Corporal punishment for children at schools

[Yossarian]

What do PPers think about corporal punishment? Has anyone been subjected to it? Or perhaps subjected it to others on behalf of a teacher or other authority figure?

It's been banned in english state schools for decades now, but does it still carry on by some religious teachers teaching in Majid's and Islamic centres?

(When my brother was young, he was caned (hard) on his hand a couple of times. When he told my father, my father went to the Masjid and told the perpetrator that if he ever did it again, he'll be waking up in hospital !)

So c'mon, lets have your experiences, of being caned or caning others.

 

[Chasing Cars]

Being a child of the 90s, I was obviously not subjected to it. However, when we were in year two (which was when I was 6/7 years old) went on a school trip to find out about elizabethan education. We took part in a "mock lesson" where one kid was "caned" and it scared all of us for life. To be honest, I think it should be reintroduced. Some kids now bloody well deserved to be walloped for the way they answer back to teachers. Tut tut tut.

 

[Yossarian]

Being a child of the 90s, I was obviously not subjected to it. However, when we were in year two (which was when I was 6/7 years old) went on a school trip to find out about elizabethan education. We took part in a "mock lesson" where one kid was "caned" and it scared all of us for life. To be honest, I think it should be reintroduced. Some kids now bloody well deserved to be walloped for the way they answer back to teachers. Tut tut tut.

The problem is that some people might enjoy it!

And not just the ones who are dishing it out!

 

[RexRex]

not at school , but at home , a regular dose would do the kid good...hope no one looks to british parenting for inspiration.

 

[cricket_fever]

as long as it doesnt injure da child or leave a mark..yeah..not at skul only at home...some kids come ryt after a spanking on the bum!

 

[12thMan]

as long as it doesnt injure da child or leave a mark..yeah..not at skul only at home...some kids come ryt after a spanking on the bum!

Hitting at skul can cause brain damage or serious injury

 

[RexRex]

i concur , a quick blow to the ribcage will suffice

 

[Yossarian]

not at school , but at home , a regular dose would do the kid good...hope no one looks to british parenting for inspiration.

as long as it doesnt injure da child or leave a mark..yeah..not at skul only at home...some kids come ryt after a spanking on the bum!

I cannot see how it's ok for a parent to hit a child to the extent implied in both those posts above.

Apart from anything else, the child is receiving the message that violence is ok, especially against those who are not in a position to strike back. They will grow up with that message ingrained into their personalities as they become adults.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not against children being punished, perhaps by less severe physical punishments in combination with other privelages taken away.
Either way, anyone other that a parent carrying out the punishment has to be a definitely no no.

 

[Yossarian]

not at school , but at home , a regular dose would do the kid good...hope no one looks to british parenting for inspiration.[/QUOTE]

Why not? What's wrong with British parenting (not per se, but in comparison to others)?

 

[Mohsin]

You still have smacking in Mosques/private tutors teaching the Qur'an.

 

[mindless slogging]

not at school , but at home , a regular dose would do the kid good...hope no one looks to british parenting for inspiration.[/QUOTE]

Why not? What's wrong with British parenting (not per se, but in comparison to others)?

Hope that's not a serious question. There was an overdose of media articles after british families (and parenting) came out as one of the worst in Europe.

I actually think that parents should be able to do it to their kids to send a message, but to an extent. Has anyone seen that South Park episode where Cartman gets put in his place by the dog whisperer? Sometimes you do need to get physical, but it shouldn't be done with pleasure (as parents naturally won't) and also not to the extent that child bears ill-feelings for life.

Actually didn't Al-Ghazzali say you can't hit a child because of the everlasting effect this will have his memory- that he will remember it for life and see it as unjust?

 

[Saqlain_doosra]

You still have smacking in Mosques/private tutors teaching the Qur'an.

Not in UK any more. It was in 90's but these kids are too smart. Mosque teacher slapped my younger brother couple of years ago and my brother said to him"i'm going to report you to police". Since then that teacher hasn't hit any one. My brother was only 8 years old at the time.

 

[abc_to_xyz]

I think it should be reintroduced. Some kids now bloody well deserved to be walloped for the way they answer back to teachers. Tut tut tut.

I agree.. 100%.

Btw, Nice Siggy...

 

[TAK]

What do PPers think about corporal punishment? Has anyone been subjected to it? Or perhaps subjected it to others on behalf of a teacher or other authority figure?

It's been banned in english state schools for decades now, but does it still carry on by some religious teachers teaching in Majid's and Islamic centres?

(When my brother was young, he was caned (hard) on his hand a couple of times. When he told my father, my father went to the Masjid and told the perpetrator that if he ever did it again, he'll be waking up in hospital !)

So c'mon, lets have your experiences, of being caned or caning others.

i was caned on the hand quite a few times in school

back aginst the wall hand outstretched and one downward swing - normally from the head or deputy head

slippered across the backside once or twice too - that hurt way more than the cane!

no really punishment at mosque - i was always a quick learner - and to be honest learning to read arabic parrot fashion is not exactly hard

occasional ear pull and "kukkar" punishemnts

i've just had a quick go and i can more or less still get into "kukkar" position i just can't manage to grab my ears though )

but i did see some kids take some REAL licks at mosque

 

[Chasing Cars]

I agree.. 100%.

Btw, Nice Siggy...

Why thank you Yours isn't so bad either

 

[srh]

Punjab Law Minister: 'Majority of children admitted to Madaris abused'

Friday, November 20, 2009
By our correspondent

LAHORE: Punjab Minister for Law and Parliamentary Affairs Rana Sanaullah has said sexual abuse of children is a non-bailable offence and entails life imprisonment, even capital punishment.

He was talking to reporters at a seminar on Child Protection Systems and Implementation Mechanisms. The seminar was organised by an NGO, Sahil, in collaboration with Action Aid Punjab on Thursday.

He said children and people should be educated about the menace of child sexual abuse, which was distorting the image of Pakistan. He said majority of children admitted to Madrassas to get religious education were abused. He said it was time to implement the laws and the government was trying to improve the situation. He said beggars should be given proper shelters and employment opportunities, so that they could quit beggary and enter the mainstream. Sana said law enforcers had countered militants’ conspiracies by pre-empting two strikes at Lilla and Babu Sabu Interchanges. Forces were ready to repel more attacks, he added.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=209552

^^^This is very serious allegation if he is talking about sexual abuse (from what I can understand).

 

[cricket_fever]

well...it does happen in some madressahs and some ustaads arent aware of the limits of corporal punishment in islam. they dont realise is that they wont create love for deen in childrens hearts like this. Many tyms in villages the ustaads aint even molanas, they are mostly those that behave wild.

 

[mindless slogging]

I seriously doubt it is sexual abuse. I think he is trying to address the routine 'danda' abuse, dished out whenever it is necessary/unnecessary.

P.S. There don't seem to be quotes from him about sexual abuse. And the use of the word majority seems highly contentious.

 

[srh]

^^^But if you read the sentence just before the bolded sentence, he is tallking about sexual abuse. So the bolded sentence could be in the context of the sexual abuse.

 

[mindless slogging]

Yeah but it isn't a quote is it? If it is and 'majority' of children are abused (sexually) what's he doing sitting on his ass? It would be a much bigger case, so either the newspaper picked it up wrong, he exaggerrated or maybe he was just talking about physical attacks.

 

[Golden arm]

Not most but many of these unfortunate children are abused either sexually, physically, morally by these sick mullahs, and when these children develop into adults, they become psychopath and repeat these things to young kids.
This is the best time if we want to get rid of these daily suicide attacks, we have to work on our madrassah, which are the breeding grounds for these terrorists and socially useless members of the society.

 

[Disco_Lemonade]

i've said this before and i will say this again, 'students' in Pakistan are treated like animals. This abuse is not restricted to medressah's.

 

[Disco_Lemonade]

as for 'sexual abuse' in medressah's, it is not restricted to Pakistan either. heard some seriously bad stories regarding sexual abuse in saudia arabia.

 

[adarsh_bang]

as for 'sexual abuse' in medressah's, it is not restricted to Pakistan either. heard some seriously bad stories regarding sexual abuse in saudia arabia.

 

[adarsh_bang]

astaghfirullah... pathetic.. ''if true'' ... pity those poor kids

but ALLAH will bring justice.. surely... if not in this world .. then in the next.. there is no escaping

 

[Golden arm]

astaghfirullah... pathetic.. ''if true'' ... pity those poor kids

but ALLAH will bring justice.. surely... if not in this world .. then in the next.. there is no escaping

Khuda nein ajtak us qaum keith halat nehein badli
Naun ho khial jis ko Ap apnei halat badalnei ka!

 

[Toony™®]

Madrassas child abuse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15256764

Britain's madrassas have faced more than 400 allegations of physical abuse in the past three years, a BBC investigation has discovered.

But only a tiny number have led to successful prosecutions.

The revelation has led to calls for formal regulation of the schools, attended by more than 250,000 Muslim children every day for Koran lessons.

The chairman of the Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board said he would treat the issue as a matter of urgency.

Leading Muslim figures said families often faced pressure not to go to court or even to make a formal complaint.

A senior prosecutor told the BBC its figures were likely to represent the tip of an iceberg.

BBC Radio 4's File on 4 asked more than 200 local authorities in England, Scotland and Wales how many allegations of physical and sexual abuse had come to light in the past three years.

One hundred and ninety-one of them agreed to provide information, disclosing a total of 421 cases of physical abuse. But only 10 of those cases went to court, and the BBC was only able to identify two that led to convictions.

The councils also disclosed 30 allegations of sexual abuse in the Islamic supplementary schools over the past three years, which led to four prosecutions but only one conviction.

The offender in that case was Mohammed Hanif Khan, an imam from Stoke-on-Trent who was imprisoned for 16 years in March this year for raping a 12-year-old boy and sexually assaulting a 15-year-old.

Some local authorities said community pressure had led families to withdraw complaints.

In one physical abuse case in Lambeth, two members of staff at a mosque allegedly attacked children with pencils and a phone cable - but the victims later refused to take the case further.

In Lancashire, police added that children as young as six had reported being punched in the back, slapped, kicked and having their hair pulled.

In several cases, pupils said they were hit with sticks or other implements.

The number of cases appeared to be rising - among those councils which broke down the figures by year, there were 89 allegations of physical abuse in 2009, 178 in 2010 and 146 in the first nine months of this year.

With more than half of Britain's 2.5m-strong Muslim population aged 25 or under, the number of madrassas, where children spend about 10 hours each week learning to recite the Koran in Arabic, is also growing rapidly.

Mohammad Shahid Raza, chairman of the Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board, set up by Muslim organisations to improve standards in mosques, said he would now treat the issue as a matter of urgency.

"These figures are very, very alarming and shocking. There is no justification for such punishments within our mosque schools," he said.

"I'm not sure how wide this unacceptable practice is, but our responsibility is to make those who run the mosques realise we live in a civilised society and this is not acceptable at any cost."

Mr Raza said he wanted the issue dealt with through self-regulation, but there are calls for the government to take action.

Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, founder of the Muslim Institute think tank, said large numbers of unregulated organisations were opening madrassas across the country - most in mosques but some in garages, abandoned pubs or private homes.

Abuse was far too common, he said.

"We are basically destroying the lives of young people," he said. "Some kind of system must be put in place to ensure that only teaching takes place there, not sexual or physical abuse."

Nazir Afzal, the chief crown prosecutor for the North West of England, said he believed the BBC's figures represented "a significant underestimate".

"We have a duty to ensure that people feel confident about coming forward," he said.

"If there is one victim there will be more, and therefore it is essential for victims to come forward, for parents to support them and for criminal justice practitioners to take these incidents seriously."

Corporal punishment is legal in religious settings, so long as it does not exceed "reasonable chastisement".

An official report published last year which called for a legal ban on the practice - and which was accepted by the Labour government just before the general election - has not yet led to any action.

The report's author, Sir Roger Singleton, chair of the Independent Safeguard Authority, said the BBC's figures were worrying and should be investigated further:

"That does lend weight to my view that we're not just dealing with isolated instances," he said. "So I would be quite concerned to understand why the allegations have not resulted in a greater number of prosecutions."

The children's minister, Tim Loughton, declined to be interviewed. But in a statement, the Department for Education said Mr Loughton had met Sir Roger and was considering his recommendations.

"The government does not support the use of physical punishment in schools and other children's settings," it said.

I use to remember a bit of physical violence in madrassas but over in Pakistan...! I think the imams in these makeshift madrassas are all mainly 'imports' and just following the same cycle of abuse ...they were brought up with.

Although, there are some Janwars which need to be shopped!

 

[Down2Earth]

I still remember when I was going to mosque straight after school. In the two hours at mosque, someone always got beaten up and on average after every 10 minutes or so. It might be different now but it was disgusting when I was there and i really hated going. This has to change. Too many jahil imported imams. Some were nice but most of them came in for boxing practice and to learn new ways of inflicting pain.
I must say that the sharp edge of the ruler on the head was quite painful. And then there was the key ring on the ear.

 

[attock]

Alot of the masjids are not allowed to hit any more..........But from what I have seen that the children now are very rude and do not respect the their teachers.......

 

[mani1]

Alot of the masjids are not allowed to hit any more..........But from what I have seen that the children now are very rude and do not respect the their teachers.......

I agree with this there have been some mosques which I have prayed Juma at where some kids have used it as a community centre disturbing people praying especially upstairs.

 

[shahrukh619]

Corporal punishment: For four-year-old Anum, ‘A’ will bring to mind a broken arm

With her left arm in plaster cast, a playful Anum has been confined to her bed for at least a month now. PHOTO: EXPRESS​

KARACHI:
Four-year-old Anum* rests on the bed with her left arm in a sling. On Saturday afternoon, the girl, who would not write down an alphabet as she wanted to go outside and play, was beaten by her tuition teacher so severely that she suffered a broken arm.

“My teacher twisted my arm when I did not write the letter ‘A’ in my copy,” says Anum as her large brown eyes well up with tears.
She then showed her back, where the teacher had carved an “A” with a pencil, to teach her a lesson. “It hurts here,” she whispered.

Anum’s mother Farhana told The Express Tribune that her daughter and her five-year-old son Anwar go for tuitions at the house of a Montessori teacher Nabeela* who lives opposite their residential apartments block in Gulistan-e-Jauhar.
Everywhere in the building complex, the teacher has pinned up posters, stating she is a qualified Montessori teacher and her home is open for summer tuitions and day-care.

“The children were getting bored in the vacations so I had them admitted to the centre. But I found it quite odd that there was no one else there besides my children.”

On Saturday, the teacher had called to inform Anum’s parents that the girl was complaining of pain in her arm.

“When we brought her home, we were shocked to see that her arm was hanging loosely,” Farhana said. “We immediately took her to the emergency [ward] at Liaquat National Hospital.”
Interrupting his mother, Anwar said: “Our teacher would keep us in separate rooms and beat us when we did not do our work.”
Farhana said that when her children complained about the teacher’s violent behaviour, she spoke to Nabeela, who assured her that she would never hurt them.

Meanwhile, the tuition teacher and her husband have gone away and locked their house. Their mobile phones are also switched off. The family has yet to register a case with the police.

Regarding the incident, Suhail Ahmed Abro of the Society for the Protection of the Rights of the Child (SPARC), said that corporal punishment is one of the most neglected problems in society. “Violent methods adopted by tutors or seminary teachers are not taken seriously by the victim families and often such matters are ignored,” he said.
Abro cited an example of a girl, who was beaten up by a cleric and had to be taken to Civil hospital, but the family refused to register a case against the seminary teacher.

According to SPARC, 54 cases of corporal punishment were reported in 2010 and the number rose to 74 in 2011.

However, Abro is optimistic that when the Sindh Prohibition of Corporal Punishment Bill would be passed by the Sindh Assembly, it will be effective to bring the rate of corporal punishment at educational institutions down.

* all names changed to protect privacy
Published in The Express Tribune, July 23rd, 2012.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/411784/...r-old-anum-a-will-bring-to-mind-a-broken-arm/

 

[shahrukh619]

There are some people who are just impatient, and people who are impatient can't really become good teachers.....

This tution teacher looks to be one of those typical impatient teacher.............

Surprised that the parents din't register an FIR

 

[Dolphins]

Put the tutor behind bars. She is a hazard to society.

 

[shahrukh619]

There are many cases which just goes un-noticed...........

I remember the tution i used to go to and the way that teacher used to beat students with thick wooden sticks..

 

[Smiling Creed]

Deplorable.......when will people understand all kids are not same, some grasp quick and others take time. It doesn't means the "left behind kids" are in any way lesser than others. Kids are not coming out of factory with exact specifications..

 

[Senman]

South-Asian countries on the whole doesn't know how to develop/teach their kids. Unless their parents are big-shots I don't see any kid escaping from the wrath of the teachers. Now that kid will forever be afraid of learning

 

[KingKhanWC]

I've noticed in Asian culture beating of kids by teachers is seen as normal in many parts. In the UK this teacher would have been charged with GBH, possibly getting a long jail term.

 

[shahrukh619]

I've noticed in Asian culture beating of kids by teachers is seen as normal in many parts. In the UK this teacher would have been charged with GBH, possibly getting a long jail term.

sometimes even parents encourage them

 

[DoosraTeesra]

Some teachers here in Pakistani International school Jeddah still severely beat students as senior as of grade 10. They only exercised restraint on the students of intermediate (Grade 11 and 12)

 

[Smiling Creed]

In India, corporal punishment has been banned by central govt, but still some jokers of highest quality are made education minister in states.

http://news.in.msn.com/exclusives/it/article.aspx?cp-documentid=250352833#page=1

 

[Invictus]

Some teachers here in Pakistani International school Jeddah still severely beat students as senior as of grade 10. They only exercised restraint on the students of intermediate (Grade 11 and 12)

Its not out of restraint its because of fear. They figure that once a kid has gone past grade 9 he is more likely to hit back or arrange a "meeting" with the teacher outside of the school.

 

[Senman]

In India, corporal punishment has been banned by central govt, but still some jokers of highest quality are made education minister in states.

http://news.in.msn.com/exclusives/it/article.aspx?cp-documentid=250352833#page=1

Yes truly a moment, I can even tolerate the corrupt but not this ignorant joker. They need lesson from Singapore, they have such a good primary-ed program, compare to that we are only making slaves.

 

[LongHorn]

Now that i remember it, children in my class would be beaten for not memorizing a poem or a multiplication table, how absurd can one get? Just because a child is slow in learning doesnt mean you beat him !

Its a cycle unfortunately, those who are beaten now sometimes grow up and beat children saying "i was beaten and it didnt kill me"

 

[DHONI183]

The status of teachers in subcontinental countries is vastly over-rated and undeserved. They are looked upon like parents. If a child comes home to complain to his parents after being beaten badly, the usual (retarded) reply is, "it´s okay beyta, they wish the best for you."

 

[Senman]

Beating up a child psychologically affects them, these teachers who beats children (under 12) are worse than criminals.

 

[saeedhk]

Disgusting.

 

[Zaz]

Its widespread in the subcontinet and as a result of migration has spread to madressas in europe

I remember as a kid being subject to violence at my local mosque from the teachers

If i was the kids dad id register a case and get her arrested asap

 

[Ambi]

Teacher 'breaks' boy's nose after losing at chess

Gurgaon : A class v boy was beaten by a teacher as he defeated him in a game of chess.Polices lodged a complaint after a sports teacher twisted the nose of the nine-year-oldboy, Prince, and even slapped him twice.
Anil Hada, chairman of Meenakshi Public School told that it all happeneddue to some misunderstanding and he also said that understanding has been made with the student family and there is no issue now.
Incident occurred on Wednesday, but the complaint was filed on Thursday.

Police registered a complaint but latter that both the parties had sorted out the matter themselves.

SRC

 

[Senman]

pathetic stuff & the sad thing is most of the parents would argue its for the betterment of their children

 

[Zaz]

twisted the nose of the nine-year-oldboy, Prince, and even slapped him twice.
Anil Hada, chairman of Meenakshi Public School told that it all happeneddue to some misunderstanding

How do you misunderstandingly slap a kid twice and and twist his nose?

 

[saeedhk]

Disgusting.

 

[Keith]

pathetic stuff & the sad thing is most of the parents would argue its for the betterment of their children

Laying a hand on child should never be condoned but in anger it is even worse.

I am not 1 for corporal punishment in any form.

I believe that if we teach our children that it is right to smack them then we are only furthering the notion that violence is an answer. In my opinion violence is never the answer.

Perhaps we have have fallen into the trap of this (smacking) being the "easier way out." It is fairly quick and then the matter is "solved. Much quicker than sitting down with the child and discussing these issues? My 2 cents is now spent!

 

[Cricketismylife]

Laying a hand on child should never be condoned but in anger it is even worse.

I am not 1 for corporal punishment in any form.

I believe that if we teach our children that it is right to smack them then we are only furthering the notion that violence is an answer. In my opinion violence is never the answer.

Perhaps we have have fallen into the trap of this (smacking) being the "easier way out." It is fairly quick and then the matter is "solved. Much quicker than sitting down with the child and discussing these issues? My 2 cents is now spent!

Spot on.

Sad thing is that strict parenting and corporal punishment has its biggest advocates in the subcontinent.

 

[cric_craze]

RageQuit

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Larkana: Student left paralysed and mute after brutal torture at Cadet college

https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/pak...d-mute-after-brutal-torture-at-cadet-college/

A teenage student was allegedly brutally tortured by a teacher in Cadet College Larkana.

Muhammad Ahmed, 13-and-a-half years old broke his sensitive bones of his neck after being strangulated and suffered a paralytic attack due to which his left limbs have been deadened.

His distressed father told that his son has been bed-ridden since August 10. “He is on a liquid diet as he can neither digest nor chew solid food,” he added.

“My son has made no recovery in more than three months … the torture my son has been subjected to is visible to everyone,” said Rashid. “Since the day of the incident, my son had been on ventilator for 18 days and underwent dialysis 14 times.”

“On August 6 just after school reopened after summer vacations I received a phone call from station master GM Bhatti saying that my son had suffered fits.”

He claims that when he reached the school his son was covered with injuries on his face, chest, head, back and lower limbs.

“My son, wearing school uniform, lay unconscious and bore torture marks on his right foot, back and neck. His eyes and tongue had popped out and his lips and tongue were bloodied,” he said.

Rashid said a doctor at the hospital referred his son to Karachi. “Now questions are being raised on the mental health of my son … If this was true, how did he manage to get admission in the cadet college?”

The distressed father said Ahmed excelled in his studies in Class VII at the same institution and won various quiz and spelling competitions. “He was a brilliant and hardworking student.”

After failing to get satisfactory treatment from doctors in Larkana he came to Karachi where health experts pointed out that the condition had been caused due to assault.

His medical treatment is possible in the United States doctors have said, but his parents claim they don’t have the resources to take him there. His father appealed to COAS for justice.

Sindh Chief Minister Murad Ali Shah took notice of that incident and vowed to hold a transparent inquiry and bear medical expenses for the student.

The Chief Minister directed his cabinet that the child be take abroad for treatment if the need arises. He added that strict action would be taken against any teacher found guilty of hurting Ahmed.

Provincial Education Minister Jaam Mehtab ordered the formation of a medical board to investigate the torture claim. “Corporal punishment by schoolteachers will not be tolerated,” he said.

[UTUBE]fK1_coeUcAc[/UTUBE]

 

[Syed1]

So sad.. We still have slave-master mentality.

 

[Syed1]

This made me so despondent. Koi haal nahi hai is mulk ka...

 

[jeetu]

This is just inhuman and heart-breaking. I hope he recovers.

 

[big_gamer007]

This is so sad to hear I hope the guilty are punished strictly.. wish a kid a speedy recovery..

 

[hussain123]

This is a sort of norm especially in state run schools and run of the mill private schools in the subcontinent that teachers usually treat students like animals and rarely are accounted for their misdemenour.there is also complicity of parents at some level who more often than not believe that teacher beating their ward is actually good for that him or her.

 

[Hamza_]

This is a sort of norm especially in state run schools and run of the mill private schools in the subcontinent that teachers usually treat students like animals and rarely are accounted for their misdemenour.there is also complicity of parents at some level who more often than not believe that teacher beating their ward is actually good for that him or her.

Indeed. We need to move on from this mentality. Our previous generations are so backward and out of logic. Even the current guys which are conservative and are not much into socio-economic stuff are like this.

 

[aloo paratha]

This is unacceptable... I have no words......

 

[Syed1]

Parents pardon cleric accused of beating their son to death in Karachi seminary

A cleric who allegedly beat his eight-year-old pupil to death at a seminary in Karachi's Bin Qasim Town area on Sunday was pardoned by the victim's family on Monday, Station House Officer Dhani Bux Marri said.

Mohammed Hussain had allegedly been subjected to corporal punishment by Qari Najmuddin in the past, after which he had run away from the seminary.

His parents, however, brought him back to the seminary yesterday but when he tried to flee again, Qari Najmuddin got hold of him and allegedly beat him to death with a blunt weapon.

He was taken into custody, but the victim's parents were reluctant to press charges and even refused to get a post-mortem examination done on the child's body.

Police earlier said they would lodge a first information report against the cleric on behalf of the state even if the family refused to pursue the case legally.

Corporal punishment is prohibited in Sindh, thanks to a law passed by the provincial assembly in February 2017.

The said law gave children protection against punishments to cause pain or discomfort by hitting, smacking, slapping, spanking, kicking, shaking or throwing child, scratching, pinching, biting, pulling hair or boxing ears or forcing child to stay in uncomfortable positions, burning, scalding or forced ingestion by any person in the family, workplace, in schools, other educational institutions, etc.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1384552/parents-pardon-cleric-accused-of-beating-their-son-to-death-in-karachi-seminary

 

[Syed1]

What is this garbage mentality of pardoning the culprit. The state needs to take action against this waste of skin.

 

[boomboomcheema]

Disgusting News. Can't believe it is happening in Karachi of all places and not some Pind.

 

[Markhor]

Some clerics preach goodness in a pulpit whilst committing evil behind closed doors. If you want a sense of how the religious right has become infested with filth in Pakistan, then read this article or at least the extracts posted below - this will sink your heart:

https://www.apnews.com/ddd9660f63ae4433966684823f79d3e9

KEHRORE PAKKA, Pakistan (AP) — Kausar Parveen struggles through tears as she remembers the blood-soaked pants of her 9-year-old son, raped by a religious cleric. Each time she begins to speak, she stops, swallows hard, wipes her tears and begins again.

The boy had studied for a year at a nearby Islamic school in the town of Kehrore Pakka. In the blistering heat of late April, in the grimy two-room Islamic madrassa, he awoke one night to find his teacher lying beside him.

“I didn’t move. I was afraid,” he says.

The cleric lifted the boy’s long tunic-style shirt over his head, and then pulled down his baggy pants.

“I was crying. He was hurting me. He shoved my shirt in my mouth,” the boy says, using his scarf to show how the cleric tried to stifle his cries. He looks over at his mother.

“Did he touch you?’” He nods. “Did he hurt you when he touched you?” ″Yes,” he whispers.

“Did he rape you?” He buries his face in his scarf and nods yes.

Parveen reaches over and grabs her son, pulling him toward her, cradling his head in her lap.

The case of Parveen’s son was one of at least three within a month in the towns of Kehrore Pakka and Rajanpur in Punjab province’s deep south, according to police reports. Another incident involved the drugging and gang rape of a 12-year-old boy asleep on his madrassa rooftop by former students. And the third was of a 10-year-old boy sodomized by the madrassa principal when he brought him his meal. The cleric threatened to kill the boy if he told.

The AP is not naming the children because they are victims of sexual abuse.

The fear of clerics was evident at the courthouse in Kehrore Pakka, where the former teacher of Parveen’s son waited his turn to go before a judge. A half dozen members of the radical Sunni militant organization Sipah-e-Sahabah were there to support the teacher.

The AP found hundreds of cases of sexual abuse by clerics reported in the past decade, and officials suspect there are many more within a far-reaching system that teaches at least 2 million children in Pakistan. The investigation was based on police documents and dozens of interviews with victims, relatives, former and current ministers, aid groups and religious officials.

A tally of cases reported in newspapers over the past 10 years of sexual abuse by maulvis or clerics and other religious officials came to 359. That represents “barely the tip of the iceberg,” says Munizae Bano, executive director of Sahil, the organization that scours the newspapers and works against sexual abuse of minors.

In 2004, a Pakistani official disclosed more than 500 complaints of sexual assaults against young boys in madrassas. He has since refused to talk, and there have been no significant arrests or prosecutions.

Religious Affairs Minister Sardar Muhammad Yousaf dismisses the suggestion that sexual abuse is widespread, saying such talk is an attempt to malign the religion, seminaries and clerics. He says he was not aware of even the cases reported in the newspapers, but that it could occur occasionally ’because there are criminals everywhere.” Yousaf says the reform and control of madrassas is the job of the interior ministry.

The Interior Ministry, which oversees madrassas, refused repeated written and telephone requests for an interview.

 

[Nostalgic]

Lies. No sexual or physical abuse happens in seminaries. It's all a yahoodi saazish.

Saracasm aside, the quote from the minister is identical to the quote from the then minister... in 2002. Back then, it was Ejaz ul Haq, Zia's son, and Musharraf's Religious Affairs minister. Ejaz had gone on to add that even if the odd incident did happen, we should avoid talking about it, lest it malign the holy fathers, and therefore by extension, Islam.

I guess some things never change.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

This "pardoning" option should be scrapped. It's a mockery of justice and used by powerful to literally get away with murder!

How can this be justice for the victim?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Seems the idea that beatings can be handed out by teachers is still acceptable in Pakistan. I think that's the major issue here above all else.

 

[Major]

The problem in pakistan is that the law makers don't understand that by pardoning and releasing a killer you are making society unsafe.

 

[DW44]

hi "pardoning" option should be scrapped. It's a mockery of justice and used by powerful to literally get away with murder!

How can this be justice for the victim?

Part of an Islamic law and therefore nigh enough untouchable. You can't touch the Islamic parts of Pakistani law without eliciting massive public outcry. There will be protests in major cities, the whole works.

 

[DW44]

His parents, however, brought him back to the seminary yesterday

Animals. If they have any more kids, they need to be taken away. I hope this kid's face haunts them for the rest of their lives.

 

[BaankeJi]

Poor kid. His bad luck that he had such parents.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Lies. No sexual or physical abuse happens in seminaries. It's all a yahoodi saazish.

Saracasm aside, the quote from the minister is identical to the quote from the then minister... in 2002. Back then, it was Ejaz ul Haq, Zia's son, and Musharraf's Religious Affairs minister. Ejaz had gone on to add that even if the odd incident did happen, we should avoid talking about it, lest it malign the holy fathers, and therefore by extension, Islam.

I guess some things never change.

Is it only holy figures who are allowed to beat kids? What about the general attitude towards corporal punishment? Obviously I am speaking from the POV of western society, where corporal punishment was banned a good while ago, and there weren't any exceptions made for any reason.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Part of an Islamic law and therefore nigh enough untouchable. You can't touch the Islamic parts of Pakistani law without eliciting massive public outcry. There will be protests in major cities, the whole works.

I just did a very quick read, this is only applicable if someone is "killed unintentionally".... to avoid eye for an eye situation.... ok granted this lunatic didn't intend for the boy to die, but the state should add further punishment on top of the compensation. For a start, he shouldn't be anywhere near teaching or preaching again.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I just did a very quick read, this is only applicable if someone is "killed unintentionally".... to avoid eye for an eye situation.... ok granted this lunatic didn't intend for the boy to die, but the state should add further punishment on top of the compensation. For a start, he shouldn't be anywhere near teaching or preaching again.

Is he a lunatic though? Seems to me, corporal punishment is seen as acceptable in Pakistani society, even to the extent that someone can be beaten to death. I find that absolutely astounding, on top of that, the parents have forgiven him, presumably on account of his holy status.

 

[DW44]

I just did a very quick read, this is only applicable if someone is "killed unintentionally".... to avoid eye for an eye situation.... ok granted this lunatic didn't intend for the boy to die, but the state should add further punishment on top of the compensation. For a start, he shouldn't be anywhere near teaching or preaching again.

That might be the literal interpretation but the version that's on the books in Pakistan is used regularly in cases of premeditated murder (Raymond Davis, Shahrukh Jatoi, thousands of honor killings). As for going after the preacher, it's unlikely. The law has taken its course and the matter is settled. "Should" doesn't even come into the equation because when was the last time Pakistani authorities did what they should do?

 

[Nostalgic]

Is it only holy figures who are allowed to beat kids? What about the general attitude towards corporal punishment? Obviously I am speaking from the POV of western society, where corporal punishment was banned a good while ago, and there weren't any exceptions made for any reason.

The difference is that Federal Ministers won't spoken out to defend a layperson accused of such an act. The ministers feel compelled to defend clerics, going so far as to deny that such acts take place, and to state that even if they did, we shouldn't mention them. Such gratuitous goodwill isn't extended to lesser mortals.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The difference is that Federal Ministers won't spoken out to defend a layperson accused of such an act. The ministers feel compelled to defend clerics, going so far as to deny that such acts take place, and to state that even if they did, we shouldn't mention them. Such gratuitous goodwill isn't extended to lesser mortals.

Just read the article properly, seems corporal punishment is already banned in Sindh, so the real problem is the culture of acceptance regardless of what the law says. When you have the parents themselves pardoning such a beating, that says it all how ingrained the mentality is. Not much you can do if the ministers and the public are in agreement here. Seems like the cleric could have shot the kid in the kneecaps before finishing him off, he would still have got a free pass.

 

[Nostalgic]

Just read the article properly, seems corporal punishment is already banned in Sindh, so the real problem is the culture of acceptance regardless of what the law says. When you have the parents themselves pardoning such a beating, that says it all how ingrained the mentality is. Not much you can do if the ministers and the public are in agreement here. Seems like the cleric could have shot the kid in the kneecaps before finishing him off, he would still have got a free pass.

I was primarily commenting on quote in the article Markhor posted, not so much the OP. Even if we agree that laws against corporal punishment, such as they are, are routinely flouted, do you think a federal minister would go to the trouble of denying there's a problem at primary schools?