Critique my piece: Is ISIS Islamic? ISIS Disagrees

[PennOne]

https://medium.com/@hasanahmad/isis-is-islamic-islam-disagrees-3affcaae58ea#.7m2lm2bit


This is a bit long but please critique

 

[Black Zero]

yes, its too long...and even argument presented in long paragraphs...
if you could provide the summary or abstract that would help...

As religious books are subjective so its hard to refute any religious claim objectively...
I consider both ISIS and Ahmadis muslim...

 

[Slog]

Wil give a read and write a response tomorrow

 

[Slog]

On first glance (havent read it, just saw structure), it looks well structured and thought out.


However I would say that do not refer to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's pieces or opinions as supporting evidence. Unless you want it to be a piece from an Ahmadi Islamic perspective, other Muslims will not accept it and neither should any source apart from Sahih Ahadeeth or the Quran be used. I dont know how crucial it is to your argument but for mainstream acceptance, anything apart from Ahadeeth or Quran is definitely not advisable.

 

[PennOne]

On first glance (havent read it, just saw structure), it looks well structured and thought out.


However I would say that do not refer to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's pieces or opinions as supporting evidence. Unless you want it to be a piece from an Ahmadi Islamic perspective, other Muslims will not accept it and neither should any source apart from Sahih Ahadeeth or the Quran be used. I dont know how crucial it is to your argument but for mainstream acceptance, anything apart from Ahadeeth or Quran is definitely not advisable.

just read all of it as most is heavily Quran centric with supporting Hadith

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

https://medium.com/@hasanahmad/isis-is-islamic-islam-disagrees-3affcaae58ea#.7m2lm2bit


This is a bit long but please critique

Brother Hassan it's excellent MashaAllah but only address a single topic. Your writing skills are good.

Like many of Us see you soon writing for Huffington Post, Guardian etc you will be a great entry to this group. A little refinement and you will be there.


Hopefully ISIS ends soon but incase you right an article or blog on them than don't miss this Hadith.


Kitaab Al Fitan reported by Caliph Ali RA, the fourth successor to Prophet Muhammad, describes these people as having long hair and bearing black flags. Their “hearts will be hard as iron,” and they would be the companions of a State (Ashab ul Dawla).


Interestingly, ISIS refers to itself as the Islamic State or Dawla.

The tradition further mentions that they will break their covenants, not speak the truth and have names that mention their cities. The ISIS caliph, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, comes to mind.


True Prophets Prophecies are fulfilled only.This is Allah's methodology by which he seperates Imposters from his beloved true Prophets.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

[MENTION=42489]Black Zero[/MENTION]

Brother since you are online.

What is behind fulfillment of Prophet's Prophecies ?


Dawkin's CHANCE or George Carlin's CHANCE


Note : Sorry I am obsessed with Dawkin's and Carlin's after reading and watching them

 

[Black Zero]

[MENTION=42489]Black Zero[/MENTION]

Brother since you are online.

What is behind fulfillment of Prophet's Prophecies ?


Dawkin's CHANCE or George Carlin's CHANCE


Note : Sorry I am obsessed with Dawkin's and Carlin's after reading and watching them

Brother TSPK, regarding prophecies or anything similar experiences, I have a critical view.

90%+ prophecies in Torah, are written after the fact or written/proven wrong.
Regarding Muhammad's spiritual poweress, meccan really begged him to demonstrate miracles etc, but he said that's not his job.
Though history mentioned few incidents, couple regarding lost she camel, one regarding Romans, etc. However, I can give ten incidents for each "correct" prophecy where it is clear he had no clue about future.

I have a friend, who has become a suffi (and worried about my afterlife ), tells me really strange things (kind of miracles ) and my answer to him is that give me the winning number of incoming lottery, and if I win, I will donate 100% plus I will donate a considerable amount from my pocket. And this task is much more easier than his miracles. But I have not got the number yet.

Forget prophecies, if you read the book "the torn veil" by Gulshan Esther (she is originally, from jhang pakistan ), she claimed to make few dead people alive. What can I say about it.

Regarding Richard Dawkin's, he is not a scholar anymore, he has made a career out of anti religion stance. He is a media man and I do not have any respect for him. Interestingly, your Khalifa wrote a book (1000+pages) few years back in response to Richard's the blind watchmaker.
I had a very good ahmdi friend in Toronto, he gave me that book and I read it all (even though he had not read it himself).. Frankly, I was not impressed by the contents.

George Carlin, he was comedian's comedian. I love him, but he was also not scholar..


PS: Time pass has become liberal lately as moderators of PP, allow such discussions without much censorship, which I highly appreciate and enjoy, but still, imo, is not the right place to discuss sensitive topics. Think, how touchy posters are about their favourite cricket player, and here we are talking about religious personalities.

So I try to be careful and practice self censorship as though I am anti-religion, but I do not want to hurt anyone feeling.

During my own journey, I have observed that it's not the lack of information, but lack 9 courage, that keep us from accepting the truth.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Brother TSPK, regarding prophecies or anything similar experiences, I have a critical view.

90%+ prophecies in Torah, are written after the fact or written/proven wrong.
Regarding Muhammad's spiritual poweress, meccan really begged him to demonstrate miracles etc, but he said that's not his job.
Though history mentioned few incidents, couple regarding lost she camel, one regarding Romans, etc. However, I can give ten incidents for each "correct" prophecy where it is clear he had no clue about future.

I have a friend, who has become a suffi (and worried about my afterlife ), tells me really strange things (kind of miracles ) and my answer to him is that give me the winning number of incoming lottery, and if I win, I will donate 100% plus I will donate a considerable amount from my pocket. And this task is much more easier than his miracles. But I have not got the number yet.

Forget prophecies, if you read the book "the torn veil" by Gulshan Esther (she is originally, from jhang pakistan ), she claimed to make few dead people alive. What can I say about it.

Regarding Richard Dawkin's, he is not a scholar anymore, he has made a career out of anti religion stance. He is a media man and I do not have any respect for him. Interestingly, your Khalifa wrote a book (1000+pages) few years back in response to Richard's the blind watchmaker.
I had a very good ahmdi friend in Toronto, he gave me that book and I read it all (even though he had not read it himself).. Frankly, I was not impressed by the contents.

George Carlin, he was comedian's comedian. I love him, but he was also not scholar..


PS: Time pass has become liberal lately as moderators of PP, allow such discussions without much censorship, which I highly appreciate and enjoy, but still, imo, is not the right place to discuss sensitive topics. Think, how touchy posters are about their favourite cricket player, and here we are talking about religious personalities.

So I try to be careful and practice self censorship as though I am anti-religion, but I do not want to hurt anyone feeling.

During my own journey, I have observed that it's not the lack of information, but lack 9 courage, that keep us from accepting the truth.

Maulana Sahib! (Pyaar se kaha hai)
Baat kuch horai hoti hai aor aap kahan se kahan chalay jaatay hein.


We are talking about Prophecies not Miracles


Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was not a Jaadugar Magician to show you Magic.


Even in real world Magician's aen't what you read in fairytales. Magicians work by Hypnotism & Mesmerism etc etc


Prophet Muhammad Pbuh never said I am a Jaadugar. Neither the role of Prophets is to do Jaado Tonay.

Ye Prophets koi Circus k Artist nai hotay.


Talk precisely about Prophecies.


Remember, there are laws of Physics and laws of Nature. This Universe is operating under a System, an organised system.

Kisi Meccan ki khoahiah pe Allah Taala ne Zameen o Aasmaan ka nizaam tabah o barbaad nai ker dena tha Laws of nature break ker k


Spiritual miracle yei kaafi tha k wo Azeem Insaan e Kaamil Allah k fazal se wo Rohaani inqalaab laaya k wo kehtay hein k Allah ne ye verse naazil ki k aaj se Sharaab haraam tou Sahaba RA ne Sharaab k matkay baha diye aor gaaleeoun mein Sharaab paani ki tarah beh rai thee[/B]


Aor bhee kaee sou misaalein hein Rohaani inqalaab ki.


Prophecies k mutaabiq Khilafat khatam hui k nai hui ? Malookiat aaee k nai aaee ? Mujadadeed aaee k nai aaee ?


And if you say all is man made and all books are written by people after the events took place than come into 19th century. What happened with Pandatt Lekh Raam what happened with Alexander Dowee ?

How a worldly uneducated man Prophesised about a 3rd epidemic spread of disease of Plague and 3rd plague Pandemic spread 500 years as per exact Prophecy ?


There are two Signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely, the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramazan (i.e. on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day (i.e.; on the middle one of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur), and these Signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth."
( Sunan Darqutni, kitabul eidain, chapter: salat-ul-kasoof-ul khasoof wa haitahuma)


The above is Prophet Muhammad Pbuh's Prophecy 1500 years ago and only once it has happened as per Scoence. Only once in the month of Ramazan that both Solar & Lunar Eclipses took place.


Now the fulfilment of this Prophecy in letter and spirit proves the Truthfulness of not just Mohammad Pbuh but Allah aswell. Because the Prophet Pbuh said Allah told me this. And when exactly the same thing happened than what was the force which caused it ? ALLAH.


Prophecy is fortelling and whenever Prophets foretell something they always say Allah told me this.

Now Hazrat Ali RA told that Prophet Mohammad said that this fitna will happen in later days. And exactly precisely the Hadith was proved true by the Fitna ISIS so much so that even terrorist associated word Baghdaadi with his Name.



Lastly the number you quoted 18/19 is not true. This is words of Opponents not word of history. If you want details covering these allegations than read a Book online only relevent pages wrt Marriages " Seal of Prophets " by Bashir Ahmad MA. I know you will even raise question about Hazrat Maria Qibtiyya RA those accusation will be answered aswell.

Only Hazrat Ayesha RA was the one and only who wasn't married previously. This clearly refutes all the rubbish which is assoviated with the best of the best Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh.

 

[Black Zero]

Maulana Sahib! (Pyaar se kaha hai)
Baat kuch horai hoti hai aor aap kahan se kahan chalay jaatay hein.


We are talking about Prophecies not Miracles


Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was not a Jaadugar Magician to show you Magic.


Even in real world Magician's aen't what you read in fairytales. Magicians work by Hypnotism & Mesmerism etc etc


Prophet Muhammad Pbuh never said I am a Jaadugar. Neither the role of Prophets is to do Jaado Tonay.

Ye Prophets koi Circus k Artist nai hotay.


Talk precisely about Prophecies.


Remember, there are laws of Physics and laws of Nature. This Universe is operating under a System, an organised system.

Kisi Meccan ki khoahiah pe Allah Taala ne Zameen o Aasmaan ka nizaam tabah o barbaad nai ker dena tha Laws of nature break ker k


Spiritual miracle yei kaafi tha k wo Azeem Insaan e Kaamil Allah k fazal se wo Rohaani inqalaab laaya k wo kehtay hein k Allah ne ye verse naazil ki k aaj se Sharaab haraam tou Sahaba RA ne Sharaab k matkay baha diye aor gaaleeoun mein Sharaab paani ki tarah beh rai thee[/B]


Aor bhee kaee sou misaalein hein Rohaani inqalaab ki.


Prophecies k mutaabiq Khilafat khatam hui k nai hui ? Malookiat aaee k nai aaee ? Mujadadeed aaee k nai aaee ?


And if you say all is man made and all books are written by people after the events took place than come into 19th century. What happened with Pandatt Lekh Raam what happened with Alexander Dowee ?

How a worldly uneducated man Prophesised about a 3rd epidemic spread of disease of Plague and 3rd plague Pandemic spread 500 years as per exact Prophecy ?


There are two Signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely, the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramazan (i.e. on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day (i.e.; on the middle one of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur), and these Signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth."
( Sunan Darqutni, kitabul eidain, chapter: salat-ul-kasoof-ul khasoof wa haitahuma)


The above is Prophet Muhammad Pbuh's Prophecy 1500 years ago and only once it has happened as per Scoence. Only once in the month of Ramazan that both Solar & Lunar Eclipses took place.


Now the fulfilment of this Prophecy in letter and spirit proves the Truthfulness of not just Mohammad Pbuh but Allah aswell. Because the Prophet Pbuh said Allah told me this. And when exactly the same thing happened than what was the force which caused it ? ALLAH.


Prophecy is fortelling and whenever Prophets foretell something they always say Allah told me this.

Now Hazrat Ali RA told that Prophet Mohammad said that this fitna will happen in later days. And exactly precisely the Hadith was proved true by the Fitna ISIS so much so that even terrorist associated word Baghdaadi with his Name.



Lastly the number you quoted 18/19 is not true. This is words of Opponents not word of history. If you want details covering these allegations than read a Book online only relevent pages wrt Marriages " Seal of Prophets " by Bashir Ahmad MA. I know you will even raise question about Hazrat Maria Qibtiyya RA those accusation will be answered aswell.

Only Hazrat Ayesha RA was the one and only who wasn't married previously. This clearly refutes all the rubbish which is assoviated with the best of the best Mohammad Mustafa Pbuh.

I'll answer briefly, i put prophecy and miracles and similar things in one bucket of un-natural events. If we start making various categories of these un natural or inexplicable events/experiences then we will end up so many pointless categories which adds no value to move the discussion forward.

You can read book 2 of tabri and count yourself about number of wives.

As I do not have any agenda so I do not find any reason not to trust tabri, ibn e Hisham, ibn e Saad on this matter.

Again my objective is to be respectful to posters without hurting their feelings but it's not an easy task.
I can show (and any neutral person would agree) 100+ mistakes in Quran only... but what's the use?

Forgive me for my snap assessment, you are a believer, you are not a truth seeker, you are just looking for the validation of your beliefs and maybe getting some sort of pleasure from this debate, just like we do get from discussing in cricket forum. You simply deny the facts, which does not fit your beliefs. This is typical response of a believer.

It takes lot of courage to find the truth, and no guru, Khalifa or book can provide you the courage. I was believer for 30 years and I used to answer hard questions apologetically just like you do and always blame the historians, molives, sheikhs etc. for the bad reputation.

But eventually, I decided to show courage that I would not filter facts based on my pre set beliefs and let facts only take me to the conclusion.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I'll answer briefly, i put prophecy and miracles and similar things in one bucket of un-natural events. If we start making various categories of these un natural or inexplicable events/experiences then we will end up so many pointless categories which adds no value to move the discussion forward.

You can read book 2 of tabri and count yourself about number of wives.

As I do not have any agenda so I do not find any reason not to trust tabri, ibn e Hisham, ibn e Saad on this matter.

Again my objective is to be respectful to posters without hurting their feelings but it's not an easy task.
I can show (and any neutral person would agree) 100+ mistakes in Quran only... but what's the use?

Forgive me for my snap assessment, you are a believer, you are not a truth seeker, you are just looking for the validation of your beliefs and maybe getting some sort of pleasure from this debate, just like we do get from discussing in cricket forum. You simply deny the facts, which does not fit your beliefs. This is typical response of a believer.

It takes lot of courage to find the truth, and no guru, Khalifa or book can provide you the courage. I was believer for 30 years and I used to answer hard questions apologetically just like you do and always blame the historians, molives, sheikhs etc. for the bad reputation.

But eventually, I decided to show courage that I would not filter facts based on my pre set beliefs and let facts only take me to the conclusion.

There is alot debatable in your post. Alot.

Time constraints. So some other day.


I had read very very less about the faith I was born in for 12 years of my Schooling and College. I had read all I was taught and I believed on all. I scored A+.

I was a kid.


I than read plenty of stuff from left, right. I read what fierce critics of Islam, Prophet Pbuh read. I read seerat books from many different sources and I read the own stuff of which I wasn't aware. I am in my 20's now.


This is how I weighed up all stuff.


You seem to have missed many of my posts where I and tonmoy/tomnoy deliberated.



Here at PP I have seen dozens who know nothing about a person and they assume things. Aor har banda mind reading ka maahir bana hua hai

Kheir I don't mind.


I am not stopping you or anyone else to stop reading stuff. But Adulterations is a fact of History. Only divine force takes it's action and cleanses purifies his message again through his new appointment.


I will take Tabri in the same basket as like those Christian Mullah's yes Mullah's after all mullah's are mullah's be they historian mullah's or the clergy, who devised a concept of Trinity which never existed.


1500 saal berha lamba arsa hota hai. Mufaadparast toloun ne har dourr mein angle diye hein zaati mafaad ki khaatir.


Kheir aapki 20 linoun se mujhay ittefaaq nai. Kahan aap ne prophecies, miracles ko aik he tokri ki zeenat bana diya hai.


Meray paas bhee alternate na pohancha hota tou unn fasaanoun qissay kahanioun, laws of nature ka hazaar dafa tootna qissoun fasanoun ko sacha saabit kerne, aor pata nai kya kya mera b yei haal hota. So meray liye hargiz surprising nai hai.


Aor ye sub Shuru he hota hai Khuda k baad. Agar Khuda he nai tou sub Amaartein ye mazhab ki raitt k mehaloun ki tarah zameen bouss hojati munhadimm hojaati hein. So 3 se le k 20 takk jo rozana ka mujaheda kiya kisi k kehne pe k islam ye kehta wo kehta so ye kero ye na kero tou rozana ki accountability duties ki, check n balance tou 17 saal ki investment thee to finally get to my LORD and eventually experience HIM. Agar ye na hota tou kisi k kehne pe mazeed meinay aik aana kuch nai kerna tha, na meray galay pe churri thee na kanpatti pe pastol k kero werna marro, phir na mein kisi kitaab ko ilahi kitaab maanta na kisi hasti ko muqaddass maanta na namaz roza rakhta na he koi aor baat maanta jo mazab kehta balkay mein Uss Khuda ka he inkaari ho jaata jis k mutaliq sunna tha perha tha.

Because when you get mature enough, you have fulfilled majority onligations than HE has to eventually SHOW UP in order for you to belief in His practical existence and than keep following his commandments otherwise you ll bhaarh mein jaaey so hai he nai. Truck ki batti k peechay lagaya hua hai.

Mousoof 5 saal Medical science perhne k baad damaagh ki batti chal jaati hai average damaagh se insaan ka intellect zara ooper ho tou. Yout cognition gets Aazaad now. Agar ab Line na milli tou ab dusra raasta he aakhri resort hota hai.


Shukarr hai k mujahay ka Phall milla jo hard yards kiye wo asar dikha gaey. Alhamdoulillah.


Werna Ye Sciencedaan aapki kashti ka musaafir hota.


Busy with my research project from now on and your 20 lines deserve 20 long posts so some other day permitting Bulawaa na aajaey Khaaliq ki taraf se.


I hope you don't retire before Shoaib Malik's retirement from all forms of Cricket


Waa-Aakhirudd Dawaana Annil Hamdou lillah e Rabbil Aalameen.

 

[Black Zero]

@ talestspotterpk,
Oh goog to know that you changed your old religion and accepted islam after deep and thorough research. Which proves that you are a very open minded and ready to change your mind when facts demand for it.

And not like some irrelational, close minded person, who most likely die with same beliefs, which he hold from his childhood or got inherited from parents.



Sorry, I have not read what you wrote in urdu with English alphabets, but I am assuming that would also be something nice.