Decoding Pakistan’s Close Defeat Rationally and Impassionately

[Farabi]

Let's dissect and leave the emotions aside and focus.

Why did we fell short by just 5 runs in our recent clash? 5 runs mind you. The game was nearly in the bag.

Some might point fingers at the return of Amir and Imad, criticizing their performance. Sure, Imad's final batting moments raised eyebrows, but would India have been bowled out for 120 without their contributions? Is the responsibility to chase 120 solely Imad's, or should it have been on our top 6 specialist batters? Food for thought?

Others might blame Babar's captaincy, questioning if he effectively marshaled our team against a strong Indian lineup. But did he manage to restrict them to a manageable score? Who deserves credit for that achievement?

Then there's the talk about Babar and Rizwan's batting. When will they truly shine against India and become “match winners”? But let's remember, cricket is a team sport. Should the weight of victory solely rest on the shoulders of two batters, or should the entire team share that responsibility? Are there no other batters available in the country?

Some criticize the ever-changing coaching staff and inconsistent selections. Fair point, but isn't Babar the final authority in selections? Haven't we seen a stable team lineup across multiple World Cups?

The debate extends to the structure of our cricket system and PSL selections. But does the number of teams truly affect our performance on the global stage? Is there any evidence for it? Has changing the number of teams changed Pakistani success?

Then others point to the elusive topic of mental strength. Is our team lacking in this department, or is it an overstated concern? Wasn’t India branded as a choker? Didn’t they play this game poorly as well for all the talent at their disposal and just edged past Pakistan?

In this forum, many will criticize the Babar-Rizwan opening duo, arguing they are the root of the problem, despite other supposedly explosive openers like Saim failing to secure their spot.

Others will shift focus to issues with the PCB constitution, the PCB chairman, political connections, and even the Prime Minister. Even the media. But these issues also existed in the 80s and 90s when Pakistan was a better team.

Lastly, some blame the batting, arguing Pakistan isn't producing enough quality batsmen. However, only Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, and Iftikhar have extensive experience in Pakistan's domestic scene as batters. Of those 4, 3 do contribute pretty regularly. Should failures be blamed on the domestic system, or is the issue more complex? How many FC or List A matches have Imad, Shadab, Azam and Usman played as domestic middle order batters? What position has Ifti scored his runs as a domestic batter? What position has Fakhar scored his runs all his life?

Remember, it was just a 5-run difference that separated us from victory. Do we really need to debate all this?

In the end, simplicity could be the solution. Stick to the fundamentals: field 6 specialist batters and 5 dedicated bowlers, ensuring at least one is a specialist spinner. While genuine all-rounders are really not available in Pakistan's current pool, that's acceptable and shouldn't be a deal breaker. Don’t make it worse by playing pseudo all rounders. Attempting to mold Shadab or Imad into a middle-order batter won't change his primary role. It's crucial to assign openers like Fakhar to opening roles and middle-order batsmen like Agha Salman to middle-order positions for optimal team performance. It doesn’t guarantee success but at least it follows common sense.

Let's avoid complicating things and focus on utilizing specialists who have proven their worth in domestic and List A cricket in the role they are being selected for.

Let’s just get the basic right. Leave agendas aside. In the end, the margin was slim, but the solutions may be simpler than we think. Let's keep the conversation constructive and look forward to bouncing back stronger in the next outing!

 

[LordJames]

Let's dissect and leave the emotions aside and focus.

Why did we fell short by just 5 runs in our recent clash? 5 runs mind you. The game was nearly in the bag.

Some might point fingers at the return of Amir and Imad, criticizing their performance. Sure, Imad's final batting moments raised eyebrows, but would India have been bowled out for 120 without their contributions? Is the responsibility to chase 120 solely Imad's, or should it have been on our top 6 specialist batters? Food for thought?

Others might blame Babar's captaincy, questioning if he effectively marshaled our team against a strong Indian lineup. But did he manage to restrict them to a manageable score? Who deserves credit for that achievement?

Then there's the talk about Babar and Rizwan's batting. When will they truly shine against India and become “match winners”? But let's remember, cricket is a team sport. Should the weight of victory solely rest on the shoulders of two batters, or should the entire team share that responsibility? Are there no other batters available in the country?

Some criticize the ever-changing coaching staff and inconsistent selections. Fair point, but isn't Babar the final authority in selections? Haven't we seen a stable team lineup across multiple World Cups?

The debate extends to the structure of our cricket system and PSL selections. But does the number of teams truly affect our performance on the global stage? Is there any evidence for it? Has changing the number of teams changed Pakistani success?

Then others point to the elusive topic of mental strength. Is our team lacking in this department, or is it an overstated concern? Wasn’t India branded as a choker? Didn’t they play this game poorly as well for all the talent at their disposal and just edged past Pakistan?

In this forum, many will criticize the Babar-Rizwan opening duo, arguing they are the root of the problem, despite other supposedly explosive openers like Saim failing to secure their spot.

Others will shift focus to issues with the PCB constitution, the PCB chairman, political connections, and even the Prime Minister. Even the media. But these issues also existed in the 80s and 90s when Pakistan was a better team.

Lastly, some blame the batting, arguing Pakistan isn't producing enough quality batsmen. However, only Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, and Iftikhar have extensive experience in Pakistan's domestic scene as batters. Of those 4, 3 do contribute pretty regularly. Should failures be blamed on the domestic system, or is the issue more complex? How many FC or List A matches have Imad, Shadab, Azam and Usman played as domestic middle order batters? What position has Ifti scored his runs as a domestic batter? What position has Fakhar scored his runs all his life?

Remember, it was just a 5-run difference that separated us from victory. Do we really need to debate all this?

In the end, simplicity could be the solution. Stick to the fundamentals: field 6 specialist batters and 5 dedicated bowlers, ensuring at least one is a specialist spinner. While genuine all-rounders are really not available in Pakistan's current pool, that's acceptable and shouldn't be a deal breaker. Don’t make it worse by playing pseudo all rounders. Attempting to mold Shadab or Imad into a middle-order batter won't change his primary role. It's crucial to assign openers like Fakhar to opening roles and middle-order batsmen like Agha Salman to middle-order positions for optimal team performance. It doesn’t guarantee success but at least it follows common sense.

Let's avoid complicating things and focus on utilizing specialists who have proven their worth in domestic and List A cricket in the role they are being selected for.

Let’s just get the basic right. Leave agendas aside. In the end, the margin was slim, but the solutions may be simpler than we think. Let's keep the conversation constructive and look forward to bouncing back stronger in the next outing!

The reason I disagree with simple solutions is that Pakistan lost to Zimbabwe, Afghanistan, Scotland, Zealand (C?,D?), USA and then India. If simplistic solutions were possible then they would have been applied, its time to uproot the tree and replant!

 

[muqarrab]

Let's dissect and leave the emotions aside and focus.

Why did we fell short by just 5 runs in our recent clash? 5 runs mind you. The game was nearly in the bag.

Some might point fingers at the return of Amir and Imad, criticizing their performance. Sure, Imad's final batting moments raised eyebrows, but would India have been bowled out for 120 without their contributions? Is the responsibility to chase 120 solely Imad's, or should it have been on our top 6 specialist batters? Food for thought?

Others might blame Babar's captaincy, questioning if he effectively marshaled our team against a strong Indian lineup. But did he manage to restrict them to a manageable score? Who deserves credit for that achievement?

Then there's the talk about Babar and Rizwan's batting. When will they truly shine against India and become “match winners”? But let's remember, cricket is a team sport. Should the weight of victory solely rest on the shoulders of two batters, or should the entire team share that responsibility? Are there no other batters available in the country?

Some criticize the ever-changing coaching staff and inconsistent selections. Fair point, but isn't Babar the final authority in selections? Haven't we seen a stable team lineup across multiple World Cups?

The debate extends to the structure of our cricket system and PSL selections. But does the number of teams truly affect our performance on the global stage? Is there any evidence for it? Has changing the number of teams changed Pakistani success?

Then others point to the elusive topic of mental strength. Is our team lacking in this department, or is it an overstated concern? Wasn’t India branded as a choker? Didn’t they play this game poorly as well for all the talent at their disposal and just edged past Pakistan?

In this forum, many will criticize the Babar-Rizwan opening duo, arguing they are the root of the problem, despite other supposedly explosive openers like Saim failing to secure their spot.

Others will shift focus to issues with the PCB constitution, the PCB chairman, political connections, and even the Prime Minister. Even the media. But these issues also existed in the 80s and 90s when Pakistan was a better team.

Lastly, some blame the batting, arguing Pakistan isn't producing enough quality batsmen. However, only Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, and Iftikhar have extensive experience in Pakistan's domestic scene as batters. Of those 4, 3 do contribute pretty regularly. Should failures be blamed on the domestic system, or is the issue more complex? How many FC or List A matches have Imad, Shadab, Azam and Usman played as domestic middle order batters? What position has Ifti scored his runs as a domestic batter? What position has Fakhar scored his runs all his life?

Remember, it was just a 5-run difference that separated us from victory. Do we really need to debate all this?

In the end, simplicity could be the solution. Stick to the fundamentals: field 6 specialist batters and 5 dedicated bowlers, ensuring at least one is a specialist spinner. While genuine all-rounders are really not available in Pakistan's current pool, that's acceptable and shouldn't be a deal breaker. Don’t make it worse by playing pseudo all rounders. Attempting to mold Shadab or Imad into a middle-order batter won't change his primary role. It's crucial to assign openers like Fakhar to opening roles and middle-order batsmen like Agha Salman to middle-order positions for optimal team performance. It doesn’t guarantee success but at least it follows common sense.

Let's avoid complicating things and focus on utilizing specialists who have proven their worth in domestic and List A cricket in the role they are being selected for.

Let’s just get the basic right. Leave agendas aside. In the end, the margin was slim, but the solutions may be simpler than we think. Let's keep the conversation constructive and look forward to bouncing back stronger in the next outing!

Your understanding of T20 is no better than how Babar and Rizwan understand the game.......

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It was a thoroughly disappointing batting performance. Hard to explain how disappointed I am. The game was literally in the bag. And they blew it. I would put the blame almost entirely on Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar. They were the gun batters. They didn't even have to take any risks. It was run a ball and completely in Babar and Rizwan's wheelhouse. And they started well too. It wasn't like 12-4 in the first six. Unbelievable. Its matches like these that kill your interest and excitement as a fan. No offence but I don't see how you can decode this defeat rationally. There's no way you can't yell expletives at Rizwan and Babar.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't care if you are playing on a minefield. 120 is a chasable target even on that. The bowlers did their job, bundling out India inside 19 overs. But damn, did the batting blow it or what. Top-drawer bottling effort. Yeah Bumrah bowled well but still, this should have been chased down.

Old debate, simple answer: Pakistan's batting not very good.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan cricket has regressed beyond repair now , the people need to accept it and treat Pakistan matches as minnows. This is ballant truth , no more living in baseless excuses. This team lacks skills , also it lacks sense of integrity to fight.

 

[Alter_Ego]

I thought no. 3 is reserved to the best batter in the team and you have Usman the hack playing in the most important position. Lets not even talk about Iftikhar and Shadab not worth mentioning or to be in the Pakistan domestic squad.

 

[pakistani pride]

Pakistan cricket has regressed beyond repair now , the people need to accept it and treat Pakistan matches as minnows. This is ballant truth , no more living in baseless excuses. This team lacks skills , also it lacks sense of integrity to fight.

This!
End of thread.

 

[Justcrazy]

This!
End of thread.

I hope others also agree with this .
There is a saying you can wake up a sleeping person , but cannot wake up a person pretending to sleep.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pakistan cricket has regressed beyond repair now , the people need to accept it and treat Pakistan matches as minnows. This is ballant truth , no more living in baseless excuses. This team lacks skills , also it lacks sense of integrity to fight.

It is regressing but hasn't quite reached the beyond repair point.

However we are rapidly heading in that direction.

 

[Saurav]

It was lost when Rizwan went out attacking Bumrah. Smart thing would be to see him off and attack others. India was on the mat literally

 

[MP2011]

It was lost when Rizwan went out attacking Bumrah. Smart thing would be to see him off and attack others. India was on the mat literally

Rizwan did the same thing in ODI WC last year. Once Bumrah took him out, rest meekly followed.

However to be fair to Rizwan, that delivery in ODI WC was a peach.

 

[Barragan]

There is nothing to dissect.

Simple, Fakhar played the dumbest shot and let Ind back in the game.

It was run a ball after he that six and was easily in Pakistan's hand.

Rizwan also didn't play his role either and tried to take on their main bowler.

Two biggest culprits of the defeat.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It was lost when Rizwan went out attacking Bumrah. Smart thing would be to see him off and attack others. India was on the mat literally

Yes this opened the floodgates. Was completely unnecessary after tuk tuking the weaker bowlers

 

[jiduguravindra]

Pakistan bowling is still good but their batting is minnow level.

 

[Energy]

Rizwan and Usman fumbled the easier batting period where the ball wasn't sticking as much.

They never thought of getting ahead of the game, and instead relied on 5rpo to just keep up with the rate with the analogy that wickets in hand will win the match. Those wickets in hand were of unreliable batters who will not win you anything.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

This was really a hurtful experience.

No one expects Pakistan to chase down 200, even on the flattest of pitches. They don’t have the batters to do that.
But this chase was tailor made for them — the target was , in essence, a run a ball. Get a boundary or so an over and no dot balls. All could have been achieved playing relatively conventionally (which is all they can do, Fakhar aside).

The fact they failed to win because their run rate was too low when chasing 120 was pathetic — it would almost be understandable if they were blasted out by Bumrah et al. for 90 odd

The preparation was woeful (why come to England in May when the tournament is in the Caribbean/US).
The selection was confused.

Babar is a fine ODI player, a good Test player but not a T20 opener. A poor and limited captain (and that won’t change)
Rizwan is also a capable player but has limitations. Truly a dreadful shot, at that stage against India’s best bowler.
Usman looked like a boy playing against men.
Fakhar will be hit and miss — I’d forgive him
Imad has one shot (making room and hitting through the offside) — block that and you negate him
Shadab is more miss than hit.
Iftikhar is a franchise league player

The point is that I doubt whether there is a more competitive eleven to put out there.
Kirsten will be removed after a year and he’ll join the long list of coaches who wonder why they took the job.

Pakistan are no longer mercurial, they are just average.
What an indictment for a nation of 250 million where cricket is the main sport.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Rizwan's dismissal was stupid. Why would you go after the best bowler on a tricky pitch and stonewall every other bowler.
Fakhar's dismissal was pathetic but even after his departure it was chaseable.

Imad showed legit 0 intent with the bat despite batting in the last 5 overs.

It was a stupid stupid performance with the bat.

Iftikhar needs to be sent out of the team permanently. He is nothing but an aged chicken.

It's hard to support this team. But it's a microcosm of what the whole country is going through.

This is a country at its worst with no plans or intentions of improving. Every one has simply given up and everyone just wants to save himself.

 

[Omer2002]

Let's dissect and leave the emotions aside and focus.

Why did we fell short by just 5 runs in our recent clash? 5 runs mind you. The game was nearly in the bag.

Some might point fingers at the return of Amir and Imad, criticizing their performance. Sure, Imad's final batting moments raised eyebrows, but would India have been bowled out for 120 without their contributions? Is the responsibility to chase 120 solely Imad's, or should it have been on our top 6 specialist batters? Food for thought?

Others might blame Babar's captaincy, questioning if he effectively marshaled our team against a strong Indian lineup. But did he manage to restrict them to a manageable score? Who deserves credit for that achievement?

Then there's the talk about Babar and Rizwan's batting. When will they truly shine against India and become “match winners”? But let's remember, cricket is a team sport. Should the weight of victory solely rest on the shoulders of two batters, or should the entire team share that responsibility? Are there no other batters available in the country?

Some criticize the ever-changing coaching staff and inconsistent selections. Fair point, but isn't Babar the final authority in selections? Haven't we seen a stable team lineup across multiple World Cups?

The debate extends to the structure of our cricket system and PSL selections. But does the number of teams truly affect our performance on the global stage? Is there any evidence for it? Has changing the number of teams changed Pakistani success?

Then others point to the elusive topic of mental strength. Is our team lacking in this department, or is it an overstated concern? Wasn’t India branded as a choker? Didn’t they play this game poorly as well for all the talent at their disposal and just edged past Pakistan?

In this forum, many will criticize the Babar-Rizwan opening duo, arguing they are the root of the problem, despite other supposedly explosive openers like Saim failing to secure their spot.

Others will shift focus to issues with the PCB constitution, the PCB chairman, political connections, and even the Prime Minister. Even the media. But these issues also existed in the 80s and 90s when Pakistan was a better team.

Lastly, some blame the batting, arguing Pakistan isn't producing enough quality batsmen. However, only Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, and Iftikhar have extensive experience in Pakistan's domestic scene as batters. Of those 4, 3 do contribute pretty regularly. Should failures be blamed on the domestic system, or is the issue more complex? How many FC or List A matches have Imad, Shadab, Azam and Usman played as domestic middle order batters? What position has Ifti scored his runs as a domestic batter? What position has Fakhar scored his runs all his life?

Remember, it was just a 5-run difference that separated us from victory. Do we really need to debate all this?

In the end, simplicity could be the solution. Stick to the fundamentals: field 6 specialist batters and 5 dedicated bowlers, ensuring at least one is a specialist spinner. While genuine all-rounders are really not available in Pakistan's current pool, that's acceptable and shouldn't be a deal breaker. Don’t make it worse by playing pseudo all rounders. Attempting to mold Shadab or Imad into a middle-order batter won't change his primary role. It's crucial to assign openers like Fakhar to opening roles and middle-order batsmen like Agha Salman to middle-order positions for optimal team performance. It doesn’t guarantee success but at least it follows common sense.

Let's avoid complicating things and focus on utilizing specialists who have proven their worth in domestic and List A cricket in the role they are being selected for.

Let’s just get the basic right. Leave agendas aside. In the end, the margin was slim, but the solutions may be simpler than we think. Let's keep the conversation constructive and look forward to bouncing back stronger in the next outing!

What would have salman agha done? There is no talent in Pak and that is end off it is a fact one needs to digest. Usman Khan was the best player at PSL and he was given a chance i know too early for him yet but clearly international level is a different beast. Now if you dont have talent one needs a brain and guess what PCB dont have that either. All world cup they have been playing 4 out and out pacers plus azam or shadab who not hasnt bowled nor batted. Lets compare it with indian teams balance yesterday. Even though they have great batters they had TWO batting and bowling allrounders in Jadeja and Axar Patel then they had TWO bowling and batting allrounders in Dube and Pandya. Now add the three pacers and that is what you can a balance team all areas covered. Bat very deep and batting covered in 20 overs and funnily enough it was Siraj and last pacers 17 runs partnership which was crucial. Since Amir and Imad came back PAK batting balance has been pathetic knowing they cant bat to save their lives they keep selecting all bowlers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This was really a hurtful experience.

No one expects Pakistan to chase down 200, even on the flattest of pitches. They don’t have the batters to do that.
But this chase was tailor made for them — the target was , in essence, a run a ball. Get a boundary or so an over and no dot balls. All could have been achieved playing relatively conventionally (which is all they can do, Fakhar aside).

The fact they failed to win because their run rate was too low when chasing 120 was pathetic — it would almost be understandable if they were blasted out by Bumrah et al. for 90 odd

The preparation was woeful (why come to England in May when the tournament is in the Caribbean/US).
The selection was confused.

Babar is a fine ODI player, a good Test player but not a T20 opener. A poor and limited captain (and that won’t change)
Rizwan is also a capable player but has limitations. Truly a dreadful shot, at that stage against India’s best bowler.
Usman looked like a boy playing against men.
Fakhar will be hit and miss — I’d forgive him
Imad has one shot (making room and hitting through the offside) — block that and you negate him
Shadab is more miss than hit.
Iftikhar is a franchise league player

The point is that I doubt whether there is a more competitive eleven to put out there.
Kirsten will be removed after a year and he’ll join the long list of coaches who wonder why they took the job.

Pakistan are no longer mercurial, they are just average.
What an indictment for a nation of 250 million where cricket is the main sport.

Perfectly summed up. About as rational as you can get after seeing this match.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Nothing to dissect to be honest. Let me make it clear here, Pakistan only has 3 batsmen in their team (Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar). Now most people on here don't rate Babar and Rizwan as T20 bats but to speak plain truth they are cream batters in from our country. They might not be good for the world but they are our best so we got to live with them.

Now in this chase I wasn't expecting much from Fakhar as wicket was a funny one to bat on. That left a larger responsibility on Babar and Rizwan to carry the chase. Babar got out to Bumrah. Given how experienced our captain is he should have realised one thing (don't give Bumrah wickets and you'd win) yet he got out to Bumrah. I got to admit here Bumrah got Babar out rather than Babar giving his wicket. There was a difference in class which translated into the wicket.

Now for the rest of the chase we were only left with Rizwan to make as many as possible. For some pathan reason this lad was unable to read basic situation here. Game at that time was in Pakistan's grasp given Rizwan was out there but for no reason whatsoever he attacked Bumrah and gave his wicket on first ball of Bumrah's over. That was the door wide open for India and I don't expect India to make similar mistakes as Paksitan made from similar situation against USA.

We can complain about Shadab, Imad and Ifti but the fact is they are nowhere even close enough to get 20 runs at even 100SR against this attack on that wicket. That is a hard fact.

Another hard fact had it been Canada, Oman or even PNG they might have sneaked a win if they were chasing 120.

 

[TheSultan]

Every person dissecting this performance will probably put the blame on players that they don’t particularly like. I’m trying to take emotion out of the equation.

For me, Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar should never have let this game go close. All 3 dismissals were very poor. Amazing that Bumrah is MoM - he didn’t even need to do anything.

I don’t know what Babar was trying to play - half leave, half dab to third man absolute nothing shot because he has no clarity. Just a mental midget.

Fakhar - yes his game can be high risk. But absolutely unnecessary. Should have really played the percentages this game.

And Rizwan I mean even a schoolkid wouldn’t have done that. The Bumrah over was a throw of the dice from Rohit. Bumrah came on to try and “prise” a wicket from somewhere. Rizwan just handed it on a plate FIRST BALL. And that too to just a completely straight ball on the stumps. That is one of the biggest bottle jobs in history.

Having said all that, Imad to play and miss attempting the same shot 5 times is poor too. And Iftikhar - don’t even get me started on this waste of space. 3 full tosses with nothing to show for it

 

[chinaman00]

I don't care if you are playing on a minefield. 120 is a chasable target even on that. The bowlers did their job, bundling out India inside 19 overs. But damn, did the batting blow it or what. Top-drawer bottling effort. Yeah Bumrah bowled well but still, this should have been chased down.

Old debate, simple answer: Pakistan's batting not very good.

That’s what you get when you persist, against all common sense, with a middle order made up of Imad, Shadab & Ifty.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

People are losing their minds about not chasing 120, IT WAS THE PITCH. 120 was more than par score for such a horrible pitch. India had got bundled out for 79 while chasing 126 against NZ in 2016 in Nagpur.
Pakistan had kinda had lost when they allowed India at almost 8 runs per over for the first 11 runs. India had crumbled amazingly but tail wagged a bit for those extra 19 runs in the end.

One should not start overestimating Pakistan bowlers here, they literally got the best of the best conditions to bowl in their lifetime and were leaking at 8 runs per over. They are still good but not mind blowing level that some perceptions are becoming, they let USA chase down 159 dont forget that.

A complete revamp is needed. Babar Azam should never be the captain. He is too timid to lead.

 

[chinaman00]

People are losing their minds about not chasing 120, IT WAS THE PITCH. 120 was more than par score for such a horrible pitch. India had got bundled out for 79 while chasing 126 against NZ in 2016 in Nagpur.
Pakistan had kinda had lost when they allowed India at almost 8 runs per over for the first 11 runs. India had crumbled amazingly but tail wagged a bit for those extra 19 runs in the end.

One should not start overestimating Pakistan bowlers here, they literally got the best of the best conditions to bowl in their lifetime and were leaking at 8 runs per over. They are still good but not mind blowing level that some perceptions are becoming, they let USA chase down 159 dont forget that.

A complete revamp is needed. Babar Azam should never be the captain. He is too timid to lead.

Nothing was wrong with the pitch. Even the Pakistani coach said the same and poured cold water on this convenient narrative being spun.

 

[Abid Z]

There is nothing to sort out. Pak cricket has been awful for many years just disguised well with the odd good performance. Let me explain

1) Opposition bowlers bowl tight lines -batsmen should have a range of reverse sweeps, lap shots ..our bowlers just don’t. They put pressure on themselves when batting

2) sometimes you can’t hit air shots because the pitch has irregular bounce or the situation demands 1’s and 2’s. Our batsmen just try to slog brainlessly.
3) not playing enough competitive cricket. We may have over 35’s but we we actually have played that much meaningful cricket nor shown any real development
4) the bowling was fantastic in this game but even still you could see a general brainless attitude where the bowlers were not using variable bounce by bowling dead straight or setting the right fields. Many times there were no slips.

Pak cricket has no decent young players progressing from tests to T20’s. Tests develop a player not LO CRICKET. Just look at Harris Sohail playing only leagues means he just can’t bowl tight when needed or and batsman eg Fakhar and Iftikhar..just take 1’s and 2’s and take pressure off.

I think Pak should for a while focus on their test team at least that seems ok. Like England did ten years ago after being knocked out of LO world cups early.

 

[Usman Chadda]

We can decode our defeats all we want, but the fact of the matter is that these boys are soiling themselves in crunch situations and honestly, being shown up by the likes of USA and Zimbabwe under pressure too.

WC2022, exactly the same thing happened where Pakistan lost a near-guaranteed win against India to a Kohli master-class and brainless captaincy. Choked chasing a low total against Zimbabwe of all teams at Perth, and lost wickets consistently trying to hit to the biggest part of the ground. Zero game awareness, absolutely none.

WC2024, exact same stupidities repeated. Both games were lost due to the players losing their minds in crunch situations. They just cannot handle pressure and stop thinking. Haris' brain-dead over against mediocre US batsmen who had developed stage fright suddenly and Rizwan/Imad's brain-fade yesterday where they absolutely stopped scoring at certain points of their innings.

These players have ZERO game awareness. Any half-decent club cricketer will be able to out-smart them on the cricket field, even if they are severely limited in skill. That's how bad these paindus are. They just know how to play in the nets, and they come to the ground and try to do the same. There is no game-plan, no street smart thinking and certainly, no confidence in their abilities.

The issue starts with the captain, who is evidently one of the most brain-dead captains in Pakistan cricket today. He doesn't inspire anyone, let alone a bunch of un-skilled individuals playing at the highest level. He relies on other teams' mistakes to win games, and doesn't have any insight into the game whatsoever. His personality is quite shocking for someone who is the captain of the national team.

And no, someone like Shaheen is also not the answer. We don't have anyone in Pakistan cricket at the moment who can take up captaincy and really try to turn things around.

Also I agree with the OP, please stop glorifying mediocre cricketers. What's happening on social media right now is disgusting.

 

[Mamoon]

There is one man responsible for the defeat.

It is the guy who called himself the best all-rounder at this World Cup.

He saw that the Indian batsmen struggled to hit shots after the 14/15th over when the ball got softer and started sticking in the pitch.

He saw that Rizwan and Fakhar perished trying to go for glory shots.

He saw that he himself was struggling to hit boundaries and the equation was still run a ball.

And yet, he did not change his approach, he did not decide to do what would have won Pakistan the match, i.e. knock the ball around and keep dot balls to a minimum.

This is the guy who has been praised for his intelligence, cool head and match awareness by his deluded fans.

In spite of all that Babar, Rizwan, Usman and Fakhar did, the match still firmly in Pakistan’s control and Imad was in control of Pakistan’s destiny and he blew it.

He played the same role that Amir did vs USA, where for all the mistakes that other players made, the destiny was still in Amir’s hands when he was handed the Super Over.

This is the contribution of the two retired players who were brought back from retirement so that they can boost Pakistan’s chances of winning the World Cup.

Both of these expired losers have lost a game for Pakistan. What where they brought back for?

 

[Misia]

...........4........44..1.......64........44.......46.....1....6.........12........42............1.......12...............4...............3.2 6.6...........6.1.12.3..4.412..4..4. average Pakistan innings.

 

[Usman Chadda]

There is one man responsible for the defeat.

It is the guy who called himself the best all-rounder at this World Cup.

He saw that the Indian batsmen struggled to hit shots after the 14/15th over when the ball got softer and started sticking in the pitch.

He saw that Rizwan and Fakhar perished trying to go for glory shots.

He saw that he himself was struggling to hit boundaries and the equation was still run a ball.

And yet, he did not change his approach, he did not decide to do what would have won Pakistan the match, i.e. knock the ball around and keep dot balls to a minimum.

This is the guy who has been praised for his intelligence, cool head and match awareness by his deluded fans.

In spite of all that Babar, Rizwan, Usman and Fakhar did, the match still firmly in Pakistan’s control and Imad was in control of Pakistan’s destiny and he blew it.

He played the same role that Amir did vs USA, where for all the mistakes that other players made, the destiny was still in Amir’s hands when he was handed the Super Over.

This is the contribution of the two retired players who were brought back from retirement so that they can boost Pakistan’s chances of winning the World Cup.

Both of these expired losers have lost a game for Pakistan. What where they brought back for?

Everyone trying to re-write events from the match yesterday and put the blame on everyone but Imad, fail to mention that Pakistan required run-a-ball till Rizwan got out.

 

[Mamoon]

Everyone trying to re-write events from the match yesterday and put the blame on everyone but Imad, fail to mention that Pakistan required run-a-ball till Rizwan got out.

Exactly.

Babar did nothing with the bat like always vs India.

Usman looked like a UAE player yesterday.

Fakhar was beyond stupid to charge down the wicket like that.

Rizwan was beyond stupid to go for a glory shot vs an all-time great fast bowler on a pitch like that.

And yet, when Rizwan got out, Pakistan needed 40 in 35 with 6 wickets in hand and the cool minded and intelligent Imad pulled off a bottle job for the ages.

He played 40 in 35 like 40 in 25, and this is why Pakistan lost, he kept going for shots that he was unable to execute and were not even required.

Imad is 100% responsible for the defeat yesterday and @Rana @topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim @emranabbas will have to live with it.

We all know what their narrative would have been had Pakistan picked Nawaz instead of Imad and he played this innings yesterday and we all know what Imad would have said on TV about Pakistan’s batting approach yesterday.

 

[Rana]

He played 40 in 35 like 40 in 25, and this is why Pakistan lost, he kept going for shots that he was unable to execute and were not even required.

Imad is 100% responsible for the defeat yesterday and @Rana @topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim @emranabbas will have to live with it.

What do you recon @Saj ? Is Imad 100% responsible for Pakistan’s defeat yesterday? Do me and others have to live with this for the rest of our lives?

 

[Extra_Cover]

Exactly.

Babar did nothing with the bat like always vs India.

Usman looked like a UAE player yesterday.

Fakhar was beyond stupid to charge down the wicket like that.

Rizwan was beyond stupid to go for a glory shot vs an all-time great fast bowler on a pitch like that.

And yet, when Rizwan got out, Pakistan needed 40 in 35 with 6 wickets in hand and the cool minded and intelligent Imad pulled off a bottle job for the ages.

He played 40 in 35 like 40 in 25, and this is why Pakistan lost, he kept going for shots that he was unable to execute and were not even required.

Imad is 100% responsible for the defeat yesterday and @Rana @topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim @emranabbas will have to live with it.

We all know what their narrative would have been had Pakistan picked Nawaz instead of Imad and he played this innings yesterday and we all know what Imad would have said on TV about Pakistan’s batting approach yesterday.

I agree with your post to a large extent. To add further on it not only Imad was braindead in the match with all those hit and miss, his attitude and physical fitness was abysmal. He looked like an overweight part-time cricketer from an associate nation rather than an athlete you need to be in today's game. Simple nudges for 1s and 2s would have won the game but that requires brain and physical fitness which he didn't had, what he had was the bad boy attitude though which our fans on here admire so much.

 

[Swing]

It isn't 100% Imad's fault that we lost yesterday, but damn near close. He scored 15 runs off 23 balls, coming into bat towards the end of a T20 run chase. It was mind boggling watching him try to do the same cut over and over. What was he thinking? Even if he managed to connect, he'd still only score a dot due to the field setting. Had he just went for singles and doubles we'd not be discussing this.

Iftikhar also really screwed up. I recall at least 3 deliveries which any good T20 batter would have dispatched for six, yet he could barely play them

 

[Mamoon]

I predicted before the cup that your narrative would be to insult or mock people and call Babar an amazing captain on wins but if Pakistan would lose you'd go for Amir and imad as scapegoats.

You denied it but I was right. Remember god is and has been watching you lie.

You claimed Babar and rizwan would single handidely take Pakistan home with 10 wickets in hand. You claimed Babar would 2-0 India, you went on an insult spree to alot of good people, and you claimed you boycotted and didn't watch a single game but were watching everyone.

Not a single soul will take you seriously anymore after yesterday. The fact you have pinged me 8x after I ignored you shows I now live in your head rent free. This is the last time I speak to you, I will take solace in the fact that everyday the idea of me existing torments you

I didn’t claim that Babar and Rizwan would single-handedly take Pakistan home with 10 wickets.

I said that Babar and Rizwan should aim to take Pakistan home after 19.5 overs to annoy one track mind fans like yourself.

If you don’t understand the difference between would and should, I can help you. However, I’m not surprised that you don’t considering you can’t spell choked.

I didn’t need to make an effort to single Amir and Imad as scapegoats. They presented themselves with their clown show vs USA & India respectively.

This is what they were brought back for and this is what their deluded fans like you lot were thumping their chests for.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Exactly.

Babar did nothing with the bat like always vs India.

Usman looked like a UAE player yesterday.

Fakhar was beyond stupid to charge down the wicket like that.

Rizwan was beyond stupid to go for a glory shot vs an all-time great fast bowler on a pitch like that.

And yet, when Rizwan got out, Pakistan needed 40 in 35 with 6 wickets in hand and the cool minded and intelligent Imad pulled off a bottle job for the ages.

He played 40 in 35 like 40 in 25, and this is why Pakistan lost, he kept going for shots that he was unable to execute and were not even required.

Imad is 100% responsible for the defeat yesterday and @Rana @topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim @emranabbas will have to live with it.

We all know what their narrative would have been had Pakistan picked Nawaz instead of Imad and he played this innings yesterday and we all know what Imad would have said on TV about Pakistan’s batting approach yesterday.

He is not 100% responsible. I think Rizwan did worse given the circumstances and should have batted for longer.

But there can be no excuse for someone batting at a 65sr and jogging singles. Imad looked like he was making a comeback in a second XI county game. No spark, fight or intent.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Exactly.

Babar did nothing with the bat like always vs India.

Usman looked like a UAE player yesterday.

Fakhar was beyond stupid to charge down the wicket like that.

Rizwan was beyond stupid to go for a glory shot vs an all-time great fast bowler on a pitch like that.

And yet, when Rizwan got out, Pakistan needed 40 in 35 with 6 wickets in hand and the cool minded and intelligent Imad pulled off a bottle job for the ages.

He played 40 in 35 like 40 in 25, and this is why Pakistan lost, he kept going for shots that he was unable to execute and were not even required.

Imad is 100% responsible for the defeat yesterday and @Rana @topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim @emranabbas will have to live with it.

We all know what their narrative would have been had Pakistan picked Nawaz instead of Imad and he played this innings yesterday and we all know what Imad would have said on TV about Pakistan’s batting approach yesterday.

Imad played a terrible knock and must live with it.

I dont have to live with it, because for me Imad is just a player who performed poorly on the day.

However, the way you are gloating it would seem that you have found your Novocaine by being able to blame Imad for the loss.

Also simply saying its only because of Imad Pakistan lost is incorrect, because at the end of the day any of the 7 batsmen could have taken responsibility to kill the game but most of them failed to do it.

Thats like saying that a player who scored an own goal is 100 perecent responsible for the loss, even though 10 other miserable players couldnt score a single one for their side.

I dont expect you to change your rant though.

Anything to deflect criticism off Babar will bring you delight.

Its sad to see a quality poster like you left playing petty politics and supporting a nobody like Babar simply because of the Peshawar and Zalmi lobby.

Wish you were above and beyond all this.

 

[mominsaigol]

I didn’t claim that Babar and Rizwan would single-handedly take Pakistan home with 10 wickets.

I said that Babar and Rizwan should aim to take Pakistan home after 19.5 overs to annoy one track mind fans like yourself.

If you don’t understand the difference between would and should, I can help you. However, I’m not surprised that you don’t considering you can’t spell choked.

I didn’t need to make an effort to single Amir and Imad as scapegoats. They presented themselves with their clown show vs USA & India respectively.

This is what they were brought back for and this is what their deluded fans like you lot were thumping their chests for.

You claimed Pat cummings was the captain in 2022. You need to make an effort on learning how to research first.

 

[mominsaigol]

Imad played a terrible knock and must live with it.

I dont have to live with it, because for me Imad is just a player who performed poorly on the day.

However, the way you are gloating it would seem that you have found your Novocaine by being able to blame Imad for the loss.

Also simply saying its only because of Imad Pakistan lost is incorrect, because at the end of the day any of the 7 batsmen could have taken responsibility to kill the game but most of them failed to do it.

Thats like saying that a player who scored an own goal is 100 perecent responsible for the loss, even though 10 other miserable players couldnt score a single one for their side.

I dont expect you to change your rant though.

Anything to deflect criticism off Babar will bring you delight.

Its sad to see a quality poster like you left playing petty politics and supporting a nobody like Babar simply because of the Peshawar and Zalmi lobby.

Wish you were above and beyond all this.

Theirs no quality.

 

[emranabbas]

Exactly.

Babar did nothing with the bat like always vs India.

Usman looked like a UAE player yesterday.

Fakhar was beyond stupid to charge down the wicket like that.

Rizwan was beyond stupid to go for a glory shot vs an all-time great fast bowler on a pitch like that.

And yet, when Rizwan got out, Pakistan needed 40 in 35 with 6 wickets in hand and the cool minded and intelligent Imad pulled off a bottle job for the ages.

He played 40 in 35 like 40 in 25, and this is why Pakistan lost, he kept going for shots that he was unable to execute and were not even required.

Imad is 100% responsible for the defeat yesterday and @Rana @topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim @emranabbas will have to live with it.

We all know what their narrative would have been had Pakistan picked Nawaz instead of Imad and he played this innings yesterday and we all know what Imad would have said on TV about Pakistan’s batting approach yesterday.

Who on earth plays run a ball till the 15th over in t20?

What was rizwan thinking, take the game to the last over ?

Rizwan lost us the game he's a specialist batsmen should have finished it before even imad stepped in the crease

What was he thinking only making 35 runs in the powerplay?

If its down to the middle order to make the runs then should let the middle open but no rizwan want the opening spot and doesn't want to make runs either

We were chasing 120 not 220

 

[Mockingbird]

Nothing was wrong with the pitch. Even the Pakistani coach said the same and poured cold water on this convenient narrative being spun.

There was something in the pitch. Post 13-14 overs, the softer ball was getting stuck in the pitch & so it was difficult to hit out for both the teams. But still no excuse to Pakistan’s batting as they didn’t face the cloudy conditions that India had early on - the sun was up and the seam was down. They should have finished the game before the 14th over.

 

[emranabbas]

There was something in the pitch. Post 13-14 overs, the softer ball was getting stuck in the pitch & so it was difficult to hit out for both the teams. But still no excuse to Pakistan’s batting as they didn’t face the cloudy conditions that India had early on - the sun was up and the seam was down. They should have finished the game before the 14th over.

India scored 50 runs during the powerplay and 69 runs in the remaining 14 overs, reflecting their strategy.

Pakistan followed their usual strategy when chasing, maintaining a run-a-ball pace for the first 15 overs before accelerating in the last 5 overs, but this approach didn't succeed on that pitch.

 

[emranabbas]

I didn’t claim that Babar and Rizwan would single-handedly take Pakistan home with 10 wickets.

I said that Babar and Rizwan should aim to take Pakistan home after 19.5 overs to annoy one track mind fans like yourself.

If you don’t understand the difference between would and should, I can help you. However, I’m not surprised that you don’t considering you can’t spell choked.

I didn’t need to make an effort to single Amir and Imad as scapegoats. They presented themselves with their clown show vs USA & India respectively.

This is what they were brought back for and this is what their deluded fans like you lot were thumping their chests for.

You confident that Babar and Rizwan will take the game to 19th over and finish it but then your dream shattered in the second innings

You even claimed pakistan have beaten India twice before under babars captaincy the game was even finished then

 

[Mamoon]

Imad spent months on the Tabish show, criticizing Pakistani batsmen for lacking game awareness and not reading the situation.

Then Pakistan asked him to walk the talk and show the others how it is done and we saw the results.

Imad is cooked for life - he & his fans will never come back from this.

 

[Dantheone]

The only players who can still play in a reformulated team:

Babar - despite being selfish scorer he is still best batsman in the country.
Rizwan - Despite the criticism, he is needed in the team. Probably better as w/k who can bat.
Fakhar - Bring him up to open or at 3. He is not consistent but is vital. Can do good damage specially against spinners.
Shaheen - He can get you the wickets early on. Probably best fast bowler available.
Naseem - Need to back him up for long term.

Rest all should be dropped permanently.
Specialist spinner is urgently needed.

 

[Mamoon]

The only players who can still play in a reformulated team:

Babar - despite being selfish scorer he is still best batsman in the country.
Rizwan - Despite the criticism, he is needed in the team. Probably better as w/k who can bat.
Fakhar - Bring him up to open or at 3. He is not consistent but is vital. Can do good damage specially against spinners.
Shaheen - He can get you the wickets early on. Probably best fast bowler available.
Naseem - Need to back him up for long term.

Rest all should be dropped permanently.
Specialist spinner is urgently needed.

This is pretty much spot on, but I would add Usman to the list too. He looked like a UAE player yesterday, but can’t judge him too much on a pitch where everyone struggled.

Usman might not deliver in the long-term, but he needs more chances especially on Pakistani wickets. He can do well there, and it is not like Pakistan is loaded with options.

He at least deserves half the chances garbage players like Iftikhar and Shadab received.

 

[Dantheone]

This is pretty much spot on, but I would add Usman to the list too. He looked like a UAE player yesterday, but can’t judge him too much on a pitch where everyone struggled.

Usman might not deliver in the long-term, but he needs more chances especially on Pakistani wickets. He can do well there, and it is not like Pakistan is loaded with options.

He at least deserves half the chances garbage players like Iftikhar and Shadab received.

I would have added Usman in the list too. He looks to be dedicated and positive. I think he's feeling the pressure of international cricket so he needs more time to bring up his game.

 

[emranabbas]

The only players who can still play in a reformulated team:

Babar - despite being selfish scorer he is still best batsman in the country.
Rizwan - Despite the criticism, he is needed in the team. Probably better as w/k who can bat.
Fakhar - Bring him up to open or at 3. He is not consistent but is vital. Can do good damage specially against spinners.
Shaheen - He can get you the wickets early on. Probably best fast bowler available.
Naseem - Need to back him up for long term.

Rest all should be dropped permanently.
Specialist spinner is urgently needed.

How many times are you going to keep changing the team?

Over the last four years, everything has been altered: the management, the coaches, the chairman, etc.

The only constants have been Babar's leadership and Rizwan's influence. Maybe that's the issue.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

That’s what you get when you persist, against all common sense, with a middle order made up of Imad, Shadab & Ifty.

I meant to say that Pakistan was not really in the game. The pitch gave a false sense of comfort to Pakistan.
Have a look at the game below,

IND vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 13th Match, Super 10 Group 2 at Nagpur, March 15, 2016

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs New Zealand 13th Match, Super 10 Group 2, cricket scorecard, World T20 2015/16 dated March 15, 2016.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan bowling is still good but their batting is minnow level.

pakistan bowling was good because of pitch. They failed against USA.

 

[jiduguravindra]

pakistan bowling was good because of pitch. They failed against USA.

I genuinely believe even on normal pitches their bowling is good. They may not defend 150,160 type scores but definitely they can defend 180 kind of scores.In my Pov their bowling is two times better than their batting.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I genuinely believe even on normal pitches their bowling is good. They may not defend 150,160 type scores but definitely they can defend 180 kind of scores.In my Pov their bowling is two times better than their batting.

Yea. Bowling is better than England and few other teams. Batting is dud. But you cannot go with bowling without any genuine spin threat. There are some pitches where pacers will travel

 

[jiduguravindra]

Yea. Bowling is better than England and few other teams. Batting is dud. But you cannot go with bowling without any genuine spin threat. There are some pitches where pacers will travel

They have abrar, the genuine spinner but they play part timer shadab because of his batting abilities, at best he is no 7.

 

[Kroll]

Let's dissect and leave the emotions aside and focus.

Why did we fell short by just 5 runs in our recent clash? 5 runs mind you. The game was nearly in the bag.

Some might point fingers at the return of Amir and Imad, criticizing their performance. Sure, Imad's final batting moments raised eyebrows, but would India have been bowled out for 120 without their contributions? Is the responsibility to chase 120 solely Imad's, or should it have been on our top 6 specialist batters? Food for thought?

Others might blame Babar's captaincy, questioning if he effectively marshaled our team against a strong Indian lineup. But did he manage to restrict them to a manageable score? Who deserves credit for that achievement?

Then there's the talk about Babar and Rizwan's batting. When will they truly shine against India and become “match winners”? But let's remember, cricket is a team sport. Should the weight of victory solely rest on the shoulders of two batters, or should the entire team share that responsibility? Are there no other batters available in the country?

Some criticize the ever-changing coaching staff and inconsistent selections. Fair point, but isn't Babar the final authority in selections? Haven't we seen a stable team lineup across multiple World Cups?

The debate extends to the structure of our cricket system and PSL selections. But does the number of teams truly affect our performance on the global stage? Is there any evidence for it? Has changing the number of teams changed Pakistani success?

Then others point to the elusive topic of mental strength. Is our team lacking in this department, or is it an overstated concern? Wasn’t India branded as a choker? Didn’t they play this game poorly as well for all the talent at their disposal and just edged past Pakistan?

In this forum, many will criticize the Babar-Rizwan opening duo, arguing they are the root of the problem, despite other supposedly explosive openers like Saim failing to secure their spot.

Others will shift focus to issues with the PCB constitution, the PCB chairman, political connections, and even the Prime Minister. Even the media. But these issues also existed in the 80s and 90s when Pakistan was a better team.

Lastly, some blame the batting, arguing Pakistan isn't producing enough quality batsmen. However, only Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, and Iftikhar have extensive experience in Pakistan's domestic scene as batters. Of those 4, 3 do contribute pretty regularly. Should failures be blamed on the domestic system, or is the issue more complex? How many FC or List A matches have Imad, Shadab, Azam and Usman played as domestic middle order batters? What position has Ifti scored his runs as a domestic batter? What position has Fakhar scored his runs all his life?

Remember, it was just a 5-run difference that separated us from victory. Do we really need to debate all this?

In the end, simplicity could be the solution. Stick to the fundamentals: field 6 specialist batters and 5 dedicated bowlers, ensuring at least one is a specialist spinner. While genuine all-rounders are really not available in Pakistan's current pool, that's acceptable and shouldn't be a deal breaker. Don’t make it worse by playing pseudo all rounders. Attempting to mold Shadab or Imad into a middle-order batter won't change his primary role. It's crucial to assign openers like Fakhar to opening roles and middle-order batsmen like Agha Salman to middle-order positions for optimal team performance. It doesn’t guarantee success but at least it follows common sense.

Let's avoid complicating things and focus on utilizing specialists who have proven their worth in domestic and List A cricket in the role they are being selected for.

Let’s just get the basic right. Leave agendas aside. In the end, the margin was slim, but the solutions may be simpler than we think. Let's keep the conversation constructive and look forward to bouncing back stronger in the next outing!

Bro, no rationale needed, the team is crap and picked on yaari-dosti not merit or suitability.

@Rana is correct when he says once top order is gone the batting folds because we literally have tailenders playing after Fakhar. And then obviously Rizba play T20 like test match heaping even more pressure from the get go.

Look at this middle order - Shadab, Imad, Iftikhar, tells you all you need to know and it showed right in front of you. No hypotheticals or guess work, this is actually what happened.

 

[PakistanMeriJaan]

Main reason we suck is our batting sucks and our batting sucks because we have one of the worst middle orders I’ve ever seen, it’s actually embarrassing.

Is there a single batsmen in our middle/lower order who opponents genuinely fear?

Who is our finisher?

Who is our 6 hitter?

 

[Mamoon]

Bro, no rationale needed, the team is crap and picked on yaari-dosti not merit or suitability.

@Rana is correct when he says once top order is gone the batting folds because we literally have tailenders playing after Fakhar. And then obviously Rizba play T20 like test match heaping even more pressure from the get go.

Look at this middle order - Shadab, Imad, Iftikhar, tells you all you need to know and it showed right in front of you. No hypotheticals or guess work, this is actually what happened.

Rana and correct? The sun will rise from the west the day he is correct. He was the one creaming himself over Imad coming back because he is cool & calm under pressure and exhibits match awareness.

We saw those qualities yesterday.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Nothing was wrong with the pitch. Even the Pakistani coach said the same and poured cold water on this convenient narrative being spun.

If anything, batting got easier in Pakistan's innings. The sun came out and the surface eased up considerably. There wasn't as much lateral movement either.

 

[mominsaigol]

Rana and correct? The sun will rise from the west the day he is correct. He was the one creaming himself over Imad coming back because he is cool & calm under pressure and exhibits match awareness.

We saw those qualities yesterday.

Can you make one comment without insulting someone? This isn't your dad's playground.

You got cremated and owned by a random dude who hacked your account, sit the @^## down

 

[MP2011]

If anything, batting got easier in Pakistan's innings. The sun came out and the surface eased up considerably. There wasn't as much lateral movement either.

Yeah. Pakistan had best of both worlds. They first won a very good toss, then bowled mostly under cloud cover and when it was their turn to bat, sun popped up. But they still managed to fluff it all!

 

[JaDed]

Yeah. Pakistan had best of both worlds. They first won a very good toss, then bowled mostly under cloud cover and when it was their turn to bat, sun popped up. But they still managed to fluff it all!

Yup it wasn’t our day but credit to Indian team kept calm and waited for PCT to implode, Bumrah hinted at the same.

 

[MP2011]

Yup it wasn’t our day but credit to Indian team kept calm and waited for PCT to implode, Bumrah hinted at the same.

If only our selection was better! We might have gone all the way but we won't, not with this geriatric batting lineup.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah. Pakistan had best of both worlds. They first won a very good toss, then bowled mostly under cloud cover and when it was their turn to bat, sun popped up. But they still managed to fluff it all!

I honestly can't even think of another Pak-India match where Pakistan had everything in their favor quite like this. This is why this loss hurts even more than Melbourne 2022.

 

[MP2011]

Also, it wasn't our day because we selected wrong players for yesterday's game.

 

[MP2011]

I honestly can't even think of another Pak-India match where Pakistan had everything in their favor quite like this. This is why this loss hurts even more than Melbourne 2022.

Both these losses will crush anyone's soul. Alright, Pakistan cricketers have become immune to failures of late but spare a thought for their die hard fans!

 

[mominsaigol]

I honestly can't even think of another Pak-India match where Pakistan had everything in their favor quite like this. This is why this loss hurts even more than Melbourne 2022.

I mean the matches that hurt the most is probs 2007 for alot of Pakistani fans, back then both teams were quality and evenly matched in a format that was brand new. And it was a final.

2022 is forgivable as both Pakistan and India in Asia cup has 1-1 win over each other and Pakistan progressed further then India, infact a moral victory is that India got tortured by England.

 

[stani_pak]

I thought no. 3 is reserved to the best batter in the team and you have Usman the hack playing in the most important position. Lets not even talk about Iftikhar and Shadab not worth mentioning or to be in the Pakistan domestic squad.

pretty much this, in an important game, low scoring game, with difficult pitch, ideally babar should have batted at 3, since he decided to open and get out for 13 runs, at that point needed to bring in fakhar zaman, he would have some time to get in and than launch, usman khan looked clueless

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I mean the matches that hurt the most is probs 2007 for alot of Pakistani fans, back then both teams were quality and evenly matched in a format that was brand new. And it was a final.

2022 is forgivable as both Pakistan and India in Asia cup has 1-1 win over each other and Pakistan progressed further then India, infact a moral victory is that India got tortured by England.

I've tried to repress that match from my memory completely. Though I still remember that entire day vividly even today. 2007, 2010 (Oz) and 2011 were all very tough losses to swallow as a fan. But yes, 2007 was a very close match that we should have won. It was more of a see saw battle but by the last few overs Misbah had wrestled back control of the match. And then we got the infamous shot...

2022 you can atleast say that Kohli came out an played an ATG T20 innings.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't care if you are playing on a minefield. 120 is a chasable target even on that. The bowlers did their job, bundling out India inside 19 overs. But damn, did the batting blow it or what. Top-drawer bottling effort. Yeah Bumrah bowled well but still, this should have been chased down.

Old debate, simple answer: Pakistan's batting not very good.

It wasn't even a minefield, Kirsten in his interview afterwards hinted as much when he said the pitch was decent with a tendency to keep low. It looked like the ball was stopping a bit at worst, but you could argue India had the worse conditions after losing the toss and having to bat first.

The major problem with chasing any sort of score is going in with only 3 proven batsmen. Usman Khan was an unknown, Shadab and Imad are bowlers who can hit the odd boundary, and Iftikhar is a pensioner.

 

[MenInG]

Shahid Afridi: Pakistan missed out on a huge opportunity to beat India.

Let’s be honest: 120 was an easily chaseable target. No team has ever defended a lower total at the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup.

Pakistan’s bowling was disciplined and they managed to restrict what is the best batting line-up in the world to just 119.

Post-match, Rohit Sharma admitted that India didn’t bat well enough and the early wickets of the skipper and Virat Kohli brought the game to life.

They are the backbone of the team and removing them cheaply gave Pakistan plenty of momentum.

There has been a lot of talk about the drop-in pitch in New York and the surface was a little slow compared to the batting-friendly pitches we have become accustomed to in T20 cricket.

But the pitch should never be used as an excuse and neither captain did so - they know that top-level professionals should know how to adjust to any conditions.

Pakistan’s bowlers did very well and at the halfway stage, I believed India’s batters were 35 to 40 runs short of where they wanted to be.

In my experience, international cricket and especially the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup is all about handling pressure.

On the big days, you have to have nerves of steel until you make it through.

India stayed positive and calm until the last ball and the pressure of the run chase was not handled well by Babar Azam’s side.

The key difference between the two teams was India’s consistency, self-belief, discipline and attitude on the field.

The Pakistan batting line-up simply isn’t clicking and what we saw was a weak display of power hitting.

For several reasons, this game wasn’t about playing aggressively. But strategy and smart cricket were required to get the run chase over the line, and those qualities are exactly what Pakistan lacked.

India have now won seven of their eight matches against Pakistan at the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup and Pakistan fans are highly disappointed.

First, Pakistan lost to hosts USA in a close game and now they have lost to India when they had only a small total to chase.

The next match is against Canada at Nassau County International Stadium tomorrow and it goes without saying that this is a must-win game.

I think now is the time for Gary Kirsten and Babar Azam to make some changes.

I would like to see Salman Ali Agha come into the side in place of Usman Khan and Abrar Ahmed to come in for Shadab Khan.

Most of all, I believe Fakhar Zaman should be promoted to open the innings alongside Mohammad Rizwan, with Babar dropping down to number three.

There are some tough conversations and choices to come but we need to remember that there is still hope: Pakistan are not out of the tournament yet.

 

[Hyder]

Imad and iftikhar are brain dead. Even consider last 2 overs. 21 runs required and 20 for a tie.

Bumrahs over u can atleast score 6 to 8 runs atleast. And back themselves to score 10 12 against arshdeep.

We ve seen imad try scoops and all that so many times yet when he was unable to clear boundary he didnt for once try to scoop it paddle it or something behind the wicket.

Chacha should just retire. That guy acored 1 run on 4 balls in 19th over. That itself could ve won us the match despite all the **** show in previous overs.

He is so predictable like u can bet on him covering wickets and trying to het towards legside and u ll win every damn time. How on Earth he played 64 t20Is is mindboggling.

Everyone played their part in us losing but these two gave viewers visible frustration. As if they were trying to get out. We need to drop chacha for good now.


Also i ve seen everyone blame babar for his bowling changes and field placements and yet no one appreciated him as his bowling changes field placement all were spit on even when we were going at 8rpo he brought bowlers acc to batsman and managed to get india all out.

 

[GreenKhan]

To put things simply :

Imad and Rizwan faced 69 balls between them and scored only 46 runs . That’s where we lost the game

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Look at SA Bangladesh game... its the pitch guys. Pakistan was never in the game

 

[NeVerMind]

To put things simply :

Imad and Rizwan faced 69 balls between them and scored only 46 runs . That’s where we lost the game

What about Chacha who has been playing cricket, probably, since the previous century? He got three juicy full tosses, including a free hit and could not even clear the inner circle? At least Riz and Imad (no excuses for yesterday though) have won us matches in the past...when has Chacha ever won us a match? I bet, bar that useless match against Nepal, he has never won a MoM award!

 

[Croma]

Look at SA Bangladesh game... its the pitch guys. Pakistan was never in the game

Bangladesh need 29 runs in 28 balls. Closer than Pakistan game

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Bangladesh need 29 runs in 28 balls. Closer than Pakistan game

Bangladesh batters doing better and SA bowlers just going full pace. They need to use the pitch

 

[JaDed]

Look at SA Bangladesh game... its the pitch guys. Pakistan was never in the game

? BD batsmen seem to have more IQ than PCT ones right now

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Look at SA Bangladesh game... its the pitch guys. Pakistan was never in the game

Except Bangladesh have played this exceptionally against a superior attack. Chasing a little less but Pakistan were out of the game after 13 overs. Diabolical

 

[Croma]

Bangladesh batters doing better and SA bowlers just going full pace. They need to use the pitch

Bangladesh might botch this...lol

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Bangladesh might botch this...lol

They did botch haha.. against laddu full toss bowling

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Yeah. Pakistan had best of both worlds. They first won a very good toss, then bowled mostly under cloud cover and when it was their turn to bat, sun popped up. But they still managed to fluff it all!

It doesn't matter. It's psychology. If India had got 75 we'd have got 70. We are just timid, cowardly and a failure of a people.