Do we (Pakistanis) want/should have good relations with Israel?

[Icon]

Discuss.

 

[Varun]

Shouldn't even be a question.

What have the Arabs ever done for you?

 

[JaDed]

For starters you should recognize em, also I remember reading a Dawn article about how the origins of both countries are similar.

Second just like Pakistan,Israel is surrounded by hostile nations wanting to destroy it.(Atleast thats the narrative).

 

[sweep_shot]

Boycott of Israel should continue. It is a matter of principle.

 

[JaDed]

Boycott of Israel should continue. It is a matter of principle.

You live in Canada, doesnt your salary deposit in a bank? Don’t you have a loan? Where’s your principle on interest rate?

 

[sweep_shot]

You live in Canada, doesnt your salary deposit in a bank? Don’t you have a loan? Where’s your principle on interest rate?

I do not receive interest from bank. I keep it in a chequing account.

What Israel has been doing to Palestinians is good enough reason to boycott Israel. It is an illegitimate country.

 

[JaDed]

I do not receive interest from bank. I keep it in a chequing account.

What Israel has been doing to Palestinians is good enough reason to boycott Israel. It is an illegitimate country.

Ok , good to know you are never going to have mortgage and hopefully you buy car on cash.

 

[Varun]

What Israel has been doing to Palestinians is good enough reason to boycott Israel. It is an illegitimate country.

Too true. You need to head to Toronto Person Intl, leave the country that does billions in trade with Israel, and head to Algeria.

Now that is a country that knows how to boycott Israel through and through. What're you waiting for?

 

[sweep_shot]

Too true. You need to head to Toronto Person Intl, leave the country that does billions in trade with Israel, and head to Algeria.

Now that is a country that knows how to boycott Israel through and through. What're you waiting for?

I love Canada. This is my home. No need to move anywhere.

Just because Canada does trade with Israel doesn't mean I have to support that. I can lawfully disagree with it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Shouldn't even be a question.

What have the Arabs ever done for you?

Provided a lot of money mostly. albeit at the cost of accepting their doctrines.

I wonder what Israel could do for Pakistan if the country were to move towards them?

 

[Syed1]

Too true. You need to head to Toronto Person Intl, leave the country that does billions in trade with Israel, and head to Algeria.

Now that is a country that knows how to boycott Israel through and through. What're you waiting for?

It might be a foreign concept for Indians, but Canadians can disagree with what their government is doing without having to be told to leave the country or have their voices muzzled.

 

[sweep_shot]

You people are not getting something simple.

Muslims are against Zionism only. We are not against Jews.

I have no issues with Jews but I am against Zionists, Zionism, and state of Israel.

Judaism and Zionism are two different things. Zionism is political while Judaism is religious.

Jews are ahlul qitab (people of the book) and it is permissible for a Muslim man to marry a Jewish woman.

By the way, many orthodox Jews are also against the concept of Israel:

 

[Savak]

I work a Jewish Accounting firm. In a very brutal field, industry and after having gone through a lot of brutal firms, I have to admit they have been my best employer so far and they really do take care of their employees.

Similarly have absolutely no idea why we continue to ignore, boycott Israel. Palestinians and the Arabs have unequivocally always sided with Israel on all issues including Kashmir with India against Pakistan

 

[TSA321]

You should aim to have good relations with all countries, including Israel.

 

[Varun]

Provided a lot of money mostly. albeit at the cost of accepting their doctrines.

I wonder what Israel could do for Pakistan if the country were to move towards them?

Israel will help Pakistan in the fields of technology, defense and agriculture. They are also one of the many outlets to touch base with some significant powers that be of the USA. And if India is any evidence, the Arabs will be indifferent to Pakistan crafting ties with Israel. Just pay them the petrodollar for the barrels and life will go on.

It might be a foreign concept for Indians, but Canadians can disagree with what their government is doing without having to be told to leave the country or have their voices muzzled.

Do the same in Pakistan. Let Pakistan have diplomatic relations with Israel, you are totally free to "oppose it" and get on with your lives. Imran Khan is part of a democracy, is he not?

Also, stop kidding yourself. You're in Canada for the moolah and whatever they do, they do without your consultation and you just have to grin and bear it.

 

[Jin Chacha]

Even if having relations with Israel was in the best interest of Pakistan (which is debatable) there is no way anyone would do it. The negative public sentiment would be too strong and any leader who does this would be signing his political death sentence. A bit like how US leaders can’t go against Israel irrespective of US national interest because the political cost is too high.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Israel will help Pakistan in the fields of technology, defense and agriculture. They are also one of the many outlets to touch base with some significant powers that be of the USA. And if India is any evidence, the Arabs will be indifferent to Pakistan crafting ties with Israel. Just pay them the petrodollar for the barrels and life will go on.

How do you know that Israel will help Pakistan with defence? Even USA which has sold Pakistan $billions worth of arms will safeguard their leading technology from clients like Pakistan, I can't imagine Israel being any different. Agriculture? Yes I suppose, but they could get that help from somewhere else.

As I said, Pakistan has taken a lot of funds from Arab countries, there is no harm in doing business with Israel but the payback would have to be commensurate with the losses incurred for P 'ing off the Arabs.

 

[Varun]

How do you know that Israel will help Pakistan with defence? Even USA which has sold Pakistan $billions worth of arms will safeguard their leading technology from clients like Pakistan, I can't imagine Israel being any different. Agriculture? Yes I suppose, but they could get that help from somewhere else.

As I said, Pakistan has taken a lot of funds from Arab countries, there is no harm in doing business with Israel but the payback would have to be commensurate with the losses incurred for P 'ing off the Arabs.

But you have to start somewhere - baby steps made today will be well worth it tomorrow, economically or otherwise. Anything is better than pretending they don't exist while being trampled upon by the Arabs at every turn and corner, which is what is happening today.

Again - if India is of any evidence, the Arabs will be indifferent to Pakistan forging ties with Israel. Those days are long gone.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But you have to start somewhere - baby steps made today will be well worth it tomorrow, economically or otherwise. Anything is better than pretending they don't exist while being trampled upon by the Arabs at every turn and corner, which is what is happening today.

Again - if India is of any evidence, the Arabs will be indifferent to Pakistan forging ties with Israel. Those days are long gone.

I agree Pakistan has no reason to take a hostile stance towards Israel, but for both countries it will be quid pro quo. Israel has to offer something which is going to make up for loss of support from Arab countries.

You say anything is better than being trampled upon by Arabs, can you give any examples of how this is happening?

 

[Abdullah719]

Even if having relations with Israel was in the best interest of Pakistan (which is debatable) there is no way anyone would do it. The negative public sentiment would be too strong and any leader who does this would be signing his political death sentence. A bit like how US leaders can’t go against Israel irrespective of US national interest because the political cost is too high.

This, basically. It will not happen, no matter what.

 

[PakLFC]

We can never recognise Israel not because we love Arabs but it means accepting Zionism. Arab's who accept Israel do so because they realise doing so saves them from Zionist bombardment. We can fight Israel if needed where as they will be crushed by them in no time. Arab'b countries combined are nothing in front of Israel, forget it! Better for them to recognise Israel then be slaughtered by them.

 

[Varun]

You say anything is better than being trampled upon by Arabs, can you give any examples of how this is happening?

So many examples. Just to list a few:

1. The recent expulsion of Pakistani doctors, dentists etc. from Saudi shores. To go with not allowing any marriages between Saudis and Pakistanis a few years ago. Ironically, they can still marry Indians - the "kaffirs".

2. Invitation of India into the OIC against Pakistani wishes, with Sushma Swaraj being a main speaker and allowed to condemn Pakistan at every turn and corner in her speech.

3. Palestinian leaders inviting Modi with open arms minutes after he was in Israel, a supposed enemy of Pakistan and the Muslim world.

4. The likes of UAE and Bahrain conferring awards on the Indian PM days after whatever has happened in Kashmir.

...dozens of others outside of these in the last few years.

 

[Icon]

So many examples. Just to list a few:

1. The recent expulsion of Pakistani doctors, dentists etc. from Saudi shores. To go with not allowing any marriages between Saudis and Pakistanis a few years ago. Ironically, they can still marry Indians - the "kaffirs".

2. Invitation of India into the OIC against Pakistani wishes, with Sushma Swaraj being a main speaker and allowed to condemn Pakistan at every turn and corner in her speech.

3. Palestinian leaders inviting Modi with open arms minutes after he was in Israel, a supposed enemy of Pakistan and the Muslim world.

4. The likes of UAE and Bahrain conferring awards on the Indian PM days after whatever has happened in Kashmir.

...dozens of others outside of these in the last few years.

The Pakistani doctors being expelled from the country was because of the degrees. You want them to keep doctors who are not even properly qualified?
Also I didn't know all Indians were kaffirs.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So many examples. Just to list a few:

1. The recent expulsion of Pakistani doctors, dentists etc. from Saudi shores. To go with not allowing any marriages between Saudis and Pakistanis a few years ago. Ironically, they can still marry Indians - the "kaffirs".

2. Invitation of India into the OIC against Pakistani wishes, with Sushma Swaraj being a main speaker and allowed to condemn Pakistan at every turn and corner in her speech.

3. Palestinian leaders inviting Modi with open arms minutes after he was in Israel, a supposed enemy of Pakistan and the Muslim world.

4. The likes of UAE and Bahrain conferring awards on the Indian PM days after whatever has happened in Kashmir.

...dozens of others outside of these in the last few years.

The first one has already been answered by Icon in the reply above. Being a Muslim by birth or nationality doesn't entitle anyone to cheat, lie or commit fraud.

The others are individual countries, they are within their rights to support whoever they like, whether Muslim brothers or "kaffirs" as you so eloquently put it. Pakistan should also reciprocate in like fashion. Palestine, UAE and Bahrain can be treated quid pro quo as I already suggested.

Same goes for Israel as I already said. Pakistan can have good relations with them if it is overall beneficial, but it takes two to tango. We don't know that Israel as a Zionist country is prepared to share anything with Pakistan in good faith. There are a lot of assumptions here, we can only speculate how it would actually pan out.

 

[dhump]

We should have friendly relations with all the countries in the world.

 

[dhump]

I love Canada. This is my home. No need to move anywhere.

Just because Canada does trade with Israel doesn't mean I have to support that. I can lawfully disagree with it.

So as a Canadian are you part of some movement for Canada to deny Israel and stop doing bussiness with them ?

 

[sweep_shot]

So as a Canadian are you part of some movement for Canada to deny Israel and stop doing bussiness with them ?

I am not part of any movement. I am a regular citizen with normal life. But, I am against Zionism and state of Israel. I don't recognize it just like many others.

Not everyone in North America supports Israel. Many of the Alt-Right folks are anti-Israel too.

There is an orthodox Jewish group called Neturei Karta. They are Jews themselves and they are strongly against state of Israel. They have branch in Canada.

 

[sweep_shot]

Theologically speaking, state of Israel is illegitimate. It is why unorthodox Jews like Neturei Karta (who I consider as real practicing Jews) oppose it. You can watch this documentary here:

Rabbi here clearly explains why state of Israel is theologically illegitimate. This guy is a practicing Jew, BTW.

I love my Jewish brothers and sisters. I only oppose Zionism, Zionists, and Israel. Judaism and Zionism are not the same thing.

 

[warcry]

on the contrary, i would like to see india and its people treated on par with israel and its people.

 

[Varun]

I mean, if you're not going to start relations with Israel and are hellbent on the Palestinian cause, you should at least follow through and liberate the damn thing. It's been 70 long years.

Otherwise what's the point of enjoying the worst of both worlds.

Applies to Kashmir too, mind you. Endless whingeing, zero result.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I mean, if you're not going to start relations with Israel and are hellbent on the Palestinian cause, you should at least follow through and liberate the damn thing. It's been 70 long years.

Otherwise what's the point of enjoying the worst of both worlds.

Applies to Kashmir too, mind you. Endless whingeing, zero result.

Is Pakistan hellbent on the Palestinian cause? What are they doing for Palestine at this current time?

 

[dhump]

I am not part of any movement. I am a regular citizen with normal life. But, I am against Zionism and state of Israel. I don't recognize it just like many others.

Not everyone in North America supports Israel. Many of the Alt-Right folks are anti-Israel too.

There is an orthodox Jewish group called Neturei Karta. They are Jews themselves and they are strongly against state of Israel. They have branch in Canada.

But none of that was the question you mentioned that it is a matter of principle not to recognize Israel and Pakistan must not do it. You are a Canadian, and you want Pakistan not to accept another country but you in your own country living quietly and not doing anything against that country?

It seems like your principles don't apply to yourself.

 

[rhony]

Considering all the animosity so far, relations with Israel can't be just for show. It has to be full diplomatic relations with trade and a visit by the PM. That would mean alienating the Arabs further. The advantages can be enormous considering the powerful Jewish lobby. However there wouldn't be much change in the Indo Israeli relations due to business reasons.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Considering all the animosity so far, relations with Israel can't be just for show. It has to be full diplomatic relations with trade and a visit by the PM. That would mean alienating the Arabs further. The advantages can be enormous considering the powerful Jewish lobby. However there wouldn't be much change in the Indo Israeli relations due to business reasons.

Israel is a committed Zionist nation, a lot of people seem to be forgetting this. They may only want relations for their own purposes, and it may be that the Jewish lobby would be wary of sharing too much which would be advantageous to a Muslim country.

Seems to me Indian members are selling this idea without any concrete notion of how it would work.

 

[rhony]

Israel is a committed Zionist nation, a lot of people seem to be forgetting this. They may only want relations for their own purposes, and it may be that the Jewish lobby would be wary of sharing too much which would be advantageous to a Muslim country.

Seems to me Indian members are selling this idea without any concrete notion of how it would work.

Pakistan can't embrace close Israeli relations until they accept Israeli state with it's Zionist ambitions. You can't be friends with someone if you question their existence. There are short term and long term strategies in any bilateral relationship. The Saudis could be a good model for Pak in Israeli relations. As far as advantages go, what do you currently hold with the animosity towards Israel?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan can't embrace close Israeli relations until they accept Israeli state with it's Zionist ambitions. You can't be friends with someone if you question their existence. There are short term and long term strategies in any bilateral relationship. The Saudis could be a good model for Pak in Israeli relations. As far as advantages go, what do you currently hold with the animosity towards Israel?

Pakistan has received a lot of funding from Saudi in particular. I have no idea if these are tied to the Pakistan stance on recognition of Israel, but Pakistan can look at both sides as to where their interests lie. With Arab countries or with Israel. Could be they could have good relations with both, or if not, then would have to be whichever provides better outcome for Pakistan.

It may well be that even if Pakistan accepts Israel they would still consider Pakistan as a potential enemy because of Islamic population, similar to how Europe sees Turkey.

 

[sweep_shot]

I mean, if you're not going to start relations with Israel and are hellbent on the Palestinian cause, you should at least follow through and liberate the damn thing. It's been 70 long years.

Otherwise what's the point of enjoying the worst of both worlds.

Applies to Kashmir too, mind you. Endless whingeing, zero result.

Liberating is very easy. Israel is a tiny land. Couple of missiles can wipe out Israel. Problem is, many innocent people would die unnecessarily. That's why, things need to be done slowly.

Palestine issue is not just Arab issue. It is a Muslim issue. Muslims worldwide care about it. Israel is in charge of Jerusalem which contains the 3rd holiest site in Islam. That's what this is about.

Don't worry. Israel will be defeated. It is in our end times prophecies. Muslims will eventually get it back. But, it may be with Zionists for a while.

 

[Varun]

Is Pakistan hellbent on the Palestinian cause? What are they doing for Palestine at this current time?

Besides not having any relations whatsoever with Israel, Pakistan helps Palestine by way of funds through a credit line, export of foodstuffs at prices below the market rates and lobbying in various international forums. Not to forget the endless pro-Palestinian / anti-Israeli PR both by Pakistani politicians and citizens at the arena of the day.

---

By the way, I came across this article yesterday. Pasting it below:

Possibility of Diplomatic Ties between Pakistan & Israel

Not recognizing someone is equally capable of challenging its ability, status and presence. If the matter pertains to recognizing a nation or country then its more serious issue because when a country refuses to accept any country it announces its open enmity with it invites its attention against itself. The person who does not recognize remains in its pride whereby the other group remains active every moment for its survival. This is the exact situation of Pakistan and Israel. There is no dispute between these two countries, neither our borders meet nor any problem of Kashmir exist between the two. But, still the countries are facing a terrible type distress that is rising day by day. Some of our loud boasts also provide the opportunity to other to be protective and find a way to attack on each other. There are many countries in the world where I have not got the opportunity and time to go yet, but I do not worry about them, because I am encouraged and confident that whenever I want to visit any country, I can go there but since I read a very unique journey to Israel, and then heard about it from a dear friend

Dr. Sohail at Beena Goindi’s house about the holy places in Israel, I am have developed a strange feeling of neglect. The land where the statues and beliefs of the history of every one are etiquette, where millions of people on the Crying wall of the valley have written their names and touched them. We do not have access to it. Israel is the title of Jacob, which means Abdullah, the servant of God and his children are called Israel. Jacob is recognized as a prophet by Muslims, Christians, and Jewish’s.

Apart from Israel, the word “Valid” for all countries makes fun of me and puts a lot of questions before me. I still cannot understand that in this advanced age what reasons make us not recognize Israel. If Israel and Palestinian conflict is made a basis for not recognizing each other, then one should know that Palestine is more supportive of India than Pakistan. Many times, Palestine to show its support for India has called back its ambassador to Pakistan. If this point is made the basis then we should not accept India, because the oppression carried out in Kashmir is more extensive and cruel as compared to Palestine. India interrupts in our internal affairs. It intrigues with neighbor countries against us. Innocent people die in border clashes, but we strive for peace and maintaining good neighborhood.

The thing to remember is that the freedom of Palestine is not just the problem of Muslims. Some of Yasser Arafat’s freedom fighters are Christians and they are still involved in the joint struggle for freedom. It is also a fact that Israel has not occupied Palestine, but purchased land from Palestine and established them. Thus, it is the mistake of the Palestinians that they have created such opportunities. There are many common things between the Israelites and Muslims related to religious, history and belief. For example, both have books and marriage can done between the two without changing religion.

The mention of the children of Israel is the highest in the Qur’an. Judaism like Islam is a divine religion. Most prophets came to the children of Israel. There are many burials of Prophets near the Masjid Aqsa. Muslims and Jews have common great grand-father. Muslims send blessings to Abraham in every worship but practically behave differently. Similarly, the beliefs of both Divinity and slaughtering are also shared. Having seeing so many commonalities I don’t find any reason for not recognizing Israel.

Islam teaches lesson of reforming. It teaches us to change with the variations of changing era. The Quranic verses need to be understood in a broader context. Islam does not belief in restriction and cutting away from the era. In the context of time-related matters, the verses revealed should be taken in that context only, because today it is not Jewish and Christian, but different sects of Muslims are engaged in fight with each other and give fatwa’s of infidels against each other.

Israel has very friendly relations with other Arab and Islamic countries, including Saudi Arabia, but Pakistan has a problem. At present, the majority of invention in the world is made by Jewish nation, which we utilize with full pleasure. From our mosques to Beth-Allah, there is light due to their invention. If we cannot recognize Israel by being scared of fatwa’s and slogans, then we must also remove Israel from our home. We have to dismantle our rides, declare rebellion against media of communication and even have to abandon every item on which there is a mark of their struggle.

There is a need to increase diplomatic relations in the world’s global image. The present government where it has taken many brave steps it should recognize Israel and start its journey of peace with the powerful countries of the world. The opposition and religious parties should not play politics because the matter is not of religion. If it was so than all Islamic countries should have stood by us, but even our neighbors are not with us. To come out from solitarily and attain economic sustainability we have to take tough decisions.

There may be many problems with Israel, we may have ideological, political and other differences, but what the rest of the world are bathed in milk. Do we have hundred percent ideological harmonies with them whom we have approved? It’s about to think. I want to visit that holy land, which was a long time in the steps of the great and glorious prophets of Abraham, Isaac and Hazrat Jacob. I want to breathe in that air which still maintains spiritual advancement, I want to feel part of the scene in the imagination, in which the magic is attractive, and I want to sit below the Crying wall and cry a lot. After all, why do not I be allowed permission to go to the burials of those prophets which are mentioned in the Qur’an and also have relation with my Holy Prophet (SAW).

https://dailytimes.com.pk/456485/possibility-of-diplomatic-ties-between-pakistan-israel/

 

[Mamoon]

It should have happened in the 60s after the Six Day War, but as usual, we are incredibly slow to learn. This nation is fueled on rhetoric and sensationalism. Our foreign policy has been a disaster since day one.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Besides not having any relations whatsoever with Israel, Pakistan helps Palestine by way of funds through a credit line, export of foodstuffs at prices below the market rates and lobbying in various international forums. Not to forget the endless pro-Palestinian / anti-Israeli PR both by Pakistani politicians and citizens at the arena of the day.

---

By the way, I came across this article yesterday. Pasting it below:

I have already said that all relations with other countries should be viewed with a fresh eye depending on current circumstances. This should be the same for Israel as it would be for any other country. Of course that country would also need to show a secular approach wrt to Pakistan and not regard it as a future enemy based on Islamic population.

I have no idea what the current relationship is with Palestine, but if Pakistan is not getting anything back for their support then they should really stay out of it.

I keep reading about the need for good relations with Israel on these forums, but I think Pakistan should look to improve ties with countries closer to home such as Iran and Sri Lanka. Israel is really just a hot topic for Muslamics and Indian posters to be quite frank.

 

[AdamM97]

Theologically speaking, state of Israel is illegitimate. It is why unorthodox Jews like Neturei Karta (who I consider as real practicing Jews) oppose it. You can watch this documentary here:

Rabbi here clearly explains why state of Israel is theologically illegitimate. This guy is a practicing Jew, BTW.

I love my Jewish brothers and sisters. I only oppose Zionism, Zionists, and Israel. Judaism and Zionism are not the same thing.

It's really interesting how ultra-orthodox Jews were against the creation of Israel. Even hardcore religious Muslims in India were against the creation of Pakistan. So many similarities.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan should not punish the Palestinians to get back at Arabs!

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Nope, never. It's occupied land and most of them are not even actual Jews. Only by name.

 

[AdamM97]

Whether or not we want to recognize Israel or not, there is a lot we can learn from them.

As someone said above, Pakistan and Israel are very similar in that they’re sorrounded by enemies on many fronts.
Israel spends 4.3% of it’s GDP on the military while we spend 4.0%. Despite that, Israel has some of the best scientists, a well educated society and people that run huge corporations.
We should learn that from them irrespective of our opinions on Israel.

 

[Savak]

Can the benefits if any from recognizing Israel be greater than the negative repurcusions to Pakistan from the Arab world?

 

[Varun]

Can the benefits if any from recognizing Israel be greater than the negative repurcusions to Pakistan from the Arab world?

India hasn't faced any repercussions since they established diplomatic relations in 1991/2.

 

[Manunited18]

It should have happened in the 60s after the Six Day War, but as usual, we are incredibly slow to learn. This nation is fueled on rhetoric and sensationalism. Our foreign policy has been a disaster since day one.

"We", come on Mr chameleon why change your colours

 

[Savak]

India hasn't faced any repercussions since they established diplomatic relations in 1991/2.

Pakistan being a Muslim country will be judged differently

 

[Ronaldo7]

India hasn't faced any repercussions since they established diplomatic relations in 1991/2.

So?
Is India a muslim country?

 

[AdamM97]

Pakistan being a Muslim country will be judged differently

Saudi and UAE won’t mind since they have backdoor diplomacy with the Israelis but our relationship with Iran will become more strained.

Pakistan needs to have good relations with iran, we can’t afford a 3rd neighbour that is hostile towards us.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Well, we know what the government wants...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All ******** whats the difference in Modi and NetanYahu? They are Two sides of the same coin, why would you take trolls or Maulana Fazal Ur Rehman so seriously ? No Q of Ties with Israel <a href="https://t.co/v39MLbByjD">https://t.co/v39MLbByjD</a></p>— Ch Fawad Hussain (@fawadchaudhry) <a href="https://twitter.com/fawadchaudhry/status/1168460819232960513?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 2, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Thursday made it clear that there was no move under way to recognise Israel.

“…… such actions are part of baseless propaganda. There is no change in our policy. Our policy of non-recognition of Israel remains unchanged,” Foreign Office spokesman Dr Mohammad Faisal told a weekly press briefing.

The remarks came in response to a question about whether Pakistan was planning to recognise Israel at a time when the subject of diplomatic ties with Israel — once a taboo issue — appears to be open for public discourse after a detailed article published in an Israeli paper is doing the rounds on social media.

Spokesman rejects reports Saudi and UAE FMs had said Kashmir dispute should not be linked to ummah

Asked to comment on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s announcement that he would immediately annex a part of the occupied West Bank (Jordan Valley) if re-elected next week, Dr Faisal said: “We reject any such move which will be illegal and a dangerous escalation. While reaffirming our solidarity with the Palestinians, Pakistan reiterates its support for a viable, independent and contiguous State of Palestine, on the basis of internationally agreed parameters, the pre-1967 borders with Al-Quds Al-Sharif as its capital.”

About recent cancellation of a meeting between US President Donald Trump and Taliban leaders at Camp David, he said Pakistan wanted all sides to exercise restraint and refrain from violence.

“We have encouraged and facilitated the Afghan peace process in good faith and as a shared responsibility. We shall continue to monitor the situation and urge all parties to return to the negotiations table to take the progress achieved in the talks so far to its logical conclusion.”

The FO spokesman said Pakistan has always maintained that the only solution to the Afghan conflict lies in a politically negotiated settlement led and owned by the Afghans themselves. A military-focused approach has failed to render the desired results. “We remain hopeful that the peace talks between the US and the Afghan Taliban would be resumed at the earliest and process will lead to intra-Afghan negotiations which are imperative for finding durable and sustainable peace in Afghanistan. We hope that the momentum, so generated, will be maintained by the international stakeholders for a peaceful outcome in Afghanistan.”

Kashmir dispute
He rejected as speculative the reports that the Saudi and UAE foreign ministers during their joint visit to Pakistan last week had emphasised that the Jammu and Kashmir dispute should not be linked to ummah.

“The legality and international legitimacy of the Jammu & Kashmir dispute is derived from the UNSC resolutions. This is a well-known fact. During the visit, the two ministers reaffirmed Saudi Arabia’s and UAE’s solidarity with Pakistan and support for the Jammu & Kashmir cause,” he remarked.

Answering another question, he said many countries have offered mediation between Pakistan and India. “However, we cannot move forward unless India agrees to accept these offers.”

To another question, he said there was no backchannel diplomacy going on between Pakistan and India.

In response to a question, Dr Faisal said Pakistan has a considered position that the unilateral actions taken by India on Aug 5 were illegal and illegitimate. There should be no change in the status of the Jammu & Kashmir, as enshrined in the UNSC Resolutions.

In his opening remarks, he said the Indian occupation forces in their recent acts of state terrorism have martyred three Kashmiris in the so-called cordon and search operations, including Asrar Ahmad Khan, Reyaz Ahmad Thekri and Asif Maqbool Bhat in Handwara and Sopore towns of held Kashmir while hundreds have sustained injuries. There are reports of more deaths but due to complete communication blackout exact details are not coming out of the valley.

He said the India-held Kashmir remains under siege and cut off from the rest of the world for 40th consecutive days as the Indian occupation forces continue to impose an unprecedented military lockdown and total clampdown of both road networks and all means of communications, which risk lives of people. “These inhuman and unilateral actions by India are continuing without any respite despite international condemnation and censure.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1504894/no-move-under-way-to-recognise-israel-fo

 

[imrankhannsu]

Good relations can be maintained by having no relations at all.

If one is to diplomatically have ties with Israel, it will be difficult to maintain a good one to oppose what their government are doing regularly on Palestine.

However then again from a political point of view, Pakistan might want to think of maintaing one especially when India is becoming to chummy with Israel.

 

[ArendtFan]

Israel has a layered friendship system. Their evaluation of 'friends' is at 2 levels. One - civilisational support and two - tactical support. USA, India and China are the 3 nations that they consider 'civilisational supporters' - these countries have never in their history, marginalised or attacked Jews. All 3 nations have welcomed Jewish refugees, India and China doing so since Babylonian rule.

When the Nazi government took away passports of Jewish elites, the American ambassador shipped them out of Germany with American visas sans passports. As all of us know, these elites eventually became influential political lobbies and have garnered large scale Republican & Christian support for Israel in the US.

David Ben Gurion referred to India and China as great civilisations who will become great powers in the future. He made Albert Einstein write to Nehru to recognise the new state of Israel which India refused to do so for a long time. Israel has invested in Indian relations for decades, not just in technology and defence but also agriculture and tourism - India is the favourite getaway for Israeli soldiers after their mandatory military service. It has the reputation of a place of healing for veterans suffering from PTSD (Mcleodgunj )

Surprisingly, China and Israel never developed as close allies and one can put it down to a difference in temperament. China has a 'lone wolf' mindset whereas India has never shirked to seek support in areas that it was lacking. Case in point - India's space program and also the IITs. Also, India with its 200 million integrated Muslim population and good relations with Arab countries could be an effective lobbying power with the Arabs.

Pakistan, at best would come in as a 'tactical support friend' - there is great potential in that considering that Pakistan is the only nuclear armed Islamic state. There is also a possibility that Saudi Arabia is lobbying for Pakistan-Israel relations - if there is a war against Iran, the Saudis who already have Israeli 'support' thanks to the American lobby, would also want Pakistan to fall in line.

It is unfortunate because what Pakistan needs is support in technology, agriculture and infrastructure but it may not be feasible with Israeli support. Israel works best with countries that have existing systems and manpower in place (think engineers, an efficient bureaucracy and government commitment). They are not ones who will hand over a pile of cash a la the Saudis or export all services and material a la China.

Pakistan is suffering the effects of being a non-aligned nation during the Yemen talks. A seething UAE seems to have felicitated Modi just to make a point. It needs to be seen how long Pakistan can afford to be non-aligned. Unfortunately, we seem to be approaching an Arab vs Arab war and all stakeholders are clamouring to define Pakistan's role in that war.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Israel has a layered friendship system. Their evaluation of 'friends' is at 2 levels. One - civilisational support and two - tactical support. USA, India and China are the 3 nations that they consider 'civilisational supporters' - these countries have never in their history, marginalised or attacked Jews. All 3 nations have welcomed Jewish refugees, India and China doing so since Babylonian rule.

When the Nazi government took away passports of Jewish elites, the American ambassador shipped them out of Germany with American visas sans passports. As all of us know, these elites eventually became influential political lobbies and have garnered large scale Republican & Christian support for Israel in the US.

David Ben Gurion referred to India and China as great civilisations who will become great powers in the future. He made Albert Einstein write to Nehru to recognise the new state of Israel which India refused to do so for a long time. Israel has invested in Indian relations for decades, not just in technology and defence but also agriculture and tourism - India is the favourite getaway for Israeli soldiers after their mandatory military service. It has the reputation of a place of healing for veterans suffering from PTSD (Mcleodgunj )

Surprisingly, China and Israel never developed as close allies and one can put it down to a difference in temperament. China has a 'lone wolf' mindset whereas India has never shirked to seek support in areas that it was lacking. Case in point - India's space program and also the IITs. Also, India with its 200 million integrated Muslim population and good relations with Arab countries could be an effective lobbying power with the Arabs.

Pakistan, at best would come in as a 'tactical support friend' - there is great potential in that considering that Pakistan is the only nuclear armed Islamic state. There is also a possibility that Saudi Arabia is lobbying for Pakistan-Israel relations - if there is a war against Iran, the Saudis who already have Israeli 'support' thanks to the American lobby, would also want Pakistan to fall in line.

It is unfortunate because what Pakistan needs is support in technology, agriculture and infrastructure but it may not be feasible with Israeli support. Israel works best with countries that have existing systems and manpower in place (think engineers, an efficient bureaucracy and government commitment). They are not ones who will hand over a pile of cash a la the Saudis or export all services and material a la China.

Pakistan is suffering the effects of being a non-aligned nation during the Yemen talks. A seething UAE seems to have felicitated Modi just to make a point. It needs to be seen how long Pakistan can afford to be non-aligned. Unfortunately, we seem to be approaching an Arab vs Arab war and all stakeholders are clamouring to define Pakistan's role in that war.

Very insightful post. Basically underlines that a relationship with Israel would be good tactically for Israel, but would probably be counterproductive from a Pakistani point of view.

Would like to hear an update on this from one of our most vocal Indian members on the subject of Pakistan/Arab debates [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]

 

[Shah]

Yes, definitely Pakistan should establish relationship with Israel.

The following Muslim countries have embassies in Tel Aviv: Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Egypt, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Turkey & Uzbekistan.

Israel has embassies in Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Egypt, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Turkey & Uzbekistan.

Saudi Arabia and U.A.E. have very friendly relations with Israel.

So why not Pakistan?