Do you buy into the theory that lack of IPL experience is responsible for Pakistan's LOI struggles?

[TestCricketFanatic]

I have heard this from many people, that IPL has changed Indian cricket, and Pakistan have been left behind. Do you think this theory has any credibility?

 

[Savak]

It is one of the reasons. Not the only reason.

 

[santos11]

Exactly as the Indian bowlers and batsmen are so used to playing under pressure and large crowds against some of Best International Cricketers .

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

Absolutely not. Peoplekeep focusing on power hitting, but what most Pakistani batsmen lack is proper strike rotation. Playing in the IPL won't magically teach you how to find gaps and rotate the strike. It is a basic part of batting that this lineup lacks.

 

[Savak]

Absolutely not. Peoplekeep focusing on power hitting, but what most Pakistani batsmen lack is proper strike rotation. Playing in the IPL won't magically teach you how to find gaps and rotate the strike. It is a basic part of batting that this lineup lacks.

Its many things, IPL, Indian grass roots coaching, indian wickets are brilliant for batting while Pakistani domestic wickets have gone to the dogs in the last 10 years especially since the absence of international cricket in Pakistan.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

indian wickets are brilliant for batting while Pakistani domestic wickets have gone to the dogs

This is not true anymore. Lots of Indian pitches at Ranji level, especially in North India are greentops.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I think we were struggling long before IPL.

And our players have PSL/other leagues.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Absolutely not. Peoplekeep focusing on power hitting, but what most Pakistani batsmen lack is proper strike rotation. Playing in the IPL won't magically teach you how to find gaps and rotate the strike. It is a basic part of batting that this lineup lacks.

When will you guys learn? It's not singles and twos that win limited overs cricket. It's sixes and fours. Kohli and Rohit can take singles so frequently because they are freakshows. When normal people try it you get Rahane or Asad Shafiq or Shehzad. Intent is needed and even after the worst of defeats you guys want ones and twos. They aren't enough. You need boundaries.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

When will you guys learn? It's not singles and twos that win limited overs cricket. It's sixes and fours. Kohli and Rohit can take singles so frequently because they are freakshows. When normal people try it you get Rahane or Asad Shafiq or Shehzad. Intent is needed and even after the worst of defeats you guys want ones and twos. They aren't enough. You need boundaries.

Of course you do. boundaries are essential. No one denied it. But fac is, yesterday, Pakistan's loss was NOT because of lack of boundaries. It was total lack of strike rotation that put too much pressure on middle order to compensate for run rate.

In run chases, if you aren't getting fours (which can happen), you HAVE to get 4 singles an over AT LEAST. This is what batsmen like Kohli and Dhoni are phenomenal at. If you saw the India innings yesterday, even when Kohli was struggling to time the ball early on, his strike rate never dropped to 60s like Shehzad and Hafeez. #INTENT with no ability will get you nowhere and you will get stuck with a slogger like Afridi. Strike rotation is MUST in ODIs. You are confusing ODIs with T20s. In a 50 over innings, singles are extremely important/

 

[captain crook]

Dhoni, Yuvraj were manhandling bowlers well before IPL started. Sachin used to play power game long before it was cool. Indians have developed a culture and had to struggle for it. They were ridiculed, humiliated. But they never gave up.

They had good role models and good coaches to look up to. Eventually players like Sehwag, Yuvraj started coming through. It was not a one day process. Sachin had to contend with a sh*t team for 12 years without losign resolve to eventually find a good team to play in. It's a long and strenuous process. Similar thing is happening with their bowling.

All in all, IPL has been the result of the hard work, but it's not the process.

 

[Savak]

Its very simple, replace the dot balls in the over with singles coupled with boundaries and sixes that is the difference of 4-5 runs every over.

 

[Ultimate]

I don't think so. Our batsmen are timid, lack the intent of hitting big, are scared of losing their wicket which may cost them their place in the squad, lol. Rotation of strike is not the problem, even if our batsmen are weak at it, it won't matter much as long as they can make up for it by power hitting. The main reason of our downfall in limited overs cricket is lack of intent of power hitting, that's it.

 

[jusarrived]

When will you guys learn? It's not singles and twos that win limited overs cricket. It's sixes and fours. Kohli and Rohit can take singles so frequently because they are freakshows. When normal people try it you get Rahane or Asad Shafiq or Shehzad. Intent is needed and even after the worst of defeats you guys want ones and twos. They aren't enough. You need boundaries.

you couldn't be more wrong . Hitting boundaries these days isnt such a big issue , infact you cannot have a batsmen whos good at rotating strike or who can hit the big shots . You need batsmen who can do both depending on the situation . Any batsmen who can pick singles with easy should be able to develop the big shots , but a batsmen who can only hit the ball hard will not find it easy to rotate the strike .

Virat is a perfect example of who can do both and Rohit is the exact opposite . Sharma has the same issues as some of the Pak batsmen , can only play in one mode either tuk-tuk or bang-bang thats why he struggles pacing his innings , unlike Shezad or Azhar though luckily for him other Indian batsmen dont have that problem and he can hide his shortcomings .

 

[smarmazhar]

Yes partly true coz skill also mattets! Most of the Indian big hitters right now like Jadeja, Pandya etc claim to fame was IPL. I think Shoaib Malik has a bigger potential to play a vital role in the team.He is the senior most of the lot and we need to create players with the tough mentality and 'never say die' attitude of the yesteryear. When Wasim was in the team in late 90s,there was never a game lost until the final bowl is bowled.So exciting to watch. Unfortunately that attitude is no more and we more often than not, crumble under pressure.Not sure whom to blame, its just that the mindset in our players need to change.Play with more aggression.Maybe Akmal,Shezad,Wahab have them but 99 out of 100times that aggression hits their head on a different level and they lose the plot. Ive seen Anwar Ali with that fiery attitude

 

[Napa]

I don't think so. Our batsmen are timid, lack the intent of hitting big, are scared of losing their wicket which may cost them their place in the squad, lol.

I think the greatest impact of the IPL has been that it has produced many Indian "professional" players. These are the characteristics of "professional" players with large salary contracts which A) allow them to focus on the game and not worry about other things B) motivate them to make a large investment in remaining fit and to spend time developing their skills C) give them confidence when they play, knowing that the world recognizes their abilities.

"Professionals" will beat "non-Professionals" 95% of the time, and that is what you are now seeing with India and Pakistan.

 

[Mp812]

IPL has made the Indian players experienced in pressure situations.

They get a chance to try their skill under different pressure situations, time and again, against the best players in world. They watch players from other countries do the same and get tips from current and ex international players on mental toughness.This makes them believe in their ability and also identify their weakness and work on it. It makes them professionals who can assess the match situation, do risk analysis of their options and try to select the right strategy in heat of the moment on the ground. They do this risk assessment again and again and come out as victors gaining confidence as they get into "Been there , done it" mentality. If they fail, the get a chance to learn where they went wrong and ensure they do not repeat the mistake.

The fitness coaches during IPL give them diet and exercise plan to stay fit and fitness means runs saved , more singles taken and in close games even 1 run or crucial brilliant catch taken can change game on its head. For some it is tamasha league, but this tamasha experience has got them a few trophies in the recent past.

 

[OmaIR1]

Yes and no.

If we just look at out batting I would say that our disgraceful batting approach has been an issue well before the introduction of the IPL so it's not a direct product of the lack of IPL exposure. However, having IPL exposure would definitely allow Pakistani players develop the run a ball mentality.

Pakistanis who knock IPL for being a "tamsha league" do it purely out of jealousy and hate of Indian cricket. In the long run, participation in such a league would have only benefited Pakistan.

 

[Hasan123]

IPL has helped Indian cricket .

 

[saqibjamil]

No.

We look at England - an ODI team who was on the path similar to Pakistan is right now: an ODI team struggling to make a mark and got knocked out of 2015 WC in the group stages due to this. After that loss, they revamped their team and got in fresh blood in Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler, Mark Wood, Sam Billings, David Willey etc. all players which are supremely impactful and we can see where the English team is today. They also repurposed players like Joe Root who became a world class batsman. Their 2015 WC squad included really awesome players like James Anderson, Stuart Broad, Ian Bell etc. but they weren't impactful in the ODIs and hence were left out after 2015.
These players didn't have any IPL experience - their domestic structure is strong hence they were able to find players suited for limited overs cricket. Pakistan has started with PSL and would have to strengthen it in order to find more impactful players.
Furthermore, England got rid off their senior players like Ian Bell, James Anderson and Broad - no doubt they are big names in test cricket but they were not suited for ODIs. Pakistan's issue is keeping such senior players for their names only similar to what England did - players like Azhar, Ahmed Shahzad, Hafeez do NOT deserve a spot in limited overs squad.

 

[Sadevdesai]

So now the Indians are expected to invite our players in the IPL, at the expense of their own players, so that our players can perform well against them in the ICC events ???? Hmmmm ....... ??????

 

[roshanrocks]

I think the greatest impact of the IPL has been that it has produced many Indian "professional" players. These are the characteristics of "professional" players with large salary contracts which A) allow them to focus on the game and not worry about other things B) motivate them to make a large investment in remaining fit and to spend time developing their skills C) give them confidence when they play, knowing that the world recognizes their abilities.

"Professionals" will beat "non-Professionals" 95% of the time, and that is what you are now seeing with India and Pakistan.

This is the right answer. IPL has made Indian cricketers rich, and they can concentrate on cricket and improving cricketing skills.

Playing with and against world class players in multiple games in a short time is a great learning experience. You learn from the best in the game. Also when you face the same guys in the international arena the fear factor is reduced.

Many IPL games result in pressure cooker situations and players experience it first hand.

Many Indian cricketers get noticed and so selectors identify a larger pool of players to choose from when the regulars need a break.

Also...with more players performing, more players appear in the limelight and the regulars need to be on their toes as there is always someone ready to take their place and perform.

Krunal Pandya is close on the heels of Jadeja... Rishabh Pant is another keeper bat in waiting.. I didn't watch much IPL so I can't name more....sorry..

Yes. IPL has made some difference.

But there is more. India has slowly found great players to fill up each batting slot and now have found bowlers too.. it took a lot of time since the Tendulkar one man show days.. players now believe they can chase any target and maybe defend targets as well.

Also bcci can afford several support staff to research tactics and opposition as well.

There are a lot of factors and IPL can also claim to have something to do with India performance as an ODI unit.

I will wait for a Kohli low phase to see if our batting still holds up though...

 

[Napa]

I will wait for a Kohli low phase to see if our batting still holds up though...

We already had a Kohli low phase in Tests during the Australia series and the batting held up pretty well scoring 600+ in one innings and winning the series 2-1.

 

[fitCricFan]

I think IPL has been the avenue to build skills around power play. For youngsters, it has been an excellent source to build and enhance their abilities around

• Playing in front of large crowds and/or in pressure cooker situations
• Watching and learning from senior/foreign players
• Pacing the innings as needed
• Learning to improvise in all areas (fielding/batting/bowling)

Now doing this repeatedly over a period of 8 weeks not only gets them psychological ready for the international tournaments but also helps build muscle memory for power hitting.

On top of that, it is fiercely competitive and pays well so every player is giving more than 100%. Add to it the visibility it gets from the audience and national selectors, players know that if they perform well, they have a chance to be a part of the national team otherwise would just wait on the sidelines until they get lucky or find a godfather

On the downside, this sort of slam-bang cricket is not necessarily conducive towards building conventional cricketing techniques and definitely shortens the cricketing career span but then this modern-era version of cricket is as unconventional as it can be. Surely Sir Bradman and his contemporaries are rolling in their graves.

Personally, I feel that the Pak players would surely benefit from participating in IPL, now that happens or not is an altogether different discussion

 

[mystical man]

There was no IPL in the 80 and 90s but Pakistan was churning talent through their domestic structure and as an Indian fan it is hard to fathom the belief that Pakistan is lagging behind due to not being able to participate in this league.

 

[CadPakFan]

I agree I feel Pakistani's not participating in the IPL is not responsible for our LOI Struggles. Especially since we have the PSL now which isnt in the same league as the IPL but still it has high pressure games and big crowds. Yet our LOI teams still struggle.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Whole lot of South Africans play too. But they still continue choking in big tournaments. It definitely does one thing. It identifies players who don't need to come through ranks. For instance Ashwin never had boat load of wickets in the domestic before playing for India. Now Pandya is another guy who sprung from nowhere. Bumrah is another guy i never heard of until IPL. It helps more people taking up cricket as a "profession" which leads to professionalism.

 

[Itachi]

How IPL has helped Indian cricket?

A simple example.

Last 10 overs. 90+ runs to chase.

Previously team India would have been all out trying to hit boundaries.

Now, since it is a common scenario in IPL, team India knows how to approach it.

 

[HinderTheJinder]

How IPL has helped Indian cricket?

A simple example.

Last 10 overs. 90+ runs to chase.

Previously team India would have been all out trying to hit boundaries.

Now, since it is a common scenario in IPL, team India knows how to approach it.

Nowadays any team can chase 90 in last ten overs so its not a biggie

 

[HinderTheJinder]

Yes it is one of the reasons but I don't know how I feel about a tournament which openly discriminates against players from a certain country.I remember in 2010 auction they did not select Pakistani players who were T20 champions but selected noobs and oldies like Kemp,Martyn and god knows how many out of date players

 

[Itachi]

Nowadays any team can chase 90 in last ten overs so its not a biggie

.... And why other top team can but Pakistan bottles up?

PSL came very late to party. Other players moved ahead with their t20 league.

 

[khurram39]

If Pakistan's domestic culture is upgraded then this point has no base now we can accept this to some extent. Mostly lack of cricket as other nations did is the major issue.

 

[GrandMaster]

Yes it is one of the reasons but I don't know how I feel about a tournament which openly discriminates against players from a certain country.I remember in 2010 auction they did not select Pakistani players who were T20 champions but selected noobs and oldies like Kemp,Martyn and god knows how many out of date players

Blame Ijaz Butt for that, not BCCI.

 

[imranyounus]

TBH the reason has been the change in selection policies we always had the same system so selector always prefered to select players very early.

now you hardly see the same particularly for fast bowlers.

even as of today we dont have a 19 or 20 year replacement for wahab

 

[Indiafan]

When will you guys learn? It's not singles and twos that win limited overs cricket. It's sixes and fours. Kohli and Rohit can take singles so frequently because they are freakshows. When normal people try it you get Rahane or Asad Shafiq or Shehzad. Intent is needed and even after the worst of defeats you guys want ones and twos. They aren't enough. You need boundaries.

LMAO same blabbering without any backing

The best batsmen today, Smith, Kohli, Root, Williamson, devillers all are expert at strike rotation and keeping score board ticking. What more, they actually talk about the importance of rotating strike and running hard thereby proving your armchair "analysis" wrong. Even the best finishers (Dhoni, etc) had the same, 1, 2 boundaries followed by zero dot balls, making an 8 run over into 12 to 14 runs. That is why they are consistent and successful more than any others

Pure six hitters like Afridi/Gayle have abysmal averages because of same reason and are hit or miss and can never reach the category of those mentioned above

So ya, you couldn't be more wrong

 

[Indiafan]

LMAO same blabbering without any backing

The best batsmen today, Smith, Kohli, Root, Williamson, devillers all are expert at strike rotation and keeping score board ticking. What more, they actually talk about the importance of rotating strike and running hard thereby proving your armchair "analysis" wrong. Even the best finishers (Dhoni, etc) had the same, 1, 2 boundaries followed by zero dot balls, making an 8 run over into 12 to 14 runs. That is why they are consistent and successful more than any others

Pure six hitters like Afridi/Gayle have abysmal averages because of same reason and are hit or miss and can never reach the category of those mentioned above

So ya, you couldn't be more wrong

Add Warner too

 

[QazzarFan]

You can blame power hitting but Pakistan team lacked in running between the wickets. It looked terrible, worse than club level teams. Then catching. The whole team seems to be seriously lacking in physical fitness.

 

[jusarrived]

IPL has played its part , but if you watch some of the age group players these days they have most things right about them already .

 

[Pete Rose]

The Pakistani strategy of playing steady and having a dash at the end existed long before IPL came along. It's what we know and it's what we will do. IPL is a factor but not the major one. Our home pitches and when we play domestic cricket are bigger factors

 

[Savak]

This is what the IPL has contributed to India's LO and T-20 teams. Just watch Dhoni Humilate Malinga who bowled a full blooded 146 km/hr yorker. Dhoni will do this to a peak Wasim and Waqar as well.

 

[sboy96567]

When will you guys learn? It's not singles and twos that win limited overs cricket. It's sixes and fours. Kohli and Rohit can take singles so frequently because they are freakshows. When normal people try it you get Rahane or Asad Shafiq or Shehzad. Intent is needed and even after the worst of defeats you guys want ones and twos. They aren't enough. You need boundaries.

A simple comparison. Dhawan and Azhar Ali both faced 65 diliveries Dhawan scored 68 with 6 fours and 1 six while Azhar scored 51 runs with 6 fours. There is a difference of 17 runs if we remove that 1 six still Azhar is 11 runs behind and that is the main difference. Azhar faced 39 dot balls. If he had rotated the strike on only 10 diliveries out of those 39 he would have been close to dhawan and his job would have been done. The difference which i have noticed on many occasions is that when other teams hit a boundary they score 3 4 singles as well and end up scoring 8 runs in that over while azhar played 3 overs in which he scored a boundary and the remaining 5 diliveries where dots. So strike rotation is the main reason. Remember MISBAH?

 

[MRSN]

Pakistani fans and PCB never embraced modern day cricket to be honest. We had people die hard fans of Misbah defending him day and night with his approach in ODIs not just fans he had full support of people in the PCB. We made him into a legend and now we don't our youngsters to follow his approach?

Misbah's tenure as captain has put a massive gap between Pakistan and other teams. It will take some years to get close to other teams.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Funny thread. The main reason for Pakistan's decline is the lack of international cricket at home not some mickey mouse league hosted in another country. Playing in front of your home crowd gives you confidence and encourage kids to take up cricket.

 

[lucky_fish]

NO.

Cricket is bigger than the IPL fact.

Whilst you can't deny the impact and influence it's had on modern cricket, in my view it's EDUCATION that has had a huge effect on Pak cricket.

An unwillingness to learn - about dieting, about training, about strategy, about team cohesion....the list goes on.

It's easy to lay try blame solely on the IPL or the fact the there is no int cricket in Pak. If any player in Pak wanted to learn there's very little stopping them.

 

[explayer]

It was fielding which was the reason of defeat + poor selection of team. had those two easy catches taken, kohli and yuvrag were gone before carnage started. i mean they were just simple catches!
then you select wahab over junaid? Then you're forced to play an opner(hafeez) in middle order instead of a proper middle order batsman like haris sohail? hopefully this defeat is an end for shazad hafeez and wahab but i think shazad and hafeez will score against srilanka after losing to SA and reatain their places for next series.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Exactly as the Indian bowlers and batsmen are so used to playing under pressure and large crowds against some of Best International Cricketers .

this + power hitting are the only two reasons that you can make on lack of IPL exposure...

But what pak does is basic school boy errors..

how to catch, how to throw, whose call for the catch, running on a misfield, poor running between the wickets, 2 are taken as 1 and 3 are reduced to 2...

rest like dot balls, finding gaps, not knowing how to build an innings, how to use the new ball, how to bowl yorkers, shot selection, which bowler to target and not to target, how to use the dimensions of the ground effectively for boundary hitting, are all skills learned with procedural training, practice and developed with experience...

Next fitness issues, if not a natural athlete then have to workhard to keep fit.. if you cant then tell your board they can find something else for you than playing for the nation..