Could an Indian Test team beat a World XI like Australia did?

[tyron_woodley]

The 99 team of Pakistan will beat them both at home and away. Shoaib Akhtar at his prime and Wasim with Saqlain as the spinner, this team will have no chance.

99 team wouldn't beat ganguly's team let alone Virat's behemoth of Asia and dhoni's team.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pakistan are ranked 7th in test ranking so current team cant be compared with Indias I guess you did that because you have lost the argument. Indian pace bowling record is poor and were out bowled regularly overseas. Indian batting line-up is the best in the world and their records suggest so but overseas team openly make swinging pitches etc knowing Indian bowlers will not be able to out bowl theirs and that's a FACT.

dude indian bowling has been good everywhere for the past 5 years? we dint lose due to poor bowling. Poor batting cost us.

we won in australia due to superior bowling and batting putting up scores.

we lost the series in South Africa because batting let us down. Games were close.

we lost in England again due to poor batting and missing players at crucial games. Look at the scores. It was all pretty close. Bowling actually had good figures but batting vs swing was pathetic. Our batsmen are good on flat tracks and spinning wickets. They suck vs swing. They play bounce alright.

 

[RamLakhan]

dude indian bowling has been good everywhere for the past 5 years? we dint lose due to poor bowling. Poor batting cost us.

we won in australia due to superior bowling and batting putting up scores.

we lost the series in South Africa because batting let us down. Games were close.

we lost in England again due to poor batting and missing players at crucial games. Look at the scores. It was all pretty close. Bowling actually had good figures but batting vs swing was pathetic. Our batsmen are good on flat tracks and spinning wickets. They suck vs swing. They play bounce alright.

If our bowling was bad/weak, then we would have lost some home matches also! Especially if our seam bowling in India was not this strong, then we would have not got this severe home domination (and others mock it as "HTB")! We can only imagine what happens if our "batting" also gets back to its usual best! (Answer to overseas debacles! Then we will see... I think a change of coach can work in this direction and fast-track, groom up some solid test batsmen in coming years!)

 

[Pakhs]

dude indian bowling has been good everywhere for the past 5 years? we dint lose due to poor bowling. Poor batting cost us.

we won in australia due to superior bowling and batting putting up scores.

we lost the series in South Africa because batting let us down. Games were close.

we lost in England again due to poor batting and missing players at crucial games. Look at the scores. It was all pretty close. Bowling actually had good figures but batting vs swing was pathetic. Our batsmen are good on flat tracks and spinning wickets. They suck vs swing. They play bounce alright.

Wrong you won in Australia because of poor Australian batting line up and Indian batting putting up big scores.

Everywhere else when India won it was due to batting putting up bigger score than opposition for example SA dead rubber where Rahane played out of his skin to put up a total any attack could defend on that wicket. Indian bowling has never bailed India out when batting did not put a big score for example when Pakistan regularly won in NZ it was Pakistan bowling who will outbowl NZ Pakistan never out up a big score and it was the bowling who will bowl NZ out for nothing scores like sub 150 and thats why they won.

So its just an illusion that media has created that India has got great bowlers now the FACT is that noone of them have got great records anyway - but at home with the two spinners who have great records they make a lethal bowling partnership and overseas they are just acceptable (the minimum requirement). And they are just doing an acceptable job at their peak all of India's bowlers are at their peak in terms of age and experience as compare to say Pakistan who have got very young bowlers and you dont win nothing with young bowlers unless the young bowler is Wasim.

Only Bumrah is young in terms of experience but he is not young in terms of Age.

 

[Pakhs]

99 team wouldn't beat ganguly's team let alone Virat's behemoth of Asia and dhoni's team.

Ganguly's team was millions times better at home - Anil kumble and other spinners were more than a match to current ones plus a batting line up full of legends.

 

[Rudi hater]

They can't even beat NZ let alone World Eleven.

 

[therealAB]

LOL kohli is better than Sachin - this kind of things clearly shows you are not serious in what you say and just here for a laugh which is fair enough

Kohli now is significantly better than 2012-2013 Sachin, who was really only playing for 100 hundreds

 

[tyron_woodley]

Ganguly's team was millions times better at home - Anil kumble and other spinners were more than a match to current ones plus a batting line up full of legends.

rofl no. Virat's india have too much depth for Asian conditions. Bowling is far superior and Indian batsmen in Asian conditions are always going to be solid. Virat's india would win comfortably. Kumble's leg spin would never trouble Virat's india. On turners it's a toss up but on a flat pitch with low or high bounce, Virat's india would pummel them comfortably everywhere.

The advantage ganguly's team had was against swing. That's only due to current crop playing too much t20 and not practicing county games like they used to. Should they play county for experience I would back Virat's team against them in swing conditions too.

 

[Pakhs]

rofl no. Virat's india have too much depth for Asian conditions. Bowling is far superior and Indian batsmen in Asian conditions are always going to be solid. Virat's india would win comfortably. Kumble's leg spin would never trouble Virat's india. On turners it's a toss up but on a flat pitch with low or high bounce, Virat's india would pummel them comfortably everywhere.

The advantage ganguly's team had was against swing. That's only due to current crop playing too much t20 and not practicing county games like they used to. Should they play county for experience I would back Virat's team against them in swing conditions too.

I think either you are just a kid or blind - Ganguly's India had 3 batter averaging over 50 in the top 6 and all of them GUN players of spin. Kumble and Co were as good as current crop if not better. The current team only winning so many matches at home because most other teams dont have spinners who can out bowl the current lot.

 

[Pakhs]

Kohli now is significantly better than 2012-2013 Sachin, who was really only playing for 100 hundreds

Kohli only pushed his average over 50 in the last 2 years. For most part he was just another player in test cricket averaging in 40s in his 10 year career - Sachin kept his average up for most part of his career into 50s.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I think either you are just a kid or blind - Ganguly's India had 3 batter averaging over 50 in the top 6 and all of them GUN players of spin. Kumble and Co were as good as current crop if not better. The current team only winning so many matches at home because most other teams dont have spinners who can out bowl the current lot.

dude we don't prepare turners. Sachin's team can beat Virat's india On turners not flat tracks that are being used now. in flat wickets, Virat's india would humiliate them.

On turners it's still 50 50 because Virat's india has a much better batting unit. It doesn't work that way btw. Indian batsmen in Asian conditions even now average well above 45 plus. Some are 50 plus. Makes no difference compared to ganguly's team. Especially with the batting depth and bowling depth, it won't end well for the former team.

 

[Pakhs]

dude we don't prepare turners. Sachin's team can beat Virat's india On turners not flat tracks that are being used now. in flat wickets, Virat's india would humiliate them.

On turners it's still 50 50 because Virat's india has a much better batting unit. It doesn't work that way btw. Indian batsmen in Asian conditions even now average well above 45 plus. Some are 50 plus. Makes no difference compared to ganguly's team. Especially with the batting depth and bowling depth, it won't end well for the former team.

You must be joking - I am yet to see an Indian wickets that doesnt turn but I guess you have been spoiled by seeing some of the wickets this Indian team prepared for SA where bowlers like Elgar took 5 wicket haul or against Australia where a nobody I even forgot his name took a 7 wicket haul. so rest of the wickets seem like non-turners to you.

For your information Harbajhan himself said he cant imagine what Kumble would have done on these wickets Indians are preparing now a days. Kumble and Harbajhan for most part of their career had to bowl to total flat wicket which would turn for the first 3.5 days.

 

[Rudi hater]

They need to win against NA before they compete against World Eleven.

 

[tyron_woodley]

You must be joking - I am yet to see an Indian wickets that doesnt turn but I guess you have been spoiled by seeing some of the wickets this Indian team prepared for SA where bowlers like Elgar took 5 wicket haul or against Australia where a nobody I even forgot his name took a 7 wicket haul. so rest of the wickets seem like non-turners to you.

For your information Harbajhan himself said he cant imagine what Kumble would have done on these wickets Indians are preparing now a days. Kumble and Harbajhan for most part of their career had to bowl to total flat wicket which would turn for the first 3.5 days.

no man. that was in 2015 and we all know what happened to south africa in that series. Ashwin and jaddu are better than kumble and harbhajan. They can also bat deep. Post 2017 it's been flat. England played on complete pattas and got spanked 4 0.

Like I said on turners it's still 50 50. Better bowling with equally good batting for Asian conditions. I don't see ganguly's team winning in Asia. In England and n.z ??sure ofcourse. In australia and south africa? Again that's a close one. I would say it's 50 50. In the past they used to practice more first class games prior to commencing the best series. India has a packed schedule now so there is no time for practice matches. If both teams had equally amount of preparation I would definitely back Virat's team in Asia. Ridiculously good in those conditions.

 

[Ozeirk]

99 team wouldn't beat ganguly's team let alone Virat's behemoth of Asia and dhoni's team.

I believe an older version of that team had already beaten India in India. You're forgetting Younis khans centuries and harbajan getting hit for six every other ball.

Also, the 99 Indian team was very similar to gangulys team bar one of two players.

Shoaib at his prime was virtually impossible to play even by the great Aussie side what will this Indian team do against him?

 

[tyron_woodley]

I believe an older version of that team had already beaten India in India. You're forgetting Younis khans centuries and harbajan getting hit for six every other ball.

Also, the 99 Indian team was very similar to gangulys team bar one of two players.

Shoaib at his prime was virtually impossible to play even by the great Aussie side what will this Indian team do against him?

no never happens. India beat pakistan in Pakistan. Not the other way around back in 2000 era. Pakistan won the Asia test tournament in 99 vs a much weaker indian side.

 

[Darkrai]

Here's my team for a rank turner:

1. Abid (i'll go with him over Shan)
2. Azhar (overall averages 50+ in Asian cond. and 45 since 2018 (aka his bad phase))
3. Root (a 50 is almost guaranteed regardless of conditions)
4. Smith
5. Babar (He has been in red hot form and more consistent than Kane in recent times)
6. Shakib
7. Mushfiqur (WK)
8. Yasir
9. Lyon
10. Commins
11. Shaheen (Will go with him over players like Starc, Boult, Rabada, etc. who have failed in India)

 

[Mamoon]

Here's my team for a rank turner:

1. Abid (i'll go with him over Shan)
2. Azhar (overall averages 50+ in Asian cond. and 45 since 2018 (aka his bad phase))
3. Root (a 50 is almost guaranteed regardless of conditions)
4. Smith
5. Babar (He has been in red hot form and more consistent than Kane in recent times)
6. Shakib
7. Mushfiqur (WK)
8. Yasir
9. Lyon
10. Commins
11. Shaheen (Will go with him over players like Starc, Boult, Rabada, etc. who have failed in India)

One can only laugh at the selection 5 Pakistani players in a world XI, even if it is for matches in Asia.

You forget we are ranked 7th in the world and lost in the UAE to New Zealand not long ago.

Azhar is quite average against spin bowling. There is a difference between flat or slow UAE pitches and Indian rank turners. Similarly, Babar and Abid are also untested on rank turners.

Shaheen is as likely to fail in India as the likes of Starc, Boult and Rabada.

Yasir is the only credible selection. He is in decline, but arguably still the best Test spinner after Ashwin, Jadeja and Lyon.

 

[Darkrai]

One can only laugh at the selection 5 Pakistani players in a world XI, even if it is for matches in Asia.

You forget we are ranked 7th in the world and lost in the UAE to New Zealand not long ago.

Azhar is quite average against spin bowling. There is a difference between flat or slow UAE pitches and Indian rank turners. Similarly, Babar and Abid are also untested on rank turners.

Shaheen is as likely to fail in India as the likes of Starc, Boult and Rabada.

Yasir is the only credible selection. He is in decline, but arguably still the best Test spinner after Ashwin, Jadeja and Lyon.

Feel free to provide your team, but i don't think there are many better options. I'll back Azhar over SENA openers who have already failed in India.

Who do you suggest over Babar?

You could replace Shaheen with Hazlewood. He will keep things tight while Cummins and spinners can attack.

 

[Ted123]

My XI for India tour would be

Karunaratne
Latham/Elgar
Babar
Smith
Root
Shakib
de Kock (wkt)
Rabada
Cummins
Yasir
Lyon

While the Indian team will be

Agarwal
Rohit
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane/ Rahul
Jadeja
Saha(wkt)
Ashwin
Shami
Yadav
Bumrah

Or get in Pandya in place of a pacer for strengthening batting more.

 

[The lone Ranger]

Here's my team for a rank turner:

1. Abid (i'll go with him over Shan)
2. Azhar (overall averages 50+ in Asian cond. and 45 since 2018 (aka his bad phase))
3. Root (a 50 is almost guaranteed regardless of conditions)
4. Smith
5. Babar (He has been in red hot form and more consistent than Kane in recent times)
6. Shakib
7. Mushfiqur (WK)
8. Yasir
9. Lyon
10. Commins
11. Shaheen (Will go with him over players like Starc, Boult, Rabada, etc. who have failed in India)

I'd pick Elgar over Abid, and Tom Latham over babar (who i'd pick only against SL or BD in Pakistan) , and Ben stokes over Yasir and Hazelwood over shaheen.

 

[Darkrai]

I'd pick Elgar over Abid, and Tom Latham over babar (who i'd pick only against SL or BD in Pakistan) , and Ben stokes over Yasir and Hazelwood over shaheen.

Since 2018, Babar averages more than Fab 4. During this time, he played in England, SA, and Aus. In other words, there is no better option than Babar.

 

[hitthestump]

World XI match in a neutral venue would be a bloodbath.

The argument (which is missing in the title) appears be how India would fare at home. But isn't any team very strong at home these days? I mean could a World XI have beaten Pakistan in the UAE in the MisYou era? Probably not.

The fact this India team is arguably the best of it's era doesn't necessarily mean anything. They have a good record but several of their top order batsmen are utterly forgettable. OK bowlers but will never have the privilege of being spoken about in Mcgrath-Gillespie, Walsh-Ambrose or Wasim-Waqar terms.

This thread really is a bit of a joke.

 

[Ozeirk]

no never happens. India beat pakistan in Pakistan. Not the other way around back in 2000 era. Pakistan won the Asia test tournament in 99 vs a much weaker indian side.

How is this a weak Indian team? 70% of your legends are playing that game at their peaks.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...tan-1st-match-asian-test-championship-1998-99

 

[tyron_woodley]

How is this a weak Indian team? 70% of your legends are playing that game at their peaks.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...tan-1st-match-asian-test-championship-1998-99

lol what peak??? dravid, ganguly, tendulkar and laxman were all still young. Their primes were in 2004-2010. Look at the bowling attack rofl.

that was a weak team. To win in Asia you need a good bowling attack because pakistan can bat almost just as well in Asian conditions too.

 

[tyron_woodley]

s.ramesh lol, mongia. That pakistan team was strong though and even then they barely beat an inferior indian side.

 

[Ozeirk]

s.ramesh lol, mongia. That pakistan team was strong though and even then they barely beat an inferior indian side.

Srinath, Kumble and harbajan are considered Indian bowling legends. How's that an ordinary bowling attack? How many bowlers have India produced better than this attack?

 

[tyron_woodley]

Srinath, Kumble and harbajan are considered Indian bowling legends. How's that an ordinary bowling attack? How many bowlers have India produced better than this attack?

the entire bowling attack is better than any indian attack. it is the best ever bowling attack from india. Current one I mean.

 

[RamLakhan]

How is this a weak Indian team? 70% of your legends are playing that game at their peaks.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...tan-1st-match-asian-test-championship-1998-99

Looking at this scoreboard (and also my memories of watching those games) it is evident how each of these bowlers (especially Srinath who took 5+8 = 13 wickets in this match to be on the losing side, that too bowling in India!) lacked a "proper team", just a "proper team"! There were at least 2 useless passengers in this team! One is the waste-gutter grade wicket-keeper batsman called "N.Mongia" (forget his keeping skills which is irrelevant) and the other is S.Ramesh (a very ordinary opening batsmen! Even Sri Lanka or Bangladesh of today would not pick him in their sides!) i.e., 2/11 is like 20% depleted side (and these are two crucial positions in the team - wicket keeper batsman who gives the balance to the side, the depth to the batting... And opener who should give a solid start to the innings! And even Laxman who was another opener in that match is also not a natural opener! So it disturbed the team composition completely!)

It is after we got guys like V.Sehwag (a solid & devastating opener - one of the ATG Test Opener), MS Dhoni (a reliable Wicket Keeper with additional skills like Captaincy)... that we started winning more test matches and opponents started to fear us! In today's Indian team there are no such passengers (Rahane is some kind of half-passenger I know, and openers are not consistent) but more importantly we have got that balance (depth in batting lineup and depth in bowling too - an option of 5th proper bowler!)

V.Prasad would have been useful as 3rd seamer overseas only (a very good bowler actually, but not good enough to play the role of 2nd seamer! And with just 2 seam bowlers, he becomes useless & ineffective with over workload on such flat pitches! But in today's team we have 3 quality seamers even in Indian conditions who are each good enough to lead an attack of any average sides! That's the difference!

Ashwin/Jadeja are superior to Kumble/Harbhajan simply because of the depth they give to the batting (cases like opposition piling 400+ in 1st innings and then India overhauling with 600+ & winning the match, the same match with our older teams would have easily ended up as draws or even defeats in spite of such big names in the batting lineup!) They are also aided very well by our 3 seamers (5 bowler policy), that's why they look better & more effective than Kumble/Harbhajan, its basically the combination! As individuals perhaps Srinath, Prasad, Kumble, Harbhajan are better than current bowlers, but as a combination they did not do well... Any of these bowlers playing today would have got more success and would have been more effective! The "Combination" is the most important thing in any sports!

So its all about looking at our current team with a different mindset - their combination, their attitude & approach - And not by matching head-to-head...

 

[RamLakhan]

NZ won the series against India (though at home) again because of "better combination" for those conditions (I know their batsmen & bowlers have more experience & exposure which is an important factor). India can improve their chances in such conditions also if they look at their combinations in such conditions (they need to do some tweaking! Same combination at home will not work there! Also they should never split the idea of playing 5 bowlers! We are playing 6th batsmen unnecessarily, it is not giving us any benefit except looking nice to the eyes with that 6th batsman sometimes scoring 50+ runs!) 3 seamers + 1 seam bowler alrounder (even if Pandya is not available at least play even like Vijay Shankar!) + 1 spinner. Better go the extent of dropping Rahane for this!

Pandya actually won us a lone game in England! Not that he single-handedly won the game, but he played a crucial role, the balance to the team! India should develop such players to improve their overseas records! That is the only way they can succeed!

 

[RamLakhan]

Comparing these eras, I can at least feel bit satisfied (though Kohli's & Shastri's stupidity is visible most times) that the current management has at least understood the importance of proper combination and approach!

 

[RamLakhan]

Also we saw how Gambhir (who paired up with Sehwag) improved our chances further in winning matches (many Test matches, ODI & T20 worldcups!) Perfect combination is so important (the secret of even the old Australian & West Indies sides if you look through - 1 to 11 everyone were giants and some waiting in the wings! India also can reach that level if they work through smartly!)