Do you wear a Poppy?

[Donal Cozzie]

Interesting viewpoint from professional footballer James McLean, who has written to Wigan chairman Dave Whelan to explain why he doesnt wear a poppy.

Dear Mr Whelan

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton.

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars – many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those.

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one.

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this.

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me.

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Ireland’s history – even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth.

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles – and Bloody Sunday especially – as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII.

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people.

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent.

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if you’re a man you should stand up for what you believe in.

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons.

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the club’s supporters this explanation.

Yours sincerely,

James McClean”

 

[Gilly]

I will buy an extra poppy this year just for KingKhanWC.

 

[Robert]

Interesting viewpoint from professional footballer James McLean, who has written to Wigan chairman Dave Whelan to explain why he doesnt wear a poppy.

I think he conflates the poppy with British imperialism. But the soldiers don't have any choice in where they are posted.

 

[Robert]

HM The Queen was given a round of applause at the Cenotaph today, which is unheard of at this sombre occasion.

Perhaps the people were saluting her pluck for coming out amid rumours of a plot to attack her.

 

[sh47]

I think he conflates the poppy with British imperialism. But the soldiers don't have any choice in where they are posted.

haha, as if they don't know what they are signing up for. Just because someone else gives the order for you to pull the trigger doesn't make you any less responsible.

 

[sh47]

I've contemplated wearing a poppy this year but like [MENTION=54833]Andrew Hughes[/MENTION] said, it's more for "patriotism" then just remembering those who fought in WW1 and WW2. Am more then willing to make a donation, but i don't want it to go to the savages that fought in afg and iraq.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

I think he conflates the poppy with British imperialism. But the soldiers don't have any choice in where they are posted.

Agree to an extent. But in the end if you pull the trigger you are responsible for the consequences.

If the poppy was used to commemorate WW1 and WW2 soldiers only, and the proceeds of it were to go to surviving veterans, building/maintaining memorials or hosting other events, then I'm 100% sure not one person would object to wearing a poppy.

But alas its used to commemorate all soldiers since ww2 as well, and understandably a fair few people like@sh47 would object to that and thus they dont wear one.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The poppy would be just as much of a fuss in Pakistan if they ever tried to commemorate their dead since 1947
I can still visually image the ads for the campaign in North Waziristan during Ramadan

 

[Robert]

Agree to an extent. But in the end if you pull the trigger you are responsible for the consequences.

Regarding The Troubles, whoever had the brilliant idea to send The Parachute Regiment (who are trained to jump into the laps of SS Panzer divisions and hold bridges against overwhelming odds) to control demonstrators armed with bricks and petrol bombs is the one responsible IMO. It was a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

You ask the Dutch people what they think of the British Army.

If the poppy was used to commemorate WW1 and WW2 soldiers only, and the proceeds of it were to go to surviving veterans, building/maintaining memorials or hosting other events, then I'm 100% sure not one person would object to wearing a poppy.

But alas its used to commemorate all soldiers since ww2 as well, and understandably a fair few people like@sh47 would object to that and thus they dont wear one.

It's a lot more complex than that. If war breaks out, civilians will get killed by soldiers. How many German civilians died under the 1940-45 RAF bombing campaign, compared to those in The Troubles, do you think?

As for "savages" in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm saddened by this slur. The British Army has stringent rules of engagement to protect civilians before they open fire, which were drawn up in part because of the Bloody Sunday atrocity. Of course there will always be bad soldiers who break those rules, but they are brought up on criminal charges.

HM Gov sends out young men and women to see and do horrible things, and many come home with their minds shattered as a result. The Poppy is a gesture of support for them.

 

[shaykh]

An interesting article on how WWI is exploited to promote modern militarism...



THE GOVERNMENT is unveiling commemorative paving stones laid in the birth places of those members of the British Empire forces in World War I who received the Victoria Cross for their bravery. The government’s stated aims are to “provide a lasting legacy of local heroes” and “honour their bravery”. All 627 Victoria Cross recipients will be so honoured over the next four years, with the promise that “no hero will be forgotten”.

This represents the most radical remaking of Great War commemoration for decades. It turns the emphasis from grief at a costly tragedy to lionisation of the warrior. It is a move that has more to do with the contemporary politics of militarism than with any genuine attempt to honour the memory of those who lost their lives between 1914 and 1918.

The prime minister, David Cameron, candidly revealed his politics when, in unveiling plans in 2012 for the centenary commemorations, he said he wanted: “A commemoration that captures our national spirit in every corner of the country … like the Diamond Jubilee”.

What, you may ask, is wrong with celebrating heroes in this way?

War to end all wars

It is an attempt to rewrite the history of the war as somehow glorious and necessary. The war was an ugly clash of imperial rivalries, marked by the unspeakable horrors of trench warfare. Far from proving “the war to end of all wars”, it scarred a nation whose sons would be sent to die against the same enemy within a generation.

Veterans also tend to baulk at their lauding as “heroes”, explaining themselves more humbly as men just doing their jobs and looking out for their comrades. Great War memorials rarely record either rank or medals, but are starkly simple alphabetical lists of all those who had their lives taken from them. By singling out only those men who received the top military award, the government is tearing up a century of practice.

Why has the government taken this radical departure? The answer is in part a reaction to the public scepticism about military operations that has become mainstream with the failures of the “War on Terror”. The unprecedented anti-war demonstrations against the Afghanistan and Iraq wars in the early 2000s may represent a sea-change in public attitudes to foreign wars. This has alarmed conservative politicians of all parties and the military top brass, who have been scrambling to regain ground ever since.

This began in earnest with then prime minister Gordon Brown’s 2008 report on the National Recognition of Our Armed Forces. It identified a supposed lack of public understanding of the military due to decreased “familiarity”. The response to this perceived malady was to recommend a range of measures including celebratory home-coming parades, encouraging soldiers to wear uniforms in public and greater military presence in secondary schools and national sporting events. This was a grievous misdiagnosis: the real reason for the supposed disconnect was a reaction to the deceits and failures of Tony Blair’s Iraq invasion.

Cameron shared Brown’s concern about the increasing drift of British public opinion towards pacifism. The commemorative paving stones must be interpreted as a further attempt to rehabilitate the military. But Cameron has been cannier than Brown – whereas it was easy to decry the bogus logic in Brown’s initiative, it is hardly tasteful to protest at the unveiling of monument to a dead soldier.

They also served …

So how can we counter this shameless use of World War I to re-militarise the present? By celebrating and commemorating those who, in their foresight, opposed or questioned the industrial slaughter of World War I. These included women’s activists, Christians and political radicals who strove to recapture visions of a unified and pacific Europe – as well as the many workers who went on strike and soldiers who mutinied. These men and women exhibited great bravery, facing scorn, impoverishment, prison and death. Although widely reviled at the time, history has vindicated their opposition to a catastrophic conflict that decimated Europe and need never have been fought.

Of course, no British government will lavish funds on those types of commemorations. It falls to citizens and scholars to recover and retell these histories – as indeed they are doing up and down the country through books, talks, exhibitions, music, drama and art.

But these activities usually require substantial effort, particularly in researching their background. Here’s an easier suggestion: help your community celebrate the centenary of the December 1914 Christmas truces.

The truces commonly began with German soldiers putting up Christmas trees, shouting or writing Christmas greetings, and singing carols recognisable to their British counterparts. Troops met in no-man’s land to bury their dead, exchange gifts and souvenirs, share festive food and drink, sing and entertain each other, swap names and addresses, pose for photographs, conduct joint religious services, and play football.

These were not isolated incidents but were widespread right down the western front. Although the most famous, the 1914 Christmas truces weren’t one-off events. Throughout the entire war many combatants managed, through a “live-and-let-live” system, to reduce risk of discomfort and death by complicated local truces and tacit understandings that enraged the high commands of both sides and discredited the jingoistic propaganda that they pedalled.

The extraordinary events of 100 Christmases ago are easy to celebrate this year, as a variety of non-profit organisations have produced resources to help schools, churches and civic institutions mark them – and, in so doing, critically reflect on both the legacy of World War I and the continuation of war in our world.

The tragedy of World War I needs remembering - but not in a way that reinforces militarism today. It is fitting to recall Siegfried Sassoon’s verdict on an earlier government’s attempt to memorialise the dead, the Menin Gate in Belgium.

Who will remember, passing through this Gate
the unheroic dead who fed the guns?
The poet threw his Military Cross into the Mersey in 1917 as part of what he described as “an act of wilful defiance of military authority". His sombre verdict on what the fallen may have thought of the Menin Gate’s “peace complacent stone” is worth recalling as the government of today lays paving stones around the country:

Well might the Dead who struggled in the slime
Rise and deride this sepulchre of crime.

 

[Robert]

An interesting article on how WWI is exploited to promote modern militarism...

I don't think it is. I think there is tremendous interest in the period because of the centenary, and because the modern individualistic British do not understand their grandsires' willingness to accept the wholesale slaughter of the trenches.

There were a couple of BBC programmes on how Britain's contribution to ISAF is our last great overseas deployment. The military has been shrinking for decades and we are deeply in debt. We just can't afford war any more.

 

[imrankhannsu]

You dont have to wear a Poppy to show support. Some may argue, muslims do respect Jesus Christ as he is considered a Prophet in Islam, but that doesnot mean muslims are expected to wear a cross to show their respect.

 

[Robert]

You dont have to wear a Poppy to show support.

This is a good point and there seems to be a sort of poppy-fascism emerging of late. Not only does one feel pressure to wear it, but now the leaf has to be pointing at 11 o'clock too!

 

[s28]

Poppy fascism by Seinfeld

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3iV8X8ubGCc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Robert]

'Good-morning; good-morning!’ the General said
When we met him last week on our way to the line.
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of ’em dead,
And we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
‘He’s a cheery old card,’ grunted Harry to Jack
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.

.....but he did for them both by his plan of attack.

 

[Thivagar]

British Asians aren't patriotic so don't expect it from them. I don't wear them cause it always end up poking my nipple.

 

[Syed1]

I don't wear it because I don't relate to it

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

British Asians aren't patriotic so don't expect it from them. I don't wear them cause it always end up poking my nipple.

Lots of British Asians will have lost members of their families in early generations during the world wars as they fought for the British Empire. If that was more widespread knowledge, then perhaps you would get more British Asians wearing the poppy with pride.

 

[Robert]

Lots of British Asians will have lost members of their families in early generations during the world wars as they fought for the British Empire. If that was more widespread knowledge, then perhaps you would get more British Asians wearing the poppy with pride.

Yep, all along the line on the Western Front and in central Africa too in WW1, and in WW2 everywhere. Hundreds of thousands of them.

 

[The_KING]

No, I don't because I don't like showing off.

 

[ExplicitAI]

I remember wanting to wear one badly during primary school because they looked cool. Nowadays I don't wear them because I can't relate to WW2, although I don't have any disrespect for any of the British soldiers who fought for us.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I remember wanting to wear one badly during primary school because they looked cool. Nowadays I don't wear them because I can't relate to WW2, although I don't have any disrespect for any of the British soldiers who fought for us.

This is actually quite representative of the knowledge of British desis who are brought up in the UK.

 

[shaz619]

British Asians aren't patriotic so don't expect it from them. I don't wear them cause it always end up poking my nipple.

Andrew Hughes pointed out that the idea of wearing the pupi was to glorify the idea of war and sacrifice but each generation carved out it's own purpose for wearing it but the general idea has been to remember those who died in the war; the simpletons who actually defend their country irrespective of how they felt given that death was almost certain. In decades that have gone past most tend to wear it out of patriotism more then anything and personally don't think that's the right thing to do. I respectfully observe the 1 minute silence though.

 

[shaz619]

Lots of British Asians will have lost members of their families in early generations during the world wars as they fought for the British Empire. If that was more widespread knowledge, then perhaps you would get more British Asians wearing the poppy with pride.

tbh they just don't give a crap and that's the truth irrespective of whether they have knowledge of whether their ancestors fought in the war; peeps these days don't even respect their parents so why are they going to care for folk they have no attachment to who gave their lives in the war. And you can say that for 90% of the people who even wear the pupi in Britain since the main reason is the euphoria of patriotism and glorifying the act of war itself instead of having a think about what those who died may have gone through. When someone puts a gun in your hand and you're made to take a life with little guarantee that you're going to survive yourself; I doubt the soldier will be thinking about patriotism or pride.

 

[Alizai]

Nah, supports troops who kill innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan

 

[Adijazz1706]

Ironically, the poppy could be seen as the symbol of the boom in the Afghan opium trade since it was occupied by NATO

 

[Garuda]

I always respect it and like people wearing it. However, I haven't wearing it as I don't feel connected to the cause.

However, my 6 year old wears it as she connects much more than me. Her words "this is for those soldiers who fought and died for "us"".


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[Robert]

And you can say that for 90% of the people who even wear the pupi in Britain since the main reason is the euphoria of patriotism and glorifying the act of war itself instead of having a think about what those who died may have gone through.

You can say it, but you'd be wrong.

Watch the Armistice Parade tomorrow. No euphoria, no glorification. Sad music, everyone in black, very sombre. I always watch and I always cry, but I smile too at the camaraderie and pride of the old boys - fewer every year - marching after the ceremony.

 

[s28]

actions speak louder than words

if they truly did believe the empty words of 'we will remember them' they would know how pointless most wars are and not send more young men to their deaths on concocted dossiers

 

[WC-Passion]

I remember wanting to wear one badly during primary school because they looked cool. Nowadays I don't wear them because I can't relate to WW2, although I don't have any disrespect for any of the British soldiers who fought for us.

Similar to some people I knew back then, but I just get one if I have money on me and the school are selling them.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Similar to some people I knew back then, but I just get one if I have money on me and the school are selling them.

They were the rage back in the day.

 

[PCP_1]

Not really, but I smoke one every now and then.

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[chacha kashmiri]

actions speak louder than words

if they truly did believe the empty words of 'we will remember them' they would know how pointless most wars are and not send more young men to their deaths on concocted dossiers

The hundred years small pin poppy is quite a somber but remindful instrument

Although I have roots in the First World War it's not really something south Asians tend to remember say the same way Turks celebrate Gallipoli

I doubt they fought just so their great grandkids could be shipped off to help a depleted Britain while being reminded on a daily basis how lucky they were to have been born there rather than the land of their great grandparents

 

[Robert]

actions speak louder than words

if they truly did believe the empty words of 'we will remember them' they would know how pointless most wars are and not send more young men to their deaths on concocted dossiers

'They' are a very few individuals. 'We' outnumber 'they' by millions to one.

 

[Markhor]

Every year we have this poppy debate and the bigger discussion about how our political and business elite always drag us into costly wars gets sidetracked.

Fact is its sickening to see the likes of Tony Blair turn up to the Cenotaph every year having on his hands the blood of hundreds of British troops not to mention thousands of civilians in Iraq.

Every year the Prime Minister gives lip service about "never forget" - yet Britain is one of the biggest arms exporters in the world ! What bit are we doing to end these wars ? Its not enough to bow our heads, be silent for two minutes at 11am and pay lip service every 11th November - we should actually DO something to stop these conflicts from occurring. Look how desperate the UK government is right now to bomb the daylights out of Syria when we should be looking for a diplomatic end to this war. Why is war a first resort and not a last resort ?

I say this every year - the politicians start the wars and its the people who die fighting them.

 

[Syed1]

Every year we have this poppy debate and the bigger discussion about how our political and business elite always drag us into costly wars gets sidetracked.

Fact is its sickening to see the likes of Tony Blair turn up to the Cenotaph every year having on his hands the blood of hundreds of British troops not to mention thousands of civilians in Iraq.

Every year the Prime Minister gives lip service about "never forget" - yet Britain is one of the biggest arms exporters in the world ! What bit are we doing to end these wars ? Its not enough to bow our heads, be silent for two minutes at 11am and pay lip service every 11th November - we should actually DO something to stop these conflicts from occurring. Look how desperate the UK government is right now to bomb the daylights out of Syria when we should be looking for a diplomatic end to this war. Why is war a first resort and not a last resort ?

I say this every year - the politicians start the wars and its the people who die fighting them.

Its even funnier when Americans celebrate 11th November.

The biggest terrorist state in the world who dropped two nuclear bombs and they have the audacity to claim "never forget"

 

[Robert]

Its even funnier when Americans celebrate 11th November.

The biggest terrorist state in the world who dropped two nuclear bombs and they have the audacity to claim "never forget"

Those two nuclear attacks saved millions of people in the longer run. You have to think in terms of opportunity cost for it to make sense.

 

[Adil_94]

British Asians aren't patriotic so don't expect it from them. I don't wear them cause it always end up poking my nipple.

British Sikhs are more likely to wear the poppy than other Brit Asian groups. They show a lot of pride in the fact they fought for the British in both wars. They are also used by far right organisations as propaganda to show Sikhs as good guys as compared to Muslims.

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[Adil_94]

Those two nuclear attacks saved millions of people in the longer run. You have to think in terms of opportunity cost for it to make sense.

If those nuclear bombs were dropped on Manchester and Leeds perhaps you would have a different view on them.

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[Adil_94]

Today was probably the first time i remember not observing the 2 mins of silence. I was at Uni and my lecturer just carried on with the lecture. Dont wear the poppy but if u wanna wear it go for it.

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[Robert]

Every year we have this poppy debate and the bigger discussion about how our political and business elite always drag us into costly wars gets sidetracked.

Why is war a first resort and not a last resort ?

I think it is always the last resort - the ultimate failure of communication. Here's a Pink Floyd lyric....


It was just before dawn
One miserable morning in black 'forty four.
When the forward commander
Was told to sit tight
When he asked that his men be withdrawn.
And the Generals gave thanks
As the other ranks held back
The enemy tanks for a while.
And the Anzio bridgehead
Was held for the price
Of a few hundred ordinary lives.

And kind old King George
Sent Mother a note
When he heard that father was gone.
It was, I recall,
In the form of a scroll,
With gold leaf adorned,
And I found it one day
In a drawer of old photographs, hidden away.
And my eyes still grow damp to remember
His Majesty signed
With his own rubber stamp.

It was dark all around.
There was frost in the ground
When the tigers broke free.
And no one survived
From the Royal Fusiliers Company Z.
They were all left behind,
Most of them dead,
The rest of them dying.
And that's how the High Command
Took my daddy from me.

 

[Robert]

If those nuclear bombs were dropped on Manchester and Leeds perhaps you would have a different view on them.

One more year of war in Europe, and that would have happened.

Then Britain would have surrendered, then the USSR, and Nazi Germany would have ruled Europe.

 

[Adil_94]

One more year of war in Europe, and that would have happened.

Then Britain would have surrendered, then the USSR, and Nazi Germany would have ruled Europe.

It wouldnt have been justified of course. And how do u think USSR and Germany would have managed to rule europe together. It would be a battle to death between the two. The Soviets were already destroying the Germans pushing them back.

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[Robert]

It wouldnt have been justified of course. And how do u think USSR and Germany would have managed to rule europe together. It would be a battle to death between the two. The Soviets were already destroying the Germans pushing them back.

Not with Moscow nuked off the map they wouldn't have. Because that is the scenario I was describing. The Germans would have had a nuke by 1946, and they had a working ballistic missile in 1944.

But that is hypothesis. The following is fact: the two nuclear strikes on Japan stopped the war. That avoided the working to death of millions of Chinese and Korean slaves. That avoided the invasion of the Japanese mainland, with a predicted million civilian casualties.

 

[s28]

This is well worth a read. So much for Free Speech. Former Special Forces guy being prevented from speaking out against the war mongering celebrated by the red poppy fascism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-white-poppy-wreath-to-cenotaph-9833246.html

 

[Adil_94]

Not with Moscow nuked off the map they wouldn't have. Because that is the scenario I was describing. The Germans would have had a nuke by 1946, and they had a working ballistic missile in 1944.

But that is hypothesis. The following is fact: the two nuclear strikes on Japan stopped the war. That avoided the working to death of millions of Chinese and Korean slaves. That avoided the invasion of the Japanese mainland, with a predicted million civilian casualties.

What are your views on the military campaigns Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you think they were justified.


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[Robert]

What are your views on the military campaigns Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you think they were justified.

Afghanistan - this is a complex question. First was the US-led invasion in the wake of 9/11. The objective was to dismantle al-Qaeda by removal of the Taleban from power. That was not thought through by Bush who went with his gut. Clinton would have come up with a more subtle solution, and maybe even interdicted the 9/11 plot before it happened, but it was after his watch finished.

Broadly speaking, I agreed with the ISAF mission to stabilise Afghanistan which began in 2003.


Iraq - absolutely no way, a political and humanitarian disaster from start to finish. I am dismayed by Blair's folly at joining Bush's neo-imperialist adventurism. Instead, I would have continued with the Clinton doctrine of containment of Saddam, who would never have allowed Daesh to flourish in his nation.

 

[Robert]

This is well worth a read. So much for Free Speech. Former Special Forces guy being prevented from speaking out against the war mongering celebrated by the red poppy fascism

That's a distortion of the article. Trooper Griffin (ret.) is prevented from discussing his SAS service in public, and rightly so in my view. Signatories to the Official Secrets Act cannot lawfully say certain things in public. He has not been prevented from speaking out against "war mongering". He is free to do that. He is free to hold his white poppy ceremony at the Cenotaph.

I deplore your implication that by wearing a red poppy I am celebrating war. I wear it to express gratitude to the fallen for giving me a nice safe life, and to raise money to help support those who have been damaged by war.

 

[s28]

You either can't read or have poor comprehension skills. I said 'war mongering celebrated by red poppy fascism'.

Not sure why you would get defensive about that.

 

[Robert]

You either can't read or have poor comprehension skills. I said 'war mongering celebrated by red poppy fascism'.

Not sure why you would get defensive about that.

Well, it follows that red poppy fascism is made up of individual red poppy fascists, who warmonger on 11/11.

Neat evasion of my first comment in #128.

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I no longer wear the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/poppy?src=hash">#poppy</a> b/c grief over our war dead has become a hollow procession to endorse our modern wars.<a href="https://t.co/9xQb31pxYy">https://t.co/9xQb31pxYy</a></p>— Harry Leslie Smith (@Harryslaststand) <a href="https://twitter.com/Harryslaststand/status/793443280566427649">1 November 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">England last played on Armistice Day 11/11/87. WW1 veterans alive. More from WW2. No poppies. 2016: manufactured row <a href="https://t.co/ZAlxoEoXwQ">pic.twitter.com/ZAlxoEoXwQ</a></p>— Kevin Maguire (@Kevin_Maguire) <a href="https://twitter.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/794082649660919808">3 November 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Thivagar]

People would go nuts if some European guy moving to India or Pakistan and refuses to wear a flag pin of India or Pakistan.

FFS wear for sake of respect. If it wasn't for WW2, you wouldn't be in countries that you are residing in which is probably 100 times better than where ever you have originated from.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

People would go nuts if some European guy moving to India or Pakistan and refuses to wear a flag pin of India or Pakistan.

FFS wear for sake of respect. If it wasn't for WW2, you wouldn't be in countries that you are residing in which is probably 100 times better than where ever you have originated from.

Why? Since when has it become expected that every foreigner wear the national flag or pin of the country they move to? Do Indians or Pakistanis wear them as a rule.

Let me repeat, I don't wear a poppy and never have done, neither have many of my English friends. You don't like it, tough luck.

 

[Robert]

People would go nuts if some European guy moving to India or Pakistan and refuses to wear a flag pin of India or Pakistan.

FFS wear for sake of respect. If it wasn't for WW2, you wouldn't be in countries that you are residing in which is probably 100 times better than where ever you have originated from.

They fought for the right of [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] to have the right to choose whether to wear a poppy or not.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They fought for the right of [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] to have the right to choose whether to wear a poppy or not.

Thivagar is only displaying the usual immigrant psyche. I would probably agree with him if I was an immigrant, but as I'm not, I don't have any of the apologetic nature of those who leave their shores for a new home. I think like a Brit and don't wish to be treated as any different to any of my white Brit associates. If I feel like wearing white socks, a safety pin through my lip or a poppy in my lapel, then I will. If I don't....well you know where you can stick it sunshine.

(In your own lapel)

 

[James]

I think it should be personal choice, to wear or not wear, for footballers and for everyone else too. There should not be judgment either way based on that personal choice.

 

[shaz619]

I think it should be personal choice, to wear or not wear, for footballers and for everyone else too. There should not be judgment either way based on that personal choice.

True, everyone has their reasons for wearing or not wearing one. I don't personally given that it doesn't entirely represent paying respect to the victims of the World Wars in this day and age but I pay my respects by observing the 1 minute silence privately.

 

[The_KING]

No

 

[Thivagar]

They fought for the right of [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] to have the right to choose whether to wear a poppy or not.

Ya but he thinks he is special because he was born in England. But his attitude indicates that he is more sub continental than an average subcontinent citizen. He is always takes a dig at India at any cost, brings India out of nowhere when there is a negative topic that some how brushes Pakistan or Islam. You can't get anymore Brown than that.

 

[Thivagar]

Thivagar is only displaying the usual immigrant psyche. I would probably agree with him if I was an immigrant, but as I'm not, I don't have any of the apologetic nature of those who leave their shores for a new home. I think like a Brit and don't wish to be treated as any different to any of my white Brit associates. If I feel like wearing white socks, a safety pin through my lip or a poppy in my lapel, then I will. If I don't....well you know where you can stick it sunshine.

(In your own lapel)

You don't think like a Brit, I believe you behave more like a sub continent person, in fact you probably
out-Brown them. Again it is just my opinion. Unless you are fresh of the boat, you are going to think like a Brit. There is no such thing as "thinking like a Brit". Either you are progressive or you are not. We have many posters here who live in sub continent who are far more progressive than an average person living in the west.

Whether you believe it or not, your parents have been granted the permission to start a new life in a country by the law & government of the land. You should be grateful for the opportunity. No one is asking you to wave the British flag around, but people expect you to respect their history and that is the right thing to do.

I love you too.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You don't think like a Brit, I believe you behave more like a sub continent person, in fact you probably
out-Brown them. Again it is just my opinion. Unless you are fresh of the boat, you are going to think like a Brit. There is no such thing as "thinking like a Brit". Either you are progressive or you are not. We have many posters here who live in sub continent who are far more progressive than an average person living in the west.

Whether you believe it or not, your parents have been granted the permission to start a new life in a country by the law & government of the land. You should be grateful for the opportunity. No one is asking you to wave the British flag around, but people expect you to respect their history and that is the right thing to do.

I love you too.

This sort of rubbish shows the inferiority complex of some wannabe-seen-as progressive immigrant. Why do you consider me being ignorant as a brown characteristic? If you understood my point correctly you would have realised you can get ignorant morons in any colour, if you'd lived here among the salt of the earth you'd know that.

I started off life in a white council estate, when you've lived that life as a child then come back and talk. Then perhaps you'd appreciate when I slap down Shining Indians EDL style, it's for their own good. This is the era of Trump and Brexit where folk need to express their rage and fear. Why should anyone in today's world expect shelter from it?

 

[aloo paratha]

Doesn't matter, you don't need a paper pin to show your remembrance. You can support but still not wear one, better than just wearing it for show.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

People would go nuts if some European guy moving to India or Pakistan and refuses to wear a flag pin of India or Pakistan.

FFS wear for sake of respect. If it wasn't for WW2, you wouldn't be in countries that you are residing in which is probably 100 times better than where ever you have originated from.

Not sure the red poppy is only indicative of ww2, i think it goes back to the opium wars with China

In my opinion poppy fascism is a way of demonstrasting how much britain has and continues to save the world with the sacrifice of their royal forces and navy in maintaining world peace
I do agree with Thivagar here, if it hadnt been for the privlledge of my parents to reside in the uk, i would probably be eating from government handouts back in the homeland which would come from imf and foriegn loans

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wearing a poppy isn't really a choice as far as the media perception is concerned. Every presenter on TV, whether football Match of the Day or the evening news is dutifully wearing the poppy like their life depends on it. If you are talking about their livelihood I suppose it does. Imagine the fuss if one of them declined to wear it in front of the watching nation, the tabloids would end their career overnight.