Did Pakistan miss a trick by not playing a 4th seamer and going for an extra batter?

[Grunge101]

We clearly misjudged it today. Going with the extra safety of an added batsman and dropping Hasnain/Waseem.

This is not a pitch for spinners, we saw that clearly in the Indian innings. They had the luxury of an extra seamer making up for Patel's overs, we didn't. Shadab was lucky to get away with atleast a couple of balls in his last over and right now I don't know how we will get the last one out of Nawaz.

How exactly is having that extra batsman benefitting us?

 

[Major]

nope, Shaheen bowled crap. It was shaheen who messed it up along with Babar.

Babar had used nawaz upfront , the last over could had been bowled by pacer, infact the last yovers could had been bowled by the pacers, issue is babars captaincy.

he left nawaz for the last over for dumb reasons. He gives away full tosses and extras, and we lost the game

 

[Markhor]

No point blaming Nawaz - we boxed ourselves into a corner with our selection.

If you don't play a 4th seamer on a green tinged pitch and with an unfit pacer, when will you ?

 

[hamzie]

i still think chacha shouldve boweld last over
nawaz shouldnt have had a 4th

 

[Savak]

Too much defensiveness in the Pakistani think tank. What will an extra batsman do in T20 Cricket?

 

[IAJ]

Yes they did.

Could easily have played Mohammad Wasim here instead of Haider or Asif Ali.

India got their team-selection right and you have to alway have 6-7 bowlers in the line up. 6 frontline and 1 who can bowl, like Iftikhar.

And really stupid not to bowl Ifitikhar when you have him in the team, especially when Nawaz was taken to the cleaners in his third over.

 

[Major]

nope, Shaheen bowled crap. It was shaheen who messed it up along with Babar.

Babar had used nawaz upfront , the last over could had been bowled by pacer, infact the last yovers could had been bowled by the pacers, issue is babars captaincy.

he left nawaz for the last over for dumb reasons. He gives away full tosses and extras, and we lost the game

 

[sweep_shot]

Playing 2 spinners at MCG is useless. Should've gone with 4 pacers.

 

[IAJ]

Yes they did.

Could easily have played Mohammad Wasim here instead of Haider or Asif Ali.

India got their team-selection right and you have to alway have 6-7 bowlers in the line up. 6 frontline and 1 who can bowl, like Iftikhar.

And really stupid not to bowl Ifitikhar when you have him in the team, especially when Nawaz was taken to the cleaners in his third over.

 

[D/DAhmed]

For goodness sake, all I want for this management to realize is that Asif Ali gives us nothing on these pitches. Literally Mohammad Abbas would probably score more runs. Mohd Wasim Jr demonstrated batting talent, and to be honest if he can score anything above 5, with the extra bowling option he provides he's worth his weight in gold. Asif is nothing but a fraud, only good for 1-2 lucky hits in the subcontinent and worse than a tailender on these wickets. That fraud of a batsman lost us the match today

 

[bones]

We have two passengers in our batting line-up. So no harm in replacing one of the passengers.

 

[Asif321]

Asif Ali waste of spot. Get wasim in . Would have been different story if we had seamer today

 

[Marooned]

100%. That's where the match was lost and I called this in 1st innings.

We were greatly handicapped by it and it isn't the 1st time either. 4 seamers are a must for balance especially in unfamiliar conditions like these.

 

[mumtaz]

Two mistakes today.

Not playing Wasim jnr over Asif Ali.

Sending Shadab instead of Nawaz at #5.

 

[Marooned]

We simply can't rely on 4 overs of finger spin in Australia.

Obviously our TM is too thick to foresee these things but hopefully they realize it now.

 

[Extra_Cover]

This is a no brainer. We should play Waseem in place of either Asif or Haider. There is no point playing a batsman who couldn't bat. We need to extract more runs from Nawaz the batsman as he is way more capable bat than these so called batsmen.

Secondly, we need Fakhar in this line-up. I don't mind if he bats at 5 or so. At any position he is so much of an uplift over the likes of Haider and Asif.

 

[Extra_Cover]

This is a no brainer. We should play Waseem in place of either Asif or Haider. There is no point playing a batsman who couldn't bat. We need to extract more runs from Nawaz the batsman as he is way more capable bat than these so called batsmen.

Secondly, we need Fakhar in this line-up. I don't mind if he bats at 5 or so. At any position he is so much of an uplift over the likes of Haider and Asif.

 

[hitthestump]

If we needed extra spin overs then Iftikhar can do the job perfectly well.

Going forward now Nawaz should be benched for Mohammad Wasim.

 

[Ahmed216]

If we needed extra spin overs then Iftikhar can do the job perfectly well.

Going forward now Nawaz should be benched for Mohammad Wasim.

Nawaz is a better batsman compared to asif ali. Asif should be dropped for Wasim

 

[sam_ahm]

I thought so, a 6th bowling option is so important in cricket, it always comes in handy, esp against a team like India who play spin so well.

Imagine Axar having to bowl another 3 overs after going for 21 in his first, but India had Pandya. Pakistan's middle order will do pretty much the same with or without an extra batter... It is much better to play a 4th pacer instead. Moreover Wasim can anyhow bat a bit.

 

[Third Man]

I was shocked to see they didn't pick Waseem on this pitch. The selection for the next match is quite simple, really. Asif goes out and Waseem comes in.

 

[gazza619]

Yes yes yes

Even when we were winning i was saying play an extra seamer in place of Asif Ali

 

[hitthestump]

Nawaz is a better batsman compared to asif ali. Asif should be dropped for Wasim

You always feel Asif has something in his locker though. I would keep him in the side but i see your point.

 

[Saurav]

Yes, with Shaheen not a 100% they could have got a seamer

 

[amvbfm]

Any team management having even a shred of sensibility, looking at Asif and Haider's record and Wasim's display in the warm-up against England would have picked the latter. He can easily play the role Asif plays in the team and provide you with a quality back up bowling option. Whether that would have changed today's result is debatable, but there should be no two opinions about the fact that it is our best option.

 

[Grunge101]

It shouldn't have come to this.

Hasnain has bowled excellent spells with the new ball in recent times. I'm positive he would have performed well on this pitch, completing his overs before the death.

What exactly is the extra bastman doing for us ?. With Shadab and Nawaz pushed up the order, there really is no point having a specialist batsman come in at 8.

One also has to understand that today was an oddity in the way both the openers got out early. Most of the time, you'll have one or both of them go to overs 12-15. Why exactly do we need another batsman in that situation. If the 5 in the middle order can't survive 8 overs, what will a 6th do?

 

[amvbfm]

This is a no brainer. We should play Waseem in place of either Asif or Haider. There is no point playing a batsman who couldn't bat. We need to extract more runs from Nawaz the batsman as he is way more capable bat than these so called batsmen.

Secondly, we need Fakhar in this line-up. I don't mind if he bats at 5 or so. At any position he is so much of an uplift over the likes of Haider and Asif.

Asif and Haider need to be replaced with Fakhar and Wasim. That would be our best eleven from this squad.

 

[Jazx]

Asif should be dropped for Wasim. Shaheen already did the job of asif which he is expected to do in last 2 overs. And anyone else also can hit those flukes for which asif is occopying a place in team. And even fakhar can be considered in place of haider to strengthen the batting.

 

[Kianig89]

The strategy whatever Saqlain and Moyo had just nosedived the world know after babar and Rizwan Nawaz is the best batter yet they send him down the order at 6 or 7, Asif Ali is garbage its proven everywhere still they persist with him, Nawaz is a risky bowler yet they consider him full time Babar as skipper is so predictable when it comes to bowling changes yet he has 6x6=36 mindset of bowling spinners consecutively, glaring mistakes by mgmt. Let's not talk about the conjuring Hayden is having playing against SA is a virtual eliminator provided we beat all the minnows

 

[Savak]

The way Kohli was batting, it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Grunge101]

I wouldve planned the bowling overs this way

Opening spell : Shaheen and Naseem
First change : Rauf and Hasnain.

Hasnain should be bowledd out before the 16th over.
That way you have

a) 3 new ball options in Shaheen, Naseem and Hasnain
b) 3 death options in Rauf, Shaheen and Naseem
c) the luxury of not having to bowl a bowler that's gone for plenty. Eg India with Patel today

 

[ask_analyse_act]

No point blaming Nawaz - we boxed ourselves into a corner with our selection.

If you don't play a 4th seamer on a green tinged pitch and with an unfit pacer, when will you ?

Thats the mentality of friendship, nothing explains why Asif ali is playing (just to hit bouncers with helmet) he is clearly not cut for international...

Only in Pak , players like Asif Ali can play 50 T20I...

 

[Grunge101]

The way Kohli was batting, it wouldn't have made a difference.

I would disagree. Kohli was magnificent but it took an unfit Shaheen and then not having the option of a 6th bowler for the last over to take India over the line.

If we had that 6th bowler option, we would have had Rauf or Naseem bowling the last over. Theres a very good chance Kohli would've hit a boundary or two but still fall short of the 16 run mark

 

[Ozeirk]

We are over analyzing. This could have been anyone's game considering how close it was. There is nothing between the teams and if we are to meet again it could go either way.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

No point blaming Nawaz - we boxed ourselves into a corner with our selection.

If you don't play a 4th seamer on a green tinged pitch and with an unfit pacer, when will you ?

Thats the mentality of friendship, nothing explains why Asif ali is playing (just to hit bouncers with helmet) he is clearly not cut for international...

Only in Pak , players like Asif Ali can play 50 T20I...

 

[ask_analyse_act]

We are over analyzing. This could have been anyone's game considering how close it was. There is nothing between the teams and if we are to meet again it could go either way.

Pakistan allowed them to drag it closer.. Top teams and good captains would have knocked them over easily..

Look at Rohit.. When Axar got hit, he simply took him and the spinners outta the attack, had the luxury to bowl hardik.. Pakistan cant rethink and scared to bowl him out instead kept him for the last over..

Babar is just a paper plan captain, cant assess or read the game to pull off wins or go for the kill...

But Pakistan select Asif ali for so many matches to hit the ball with helmet..
What a sight that was 2 matches in a row..

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Basically Asif Ali and Haider are walking wickets. We should replace them with Fakhar and a fast bowler. Mohammad Wasim or even Hasnain perhaps. Wasim can bat a bit so probably him.

 

[shamaan]

I think picking both Shadab and Nawaz was the correct decision both play as bowling all rounders

 

[bones]

We are over analyzing. This could have been anyone's game considering how close it was. There is nothing between the teams and if we are to meet again it could go either way.

Actually we're not over analysing. The Indians knew we had overs from the spiners in the bag so they were banking on them. If we had the 4th seamer, we would have still score 160 because Asif and Haider are utterly useless but we would have had cushion bowling knowing overs 15-20 would have been bowled by seamers.

 

[shamaan]

Asif needs to be dropped for Fakhar

 

[Savak]

The thing is Mohd Wasim Jr bowls a very predictable line, length with his slingy action. He has proven to be very poor at the death. A batsman of the quality of Kohli would have eventually lined him up.

Even Hasnain has proven to be unreliable at the death.

 

[Ozeirk]

Pakistan allowed them to drag it closer.. Top teams and good captains would have knocked them over easily..

Look at Rohit.. When Axar got hit, he simply took him and the spinners outta the attack, had the luxury to bowl hardik.. Pakistan cant rethink and scared to bowl him out instead kept him for the last over..

Babar is just a paper plan captain, cant assess or read the game to pull off wins or go for the kill...

But Pakistan select Asif ali for so many matches to hit the ball with helmet..
What a sight that was 2 matches in a row..

I feel Nawaz in the last over could not control his nerves. After taking Hardiks wicket instead of gaining in confidence he started bowling bad deliveries, wides and no balls. That no ball changed the game or else Pakistan was going to win it. I will say again there is nothing between the teams.

 

[Ozeirk]

Actually we're not over analysing. The Indians knew we had overs from the spiners in the bag so they were banking on them. If we had the 4th seamer, we would have still score 160 because Asif and Haider are utterly useless but we would have had cushion bowling knowing overs 15-20 would have been bowled by seamers.

These things are easier in retrospect. I can totally understand why Pakistan went with spinners in this game. The same spinners won us the game against India in Asia Cup. I know the pitches are different but then we saw what Afghan spinners did in the last game.

There is nothing between the teams. Pakistan played well and I hope they continue to play hard in the coming matches. We may as well meet India again in this world Cup.

 

[Fenrir]

Wasim jnr should play in all of the remaining games.Asif Ali should be dropped for good.Wasim is a better batsman than Asif.Pakistan desperately need a fast bowling allrounder.PCB wasted time by sticking with Asif and Khushdil.It should have invested in a medium pacer/fast allrounder.I don’t believe there are no allrounders in Pakistan.PCB should send scouts to different areas to find one.They can hold a talent hunt for fast bowling allrounders.

 

[dildilpak]

I say it again. A spinner has no business bowling a waist-high no ball or any no-ball for that matter, but probably the pressure got to him.

And never in favor of packing an extra batsman. What seven cant do, the eighth will rarely be able to do. Just shows how underconfident the team is regarding its lower order batting abilities.

 

[Ab Fan]

Against teams like India and Pakistan, better to go with 4 pacers + 1 spinner + 1 all rounder. Both teams are better basher of spin than pace.

 

[sweep_shot]

Against teams like India and Pakistan, better to go with 4 pacers + 1 spinner + 1 all rounder. Both teams are better basher of spin than pace.

2 spinners are good in Asia.

But, probably not okay at MCG.

 

[happydavy]

I would disagree. Kohli was magnificent but it took an unfit Shaheen and then not having the option of a 6th bowler for the last over to take India over the line.

If we had that 6th bowler option, we would have had Rauf or Naseem bowling the last over. Theres a very good chance Kohli would've hit a boundary or two but still fall short of the 16 run mark

It was destiny for Kohli to win this match, he himself said something similar. The 2 sixes he hit off Haris Rauf were extraordinary, i am sure he can't hit those even in nets. He just swatted the first one and it kept going and going and second one he just went with the line. Things happen at times, when you end up doing something bizarre which u can't plan.

 

[ethan hunt]

Yes, fatal on that MCG track. Poor reading of the conditions.

 

[Local.Dada]

Shaheen is a very good bowler but the hype after that previous game was created like he was some Malcom Marshall re-incarnate.

He had a great opening spell that Amir had, Boult had and 5 other left armers have had against India.

I think the hype kind of affected India too as he was there for the taking today in all overs but they played him out and it effected Pakistan too as they had to play him with half-fitness. One thing I will give him credit for is he stayed on the field throughout instead of walking out when things were not going in his favor.

 

[bones]

These things are easier in retrospect. I can totally understand why Pakistan went with spinners in this game. The same spinners won us the game against India in Asia Cup. I know the pitches are different but then we saw what Afghan spinners did in the last game.

There is nothing between the teams. Pakistan played well and I hope they continue to play hard in the coming matches. We may as well meet India again in this world Cup.

I promise you, I was thinking about this call and hoping that Babar would be brave enough to make it today. After 10 balls of our innings I know it would come to hurt us. Many others also felt that way.

If they had picked Hasnain which I had hoped for, it might have failed, he might have got smashed, but given that every other seamer was doing well today, the chances of him doing worse than Nawaz were low.

I hope Pakistan drop Haider and Asif and make the brave decision of bringing in the extra seamer and Fakhar.

Pakistan missed the chance to try this tactic in NZ.

 

[Runner Up]

Yes. I think Pakistan have enough batters and Asif or Haider can be dropped.

 

[Rana]

They needed a pace bowling all rounder like Jamal or Ashraf

 

[shokz1408]

I thought that, Mohammed wasim instead of Nawaz might have made the difference in the end.

 

[deems]

Yes,drop 150 sixes a day and play Wasim JR. He can't do worse with the bat than Asif.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Said it a month ago that we need to play 4 pacers in Australia. 6 overs of spin are enough especially against Asian teams. Wasim should come in for one of Haider or Asif.

Shaheen is quite rusty. His pace was down a bit. Swing wasn't there.

 

[IMMY69]

In Australia we definitely need four seamers.
Especially if we play on tracks like today

With four fast bowlers I would actually ask Shaheen to bowl three or maybe all four overs up front.

 

[Grunge101]

The thing is Mohd Wasim Jr bowls a very predictable line, length with his slingy action. He has proven to be very poor at the death. A batsman of the quality of Kohli would have eventually lined him up.

Even Hasnain has proven to be unreliable at the death.

I don't rate Wasim at all so actually agree with that assessment. That slingy action will just have batsmen waiting on the backfoot and lining him up over midwicket

Which is why I would definitely prefer Hasnain over him. I think he's been hard done by lately. He played regularly until the start of the NZ series which he missed the bulk of with illness and then was played for one match only and then dropped.

I'm his last 10 games Hasnain had bowled his opening two overs at an ER of 7.3 and picked up a wicket on average every time. His death spells weren't that good tho which is why I would bowl him out before that phase of innings.

 

[PakHammer]

You would hope with the flack the Pakistan think tank are getting, they will make the logical and sensible change for the next few games:

IN: Mohammed Wasim
OUT: Asif Ali

 

[moghul]

Asif is totally useless , even the way he got out to a 132 kph ball was shameful for a "batsman" , even a tailender could have played it better .

Yes, play Waseem Jr for him.

 

[chinaman00]

The bigger culprit is Haider who has been given a very long rope yet continues to fail every time. It’s abundantly clear Haider is no international material, but good connections and good looks take you very far in Pakistan.

 

[samiakh]

Absolutely! Wasim for Asif or Haider any day.

 

[Kianig89]

There's a saying in sport play to your strength everybody knows we have 4-5 good international quality seamers why play atleast 4 of them and try to take 10 wickets rather to contain the opposition and play with a defeatist mindset,
Even if you 10 rubbish batsman it ain't serve any purpose Selection committee should be given a donky ride for some bizarre and influenced selection what purpose is Khusdil serving in the squad why are doing the Asif Ali experiment over and over and expecting different results, idiocy has no limits.
Hopefully Hayden will give them a pep Talk, Ramiz needs to lock Saqi and Moyo in an Islamic Centre in Melbourne and hand over the reigns to Hayden& Tait

Hayden and Tait should be the supreme authority and have the right to veto cow captain Babar team should be

Riz
Fakhar
Shan
Babar
Nawaz
Iftikhar
Shadab
WasimJr
Rauf
Naseem
Hasnain

Shaheen seems unfit so purpose carrying him in fact inquiry should be held that forged his reports and selected him, Haider and Asif are not international material should only be used for carrying towels and drinks.

Our strength is fast bowling and the idea should be to have attacking lengths while bowling pacers and to go with the mission of taking 10 wickets win or lose is part of game.

It's very clear what Saqlain and Moyo are trying to do ain't gonna work enough sample size now SF Aus 21, Asia Cup 22, Eng Series 22 and the Now Mcg game

 

[PakLFC]

Don't know why we always need to play two spinners. Sometimes five pacers would be the way to go.

 

[Inswing]

IF shaheen was in rhythm we could have won, the whole match was made by naseem and rauf.

 

[Madplayer]

Pakistan's 5 bowlers only strategy is extremely risky

Over the past year or so, Pakistan has been going with the same combo of 3 pacers and 2 spinners in Shadab and Nawaz. The spinners also bat a bit which helps with balancing the side.

However, the strategy is extremely risky. In case even one bowler has an off day, they have no 6th bowling option to fall back on. Iftikhar cannot be called a 6th bowling option in a t20.

Now, Pakistan lacks a Pandya type medium pace all rounder to fill the void. And in Australian conditions, you would prefer a medium pacer as a 6th bowler rather than a spinner.

So what to do?

Only one option left - Replace Asif Ali with Muhammad Waseem Jr.

Muhammad Waseer Jr. has shown the ability with the bat and gives you a 6th bowling option as well in the shape of a genuine fast bowler. He can tonk the ball for sixes too. And can do no worse than Asif with the bat.

We know how Asif performs once in a blue moon. Even a bowler can do that. If both Asif and Waseem can hit 2-3 sixes once in every 10 matches, then at least Waseem can bowl pace and be of more use.

Waseem must replace Asif and give Pakistan a 6th bowling option.

Thoughts?

 

[sweep_shot]

I think 6th (and even 7th) bowling option is vital in T20.

I definitely think Asif can be dropped for Waseem or Imad.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan needed a proper pace bowling all-rounder like Faheem or Amir Jamal in the squad

Faheem replacing Asif would be ideal, or even Haider can be replaced by him.

 

[Madplayer]

I think 6th (and even 7th) bowling option is vital in T20.

I definitely think Asif can be dropped for Waseem or Imad.

Asif has contributed nothing. Even a bowler can hit 2 sixes in a match after every 10-15 games. That means nothing. Waseem should replace him immediately in this WC.

 

[hitthestump]

We already have Iftikhar.

Khushdil and Fakhar can also bowl.

Babar generally refuses to use anything other than 5 bowlers and saves the last 6 overs for pace regardless of the situation.

 

[sweep_shot]

Asif has contributed nothing. Even a bowler can hit 2 sixes in a match after every 10-15 games. That means nothing. Waseem should replace him immediately in this WC.

Indeed.

Even Naseem hit two sixes to win the game against the Afghans.

 

[Madplayer]

Pakistan needed a proper pace bowling all-rounder like Faheem or Amir Jamal in the squad

Faheem replacing Asif would be ideal, or even Haider can be replaced by him.

Faheem has failed badly in county recently. Amir Jamal would be there after the WC. But right now waseem should replace Asif.

5 bowling options means no cushion.

 

[Madplayer]

Indeed.

Even Naseem hit two sixes to win the game against the Afghans.

True. And Shaheen did it today.

 

[Madplayer]

We already have Iftikhar.

Khushdil and Fakhar can also bowl.

Babar generally refuses to use anything other than 5 bowlers and saves the last 6 overs for pace regardless of the situation.

These guys are part timers who will be taken to the cleaners in today-like situation. 6th bowling option has to be genuine. Like Waseem or Amir Jamal or even Imad. But he should be able to bat a bit too.

 

[Madplayer]

Just a suggestion for the mods. Please keep the title given by me as the thread title. It is more relevant and broad because it goes beyond today's game. Thanks.

 

[kingusama92]

I think they had a 50-50 call due to the pitch.

Either they would add the pacer or strengthen the batting order to avoid getting blown away on a potentially tough wicket. They went with the longer batting lineup due to how unconvincing the middle order has been.

This is what happens when you are unsure about everyone after the openers. It always makes you defensive with your strategy.

Nawaz is a decent batsman and they should treat him as a 6th bowling option in the lineup. He should never be a part of the main five in Australia.

 

[TeamPak95]

Two mistakes today.

Not playing Wasim jnr over Asif Ali.

Sending Shadab instead of Nawaz at #5.

I agree with this more than the second point. Wasim Jr. would've been more useful here in these conditions than Nawaz.

Nawaz, being more of the aggressor than Shadab as a batsman, could've easily gotten out in the exact same fashion as Shadab did today.

 

[Markhor]

I think they had a 50-50 call due to the pitch.

Either they would add the pacer or strengthen the batting order to avoid getting blown away on a potentially tough wicket. They went with the longer batting lineup due to how unconvincing the middle order has been.

This is what happens when you are unsure about everyone after the openers. It always makes you defensive with your strategy.

Nawaz is a decent batsman and they should treat him as a 6th bowling option in the lineup. He should never be a part of the main five in Australia.

To be honest with Asif Ali's current form, Mohammad Wasim would probably offer more with the bat.

Feels a waste to play a specialist batsman at #8. And in T20 cricket, you just cannot get away with 5 bowlers, especially if one (Shaheen) isn't fully matchfit.

 

[Saj]

To be honest with Asif Ali's current form, Mohammad Wasim would probably offer more with the bat.

Feels a waste to play a specialist batsman at #8. And in T20 cricket, you just cannot get away with 5 bowlers, especially if one (Shaheen) isn't fully matchfit.

Very true and in fact Waseem is probably just as good in the field as Asif Ali.

 

[Savak]

Should Pakistan gamble with 5 pacers in this WC?

Pakistan needs to find a way to play 5 pacers. We just don't have the batting for these conditions. Need to drop Asif for sure and get Wasim Jr in.

If you really want to go with a fearless positive not scared to lose approach then get Hasnain in the team and make him bowl his full quota up front and tell him nothing less than 148 km/hr.

If you will not use your 144 km/hr pacers in Australia then where will you use them? Take a gamble and attack with your bowling. Get Shadab and Nawaz up the order, drop the extra one to two batsmen who are doing nothing on these wickets.

The only way Pakistan will be any where close to competitive in this competition will be to strive for wickets throughout the 20 overs.

I don't see any other way for this squad