Current ATGs we are lucky to be witnessing

[Square Drive]

Well there are quite a few ATGs we are watching live these days.

Steve Smith
Virat Kohli
Joe Root
Dale Steyn

^ These four are not even debatable at this point and I'm sure almost everyone agrees that these guys will go down as ATGs.

Who else would you guys label as ATGs from the current lot?

Would like to see what posters think.

 

[Syed1]

You forgot Bradman of bowling ATG Ashwin

 

[Sachin136]

I don't see Root going down as an ATG in any format.

 

[Rayyman]

KW is already going to be the ATG batsman from NZ, so it is a matter of time before he goes on to be an ATG overall.

Boult will also go on to be an ATG imo.

I think that Yasir Shah and Azhar Ali will too.

 

[Mamoon]

Yasir is an average bowler. He is nowhere near great material, let alone ATG.

QdK is a surefire ATG in the making as well.

 

[Square Drive]

Yeah, Boult as well as Rabada may well be on their way.

I forgot Starc who should also get there.

Azhar and Yasir maybe only in Tests, but even that seems like a stretch.

Babar Azam, In Sha Allah.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Williamson > Root. Baby face is a softie.

 

[Square Drive]

Though I admire him, I'm not convinced KW is ATG material tbh.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Add Williamson and AB De Villiers too. Starc too (hopefully he has a long career with minimum injuries).

From Pakistan Babar Azam is potential odi ATG and Haris Sohail is potential test ATG.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Though I admire him, I'm not convinced KW is ATG material tbh.

Williamson plays in a very weak batting side especially in tests. Has played more impact innings than Kohli in test cricket (Kohli is already an Odi ATG thats why people overrate him in test cricket where he hasnt done anything special).
See Kane's 4th innings century against SA to draw the match. Or his 242 not out vs SL where NZ came from behind and won the match.

 

[mhraja]

Add Williamson and AB De Villiers too. Starc too (hopefully he has a long career with minimum injuries).

From Pakistan Babar Azam is potential odi ATG and Haris Sohail is potential test ATG.

Haris Soail has played any Test?

Doesn't seems like playing anytime soon.

 

[Square Drive]

Add Williamson and AB De Villiers too. Starc too (hopefully he has a long career with minimum injuries).

From Pakistan Babar Azam is potential odi ATG and Haris Sohail is potential test ATG.

Williamson plays in a very weak batting side especially in tests. Has played more impact innings than Kohli in test cricket (Kohli is already an Odi ATG thats why people overrate him in test cricket where he hasnt done anything special).
See Kane's 4th innings century against SA to draw the match. Or his 242 not out vs SL where NZ came from behind and won the match.

AB for sure in ODIs.

Too late for Haris.

Yes Kane is amazing but I just get a feeling he'll have a bad run soon.

Hopefully not, and he goes on to become an ATG.

 

[Bilal7]

Kohli and Smith have done extremely well in ODIs and tests that they are probably future ATGs at this point, I agree. Not sure about Root. Hasn't played enough and hasn't had enough impact in those matches so no, he's not a given. From the bowlers of this generation, there are several with a lot of potential, namely Starc, Hazlewood, Rabada, Boult, Amir, Shami and Shah but none have played enough to make a solid claim.

The only bonafide ATGs currently playing are Amla, AB, Younis and Steyn. Four of only five ATG cricketers from the 2010 generation, along with the retired Sangakkara.

 

[Bilal7]

Babar, Rahul, de Kock, etc have comparatively done nothing in their careers. No need for knee-jerk reactions. If they were to retire tomorrow, they'd be unfulfilled talents like Asif and Bond, nothing else.

 

[javiersuka]

Lol, Amla and Younis are not ATG"s. If YK is ATG, then even Alistair Cook is ATG.

Only Steyn is certified ATG at this stage and AB will reach there at the time he retires.

Quinton De Kock and Rabada are in the process of becoming ATG.

So are Steven Smith and Starc, I think even Warner can achieve it if he stays for another 7-8 years.

Williamson is another one.

Nobody from Pakistan, Amir is overhyped.

Kohli from India.

Root has a Slim chance of getting there, that's all I can think for now.

 

[Bilal7]

English cricketers almost never sustain their good performances over a period of time. Whether it's Botham, Strauss, Bell, KP, Swann, Trott or even Cook. So Root has to defy some serious expectations.

 

[Mamoon]

Amla is no ATG. A short peak in Tests and a soft LOI career. Same goes for de Villiers, a soft Test career and hasn't had any impact in LOI in terms of winning big matches due to his reasons that has been discussed to death. Apart from Steyn, the only other current SA cricketer who is ATG material is QdK. He has the talent and skill to surpass Gilchrist.

Less said about UAE Khan the better.

 

[Hasan123]

QDK and Josh Hazlewood are future atgs for me as well.

 

[Rayyman]

Rohit in ODIs
Jadeja in Tests
Dhoni in ODIs
Hales in LOIs
Stokes and Woakes in all formats
K. Brathwaite in Tests
Holder in all formats
Narine, Russell, Pollard and Gayle in T20s
Guptill in LOIs
Mathews in all formats
Shakib in all formats
Sarfraz in all formats
Hasan Ali in LOIs

 

[Ellipsism]

QDK, Starc-(I rate him a better ODI bowler than Wasim), Kohli and Hazlewood.

 

[Hasan123]

Some players who I think are future atgs or have potential to be atgs

Kohli
Smith
Root
Rabada
Starc
Hazlewood
Ashwin
QDK
Stokes

 

[Bilal7]

Amla has played over 100 tests and a 4.5 year period where he was averaging nearly 70 with runs everywhere and match-winning centuries in every series is hardly a short peak. He's a legendary test batsman who averages 50 in South Africa, 70+ in England, 70+ in the UAE, 60+ in India and has match-winning/series-winning innings in Australia and Sri Lanka, along with good overall records in thos countries. His recent slump notwithstanding, he's right up there with the very best in tests.

His ODI record is nowhere as spotless and more of a cherry on top of a cake but averaging 50+ at a SR of 90 with 24 centuries, 22 coming in wins, and also being ranked #1 in the world for a period of three years makes him nothing less than a great ODI opener.

AB is the second best ODI batsman of all time and a great test batsman, on level with the likes of Mahela, Yousuf and Laxman in tests. He's a bonafide great and his popularity among the masses far exceeds that of any contemporary cricketer. Was ranked #1 in both tests and ODIs, same with Amla, both of whom also have peak ratings of 900+ in both tests and ODIs. That is superb stuff, Tendulker for example, never hit 900 points on the ICC rankings.

Younis Khan's numbers speak for himself. 10,000 runs, 30+ centuries, 50+ averages in Australia, England and India, balanced records everywhere else. A poor ODI batsman but overall definitely as great as the likes of Dravid and Sanga in the test format.

 

[Bilal7]

SubhanAllah, we have 20 ATGs playing in this era. No wonder the standard of cricket is so amazing and one sided matches and series are so rare.

:

 

[leatherface58]

Kohli, Smith, Rabada, Starc, Ashwin are my picks for future ATGs.

 

[Square Drive]

Rohit in ODIs
Jadeja in Tests
Dhoni in ODIs
Hales in LOIs
Stokes and Woakes in all formats
K. Brathwaite in Tests
Holder in all formats
Narine, Russell, Pollard and Gayle in T20s
Guptill in LOIs
Mathews in all formats
Shakib in all formats
Sarfraz in all formats
Hasan Ali in LOIs

Hales, Holder, Brathwaite, Sarfraz?

Iss tarha toh mera neighbour bhi ATG hua

 

[Ellipsism]

Rohit in ODIs
Jadeja in Tests
Dhoni in ODIs
Hales in LOIs
Stokes and Woakes in all formats
K. Brathwaite in Tests
Holder in all formats
Narine, Russell, Pollard and Gayle in T20s
Guptill in LOIs
Mathews in all formats
Shakib in all formats
Sarfraz in all formats
Hasan Ali in LOIs

You come across as a guy with not much cricketing knowledge...

 

[Ab Fan]

Rohit in ODIs
Jadeja in Tests
Dhoni in ODIs
Hales in LOIs
Stokes and Woakes in all formats
K. Brathwaite in Tests
Holder in all formats
Narine, Russell, Pollard and Gayle in T20s
Guptill in LOIs
Mathews in all formats
Shakib in all formats
Sarfraz in all formats
Hasan Ali in LOIs

LMAO! Holder an ATG??He is arguably the third or fourth best bowler in the current WI side.

 

[Rayyman]

Hales, Holder, Brathwaite, Sarfraz?

Iss tarha toh mera neighbour bhi ATG hua

The same Hales who scored the England record 171 in ODI. He has just entered his peak. Expect him to go bananas from now on. Ala Guptill.

Holder will have ATG level stats because of longevity. 400+ wickets in ODIs and 300+ in Tests. 5000+ runs in both as well.

Brathwaite is only 22 and already has a double hundred. Has centuries against ATG Ashwin and Jadeja also against Yasir in UAE. He will score 10,000 in Tests, no doubt.

Imo Sarfraz will score 7000+ in both formats and captain Pakistan to higher rankings and memorable series victories.

 

[Ellipsism]

The same Hales who scored the England record 171 in ODI. He has just entered his peak. Expect him to go bananas from now on. Ala Guptill.

Holder will have ATG level stats because of longevity. 400+ wickets in ODIs and 300+ in Tests. 5000+ runs in both as well.

Brathwaite is only 22 and already has a double hundred. Has centuries against ATG Ashwin and Jadeja also against Yasir in UAE. He will score 10,000 in Tests, no doubt.

Imo Sarfraz will score 7000+ in both formats and captain Pakistan to higher rankings and memorable series victories.

Holder isn't a good enough bowler to take wickets anywhere.

Braithwaite again isn't ATG material.

Sarfaraz is already 30 I don't see him playing much longer and again isn't ATG material.

Hales is a limited player and doesn't have the talent nor ability to be an English great let alone ATG.

 

[Bilal7]

The same Hales who scored the England record 171 in ODI. He has just entered his peak. Expect him to go bananas from now on. Ala Guptill.

Holder will have ATG level stats because of longevity. 400+ wickets in ODIs and 300+ in Tests. 5000+ runs in both as well.

Brathwaite is only 22 and already has a double hundred. Has centuries against ATG Ashwin and Jadeja also against Yasir in UAE. He will score 10,000 in Tests, no doubt.

Imo Sarfraz will score 7000+ in both formats and captain Pakistan to higher rankings and memorable series victories.

You realize you're saying that all these guys will be as good as the likes of Imran, Sachin, Lara, Marshall, Wasim, Kallis and Sobers, right?

Maybe two of the guys mentioned in that huge list have a realistic chance of becoming ATGs, no more.

 

[Rayyman]

Holder isn't a good enough bowler to take wickets anywhere.

Braithwaite again isn't ATG material.

Sarfaraz is already 30 I don't see him playing much longer and again isn't ATG material.

Hales is a limited player and doesn't have the talent nor ability to be an English great let alone ATG.

Holder took 5 wickets against Pak. on pancake Sharjah.

Brathwaite is tough to predict, but his technique and temperament are very good. Similar to Azhar, but has age on his side. Might even get a triple hundred.

Sarfraz is also a keeper I think you forgot.

They said the same thing about Warner that you're saying about Hales.

 

[Ellipsism]

Holder took 5 wickets against Pak. on pancake Sharjah.

Brathwaite is tough to predict, but his technique and temperament are very good. Similar to Azhar, but has age on his side. Might even get a triple hundred.

Sarfraz is also a keeper I think you forgot.

They said the same thing about Warner that you're saying about Hales.

And where is Warner today? Nothing more than a FTB.

Again this is were you have to apply your knowledge, since when is one performance a basis to day whether a player is ATG material? This is the same Holder who can't swing the ball, can't seam the ball and barely manages to bowl past 130 kph. He isn't even WI's best fast bowler and here you are lamenting him as an ATG.

Sarfaraz being a keeper just further reitterated my point, lol.

Again Braithwaite isn't going to become a WI's great let alone ATG.

 

[Chrish]

Mustafizur Rahman already is ATG for certain group

 

[Rayyman]

And where is Warner today? Nothing more than a FTB.

Again this is were you have to apply your knowledge, since when is one performance a basis to day whether a player is ATG material? This is the same Holder who can't swing the ball, can't seam the ball and barely manages to bowl past 130 kph. He isn't even WI's best fast bowler and here you are lamenting him as an ATG.

Sarfaraz being a keeper just further reitterated my point, lol.

Again Braithwaite isn't going to become a WI's great let alone ATG.

Barring Holder, you are not using facts to back up you're argument. Even then, your argument is flawed.

And Holder is an all-rounder btw.

 

[Ellipsism]

Barring Holder, you are not using facts to back up you're argument. Even then, your argument is flawed.

And Holder is an all-rounder btw.

Use your common sense buddy. WI is a country that has produced Hunte, Fredericks, Greenidge and Desmond Haynes in the opening category. Now, you ask anyone with some basic cricketing knowledge and they'll tell you that Braithwaite isn't even fit enough to tie the shoeleaces of the players I previously mentioned, he doesn't have the talent nor the capacity to be mentioned along with those names.

Sarfaraz is 30 years old Test batting average in the low 40's due to the bullying he did against weak attacks in 14/15.

Pakistan has just finished their series of away tours. Now you tell me how Sarfaraz fared?

Holder is inconsistent with bat and lacks a basic technique and if he is to become an ATG he would need to compete with the likes of Kallis, Sobers, Dev, Khan and Hadlee. You think Holder can do that?

England has produced Jack Hobbs, Len Hutton, Herbert Sutcliffe, Mike Brearley, Geoff Boycott, Graham Gooch, Mike Atherton, Michael Vaughan in the opening category. You think Hales can fit in there?

And you used facts to compile your list?

 

[Square Drive]

The same Hales who scored the England record 171 in ODI. He has just entered his peak. Expect him to go bananas from now on. Ala Guptill.

Holder will have ATG level stats because of longevity. 400+ wickets in ODIs and 300+ in Tests. 5000+ runs in both as well.

Brathwaite is only 22 and already has a double hundred. Has centuries against ATG Ashwin and Jadeja also against Yasir in UAE. He will score 10,000 in Tests, no doubt.

Imo Sarfraz will score 7000+ in both formats and captain Pakistan to higher rankings and memorable series victories.

While most points have been given their due responses by [MENTION=141390]Ellipsism[/MENTION], I would like to add that Hales is already 28 and he hasn't even hit 2,000 ODI runs yet.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Jos Buttler will end up as odi ATG.

 

[Square Drive]

Use your common sense buddy. WI is a country that has produced Hunte, Fredericks, Greenidge and Desmond Haynes in the opening category. Now, you ask anyone with some basic cricketing knowledge and they'll tell you that Braithwaite isn't even fit enough to tie the shoeleaces of the players I previously mentioned, he isn't doesn't have the talent nor capacity to surpass to be mentioned along with those names.

Sarfaraz is 30 years old Test batting average in the low 40's due to the bullying he did against weak attacks in 14/15.

Pakistan has just finished their series of away tours. Now you tell me how Sarfaraz fared?

Holder is inconsistent with bat and lacks a basic technique and if he is to become an ATG he would need to compete with the likes of Kallis, Sobers, Dev, Khan and Hadlee.

England has produced Jack Hobbs, Len Hutton, Herbert Sutcliffe, Mike Brearley, Geoff Boycott, Graham Gooch, Mike Atherton, Michael Vaughan in the opening category. You think Hales can fit in there?

And you used facts to compile your list?

As far as Sarfraz is concerned, he actually fared well (especially if you're into stats) in Australia, and just about managed to hold his own in England when you consider he's playing as a WK.

But yeah, for sure he isn't ATG material when you take into account his age. Maybe best Pakistani WK but that's it.

 

[Ellipsism]

As far as Sarfraz is concerned, he actually fared well (especially if you're into stats) in Australia, and just about managed to hold his own in England when you consider he's playing as a WK.

But yeah, for sure he isn't ATG material when you take into account his age. Maybe best Pakistani WK but that's it.

Sure, he fared decently. But is decent enough to be an ATG? Of course not.

I do think he has overtaken the likes of Latif and Moin Khan.

 

[Syed1]

There is no such thing as test ATG or ODI ATG. The very purpose of being an ATG is that you were far ahead of your peers in all formats of the game. Each of the actual ATGs on that list were monster players in both tests and ODIs (T20 weren't around)

This is why someone like YK will only be a Pakistani great and not an ATG because he was beyond bad in LOI.

 

[Syed1]

Sure, he fared decently. But is decent enough to be an ATG? Of course not.

I do think he has overtaken the likes of Latif and Moin Khan.

But you just said he inflated his average against weak attacks in 14/15. Atleast stay true to your word from one post to the next.

 

[Ellipsism]

But you just said he inflated his average against weak attacks in 14/15. Atleast stay true to your word from one post to the next.

Where have I gone wrong?

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

There is no such thing as test ATG or ODI ATG. The very purpose of being an ATG is that you were far ahead of your peers in all formats of the game. Each of the actual ATGs on that list were monster players in both tests and ODIs (T20 weren't around)

This is why someone like YK will only be a Pakistani great and not an ATG because he was beyond bad in LOI.

yep right. Bevan was world class in odis but never rated as ATG because of lack of performances in test

but there is so much cricket played these days that may be we have to sub categorize. For example Steyn is heding for ATG status because of tests (hasnt done anything special in odis). Similarly Starc might not end well in tests due to injuries. For bowlers especially its very difficult to be above your peers in all formats. Too much cricket.

 

[Aman]

Steyn (Tests)
Rabada (Tests and ODIs)
AB (ODIs)
Kohli (All formats)
Smith (Tests and ODI's)
Root (Test, probably will get it together eventually)
Guptill (ODIs)
Warner (Tests and ODIs)
Starc (LOIs)
QdK (Tests and ODIs)
Ashwin (Tests)
Hazlewood (Tests)

 

[Sachin136]

There is no such thing as test ATG or ODI ATG. The very purpose of being an ATG is that you were far ahead of your peers in all formats of the game. Each of the actual ATGs on that list were monster players in both tests and ODIs (T20 weren't around)

This is why someone like YK will only be a Pakistani great and not an ATG because he was beyond bad in LOI.

That's just an opinion. Dravid, Gavaskar, Gayle, Bevan, Dhoni etc are all ATGs.

 

[Square Drive]

Steyn (Tests)
Rabada (Tests and ODIs)
AB (ODIs)
Kohli (All formats)
Smith (Tests and ODI's)
Root (Test, probably will get it together eventually)
Guptill (ODIs)
Warner (Tests and ODIs)
Starc (LOIs)
QdK (Tests and ODIs)
Ashwin (Tests)
Hazlewood (Tests)

What about Kane?

 

[Mamoon]

That's just an opinion. Dravid, Gavaskar, Gayle, Bevan, Dhoni etc are all ATGs.

In the contemporary era, it is not possible to be a universal ATG without excelling in LOIs. Dravid was a very good ODI batsman of his time unlike Younis, while ODIs didn't have much significance during Gavaskar's era. Still, a lot of people are actually misinformed about his ODI performances, but you can't blame them because they don't know much about his ODI career apart from that infamous 36* in 60 overs.

Gayle was actually a fantastic Test opener before he became a T20 specialist a few years back, while Dhoni is very underrated in Tests. Sure he was better in ODIs, but he is still the best Test WK batsman from Asia considering the fact that Sangakkara didn't keep in Tests for more than half of his career.

As far as Bevan is concerned, his status would certainly have been higher if he was good in Tests. As things stand, he is not regarded as a universal ATG but only a great ODI player.

 

[Mamoon]

Rohit in ODIs
Jadeja in Tests
Dhoni in ODIs
Hales in LOIs
Stokes and Woakes in all formats
K. Brathwaite in Tests
Holder in all formats
Narine, Russell, Pollard and Gayle in T20s
Guptill in LOIs
Mathews in all formats
Shakib in all formats
Sarfraz in all formats
Hasan Ali in LOIs

You are handing out the 'ATG' tag like free candy. What a disastrous list mainly consisting of 'good' players only. Dhoni and Stokes are the only ATG/potential ATG in that list.

 

[Mamoon]

Warner Test ATG? More like the greatest HTB of all time. Once again embarrassing himself outside his comfort zone. He has failed in every country except Australia and South Africa.

 

[Aman]

What about Kane?

Nah, not good enough.

 

[Square Drive]

Nah, not good enough.

Better than Root overall in my opinion, though I just get the feeling that a bad patch is around the corner for KW. Hope not, though. Love watching him play.

 

[Rayyman]

Warner Test ATG? More like the greatest HTB of all time. Once again embarrassing himself outside his comfort zone. He has failed in every country except Australia and South Africa.

178 in UAE vs Yasir and Zulfi Cobra.

 

[Mamoon]

178 in UAE vs Yasir and Zulfi Cobra.

One innings on a very flat pitch. He doesn't have a single hundred in any country barring Australia, South Africa and the UAE.

 

[Ab Fan]

Tests:

Aus- Hazlewood, Smith
SA- Rabada,Steyn
Eng-Root(long way to go still)
Ind-Kohli(same), Ashwin(all rounder)
NZ-Kane(same)

Odis:

AB, Kohli, Starc, Dhoni
Hazle(potentially)

 

[cricketInsight]

Guys, there is a different between ATG and Great. Most of the names you are naming maybecome great of their time but not ATG for sure.

Rabada/Hazelwood as ATG? Is Shaun Pollock an ATG?
Warner? Is Hayden an ATG?

Some even suggested Holder & Harris Sohail. What are you guys thinking?

 

[Ab Fan]

Guys, there is a different between ATG and Great. Most of the names you are naming maybecome great of their time but not ATG for sure.

Rabada/Hazelwood as ATG? Is Shaun Pollock an ATG?
Warner? Is Hayden an ATG?

Some even suggested Holder & Harris Sohail. What are you guys thinking?

Shaun Pollock is an ATG.Hayden is a great batsmen but not ATG as he struggled in swinging conditions.

Rabada and Hazlewood have potential. Whether they become an ATG or not is to be seen.

As for Warner, the lesser said the better.

 

[Aman]

Better than Root overall in my opinion, though I just get the feeling that a bad patch is around the corner for KW. Hope not, though. Love watching him play.

Kane has been in a bad patch for the last 16 months.

 

[Abdul]

In Tests: Azhar Ali, Alastair Cook, Ajinkya Rahane.

I would've mentioned Asad Shafiq also an year ago because I was hoping he'd overcome his issues with regards to consistency but he's only gone downhill since then and has shown no improvement.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I don't understand the obsession with labeling players as ATGs. Just enjoy the cricket. If they're that great, history will remember them. You need not worry. Your opinion will not matter.

 

[Buffet]

Couple of players will end up as ATG from current generation and no one needs to discuss their names if and when they deserve that tag. From current players, only Steyn has crossed that mark.

You do have to be a great in one and good on other format. That's a bare minimum benchmark in current era. Very few names are good/great in longer and shorter formats, but then we are talking about ATGs.

I spilled my drink reading names of some ATG candidates in this thread, lol.

 

[Junaids]

It's an incredibly weak period currently, rather like 1964-69.

Steyn is a definite ATG and De Villiers a borderline ATG, both on their last legs.

Williamson, Smith and Kohli each have terrible flaws that they need to address to attain greatness.

As for the bowling, it hasn't been this bad since 1974. It goes in cycles, and this just happens to be a very weak one.

But there is promise. Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood all have the raw materials to develop into ATG's. So does Stokes and so does De Kock.

 

[Chrish]

Steyn (Tests)
Rabada (Tests and ODIs)
AB (ODIs)
Kohli (All formats)
Smith (Tests and ODI's)
Root (Test, probably will get it together eventually)
Guptill (ODIs)
Warner (Tests and ODIs)
Starc (LOIs)
QdK (Tests and ODIs)
Ashwin (Tests)
Hazlewood (Tests)

Warner in test is a joke surely ?

 

[Square Drive]

Kane has been in a bad patch for the last 16 months.

If an average of 47 in 2016 which included series in South Africa, Australia, and India, followed by an average of 58 so far in 2017 equates to a lean patch, then I hope every single Pakistani batsman starts going through a lean patch ASAP.

In ODIs he hasn't been at his best but even then last year he managed to average 40+ which again included tough tours to Australia and India.

This year he hasn't been the best in ODIs but he has been getting starts, just needs to convert now.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Smith
Root
Williamson
Hazelwood
Rabada

Those guys are already there I think

The following have the potential to be:

Jadeja
Starc
Pat Cummins
Alzarri Joseph
Haseeb Hameed
Matt Renshaw
Kohli

Others who could possibly make it:

Mushfiqur Rahim
Mustafizur Rahman
Mehedi Hasan Miraz
Lakshan Sandakan
James Pattinson
R Ashwin
Rashid Khan

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Nah, not good enough.

Kane has perhaps the best technique out of any of the modern batsman. Couple that with out early he started and I would say he has the potential of surpassing even Smith. He just needs to average 10 more for his career to get to that bracket. Or Smith's average has to fall.

 

[Ellipsism]

Smith
Root
Williamson
Hazelwood
Rabada

Those guys are already there I think

The following have the potential to be:

Jadeja
Starc
Pat Cummins
Alzarri Joseph
Haseeb Hameed
Matt Renshaw
Kohli

Others who could possibly make it:

Mushfiqur Rahim
Mustafizur Rahman
Mehedi Hasan Miraz
Lakshan Sandakan
James Pattinson
R Ashwin
Rashid Khan

The players in the third list don't even have the potential to be greats for their country (apart from Mushfiqur Rahim) let alone ATG.

People here are just chucking random names around.

 

[Junaids]

Mustafizur Rahman?
Lakshan Sandakan?
Haris Sohail?

Have people even bothered to ask themselves what consititutes an ATG?

I put it to you that the following are mandatory prerequisites to qualify:

1. Number of runs/wickets in the Top Five for your role (Opener, middle-order batsman, keeper, spinner, pace bowler) in history up to the time you play. Obviously this ensures that a cricketer is judged by the standards applicable up to the present day at any given time.

2. Average as a batsman/bowler/keeper in the Top Five in your role in modern history up to the time you play. (Excluding the 19th and early 20th century, whose averages are impossible to match, and with a minimum qualification of 100 wickets for fairness to rule out the likes of Frank Tyson, which proves that I listen to [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] ).

So for a spin bowler, the minimum qualification is 370 wickets (which Herath has just reached) and a bowling average no higher than 22.72 (as a result in times of modern-sized averages of Laker 21.24, Wardle 20.39, O'Reilly 22.59, Murali 22.72), which Herath misses by 5.1 runs).

R Ashwin could therefore reach ATG status, as he has 270 Test wickets at an average of 25.12. But he would need to significantly improve his average in doing that - he'd need to take his next 100 Test wickets at an average of 16.23 compared with 25.12 so far.

The same applies to pace bowling. In this generation, to reach ATG status you require a minimum of 431 Test wickets, at an average no worse than 21.64 (Davidson 20.53, Marshall 20.94, Garner 20.97, Trueman 21.57, McGrath 21.64).

This proves that I was WRONG to call Dale Steyn an ATG. Steyn has 417 wickets at an average of 22.30, so he falls short of ATG status in terms of both number of wickets and average. He would need another 14 wickets, but he has only 13 runs left to play with to keep his average low enough for ATG status.
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] ? [MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION] ?

 

[Ozymandiasza]

The ATG tag is a bit cheap on here it seems.

From a South African perspective only Steyn and AB can be considered ATGs. Amla is borderline and will probably end as just a South African great. Amla's recent slump has left me with a bitter taste.

I wouldn't have Kohli as an ATG in tests... yet. Personally, I have more faith in Root and Smith in the test format. I'll reassess my decision after India has another string of away tours though.

 

[Junaids]

Further comments on my ATG system......

1. Number of runs/wickets in the Top Five for your role (Opener, middle-order batsman, keeper, spinner, pace bowler) in history up to the time you play. Obviously this ensures that a cricketer is judged by the standards applicable up to the present day at any given time.

2. Average as a batsman/bowler/keeper in the Top Five in your role in modern history up to the time you play. (Excluding the 19th and early 20th century, whose averages are impossible to match, and with a minimum qualification of 100 wickets for fairness to rule out the likes of Frank Tyson, which proves that I listen to [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] ).

3. Assignment of ATG status is made at the time the player plays. So Sir Richard Hadlee retired with the wickets world record, so satisfies the requirements for number of wickets taken.

I would add that for players like Shane Warne or Kapil Dev, whose average isn't good enough to qualify, I probably need to add a special exemption to include people who retire with the world record for most runs/wickets but at an inferior average.

So by my reckoning, you have the following ATGs:

Openers:
Gavaskar, Boycott, Greenidge, Kirsten, Hutton

Middle Order batsmen:
Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Kallis

Spinners:
Murali, Warne, Laker, O'Reilly

Quicks:
Trueman, Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose

Overall that looks like a really sensitive system.

 

[msb314]

Yeah, Boult as well as Rabada may well be on their way.

I forgot Starc who should also get there.

Azhar and Yasir maybe only in Tests, but even that seems like a stretch.

Babar Azam, In Sha Allah.

Boult is not good enough in ODI's and Starc not effective in Tests.

 

[msb314]

It's an incredibly weak period currently, rather like 1964-69.

Steyn is a definite ATG and De Villiers a borderline ATG, both on their last legs.

Williamson, Smith and Kohli each have terrible flaws that they need to address to attain greatness.

As for the bowling, it hasn't been this bad since 1974. It goes in cycles, and this just happens to be a very weak one.

But there is promise. Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood all have the raw materials to develop into ATG's. So does Stokes and so does De Kock.

The ATG tag is a bit cheap on here it seems.

From a South African perspective only Steyn and AB can be considered ATGs. Amla is borderline and will probably end as just a South African great. Amla's recent slump has left me with a bitter taste.

I wouldn't have Kohli as an ATG in tests... yet. Personally, I have more faith in Root and Smith in the test format. I'll reassess my decision after India has another string of away tours though.

How so when Steyn is ineffective in ODI's?

 

[msb314]

There is no such thing as test ATG or ODI ATG. The very purpose of being an ATG is that you were far ahead of your peers in all formats of the game. Each of the actual ATGs on that list were monster players in both tests and ODIs (T20 weren't around)

This is why someone like YK will only be a Pakistani great and not an ATG because he was beyond bad in LOI.

By your criteria - Steyn is not an ATG either since he is ineffective in ODI's.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

By your criteria - Steyn is not an ATG either since he is ineffective in ODI's.

Wouldn't call him ineffective, more like "average to good".

 

[msb314]

Amla, ABD, Kohli, Smith, QDK, Williamson, Root, Babar are or will be ATG's in all format of the game

 

[msb314]

Wouldn't call him ineffective, more like "average to good".

okay fair enough.

 

[aloo paratha]

Lol @ people who are putting lists of like 10 people..

 

[msb314]

In Tests: Azhar Ali, Alastair Cook, Ajinkya Rahane.

I would've mentioned Asad Shafiq also an year ago because I was hoping he'd overcome his issues with regards to consistency but he's only gone downhill since then and has shown no improvement.

Rahane is ok - not ATG material for me and certainly not as good as KL Rahul, Kohli and Pujara.

 

[msb314]

Lol @ people who are putting lists of like 10 people..

How big should it be then?

 

[msb314]

Smith
Root
Williamson
Hazelwood
Rabada

Those guys are already there I think

The following have the potential to be:

Jadeja
Starc
Pat Cummins
Alzarri Joseph
Haseeb Hameed
Matt Renshaw
Kohli

Others who could possibly make it:

Mushfiqur Rahim
Mustafizur Rahman
Mehedi Hasan Miraz
Lakshan Sandakan
James Pattinson
R Ashwin
Rashid Khan

Highly unlikely IMO.

 

[msb314]

Rohit in ODIs
Jadeja in Tests
Dhoni in ODIs
Hales in LOIs
Stokes and Woakes in all formats
K. Brathwaite in Tests
Holder in all formats
Narine, Russell, Pollard and Gayle in T20s
Guptill in LOIs
Mathews in all formats
Shakib in all formats
Sarfraz in all formats
Hasan Ali in LOIs

Sorry but these are not ATG players - maybe Stokes has a chance and Shakib if they hit a purple patch but no chance for the others.

QDK, Warner (ODI's), Babar, Jos Butler (ODI's), Faf Du Plessis are potential ATG's IMO other than the Big 4.