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Do Pakistan deserve their ranking of #8? Or are they better?

Ankit007

Ankit007

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I frankly believe that Pakistan should be at #6. It's just that either because of their team selections or their irresponsible play they lose. Otherwise they are potentially at #6.

After last night's game I would say even rain had a big role in Pakistan's loss. It made the target stiffer. Had their been no rain then still they may have lost but giving be fight. As they could have paced their innings better.

Yes they didn't field well but the people who dropped catches are good fielders.

Overall, I don't think Pakistan team is as bad as their fans are making them look like....
 
I've said this before and I'll say it again. We do not have the right mindset of winning ODI's so I would like it if we were not to play ODI's for at least a year and 2-3 months so we can sort ourselves out. We look like a team that doesn't belong in this format at all, we can still win Tests and T20's but this format is not our thing anymore. The number 8 rank should be given to Afghanistan or Ireland; I'd say we play a few games with associate nations so we can get our basics right with the players we want. And also try to get international cricket back in Pakistan, that's going to change us a lot.
 
ExplicitAI said:
I've said this before and I'll say it again. We do not have the right mindset of winning ODI's so I would like it if we were not to play ODI's for at least a year and 2-3 months so we can sort ourselves out. We look like a team that doesn't belong in this format at all, we can still win Tests and T20's but this format is not our thing anymore. The number 8 rank should be given to Afghanistan or Ireland; I'd say we play a few games with associate nations so we can get our basics right with the players we want. And also try to get international cricket back in Pakistan, that's going to change us a lot.
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Pakistan beat Bangladesh and won series in West Indies. Afghanistan is good but not as good as Pakistan. To move forward I guess you need to play some good teams regularly rather then playing associate nations.... Pakistan even won games against England and Australia in their yards. So overall as I said Pakistan is not that bad as you make them look
 
It will be number 9 soon, watch this space.
 
In an ideal world, I won't have picked 5 players from this XI, and definitely won't have made an overweight, unfit, over aged WK Captain. So, I won't say 8th is the right spot - may be in between 5 to 6, depending on how we & Kiwis do for the 5th spot.

Azhar, Ahmed, MoHa, Imad & Wahab doesn't make my team; neither Sarfraz as Captain. Replace those 5 with Amin, Haris, Sharjeel (otherwise new kid d Farhan), Talat & one of Yamin/Fahim or a genuine U25 pacer + Amir as Captain - probably that team'll be very close to the boundary of top 4, given Mickey has full control of his team & Amir (Captain) has full backing of his players.

PS: I don't have any man crash on Amir, neither I am obsessed with his talunt, or he isn't my client - but, I want a bowler as PAK captain & someone that can actually lead on cricket field, not cheerlead the team. If Shadab or Hasan is the better guy, I don't mind, but won't make a WK Captain. If Sarfu is to carry on as Captain, PAK should look to play him as specialist bat & sacrifice a batsman for a WK.
 
Ankit007 said:
Pakistan beat Bangladesh and won series in West Indies. Afghanistan is good but not as good as Pakistan. To move forward I guess you need to play some good teams regularly rather then playing associate nations.... Pakistan even won games against England and Australia in their yards. So overall as I said Pakistan is not that bad as you make them look
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Yes Pakistan deserves to be no 8. They have been performing terribly in limited overs cricket for quite some time now. They haven't won a single odi series against any major nations at their home in last 3/4 years.

BTW, when did pak beat Bangladesh?
 
Coconut said:
Yes Pakistan deserves to be no 8. They have been performing terribly in limited overs cricket for quite some time now. They haven't won a single odi series against any major nations at their home in last 3/4 years.

BTW, when did pak beat Bangladesh?
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Warm up game I was talking about. Just for the potential they have.
 
Ankit007 said:
Pakistan beat Bangladesh and won series in West Indies. Afghanistan is good but not as good as Pakistan. To move forward I guess you need to play some good teams regularly rather then playing associate nations.... Pakistan even won games against England and Australia in their yards. So overall as I said Pakistan is not that bad as you make them look
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Pakistan is by far the most backwards team I've ever seen in the ODI format due to the brand of cricket they currently play. India is the most superior team I've seen and I will go on to say that Hardik Pandya will become the best seam bowling allrounder in the world and it goes to show the quality between the two teams. We have no forward planning and we bring in the wrong people for the wrong job such as Inzamam as chief selector of whom we have some naive hope that he will bring in a modern brand of cricket. There's been false promises and big talk at the start of a new job and we fail to execute them. Our batsman are talented yes, but they see boundaries only as a way of scoring runs, they do not turn dot balls to singles, they do not convert singles to doubles, they do not put pressure on the opposition fielders.

The wrong players are chosen for the ODI format and have failed to justify their selection for ODIs, of which this format has evolved into elongated T20's. Azhar is definitely a world class Tier-2 batsman in Tests (below Smith, Kohli, Root, Williamson) but he does not belong in the ODI format. The bowlers are not bowling disciplined lengths on a consistent basis and players like Wahab are brought in again based on nostalgia and past performances when his stats have deteriorated over the past couple of months, he's been conceding many runs in the majority of matches he plays and I feel we need to look beyond him and look beyond just raw pace. Wrong bowling choices were made here by bowling Imad initially as a defensive option, whereas if we wanted to attack then we could've have Hafeez open to get rid of Dhawan since he's left-handed but we didn't bowl him at all. Going back to Wahab again we chose him over Junaid who has a slight better economy rate and has a better likelihood of picking up more wickets which was evident in the practice game against BD.

Right now I'd much rather focus on getting international cricket back in Pakistan since it's the only way of getting our ranking back up and every team deserves to play at home where they have their own advantage. This will get Pak back on track with other teams and can potentially get us to break into the top 4 rankings in ODI's. So I'm going to conclude that this Pak side deserves to lose all games based on the current squad, motivational levels and the current self belief they have in their skills and abilities.
 
Better than Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, if the right combination is played.
 
I think they are better than 38 and probably belong at #6 right now. In big matches, i back Pakistan to easily beat Sri Lanka, England and maybe New Zealand, Bangladesh or Southern Afrikaan too.
 
Ankit007 said:
I frankly believe that Pakistan should be at #6. It's just that either because of their team selections or their irresponsible play they lose. Otherwise they are potentially at #6.

After last night's game I would say even rain had a big role in Pakistan's loss. It made the target stiffer. Had their been no rain then still they may have lost but giving be fight. As they could have paced their innings better.

Yes they didn't field well but the people who dropped catches are good fielders.

Overall, I don't think Pakistan team is as bad as their fans are making them look like....
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I can't comment on whether Pakistan deserves to be 6 or 8, especially until I have seen Bangladesh and Sri Lanka play their remaining matched at the CT. My gut feel says, Pakistan might be better than SL, but not better than Bangladesh.

But as for the rain ruining the chances...they actually helped Pakistan.The 2 breaks in the Indian innings, meant that the batsmen had to try to get set each time they left the field. Especially after the 2nd break, Kohli and Rohit struggled and that could have meant that we could have scored 350 in 50 overs.

Pakistan also did have a rain break while batting and that would have slightly affected but they were already significantly behind the 8 ball. Had there been no rain, I would have predicted a similar loss with India scoring around 350 and Pakistan between 200 and 225.
 
Bilal7 said:
They do. Haris, Fakhar, Junaid and Fahim are all in the squad and should have played against India.
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Yes always players who are not in the team are the best players. Junaid would have taken 5 for and Harris would have scored century. Lol.
 
Bilal7 said:
They do. Haris, Fakhar, Junaid and Fahim are all in the squad and should have played against India.
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But they didn't play. Lets see what happens if they play.

As things stand we can only look at past results and analyse. We cannot base the rankings on future potential.
 
Sidilicious said:
But they didn't play. Lets see what happens if they play.

As things stand we can only look at past results and analyse. We cannot base the rankings on future potential.
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Yeah, fair enough, which is why I said "... if the right combination is played". If Azhar, Shehzad, Hafeez and Imad are stuck with, then Pakistan is surely the worst team in this competition. Those four guys I mentioned will improve Pakistan by a lot.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yeah, fair enough, which is why I said "... if the right combination is played". If Azhar, Shehzad, Hafeez and Imad are stuck with, then Pakistan is surely the worst team in this competition. Those four guys I mentioned will improve Pakistan by a lot.
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Ok. I haven't seen Imad play to make a statement on him. One match is not enough for me to form a opinion.

Fully agree on Shehzad and Hafeez. Even if you replace him with some kid who did well in PSL, that would be a step forward. Also add Wahab. Though I am not sure if Junaid would be a better replacement.

As for Azhar, I think he might have a role to play in the team, but not in flat pancakes. In pitches where the average score may be less that 300, he can be used as a anchor where the attacking players around him play. Even if you see how he played yesterday, he wasn't poor. Actually gave a decent start. If he had someone more attacking open with him, Pakistan could have been playing at greater than 6 RPO.
 
They don't deserve no.8, rather no.9.

It is WICB's bizarre selections, which are keeping the West Indies at 9.

In no way Pakistan is better than West Indies in ODI's.
 
They fall apart as soon as a tournament comes round.

All the bilaterals they are running around like champions but when it comes to a major tourney they turn into little mouse and capitulate.
 
Anyone who believes we don't deserve the 8th rank is delusional. We've EARNED this rank as much as Bangladesh have earned the No. 6 rank and mind you, this is just the start. The future is an exciting, actually, an extremely exciting, just wait and watch how in a couple of years Pakistan will fall behind the likes of Afghanistan. Yes, you heard me. By 2021, Afghanistan will surely, without a doubt be ahead of Pakistan in the ODI rankings. You heard it here first.
 
Maybe we are slightly better than Zimbabwe and west indies B team. Once west indies select their first choice players, we will be a permanent no.9 team.
 
Pakistan is better than WI and Zimbabwe but worse than all other teams.

If selection improves, Pakistan can reach SL and Bangladesh's level.
 
Last 3 years of performance against the top 8 ranked teams,
.

rank_odi.jpg

Why anyone will think that 8th rank is not deserved here? Yah, it could be 1-2 spots higher, but we splitting hair then.
 
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We don't even deserve to be 8. Number 9 or 10 is more suited to our level at the moment. I'm sad the Windies missed out on CT because of us. They would have given more fight to India.
 
Well I would've said we're better than Sri Lanka but that Dickwalla guy is better than any of our openers in terms of power hitting.
 
Shaik said:
They don't deserve no.8, rather no.9.

It is WICB's bizarre selections, which are keeping the West Indies at 9.

In no way Pakistan is better than West Indies in ODI's.
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West Indies weren't world beaters even with their rebel T20 contingent.

But I would say they have better power hitters than us, I'd love to have an Evin Lewis or Jason Mohammed.
 
Is Pakistan rightly positioned as World No. 8 behind SL and Bangladesh?

Looking into the ICC ODI ratings that positions Pak at the 8th position makes me question the validity or relevance of these. Pak has definetely played better cricket and have better players than Sri Lanka and Bangladesh for sure. Moreover opposition teams are more worried facing Pakistan than SL or Bangladesh.

The ruthlessness with which Pak demolished the WI team at their own backyard in all 3 formats not so long ago speaks volumes of their ability as a team - not something SL or Bang can boast of. Even with the retirement of YK and Misbah, Pak still has a world class setup comprising of Aamir, Hasan Ali, Shadab Khan, Junaid Khan, Wahab, Shoaib Malik, Babar is anything but a bottom ranked team. Their bowling is world class that can trouble any of the top ranked sides. They also have Sohail Khan, Fahim Ashraf, Haris warming the bench all dangerous players on their day.

Their only flaw is that they are not themselves when they play against their arch rivals in ICC tourneys. They can beat any side on their day, something that cannot be said of SL, Bang or NZ.

Your thoughts. Please do not bring in their performance yesterday in defence of their rankings.
 
stevewittry said:
Looking into the ICC ODI ratings that positions Pak at the 8th position makes me question the validity or relevance of these.
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Last 3 years against the top 8 ranked teams,

rank_odi.jpg

You could make a case of Pakistan being 7th or stretch it to even 6th, but W/L of 0.3 against top 8 is responsible for 8th ranked and I don't think that 8th rank is not deserved.
 
Buffet said:
Last 3 years against the top 8 ranked teams,

View attachment 74558

You could make a case of Pakistan being 7th or stretch it to even 6th, but W/L of 0.3 against top 8 is responsible for 8th ranked and I don't think that 8th rank is not deserved.
Click to expand...

Based on these stats they are actually 9th. Lucky that rankings put them at 8.
 
Should be relegated to the depths beyond Associate nation level leagues.
 
sam_ahm said:
Based on these stats they are actually 9th. Lucky that rankings put them at 8.
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This stats doesn't include Pakistan's wins vs WI and also it's pure stats without any context. I meant how many wins vs top 2-3 or how many wins vs ranked 6-7. So we can't say that it's lucky for Pakistani to be ranked at 8th looking at above stats. Above stats was just for reference to show that 8th spot is due to how Pakistan has performed against teams ranked higher than 8th. You don't earn many points by beating 9th ranked teams if you are ranked 8th.
 
I think it's a bit too high TBH, in a few years WI and Afghanistan should be ranked higher.
 
Buffet said:
This stats doesn't include Pakistan's wins vs WI and also it's pure stats without any context. I meant how many wins vs top 2-3 or how many wins vs ranked 6-7. So we can't say that it's lucky for Pakistani to be ranked at 8th looking at above stats. Above stats was just for reference to show that 8th spot is due to how Pakistan has performed against teams ranked higher than 8th. You don't earn many points by beating 9th ranked teams if you are ranked 8th.
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I understand mate, i pretty much follow cricket of all countries, Pakistan are rightly ranked 8th atm, no excuses.
 
Buffet said:
This stats doesn't include Pakistan's wins vs WI and also it's pure stats without any context. I meant how many wins vs top 2-3 or how many wins vs ranked 6-7. So we can't say that it's lucky for Pakistani to be ranked at 8th looking at above stats. Above stats was just for reference to show that 8th spot is due to how Pakistan has performed against teams ranked higher than 8th. You don't earn many points by beating 9th ranked teams if you are ranked 8th.
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Can we have a look at the rankings after 2015 post Misbah's retirement I am pretty sure its much better
Plus we played majority of our matches in Australia in England in NZ where teams like India also suffered heavy defeats
 
IndYeah1 said:
Bangladesh have better batting than Pak. By a comfortable distance. And SL have started to rebuild nicely. Pak is in danger of falling behind both teams.
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I agree, SLN might have lost their last series to Pakistan but they seem to be rebuilding better than Pakistan who are going nowhere.

As for Bangladesh, even right now if we switch on our TV sets we will understand that Bangladesh have a far better line up than Pakistan who can actually take the attack to Australia unlike Pakistan.
 
sam_ahm said:
I agree, SLN might have lost their last series to Pakistan but they seem to be rebuilding better than Pakistan who are going nowhere.

As for Bangladesh, even right now if we switch on our TV sets we will understand that Bangladesh have a far better line up than Pakistan who can actually take the attack to Australia unlike Pakistan.
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Yes 128 for 4 in 31 overs is so attacking?
We won at the MCG a few months ago and bowled Aussies out for 220 in their own den something the other Asian teams are still struggling to do!
 
Bleedgreen4ever said:
Can we have a look at the rankings after 2015 post Misbah's retirement I am pretty sure its much better
Plus we played majority of our matches in Australia in England in NZ where teams like India also suffered heavy defeats
Click to expand...

I think you meant W/L record after Misbah retired otherwise Pakistan has occupied 8th for most of that period.

I looked it up and Pakistan has 6 wins and 19 losses against top 8 ranked sides after Misbah retired. W/L of 0.31. In that period , SL has W/L of 0.25 and WI has 0.29. So Pakistan is marginally ahead, but still a narrow band with SL and WI.
 
So.... All that pakistani fan could come up with is win against WI..... you aren't setting the bar high I must say.

If you have to define your ability by a series against WI, then it is unfortunate.
 
Itachi said:
So.... All that pakistani fan could come up with is win against WI..... you aren't setting the bar high I must say.

If you have to define your ability by a series against WI, then it is unfortunate.
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buddy if you see above what he say then you will get what i was saying
 
Bangladesh is a better ODI team, no doubt there.

I will rate SL higher because they have some good hitters in their team. I think they will sort out their batting problems in an year or so.
 
Buffet said:
I think you meant W/L record after Misbah retired otherwise Pakistan has occupied 8th for most of that period.

I looked it up and Pakistan has 6 wins and 19 losses against top 8 ranked sides after Misbah retired. W/L of 0.31. In that period , SL has W/L of 0.25 and WI has 0.29. So Pakistan is marginally ahead, but still a narrow band with SL and WI.
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But it is ahead isnt it?
Plus Pakistan played majority of its matches in Australia,England,Bangladesh,NZ we only had two home series!
 
Bleedgreen4ever said:
But it is ahead isnt it?
Plus Pakistan played majority of its matches in Australia,England,Bangladesh,NZ we only had two home series!
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More home series should help with W/L, but it won't help too much due to Pakistan not having very good W/L even in UAE. By very good I meant, 2,3 or 4 kind of W/L at home. That can seriously lift the W/L and ranking.
 
Absolutely. We're only better than the Windies. Bangladesh are a superior team to us in every aspect, only the haters and jingoists fail to see that. Any objective fan would realize it. And Sri Lanka look like they are finally on the right track with a good crop of players coming up, with a better batting line up than ours.

In this day and age, you need a batting lineup that can consistently score you 300+ runs in order to be competitive. Both the Lankans and Bangladeshis have that. Pakistan is abysmal in every facet of the game.
 
Yes.

The irony is that if we played well vs India or reach SF miraculously, the whole culture of our cricket won't change. But if we fail, we're asked for 'stability' and we'll get more test match players in the ODI side.

It's a lose-lose situation tbh, I don't know what it'll take to change the fortunes of our cricket team.
 
idrizzy said:
Yes.

The irony is that if we played well vs India or reach SF miraculously, the whole culture of our cricket won't change. But if we fail, we're asked for 'stability' and we'll get more test match players in the ODI side.

It's a lose-lose situation tbh, I don't know what it'll take to change the fortunes of our cricket team.
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Misbah Syndrome will take at least decade to eradicate. Unless our fans and people in PCB embrace and respect modern day cricket we are not going anywhere.

When other teams were planning to chase 300+ totals ahead of this CT our selectors were busy thinking about playing out 50 overs in English conditions which is why we havt to go through torture of seeing Azhar Ali.

A complete revolution is required.
 
Buffet said:
More home series should help with W/L, but it won't help too much due to Pakistan not having very good W/L even in UAE. By very good I meant, 2,3 or 4 kind of W/L at home. That can seriously lift the W/L and ranking.
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We beat WI 3-0 at UAE
Lost to England 3-1!
 
I think Pakistan have lost home series to South Africa, New Zealand, England and Australia, let alone away series, and they also lost away series to Bangladesh, except WI and SLN, Pakistan have not beaten any other significant team even at home.

Compare that to any other nation, even Bangladesh, they have a good home record. Again Sri Lanka and WI are the other countries who have been losing home series lately and hence their ranking is also low. SLN atm may look bad but I still genuinely believe they are rebuilding better than Pakistan.

Having said all that I was a big fan of cricket, Wasim Akram remains my cricketing hero, so please this is not from any hater, I'd love to see Pakistan unearth some really good talent and be that dangerous side again.
 
No, For me this Pakistan Team is still better than Bangla, SL, WI, and NZ. We have been unpredictable for years, even with Wasim, Waqar and company we were never consistent but we always fought hard. This current team is not useless. These lads are good enough to give others a run for their money but they lack intent. Once they'll start wining, there will be nothing stopping them. Just include two power hitters in the current playing XI and BOOM (We'll be in top 3 in no time).
 
iaakash said:
no, for me this pakistan team is still better than bangla, sl, wi, and nz. We have been unpredictable for years, even with wasim, waqar and company we were never consistent but we always fought hard. This current team is not useless. These lads are good enough to give others a run for their money but they lack intent. Once they'll start wining, there will be nothing stopping them. Just include two power hitters in the current playing xi and boom (we'll be in top 3 in no time).
Click to expand...

thiss potw!
 
Buffet said:
Last 3 years against the top 8 ranked teams,

View attachment 74558

You could make a case of Pakistan being 7th or stretch it to even 6th, but W/L of 0.3 against top 8 is responsible for 8th ranked and I don't think that 8th rank is not deserved.
Click to expand...

Man Australia is just at a whole new level even with their weakest sides!
 
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