar is generally considered better than Viv, .......

SRT scored double in his last few years. Do you really think that SRT was better batsman in 2010s than in 90s? Double tons are not due to batsmen being better. ODI game has changed a lot.
 
The first match of his captaincy stint was a disaster. Series on line , best batsman not available , send into bat on a juicy pitch and scored a double century under these pressure situation to give his team a win. If this is not appreciated , then whole world is pretty demanding.
 
If he scores in south africa (& i am sure he will in odis) people will still say pitches were flat or bowlers didn't bowl him well.
 
If he scores in south africa (& i am sure he will in odis) people will still say pitches were flat or bowlers didn't bowl him well.

Last time he played in SA, he was literally fishing outside off stump. Watch some replays if possible.
 
Last time he played in SA, he was literally fishing outside off stump. Watch some replays if possible.

Pitches have been quite flat now than last time in south africa and even he improved little than last time.
 
Rohit Sharma an ATG? This is comical. Did not know you can bash SL and WI on home grounds makes you an ATG batsman.

He's a very good batsman in shorter formats but he has a long way to go to be called an ATG.

Sri Lanka is no push over. They did beat India in champions trophy if I'm not mistaken with a bunch of rookie players...
 
He is a massive home track bully/ FTB.

Indians are lucky to face Boland, Paris and co to boost their batters stats in Australia even though they weren't able to beat that third string side. Pretty absurd!
 
Ashwin averaged 25 on those flat Australian pitches in the 2015 WC and he averaged 22 in the 2013 CT in England.

I thought he only performs on pitches that are tailored made for him?

In tests, yes. A massive failure on flat pitches. ODIs are a different format. Tahir averages that much across his entire career, not just one or two tournaments.
 
Pitches have been quite flat now than last time in south africa and even he improved little than last time.

So just because batting has become easier, Rohit Sharma automatically becomes an ATG? Just because the game is becoming one-sided, does not meant that fans should be blind to the actual realities.

Rohit would struggle big time against the pace bowlers if he was playing in any other era. That itself makes excludes him from ever being mentioned in the same breath as "All-Time" greats. You take any one else, Viv, Sachin, Ponting or even the true modern day ATG, ABD, and it's clear that these guys would be great in every era.
 
Would still pick Dhawan over Rohit.

Not a fan of Rohit and Tamim kind of players who put their milestones first rather than team in big matches.

Cant risk losing a tournament.

Gautam Gambhir was the real clutch player. I dont like him due to his hate for Pakistan and disgusting comments but I would taken him as opener over the likes of Sharma any day.
 
So just because batting has become easier, Rohit Sharma automatically becomes an ATG? Just because the game is becoming one-sided, does not meant that fans should be blind to the actual realities.

Rohit would struggle big time against the pace bowlers if he was playing in any other era. That itself makes excludes him from ever being mentioned in the same breath as "All-Time" greats. You take any one else, Viv, Sachin, Ponting or even the true modern day ATG, ABD, and it's clear that these guys would be great in every era.

Who cares about atg? i just love watching him bat and that's all i care about. Agree pitches are flat these days but that's also tells that these batsman don't play alot on green track so how can they prepare for it. They get once in while green track with alot help. If they can work hard on these pitches they can surely make some runs. It not impossible thing to score runs on green decks.
 
Okay, Rohit has 4 odi centuries in australia.

You do know Rohit has

138 vs Australia at the MCG
171* vs Australia at Perth
124 vs Australia at Gabba

right?

And your point is?

I just said I don't rate double hundreds or any other monstrous scores on flat tracks in the subcontinent.

What does that have to do with Rohit having hundreds overseas?
 
Rohit Sharma is a Maverick. When he gets going he destroys the opponents and runs away with the game. When he hits a lean patch, he looks like a Tailender.

Overall, still a brilliant ODI batsman. You need someone like him at the top. He and Dhawan are the best openers in the world. Only Finch and Warner can be as good as these two imo.

Rohit will come good again. We have seen these type of lean patches from him before. He will break this rut with a sublime century soon.
 
He's one of those batsmen who have really benefited from flat pitches and low quality bowling attacks.
 
Rohit Sharma my be the greatest FTB in ODIs. I think he has surpassed Anwar in that regard as well. But a true ATG ODI bat he is not.
 
I do not know why I get such a kick from him failing and everyone trashing him. I do not wish for him to fail but it is hilarious when he does.
 
Rohit Sharma my be the greatest FTB in ODIs. I think he has surpassed Anwar in that regard as well. But a true ATG ODI bat he is not.

Nowhere near ATG.There were many people who were calling him ATG or Near ATG status after his 3rd 200
 
Sharma is a true Indian patriot he has swore only to score runs in India & nowhere else in the world.
 
He has his limitations. But if the pitch is a highway, he is arguably the most destructive batsmen in the world. Still a very good odi player. Smashinh 3 200s in a 50 over match isnt a cakewalk
 
He has his limitations. But if the pitch is a highway, he is arguably the most destructive batsmen in the world. Still a very good odi player. Smashinh 3 200s in a 50 over match isnt a cakewalk
Considering atleast 50% of ODI pitches are absolute highways and a good 30-35% very flat it still makes his selection a no brainer
 
Considering atleast 50% of ODI pitches are absolute highways and a good 30-35% very flat it still makes his selection a no brainer

Selection? Why? He is their second/third best batsmen.
 
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