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Cousin Marriages [Discussion Thread]

cousin marriages is not an issue in pakistan, and also Islam does not prohibited it.
there may be some medical complications (to the offspring) when first cousins marry, but then it is in Allah's hands. all sickness and disease comes from him. there are people that i know are quite healthy despite their parents being first cousins.
 
Many cousins get married to each other.

I know of many couples that have had healthy offspring and are living great lives.

Personally, I have no interest in such a marriage. My parents weren't cousins and I won't get married like that, either.
 
My uncle is married to his first cousin, has 4 children, All perfectly healthy Alhamdolilah.
 
Good that none of you have been affected by it, but that does not mean that the risk is greater. It's like smoking 60 a day and not having cancer, thinking cigarettes are OK.
 
Cousin marriages are a serious issue. Its all well and good to claim that sickness and ill health all come from Allah, but if this is the case, then so does the scientific research which demonstrates the fact that cousin marriages are responsible for many rare diseases in children.
Since we now have this research at our fingertips it is sheer ignorance to continue this tradition, be it in Pakistan or in the UK.
 
Cousin marriages are a serious issue. Its all well and good to claim that sickness and ill health all come from Allah, but if this is the case, then so does the scientific research which demonstrates the fact that cousin marriages are responsible for many rare diseases in children.
Since we now have this research at our fingertips it is sheer ignorance to continue this tradition, be it in Pakistan or in the UK.

+10,000

There is evidence to prove that the risks are higher with cousin marriages. Why ignore it? This also gives a lot of ammo to anti immigrations nuts who feel that immigrants are the biggest burden on the NHS.
 
Pakistan is the 6 World's Most populated place... i think 75% marry cousins never heard any issue...
 
Cousin marriages are a serious issue. Its all well and good to claim that sickness and ill health all come from Allah, but if this is the case, then so does the scientific research which demonstrates the fact that cousin marriages are responsible for many rare diseases in children.
Since we now have this research at our fingertips it is sheer ignorance to continue this tradition, be it in Pakistan or in the UK.
What diseases? I have seen many cousin marriages and they all are alhumdulilah healthy. Its not a concept that appeals to me but if people wish to do it then why not?
 
There's a user on this board who has kids with disabilities from marrying his cousin. He made a really in depth post some time back and it was sad to hear what he and his family were going through. I don't know if he still posts now.

Personally, the thought of marrying cousins makes me sick.
 
What diseases?

in the programme there was pakistani family from bradford who had i think 4 children, 3 of which were born with a genrtic abnormality which meant they couldn't see, hear or communicate

it was quite harrowing viewing

there was a pakistani family from nelson with 2 children the girl was perfetly healthy but her brother had a seious liver condition which restriced his growth and also meant he was the youngest person to evver have a liver transplant

scientific evidence was presented which suggested that cousing marriage was the reason for these consditions

I have seen many cousin marriages and they all are alhumdulilah healthy.

I too have seen many cousin marriages and the children are alhumdulilah healthy, i have also seen cousin marriages where the children are alhumdulilah un-healthy.

i think the practice certainly in thsi country will gradually diminish

certainly the younger mulsim people interviwed in teh programme expressed an abhorance to the idea
 
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in the programme there was pakistani family from bradford who had i think 4 children, 3 of which were born with a genrtic abnormality which meant they couldn't see, hear or communicate

it was quite harrowing viewing

there was a pakistani family from nelson with 2 children the girl was perfetly healthy but her brother had a seious liver condition which restriced his growth and also meant he was the youngest person to evver have a liver transplant

scientific evidence was presented which suggested that cousing marriage was the reason for these consditions
thats really sad. I thought it was because each parent had some sort of genetic fault that is aggravated because due to cousin marriage because they have similar dna? That could be nonsense as Im no expert on DNA. Will check out the programme and see whats going on.
 
Cultural warfare. **** off and let us marry who ever we want.

the programmed didn't suggest this at all

it did say that political correcteness prevented this serious issue from being aired which is a fair point

if anything the mesage seemed to be that if you are married to a cousin or are planning to be, then take a genetic test to detrmine if there is a danger of abnormailty in your offspring

there was no view damning cousin marraige expressed in teh programme as i recall
 
Pakistan is the 6 World's Most populated place... i think 75% marry cousins never heard any issue...
Are you sure???
I believe it is one of the major factors that are contributing to Pakistani underachievement in Pakistan and around the world. Many offspring from these marriages appear to be healthy, but really suffer from unchecked learning difficulties due to conditions like mild forms of retardation that only manifest themselves clearly in later life. And judging by what I’ve seen in Pakistan and 'high cousin marriage' areas around the UK, I believe that the link is pretty conclusive.
 
In my opinion, cousins should never marry each other as someone said above, its just plain ignorance avoiding the consequences and is very similar to genetic inbreeding. I for one would never marry my cousin as for this problem and imo it's morally wrong.
 
I married a cousin, as did 2 of my brothers and 1 sister. Masha-Allah their kids are healthy, and Insha-Allah they will continue to be this way. It helped that all my cousins live in Pakistan, so we did not know them at all.

That having been said, I'm not in favour of cousin marriages. It is much better to marry someone from outside the family, and I think I read somewhere that Islam encourages building such new relationships. I certainly will not be entertaining thoughts of my children marrying any first cousin (Insha-Allah).

I've not had any children yet, and this kind of stuff does freak me out. However, I then read articles such as this (click here) and wonder whether the risk has been blown out of proportion due to political motives. Britons are having children at very late stage, and increased maternal age has also shown to increase the risk of certain disorders. You don't see too much in the media about this.
 
In my opinion, cousins should never marry each other as someone said above, its just plain ignorance avoiding the consequences and is very similar to genetic inbreeding. I for one would never marry my cousin as for this problem and imo it's morally wrong.

:13: how so?
 
" The absolute risk to first cousins having a child with a recessive genetic condition is about three in every 100 births, unless they have a family history of an autosomal recessive disorder, in which case the risk may be higher. When we also include the background risk of having a child with any type of congenital or genetic disorder, which applies in every pregnancy, the overall risk to first cousins rises to about six in every 100 births, i.e. double the risk in the general population. The great majority of pregnancies do not result in abnormalities. "

Human Genetics Commission: http://www.hgc.gov.uk/Client/Content.asp?ContentId=741
 
cousin marriages should be banned in the uk. I know many people who have disabled children. it's not worth marrying a cousin, why take such a risk?

And those saying that their relatives have healthy children, well remember, only the risk increases and it's not worth the risk as far as I'm concerned
 
Are you sure???
I believe it is one of the major factors that are contributing to Pakistani underachievement in Pakistan and around the world. Many offspring from these marriages appear to be healthy, but really suffer from unchecked learning difficulties due to conditions like mild forms of retardation that only manifest themselves clearly in later life. And judging by what I’ve seen in Pakistan and 'high cousin marriage' areas around the UK, I believe that the link is pretty conclusive.

Uh where did you get this from? Learning difficulties?
 
the programmed didn't suggest this at all

it did say that political correcteness prevented this serious issue from being aired which is a fair point

if anything the mesage seemed to be that if you are married to a cousin or are planning to be, then take a genetic test to detrmine if there is a danger of abnormailty in your offspring

there was no view damning cousin marraige expressed in teh programme as i recall

Should the message not have been that everyone should take a genetic test since there is danger of abnormality in non-cousin marriages as well?
 
Should the message not have been that everyone should take a genetic test since there is danger of abnormality in non-cousin marriages as well?

If you go to a carnival you will find messages on dangerous rides. Messages like," Pregnant women and heart patients are advised not to go on these rides". Does that mean that ride does not have any risks for for non-pregnant people? Of course it has but very minimum. Similarly it does not mean that any pregnant women or a heart patient will have a heart attack if they decide to ignore the rule and go on the ride

According to science any genetic abnormality multiplies manyfold and recessive unwanted genes become dominat when they share similar DNA. So in a nomral marriage genetic tests would be a 'good to have' thing but for relatives it becomes a 'should have' thing
 
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There's a user on this board who has kids with disabilities from marrying his cousin. He made a really in depth post some time back and it was sad to hear what he and his family were going through. I don't know if he still posts now.

Personally, the thought of marrying cousins makes me sick.


..I have 3 kids with disabilities (I married my first cousin)...I may have posted that, can't remember though.
 
i was disgusted by that maulana that simply refused to believe it despite being shown the proof. people like him are causing all the problems. credit to the maulana near the end for saying that there are risks, at least he acknowledged the risk.
 
" The absolute risk to first cousins having a child with a recessive genetic condition is about three in every 100 births, unless they have a family history of an autosomal recessive disorder, in which case the risk may be higher. When we also include the background risk of having a child with any type of congenital or genetic disorder, which applies in every pregnancy, the overall risk to first cousins rises to about six in every 100 births, i.e. double the risk in the general population. The great majority of pregnancies do not result in abnormalities. "

Human Genetics Commission: http://www.hgc.gov.uk/Client/Content.asp?ContentId=741


Although that is all true, it doesn't provide the whole picture. You see the issue is, cousins share the same grandparents. If one grandparent is a carrier of a certain defective gene, then it not uncommon for that gene to be passed onto both cousins. If they married outside the family, then it is unlikely for their partner to have the recessive gene. However, if they marry within the family, it is far more likely.

Once both parents have the recessive gene, there is 25% chance that each child they have will have serious disabilities. Even if a child doesn't have obvious physical disabilities, it is likely they will serious learning difficulties.

Pakistanis make up about 1.5% of the British population, yet their children account for 33% of the serious child disability cases in the UK.

The evidence is conclusive. I think we need to stop presenting ourselves as the victims and actually face what is purely a medical issue.

The other frankly pathetic thing about all this is that it is a classic case of the blurred distinction between culture and religion. A Pakistani man on the programme commented on how he thinks this is a tool to attack Muslims. What on earth does cousin marriages have to do with Islam? NOTHING! It isn't encouraged or discouraged. It was a sad state of affairs when the medical professionals kept going on about the need to gain the approval of local religious leaders.

Pakistanis need to realise that this is a cultural tradition practised only by Pakistanis and to a lesser extent Bangladeshis. The fact that the two nations happen to be Muslim nations is neither here nor there.

I might also add that if cousin marriages are a must, then at least go for genetic screening, which although can't screen for all risks, at least will eliminate a large proportion of them.
 
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A lot of posters in this thread are saying that they know children from cousin marriages who are healthy. How can you say with absolute certainty that they are healthy? Maybe the deformity or abnormality has not manifested itself yet. Maybe the child appears to be healthy but if you really dig deep, there might be various medical and health issues like propensity to fall sick, bad eyesight, attention deficit disorder and other learning difficulties, physically not as attractive (ever seen kids from mixed race marriages? They are usually very beautiful and intelligent), not as athletic on the sports field as other kids, illogical thinking and anger issues, etc. Perhaps the child has achieved only 75% of his ability and potential due to the fact that he/she has received certain negative genes from the common grandparent. How many kids from countries where excessive cousin marriages take place (mostly Islamic) go on to win an Olympic medal or a Nobel prize?

Sure Islam does not forbid cousin marriages. Islam also does not forbid driving at 200 kph while texting at the same time or crossing a busy road on foot with eyes closed. It does not mean that anyone should indulge in any of these harmful practices. Allah has given us common sense and we should use it.
 
A lot of posters in this thread are saying that they know children from cousin marriages who are healthy. How can you say with absolute certainty that they are healthy? Maybe the deformity or abnormality has not manifested itself yet. Maybe the child appears to be healthy but if you really dig deep, there might be various medical and health issues like propensity to fall sick, bad eyesight, attention deficit disorder and other learning difficulties, physically not as attractive (ever seen kids from mixed race marriages? They are usually very beautiful and intelligent), not as athletic on the sports field as other kids, illogical thinking and anger issues, etc. Perhaps the child has achieved only 75% of his ability and potential due to the fact that he/she has received certain negative genes from the common grandparent. How many kids from countries where excessive cousin marriages take place (mostly Islamic) go on to win an Olympic medal or a Nobel prize?

Sure Islam does not forbid cousin marriages. Islam also does not forbid driving at 200 kph while texting at the same time or crossing a busy road on foot with eyes closed. It does not mean that anyone should indulge in any of these harmful practices. Allah has given us common sense and we should use it.


You're confusing nature versus nurture elements. Genetically-linked ailments are very specific and poor eyesight, athleticism, winning Olympic medals or the Nobel prize has little to do with genetics.
 
I agree with the posters and the medical evidence, there is a massive increase link of harmful genes being passed on which could lead to some form of disability in first cousin marriages

My uncle and aunty are first cousins and they have 2 disabled kids out of 4. I have few other relatives whos kids have disability problems. Like a fellow poster said its not just physical disability, disability could manifest itself in emotional problems in kids or something that effects their intelligence etc

This isnt a attack on Islam, its a cultural problem not religious as Islam doesnt encourage this practice Only pakistanis and in small cases bengalis do this.

The sooner we start to accept this problem the better it will be for our communities
 
Should the message not have been that everyone should take a genetic test since there is danger of abnormality in non-cousin marriages as well?

the evidence seems to be that the risk of recesive genetic conditions is far greater when inter-cousin marraige is involved
 
Cousin marriages make me sick, i mean how could you marry your sister? And then increased risk of disablity.
 
Cousin marriages make me sick, i mean how could you marry your sister? And then increased risk of disablity.

Errrm except its not your sister though is it, otherwise she would be your sister and not your cousin
 
the evidence seems to be that the risk of recesive genetic conditions is far greater when inter-cousin marraige is involved

From what I recall the increase was depended on generation after generation involved in cousin marriages - for example someone marries their cousin, their parents were cousins and their parents and so on and so on

BUT I might be wrong since its been a while since I read anything related to this subject
 
From what I recall the increase was depended on generation after generation involved in cousin marriages - for example someone marries their cousin, their parents were cousins and their parents and so on and so on

BUT I might be wrong since its been a while since I read anything related to this subject

I heard same. Its generation of cousin marriages that cause higher risk.
 

First cousins are like family, they usually share a close bond with each other. Also, knowing that their parents are your uncles or aunties, I just don't think you can be happy by marrying your first cousin.
 
A lot of posters in this thread are saying that they know children from cousin marriages who are healthy. How can you say with absolute certainty that they are healthy? Maybe the deformity or abnormality has not manifested itself yet. Maybe the child appears to be healthy but if you really dig deep, there might be various medical and health issues like propensity to fall sick, bad eyesight, attention deficit disorder and other learning difficulties, physically not as attractive (ever seen kids from mixed race marriages? They are usually very beautiful and intelligent), not as athletic on the sports field as other kids, illogical thinking and anger issues, etc. Perhaps the child has achieved only 75% of his ability and potential due to the fact that he/she has received certain negative genes from the common grandparent. How many kids from countries where excessive cousin marriages take place (mostly Islamic) go on to win an Olympic medal or a Nobel prize?

Sure Islam does not forbid cousin marriages. Islam also does not forbid driving at 200 kph while texting at the same time or crossing a busy road on foot with eyes closed. It does not mean that anyone should indulge in any of these harmful practices. Allah has given us common sense and we should use it.

Pretty much sums the whole situation up. And I completely agree on the mixed race thing.
 
The topic is based on British Pakistanis who represent about 2 percent of the population therefore the figures they have based there research on is not credible. To truly understand this research needs to take place in Pakistan and Bangladesh where the population is bigger to understand the link. Denying or banning cousin marriages does not make sense if you think back to the days of Adam and Eve of when these thing would have been common and where the descendants of them . Therefore i conclude this thread and say its been blown out of proportion and the documentary was flawed.
 
The topic is based on British Pakistanis who represent about 2 percent of the population therefore the figures they have based there research on is not credible. To truly understand this research needs to take place in Pakistan and Bangladesh where the population is bigger to understand the link. Denying or banning cousin marriages does not make sense if you think back to the days of Adam and Eve of when these thing would have been common and where the descendants of them . Therefore i conclude this thread and say its been blown out of proportion and the documentary was flawed.

That was then, this is now. Why take the risk when there is a risk?
 
Why the attraction to cousin marriages, though?

The risk is there and everyone knows it - why go down that road and take a chance?

Just get married to someone who isn't your cousin. Surely, other singles [non-cousins] can be found in the world?

From those that have cousin marriages - I would love to get an answer for my question.
 
Why the attraction to cousin marriages, though?

The risk is there and everyone knows it - why go down that road and take a chance?

Just get married to someone who isn't your cousin. Surely, other singles [non-cousins] can be found in the world?

From those that have cousin marriages - I would love to get an answer for my question.

It's simple - it's the knowledge that the person coming in to the family is well-known. It has nothing to do with no one else being available.

I would also suggest to those that are calling it by various derogatory terms, that they exercise restraint. The Quran allows this very clearly - given that it has been deemed halal, rejecting it, and then deeming it something else would not be wise. We don't know under what hikmat this has been allowed.

Just my two cents.
 
The topic is based on British Pakistanis who represent about 2 percent of the population therefore the figures they have based there research on is not credible. To truly understand this research needs to take place in Pakistan and Bangladesh where the population is bigger to understand the link. Denying or banning cousin marriages does not make sense if you think back to the days of Adam and Eve of when these thing would have been common and where the descendants of them . Therefore i conclude this thread and say its been blown out of proportion and the documentary was flawed.

Its not 2 people, its 2 percent of 60 odd million which still accounts to over 1 million people

And fact is 2 percent of population has 30 percent of all disabilty, if that aint conclusive enough i dont know what is!!!!!
 
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Its not 2 people, its 2 percent of 60 odd million which still accounts to over 1 million people

And fact is 2 percent of population has 30 percent of all disabilty, if that aint conclusive enough i dont know what is!!!!!


about 8 million people are registered disabled in uk. Okay that two percent may account for one million. Compare the research in a country such as pakistan which has 160+ million plus people i belive the percentage would be lower as the quantity of people is higher. If islam allows it then its gods word and final. Simple. If not outlawed by Allah then man cant say anything
 
about 8 million people are registered disabled in uk. Okay that two percent may account for one million. Compare the research in a country such as pakistan which has 160+ million plus people i belive the percentage would be lower as the quantity of people is higher. If islam allows it then its gods word and final. Simple. If not outlawed by Allah then man cant say anything

Islam allows it but doesnt encourage it, or else all muslims in world would marry their first cousins

Why is it pakistan and to some extent bangladesh are only muslim countries in world where this practice occurs???
 
Islam allows it but doesnt encourage it, or else all muslims in world would marry their first cousins

Why is it pakistan and to some extent bangladesh are only muslim countries in world where this practice occurs???

Cause maybe its more to do with culture than religion.
 
Why is it pakistan and to some extent bangladesh are only muslim countries in world where this practice occurs???


it happens amomgst indian muslims

i have spoken to iranians, arabs and turks who say it also happens in their contries but is more a rural custom

the prgramme mentioned it occuring in east african cultures too
 
This cultural practice has led to a serious decline in the quality of the gene pool and is one of the major reasons for the intellectual decay in the muslim world. Please note that the above comment is not in any way denigrating the great religion of Islam or the Quran. As I mentioned in a earlier post (#30), as Islam does not forbid cousin marriages or driving at 200 kph while texting at the same time or crossing a busy road on foot with eyes closed, it does not mean that anyone should indulge in any of these harmful practices.
 
It's simple - it's the knowledge that the person coming in to the family is well-known. It has nothing to do with no one else being available.

I would also suggest to those that are calling it by various derogatory terms, that they exercise restraint. The Quran allows this very clearly - given that it has been deemed halal, rejecting it, and then deeming it something else would not be wise. We don't know under what hikmat this has been allowed.

Just my two cents.

I understand the "well-known" bit, but even with the added risk?

I don't mean to be harsh or rude, but it doesn't seem logical.
 
This cultural practice has led to a serious decline in the quality of the gene pool and is one of the major reasons for the intellectual decay in the muslim world. Please note that the above comment is not in any way denigrating the great religion of Islam or the Quran. As I mentioned in a earlier post (#30), as Islam does not forbid cousin marriages or driving at 200 kph while texting at the same time or crossing a busy road on foot with eyes closed, it does not mean that anyone should indulge in any of these harmful practices.


this analogy is totally wrong. first of all when islam was revealed then there were no cars and there was no way for one to travel at speeds of 200kph. islam does say to stay away from things that cause harm. and we all know that driving at speeds in excess is quite dangerous and will cause harm, hence islam does actually tell us not to drive at excess of 200 kph because it is simply harmful. the same analogy can be applied to smoking and drugs, that they cause harm to the person and to others as well, hence they are prohibited.
 
source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544772

Title
Islamic View on Marrying Cousins

Question

What is Islam's position on marriages between cousins? I ask you this question because of the growing controversy that such marriages are not healthy and are very likely to cause serious birth defects in the offspring. Please answer this question in the light of the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah. I would also like if you could give your own opinion on this subject matter keeping in mind the health risks posed by such marriages. Thank You.

Date

02/Jan/2003


Name of Counsellor

Group of Muftis


Topic

Marriage

Answer

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

Answering the question in point, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

"Marriages between first cousins are allowed in Islam. In surat an-Nisa' (4:22-24), Allah mentioned the women who are forbidden for marriage and then He said, "… Lawful to you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you may seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock…" In surat al-Ahzab (33:50), Allah mentioned to the Prophet that he may marry the daughters of his uncles and aunts from the father's side or the mother's side. It is the consensus of the jurists that this permission was not only for the Prophet, but it is also a permission for other believers. Muslims have practiced marriages between first cousins in all countries since the time of the Prophet.

Such marriages are allowed in many other religions and cultures as well. In United States, most of the states allow marriages between the first cousins. There is nothing wrong in this marriage.

However, it is a good practice to have a blood test before marriage. If one suspects some hereditary disease or any other problem then he/she should seek the advice of a medical expert in this field. The chances of health risk in this marriage are very rare. Most of the marriages have been good and children quite healthy."

Excerpted, with slight modifications from: http://pakistanlink.com/religion.html

Elaborating on this issue, we'd like to cite the fatwa issued by Sheikh M. S. Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi Muslim lecturer and author. He states:

"There is no objection whatsoever in the Islamic religion for a man to marry any of his relatives except those forbidden for marriage whom Allah mentioned in surat an-Nisaa' (4: 23) Thus, when Allah mentioned for us the relatives to whom marriage is forbidden, we then come to know that there is no objection for the remainder of the family relations.

Among the most prominent evidence of this fact is that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) married his daughter Fatimah to `Ali (may Allah be pleased with them) and he is the son of her father's uncle, as well as the marriage of the Prophet himself to Zaynab bint Jahsh (may Allah be pleased with her) and she is his aunt's daughter (i.e. his cousin); and there are many other such examples.

However, a different question may be asked, namely: "Is it better or preferable for a Muslim to marry someone he is not related to rather than a relative?"

The answer to this question varies from case to case, and perhaps it may be preferable to marry people who are non-relations, for example if one aspires to form new social ties or bonds, and regards the existence of a marriage relationship with a different family as constructive in widening the circle of social bonds." (Source: www.islam-qa.com)

Elaborating on the issue whether it is preferable not to marry close cousins, we’d like to cite for you the following fatwa:

“Islam permits marriage between first cousins. If we read the Qur'anic verses which enumerate women to whom a Muslim cannot be married, you will find that this list does not include cousins.

The Islamic view is that while marriage between cousins is permissible, it is preferable to choose a marriage partner from outside one's family. We have to distinguish between what is permitted and what is advocated. Some clans restrict marriages to amongst their kin only – a practice far from what is advocated. It is worth stressing here that when marriage of cousins is repeated over several generations, they are bound to have more effects on children.

By permitting such marriages Islam does not encourage them. It advocates the cementing of social relations through marriages between totally unrelated families.

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) once told one of his Companions to choose a wife from a tribe different to his, and then to choose for his son a wife from a third tribe, and to seek for his second son a girl from yet another tribe.

Preferring this course of action, Islam nevertheless permits marriage between cousins because it meets a social need.”

Excerpted, with modifications, from: www.islamicity.com

In conclusion, it is clear that Islam, undoubtedly, permits marrying cousins. As for the issue of preferring to choose a marriage partner from outside one's family, this varies from one case to another. Yet, Islam is generally keen to widen the circle of social bonds. As for the fear of hereditary diseases, it is a good practice to have a blood test before marriage. If one suspects some hereditary disease or any other problem then he/she should seek the advice of a medical expert in this field.

May Allah guide you to the straight path and direct you to that which pleases Him, Ameen.
 
This cultural practice has led to a serious decline in the quality of the gene pool and is one of the major reasons for the intellectual decay in the muslim world. Please note that the above comment is not in any way denigrating the great religion of Islam or the Quran. As I mentioned in a earlier post (#30), as Islam does not forbid cousin marriages or driving at 200 kph while texting at the same time or crossing a busy road on foot with eyes closed, it does not mean that anyone should indulge in any of these harmful practices.

There was no problem with the gene pool when the Muslims were ruling half the planet was there?

Instead of making generalizations and assumptions, why don't you do some research on exactly what disabilities come about as a result of recessive genes. So far we've had gems like not making it in the Olympics, not winning Nobel prizes, poor temper and thinking.
 
If people knew the history of Channel 4, you would know they enjoy making programmes about Muslims and Pakistani's in a negative way.

The evidence is not conclusive in first time cousin marriages, it's only in cousin marriages through generations.

In Islam it's encouraged to marry away from your family, yet in Europe incest is legal.

Pakistani's marry in their family because they know their daughters will not be messed about with but secularists have dozens of partners which lead to all sorts of disases which lead to many more problems.

Islam is always superiour to their ideoligy, this is why they try their very best to discredit it any which way they can.
 
this analogy is totally wrong. first of all when islam was revealed then there were no cars and there was no way for one to travel at speeds of 200kph. islam does say to stay away from things that cause harm. and we all know that driving at speeds in excess is quite dangerous and will cause harm, hence islam does actually tell us not to drive at excess of 200 kph because it is simply harmful. the same analogy can be applied to smoking and drugs, that they cause harm to the person and to others as well, hence they are prohibited.

HOW CAN YOU NOT REALISE THE OBVIOUS FLAW IN WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!! Islam does tell us to stay away from things that cause harm. Using the exact same logic, the medical evidence has shown the cousin marriages cause harm. By your own logic therefore, we must refrain from cousin marriages.
 
I understand the "well-known" bit, but even with the added risk?

I don't mean to be harsh or rude, but it doesn't seem logical.

This 'added risk' has only been mentioned recently yet cousin marriages have been taking place for years - you honestly think anyone that partook/partakes in such marriages was/is aware of this 'added risk'?
 
Its not 2 people, its 2 percent of 60 odd million which still accounts to over 1 million people

And fact is 2 percent of population has 30 percent of all disabilty, if that aint conclusive enough i dont know what is!!!!!

Where did you ger these 'facts' from? Because as orthodox_spin has mentioned they dont add up

There are 10 million disabled people in the UK - your 'fact' suggests that 3 million of those disabled people are of Pakistani ethnicity BUT according to the 2001 census the number of Pakistani's stands at 750,000

If you add Bengalis to that the figure is just over 1 million - if you add Indians then its just over 2 million - so for your figures to be correct every Pakistani, Indian and Bengali has to be disabled in the UK BUT that still leaves a shortfall of 1 million ???????????????????
 
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HOW CAN YOU NOT REALISE THE OBVIOUS FLAW IN WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!! Islam does tell us to stay away from things that cause harm. Using the exact same logic, the medical evidence has shown the cousin marriages cause harm. By your own logic therefore, we must refrain from cousin marriages.


Rubbish.

1. Allah(swt) is all knowing, he would have forbidden cousin marriages but did not but instead we are advised to marry out.

2. There science is inconclusive and there are differences of opinions for first time cousin marriages in the families history.

This is yet anothe vieled attack on Muslims. Like I said earlier, incest is legal in Europe, but they haven't made a programme on that.
 
Rubbish.

1. Allah(swt) is all knowing, he would have forbidden cousin marriages but did not but instead we are advised to marry out.

2. There science is inconclusive and there are differences of opinions for first time cousin marriages in the families history.

This is yet anothe vieled attack on Muslims. Like I said earlier, incest is legal in Europe, but they haven't made a programme on that.

1. I'm not saying cousin marriages are forbidden, but just that by the previous poster's logic, they would be. It is a very valid point that there is a difference between what is permissible and what is encouraged. This is permissible in Islam.

I don't understand why people continually bring religion into this. It is a cultural thing and has nothing to do with Islam. Asking someone to change medically damaging cultural traditions has got absolutely nothing to do with Islam. So please, stop all this 'oh this is another attack on Muslims' nonsense.

2. You are DELUDED. The science is as conclusive as the science about the damage of smoking to your lungs or alcohol to your liver.

There have been over 70 scientific studies on first cousin marriages. 100% of the studies have concluded that cousin marriages increase the risk of children being born with serious disabilities.

Since you clearly haven't read my earlier post, I shall repeat what I said. Pakistanis make around 1.5% of the British population, yet 33.3% of all new cases of child disabilities are Pakistani children.

When two parents have the defective gene, something very likely when you have the same grandparents, there is one in four chance that every child you have will be seriously disabled.

In Bradford and Birmingham, where the Pakistani communities are based, the number of cases of child disability is many, many times the levels of other areas in the country.

Wake up and face the truth or continue to be oblivious and allow unnecessary child suffering.
 
So next time someone from Bradford or Birmingham posting on PP can be dismissed as being retarded? At least one-third of them?
 
This 'added risk' has only been mentioned recently yet cousin marriages have been taking place for years - you honestly think anyone that partook/partakes in such marriages was/is aware of this 'added risk'?

In the past, it was fair. There were no studies out in regards to cousin marriages creating added risk for the offspring's development [mental or physical].

However, now studies are out and it would make sense to avoid these marriages. I just hope people aren't sweeping aside the risk and are going ahead with such marriages because the family is "well known" to them.
 
one of the most beautiful girls i know, her mum and dad are first cousins
 
If people knew the history of Channel 4, you would know they enjoy making programmes about Muslims and Pakistani's in a negative way.

The evidence is not conclusive in first time cousin marriages, it's only in cousin marriages through generations.

In Islam it's encouraged to marry away from your family, yet in Europe incest is legal.

Pakistani's marry in their family because they know their daughters will not be messed about with but secularists have dozens of partners which lead to all sorts of disases which lead to many more problems.

Islam is always superiour to their ideoligy, this is why they try their very best to discredit it any which way they can.

Then why don't many Arabs and Africans marry within the family? This is clearly only a cultural thing. Pakistani's tend to be way to defensive any way.
 
one of the most beautiful girls i know, her mum and dad are first cousins

So? Its been proven that chances of disablity increases many times but its not 100%. She got lucky, good for here.
 
So? Its been proven that chances of disablity increases many times but its not 100%. She got lucky, good for here.

I personally dont agree with it, i think its sick!

Its an excuse to say that families will already know each other. The reason why this has become a trend is because families find it a lot cheaper to get them married within than outside.

I luckily have no first cousins whom i can potentially get married to, but i hate the fact that pakistanis think of it as normal rather than sick. The Quran does not prohibit it, but it doesnt encourage it either!
 
one of the most beautiful girls i know, her mum and dad are first cousins

Maybe she would have been even more beautiful if her parents were not related. Maybe she has beauty but is mentally inferior or not as smart as she would have been otherwise.
 
Maybe she would have been even more beautiful if her parents were not related. Maybe she has beauty but is mentally inferior or not as smart as she would have been otherwise.

OK now this is just plain stupid. Some people have made some very silly comments like this, such as another poster who wrote about cousin marriage children being less beautiful than others! Seriously, people who make these comments need their own brain checking before they comment on others.

My own cousins are children of a cousin marriage and I can happily report that few in the country could match the academic achievements of two of them.

The whole point is that not everybody is affected. It's not as if all cousin marriages end in tragedy. That is not what I have been saying at all and that is not what the experts say either. However, the chances of having abnormal children are far higher in cousin marriages. Why take the risk when it can be avoided is the point.

In Pakistani circles, if you don't marry your cousin, an aunty will comment 'wasn't there someone in the family?' or 'Oh, there must not have been someone in the family'. It's portrayed as some sort of negative. This attitude needs changing for the good of all Pakistanis and for the good of the country too.

A disabled child born out of these marriages costs the NHS £750,000 a year to look after. That is a staggering fact.
 
OK now this is just plain stupid. Some people have made some very silly comments like this, such as another poster who wrote about cousin marriage children being less beautiful than others! Seriously, people who make these comments need their own brain checking before they comment on others.

My own cousins are children of a cousin marriage and I can happily report that few in the country could match the academic achievements of two of them.

The whole point is that not everybody is affected. It's not as if all cousin marriages end in tragedy. That is not what I have been saying at all and that is not what the experts say either. However, the chances of having abnormal children are far higher in cousin marriages. Why take the risk when it can be avoided is the point.

In Pakistani circles, if you don't marry your cousin, an aunty will comment 'wasn't there someone in the family?' or 'Oh, there must not have been someone in the family'. It's portrayed as some sort of negative. This attitude needs changing for the good of all Pakistanis and for the good of the country too.

A disabled child born out of these marriages costs the NHS £750,000 a year to look after. That is a staggering fact.

Agree completely.

Exact point I have been trying to make.
 
This 'added risk' has only been mentioned recently yet cousin marriages have been taking place for years - you honestly think anyone that partook/partakes in such marriages was/is aware of this 'added risk'?

Geordie, till only uptil 100 years ago people thought that worms are spontaneously created from dirt. We have only reached some understanding of genes and inheritance in the last couple of decades. So obvioulsy, no one made the connection between cousin marriages and a rise in disabilities. Just like it took a while for people to make a connection between tobacco and cancer. that happened only after we understood how cancer is caused
 
Where did you ger these 'facts' from? Because as orthodox_spin has mentioned they dont add up

There are 10 million disabled people in the UK - your 'fact' suggests that 3 million of those disabled people are of Pakistani ethnicity BUT according to the 2001 census the number of Pakistani's stands at 750,000

If you add Bengalis to that the figure is just over 1 million - if you add Indians then its just over 2 million - so for your figures to be correct every Pakistani, Indian and Bengali has to be disabled in the UK BUT that still leaves a shortfall of 1 million ???????????????????

Funny how this has not been responded to....
 
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Geordie, till only uptil 100 years ago people thought that worms are spontaneously created from dirt. We have only reached some understanding of genes and inheritance in the last couple of decades. So obvioulsy, no one made the connection between cousin marriages and a rise in disabilities. Just like it took a while for people to make a connection between tobacco and cancer. that happened only after we understood how cancer is caused

Thats the point I am making - nobody really knows of these 'added risks', its only recently that its becoming an issue and the media are going with it - I doubt very much the aunties know about these media stories/reports

Having said that I think the added risk is exagerrated - from what I have read and I am sure there was a thread on this topic previously, the risk comes from generation upon generation taking part in cousin marriages

iirc the figures were something like as follows - 95 out of 100 children will be fine in none cousin marriages BUT in cousin marriages it is 92 out of 100, at worst
 
Where did you ger these 'facts' from? Because as orthodox_spin has mentioned they dont add up

There are 10 million disabled people in the UK - your 'fact' suggests that 3 million of those disabled people are of Pakistani ethnicity BUT according to the 2001 census the number of Pakistani's stands at 750,000

If you add Bengalis to that the figure is just over 1 million - if you add Indians then its just over 2 million - so for your figures to be correct every Pakistani, Indian and Bengali has to be disabled in the UK BUT that still leaves a shortfall of 1 million ???????????????????

I think what he meant to say is that a third of all child disability cases in the UK are Pakistani children. That is a correct fact because I heard it myself on the C4 documentary.
 
Thats the point I am making - nobody really knows of these 'added risks', its only recently that its becoming an issue and the media are going with it - I doubt very much the aunties know about these media stories/reports

Having said that I think the added risk is exagerrated - from what I have read and I am sure there was a thread on this topic previously, the risk comes from generation upon generation taking part in cousin marriages

iirc the figures were something like as follows - 95 out of 100 children will be fine in none cousin marriages BUT in cousin marriages it is 92 out of 100, at worst

The issue is that if one of your grandparents have the recessive gene, and that gene is passed onto both cousins (very likely), then the chance of having disabled children is 25%. It's highly unlikely that you marry someone outside your family who has that recessive gene.
 
Even if cousin marriages are such a necessity - surely a blood test can be done by both individuals?

In fact, blood tests should be done regardless of cousin marriages or non-cousin marriages.

If you aren't doing those, then you are being ignorant - in my opinion.
 
I think what he meant to say is that a third of all child disability cases in the UK are Pakistani children. That is a correct fact because I heard it myself on the C4 documentary.

Just because the documentary says it doesnt make it true

I find that figure very hard to believe - will have to see if I can find the research that was done to get those figures
 
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