Do you fear the future for your children?

[KingKhanWC]

If you have children , grandchildren or nephews or nieces, do you wonder & worry what the future may hold for them ?

Or you don’t as it’s always hard times as seen through history ?

random murders , rise in anti social violent behaviour in the streets , lack of jobs , huge house prices compared to earnings , increase of natural disasters, wars , public nudity , gender confusion, more diseases , pandemics ….

Growing up in the uk in the 90s was amazing . The streets were safe , cheap food, great schools , sports clubs , cheap travel . I feel sorry for the kids now & what they will face .

 

[Bewal Express]

A case of ke sera sera

 

[Bhaijaan]

The thing about Europe is because of their historical acts you neither feel sorry for Europe nor for the mass immigrants they have exported from certain communities. This is karma for the blasphemous acts of the past.

 

[shortbread]

If you have children , grandchildren or nephews or nieces, do you wonder & worry what the future may hold for them ?

Or you don’t as it’s always hard times as seen through history ?

random murders , rise in anti social violent behaviour in the streets , lack of jobs , huge house prices compared to earnings , increase of natural disasters, wars , public nudity , gender confusion, more diseases , pandemics ….

Growing up in the uk in the 90s was amazing . The streets were safe , cheap food, great schools , sports clubs , cheap travel . I feel sorry for the kids now & what they will face .

Having become a father last year, I empathize with this fear. While it's undeniable that the UK has faced decline, could our anxiety also stem from greater awareness and access to information? Problems like crime and unrest have always existed; it's often our youthful resilience that allows us to overlook them. As we age, our concerns amplify. However, I do agree that the past decade has posed significant challenges for the UK, both economically and socially, and these issues have become increasingly apparent.

 

[nish_mate]

If you have children , grandchildren or nephews or nieces, do you wonder & worry what the future may hold for them ?

Or you don’t as it’s always hard times as seen through history ?

random murders , rise in anti social violent behaviour in the streets , lack of jobs , huge house prices compared to earnings , increase of natural disasters, wars , public nudity , gender confusion, more diseases , pandemics ….

Growing up in the uk in the 90s was amazing . The streets were safe , cheap food, great schools , sports clubs , cheap travel . I feel sorry for the kids now & what they will face .

Worried yes, UKs screwed up and in terminal decline. No sunny uplands, higher and higher taxation with crumbling public services, increased crime.

A politically fragmented nation with baked in unproductivity and a current govt which will continue the trend of last 20+ years of spending beyond means.

Future generations will inherit debt, potholes, non existing NHS, loads of flats but not ebough houses, no state pension, no private pension, no high paying jobs, no incentive to start own business, high stress etc etc etc

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yoi

Having become a father last year, I empathize with this fear. While it's undeniable that the UK has faced decline, could our anxiety also stem from greater awareness and access to information? Problems like crime and unrest have always existed; it's often our youthful resilience that allows us to overlook them. As we age, our concerns amplify. However, I do agree that the past decade has posed significant challenges for the UK, both economically and socially, and these issues have become increasingly apparent.

you may be correct & i agree to an extent mass information esp misinformation can lead to negative conclusions but we also have ground realities . History has shown many tough times but in the current modern age , it’s a decline of everything inc morals .
I guess its a case of being flexible in everything in order to live in the best environment & peaceful way

 

[KingKhanWC]

Worried yes, UKs screwed up and in terminal decline. No sunny uplands, higher and higher taxation with crumbling public services, increased crime.

A politically fragmented nation with baked in unproductivity and a current govt which will continue the trend of last 20+ years of spending beyond means.

Future generations will inherit debt, potholes, non existing NHS, loads of flats but not ebough houses, no state pension, no private pension, no high paying jobs, no incentive to start own business, high stress etc etc etc

Totally agree , the UK as a financial secure nation is on the way out . It has no natural resources, became wealthy due to colonisation.

 

[sweep_shot]

Future is not looking good for future generations. World is becoming more and more unstable and unpredictable.

But, I put my trust in God. La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah. I trust His Plan.

 

[nish_mate]

Totally agree , the UK as a financial secure nation is on the way out . It has no natural resources, became wealthy due to colonisation.

UK does have niche industries and a enterpenurial streak, which unfortunately has had its wings clipped with the self goal of Brexit. UK is going to be slowest growing major economy for some time to continue.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

If you have children , grandchildren or nephews or nieces, do you wonder & worry what the future may hold for them ?

Or you don’t as it’s always hard times as seen through history ?

random murders , rise in anti social violent behaviour in the streets , lack of jobs , huge house prices compared to earnings , increase of natural disasters, wars , public nudity , gender confusion, more diseases , pandemics ….

Growing up in the uk in the 90s was amazing . The streets were safe , cheap food, great schools , sports clubs , cheap travel . I feel sorry for the kids now & what they will face .

Nopes! The next generation I see around me is far better and smarter than us.
Holding and glorifying past memories is a natural trait of humans, but world is moving on while we will individually decay and fade away.

 

[KingKhanWC]

UK does have niche industries and a enterpenurial streak, which unfortunately has had its wings clipped with the self goal of Brexit. UK is going to be slowest growing major economy for some time to continue.

There are poor countries but the uk has other major social issue such as broken families , drugs , alcohol abuse never seen on such a huge level . When the money runs out , it will be one of the most dangerous places , cities & towns mainly . The countryside where the rich live will be ok

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nopes! The next generation I see around me is far better and smarter than us.
Holding and glorifying past memories is a natural trait of humans, but world is moving on while we will individually decay and fade away.

Will they have a more secure , happy & prosperous life ? Worldwide or where you live ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I do fear that the UK is on the way down, and while financially it won't impact me at this point, not sure how much I want to be living in a country where the natives are looking for scapegoats. We've seen already that the mood can be turned ugly with some well aimed social/national media propaganda.

Problem is the alternatives don't look so attractive to me either. I have a British outlook, would not feel at home in a lot of other places. I do have kids and might be the right time to start thinking about their future as well.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Will they have a more secure , happy & prosperous life ? Worldwide or where you live ?

Absolutely better everywhere on an average! The world is objectively improving, there can be periods of stagnation in different pockets but people are having better quality life than before and more secure.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There are poor countries but the uk has other major social issue such as broken families , drugs , alcohol abuse never seen on such a huge level . When the money runs out , it will be one of the most dangerous places , cities & towns mainly . The countryside where the rich live will be ok

I do actually live outside the city myself in a very nice area so unlikely to ever see the sort of strife we are seeing in Leeds or Southport, but at the same time, we are all part of the same country and it affects the climate wherever you live.

 

[Red-Indian]

Nopes! The next generation I see around me is far better and smarter than us.
Holding and glorifying past memories is a natural trait of humans, but world is moving on while we will individually decay and fade away.

Exactly only weirdos would not be optimistic about the future

- World hunger and poverty are the lowest they've been in history. China and India have pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty


- Deaths from crime are the lowest they've been in history
- While deaths from armed conflict have an occasional spike, it's greatly reduced and deaths from terrorism have also shrunk
- There's far more opportunities for youth - more international mobility, new professions that can allow for a living, more economic mobility
- Yes there are islands of reverse trends but the long term trend religion is slowly releasing it's illogical grip on humanity


What a great world for children to come into! Never been better.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Things are going to go worse only, everywhere in the world. Your demography is your destiny.

 

[oatmeal]

If wider war doesnt break out, then the future will be better. Climate change can be tackled but all out war can destroy human civilization.

The developed world will see a slow down unless they accept immigration which causes political problems. The developing world will see a lot of growth and improvement but the quality of life will still be far poorer than developed world. There are just too many people in developing world to have a good Quality of life

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

If wider war doesnt break out, then the future will be better. Climate change can be tackled but all out war can destroy human civilization.

The developed world will see a slow down unless they accept immigration which causes political problems. The developing world will see a lot of growth and improvement but the quality of life will still be far poorer than developed world. There are just too many people in developing world to have a good Quality of life

Threat of world wide wiping of civilization due to war is overblown thanks to propaganda and Hollywood movies. I do appreciate the anti-war motive and it works to some extent but its not rooted in reality.

 

[nish_mate]

There are poor countries but the uk has other major social issue such as broken families , drugs , alcohol abuse never seen on such a huge level . When the money runs out , it will be one of the most dangerous places , cities & towns mainly . The countryside where the rich live will be ok

I was comparing to OECD countries, of them can only think of Spain, Portugal, Greece, Turkey and maybe Italy to be poorer than the UK.

What is happening is that there is a sharp divide between haves and have nots, with the middle buffer eroding away. The middle class are quickly becoming the have nots. The poor generally see living off the state as better than working, and with MC slowly becoming net tax recipents, not enough tax payers to keep the system going.

UK cant afford the social security safety blanket anymore and that will cause more angst. The money has run out, everything is means tested. Got a house paid off- well cant have social care. Got some money salted away to give to future generations, well after £325k taxman will come knocking. Cant talk about benefits as not too versed in that area, but for everything else its going to be means tested.

 

[oatmeal]

Threat of world wide wiping of civilization due to war is overblown thanks to propaganda and Hollywood movies. I do appreciate the anti-war motive and it works to some extent but its not rooted in reality.

It's not a binary between no war at all and all out world war with nuclear weapons. The bigger risk is a lot of localized conflicts causing crises , migration and economic damage. this is already happening to a certain extent but it could get wider with way more countries involved.

War has its own momentum, dont think the safety valves will work because they have worked fairly well in the last 50 years.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Exactly only weirdos would not be optimistic about the future

- World hunger and poverty are the lowest they've been in history. China and India have pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty


- Deaths from crime are the lowest they've been in history
- While deaths from armed conflict have an occasional spike, it's greatly reduced and deaths from terrorism have also shrunk
- There's far more opportunities for youth - more international mobility, new professions that can allow for a living, more economic mobility
- Yes there are islands of reverse trends but the long term trend religion is slowly releasing it's illogical grip on humanity


What a great world for children to come into! Never been better.

By the same token, the last decade in india has been the most peaceful for hindu muslims and hardly any riots.

These cherry picked numbers hide that with social media, nothing is localized anymore. There is misinformation, fake news, hate speech, echo chambers, online bullying, targetting of your race/religion/ethnicity. It all affects your perception of peace.

Your metrics cleverly overlook this.

But good for you.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

It's not a binary between no war at all and all out world war with nuclear weapons. The bigger risk is a lot of localized conflicts causing crises , migration and economic damage. this is already happening to a certain extent but it could get wider with way more countries involved.

War has its own momentum, dont think the safety valves will work because they have worked fairly well in the last 50 years.

Those crisis and conflicts have been happening for centuries. Entire cities used to be burnt and raze to the ground.
In this day and age atleast we are well aware of these crisis. Just a little fact, This current Gaza conflict and crisis won't even register among the worst 50 crisis in the history, nor in terms on economics or human toll. Sudan maybe.

Zoom out and look at the broader picture, the world is safer. There might be a feeling of stagnation but the movement is in positive direction and it has been happening through centuries despite the blips of Two world wars.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I was comparing to OECD countries, of them can only think of Spain, Portugal, Greece, Turkey and maybe Italy to be poorer than the UK.

What is happening is that there is a sharp divide between haves and have nots, with the middle buffer eroding away. The middle class are quickly becoming the have nots. The poor generally see living off the state as better than working, and with MC slowly becoming net tax recipents, not enough tax payers to keep the system going.

UK cant afford the social security safety blanket anymore and that will cause more angst. The money has run out, everything is means tested. Got a house paid off- well cant have social care. Got some money salted away to give to future generations, well after £325k taxman will come knocking. Cant talk about benefits as not too versed in that area, but for everything else its going to be means tested.

Can't really argue with any of this. Irony is that the UK is heavily dependent on immigration to keep the costs of social care down, but that causes more resentment even though what used to be called the working class don't actually want to do that type of work any more.

 

[RexRex]

Can't really argue with any of this. Irony is that the UK is heavily dependent on immigration to keep the costs of social care down, but that causes more resentment even though what used to be called the working class don't actually want to do that type of work any more.

Does the white working class think that type of work is beneath them ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Does the white working class think that type of work is beneath them ?

Maybe they just think it's too much hard work. Why else were farmers panicking when we left the EU and all the fruit and vegetable pickers disappeared?

 

[oatmeal]

Those crisis and conflicts have been happening for centuries. Entire cities used to be burnt and raze to the ground.
In this day and age atleast we are well aware of these crisis. Just a little fact, This current Gaza conflict and crisis won't even register among the worst 50 crisis in the history, nor in terms on economics or human toll. Sudan maybe.

Zoom out and look at the broader picture, the world is safer. There might be a feeling of stagnation but the movement is in positive direction and it has been happening through centuries despite the blips of Two world wars.

Just because the world is safer than it was 50 years ago, doesnt mean it will continue to be that way.

Weapons (even non nuclear) are way more dangerous than before. the supply chains are connected, maritime routes are difficult to protect and very key economically. The cost of starting a conflict is lower than ever and the consequences can be catastrophic.

War looks totally avoidable till it isnt, it has its own momentum and once the ball starts rolling its very hard to stop. You are welcome to ignore that and we will have to agree to disagree here but this is a massive risk .

 

[nish_mate]

Can't really argue with any of this. Irony is that the UK is heavily dependent on immigration to keep the costs of social care down, but that causes more resentment even though what used to be called the working class don't actually want to do that type of work any more.

True and at the same time we have enough out of work Brits (of all colours and ethnicities) who dont want to go back into work for plethora of reasons.

Either Brits (again of all colours and ethnicities etc) need to accept they will need to look after the elderly in their latter years, are happy to work at £12-15ph (or lower) to collect bins, sweep the streets, work in the slaughterhouses, drive the lorries and the buses, be the parking ticket attendant, stewards, waiters etc OR accept there will always need to be immigrants who do the work they dont want to do and will expect a ILR and Nationality in return for this and not just be expecting to be kicked out at end of fixed term visa.

Alternatively Govt. can spend 100 billions (multiple) in upskilling the country, so that greater than 60% of the country's working population are net tax payers. The problem with that is there isnt any money for it and even if money was there, is there enough appetite within the unemployed Brits to have a go and make something of themselves, learning new skills for the 21st century.

UK needs either needs to become an industrial powerhouse again competing at scale and on price (not possible when South East Asia and China can produce the same at lower costs) or become a genuine world class service provider across a variety of niche sectors that will provide enough to sustain the burgeoning welfare budget.

 

[nish_mate]

Does the white working class think that type of work is beneath them ?

What is easier- collect benefits, do a bit of cash in hand jobs on the side or working your back off all day and then paying taxes off the heard earnt income.

There is a genuine shortage of tradesmen in this country- not enough bricklayers, builders, carpenters, fitters, joiners, plubmers etc. Why do you think majority of building sites in the UK resemble United Nations sans Britain? I genuinely ask where are the white Brits?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Just because the world is safer than it was 50 years ago, doesnt mean it will continue to be that way.

Weapons (even non nuclear) are way more dangerous than before. the supply chains are connected, maritime routes are difficult to protect and very key economically. The cost of starting a conflict is lower than ever and the consequences can be catastrophic.

War looks totally unavoidable till it isnt, it has its own momentum and once the ball starts rolling its very hard to stop. You are welcome to ignore that and we will have to agree to disagree here but this is a massive risk .

Anything can happen in the future, but none of the actual trends and stats indicate that. We have to look beyond the hyperbolic loudspeaker of social media doomsday predictors.

Weapons are better and that's a good thing. Civilian casualties are lower because weapons are more precise.
Again, Your thoughts about war are not based on just conjecture and emotions. We can as well be struck by a large comet then, if we are going by anything can happen. Probability of something happening is never zero.

Every generation goes through this mid level crisis statement "Ah the good old days are gone, The world is doomed"
It's basically the generation talking about themselves, The next generation will be taking over once we are gone and their perspective will be vastly different ours.

 

[oatmeal]

Anything can happen in the future, but none of the actual trends and stats indicate that. We have to look beyond the hyperbolic loudspeaker of social media doomsday predictors.

Weapons are better and that's a good thing. Civilian casualties are lower because weapons are more precise.
Again, Your thoughts about war are not based on just conjecture and emotions. We can as well be struck by a large comet then, if we are going by anything can happen. Probability of something happening is never zero.

We will have to agree to disagree here. This is not just conjecture . The world is more unsafe today than it was any time after the WW2. Better weapons means you have both smart and dumb bombs, carrying tons of explosives. you have drones that can overwhelm defences.

This doesnt mean it will happen, its just that the chances are non trivial.

Every generation goes through this mid level crisis statement "Ah the good old days are gone, The world is doomed"
It's basically the generation talking about themselves, The next generation will be taking over once we are gone and their perspective will be vastly different ours.

This is totally different. acknowledging a risk of war is not nostalgic reminiscing that you are talking about. Socially , economically, technologically, the world will keep getting better. But there are also existential risks that can undermine all that progress. And sticking your head in the sand ignoring them doesn't mean they will go away. Just because Sars-Cov-1 didnt spread a lot or kill millions, didnt mean that Sars-Cov-2 couldnt develop into a full blown global epidemic.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

We will have to agree to disagree here. This is not just conjecture . The world is more unsafe today than it was any time after the WW2. Better weapons means you have both smart and dumb bombs, carrying tons of explosives. you have drones that can overwhelm defences.

This doesnt mean it will happen, its just that the chances are non trivial.



This is totally different. acknowledging a risk of war is not nostalgic reminiscing that you are talking about. Socially , economically, technologically, the world will keep getting better. But there are also existential risks that can undermine all that progress. And sticking your head in the sand ignoring them doesn't mean they will go away. Just because Sars-Cov-1 didnt spread a lot or kill millions, didnt mean that Sars-Cov-2 couldnt develop into a full blown global epidemic.

I will pick the last one.
My friend did a Master's thesis on this topic about 15 years ago, it is an agreed upon conclusion that No single disease can cause an existential threat to Humanity as such. Hollywood and Sci-fiction will be too boring if stick to facts and laws of nature

2. Nuclear and non-nuclear weapon: The threat and impact of nuclear weapon is blown way out of proportion. Nuclear weapons are not like something u can strike a match and light it. Again, Sci-fi does take a lot of liberties with science else it will be too boring.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Those crisis and conflicts have been happening for centuries. Entire cities used to be burnt and raze to the ground.
In this day and age atleast we are well aware of these crisis. Just a little fact, This current Gaza conflict and crisis won't even register among the worst 50 crisis in the history, nor in terms on economics or human toll. Sudan maybe.

Zoom out and look at the broader picture, the world is safer. There might be a feeling of stagnation but the movement is in positive direction and it has been happening through centuries despite the blips of Two world wars.

How is the world safer today with a lot happening in gaza, yemen, ukraine, stuff happening in African continent, rampant hate crimes all around the world, suppressing of minorities by so called democracies. Would it only get under threat when your own country become gaza?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

How is the world safer today with a lot happening in gaza, yemen, ukraine, stuff happening in African continent, rampant hate crimes all around the world, suppressing of minorities by so called democracies. Would it only get under threat when your own country become gaza?

Humanity is bigger than our personal life time and experiences. So my assessment takes the bigger picture into account.
There is an information overload and too much hyperbole in the echo chambers of social media. But that should not be taken as reality.

 

[sweep_shot]

Humanity is bigger than our personal life time and experiences. So my assessment takes the bigger picture into account.
There is an information overload and too much hyperbole in the echo chambers of social media. But that should not be taken as reality.

World has gotten worse. So many conflicts globally (Gaza, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Ladakh, Azerbaijan-Armenia, Ukraine, Lebanon, Syria etc.).

Not to mention the economic crisis. It is happening at a global scale.

What about natural disasters? These are increasing also.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How is the world safer today with a lot happening in gaza, yemen, ukraine, stuff happening in African continent, rampant hate crimes all around the world, suppressing of minorities by so called democracies. Would it only get under threat when your own country become gaza?

For people like the poster you are replying to, those are just collateral damage, Gaza residents getting wiped out would lead to a more peaceful future with an all Jewish settler population removing the conflict.

 

[oatmeal]

I will pick the last one.
My friend did a Master's thesis on this topic about 15 years ago, it is an agreed upon conclusion that No single disease can cause an existential threat to Humanity as such. Hollywood and Sci-fiction will be too boring if stick to facts and laws of nature

2. Nuclear and non-nuclear weapon: The threat and impact of nuclear weapon is blown way out of proportion. Nuclear weapons are not like something u can strike a match and light it. Again, Sci-fi does take a lot of liberties with science else it will be too boring.

You are only considering extreme binaries . Either everything is hunky dory or total annihilation of human civilisation.

There is a massive spectrum in between these two extremes. Massive price rises due to supply chain disruption, communication outages caused by satellite warfare. Because of highly integrated supply chains, disruption in one place can cause quality of life issues in other countries, manufacturing can be hit if some ingredients cant be sourced due to war there.

Even in weapons, you are considering only nuclear weapons which only a handful of states posess. But everyone has drones. everyone has uncrewed naval vehicles, dumb bombs etc. It doesnt take a lot to start a conflict. And you are assuming eventually cooler heads prevail and its contained. Which can happen, but twice in last 110 years it spiralled into world wars. There is no guarantee that it will always be contained

 

[pakistani pride]

Yes, it does not really look great. Many questions marks and issues which our so called leaders are not willing to tackle.

 

[Champ_Pal]

How is the world safer today with a lot happening in gaza, yemen, ukraine, stuff happening in African continent, rampant hate crimes all around the world, suppressing of minorities by so called democracies. Would it only get under threat when your own country become gaza?

Israel conflict is nothing new. Its a simmering volcano. It erupts once every few years.
Yemen has been a terrible place for decades now.
Ukraine conflict is the only one that has popped up in the last 3 years.
Africa has always been a dump. Nothing can change them. No amount of money you throw in that continent will fix it.

Only certain countries are in constant war type situations. For smart countries, its business as usual. They are developing even with a ton of internal problems holding them back.

 

[Technics 1210]

Easily the worst generation to be born into since World War 1.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Israel conflict is nothing new. Its a simmering volcano. It erupts once every few years.
Yemen has been a terrible place for decades now.
Ukraine conflict is the only one that has popped up in the last 3 years.
Africa has always been a dump. Nothing can change them. No amount of money you throw in that continent will fix it.

Only certain countries are in constant war type situations. For smart countries, its business as usual. They are developing even with a ton of internal problems holding them back.

I hope it doesn't turn out to be true but a big chaos is going to hit middle east soon and conflicts in indo pacific would follow later if US didn't back down from Russian opposition in Ukraine and moving more closer to China.

It's very unfortunate how people think world is safe because their house hasn't catch fire yet.

 

[Champ_Pal]

I hope it doesn't turn out to be true but a big chaos is going to hit middle east soon and conflicts in indo pacific would follow later if US didn't back down from Russian opposition in Ukraine and moving more closer to China.

It's very unfortunate how people think world is safe because their house hasn't catch fire yet.

You are too pessimistic.

Russia is almost bankrupt from this war. Ukraine will hang on for as long as it can with support from NATO. Russia does not have that kind of money. The longer this war goes, Ukraine will be gaining upper hand.

China will never dare attack Taiwan. The simple fact is that China cannot fight. It can only bully with untested weapons and economic clout. The status quo will continue into the foreseeable future.

Africa is Africa and will always be.

Middle East will settle down once Iran is defanged. No Arab nation is interested in war with Israel. Gaza is literally in Egypt and Egypt did nothing for Hamas. Clearly shows the policy of Arab nations. They are not dumb to support Hamas. They have wised up in the last 2 decades.

Some people are hoping for the downfall of West. Basically they are hoping for a miracle. But it will never happen. West has made strides in Artificial Intelligence. Once they achieve AGI and then ASI, it will be them ruling the world forever. Third world countries will be left out. Only countries that employ scientific thoughts and temper will progress. The rest will be stuck in age old useless wars.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

You are too pessimistic.

Russia is almost bankrupt from this war. Ukraine will hang on for as long as it can with support from NATO. Russia does not have that kind of money. The longer this war goes, Ukraine will be gaining upper hand.

China will never dare attack Taiwan. The simple fact is that China cannot fight. It can only bully with untested weapons and economic clout. The status quo will continue into the foreseeable future.

Africa is Africa and will always be.

Middle East will settle down once Iran is defanged. No Arab nation is interested in war with Israel. Gaza is literally in Egypt and Egypt did nothing for Hamas. Clearly shows the policy of Arab nations. They are not dumb to support Hamas. They have wised up in the last 2 decades.

Some people are hoping for the downfall of West. Basically they are hoping for a miracle. But it will never happen. West has made strides in Artificial Intelligence. Once they achieve AGI and then ASI, it will be them ruling the world forever. Third world countries will be left out. Only countries that employ scientific thoughts and temper will progress. The rest will be stuck in age old useless wars.

Yeah don't like to be pessimistic but reality won't change with one's fancy or positive thinking. People at large need to change first. Even here you could see people justifying the violence in Gaza. With such mentality no matter how much countries in west progress they won't get out of the trench they digged for others.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Yeah don't like to be pessimistic but reality won't change with one's fancy or positive thinking. People at large need to change first. Even here you could see people justifying the violence in Gaza. With such mentality no matter how much countries in west progress they won't get out of the trench they digged for others.

Tell me what would Pakistan do if it were in Israel's place?

 

[shortbread]

Mind you, UK survived Liz Truss, not many countries would've done that.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Tell me what would Pakistan do if it were in Israel's place?

Certainly won't poke nose everywhere.

 

[oatmeal]

China will never dare attack Taiwan. The simple fact is that China cannot fight. It can only bully with untested weapons and economic clout. The status quo will continue into the foreseeable future.

China will invade Taiwan, One China is foundational to their civilization. But they also dont want to get drawn out in a war or spill a lot of Chinese blood.

So they will bide their time and strike when the west is weak to have a quick takeover instead of making the mistake that Russia did in Ukraine or USA did in Afghanistan. If they need to wait 5,10, 15 years they will.

 

[nish_mate]

You are too pessimistic.

Russia is almost bankrupt from this war. Ukraine will hang on for as long as it can with support from NATO. Russia does not have that kind of money. The longer this war goes, Ukraine will be gaining upper hand.

China will never dare attack Taiwan. The simple fact is that China cannot fight. It can only bully with untested weapons and economic clout. The status quo will continue into the foreseeable future.

Africa is Africa and will always be.

Middle East will settle down once Iran is defanged. No Arab nation is interested in war with Israel. Gaza is literally in Egypt and Egypt did nothing for Hamas. Clearly shows the policy of Arab nations. They are not dumb to support Hamas. They have wised up in the last 2 decades.

Some people are hoping for the downfall of West. Basically they are hoping for a miracle. But it will never happen. West has made strides in Artificial Intelligence. Once they achieve AGI and then ASI, it will be them ruling the world forever. Third world countries will be left out. Only countries that employ scientific thoughts and temper will progress. The rest will be stuck in age old useless wars.

You do realise that Russia still holds a net trade surplus and has billions parked in India/China/other BRICS and other Global South countries. Not to mention the billions frozen in Treasuries around the world.

The day OECD decides to expropriate those, bye bye to USD as reserve currency and by bye to US economic dominance. The only reason US continues to live without it's mean is becusease of USD reserve currency standard.

Secondly day, the repatriations and expropriations occure Dasvidaniya to world order that OECD preaches. OECD and G7 have created a precent in law, that will used by every nation thats ever been invaded and guess who stands #1 in the invasion list?

NATO countries are bankrupt or nearing bankruptcy and voters back home in NATO countries a) dont want to see austerity imposed on them for Ukranians b) wont ever accept NATO soldiers getting into a hot war with Russia.

Ukranians are releasingprisoners to fight for them, upping and lowering the conscription age simultaneously. Zelensky's constitutional term's run out, he is running on "emergency" powers, i.e. the same West that laments about lack of democracy in Russia, is now supporting a country whose leader doesnt have a democratic mandate.

Having lived in Russia, can tell you with authority the Russian soul is used to living with hardship and not having a lot. They have gone through an economic disaster every 70 odd years for the last 200 years or so. The Russian revolution, WW2, dissolution of USSR, 98 economy meltdown didnt break them down, this Ukranian war will?

The intial shock of sanctions gone.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Certainly won't poke nose everywhere.

So they will let the enemy keep on inflicting cuts on its body and do nothing about it.

 

[Champ_Pal]

China will invade Taiwan, One China is foundational to their civilization. But they also dont want to get drawn out in a war or spill a lot of Chinese blood.

So they will bide their time and strike when the west is weak to have a quick takeover instead of making the mistake that Russia did in Ukraine or USA did in Afghanistan. If they need to wait 5,10, 15 years they will.

That is why Taiwan is not in any imminent danger of Chinese takeover. It can take decades before that happens and even then it will not be easy.

 

[Champ_Pal]

You do realise that Russia still holds a net trade surplus and has billions parked in India/China/other BRICS and other Global South countries. Not to mention the billions frozen in Treasuries around the world.

The day OECD decides to expropriate those, bye bye to USD as reserve currency and by bye to US economic dominance. The only reason US continues to live without it's mean is becusease of USD reserve currency standard.

Secondly day, the repatriations and expropriations occure Dasvidaniya to world order that OECD preaches. OECD and G7 have created a precent in law, that will used by every nation thats ever been invaded and guess who stands #1 in the invasion list?

NATO countries are bankrupt or nearing bankruptcy and voters back home in NATO countries a) dont want to see austerity imposed on them for Ukranians b) wont ever accept NATO soldiers getting into a hot war with Russia.

Ukranians are releasingprisoners to fight for them, upping and lowering the conscription age simultaneously. Zelensky's constitutional term's run out, he is running on "emergency" powers, i.e. the same West that laments about lack of democracy in Russia, is now supporting a country whose leader doesnt have a democratic mandate.

Having lived in Russia, can tell you with authority the Russian soul is used to living with hardship and not having a lot. They have gone through an economic disaster every 70 odd years for the last 200 years or so. The Russian revolution, WW2, dissolution of USSR, 98 economy meltdown didnt break them down, this Ukranian war will?

The intial shock of sanctions gone.

Russia's economy is so driven by the war in Ukraine that it cannot afford to either win or lose, economist says

"A protracted stalemate might be the only solution for Russia to avoid total economic collapse," one economist says.

finance.yahoo.com

The longer the war goes, the economic situation will get very bad for them. Their population is also shrinking rapidly due to war and immigration.

 

[nish_mate]

Russia's economy is so driven by the war in Ukraine that it cannot afford to either win or lose, economist says

"A protracted stalemate might be the only solution for Russia to avoid total economic collapse," one economist says.

finance.yahoo.com

The longer the war goes, the economic situation will get very bad for them. Their population is also shrinking rapidly due to war and immigration.

Ukraines got a smaller population that Russia. They haven't got enough men or women to keep up the defence lunes.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@nish_mate is spot on with his assessment of the UK.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

You are only considering extreme binaries . Either everything is hunky dory or total annihilation of human civilisation.

There is a massive spectrum in between these two extremes. Massive price rises due to supply chain disruption, communication outages caused by satellite warfare. Because of highly integrated supply chains, disruption in one place can cause quality of life issues in other countries, manufacturing can be hit if some ingredients cant be sourced due to war there.

Even in weapons, you are considering only nuclear weapons which only a handful of states posess. But everyone has drones. everyone has uncrewed naval vehicles, dumb bombs etc. It doesnt take a lot to start a conflict. And you are assuming eventually cooler heads prevail and its contained. Which can happen, but twice in last 110 years it spiralled into world wars. There is no guarantee that it will always be contained

Humans have been murdering each other the tunes of millions since before we had cities.
By percentages, we are far far safer from what life was in the past and the trendline is not reversing by even the worst scary scenarios that can happen.
Quality of life might dip a little, but it will still be far far better than life we had 30 or 40 years ago. That assuming even if its worst case scenario.

 

[Red-Indian]

@nish_mate is spot on with his assessment of the UK.

Obviously countries like the UK, France, Japan are in a possibly irreversible state of decline in terms of international influence, quality of life etc. for a lot of the reasons @nish_mate and others have outlined in this thread.

For a lot of us in the developing world though - Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, India and obviously China(who's possible far enough ahead to be in a different category by itself), there's just unbelievable optimism. Not everything's perfect but to have seen the kind of change and progress in standards of living, opportunities, international influence in our lifetimes makes it almost impossible to believe that anything else other than things getting better could be the way forward.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Obviously countries like the UK, France, Japan are in a possibly irreversible state of decline in terms of international influence, quality of life etc. for a lot of the reasons @nish_mate and others have outlined in this thread.

For a lot of us in the developing world though - Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, India and obviously China(who's possible far enough ahead to be in a different category by itself), there's just unbelievable optimism. Not everything's perfect but to have seen the kind of change and progress in standards of living, opportunities, international influence in our lifetimes makes it almost impossible to believe that anything else other than things getting better could be the way forward.

Absolutely agree.

The change you may have seen in some of Indian cities during the tech boom in your lifetime should fill you and young Indians with a sense of optimism.

I've said in the past that many Indian students don't have to dream of migrating to the West to find a top job in a world class company. They can do it at home now. That must fill them, and young parents with a lot of hope and optimism.

It will be the same in most of the countries you mention.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Easily the worst generation to be born into since World War 1.

Obviously countries like the UK, France, Japan are in a possibly irreversible state of decline in terms of international influence, quality of life etc. for a lot of the reasons @nish_mate and others have outlined in this thread.

For a lot of us in the developing world though - Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, India and obviously China(who's possible far enough ahead to be in a different category by itself), there's just unbelievable optimism. Not everything's perfect but to have seen the kind of change and progress in standards of living, opportunities, international influence in our lifetimes makes it almost impossible to believe that anything else other than things getting better could be the way forward.

Interesting take & I agree location is important in many aspects.

Financial security is key living in the developing world, they are way off providing social security to ppl who are poor or have no income .

Do you feel in the next few decades ppl will move to other nations from the Europe ?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Absolutely agree.

The change you may have seen in some of Indian cities during the tech boom in your lifetime should fill you and young Indians with a sense of optimism.

I've said in the past that many Indian students don't have to dream of migrating to the West to find a top job in a world class company. They can do it at home now. That must fill them, and young parents with a lot of hope and optimism.

It will be the same in most of the countries you mention.

The problem is their main customers are in the west or other parts where thr money is. Ie if there is a war in Europe with Russia & one in the Middle East, the effects on the world will also be huge

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The problem is their main customers are in the west or other parts where thr money is. Ie if there is a war in Europe with Russia & one in the Middle East, the effects on the world will also be huge

Still its an overall sign of optimism and positivity. Obviously things can go drastically wrong but they have systems in place that will allow them to profit if things do well.

Compared with two countries I care about - UK and Pakistan which are both in decline, no signs of a way out. Disaster whatever happens.

 

[Technics 1210]

Interesting take & I agree location is important in many aspects.

Financial security is key living in the developing world, they are way off providing social security to ppl who are poor or have no income .

Do you feel in the next few decades ppl will move to other nations from the Europe ?

The ground realities only hit you hard when becoming a parent.

Born in the UK and as a child, we are processed through the UK system - from infant school all the way to present and everything that comes with it. Quality of living, opportunities, society, etc etc. As a parent you then have to put your child through the same system but only this time you're the one not being processed, but are the one who has to do the processing.

It is then you realise just how gutter crap the country has become, compounded by the fact, a parent is constantly thinking of the safety of their child - and this sort of subconscious but natural fear & concern.

A single, or married couple, have more options to move, migrate, because they have a greater appetite for risk since no children are involved.

And you are 100% right. At the end of the day. if you are rich, then it doesn't really matter what the state of the country is.

I sure miss the 70s and 80s in London. What a time it was.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Still its an overall sign of optimism and positivity. Obviously things can go drastically wrong but they have systems in place that will allow them to profit if things do well.

Compared with two countries I care about - UK and Pakistan which are both in decline, no signs of a way out. Disaster whatever happens.

There are a number of people moving around the world but it’s a stressful task when you’ve lived the uk , however many of our parents & grandparents had to endure harder times coming to the uk but made it work through their own hard work.

Moving children would be even more tougher if they are used to the life here . For many free education has changed future generations, this is why you can grow up poor in the uk & become a Dr or other well paid professional. Countries without a welfare social state such as India will only have limited growth & may never get out of 3rd status .

 

[KingKhanWC]

The ground realities only hit you hard when becoming a parent.

Born in the UK and as a child, we are processed through the UK system - from infant school all the way to present and everything that comes with it. Quality of living, opportunities, society, etc etc. As a parent you then have to put your child through the same system but only this time you're the one not being processed, but are the one who has to do the processing.

It is then you realise just how gutter crap the country has become, compounded by the fact, a parent is constantly thinking of the safety of their child - and this sort of subconscious but natural fear & concern.

A single, or married couple, have more options to move, migrate, because they have a greater appetite for risk since no children are involved.

And you are 100% right. At the end of the day. if you are rich, then it doesn't really matter what the state of the country is.

I sure miss the 70s and 80s in London. What a time it was.

UK in the 80s & 90s was incredible, imo the greatest cultural nation to live in.

Kids would play out all summer , the streets were very safe in general. The family system was encouraged, not many of my school friends had only a single parent . The house prices were cheap , 3-4x annual avg salary , now for those early 30k it’s tough to buy a 2 bed .

Even the music , tv & public shows were great .

The rich are still enjoying all of this as they live in the countryside, the towns are sadly wrecked.

From 80s to now in just 50 odd years from a Christian god fearing society to a liberal secular godless shambles . From the biggest empire to a small island wing town street shops boarded up.

 

[Red-Indian]

Absolutely agree.

The change you may have seen in some of Indian cities during the tech boom in your lifetime should fill you and young Indians with a sense of optimism.

I've said in the past that many Indian students don't have to dream of migrating to the West to find a top job in a world class company. They can do it at home now. That must fill them, and young parents with a lot of hope and optimism.

It will be the same in most of the countries you mention.

Interesting take & I agree location is important in many aspects.

Financial security is key living in the developing world, they are way off providing social security to ppl who are poor or have no income .

Do you feel in the next few decades ppl will move to other nations from the Europe ?

Agreed. I know it's dangerous to speak from anecdotal, especially personal experience but I returned to India after close to 5 years in the States for parent's health reasons. I had to take a 40% salary cut but the quality of life improvement I experienced was huge. The fresh Chartered Accountants and MBAs I now hire (and I hire a couple of dozen each year) are a sea change from what I was 25 years ago when I started my career when we were happy to just get a campus placement. All ambitious - expecting a global career and to flit back and forth between postings abroad and in India. The poor have still to experience this change but the safety net is expanding and even they will feel the impact by the next generation

On the second question, of the future of Europe and actually most of the West, it's tough to say. There'll be winners and losers obviously. Those who're able to control migration well and have some natural resources to fall back on (like Norway) will do a lot better than countries like Japan which don't have any cultural room for migration or the UK which seem to have a made a mess of directing migration to the right areas which would give the economy a boost. It'll be a slow decline with a lot of raging against the dying of the light but a decline is almost inevitable.

 

[oatmeal]

Obviously countries like the UK, France, Japan are in a possibly irreversible state of decline in terms of international influence, quality of life etc. for a lot of the reasons @nish_mate and others have outlined in this thread.

For a lot of us in the developing world though - Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Brazil, India and obviously China(who's possible far enough ahead to be in a different category by itself), there's just unbelievable optimism. Not everything's perfect but to have seen the kind of change and progress in standards of living, opportunities, international influence in our lifetimes makes it almost impossible to believe that anything else other than things getting better could be the way forward.

Having lived in both India and UK, I agree that life has drastically improved in India in the last 20-25 years. When I was growing up 3-4 hours load shedding was the norm, economic growth was non existent. But since the late 90s , purchasing power increased, infrastructure was developed , new shopping malls etc, more disposable income for the middle class etc

But even today there is no comparison between the quality of life in India and the developed world. There is rampant overcrowding, power/water supply remains unreliable even though there is no large scale load shedding, roads are bad and no one follows traffic rules unless there is a policeman visible. Zero chance of getting any work done in government without paying bribes or agents

UK doesnt have any of those problems. The problem is that the quality of life here is stagnant or slightly reducing. For people who have no other frame of reference, this feels bad.

But for someone like me, NHS has been fantastic and costs nothing when I needed to use it (3 or 4 times), Government schools are free and really good. Nursery is free for 15 hours a week. I can deal with the government without paying any bribes. People generally treat you in good faith. I havent had a single electricity outage lasting longer than 2 minutes in the last 10 years, no water supply interruptions more than 10 minutes either. Crime is very low.

 

[Red-Indian]

Having lived in both India and UK, I agree that life has drastically improved in India in the last 20-25 years. When I was growing up 3-4 hours load shedding was the norm, economic growth was non existent. But since the late 90s , purchasing power increased, infrastructure was developed , new shopping malls etc, more disposable income for the middle class etc

But even today there is no comparison between the quality of life in India and the developed world. There is rampant overcrowding, power/water supply remains unreliable even though there is no large scale load shedding, roads are bad and no one follows traffic rules unless there is a policeman visible. Zero chance of getting any work done in government without paying bribes or agents

UK doesnt have any of those problems. The problem is that the quality of life here is stagnant or slightly reducing. For people who have no other frame of reference, this feels bad.

But for someone like me, NHS has been fantastic and costs nothing when I needed to use it (3 or 4 times), Government schools are free and really good. Nursery is free for 15 hours a week. I can deal with the government without paying any bribes. People generally treat you in good faith. I havent had a single electricity outage lasting longer than 2 minutes in the last 10 years, no water supply interruptions more than 10 minutes either. Crime is very low.

I think this deserves a long answer and I'm (pretending to be) busy at work right now so will take time to address it later.

I'll just say this as a person who's lived for a lot of time both abroad (in the States and Greece) and in India and has now become an unofficial consultant to friends and family who are weighing whether to return to India or stay abroad, it's a lot tougher decision than it's ever been. It really comes down to what your priorities in terms of quality of life are but for an earning professional i.e. white collar guy/gal, standard of living like health facilities, access to education are not a huge differentiator.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Having lived in both India and UK, I agree that life has drastically improved in India in the last 20-25 years. When I was growing up 3-4 hours load shedding was the norm, economic growth was non existent. But since the late 90s , purchasing power increased, infrastructure was developed , new shopping malls etc, more disposable income for the middle class etc

But even today there is no comparison between the quality of life in India and the developed world. There is rampant overcrowding, power/water supply remains unreliable even though there is no large scale load shedding, roads are bad and no one follows traffic rules unless there is a policeman visible. Zero chance of getting any work done in government without paying bribes or agents

UK doesnt have any of those problems. The problem is that the quality of life here is stagnant or slightly reducing. For people who have no other frame of reference, this feels bad.

But for someone like me, NHS has been fantastic and costs nothing when I needed to use it (3 or 4 times), Government schools are free and really good. Nursery is free for 15 hours a week. I can deal with the government without paying any bribes. People generally treat you in good faith. I havent had a single electricity outage lasting longer than 2 minutes in the last 10 years, no water supply interruptions more than 10 minutes either. Crime is very low.

I think people gloss over those less perceptible quality of life factors. I know you can live in spectacular homes in Islamabad or Lahore, in Islamabad it's a wonderful climate and the scenery is second to none. But it's the day to day stuff which would wear a first worlder down. Poor traffic control, lack of proper procedure and accountability. I suppose in your case not to bad as you are probably Indian by birth, but for me first language is English and that has to be a must in any country I live.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Agreed. I know it's dangerous to speak from anecdotal, especially personal experience but I returned to India after close to 5 years in the States for parent's health reasons. I had to take a 40% salary cut but the quality of life improvement I experienced was huge. The fresh Chartered Accountants and MBAs I now hire (and I hire a couple of dozen each year) are a sea change from what I was 25 years ago when I started my career when we were happy to just get a campus placement. All ambitious - expecting a global career and to flit back and forth between postings abroad and in India. The poor have still to experience this change but the safety net is expanding and even they will feel the impact by the next generation

On the second question, of the future of Europe and actually most of the West, it's tough to say. There'll be winners and losers obviously. Those who're able to control migration well and have some natural resources to fall back on (like Norway) will do a lot better than countries like Japan which don't have any cultural room for migration or the UK which seem to have a made a mess of directing migration to the right areas which would give the economy a boost. It'll be a slow decline with a lot of raging against the dying of the light but a decline is almost inevitable.

Agreed. I know it's dangerous to speak from anecdotal, especially personal experience but I returned to India after close to 5 years in the States for parent's health reasons. I had to take a 40% salary cut but the quality of life improvement I experienced was huge. The fresh Chartered Accountants and MBAs I now hire (and I hire a couple of dozen each year) are a sea change from what I was 25 years ago when I started my career when we were happy to just get a campus placement. All ambitious - expecting a global career and to flit back and forth between postings abroad and in India. The poor have still to experience this change but the safety net is expanding and even they will feel the impact by the next generation

On the second question, of the future of Europe and actually most of the West, it's tough to say. There'll be winners and losers obviously. Those who're able to control migration well and have some natural resources to fall back on (like Norway) will do a lot better than countries like Japan which don't have any cultural room for migration or the UK which seem to have a made a mess of directing migration to the right areas which would give the economy a boost. It'll be a slow decline with a lot of raging against the dying of the light but a decline is almost inevitable.

You make an important point , you were willing to sacrifice money to care for your parents & it turned out ok. This is because you have the traditional family values. This is declining in the west , it’s not just standard of living but living in an a traditional society where respect for parents , teachers , elders is normal .

Do you see the moral decline of modern western civilisation a cause for concern to this society & could children be better off in a different environment or is being around it better ?

Safety is a big issue , earlier a 50 yr old bus driver was stabbed to death on his way home . Last year a 19 yr old British Pakistani was stabbed to death in bham city centre while out in the day , mistaken identify. Random killings seem to be increasing hugely .

 

[oatmeal]

I think this deserves a long answer and I'm (pretending to be) busy at work right now so will take time to address it later.

I'll just say this as a person who's lived for a lot of time both abroad (in the States and Greece) and in India and has now become an unofficial consultant to friends and family who are weighing whether to return to India or stay abroad, it's a lot tougher decision than it's ever been. It really comes down to what your priorities in terms of quality of life are but for an earning professional i.e. white collar guy/gal, standard of living like health facilities, access to education are not a huge differentiator.

I think people gloss over those less perceptible quality of life factors. I know you can live in spectacular homes in Islamabad or Lahore, in Islamabad it's a wonderful climate and the scenery is second to none. But it's the day to day stuff which would wear a first worlder down. Poor traffic control, lack of proper procedure and accountability. I suppose in your case not to bad as you are probably Indian by birth, but for me first language is English and that has to be a must in any country I live.

I think both of your posts address a similar point so I'll reply to them together. Basically for the upper-upper middle class, its possible to sequester yourself from many of the issues in the developing world. Live in the gated communities with power backup and assured water supply, similar economic status folks in the community, go to top schools , the best private hospitals which offer good care. With cheap labour in India, people can indeed experience top class quality of life that isnt accessible to anyone but the very rich in the developed world

But you cant spend your whole life in that bubble, you have to use the same roads, interact with the same law and order system, government officials, worry about crime. Air quality is still poor for everyone.

In the west a lot of that is available to the average joe on the street working a minimum wage job at a supermarket. the median quality of life is so far ahead that its not in the same ballpark.

 

[Local.Dada]

I think this deserves a long answer and I'm (pretending to be) busy at work right now so will take time to address it later.

I'll just say this as a person who's lived for a lot of time both abroad (in the States and Greece) and in India and has now become an unofficial consultant to friends and family who are weighing whether to return to India or stay abroad, it's a lot tougher decision than it's ever been. It really comes down to what your priorities in terms of quality of life are but for an earning professional i.e. white collar guy/gal, standard of living like health facilities, access to education are not a huge differentiator.

You have the money, the quality of life is much better than India. You don’t have money, west definitely has more fair opportunities to make money. It’s as simple as that.

 

[JaDed]

Cycles of civilisation, we had a lot of peace(comparatively) globally for years, then covid happened.

There is distrust in institutions which is causing this anger.

 

[Red-Indian]

I think both of your posts address a similar point so I'll reply to them together. Basically for the upper-upper middle class, its possible to sequester yourself from many of the issues in the developing world. Live in the gated communities with power backup and assured water supply, similar economic status folks in the community, go to top schools , the best private hospitals which offer good care. With cheap labour in India, people can indeed experience top class quality of life that isnt accessible to anyone but the very rich in the developed world

But you cant spend your whole life in that bubble, you have to use the same roads, interact with the same law and order system, government officials, worry about crime. Air quality is still poor for everyone.

In the west a lot of that is available to the average joe on the street working a minimum wage job at a supermarket. the median quality of life is so far ahead that its not in the same ballpark.

Yes a lot of people have acknowledged this and I fully accept I come from a position of a lot of privilege.

Life in the States, in the relatively smaller city where I lived was pretty high quality. Lot of public amenities like parks, gardens, the whole sense of security, rule following culture, the size of the house I lived in etc. But on the other hand, I was away from family and the social circle that implied and I had a lot more manual labour to do. We had a maid coming in for a couple of hours a week and that's the total extent of help I had.

In India, since I moved back, my social life is just awesome - family, friends, food I love, cultural events like concerts etc. Lot of help - maid, baby maid, cook, had a driver till I realised it was pointless. I know I live in an oasis - a gated community with every amenity imaginable, failsafe power backup, high quality schools, medical care. Flip side you're right - every time you come into contact with the real world, it's a frustrating, annoying experience.

One thing I'd disagree with you though - the number of Indians who have a decision to make between the two lifestyles. It's still not available as you say to the average joe but millions of folks working in Technology, Finance etc. have that option. I just yesterday had a guy decline an opportunity to move to Europe for a minimum 3 year assignment because as he said - "he's got too many commitments and connections at home right now." I was really counting on him to agree and am scrambling to find a replacement.

 

[oatmeal]

One thing I'd disagree with you though - the number of Indians who have a decision to make between the two lifestyles. It's still not available as you say to the average joe but millions of folks working in Technology, Finance etc. have that option. I just yesterday had a guy decline an opportunity to move to Europe for a minimum 3 year assignment because as he said - "he's got too many commitments and connections at home right now." I was really counting on him to agree and am scrambling to find a replacement.

I agree, someone working in a high paying job in IT doesnt have that big of a lifestyle jump and reduction in some areas while moving west. There is also the part of living far away from your family and friends which isnt good.

But personally I never regretted the decision

 

[ElRaja]

people were complaining abt future generations during ancient greek times. teach your kids right from wrong and how to think independently and they'll find a way through this. having said that i think my generation was the luckiest in terms of having all the benefits of tech, and none of the borderline psychotic behaviours related to social media.

also the wokeness has gone crazy, outsourcing ideology to the state is a very bad long term move. in my days teachers had all sorts of political views, and encouraged that in kids. nowadays social media means teachers will never speak their mind for misgendering someone, offending someones' parents religious beliefs, or some woke crowd not even in the class.

people will find a way to deal with this, however society will ultimately be a bit weird and withdrawn because all interaction in the social media age has become self incriminating if someone gets offended by what you say. at some point i think we'll reach a point where sharing someones video on social media without their permission will become a criminal or at least civil offense.

 

[oatmeal]

also the wokeness has gone crazy, outsourcing ideology to the state is a very bad long term move. in my days teachers had all sorts of political views, and encouraged that in kids. nowadays social media means teachers will never speak their mind for misgendering someone, offending someones' parents religious beliefs, or some woke crowd not even in the class.

This wokeness argument is interesting , because you often find EDL types claiming that wokeness is the reason Islam or immigrants cant be criticised.

So every group has its own sliver of opinion they would like to be able to express freely without criticism or risking offense. But other political opinions shouldnt because they are offensive

 

[ElRaja]

This wokeness argument is interesting , because you often find EDL types claiming that wokeness is the reason Islam or immigrants cant be criticised.

So every group has its own sliver of opinion they would like to be able to express freely without criticism or risking offense. But other political opinions shouldnt because they are offensive

exactly, but you need to teach kids that its right to hold any kinda thought in their head if they are developing their characters, cos they need to figure out why they believe something is right or wrong, not because you are told so. its crazy dogmatic and has replaced theological religion with a political religion.

the current generation are being taught that's its wrong to question certain narratives or even think in a certain way, and that is the foundation of dogmatic brainwashing 101.

 

[Technics 1210]

Past, present, and future generations will continue to be told it is wrong to question certain narratives.

Try questioning Darwinian Evolution in school, try criticising Zionism, try another political narrative and you're a target. We all know the score.

Brainwashing is when the public attack the person who question the status quo and narratives, lots of examples of PP.

Wokeness is one thing, but this Rainbow Mafia is the kiss of death for the West. When your child is taught that being gay is normal, then in the next class teach kids that a male and female are required to procreate, then teach them that humans can identify themselves as man or woman based on how they feel in the mornings, then you know the end is nigh.

 

[ElRaja]

Past, present, and future generations will continue to be told it is wrong to question certain narratives.

Try questioning Darwinian Evolution in school, try criticising Zionism, try another political narrative and you're a target. We all know the score.

Brainwashing is when the public attack the person who question the status quo and narratives, lots of examples of PP.

Wokeness is one thing, but this Rainbow Mafia is the kiss of death for the West. When your child is taught that being gay is normal, then in the next class teach kids that a male and female are required to procreate, then teach them that humans can identify themselves as man or woman based on how they feel in the mornings, then you know the end is nigh.

i grew up questioning everything. my teachers were a mix of creationists and non-creationists, i believed in Abrahamic creation stories when i was a kid, i went and gave a debate in favour of the Iraq war cos the class was split into two on a summers day and the side arguing against was sitting in the sun, my history teacher said "this is the stuff you have to learn to pass the exams, read it in your own time, we're watching roots", kids had debates on empire, and racism, and everything. heck, i was even a borderline socialist back then.

no one ever held my views against me or told me they were wrong, because they all never feared airing their views, the fear of being recorded and reported changed all that. its simply not worth losing your job over. the government could easily legislate to mitigate the fear, but they choose not to because they get greater control over the narrative.

 

[oatmeal]

exactly, but you need to teach kids that its right to hold any kinda thought in their head if they are developing their characters, cos they need to figure out why they believe something is right or wrong, not because you are told so. its crazy dogmatic and has replaced theological religion with a political religion.

the current generation are being taught that's its wrong to question certain narratives or even think in a certain way, and that is the foundation of dogmatic brainwashing 101.

I think you will find that kids today have a far wider range of thoughts and opinions than the generations above us.

Family is the number one source of dogmatic thought in our lives. How many things do you consider as the absolute truth. Religion for example. 99% of the religious beliefs are drilled into people by their family and society. Would you be the same religion if your parents were not. Highly likely not, you would believe the things they taught you.

The problem here is not independent thought, it's that you disagree with the kind of thoughts and opinions they are forming because of outside influence.

 

[Technics 1210]

i grew up questioning everything. my teachers were a mix of creationists and non-creationists, i believed in Abrahamic creation stories when i was a kid, i went and gave a debate in favour of the Iraq war cos the class was split into two on a summers day and the side arguing against was sitting in the sun, my history teacher said "this is the stuff you have to learn to pass the exams, read it in your own time, we're watching roots", kids had debates on empire, and racism, and everything. heck, i was even a borderline socialist back then.

no one ever held my views against me or told me they were wrong, because they all never feared airing their views, the fear of being recorded and reported changed all that. its simply not worth losing your job over. the government could easily legislate to mitigate the fear, but they choose not to because they get greater control over the narrative.

I got to question loads too, until I realised that questioning the Jews, WW1&2, and Zionism were always shot down and filed under 'taboo' or what not. The brainwashed reaction was always being labelled an anti-semite by society just for questioning, or worse yet, refusing to accept the narrative.

The government has no control over the narrative anymore thanks to the internet. Brexit, Trump, Ukraine - are just few examples. Cannot control the internet like the Radio, TV, and Newspapers.

I don't know if you were born in the UK or not, but decline in values - family and religious - is the one sole reason the UK has become a dump.

 

[oatmeal]

Kids question everything today too, it was kids who stood up for Palestine at cost to themselves. It was kids who demonstrated against the Vietnam war and Iraq war. The adults were calling those opinions extreme.

In the uk kids are able to have an honest conversation about the legacy of Churchill, the racism of the empire, the thefts of the British museum. But that makes the adults uncomfortable.

Regarding trans people they don't change their gender based on their whims. Trans kids face bullying and struggles with mental health. Here also kids are more accepting than the adults who find it weird.just like adults found gays weird 20-30 years ago even though homosexuality has been around since start of humanity