Did we ever have so many genuine quicks since the inception of domestic cricket?

[Muhammad Saad]

This thread is mostly directed towards veteran who are following domestic cricket since decades , does any one know if we had such amount of genuine quick bowlers all at once in any era? Not talking anything about quality , so just keep the topic on pace only be it top pace or average pace.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

According to Shoaib Akhtar, there were 5-6 people just as fast as him in domestic cricket in the 90s who never made it to the international level.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

 

[hitthestump]

This thread is mostly directed towards veteran who are following domestic cricket since decades , does any one know if we had such amount of genuine quick bowlers all at once in any era? Not talking anything about quality , so just keep the topic on pace only be it top pace or average pace.

Who are we talking about here? Shaheen, Rauf and Hasnain? Are we included names like Musa and Naseem in there?

 

[hitthestump]

Pont surely does have a point. Broad and Anderson clearly had potential but were ultimately pretty rubbish when they first entered international cricket. All it took was a combination of their own hard work, consistency in selection and effective coaching and it's given them ATG status.

Pakistan keep looking for someone to produce ATG performances right off the bat and if it doesn't happen they move onto the next one. And then the next one etc. Having swathes of pacers to choose from has backfired in that sense because we don't stick to any.

The coaching of fast bowlers has also been awful. Shaheen aside, not a single fast bowler has kicked on from the crop of Hasnain, Musa, Rauf and Naseem. Even the apparently established Abbas has been rendered useless. This is surely a systemic problem with our coaching and not an individual one.

 

[gazza619]

View attachment 107470

What an overstatement!

 

[Local.Dada]

I would suggest not to go by T20 speeds. You will only set up yourselves for disappointment when these bowlers will be huffing and puffing to hit 130ks in second spells.

Cricket is a skill game. Right now Pakistan cricket needs a Jimmy Anderson not a Shoaib Akthar

 

[Slog]

Pont trying to get another contract

 

[Bullet Drive]

View attachment 107470

This guy is annoying. Talks a lot on Twitter. Has been a bowling coach for over a decade, yet tell me a single bowler he's produced? Hasn't even produced mediocre bowlers, because he hasn't produced ANY bowlers who have even made it to county level.

Kevin Pietersen once tweeted him, and said he's stealing a living. I really believe KP.

 

[Local.Dada]

This guy is annoying. Talks a lot on Twitter. Has been a bowling coach for over a decade, yet tell me a single bowler he's produced? Hasn't even produced mediocre bowlers, because he hasn't produced ANY bowlers who have even made it to county level.

Kevin Pietersen once tweeted him, and said he's stealing a living. I really believe KP.

There is a difference between a coach and an analyst. Just from an Indian perspective, Ishant,Umesh,Shami etc have been around for more than a decade. They were always fast and had skills. It was their child hood and domestic coaches who groomed them. However they found success later on because they found a competent coaching staff who gave them plans to bowl within their strengths or came up with strategies based on pitch/conditions/opposition.

Is Pont someone who works with kids and train them or is he an analyst who can help upcoming bowlers with plans and slight adjustments we will never know till he works at a big enough level. It’s tough to praise or criticize someone based on Twitter. However I do see your point though.

 

[ElRaja]

This thread is mostly directed towards veteran who are following domestic cricket since decades , does any one know if we had such amount of genuine quick bowlers all at once in any era? Not talking anything about quality , so just keep the topic on pace only be it top pace or average pace.

t20 exaggerates the effect, shaheen and hasan ali are the only one i think who have shown any ability to keep the pace up into second or third spells.

dhani looks like he has a repeatable action, and had decent first class stats in the qae. go back to paks first class season and literally no fast bowler apart from hasan ali was troubling batsmen for this year.

 

[Bilal7]

Pont surely does have a point. Broad and Anderson clearly had potential but were ultimately pretty rubbish when they first entered international cricket. All it took was a combination of their own hard work, consistency in selection and effective coaching and it's given them ATG status.

Pakistan keep looking for someone to produce ATG performances right off the bat and if it doesn't happen they move onto the next one. And then the next one etc. Having swathes of pacers to choose from has backfired in that sense because we don't stick to any.

The coaching of fast bowlers has also been awful. Shaheen aside, not a single fast bowler has kicked on from the crop of Hasnain, Musa, Rauf and Naseem. Even the apparently established Abbas has been rendered useless. This is surely a systemic problem with our coaching and not an individual one.

Neither Broad nor Anderson is an ATG. I agree with the rest of your comment. There is no rhyme nor reason behind discarding Mohammad Abbas this quickly. Naseem should be sent back to FC cricket to work on his game but should also receive support from the PCB.

 

[Bilal7]

I would suggest not to go by T20 speeds. You will only set up yourselves for disappointment when these bowlers will be huffing and puffing to hit 130ks in second spells.

Cricket is a skill game. Right now Pakistan cricket needs a Jimmy Anderson not a Shoaib Akthar

Given that there are three world cups coming up, I'll have the Shoaib Akhtar please.

 

[Suleiman]

I would suggest not to go by T20 speeds. You will only set up yourselves for disappointment when these bowlers will be huffing and puffing to hit 130ks in second spells.

Cricket is a skill game. Right now Pakistan cricket needs a Jimmy Anderson not a Shoaib Akthar

Pakistan will gladly take an Akhtar. As will any other team. We’re talking 1999-2005 Akhtar.

 

[JattMaula]

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Pont is a PP veteran and this is a classic PP post. He should post these insights here.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Best senior players.

Fastest bowlers.

Best young players.

Wonder what exactly is going wrong then.

 

[Majid Khan]

When you say ‘genuine’ quicks , can someone remind me in this era what kind of speed are we talking about these days to be ‘genuine’ fast ?

Back in the 1980s and 1990s and early 2000s a genuine fast bowler was one who could bowl spells at express pace (90-95mph) range consistently almost 4 or 5 times in an over. Note I said spells, they didn’t go full tilt all the time but when they had their tails up they could do it for a spell or two.

Even the ‘fast medium’ bowlers of that era like Javagal Srinath and Chaminda Vaas would get the occasional ball at 89/90mph — today that’s almost seen ‘genuine’ fast ...

As I’ve yet to see a spell by any of the current Pakistani quicks that looked lightning fast , with shades of Shoaib or Waqar.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Best senior players.

Fastest bowlers.

Best young players.

Wonder what exactly is going wrong then.

These statements are what's entirely going wrong. When you start with a hyperbole, you can't really backtrack and do the groundwork that actually produces good bowlers. PCB sets itself to fail because it fails to see the starting point of where it wants to work from.

 

[NishanKonar]

This guy is annoying. Talks a lot on Twitter. Has been a bowling coach for over a decade, yet tell me a single bowler he's produced? Hasn't even produced mediocre bowlers, because he hasn't produced ANY bowlers who have even made it to county level.

Kevin Pietersen once tweeted him, and said he's stealing a living. I really believe KP.

On a diff note - 1 reason the West Indies attack of 70s / 80s was scary was bcoz batsmen did not have helet , cehst gaurd in those days

Imagine facing current Aussie / SA / India / Eng pace attack without helmet / chest gaurd. They wud be as scary as Holding / Marshall !

 

[Mamoon]

Pont trying to get another contract

The desperation is getting embarrassing now.

Won’t be long before this tweet:

“PCB, please hire me as your bowling coach because other international teams are not interested anymore. I have already duped delusional Pakistani fans with the all the pandering, and I hope you will take note as well”

 

[Majid Khan]

On a diff note - 1 reason the West Indies attack of 70s / 80s was scary was bcoz batsmen did not have helet , cehst gaurd in those days

Imagine facing current Aussie / SA / India / Eng pace attack without helmet / chest gaurd. They wud be as scary as Holding / Marshall !

There’s a number of factors here , the likes of Marshall and Holding were aggressive and genuinely quick bowlers , their style was to intimidate batsmen aiming for the ribs or head with short pitched bouncers , but they were lethal and dangerous to batsmen in most conditions with or without helmet. And don’t forget they were as skilful and intelligent bowlers too as there has ever been, able to beat them through skill and guile.

Somehow with all due respect but to put current Indian pace attack with Bumrah and Ishant Sharma alongside Holding and Marshall — it’s like saying Ben Affleck and Harry Caville (whatever his name is) from “Batman v Superman” are actors as good as Pacino/DeNiro were in Godfather 1 and 2.

 

[NishanKonar]

There’s a number of factors here , the likes of Marshall and Holding were aggressive and genuinely quick bowlers , their style was to intimidate batsmen aiming for the ribs or head with short pitched bouncers , but they were lethal and dangerous to batsmen in most conditions with or without helmet. And don’t forget they were as skilful and intelligent bowlers too as there has ever been, able to beat them through skill and guile.

Somehow with all due respect but to put current Indian pace attack with Bumrah and Ishant Sharma alongside Holding and Marshall — it’s like saying Ben Affleck and Harry Caville (whatever his name is) from “Batman v Superman” are actors as good as Pacino/DeNiro were in Godfather 1 and 2.

They were dangerous bcoz those days batsmen did not have protective gear. Marshall broke Gatting's nose bcoz he had no helmet visor. If Marshall was bowling to Gatting today , it wud not have broken his nose

Regarding Bumrah & Ishant - 6 batsmen were replaced due to concussion sub rule , 4 of them due to Indian bowlers. Look at how many times Bumrah / Ishant / Shami hit batsmen in last 2 years. In the 80s those batsmen wud have ended up in hospital. Nowadays they are saved by helmets !

In cricket we do glorify the past too much & put everyone on a pedestal - something I have said several times in this platform

 

[NishanKonar]

Just to give an example - yesterday I saw a bowler named Dhani hit Kamran akmal on his helmet. Now in the 80s , Kamran wud have gone off on a stretcher & rest of the batsmen wud be **** scarred to come to front foot

But due to helmet Kamran was relatively less affected & continued playing normally & Dhani got hammered later on

 

[Bullet Drive]

KP to Ian Pont:

https://twitter.com/KP24/status/832972190924566533?s=20

https://twitter.com/KP24/status/832974099219623939?s=20

 

[Thunderbolt14]

KP to Ian Pont:

https://twitter.com/KP24/status/832972190924566533?s=20

https://twitter.com/KP24/status/832974099219623939?s=20

KP got out for three consecutive ducks including 2 golden ducks and lashed out. And last time I checked, KP is not a bowler that he would have any say on how good Pont is or isn’t as a bowling coach.

Pont was part of Steyn’s rise as a fast bowler and was the main person working with him in county cricket the year before Steyn went from 100 to number 1. Shoaib Akhtar also consulted Pont for advice on increasing his speed and Gough bowled faster in the Ashes at 35 years of age than he’d ever bowled before after intensive training with Pont.

Pont knows what he’s doing.

 

[OldWarHorse]

Been impressed with a few new guys this year in the PSL. They look as good as any new young fast bowler can be. Its about the next step though and they need to spend time in first class to get there. Learn the skill of creating openings, building pressure and discipline.