Cricket World Cups of 1975/79/83/87 were never competitive due to NON-participation of South Africa

[Sarwar89]

There is no hiding from the fact that 1992 is Generally considered the 1st Cricket World Cup to be fully competitive. Because it featured the best 9 participating teams.

By the Time Ban was imposed on Apartheid South African Cricket team in 1970-71, it was arguably the best cricket team around, they thrashed the Aussies 4-0 in Test series just before the ban.

With the likes of Graheme Pollock, Barry Richards, Mike Procter, Clive Rice, Peter Pollock and Ali Bacher were denied 1975 world cup appearance. I for one do not believe that West Indies and Australia would have contested 1975 Final, if South Africa were participating.

What legitimacy these 4 world cups have ? Yes we can say In Football world cups sometimes best teams do not qualify but they fail to qualify in world cup qualifiers. In South African case, the ban was imposed.

At this stage South Africa has not won a Cricket world cup, I firmly believe they would have won the 1975 world cup. Barry Richards scored a Test 300 in a single day at shield cricket in 1970's. Shall we say West Indies of 75/79 were lucky.

Imran Khan can at-least claim that he won the world cup when South Africa did participate.

 

[kingusama92]

They would have choked. It's a generational trait.

 

[Sarwar89]

They would have choked. It's a generational trait.

I do not agree, The South Africa Cricket team of late 1960's and early 1970's was composed of different DNA. They were simply superb. Obviously a gap of 20 years did affect their Limited Overs cricket temperament. That is why some chokes happened.
But in Test arena they have been the best team in 21st Century (all round).

 

[Mp812]

I agree. How about scrapping from record books the records pre 1992 world cup. Also any world cups not involving Ireland and Bangladesh should be null and void

 

[boomboomcheema]

I agree. How about scrapping from record books the records pre 1992 world cup. Also any world cups not involving Ireland and Bangladesh should be null and void

Agree with that one , Bangaldesh being the Giant's that they are raise the overall competitiveness of the tournament in which they participate. Look no far away from the first time Bangaldesh and Pakistan met at the CWC and what happened.

Teams before the 1999 WC got lucky that they never had to face a Strong resilient unit like Bangaldesh.

 

[Slog]

I do not agree, The South Africa Cricket team of late 1960's and early 1970's was composed of different DNA. They were simply superb. Obviously a gap of 20 years did affect their Limited Overs cricket temperament. That is why some chokes happened.
But in Test arena they have been the best team in 21st Century (all round).

The Saffer team during apartheid had no culture of competitive limited overs cricket

 

[todfod 11]

As they won everything after that...

 

[The All Rounder]

I do not agree, The South Africa Cricket team of late 1960's and early 1970's was composed of different DNA. They were simply superb. Obviously a gap of 20 years did affect their Limited Overs cricket temperament. That is why some chokes happened.
But in Test arena they have been the best team in 21st Century (all round).

Well I do agree that Proteas continued to produce excellent limited overs cricketers during the ban, actually England's 1992 world cup squad had several players with South African/Zimbabwean roots, but you also can not ignore that West Indies and their pace battery from mid 1970's to late 1980's was too good for anyone.
At best shot Proteas might have played in 1975 or 1979 world cup final, but winning it hmmm well it is a stretch too far.

 

[karthikc]

Well I do agree that Proteas continued to produce excellent limited overs cricketers during the ban, actually England's 1992 world cup squad had several players with South African/Zimbabwean roots, but you also can not ignore that West Indies and their pace battery from mid 1970's to late 1980's was too good for anyone.
At best shot Proteas might have played in 1975 or 1979 world cup final, but winning it hmmm well it is a stretch too far.

Didn't a second string West Indies team having Sylvester Clarke completely destroy the South Africans when the main team headed for World Series cricket??

 

[MMHS]

Was the Champion's Trophy 2017, competitive without the once best team in ODI history - West Indies?

On a serious note - yeas, that SAF team would have been by far the best team of 1975 WC, as they had some of the best ever List A players (in Counties), at their prime.

BA Richrads was 28-29, GR Pollock 32-33, DT Lindsey 32-33, MJ Proctor 29, Clive Rice 23-24, Jimmy Cock, 22-23, Ken Mckwen 25-26, Garth Le Roux 25-26, VV Bijl 23-24, Edddi Barlow 34-35, Peter Pollock 35-36 ......... and I am sure I am missing few (Fotheringham comes to mind).

Also, we should remember that AW (Tony) Greig was 28-29, Allen Lamb 21-22, Chris Smith 25-26, Robin Jackman 29-30 ........ actually played for Poms, because of isolation; otherwise they would have played for SAF. Tony leading this side instead of Poms - it's a frightening squad.

 

[The All Rounder]

Didn't a second string West Indies team having Sylvester Clarke completely destroy the South Africans when the main team headed for World Series cricket??

You are sadly mistaken, You are talking about a Rebel tour to South Africa by 2nd string West Indies in 1982-83.

By that time their golden generation of late 1960's Mike Procter, Barry Richards etc were all retired. I think OP is specifically talking about 1975/79 world cups, as that would have been the peak of that Golden Generation Proteas team.

 

[The All Rounder]

Was the Champion's Trophy 2017, competitive without the once best team in ODI history - West Indies?

On a serious note - yeas, that SAF team would have been by far the best team of 1975 WC, as they had some of the best ever List A players (in Counties), at their prime.

BA Richrads was 28-29, GR Pollock 32-33, DT Lindsey 32-33, MJ Proctor 29, Clive Rice 23-24, Jimmy Cock, 22-23, Ken Mckwen 25-26, Garth Le Roux 25-26, VV Bijl 23-24, Edddi Barlow 34-35, Peter Pollock 35-36 ......... and I am sure I am missing few (Fotheringham comes to mind).

Also, we should remember that AW (Tony) Greig was 28-29, Allen Lamb 21-22, Chris Smith 25-26, Robin Jackman 29-30 ........ actually played for Poms, because of isolation; otherwise they would have played for SAF. Tony leading this side instead of Poms - it's a frightening squad.

Absolutely correct.

 

[MMHS]

Didn't a second string West Indies team having Sylvester Clarke completely destroy the South Africans when the main team headed for World Series cricket??

That was in 1981-82, when after 10-12 years of isolation, there was a generation gap and few SAF top players opted to represent ENG/AUS. It was good 6-7 years later from 1975 and you can see the difference from my other post.

But, WI of 1979 was the most frightening ODI side ever - won't have mattered much.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Pakistan faced South Africa in the league and lost. Then South Africa were robbed of the final spot by the stupid DL method.

This implies, SA would have beaten Pak in final and Pak cannot be considered true winners of the cup.

On the other hand if you say Pakistan would have beaten Saffers in the finals, then this would imply that South Africa are perrenial chokers and thus cannot be considered competitive as they cannot win a world cup.

What is the point of this thread?

 

[Sarwar89]

Was the Champion's Trophy 2017, competitive without the once best team in ODI history - West Indies?

On a serious note - yeas, that SAF team would have been by far the best team of 1975 WC, as they had some of the best ever List A players (in Counties), at their prime.

BA Richrads was 28-29, GR Pollock 32-33, DT Lindsey 32-33, MJ Proctor 29, Clive Rice 23-24, Jimmy Cock, 22-23, Ken Mckwen 25-26, Garth Le Roux 25-26, VV Bijl 23-24, Edddi Barlow 34-35, Peter Pollock 35-36 ......... and I am sure I am missing few (Fotheringham comes to mind).

Also, we should remember that AW (Tony) Greig was 28-29, Allen Lamb 21-22, Chris Smith 25-26, Robin Jackman 29-30 ........ actually played for Poms, because of isolation; otherwise they would have played for SAF. Tony leading this side instead of Poms - it's a frightening squad.

Sir there is a difference, You just mentioned that ICC Champions Trophy 2017, West Indies did not participate. Well they wanted to participate but they failed for qualify.
There is a difference when the best team is banned vs a team which fails to qualify peace.

 

[The All Rounder]

On a lighter note, on whom South Africans shall put all the blame for not winning the World Cup, Rain or Basil D Oliveira. I will go for latter.

 

[The All Rounder]

Pakistan faced South Africa in the league and lost. Then South Africa were robbed of the final spot by the stupid DL method.

This implies, SA would have beaten Pak in final and Pak cannot be considered true winners of the cup.

On the other hand if you say Pakistan would have beaten Saffers in the finals, then this would imply that South Africa are perrenial chokers and thus cannot be considered competitive as they cannot win a world cup.

What is the point of this thread?

Pakistan was actually robbed by D/L method in that world cup match against South Africa.
Pakistan restricted them to only 211 and were comfortably 74/2 in 20 overs when rain arrived.

Had rain not come Pakistan would have easily beaten Proteas.

 

[karthikc]

You are sadly mistaken, You are talking about a Rebel tour to South Africa by 2nd string West Indies in 1982-83.

By that time their golden generation of late 1960's Mike Procter, Barry Richards etc were all retired. I think OP is specifically talking about 1975/79 world cups, as that would have been the peak of that Golden Generation Proteas team.

Ya ..My bad..1975 world cup..yes u can say south africa was missed..1979?..not very sure..west indies were invincible

 

[Oligochaetes]

Pakistan was actually robbed by D/L method in that world cup match against South Africa.
Pakistan restricted them to only 211 and were comfortably 74/2 in 20 overs when rain arrived.

Had rain not come Pakistan would have easily beaten Proteas.

If Pakistan can easily beat Saffers, how were they competitive? Even West Indies were no longer a world dominating side, then how was this more competitive that previous World Cups?

Pakistan were all out out for 74 against England and rain saved them or else they wouldnt have been in Semis. So does Pakistan not deserve the Wc?

There are a gazillion ifs and buts in every game and tournament.

Please give credit to each and every team which has won the prestigious World Cup tournaments. There is luck and skill involved in every game.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Post 1992 world cups were also not competitive as West Indies were no longer a force and started getting beaten by the likes of Kenya.

 

[Napa]

There is no hiding from the fact that 1992 is Generally considered the 1st Cricket World Cup to be fully competitive. Because it featured the best 9 participating teams.

By the Time Ban was imposed on Apartheid South African Cricket team in 1970-71, it was arguably the best cricket team around, they thrashed the Aussies 4-0 in Test series just before the ban.

With the likes of Graheme Pollock, Barry Richards, Mike Procter, Clive Rice, Peter Pollock and Ali Bacher were denied 1975 world cup appearance. I for one do not believe that West Indies and Australia would have contested 1975 Final, if South Africa were participating.

What legitimacy these 4 world cups have ? Yes we can say In Football world cups sometimes best teams do not qualify but they fail to qualify in world cup qualifiers. In South African case, the ban was imposed.

At this stage South Africa has not won a Cricket world cup, I firmly believe they would have won the 1975 world cup. Barry Richards scored a Test 300 in a single day at shield cricket in 1970's. Shall we say West Indies of 75/79 were lucky.

Imran Khan can at-least claim that he won the world cup when South Africa did participate.

You are right, all WCs in which SA did not participate were non-competitive because everybody knows that since SA started participating they won every WC

 

[English August]

Imran Khan can at-least claim that he won the world cup when South Africa did participate.

Imran Khan can also say with pride that in the WC he won by fluke, his team was soundly beaten by the arch-enemies India. He started a trend that his chelas have continued to this date: they all lose to India in every WC. Now even the U-19s have drawn inspiration from him and have started losing to India.

What a trendsetter!!!!

 

[karthikc]

Imran Khan can also say with pride that in the WC he won by fluke, his team was soundly beaten by the arch-enemies India. He started a trend that his chelas have continued to this date: they all lose to India in every WC. Now even the U-19s have drawn inspiration from him and have started losing to India.

What a trendsetter!!!!

Sir it is wrong to say that..

It was not by fluke that they beat the strongest team in group stage New Zealand twice to enter the finals..

It is not his fault that the administrators in PCB didnt plan things for the future..Imran left behind a good team...like someone said ideally Javed should have been made captain and transitioned things to the next captain..but the politics....literally we saw everyone in the playing X1 getting to be captains..

 

[soso_killer]

SA would have dominated the 70's, maybe the tide would have changed post 75 as that's when the Windies quartet emerged.

But make no mistake, they rightly didn't participate in any form of international cricket.

 

[Convict]

SA would have dominated the 70's, maybe the tide would have changed post 75 as that's when the Windies quartet emerged.

But make no mistake, they rightly didn't participate in any form of international cricket.

Exactly.

From a cricketing perspective it is a pity but South Africa's participation would have disgraced those cups.

 

[Sarwar89]

SA would have dominated the 70's, maybe the tide would have changed post 75 as that's when the Windies quartet emerged.

But make no mistake, they rightly didn't participate in any form of international cricket.

well rebel tours did take place, but they were unofficial.

https://youtu.be/946iJJLdiSE

have a look at the vintage footage of Australian Rebel team playing against South Africa in 1987.

I was amazed to see a young 21 year old Alan Donald in it along with Current ICC Chairman Dave Richardson, plus young tall Brian McMillan and Peter Kirsten (Gary Kirsten bro) and 43 year old Graeme Pollock also played along with Le Roux and Jimmy Cook.

Port Elizabeth was sold out and all crowd was white, but their love of the game was admirable.

 

[The All Rounder]

well rebel tours did take place, but they were unofficial.

https://youtu.be/946iJJLdiSE

have a look at the vintage footage of Australian Rebel team playing against South Africa in 1987.

I was amazed to see a young 21 year old Alan Donald in it along with Current ICC Chairman Dave Richardson, plus young tall Brian McMillan and Peter Kirsten (Gary Kirsten bro) and 43 year old Graeme Pollock also played along with Le Roux and Jimmy Cook.

Port Elizabeth was sold out and all crowd was white, but their love of the game was admirable.

Alan Donald was so young and fast, unbelievable video. I think half of that squad made it to the 92 world cup. Ironically in Aus Rebel side Mike Haymen and Kepler Wessles are playing.