Does Cheteshwar Pujara deserve a share of the blame for the 3rd Test draw?

[Varun]

Pretty much batted like a corpse with pads for 500 balls worth.

If you have 500 balls to anybody else in the team where they didn't get dismissed, they would have scored a triple century in 400 - meaning an early declaration with a more imposing trail for Australia and with more overs to spare.

 

[London_Lahori]

Didn't watch much of his innings, on the face of it, it really was a pedestrian effort.

Though that could have been down to giving credit to Aussie bowlers, not too sure.

 

[MMHS]

Aussies actually earned the draw; but yes, I did mention that after lunch, at 500/6, IND should have targeted to get all-out for 575 before tea.

Don't think CP was instructed as such, therefore not his fault. I think, had it been 2-0 either side, things would have been different, but here KK (Kumble/Kohli) thought that waiting for Dharmashala is the better idea. I am sure, Smith is also thought so - scored considerably slowly in day 2 to occupy crease longer & tried to restrict India's scoring after lunch on Day 4, which normally Aussies don't do.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if not for Pujara's measured knock, Aus could have taken a lead and we would have worried a bit more.

This pitch was really tough and Marsh and Handscomb applied superbly. Maybe if one of them had got out earlier, we may have got them all out but even that is doubful.

I watched most of today's play and I can't really blame our bowlers for today's efforts too. They were tight and really trying hard.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

We should have used the newish ball to attack with spin earlier.

Once the ball got soft on this pitch, it really got hard.

 

[Bilal7]

Reminds me of Taufeeq Umar's double against Sri Lanka, years ago which meant that Pakistan didn't have enough time to chase down a small fourth innings total.

You really shouldn't be batted at a SR of 38 after facing hundreds of deliveries unless it comes in the midst of an epic rescue act. I was following Puja's innings yesterday and thought it was weird that he batted so slowly but didn't say anything because I thought Ashwin and Jadeja wouldn't need more than three sessions to bowl the Aussies out.

He does deserve part of the blame but not as much as the spinners or the captain himself.

 

[troodon]

Yes he does. There was no reason to play out so many dots even after taking India close to Aus total.

I can understand him playing with a dead bat initially. But when Aus bowling became deflated, he should have attacked more.

Pujara is the reason why we were in a position to win the match too. He is also the reason for drawing.

This is a total flat wicket. Even in Day-5, the bounce was true for the most part.

 

[JaDed]

Nope, I don't remember Aussies playing like this ,they have really fought hard,we had a whole day to clean them out.

The Aus of an year ago would had lost this hands down trying to play with their approach.

Ashwin is a worry for us,he either needs rest or some health issue,he has bowled a lot of overs this season and we ve had a very long season as well.

 

[troodon]

Nope, I don't remember Aussies playing like this ,they have really fought hard,we had a whole day to clean them out.

The Aus of an year ago would had lost this hands down trying to play with their approach.

Ashwin is a worry for us,he either needs rest or some health issue,he has bowled a lot of overs this season and we ve had a very long season as well.

Play Kuldeep next game. India should play all 3 spinners.

 

[roshanrocks]

I would blame Kohli, useless fellow cannot play 500 balls the whole series, let alone one innings.

Also I would blame the bowlers for being ineffective and not being able to take 10 wickets.

i would also blame the Aussie batsmen for fighting hard for a draw. Why cant they collapse and give india victory.

And who made the damn pitch, he should also be blamed.

And let us not forget Rahul gandhi. Useless guy, I am sure he did something. He is the reason for all problems in India.I would also blame BCCI and IPL. Am sure they had a hand in this as well.

 

[Ab Fan]

No. That's rubbish. Bowlers failed to get Aussies all out.They deserve blame although Aussies batted well too.

And there were very high chances that if Pujara played attacking cricket he might have got out and a collapse could have happened with hardly any major lead.

That is not how you play test cricket and that too for someone who isn't a naturally aggressive batsmen.

Pujara's inning was easily the best of the series followed by Smith's inning.

 

[pillionrider]

Nope, I don't remember Aussies playing like this ,they have really fought hard,we had a whole day to clean them out.

The Aus of an year ago would had lost this hands down trying to play with their approach.

Pretty much this.

I think we as Indian fans are being a little greedy if we blame Pujara. I did feel briefly similar thoughts as the OP towards the end today. But that's based on what was happening once Marsh got out. If you think back to how you felt yesterday morning you'll realise you're just being a little greedy. Cuz while Pujara was at it, you felt gratitude that he was saving you a loss.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Pretty much this.

I think we as Indian fans are being a little greedy if we blame Pujara. I did feel briefly similar thoughts as the OP towards the end today. But that's based on what was happening once Marsh got out. If you think back to how you felt yesterday morning you'll realise you're just being a little greedy. Cuz while Pujara was at it, you felt gratitude that he was saving you a loss.

Exactly.

The only thing that can be faulted is Pujara and Saha could have been a touch faster towards mid session post lunch but apart from that, we have to be grateful that he saved us when our batsmen threw our wickets away or didn't bat well.

 

[Hitman]

In my opinion, he definitely does.

 

[pillionrider]

The only thing that can be faulted is Pujara and Saha could have been a touch faster towards mid session post lunch but apart from that

Yeah felt the same especially once they deficit had been wiped out. But I think India were (rightfully) confident they could bowl Aus out today. I certainly felt only Smith could hold one end up while we could get the others.

 

[Big Mac]

Beechara Pujara, getting the Misbah treatment where the guy who carried the innings is getting the blame

You can look at this draw in one of two ways:

1) The bowlers are to blame because they couldn't get eight wickets on a fifth day wicket.

2) Any pitch where a lallu panju like Maxwell can score a hundred is not a pitch that will ever produce a result.

Blaming Pujara is madness.

 

[Syed1]

Indians please save some of those wrists for the fourth test

 

[Convict]

I would blame Kohli, useless fellow cannot play 500 balls the whole series, let alone one innings.

Also I would blame the bowlers for being ineffective and not being able to take 10 wickets.

i would also blame the Aussie batsmen for fighting hard for a draw. Why cant they collapse and give india victory.

And who made the damn pitch, he should also be blamed.

And let us not forget Rahul gandhi. Useless guy, I am sure he did something. He is the reason for all problems in India.I would also blame BCCI and IPL. Am sure they had a hand in this as well.

Mitch Marsh has actually scored more runs this series than Kohli. And Marsh didn't play this test.

 

[Monsee]

Indians should lay most of the blame for the draw on Ashwin's shoulders, if world's number 1 bowler and best 'ever' spinner (in Indian fan's words) cannot exploit day 5 pitch, while a darter like Jadeja gets 5 wickets on the same surface than one should raise their hand and say 'I failed!'

Pujara, Kohli, and Kumble deserve rest of the blame for being too defensive after going past the Aussie total...what is the point of declaring even at 9 down, they should have played rest of the time as well to get some other meaningless records under their belt

 

[Monsee]

Indians please save some of those wrists for the fourth test

They have setup themselves for the fall, can't wait for that to happen

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Bradman deserves most of the blame. He's been exposed.

 

[shaz619]

No, he eliminated the possibility of an AUS win; the aussies have earned respect could have been catostrophic to play a bit more freely

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Few months ago some of the fans here were saying that indian bowling has improved and they will put up a much better performance when they go abroad. Our bowling has been exposed in this series. We rely too much on oppositions ability to play spin well. When we go abroad our spinners will become toothless again.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Beechara Pujara, getting the Misbah treatment where the guy who carried the innings is getting the blame

You can look at this draw in one of two ways:

1) The bowlers are to blame because they couldn't get eight wickets on a fifth day wicket.

2) Any pitch where a lallu panju like Maxwell can score a hundred is not a pitch that will ever produce a result.

Blaming Pujara is madness.

Pujara saved this test for India otherwise we would have lost this match also.

 

[Hari Sombar]

Once we had got within 50 runs of the Aus total he should have attacked more. I would expect a batsman to be on at least 250 off 500 balls. He saved us from a possible defeat but also did some damage to chances of winning. Too slow. Simply getting singles off more balls would easily have given him 50 more runs, not much risk needed.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Beechara Pujara, getting the Misbah treatment where the guy who carried the innings is getting the blame

You can look at this draw in one of two ways:

1) The bowlers are to blame because they couldn't get eight wickets on a fifth day wicket.

2) Any pitch where a lallu panju like Maxwell can score a hundred is not a pitch that will ever produce a result.

Blaming Pujara is madness.

Misbah wishes he could play a knock like that.

 

[Big Mac]

Pujara saved this test for India otherwise we would have lost this match also.

Yep. At 320/6 or whatever it was there a chance of India being bowled out without matching Australia's first innings total. The last thing India wanted was to be chasing 250+ in the fourth innings.

Once we had got within 50 runs of the Aus total he should have attacked more. I would expect a batsman to be on at least 250 off 500 balls. He saved us from a possible defeat but also did some damage to chances of winning. Too slow. Simply getting singles off more balls would easily have given him 50 more runs, not much risk needed.

If your bowlers can't take eight wickets on the fifth day, it's not the batsmen that let you down.

 

[dildildalwalla]

Pretty much batted like a corpse with pads for 500 balls worth.

If you have 500 balls to anybody else in the team where they didn't get dismissed, they would have scored a triple century in 400 - meaning an early declaration with a more imposing trail for Australia and with more overs to spare.

The part of the match I watched, he was stuck on the same score for what seemed like half an hour. India only lost one wicket at the other end and Pujara just stood there, not doing anything, no urgency nothing. Then again, I think India were looking to score as much as possible to limt an Australia ncomeback, rathert han push for a win and if that was the message from the team then what could he do?

 

[Syed1]

Pretty much batted like a corpse with pads for 500 balls worth.

If you have 500 balls to anybody else in the team where they didn't get dismissed, they would have scored a triple century in 400 - meaning an early declaration with a more imposing trail for Australia and with more overs to spare.

Didn't watch his innings or the match, but surely if his innings was felt as counterproductive by the captain and management they would have sent a message (or multiple messages) to up the scoring rate.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Few months ago some of the fans here were saying that indian bowling has improved and they will put up a much better performance when they go abroad. Our bowling has been exposed in this series. We rely too much on oppositions ability to play spin well. When we go abroad our spinners will become toothless again.

List the performance of our bowlers in this series:

Umesh - Averaged 50 against Eng. Averages 22-25 in this series. Took 4fer in Pune.
Jaddu - Bowling like a champ towering over all spinners on display. Even better than England series.
Ishant - Same to same.
Shami - Injured.
Ashwin - Its he who has been terribly underwhelming. So I take it that he has been exposed and he is going to perform like this even at home from now on?

There is data and there is interpretation of data.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Thats what happens when you see matches on cricinfo scorecards.
Please see Cummins' spells (recording not highlights) on 3rd day and how Pujara played while he took 3 big wickets.

Pujara vs Cummins 34 off 50
Rest vs Cummins 35 off 90 4 wickets

On the 4th day he slowed down because the situation demanded to be slowed down. Both Saha and Puji's plan was to play slow and get arund 60 runs lead and then attack.

Lastly, If not for Pujara I am pretty sure Aussies would have taken 70-80 run lead in 1st innings and would have won the match eventually.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Pretty much batted like a corpse with pads for 500 balls worth.

If you have 500 balls to anybody else in the team where they didn't get dismissed, they would have scored a triple century in 400 - meaning an early declaration with a more imposing trail for Australia and with more overs to spare.

Not at all.

In the first place, if he hadn't batted like that he wouldn't have lasted 500 balls. In the second place, India was almost dismissed and still had to bat again, so clearly the runs were relevant. And in fact, when he accelerated he got out.

If India had ended 150 runs ahead but no time to get wickets you might have had a point, but as it stands we didn't have enough runs, so how can you fault his decision to maximize the number of runs we could get?

I personally agree he started attacking maybe 10 overs too late, but that's a minor tactical error compared to an amazing individual performance.

 

[kingusama92]

To be fair, most foreign teams fold in India with the position AUS were in.

The Aussies managed well under duress on a Day 5 pitch.

 

[Square Drive]

Pujara was top class.

Bowlers, in particular the useless Bradman, are to be blamed.

 

[Napa]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if not for Pujara's measured knock, Aus could have taken a lead and we would have worried a bit more.

This pitch was really tough and Marsh and Handscomb applied superbly. Maybe if one of them had got out earlier, we may have got them all out but even that is doubful.

I watched most of today's play and I can't really blame our bowlers for today's efforts too. They were tight and really trying hard.

Exactly! Actually when Saha came in to bat, we were looking at conceding about a 100 run lead to be followed by batting last. Kohli and Rahane failing put enormous pressure on the other batsmen and only Pujara and Saha bailed India out.

 

[Slog]

No. If any one especially Australia survives for last 4 sessions of a test match in India they deserve credit

But man did he put out a workshop of boring batting. Longest innings ever from an Indian and they have Gavaskar

 

[ayemgilani86]

Exactly! Actually when Saha came in to bat, we were looking at conceding about a 100 run lead to be followed by batting last. Kohli and Rahane failing put enormous pressure on the other batsmen and only Pujara and Saha bailed India out.

classic scenario of modern day armchair critics, a guy who scores an under pressure double hundred gets criticized over the guys who got out early. Thats why Umar Akmal and Afridi are our heroes

 

[Hasan123]

No he shouldn't be blamed. I prefer to give Australia credit for there resilience with the bat and for Ashwin to get some of the blame for poor bowling.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Pujara played a match saving inning but once India had a lead, he should have played a little faster. Overall, I won't blame him.

Aussies earned that draw. Most of the other teams would have been dismissed. Another thing it shows is that India is completely reliant on Ashwin and Jadeja which is not a good thing for overseas tours.

 

[Hari Sombar]

Yep. At 320/6 or whatever it was there a chance of India being bowled out without matching Australia's first innings total. The last thing India wanted was to be chasing 250+ in the fourth innings.



If your bowlers can't take eight wickets on the fifth day, it's not the batsmen that let you down.

Yes I agree, the bowlers are mainly at fault. But Pujara could have given us a better chance.

 

[Rayyman]

Pujara is ranked #2 now.

Imo he's really #6 behind Fab 4 and Azhar.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Thats what happens when you see matches on cricinfo scorecards.
Please see Cummins' spells (recording not highlights) on 3rd day and how Pujara played while he took 3 big wickets.

Pujara vs Cummins 34 off 50
Rest vs Cummins 35 off 90 4 wickets

On the 4th day he slowed down because the situation demanded to be slowed down. Both Saha and Puji's plan was to play slow and get arund 60 runs lead and then attack.

Lastly, If not for Pujara I am pretty sure Aussies would have taken 70-80 run lead in 1st innings and would have won the match eventually.

btw Dravid said that there is no problem in Pujara's technique after the overseas series (when Pujara was captain of India A and Dravid the coach) and he couldnt convert his starts. May be a confidence thing ... Won't be surprised if Puji comes back in next overseas series'. If that happens than it will be dangerous for other teams as he is an actual match winner/saver and not a dead rubber or easy runs specialist.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Pujara is ranked #2 now.

Imo he's really #6 behind Fab 4 and Azhar.

He is not just but way ahead of Kohli in tests. What has Kohli done in his test career ? Any special match winning/saving knock n tough conditions? Even if the cricinfo stat lovers are dismissing his recent 200 but will they also dismiss his 92 in third innings of 2nd test when the conditions were tough to bat and India actually won. Has Kohli played any such match winning knock in his entire test career? Pujara has played quite a few.

 

[Rayyman]

He is not just but way ahead of Kohli in tests. What has Kohli done in his test career ? Any special match winning/saving knock n tough conditions? Even if the cricinfo stat lovers are dismissing his recent 200 but will they also dismiss his 92 in third innings of 2nd test when the conditions were tough to bat and India actually won. Has Kohli played any such match winning knock in his entire test career? Pujara has played quite a few.

Kohli>Pujara
Kohli: 16 100s SR 56 HS 235 Pujara: 11 100s SR 48 HS 206
Kohli>Pujara

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is the Tendulkar of this generation and Pujara is the Dravid. Pakistani fans spent years peddling the myth that Dravid was a better Test batsman than Tendulkar simply because of their jealousy with the Little Master. Now, history is simply repeating itself. Pujara is a terrific Test batsman, but he is not better than Kohli and never will be, simply because he does not have the dynamism of Kohli and cannot dominate the opposition.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Kohli>Pujara
Kohli: 16 100s SR 56 HS 235 Pujara: 11 100s SR 48 HS 206
Kohli>Pujara

haha how conveniently you ignored the main criteria avgs Pujra 52 Kohli 49.5

anyways for me these things dont matter much as I have followed careers of both since 2011 and the actual match situations by watching. Puji far ahead of Kohli and score runs when it mattered which resulted in wins/draws unlike Kohli who scored in dead rubbers or comparatively easy runs and has no match winning/saving innings of significance. Sub continent people are obsessed with overseas performances and hopefully in next tour Puji performs there too. Personally for me a team win comes first and a match winning innings in Asia > match losing/dead rubber innings overseas.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Kohli is the Tendulkar of this generation and Pujara is the Dravid. Pakistani fans spent years peddling the myth that Dravid was a better Test batsman than Tendulkar simply because of their jealousy with the Little Master. Now, history is simply repeating itself. Pujara is a terrific Test batsman, but he is not better than Kohli and never will be, simply because he does not have the dynamism of Kohli and cannot dominate the opposition.

You are generalizing too much. Majority of Pak fans rate Kohli higher. It is just me and only a few others mostly those who watched India's test matches who rate Puji higher than Kohli in test cricket.

Also as for me, I admit that Kohli is >>> Puji in lois and already an ATG in odis but I cant be biased and say that Kohli is superior test bat than Puji when Kohli hasnt done anything impactful in tests like he did in odis.. its quite the opposite. Lastly, I am following Pujara's career since 2006 u-19 wc when he was the captain and Kohli's career from 2008 u-19 wc. So i dnt know from where does the Dravid and Sachin comparison came in as both were new in cricket at that time. Also, if you remember than Pujara started his test career before kohli and after his dominating 72 not out in 4th innings vs Aus in 2011 he was called the dominating version of Dravid. Dont know where this dominating thing came from as Pujara was a very dominating test bat when both of them started their test careers.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

You are generalizing too much. Majority of Pak fans rate Kohli higher. It is just me and only a few others mostly those who watched India's test matches who rate Puji higher than Kohli in test cricket.

Also as for me, I admit that Kohli is >>> Puji in lois and already an ATG in odis but I cant be biased and say that Kohli is superior test bat than Puji when Kohli hasnt done anything impactful in tests like he did in odis.. its quite the opposite. Lastly, I am following Pujara's career since 2006 u-19 wc when he was the captain and Kohli's career from 2008 u-19 wc. So i dnt know from where does the Dravid and Sachin comparison came in as both were new in cricket at that time. Also, if you remember than Pujara started his test career before kohli and after his dominating 72 not out in 4th innings vs Aus in 2011 he was called the dominating version of Dravid. Dont know where this dominating thing came from as Pujara was a very dominating test bat when both of them started their test careers.

sorry not captain i mean the highest run scorer in 2006 u-19 wc and kohli the 2008 u-19 wc captain. *

 

[Sachin136]

You are generalizing too much. Majority of Pak fans rate Kohli higher. It is just me and only a few others mostly those who watched India's test matches who rate Puji higher than Kohli in test cricket.

Also as for me, I admit that Kohli is >>> Puji in lois and already an ATG in odis but I cant be biased and say that Kohli is superior test bat than Puji when Kohli hasnt done anything impactful in tests like he did in odis.. its quite the opposite. Lastly, I am following Pujara's career since 2006 u-19 wc when he was the captain and Kohli's career from 2008 u-19 wc. So i dnt know from where does the Dravid and Sachin comparison came in as both were new in cricket at that time. Also, if you remember than Pujara started his test career before kohli and after his dominating 72 not out in 4th innings vs Aus in 2011 he was called the dominating version of Dravid. Dont know where this dominating thing came from as Pujara was a very dominating test bat when both of them started their test careers.

Performing in every country in the world except England is not impactful, but Pujara just scoring at home is?

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Performing in every country in the world except England is not impactful, but Pujara just scoring at home is?

Pujara's match winning 145 in SL when it was very tough to bat and others failed is more impactful than Kohli's hundreds in Australia . For me actual conditions matter more than country's name. I hope this answers

 

[Sadevdesai]

Very easy to find someone to blame AFTER the match is over ... isn't it ??? Why not blame the bowlers, who could not bowl out the Australians ..... hmmmmm ???

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Pujara saved this match for India. Without him and Saha India would've lost the match. The bowling was bad for India, Bradman has been completely exposed

 

[bleaf27]

Pretty much batted like a corpse with pads for 500 balls worth.

If you have 500 balls to anybody else in the team where they didn't get dismissed, they would have scored a triple century in 400 - meaning an early declaration with a more imposing trail for Australia and with more overs to spare.

His innings anchored the first Indian innings - the lead that India had was the result of his sedentary knock - With no lead or a bare lead of 10 odd runs and aus would score around 200 and make us bat a session or two...
Pujara ensured that India can't lose the test - It's the determined batting of the aussies and no other bowler except Jadeja coming to the party that it ended in a draw

 

[Napa]

Pretty much batted like a corpse with pads for 500 balls worth.

Not only batted like a corpse but did nothing with the ball either. Should have bowled ten overs and at least picked up five wickets.

Useless fellow, hope he never plays for India again.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Kohli is the Tendulkar of this generation and Pujara is the Dravid. Pakistani fans spent years peddling the myth that Dravid was a better Test batsman than Tendulkar simply because of their jealousy with the Little Master. Now, history is simply repeating itself. Pujara is a terrific Test batsman, but he is not better than Kohli and never will be, simply because he does not have the dynamism of Kohli and cannot dominate the opposition.

Why did not Pakistani fans feel the same jealousy from Dravid who was a superior bat to any Pakistani bat in tests? May be it has something to do with the fact that Dravid averaged +10 with more than twice the 100s in 3 less number of matches than Tendulkar against Pakistan?

Nice attempt BTW to make this into another India vs Pakistan thread.

 

[Mamoon]

Why did not Pakistani fans feel the same jealousy from Dravid who was a superior bat to any Pakistani bat in tests? May be it has something to do with the fact that Dravid averaged +10 with more than twice the 100s in 3 less number of matches than Tendulkar against Pakistan?

Nice attempt BTW to make this into another India vs Pakistan thread.

That is because Tendulkar was hailed by as a cricketing god by the Indians, and his status was 10x higher than any Pakistani batsman ever. Dravid is an ATG too, but he didn't enjoy the same reputation. These days, a lot of Pakistani fans are bitter because Kohli has single-handedly owned Pakistan so many times it is not even funny. We have no answer to him.

 

[The_Odd_One]

That is because Tendulkar was hailed by as a cricketing god by the Indians, and his status was 10x higher than any Pakistani batsman ever. Dravid is an ATG too, but he didn't enjoy the same reputation. These days, a lot of Pakistani fans are bitter because Kohli has single-handedly owned Pakistan so many times it is not even funny. We have no answer to him.

It might be partially true but some Pakistani fans did not rate Tendulkar as high for some valid reasons.

First of all, fans who grew up in the 90s, watched India beaten by Pakistan on most occasions. Even in 1996 and 1999 World Cups, India did not win against Pakistan due to Tendulkar. His scores were I think 38 and 45. In 2003, Tendulkar really played an outstanding inning. In 2011, he was dropped like 4 times and that was his worst inning against Pakistan in a world cup quality wise. Then, there are memories of Tendulkar getting cleaned up on the first ball by Akhtar, Tendulkar getting run out and the crowd stopping the game, etc.

Post 2000 it was always Sehwag, Dravid, and Dhoni who won India matches against Pakistan. Right now it is Kohli who has single-handedly won several matches against Pakistan so he gets more respect from Pakistani fans. I will give you the example of Allan Donald and Shaun Pollock. Even though, they have been undisputed ATGs, they do not get the same respect from Aussie fans because they failed against Australia, even though both averaged under 22 against all teams (Donald averages in 20.xx against all teams excluding Australia). Tendulkar averages 37 in Pakistan in ODIs and 40 in tests.