Did Ravichandaran Ashwin's MOM speech hint towards dressing room issues?

[LowKiiSavage]

When Sanjay Manjrekar interviewed him, Ashwin said something in the line of "There is more honesty to express oneself in dressing room and meetings, and he started saying something about in past (during Dhoni's time) and cut himself and said dont want to talk about the past, but more honesty allowed now in meetings and dressing room".

Is Ashwin playing the dressing room politics by sucking up to Kohli or is he trying to undermine Dhoni here?

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Video:

 

[Strike Rate]

Dhoni always backed Ashwin so i don't think he will undermine Dhoni as a captain after all the favors he and jaddu enjoyed under Dhoni.

 

[Hawkeye]

Ashwin shouldn't point out Dhoni like that.

I remember some other cricketer said something along the same lines earlier, implying they are more 'free' now and can speak their minds under Kohli.

It was a bowler from what I can recall.

 

[Ab Fan]

MOM or MOS???

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Dhoni always backed Ashwin so i don't think he will undermine Dhoni as a captain after all the favors he and jaddu enjoyed under Dhoni.

Ashwin seems like the clever politician type. Knows which cards to play and when.

Ashwin shouldn't point out Dhoni like that.

I remember some other cricketer said something along the same lines earlier, implying they are more 'free' now and can speak their minds under Kohli.

It was a bowler from what I can recall.

It was the spray gun yadav. Can expect him to be disrespectful to an ATG of the game.

MOM or MOS???

MOM.

 

[Statsman]

Ashwin shouldn't point out Dhoni like that.

I remember some other cricketer said something along the same lines earlier, implying they are more 'free' now and can speak their minds under Kohli.

It was a bowler from what I can recall.

Probably Umesh Yadav, who is a crappy bowler himself.

 

[shaz619]

Great news! I hope dressing room politics consume India if what he says is true

 

[#GreenRoars]

Don't think so, he is good friend of Dhoni and Dhoni backed him always.

 

[Hasan123]

He is just comparing there leadership styles I don't think he is trying to undermine ms. Ms backed him a lot.

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] I remember you mentioning something about this before about how things will be when Kohli is the captain in LO

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Great news! I hope dressing room politics consume India if what he says is true

That is such a savage comment to make.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

He is just comparing there leadership styles I don't think he is trying to undermine ms. Ms backed him a lot.

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] I remember you mentioning something about this before about how things will be when Kohli is the captain in LO

SIF is a big time Dhoni hater. I do not expect anything unbiased from him when it comes to Dhoni.

 

[Hawkeye]

It was the spray gun yadav. Can expect him to be disrespectful to an ATG of the game.
.

Probably Umesh Yadav, who is a crappy bowler himself.

What does Yadav or Ashwin criticizing Dhoni has to do with him being 'ATG'? Which he isn't in the first place.

Dhoni was well known as someone who can't use the bowlers. Particularly fast bowlers, and Yadav/Aaron not being able to fulfill their potential also has to do with Dhoni.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

What does Yadav or Ashwin criticizing Dhoni has to do with him being 'ATG'? Which he isn't in the first place.

Dhoni was well known as someone who can't use the bowlers. Particularly fast bowlers, and Yadav/Aaron not being able to fulfill their potential also has to do with Dhoni.

LOL. Dhoni isnt an ATG? Give me a break.

Who is an ATG then, misbah?

So, what potential have the two spray guns filled after his departure in tests?

 

[Hasan123]

SIF is a big time Dhoni hater. I do not expect anything unbiased from him when it comes to Dhoni.

He isn't a hater. He's just saying what the problem is with Dhoni that's all.

 

[Hawkeye]

LOL. Dhoni isnt an ATG? Give me a break.

Who is an ATG then, misbah?

So, what potential have the two spray guns filled after his departure in tests?

You're going on a different path, so won't take the bait.

People knew things weren't going right under Dhoni, he was a poor tactician and mostly clueless in Tests. And in ODIs too couldn't handle Yadav/Aaron.

So, they're right to criticize him, however, saying it publicly creates politics.

 

[Statsman]

What does Yadav or Ashwin criticizing Dhoni has to do with him being 'ATG'? Which he isn't in the first place.

Dhoni was well known as someone who can't use the bowlers. Particularly fast bowlers, and Yadav/Aaron not being able to fulfill their potential also has to do with Dhoni.

You really think Yadav and Aaron will be able to "fulfill their potential" after Dhoni's exit?

Virat himself dropped Yadav after 2 games in WI and reaped greater benefit from having Bhuvi in the team and Dhoni was accused to favoring "trundlers" over phassst bowlers.

Yadav has only himself to blame. As a fast bowler if you can't get your line and length right even after years of International cricket then no captain or his so called backing can save you. Same goes for Aaron.

 

[Hawkeye]

He isn't a hater. He's just saying what the problem is with Dhoni that's all.

Correct.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

He isn't a hater. He's just saying what the problem is with Dhoni that's all.

No, SIF rarely praises Dhoni and always finds issues with him. He is normally a very fair poster but no one is perfect.

 

[Hasan123]

No, SIF rarely praises Dhoni and always finds issues with him. He is normally a very fair poster but no one is perfect.

I am a big fan of Dhoni but he has made some bizzare decisions in the last year or 2

 

[Hawkeye]

You really think Yadav and Aaron will be able to "fulfill their potential" after Dhoni's exit?

Virat himself dropped Yadav after 2 games in WI and reaped greater benefit from having Bhuvi in the team and Dhoni was accused to favoring "trundlers" over phassst bowlers.

Yadav has only himself to blame. As a fast bowler if you can't get your line and length right even after years of International cricket then no captain or his so called backing can save you. Same goes for Aaron.

We have our spraygun too in Wahab.

But Misbah knows how to use him in Tests. And he does the job that's required of him, to attack in short patches. Leaks runs too, but gives us those breakthroughs/breaks partnerships.

Aaron/Yadav would've eventually learned if used properly.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

He is just comparing there leadership styles I don't think he is trying to undermine ms. Ms backed him a lot.

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] I remember you mentioning something about this before about how things will be when Kohli is the captain in LO

1. I can't watch this video cos it says its not available. Dunno why.

2. OP seems to be lurking too much in Indian forums (using the same words of 1 poster..lololol) and yet he mentions only one part of the viewpoint as to this being a comparison between Dhoni/Kohli and not Shastri/Kumble.

3. Personally I don't know what's what cos I didn't watch the video.

4. Dhoni-Ashwin relationship has always been fractured. Right from IPL days to even during 2011 WC where Dhoni made ridiculous excuses to drop Ashwin (practice games, main games - even after he performed). People think Dhoni backed Ashwin through and through. That's not 100% true. Dhoni did back him later on after Ashwin proved himself and was consistently better than his options. But before that, be it IPL or main XI....Ashwin had to fight tooth and nail to be in the team (inspite of being better than his options).

5. Respect for Dhoni was always there but but Ashwin overall doesn't love Dhoni and neither does Dhoni. Its just an illusion Ashwin is Dhoni's trusted man.

6. I won't be surprised if Ashwin plays politics. He is a capable of that. But in this case, I dunno cos I haven't watched the video.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

You're going on a different path, so won't take the bait.

People knew things weren't going right under Dhoni, he was a poor tactician and mostly clueless in Tests. And in ODIs too couldn't handle Yadav/Aaron.

So, they're right to criticize him, however, saying it publicly creates politics.

Yeah, in ODIs Dhoni couldnt handle bowlers but ended up winning a world cup and a champions trophy and countless tournaments. Something a certain someone couldnt even manage in 5 years of captaincy.

Oh and tests? The same tests where he led his team to number 1 ranking, twice?

Aaron and Yadav are not even fit to clean the shoes of Dhoni, let alone criticize him.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Name 1 point about Dhoni that I make which is unfair.

lol.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin is a future legend of the game.

There is no reason why he should be disrespectful to any senior player.

 

[Hasan123]

1. I can't watch this video cos it says its not available. Dunno why.

2. OP seems to be lurking too much in Indian forums (using the same words of 1 poster..lololol) and yet he mentions only one part of the viewpoint as to this being a comparison between Dhoni/Kohli and not Shastri/Kumble.

3. Personally I don't know what's what cos I didn't watch the video.

4. Dhoni-Ashwin relationship has always been fractured. Right from IPL days to even during 2011 WC where Dhoni made ridiculous excuses to drop Ashwin (practice games, main games - even after he performed). People think Dhoni backed Ashwin through and through. That's not 100% true. Dhoni did back him later on after Ashwin proved himself and was consistently better than his options. But before that, be it IPL or main XI....Ashwin had to fight tooth and nail to be in the team (inspite of being better than his options).

5. Respect for Dhoni was always there but but Ashwin overall doesn't love Dhoni and neither does Dhoni. Its just an illusion Ashwin is Dhoni's trusted man.

6. I won't be surprised if Ashwin plays politics. He is a capable of that. But in this case, I dunno cos I haven't watched the video.

I think for the most part he has backed Ashwin. I mean he has basically ditched Harbajaan for Ashwin.

Doubt weather Ashwin is capable of politics.

 

[cricketpatzer]

Great news! I hope dressing room politics consume India if what he says is true

Don't get excited. You have lost the last 4 times you have played India. The rate at which Indian players are improving, you are likely to lose most of the next 400.

 

[Statsman]

We have our spraygun too in Wahab.

But Misbah knows how to use him in Tests. And he does the job that's required of him, to attack in short patches. Leaks runs too, but gives us those breakthroughs/breaks partnerships.

Aaron/Yadav would've eventually learned if used properly.

Wahab is poor and does not deserve a spot in the Pakistani bowling line up (outside Australia). He averages 35 in tests and 32 in ODIs. Same goes for Mohammad Sami. I am sure once Misbah gets a better option he will replace Wahab.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think for the most part he has backed Ashwin. I mean he has basically ditched Harbajaan for Ashwin.

Doubt weather Ashwin is capable of politics.

Ashwin SHOVED Bhajji away and then Dhoni backed a guy who was doing well. Yes, he later backed him in 2012 period where he was struggling but then he was still one of the most reliable options. See what happ in 2011 WC when Ashwin was outbowling Bhajji.

Ashwin is not the classy guy he presents to the outside world. I have close friends who know him very well.

Dhoni is not the cool guy he presents to the outside world.

Still in terms of outward behavior and class Dhoni >>>> Ashwin but when it comes to honesty....I would take Ashwin >>>> Dhoni.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Ashwin SHOVED Bhajji away and then Dhoni backed a guy who was doing well. Yes, he later backed him in 2012 period where he was struggling but then he was still one of the most reliable options. See what happ in 2011 WC when Ashwin was outbowling Bhajji.

Ashwin is not the classy guy he presents to the outside world. I have close friends who know him very well.

Dhoni is not the cool guy he presents to the outside world.

Still in terms of outward behavior and class Dhoni >>>> Ashwin but when it comes to honesty....I would take Ashwin >>>> Dhoni.

Can you tell us more about this? You have got me curious.

 

[Hasan123]

Ashwin SHOVED Bhajji away and then Dhoni backed a guy who was doing well. Yes, he later backed him in 2012 period where he was struggling but then he was still one of the most reliable options. See what happ in 2011 WC when Ashwin was outbowling Bhajji.

Ashwin is not the classy guy he presents to the outside world. I have close friends who know him very well.

Dhoni is not the cool guy he presents to the outside world.

Still in terms of outward behavior and class Dhoni >>>> Ashwin but when it comes to honesty....I would take Ashwin >>>> Dhoni.

Ashwin seems like an honest guy when you read his comments and tweets at times so not suprised you admire his honesty. Hope for your guys sake there is no issue and camps in the dressing room.

 

[shaz619]

Don't get excited. You have lost the last 4 times you have played India. The rate at which Indian players are improving, you are likely to lose most of the next 400.

Indians have been humiliated by Pakistan throughout history and you refuse to play us in the UAE as your mentally weak team fear us, Pakistan also has a superior overall record to India and you still have nightmares over how we embarrassed you in your own back yard not so long ago. India don't deserve respect even from Bangladesh.:yshah1

 

[Thivagar]

Dhoni lovers are at it again. There is nothing wrong with expressing your preference after playing under both captain. Clearly more players seem to be happy playing under Virat than Dhoni. All Dhoni did was whine about fast bowlers, bowlers in general, pitches, umpries and etc. Never blaming him for his slow approach when chasing though, he did what had to be done.

 

[Thivagar]

Can you tell us more about this? You have got me curious.

Just watch his interviews and some his tweets.

 

[Adijazz1706]

You really think Yadav and Aaron will be able to "fulfill their potential" after Dhoni's exit?

Virat himself dropped Yadav after 2 games in WI and reaped greater benefit from having Bhuvi in the team and Dhoni was accused to favoring "trundlers" over phassst bowlers.

Yadav has only himself to blame. As a fast bowler if you can't get your line and length right even after years of International cricket then no captain or his so called backing can save you. Same goes for Aaron.

BK has upped his pace, I saw it on PP somewhere.

 

[Adijazz1706]

ashwin seems like an honest guy when you read his comments and tweets at times so not suprised you admire his honesty. Hope for our guys sake there are tons of issues and camps in the dressing room.

ftfy )

 

[Sherlock]

Maybe he's talking about the coaching staff rather than pointing fingers at the captain?

 

[cricketpatzer]

Indians have been humiliated by Pakistan throughout history and you refuse to play us in the UAE as your mentally weak team fear us, Pakistan also has a superior overall record to India and you still have nightmares over how we embarrassed you in your own back yard not so long ago. India don't deserve respect even from Bangladesh.:yshah1

Dude, get over history. Stop living in the past and look to the future. The phenomenal rate of progress of the Indian players bodes well for the Indian team in the future.

Or maybe you can just go back to living in the past, your choice.

 

[Statsman]

BK has upped his pace, I saw it on PP somewhere.

More importantly he has a brain to bowl a decent line and length. Something missing with the more "talented" Yadav.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Can you tell us more about this? You have got me curious.

Dhoni is like the suave classy guy whom you don't mess with. Could screw you over.

Ashwin has a bit of a split personality. A bit idiotic at times and thinks a bit too much of himself. At the same time, he is incredibly smart who actually knows what is going on, what he must do to get results, etc. Generally he is all cool. Down to earth fella, helps others, etc......but there is an idiotic side to him too. Overall, he knows how to separate the two which is why he keeps rising.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

^As long you don't do business or any favors/dealings with Ashwin, you should be fine.

Don't know that aspect about Dhoni.

 

[MMHS]

May be I am wrong, but it's quite expected.

Indian cricket is all about the "Trophy man" - there is undue hype & mayhem for the top Indian players. This has been the history of Indian cricket - they worship their super hero. From Lala Amarnath to Tiger Pataudi to Sunny to Azhar to Tendulkar to MSD; the best Indian batsman is the God - you flower him, you pamper him. During my time, from a humble batsman, in couple of years time Azhar became the Sikander of Indian Cricket, then Tendulkar served him his Mukkadar. In his hay days, MSD with his words, hair style, fashion was King of Indian cricket (And Super Kings of IPL Chennai) - it's only that Tendulkar's grand image kept his honour intact, but everyone knew who was shining.

What Ashwin is doing is expected actually. Now the sun is on Virat's shoulder & none worships a setting sun. - he is the new Don & it's better to pamper him. This guy Ashwin was the go to guy for MS, his career was nurtured, raised by the man who backed him is every aspect of career - for team India, South Zone or CSK. But now it's Virat's monarchy - not only you need to keep him comfortable, but you need to prove him better than the buddah, who can't make a come back. Some how, just by a magic wand, if MSD is made Captain again, this gentleman Ashwin'll again blow his trumpet, just like he did every time MSD sent him for press conference. Stardom in Indian cricket built in a way that like Jordan/Johnson; Jeter/Alex Rod or CR/Messi - there can't be more than one God - whoever he sits on that throne, earns obnoxiously, pampered shamelessly, hyped limitless - as if there are other 10 players just to make the numbers.

Move on guys, nothing new here. Once MSD leaves Indian cricket team entirely, we should have a reality check.


* PS - Indian posters need not to get upset with this - my intention is not to hurt anyone. Humorously, I am stating the obvious, which you can also check comparing Lala/Mankad, Hazare/Majnrekar; Pataudi/Borde, Wadekar/Sardesai, Sunny/Vishi, Azhar/Amarnath, Tendulkar/Dravid, MSD/Ganguly; Virat/Rahne - and if I bring Ramakant Desai, Subhash Gupte, Bedi, Chandra, Kapil, Kumble, Srinath, Zak or Ash in this mix - it's like 2nd class citizen.

 

[Strike Rate]

May be I am wrong, but it's quite expected.

Indian cricket is all about the "Trophy man" - there is undue hype & mayhem for the top Indian players. This has been the history of Indian cricket - they worship their super hero. From Lala Amarnath to Tiger Pataudi to Sunny to Azhar to Tendulkar to MSD; the best Indian batsman is the God - you flower him, you pamper him. During my time, from a humble batsman, in couple of years time Azhar became the Sikander of Indian Cricket, then Tendulkar served him his Mukkadar. In his hay days, MSD with his words, hair style, fashion was King of Indian cricket (And Super Kings of IPL Chennai) - it's only that Tendulkar's grand image kept his honour intact, but everyone knew who was shining.

What Ashwin is doing is expected actually. Now the sun is on Virat's shoulder & none worships a setting sun. - he is the new Don & it's better to pamper him. This guy Ashwin was the go to guy for MS, his career was nurtured, raised by the man who backed him is every aspect of career - for team India, South Zone or CSK. But now it's Virat's monarchy - not only you need to keep him comfortable, but you need to prove him better than the buddah, who can't make a come back. Some how, just by a magic wand, if MSD is made Captain again, this gentleman Ashwin'll again blow his trumpet, just like he did every time MSD sent him for press conference. Stardom in Indian cricket built in a way that like Jordan/Johnson; Jeter/Alex Rod or CR/Messi - there can't be more than one God - whoever he sits on that throne, earns obnoxiously, pampered shamelessly, hyped limitless - as if there are other 10 players just to make the numbers.

Move on guys, nothing new here. Once MSD leaves Indian cricket team entirely, we should have a reality check.


* PS - Indian posters need not to get upset with this - my intention is not to hurt anyone. Humorously, I am stating the obvious, which you can also check comparing Lala/Mankad, Hazare/Majnrekar; Pataudi/Borde, Wadekar/Sardesai, Sunny/Vishi, Azhar/Amarnath, Tendulkar/Dravid, MSD/Ganguly; Virat/Rahne - and if I bring Ramakant Desai, Subhash Gupte, Bedi, Chandra, Kapil, Kumble, Srinath, Zak or Ash in this mix - it's like 2nd class citizen.

Kapil never got the respect he deserved from the nation during his playing days and after that. Indian public just love batting GODs and players like Kapil, Kumble, Zak, Srinath are the servants.

 

[MMHS]

Kapil never got the respect he deserved from the nation during his playing days and after that. Indian public just love batting GODs and players like Kapil, Kumble, Zak, Srinath are the servants.

I was joking a bit, but reality is nor far away.

There is no other reason of bringing this in a press briefing. This guy Ashwin is far more educated & I am sure BCCI trains it's players on public address; so obviously, there will be difference between him & someone like MoYo taking a dig at someone; but the motive is clear. MS has enough history behind him to prove that what he did brought results. He is still the LO Captain & does it mean that Indian players played or now playing LO under pressure or being dishonest under MS?

May be things are better now for him as he is the senior guy in the team; but he could have said that without taking a dig at previous Captain. This is something one does when he is trying to pamper someone. Relationship between present & past Captain is hardly sweet in South Asia (actually often everywhere, but they hardly expose themselves), therefore Virat would like to hear how open, cordial, dynamic & democratic leader he is compared to MSD.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

I am enjoying this digs, I hope Jaddu comes and takes a dig at Shikhar Dhawan. Cricket without dressing room politics is plain boring.

 

[Thivagar]

May be I am wrong, but it's quite expected.

Indian cricket is all about the "Trophy man" - there is undue hype & mayhem for the top Indian players. This has been the history of Indian cricket - they worship their super hero. From Lala Amarnath to Tiger Pataudi to Sunny to Azhar to Tendulkar to MSD; the best Indian batsman is the God - you flower him, you pamper him. During my time, from a humble batsman, in couple of years time Azhar became the Sikander of Indian Cricket, then Tendulkar served him his Mukkadar. In his hay days, MSD with his words, hair style, fashion was King of Indian cricket (And Super Kings of IPL Chennai) - it's only that Tendulkar's grand image kept his honour intact, but everyone knew who was shining.

What Ashwin is doing is expected actually. Now the sun is on Virat's shoulder & none worships a setting sun. - he is the new Don & it's better to pamper him. This guy Ashwin was the go to guy for MS, his career was nurtured, raised by the man who backed him is every aspect of career - for team India, South Zone or CSK. But now it's Virat's monarchy - not only you need to keep him comfortable, but you need to prove him better than the buddah, who can't make a come back. Some how, just by a magic wand, if MSD is made Captain again, this gentleman Ashwin'll again blow his trumpet, just like he did every time MSD sent him for press conference. Stardom in Indian cricket built in a way that like Jordan/Johnson; Jeter/Alex Rod or CR/Messi - there can't be more than one God - whoever he sits on that throne, earns obnoxiously, pampered shamelessly, hyped limitless - as if there are other 10 players just to make the numbers.

Move on guys, nothing new here. Once MSD leaves Indian cricket team entirely, we should have a reality check.


* PS - Indian posters need not to get upset with this - my intention is not to hurt anyone. Humorously, I am stating the obvious, which you can also check comparing Lala/Mankad, Hazare/Majnrekar; Pataudi/Borde, Wadekar/Sardesai, Sunny/Vishi, Azhar/Amarnath, Tendulkar/Dravid, MSD/Ganguly; Virat/Rahne - and if I bring Ramakant Desai, Subhash Gupte, Bedi, Chandra, Kapil, Kumble, Srinath, Zak or Ash in this mix - it's like 2nd class citizen.

During Azharrudin or Ganguly's time, the new comers aren't allowed to talk to the captain unless the captain wants to talk to him. From a very close source.

 

[Sandeep]

Ashwin and co are far more educated, more mature and well behaved. Pretty sure things will be back to normal once the King returns to cricket in Florida

 

[giri26]

I guess you guys are reading too much into this comment. I think Ashwin was comparing the coaching style of Shastri and Kumble. I don't think he meant Dhoni at all in his interview. Whatever may be his equation with Dhoni, Ashwin is smart enough not to throw his LOI captain under the bus. Ravi Shastri is a dictator type of person and I am sure the players felt that they couldn't speak their mind in his presence.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Ashwin and co are far more educated, more mature and well behaved. Pretty sure things will be back to normal once the King returns to cricket in Florida

When you are using far more, which team are you comparing against?

 

[cricketjoshila]

During Azharrudin or Ganguly's time, the new comers aren't allowed to talk to the captain unless the captain wants to talk to him. From a very close source.

That is incorrect.

Azhar's time was different though and perhaps the only time when juniors werent treated well.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Some people have so much hatred and bias towards India that they go to every thread and write long winding cleverely worded posts to take a dig at Indian cricket,when they absolutely nothng about the internal workings of Indian cricket.Nothing.

 

[Yanna_Rascala]

Some people have so much hatred and bias towards India that they go to every thread and write long winding cleverely worded posts to take a dig at Indian cricket,when they absolutely nothng about the internal workings of Indian cricket.Nothing.

Nice to see you back joshila bhai. I hope all is well

 

[Abdul]

Don't think he would try to say something like that about Dhoni as they are great friends

 

[Junaids]

To me, it seems fairly obvious that the Indian team has been held back for years by internal division and politics.

At Test level they have frequently simply unraveled. Everyone talks about the whitewashes in England and Australia five years ago, and the narrower defeats on the following tour, but they are not the best example.

If you think about it, India drew in Australia in 2003-04 due to the absence of Warne and McGrath. By the time they played the next tour four years later, they really believed that they might win.

The strange thing about Monkeygate at the Sydney Test in 2007-08 is not the racial incident or even the claims of unsportsmanlike behavior by the Aussies. It is that India collapsed as soon as they came under any pressure, and collapsed in a gigantic heap.

This was a team which was rotten on the inside and in spite of their undoubted talent, they did not have the team spirit to survive a final day in which they were 6-1 at Lunch.

They then suffered not one but two collapses. By Tea they had moved on to 79-3 in 26 overs, but then by drinks (41 overs) they had stumbled to 141-6. The last drinks break was at 57 overs, now 157-6 at which point they needed to survive 13 overs to draw the match.

If you recall, they reached the penultimate over at 210-7, with Kumble 45 not out and Harbhajan 7 not out. They had worn out the Aussie strike bowlers (Johnson and Lee) and only had to survive one over each from Michael Clarke and Andrew Symonds.

Only for the last three wickets to fall in 5 balls.

Of course the Indians then tried to blame the umpires, the opposition and anyone or anything else.

But the bottom line was that they had arrogantly expected to win - they hadn't understood that their draw last time around was against weakened opposition - and they lacked the team spirit to survive.

You could argue that Pakistan recently did the same at Edgbaston, but they had much longer to survive and they had to carry Hafeez.

India's self-destruction was because of a weak team spirit.

 

[Buffet]

How do you unravel at the test level and win pretty much everything in shorter formats if team spirit was that huge a factor?

Simple fact is you need bowlers to win test matches and Indians always had weak bowling units. In 00s they had a reasonably good bowling unit with gun batting and that saw them doing well in longer format. Now in ODI, you win by gun batting and Indians had that. That's why they could win.

Doing well in one not doing so well in another had more to do with skill set needed in different formats.

 

[sully3]

I always get this feeling Ashwin always has something to say about. Always looking for an opportunity to prove he's smarter then your average cricketer. Cant see him having many friends in the dressing room

You are there to give your views on your performance in the post match ceremony, not there to play mind games with the media and fans.

 

[Junaids]

How do you unravel at the test level and win pretty much everything in shorter formats if team spirit was that huge a factor?

Simple fact is you need bowlers to win test matches and Indians always had weak bowling units. In 00s they had a reasonably good bowling unit with gun batting and that saw them doing well in longer format. Now in ODI, you win by gun batting and Indians had that. That's why they could win.

Doing well in one not doing so well in another had more to do with skill set needed in different formats.

You make a good point......almost.

India lost that Sydney Test and countless subsequent Tests outside Asia because the batsmen collapsed when they could have saved the game playing to the best of their ability.

Bowlers WIN Test matches. But often when India loses it is because of poor team spirit and application. And I'm sorry, but Sehwag and Tendulkar were appalling examples in this regard, given how little application and courage and defiance they tended to show when faced with the situation of having to try to bat all day on the last day to save a match.

 

[cricketpatzer]

Indian cricket is all about the "Trophy man" - there is undue hype & mayhem for the top Indian players. This has been the history of Indian cricket - they worship their super hero.

and

This was a team which was rotten on the inside and in spite of their undoubted talent, they did not have the team spirit to survive a final day in which they were 6-1 at Lunch.

They then suffered not one but two collapses. By Tea they had moved on to 79-3 in 26 overs, but then by drinks (41 overs) they had stumbled to 141-6. The last drinks break was at 57 overs, now 157-6 at which point they needed to survive 13 overs to draw the match.

If you recall, they reached the penultimate over at 210-7, with Kumble 45 not out and Harbhajan 7 not out. They had worn out the Aussie strike bowlers (Johnson and Lee) and only had to survive one over each from Michael Clarke and Andrew Symonds.

Only for the last three wickets to fall in 5 balls.

India's self-destruction was because of a weak team spirit.

Thanks so much for the gratuitous analysis of the Indian psyche. Today I learnt that Indians worship their sports heroes more than others. And that the 2008 "weak team spirit" Indians magically became the number one ranked Test team in 2009.

All this outpouring of national psychoanalysis from a comment by Ashwin that there is more honesty in the dressing room. The future of India is bright now that it understands its psyche.

 

[Junaids]

and



Thanks so much for the gratuitous analysis of the Indian psyche. Today I learnt that Indians worship their sports heroes more than others. And that the 2008 "weak team spirit" Indians magically became the number one ranked Test team in 2009.

All this outpouring of national psychoanalysis from a comment by Ashwin that there is more honesty in the dressing room. The future of India is bright now that it understands its psyche.

But that's my whole point.

Just as I warn Pakistanis not to take their upcoming Number 1 ranking seriously, everybody accepts that India's Number 1 ranking in 2009-10 was a complete joke. As you agree, this was the same team that wanted to run away after they lost in Sydney.

I have yet to meet a single non-Indian who thinks otherwise.

 

[Yanna_Rascala]

Chuckwin is always looking for attention. It's best not to look too deep into his statements.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Some people have so much hatred and bias towards India that they go to every thread and write long winding cleverely worded posts to take a dig at Indian cricket,when they absolutely nothng about the internal workings of Indian cricket.Nothing.

I have my disagreements with [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] as well but i wouldnt say that he knows absolutely nothing. His viewpoint in this thread was quite fair and didnt sting of anything else. However MMHS would reply himself better.

 

[cricketpatzer]

I have my disagreements with [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] as well but i wouldnt say that he knows absolutely nothing. His viewpoint in this thread was quite fair and didnt sting of anything else. However MMHS would reply himself better.

MMHS is one of the worst. I stopped taking him seriously after he wrote this about Gavaskar "With due respect, he was extremely self-centered & played every ball for his own stats".

 

[MMHS]

I have my disagreements with [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] as well but i wouldnt say that he knows absolutely nothing. His viewpoint in this thread was quite fair and didnt sting of anything else. However MMHS would reply himself better.

I won't - you can't box when you need to guard below the belt.

I knew this was coming, hence the disclaimer in bold - therefore I have nothing to say further. Andaz apna apna.

 

[MMHS]

MMHS is one of the worst. I stopped taking him seriously after he wrote this about Gavaskar "With due respect, he was extremely self-centered & played every ball for his own stats".

Please don't take me seriously, it's all rubbish. You can always believe that he scored 36 in 60 overs, to chase 333 .....

 

[cricketpatzer]

Some people have so much hatred and bias towards India that they go to every thread and write long winding cleverely worded posts to take a dig at Indian cricket,when they absolutely nothng about the internal workings of Indian cricket.Nothing.

They think they are being very clever, but they are just wasting their energy. To spend your time trying to pull down others only means you are wasting your life. Better to go out and achieve something real.

 

[Junaids]

MMHS is one of the worst. I stopped taking him seriously after he wrote this about Gavaskar "With due respect, he was extremely self-centered & played every ball for his own stats".

But [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] was completely correct on that.

Gavaskar and Boycott are two of my cricketing heroes, but they are the two most selfish batsmen that I have ever seen. It made them great people to have in your team against the toughest opponents.

36 not out in 60 overs in a World Cup ODI chasing 333 tells one story. So too does making Chetan Chauhan leave the field with him after he didn't like being given out LBW.

Gavaskar and Boycott are by far the two most selfish batsmen of the least 40 years that I've been watching. And for similar reasons, Richard Hadlee was the most self-centered bowler.

 

[cricketpatzer]

But that's my whole point.

Just as I warn Pakistanis not to take their upcoming Number 1 ranking seriously, everybody accepts that India's Number 1 ranking in 2009-10 was a complete joke. As you agree, this was the same team that wanted to run away after they lost in Sydney.

I have yet to meet a single non-Indian who thinks otherwise.

Nice try at changing the subject, but it won't work. You said that losing that India's performance showed "India's self-destruction was because of a weak team spirit".

Losing 8, 9 and 10 in 5 balls is a lot less worse than losing 4, 5, 6 and 7 and then going on to lose the match.

 

[MMHS]

But [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] was completely correct on that.

Gavaskar and Boycott are two of my cricketing heroes, but they are the two most selfish batsmen that I have ever seen. It made them great people to have in your team against the toughest opponents.

36 not out in 60 overs in a World Cup ODI chasing 333 tells one story. So too does making Chetan Chauhan leave the field with him after he didn't like being given out LBW.

Gavaskar and Boycott are by far the two most selfish batsmen of the least 40 years that I've been watching. And for similar reasons, Richard Hadlee was the most self-centered bowler.

What about the "disagreement" with Zaheer & Fleathcer, when they offered for draw, in last hour, but Gavaskar needed half an hour to finish his ton ......

Leave it here. Sometimes I feel, I need to stop posting anything touching Indian Cricket.

 

[Junaids]

Nice try at changing the subject, but it won't work. You said that losing that India's performance showed "India's self-destruction was because of a weak team spirit".

Losing 8, 9 and 10 in 5 balls is a lot less worse than losing 4, 5, 6 and 7 and then going on to lose the match.

I'm trying to be even-handed.

You might not be familiar with my other posts - I'm not actually anti-Indian and indeed my Dad (who was born in India which became East Pakistan which became Bangladesh - after he left) is a proponent of All India the nation and All India the cricket team.

I just think that the Indian Test teams of my lifetime have been psychologically brittle - as have Pakistan since 1992.

 

[cricketpatzer]

Nice try at changing the subject, but it won't work. You said that losing that India's performance showed "India's self-destruction was because of a weak team spirit".

Losing 8, 9 and 10 in 5 balls is a lot less worse than losing 4, 5, 6 and 7 and then going on to lose the match.

*losing 4, 5, 6 and 7 for 1 run

I don't remember any Indian posters here concluding that "Pakistan's self-destruction was because of a weak team spirit" after that happened.

 

[cricketpatzer]

Please don't take me seriously, it's all rubbish. You can always believe that he scored 36 in 60 overs, to chase 333 .....

Your statement was ""With due respect, he was extremely self-centered & played every ball for his own stats Period". That covers his entire career, not just one innings played when ODIs ware still a novelty.

 

[cricketpatzer]

I'm trying to be even-handed.

You might not be familiar with my other posts - I'm not actually anti-Indian and indeed my Dad (who was born in India which became East Pakistan which became Bangladesh - after he left) is a proponent of All India the nation and All India the cricket team.

I just think that the Indian Test teams of my lifetime have been psychologically brittle - as have Pakistan since 1992.

Whether you are anti, pro, or just unbiased is to be judged by your words rather than where your dad was born. My dad was born in a place that became Pakistan, however I would not claim that as proof of anything.

Your conclusion "India's self-destruction was because of a weak team spirit" based on the evidence your provide marks you out quite well.

 

[cricketpatzer]

What about the "disagreement" with Zaheer & Fleathcer, when they offered for draw, in last hour, but Gavaskar needed half an hour to finish his ton ......

Not letting Pakistan finish the match early when he is approaching his century and getting good batting practice too is selfishness? Not sure what you think he owed the Pakistani team.

Leave it here. Sometimes I feel, I need to stop posting anything touching Indian Cricket.

You won't be missed by the Indians, drama gets boring after a while.

 

[MMHS]

Not letting Pakistan finish the match early when he is approaching his century and getting good batting practice too is selfishness? Not sure what you think he owed the Pakistani team.



You won't be missed by the Indians, drama gets boring after a while.

That's what I am trying to say - don't allow yourself to get bored reading or responding my post.

 

[street cricketer]

Haven't seen the video, but might be referring to Shastri's hard handed approach and his bullying of curators.

Though I won't be surprised if he was referring to Dhoni. While Ashwin was a vital cog in Dhoni's team at the early part of his career, things soured between them a bit off late. Wasn't selected as the lead spinner in overseas matches and was dropped in preference of Jadeja in many tours. Later there were rumours going around that Dhoni was a bit unhappy with Ashwin and hence the underbowling of him in the WT20 and the IPL following it. Now these are just rumours and it's pointless to speculate but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true actually. Both Dhoni and Ashwin have big egos (eventhough it might not be apparent) as well as Kohli too.

Thing is Dhoni is a very reserved type of personality and you don't see him being too social with everyone other than his close friends. And he was the first to remove the non performing seniors from the team and his biggest achievement was removing the seniority culture from Indian cricket, which is immense considering that seniors have still a great deal of influence in the Pakistan team (which has a similar team culture). This is one of the reasons a lot of seniors fell out with Dhoni and even in his marriage, I didn't see too many seniors attending it. The thing with Dhoni is that, he had a certain way of playing and he always backed the players who were most suited to his game play. But if they're non performing, he will drop them and change to the players who suited the next best, regardless of them being seniors or juniors. He brought a sort of professional culture to the team, almost like the Australian team culture in a way, which is why I feel Greg Chappell might have fit better with Dhoni rather than Ganguly. Wright was the best coach possible who could've worked with Ganguly. Because of Dhoni's reserved nature, you get the feeling that some juniors aren't as comfortable talking to him than with a more expressive captain, though they do get the job done on the field.

But it's far far better compared to the past when juniors used to get regularly bullied under Azhar's captaincy by the Azhar-Sidhu-Kapil trio. I've read that juniors weren't allowed to talk to the captain unless he wanted then. After Sachin took over, he tried to change the senior junior relationship and apparently he used to crack a lot of jokes with the juniors to break the ice in the team and I've heard Jadeja talking about how Sachin used to talk regularly about cricket to help others in their game after the day (like you could've played this shot and you're doing it a bit wrong and things like that). The same was followed by Ganguly and the rest. I do get the feeling that the team bonding was a lot more during Ganguly, Sachin, Dravid time than under Dhoni or even under Kohli. I still remember the story of Yuvi when he along with his mates made a prank on Ganguly in a team meeting. As much as a cool guy Dhoni is on the field, I can't imagine the juniors making a similar prank on Dhoni like that. And frankly, I don't think even Kohli is as social off the field as Ganguly, Sehwag, Sachin, Yuvi, Bhajji, Zak, etc. I know it sounds funny but Kohli does come across as a bit of an introvert off the field (in his interviews, etc.) as much as he is an extrovert on it.

But then even the best of teams had politics in them and it usually happens when there are a lot of big players in the team. It happened in the Pakistan team of the past (oath taking and all that, Wasim-Waqar strained relationship) and in the Australian teams too (Warne-Waugh, Clarke-Katich, etc.). It's very rare to see teams not having a few controversies and politics off the field. In this case however, I think the likes of Yadav, Ashwin, etc., are more comfortable with Kohli due to similar age group.

 

[dani2k]

Any team will have contrasting personalities who don't see eye to eye with everyone else. As long as everyone pulls in the same direction and the team is performing it should not matter.

Dhoni and Ashwin might or might not have differences with each other. But both are intelligent enough to not let that affect the team. So if some of the PPers here are expecting another oath taking episode ala Pakistan they will be sadly mistaken!

 

[giri26]

Wow how much of speculation on this thread. Ashwin clearly meant the team management. He was not talking about Dhoni at all. You have to realize that Dhoni hasn't been Indian test captain for almost 2 years now. So not sure why Ashwin will compare the Kohli with a captain 2 years ago. Dhoni is still the ODI/T20 captain, so obviously he was not referring to that. If you think with little bit of common sense, you will know that he was comparing Shastri's management versus Kumble's management. If he wanted to praise Kohli's captaincy and insult Dhoni, he could have done it during the SL series or SA series. It is very obvious when he made this comment after Kumble replaced Shastri.

Ashwin might be a loose cannon but he is way smarter than you give him credit for. He wouldn't go on insulting his ODI captain when he is still captaining in shorter format.

 

[cricketpatzer]

Wow how much of speculation on this thread. Ashwin clearly meant the team management. He was not talking about Dhoni at all. You have to realize that Dhoni hasn't been Indian test captain for almost 2 years now. So not sure why Ashwin will compare the Kohli with a captain 2 years ago. Dhoni is still the ODI/T20 captain, so obviously he was not referring to that. If you think with little bit of common sense, you will know that he was comparing Shastri's management versus Kumble's management. If he wanted to praise Kohli's captaincy and insult Dhoni, he could have done it during the SL series or SA series. It is very obvious when he made this comment after Kumble replaced Shastri.

Ashwin might be a loose cannon but he is way smarter than you give him credit for. He wouldn't go on insulting his ODI captain when he is still captaining in shorter format.

All the anti-India stuff isn't even worthy of being called speculation. Wishful thinking by those who don't like India is a more appropriate description.

Back to the real world here is Ashwin's statement after winning the MOS "Contributing in a win for the team is always great. When we started this series, we wanted to come here and play aggressive cricket. We wanted to play five bowlers in all the games, that's something we wanted to try out. What we'll take away from here is a lot of positives. The team is such that everyone's closely monitored and their contributions are appreciated. That's why we're doing well as a unit."

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

What about the "disagreement" with Zaheer & Fleathcer, when they offered for draw, in last hour, but Gavaskar needed half an hour to finish his ton ......

Leave it here. Sometimes I feel, I need to stop posting anything touching Indian Cricket.

I liked your style of not giving any importance to some trolls here. Hoepfully you will continue doing that.

 

[MMHS]

I liked your style of not giving any importance to some trolls here. Hoepfully you will continue doing that.

It would be very cheap of me to thank you for this, but I am inspired.