Does India’s recent ICC tournament record prove that they are the least talented Cricketing nation?

[marlonbrowndo]

Just to clarify, this thread is not meant to be insulting or kick the Indian fans when they are down. It is simply something I have been thinking about for more than a year now.

The fact is that no board in Cricket history has been as powerful as India’s has over the last decade or so. The sheer amount of resources at their disposal compared to any other team let alone smaller boards, is absurd. The size of the fan base and the numbers that the Indian team generates can not be matched by any team in the world.

And yet, this Indian team has not been able to replicate even 1/5th of the success of the great Australian team or the great West Indies team. Despite their boards not having the relative resources that the BBCI currently have. It is truly laughable how pathetic the Indian Cricket team have been relative to the support and resources at their disposal.

Since 2013, India have failed to win a single one of the 7 ICC tournaments that they have taken part in. (I am including the 2021 World T20 as well even though they officially have not been eliminated). Things like bad luck, fatigue, captaincy etc can be used to excuse 1 or 2 inadequate tournament performances but not 7. A true champion side does not make excuses. They win tournaments. Furthermore, things like captaincy and team selection are part of strategy which is part of the sport. If those are the reasons India have failed to win a tournament, then they are still errors on their part. Big tournaments will always be the benchmark for a teams performance in Limited Overs Cricket and it is telling that India have not won a single one.

When all the resources are present, the issue simply boils down to a lack of raw talent.

Imagine if teams like New Zealand, West Indies, or Sri Lanka had the funds and support that the Indian team has. They would have won multiple ICC trophies considering they all have won at least 1 in the time frame. I have said this a lot recently, but if I were an Indian fan I would be disgusted with how the last decade or so has turned out for my team.

 

[Ab Fan]

The success of a country is determined by their performance as a test cricket nation largely.

Indian team currently has multiple test series wins in Australia and at worst will have a test series draw in England with a good chance of test series win in England too.

They have also been among the top of the test ranking for five continuous years and won pretty much everything at home or in subcontinent.

The ICC tournaments failures definitely doesn't put them in the league of great Australian team or West Indies team of 70s but it definitely makes them a great test team without any question.

All this talk of being least talented is ridiculous when you see the amount of success they have achieved in the format where this talent matters more than anywhere else.

Virat Kohli and his men have mastered test cricket and in pretty much all conditions except swing conditions where they are still the second best after the New Zealanders and ahead of England.

 

[street cricketer]

Pakistani fans are used to overreacting heavily after their victories and defeats.

Now you guys are overreacting after our defeats!

 

[marlonbrowndo]

The success of a country is determined by their performance as a test cricket nation largely.

Indian team currently has multiple test series wins in Australia and at worst will have a test series draw in England with a good chance of test series win in England too.

They have also been among the top of the test ranking for five continuous years and won pretty much everything at home or in subcontinent.

The ICC tournaments failures definitely doesn't put them in the league of great Australian team or West Indies team of 70s but it definitely makes them a great test team without any question.

All this talk of being least talented is ridiculous when you see the amount of success they have achieved in the format where this talent matters more than anywhere else.

Virat Kohli and his men have mastered test cricket and in pretty much all conditions except swing conditions where they are still the second best after the New Zealanders and ahead of England.

Test Cricket being more challenging and a bigger test of skill than LOIs especially in the modern day is simply a myth. The fact is that the demand for limited overs Cricket is higher than Test Cricket and the gap will continue to widen. Cricket would die without LOIs but the same can not be said about Test Cricket.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Pakistani fans are used to overreacting heavily after their victories and defeats.

Now you guys are overreacting after our defeats f f s...

This has nothing to do with one specific defeat. It is about the last few years. I could have made this thread after the 2019 World Cup semi final and it would still be appropriate.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I harbor no hatred towards the Indian Cricket team and am in fact upset at what Kohli must be going through after this defeat. And I sympathize with their fans.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Do not agree. They are a super talented team and have been no 1 in all formats in the last decade, for many years, and have won games on the bounce all over the world. They have been the team to beat for everyone - home and away. It's not a fluke.

They have a tournament jinx but reaching semi finals and final consistently is mark of an excellent team. They just haven't been able to get over the line.

The extremely talented Pakistan team of 93-2005 couldn't win a tournament either - it included Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Anwar, Inzimam, Yousuf, Younis, Saqlain etc. You won't call it any less talented than any other team ever just because they didn't win tournaments. You could say they under achieved in big tournaments.

This T20 tournament hasn't gone well for them - much like 2003 tournament didn't go well for Pakistan.

One thing I will acknowledge - there is perhaps a change of guard taking place now. Inevitable. Let's see what Dravid sends up the ranks and how quickly they bounce back to the top, if at all.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Do not agree. They are a super talented team and have been no 1 in all formats in the last decade, for many years, and have won games on the bounce all over the world. They have been the team to beat for everyone - home and away. It's not a fluke.

They have a tournament jinx but reaching semi finals and final consistently is mark of an excellent team. They just haven't been able to get over the line.

The extremely talented Pakistan team of 93-2005 couldn't win a tournament either - it included Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Anwar, Inzimam, Yousuf, Younis, Saqlain etc. You won't call it any less talented than any other team ever just because they didn't win tournaments. You could say they under achieved in big tournaments.

This T20 tournament hasn't gone well for them - much like 2003 tournament didn't go well for Pakistan.

One thing I will acknowledge - there is perhaps a change of guard taking place now. Inevitable. Let's see what Dravid sends up the ranks and how quickly they bounce back to the top, if at all.

The Pakistani team of the mid to late 90s was overrated and riddled with all sorts of non cricket related problems. Again, they also did not nearly have the relative resources that Indian Cricket currently does. That is the whole point

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I am not denying India’s successes over the last few years. Of course they have still been a very successful team but they have severely underachieved given the resources at their disposal. That largely comes down to talent

 

[street cricketer]

This has nothing to do with one specific defeat. It is about the last few years. I could have made this thread after the 2019 World Cup semi final and it would still be appropriate.

You would have a point if we were struggling in all formats. India is still the best team in test cricket and it's only in LOI cricket, India is struggling to win titles.

It just so has happened that after a serial winner like Dhoni, we have been under someone who is just not a good captain at all but both the power he wields over Indian cricket and his ego refuses to let him understand this and give way for a better captain. In any other team or if this was any other player, he would have been sacked as a captain long back but because he's Kohli, he will still lead us in the 2023 WC and get knocked out there as well. There's a reason RCB has never won a single title in the entire IPL history.

Some guys are just not made for captaincy role, Tendulkar understood this quickly and he gave way for Ganguly who transformed our side. Kohli's ego is more massive than Tendulkar's and it's why he still thinks he cam win a title for India when he has failed to do so for not just India but also RCB in the last decade or so. The next generation of Indian team needs a new captain who is tactically very strong like Dhoni was and understands the nuances of LOI cricket unlike a highly reactive captain like Kohli.

 

[street cricketer]

Finally, yes it's disappointing that India has failed to win an ICC title under Kohli. Who doesn't want to win more titles.

But as a huge test cricket fanatic, if you asked me if your team would rather win the world cup not win a test series ever in Australia or England in the last decade, I would gladly take the two consecutive series wins in Australia and a potential series win in England instead of all the ICC titles in the past decade - of which the ODI WC only really comes close in importance in my book.

 

[Ahmed216]

Talent ka pata nahi but they're definitely the biggest chokers

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

The Pakistani team of the mid to late 90s was overrated and riddled with all sorts of non cricket related problems. Again, they also did not nearly have the relative resources that Indian Cricket currently does. That is the whole point

Don't agree. Tournament wins are not the only benchmark.

You see countries with no shortage of money + talent in Football - such as Italy/Spain/France/Germany/Portugal and to an extent Brazil/Argentina - not win World Cup/Euros/Copa America for decades - with legends in their ranks. Doesn't mean they are not talented. England didn't win it with the golden generation of Beckham, Scholes, Lampard, Gerard, Rio in their ranks - one of the most talented line ups who performed day in and day out at home and in Europe.

This is a short few years run for India. Sometimes unlucky, some times took too much pressure and sometimes, the opposition had its day. Happens.

 

[Robert]

No. They are just a bit flat at the moment. They have had a couple of bad games, is all.

 

[Mobashir]

The success of a country is determined by their performance as a test cricket nation largely.

Indian team currently has multiple test series wins in Australia and at worst will have a test series draw in England with a good chance of test series win in England too.

They have also been among the top of the test ranking for five continuous years and won pretty much everything at home or in subcontinent.

The ICC tournaments failures definitely doesn't put them in the league of great Australian team or West Indies team of 70s but it definitely makes them a great test team without any question.

All this talk of being least talented is ridiculous when you see the amount of success they have achieved in the format where this talent matters more than anywhere else.

Virat Kohli and his men have mastered test cricket and in pretty much all conditions except swing conditions where they are still the second best after the New Zealanders and ahead of England.

Congratulations for being better than England's : Rorry Burns, Hameed, Sibley, Crawley, Lawrence, Pope.
Great achievement in itself. Kohli, his men and their fans should be proud of it.

 

[Pakhs]

The success of a country is determined by their performance as a test cricket nation largely.

Indian team currently has multiple test series wins in Australia and at worst will have a test series draw in England with a good chance of test series win in England too.

They have also been among the top of the test ranking for five continuous years and won pretty much everything at home or in subcontinent.

The ICC tournaments failures definitely doesn't put them in the league of great Australian team or West Indies team of 70s but it definitely makes them a great test team without any question.

All this talk of being least talented is ridiculous when you see the amount of success they have achieved in the format where this talent matters more than anywhere else.

Virat Kohli and his men have mastered test cricket and in pretty much all conditions except swing conditions where they are still the second best after the New Zealanders and ahead of England.

The above proves that they are actually a talented side. You might say that they wont away in one country specific country so far in bilateral series not just in test cricket. However what it also proves that they are the biggest chokers of the last decade without question including ICC test championship final where they went with 2 spinners lol.

Their records in bilateral are great in any format but they choke big time in ICC tournaments (more specifically high pressure knock out games). The biggest reason is their captain Virat who sadly for me has not lived up to his talks.

 

[Pakhs]

No. They are just a bit flat at the moment. They have had a couple of bad games, is all.

The problem is you only always need couple of bad games in ICC tournament to get knocked out hence pressure games. This Indian side actually have a lot of talent they just choke.

 

[Gullycricket]

The talent they have is some of the best and you will see now as the Deadwood is removed.

 

[Gullycricket]

Wanted to add. India has been having same stale top 3 for long now. Bowlers like Jadeja, Bhuvneshwar, shami are expired. They need to do complete makeover like England. They definitely have top talents.
Also feel they have been bit unlucky with toss. Certainly they would do far better if they had won toss in atleast one of the games.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

No. They are just a bit flat at the moment. They have had a couple of bad games, is all.

Hundred percent endorsed. They are one of the best cricketing nations on the planet and also a nation on the upward curve in terms of general sports.

An uncalled-for thread in my opinion.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

I think the nature of T20s is such that you can have an off day and you will be blanked by oppositions. India had 2 such days and have no excuses. They were no upto it. I would not say they are any less talented but surely they seem off. As a Pakistani fan, I've experienced this numerous times in the last decade. It's staggering really that they've not been able to achieve the kind of success they could with the kind of personnel at disposal. Massive underachievers.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

I'm afraid India could have a resurgence like England after 2015 world cup but somehow I'm also sure that their superstars are difficult to dislodge and will continue to hog the limelight.

 

[Last Monetarist]

India's achievements in test cricket outweigh any perceived failures in white ball cricket, I wouldn't exchange their series wins in Australia and England over anything. It's equivalent to how I consider Pakistan's achievements in test cricket under Misbah ul Haq above any white ball victories since the 1992 World Cup.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

To the average viewer, India and Kohli's legacy are determined by how they play in ICC tournaments. And it's pretty terrible so far. Kohli has received far more hateful messages than praise since 2019. Truth is, vast majority of Indian viewers turn up for ICC tournaments and IPL only, tests are an afterthought.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not the least talented but serious questions must be asked about why they completely flop in major ICC events.

I see almost overnight the Indian fans here have become test purists. Remember, that many of them have made comments about the IPL being the pinnacle of cricket, looking forward to extended IPL, potential for Year long IPL etc.

The reality is that the Indian hype machine is centered around One Day and T20 cricket. Thats where the supposed conveyor belt of talent is coming from and thats where they have made no progress in recent times.

If other countries are happy that their players are playing the IPL to get exposure to tough cricket in LOIs yet Indias players aren't able to progress then something is going wrong.

 

[Mamoon]

Nope. The least talented nation is still Pakistan, whether you look at history or the present or even the future.

India have been terribly unlucky in ICC tournaments over the last few years. However, this ongoing debacle is not down to luck. It was down to poor selection and tactics.

 

[Osama Shafeeqe]

Can't really take anything seriously from Mamoon. You are right that it was poor selection and team tactics but you sound like a con man selling a pyramid scheme whenever you try and convince people that Pakistan is a talentless nation and India is somehow god tier without flaws.

 

[Mobashir]

Nope. The least talented nation is still Pakistan, whether you look at history or the present or even the future.

India have been terribly unlucky in ICC tournaments over the last few years. However, this ongoing debacle is not down to luck. It was down to poor selection and tactics.

Sharma
Rahul
Kohli
Pant
Who should not have been there?
Sharma Hideman maybe?

 

[Rajdeep]

It is one of those tournaments where nothing has gone our way. It was as if destiny was conspired for India to fail badly. All tosses lost, every shot went straight to fielder, finding the only fielder in boundary during power play. Its just one of such bad tournament for us along with some objectionable selection. Hope this cruel exit will bring some good result in next 2 world cups in two consecutive years

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It is one of those tournaments where nothing has gone our way. It was as if destiny was conspired for India to fail badly. All tosses lost, every shot went straight to fielder, finding the only fielder in boundary during power play. Its just one of such bad tournament for us along with some objectionable selection. Hope this cruel exit will bring some good result in next 2 world cups in two consecutive years

that's just poor batting.

 

[Smbhayi]

The biggest reason is their captain Virat who sadly for me has not lived up to his talks.

Also his inability to win crucial toss

 

[street cricketer]

Not the least talented but serious questions must be asked about why they completely flop in major ICC events.

I see almost overnight the Indian fans here have become test purists. Remember, that many of them have made comments about the IPL being the pinnacle of cricket, looking forward to extended IPL, potential for Year long IPL etc.

The reality is that the Indian hype machine is centered around One Day and T20 cricket. Thats where the supposed conveyor belt of talent is coming from and thats where they have made no progress in recent times.

If other countries are happy that their players are playing the IPL to get exposure to tough cricket in LOIs yet Indias players aren't able to progress then something is going wrong.

Think most people who understand cricket would place a Test series win in Australia above a T20 world cup. It's not even a debate.

 

[asifp]

Amazing amazing team but they have become chokers in big events.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

Nope. The least talented nation is still Pakistan, whether you look at history or the present or even the future.

India have been terribly unlucky in ICC tournaments over the last few years. However, this ongoing debacle is not down to luck. It was down to poor selection and tactics.

Yeah if england or india loose the match its unlucky. If pakistan loose the match they are talentless. What a clueless person you are.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Think most people who understand cricket would place a Test series win in Australia above a T20 world cup. It's not even a debate.

Try that debate with your board that sacrificed a test match for the IPL to continue.

Why? Because the Indian market loves LOI cricket.

 

[street cricketer]

Try that debate with your board that sacrificed a test match for the IPL to continue.

Why? Because the Indian market loves LOI cricket.

Any board would have discontinued the test series under the circumstances. You're just arguing for the sake of it because the team that left the series represents your enemy country. If you keep the politics out of it and think about it objectively, there's no way that test would've taken place. The only shame was the news was not conveyed earlier causing a lot of discomfort to the fans who travelled.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Any board would have discontinued the test series under the circumstances. You're just arguing for the sake of it because the team that left the series represents your enemy country. If you keep the politics out of it and think about it objectively, there's no way that test would've taken place. The only shame was the news was not conveyed earlier causing a lot of discomfort to the fans who travelled.

I don't consider the Indian team or BCCI as an enemy, they are just human beings doing their job.

Their job is to prioritise Indian cricket at the expense of others and obviously, that will annoy those on the other side.

However, my point is that many fans are deliberately understating the importance of this world cup drubbing and drawing up false equivalences with other formats.

To me it seems obvious that your board and fans have priortised short-form cricket, particularly the IPL at the expense of Test Cricket.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Any board would have discontinued the test series under the circumstances. You're just arguing for the sake of it because the team that left the series represents your enemy country. If you keep the politics out of it and think about it objectively, there's no way that test would've taken place. The only shame was the news was not conveyed earlier causing a lot of discomfort to the fans who travelled.

Nah, that test was discontinued primarily because there was the IPL starting a week later and the BCCI had no choice but to abandon the tour. Any other board would have found a middle way to start the test a couple of days later.

I love the Indian test side, but for what it's worth, the BCCI deserves all the flak that comes its way for that abandonment, and I'm somewhat chuffed that the Indian white ball team has been embarrassed due in part to being fatigued from playing the IPL.

 

[street cricketer]

I don't consider the Indian team or BCCI as an enemy, they are just human beings doing their job.

Their job is to prioritise Indian cricket at the expense of others and obviously, that will annoy those on the other side.

However, my point is that many fans are deliberately understating the importance of this world cup drubbing and drawing up false equivalences with other formats.

To me it seems obvious that your board and fans have priortised short-form cricket, particularly the IPL at the expense of Test Cricket.

They still play the most test cricket after England though. And is very successful in the format. If BCCI prioritised the IPL over Test cricket, India should be struggling in Test cricket when they're arguably the best out there and are coming off series wins in Australia and leading the series in England before it got cancelled.

It's just that Kohli has been a terrible LOI captain and I don't think India's fortunes will change unless he steps down as the captain in LOIs.

 

[Charmander]

Nope. The least talented nation is still Pakistan, whether you look at history or the present or even the future.

India have been terribly unlucky in ICC tournaments over the last few years. However, this ongoing debacle is not down to luck. It was down to poor selection and tactics.

Your obvious bias is disgusting. Pakistan the least talented? I'm not pakistani and even i feel angry at this joke post

 

[street cricketer]

Nah, that test was discontinued primarily because there was the IPL starting a week later and the BCCI had no choice but to abandon the tour. Any other board would have found a middle way to start the test a couple of days later.

I love the Indian test side, but for what it's worth, the BCCI deserves all the flak that comes its way for that abandonment, and I'm somewhat chuffed that the Indian white ball team has been embarrassed due in part to being fatigued from playing the IPL.

Well that was clearly why they headed to the IPL. Without the IPL, they would have likely stayed there and completed the series. But that's the realities of the cricket calendar.

Btw I disagree with you. If the situations were reversed and England were in say a tour of Sri Lanka and their entire coaching staff were wiped out due to covid and unable to be with the team and if their players had been in close contact with a covid postive case, they would've taken the first British Airways flight out of Colombo. Actually they might have escaped the moment there was a covid positive case in their camp, forget about 3-5.

 

[Pakhs]

Think most people who understand cricket would place a Test series win in Australia above a T20 world cup. It's not even a debate.

Not for me, I will not swap any of Pakistan ICC final wins over any test series in any cricket. Bilateral are bilateral for a reason.

Now we have test championship so mostly its about qualifying for the finals anyway.

 

[street cricketer]

Not for me, I will not swap any of Pakistan ICC final wins over any test series in any cricket. Bilateral are bilateral for a reason.

Now we have test championship so mostly its about qualifying for the finals anyway.

Good for you. Think even if England wins the T20 WC, which they most likely will, if you asked them whether you would have the T20 WC or even a drawn Ashes series, I know what their fans would choose.

Every fanbase has its likings but I personally gravitate far more towards Test cricket. Been a long time since I followed the IPL with interest. My home team won the IPL this year but I could bother.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Well that was clearly why they headed to the IPL. Without the IPL, they would have likely stayed there and completed the series. But that's the realities of the cricket calendar.

Btw I disagree with you. If the situations were reversed and England were in say a tour of Sri Lanka and their entire coaching staff were wiped out due to covid and unable to be with the team and if their players had been in close contact with a covid postive case, they would've taken the first British Airways flight out of Colombo. Actually they might have escaped the moment there was a covid positive case in their camp, forget about 3-5.

It's not the cricket calendar to blame, but the BCCI's lax management (read incompetence) of the biosecure bubble for the IPL in May, which is something that's been brushed over.

Incidentally there's a difference between a test series between England and India and a series in Sri Lanka, that's false equivalence. The comparable example would be the Ashes or a series between India and Australia.

The team that actually suffered the most from that abandonment is India because the legacy of Virat Kohli and Ravi Shastri's team is now subjected to an asterisk, as their position as an all-time great test side would have been beyond doubt after they had won the test series in Australia and England. Now that team is likely to break up due to a mix of politics and age-related decline. Abandoning that test was just sheer short-sightedness by the Indian team and the BCCI.

 

[drubwrubnat]

In the bowling department, they are one of the least talented.
Also some posts have mentioned about the fitness levels - i think they rank below average there too.
Fielding is also poor overall - below average.

India is talented in batting, game-tactics & event management.

except in home conditions, they are less talented in all departments.

 

[IMMY69]

Well I've always maintained that a cricket loving population of one billion people should be producing a lot more world class cricketers then it does.

 

[Rana]

Nope. The least talented nation is still Pakistan, whether you look at history or the present or even the future.

India have been terribly unlucky in ICC tournaments over the last few years. However, this ongoing debacle is not down to luck. It was down to poor selection and tactics.

Alright. You’ve identified the problem with this Indian team

Tell us who you would have selected instead? Not a reactionary selection please

 

[street cricketer]

It's not the cricket calendar to blame, but the BCCI's lax management (read incompetence) of the biosecure bubble for the IPL in May, which is something that's been brushed over.

Incidentally there's a difference between a test series between England and India and a series in Sri Lanka, that's false equivalence. The comparable example would be the Ashes or a series between India and Australia.

The team that actually suffered the most from that abandonment is India because the legacy of Virat Kohli and Ravi Shastri's team is now subjected to an asterisk, as their position as an all-time great test side would have been beyond doubt after they had won the test series in Australia and England. Now that team is likely to break up due to a mix of politics and age-related decline. Abandoning that test was just sheer short-sightedness by the Indian team and the BCCI.

I did not include a series with India because England or Australia would likely stay in India despite a covid outbreak within their camp so as not to annoy the BCCI, but that would not make it the right thing though. The right thing definitely was to postpone the game.

Secondly, the BCCI should be criticised for conducting the IPL in the midst of a massive covid outbreak in the country for ethical reasons. I don't agree with the incompetence part as even many football leagues around the world have been affected with covid positive cases despite taking the utmost precautions. The moment people started dying on the streets, the IPL should have been postponed to the UAE, but they continued with fake humanitarian agenda and only stopped when covid broke into the bubble.

I would advise you to listen to the podcast or watch interview of Dobell on the match. He said while the timing of the cancellation was incredibly frustrating, he also said that he talked privately with the leading members of other cricket boards and most admitted that they wouldn't have played either in that situation. Dobell is no BCCI shill.

 

[DHONI183]

I don´t personally think that talent or capability is the problem here but instead the mental toughness of the players, and that is as much of a concern, if not bigger. Excepting the ongoing tournament, they made it semi-final or the final in all the tournaments, starting right from 2014. Now, that wouldn´t have happened had there been a dearth of talent. I mean, explain to me the logic behind a team passing the group or pool phase with flying colours if talent had been the issue. Quite clearly, it seems a mental issue. I mean, when a person sings well at home all alone but can´t get it right in publicly, you don´t question his singing ability, do you? Clearly, it´s the anxiety and stage fright which is the issue with him.

 

[Pakhs]

Good for you. Think even if England wins the T20 WC, which they most likely will, if you asked them whether you would have the T20 WC or even a drawn Ashes series, I know what their fans would choose.

Every fanbase has its likings but I personally gravitate far more towards Test cricket. Been a long time since I followed the IPL with interest. My home team won the IPL this year but I could bother.

IPL is not international cricket and for most fans city / franchise based cricket does not have the same meaning. We are not there yet however if all the league around the world keep getting stronger and International cricket does not happen as often your thoughts may change.

Even then IPL is the richest event in cricketing calendar and the only format its played in is T20s and not test match cricket which is not a financially viable product any more for any cricket board including England who has decided to not only priorities LOI cricket in the last 10 years but also openly encouraged their players to skip test match cricket for IPL. Not only that they have even sacrificed their domestic calendar for big bash and the 100.

 

[Pakhs]

Alright. You’ve identified the problem with this Indian team

Tell us who you would have selected instead? Not a reactionary selection please

They have a poor captain. Dhoni would have won some of these tournaments

 

[Rana]

They have a poor captain. Dhoni would have won some of these tournaments

My point is

India picked their strongest XI. Even if they picked XYZ player who performed in the IPL, they still would struggle to replace the current group of players in the XI due to reputations, especially the batting line up. So I don’t think Mamoon sab has a clue about how this all works.

India picked their best team given their set up and dynamics involved. The tactic of moving Ishan up the order to shield Rohit (and subsequently Kohli) was also a correct move, Ishan just didn’t perform.

 

[Rudi hater]

Nope. The least talented nation is still Pakistan, whether you look at history or the present or even the future.

India have been terribly unlucky in ICC tournaments over the last few years. However, this ongoing debacle is not down to luck. It was down to poor selection and tactics.

Haha nothing surprises me from you as you have one track mind and you only come here to troll. There is no objectivity in your comments therefore, they are quite amusing. Well, ask some of the cricketer and I mean International cricketers who would tell you otherwise when it comes to Pakistan. I guess those cricketers are nothing to Mamoon.

 

[IMMY69]

Haha nothing surprises me from you as you have one track mind and you only come here to troll. There is no objectivity in your comments therefore, they are quite amusing. Well, ask some of the cricketer and I mean International cricketers who would tell you otherwise when it comes to Pakistan. I guess those cricketers are nothing to Mamoon.

Spot on!

Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, Shaheen, Shadab, Imad, Hafeez & Hasan Ali were lauded by the expert pundits prior to this Tournament . Now the likes of Asif Ali and Rauf are also being talked up and rightly so.
That's 10 players just there in a team of 11 players that are held in high regard in the T20 format.

Yet our resident self proclaimed "genius" thinks every victory is a loss or that the opposition made mistakes in selections or strategy. Well list time a checked the game of cricket is all about getting the selections and strategies right, its literally part and parcel of the game. You get those wrong and you more often then not end up losing. India got it wrong in both their games and are out. Nothing to do with luck. They were just pathetic in all facets

 

[Civil]

Nope. The least talented nation is still Pakistan, whether you look at history or the present or even the future.

India have been terribly unlucky in ICC tournaments over the last few years. However, this ongoing debacle is not down to luck. It was down to poor selection and tactics.

Least talented nation is Pakistan?

Just don't bother anymore man, your whole gig and facade is pointless.

 

[DRsohail]

They are still the most talented cricket team but results in T20 are not good, they have shown it in test cricket, I wil take this least talented Indian side over most talented Pakistani side over any day of the week in all formats.

 

[RamLakhan]

Even England is looking like minnow against Sri Lanka batting first on these hopeless Arab pitches! I hope BCCI will stop playing in this country like they did with Sharjah in past! Pakistan has much better pitches, playing conditions & environment (& even crowd)! Hopefully a revival of Pakistan's home pitches in its own country puts an end once again to playing cricket in UAE... Playing too much in UAE/Dubai might even lead to match fixing scandals in coming days!

Indian fans should not take it so much with this tournament! But at least in this way we will get rid of Kohli's captaincy & Shastri's coaching, which can improve Indian cricket further!

 

[UzmanBeast]

The success of a country is determined by their performance as a test cricket nation largely.

Indian team currently has multiple test series wins in Australia and at worst will have a test series draw in England with a good chance of test series win in England too.

They have also been among the top of the test ranking for five continuous years and won pretty much everything at home or in subcontinent.

The ICC tournaments failures definitely doesn't put them in the league of great Australian team or West Indies team of 70s but it definitely makes them a great test team without any question.

All this talk of being least talented is ridiculous when you see the amount of success they have achieved in the format where this talent matters more than anywhere else.

Virat Kohli and his men have mastered test cricket and in pretty much all conditions except swing conditions where they are still the second best after the New Zealanders and ahead of England.

I do agree, but then again, test cricket isn't the only format.

There are three formats, each with its own merits to define success.

In the next few years, the best test teams will be the ones that win overseas series and secure the WTC Mace.

Silverware matters, regardless of the format.

Fans might say that "it's just a T20WC, only ODI matters", but that is the wrong mentality. A top team (which I do believe India is) should always be looking for all the silverware.

The fact is that the resources available are not being used at all. The talent is there, the skills are there, the options are there, the #1 T20 league is there, the financial support is there, but it is quite concerning to think that none of these have enabled India to win a world event in the recent past.

I think that this T20WC will create a dynamic change in the Indian cricketing system. In what ways, I cannot explain, but I have a gut feeling that this is going to happen.

 

[someone21]

India has a good ICC WC records, with semi finalists in recent events. Together with epic test victories in recent years.

Yet, this tournament is an eye-opener. The Indian core team is tired, unmotivated, and out of their peak. There needs to be refreshments of staff/players.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Indians are still great in producing world class players.
Real problem with India is that their premier players are out of form but are irreplaceable due to their legacy.

 

[PakLFC]

No they are not the least talented but the most overrated for sure. Countries like Afghanistan, Scotland and Namibia are much worse then them. It is comments like even our third team can win tournaments as Pandya said that makes seeing them lose so sweet A good Test and 50 overs side but struggling at the T20 format. They just play too much Cricket methinks

 

[Pakpak]

They will take action.

If it was Pakistan we'd still have Dhoni, Yuvraj and other has beens playing on til 2030.

They will replace their old players and move on. Something which we never do as evident by two geriatrics in our team and at best one of them who didn't need to be there.

 

[Mamoon]

Your obvious bias is disgusting. Pakistan the least talented? I'm not pakistani and even i feel angry at this joke post

Haha nothing surprises me from you as you have one track mind and you only come here to troll. There is no objectivity in your comments therefore, they are quite amusing. Well, ask some of the cricketer and I mean International cricketers who would tell you otherwise when it comes to Pakistan. I guess those cricketers are nothing to Mamoon.

Least talented nation is Pakistan?

Just don't bother anymore man, your whole gig and facade is pointless.

Pakistan has never produced a single batsman who is worthy of being considered in the same class as Tendulkar, Viv Richards, Lara, Ponting, Kohli etc. There is no doubt that Babar looks good, but he has a very long way to go in Test cricket before he can be considered at their level.

Pakistan has never produced a single ATG WK batsman in the same class as Gilchrist, Dhoni, Sangakkara etc. It is way too early to talk about Rizwan in that category.

The fact that he is already viewed as the best Pakistani WK batsman ever clearly shows how embarrassing our legacy is when it comes to WK batsman.

Pakistan has not produced a single successful Test class all-rounder since Imran Khan. Razzaq was a mediocre Test cricketer and Mahmood was a one series wonder.

Pakistan has not produced a single spinner with 350+ Test wickets.

No ODI batsman from Pakistan has scored more than 20 hundreds yet.

Pakistan have produced only one successful all-format middle-batsman in the last 20 years. Between Yousuf and Babar’s debuts, no middle-order batsman had the game to succeed in all formats, which clearly shows the lack of talent and skill among Pakistani batsmen.

Pakistan has a mediocre legacy in all departments of the game except fast bowling, and the fast bowling legacy itself was largely established due to reverse-swing achieved with dubious means.

As soon as those dubious means became less accessible and practicable due to better quality cameras, the quality of our fast bowling tumbled.

The likes of Shaheen and Naseem would also be demolishing sides from 120/2 to 150 all out in the 80’s and 90’s with the type of balls the likes of Imran, Wasim and Waqar were bowling with.

Pakistan has no natural talent in cricket. We are just amazing at making excuses and benefiting from illegal practices. On top of that, we are the most ignorant and intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world.

Our players, ex-players, coaches, selector, media analysts and even fans etc. have zero understanding of cricket.

 

[SameerK]

Pakistan has never produced a single batsman who is worthy of being considered in the same class as Tendulkar, Viv Richards, Lara, Ponting, Kohli etc. There is no doubt that Babar looks good, but he has a very long way to go in Test cricket before he can be considered at their level.

Pakistan has never produced a single ATG WK batsman in the same class as Gilchrist, Dhoni, Sangakkara etc. It is way too early to talk about Rizwan in that category.

The fact that he is already viewed as the best Pakistani WK batsman ever clearly shows how embarrassing our legacy is when it comes to WK batsman.

Pakistan has not produced a single successful Test class all-rounder since Imran Khan. Razzaq was a mediocre Test cricketer and Mahmood was a one series wonder.

Pakistan has not produced a single spinner with 350+ Test wickets.

No ODI batsman from Pakistan has scored more than 20 hundreds yet.

Pakistan have produced only one successful all-format middle-batsman in the last 20 years. Between Yousuf and Babar’s debuts, no middle-order batsman had the game to succeed in all formats, which clearly shows the lack of talent and skill among Pakistani batsmen.

Pakistan has a mediocre legacy in all departments of the game except fast bowling, and the fast bowling legacy itself was largely established due to reverse-swing achieved with dubious means.

As soon as those dubious means became less accessible and practicable due to better quality cameras, the quality of our fast bowling tumbled.

The likes of Shaheen and Naseem would also be demolishing sides from 120/2 to 150 all out in the 80’s and 90’s with the type of balls the likes of Imran, Wasim and Waqar were bowling with.

Pakistan has no natural talent in cricket. We are just amazing at making excuses and benefiting from illegal practices. On top of that, we are the most ignorant and intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world.

Our players, ex-players, coaches, selector, media analysts and even fans etc. have zero understanding of cricket.

We get it. You don’t like Pakistan cricket

 

[Babeikh]

Has anyone seen Bangladesh play in this tournament?

 

[silentkiller187]

Pakistan has never produced a single batsman who is worthy of being considered in the same class as Tendulkar, Viv Richards, Lara, Ponting, Kohli etc. There is no doubt that Babar looks good, but he has a very long way to go in Test cricket before he can be considered at their level.

Pakistan has never produced a single ATG WK batsman in the same class as Gilchrist, Dhoni, Sangakkara etc. It is way too early to talk about Rizwan in that category.

The fact that he is already viewed as the best Pakistani WK batsman ever clearly shows how embarrassing our legacy is when it comes to WK batsman.

Pakistan has not produced a single successful Test class all-rounder since Imran Khan. Razzaq was a mediocre Test cricketer and Mahmood was a one series wonder.

Pakistan has not produced a single spinner with 350+ Test wickets.

No ODI batsman from Pakistan has scored more than 20 hundreds yet.

Pakistan have produced only one successful all-format middle-batsman in the last 20 years. Between Yousuf and Babar’s debuts, no middle-order batsman had the game to succeed in all formats, which clearly shows the lack of talent and skill among Pakistani batsmen.

Pakistan has a mediocre legacy in all departments of the game except fast bowling, and the fast bowling legacy itself was largely established due to reverse-swing achieved with dubious means.

As soon as those dubious means became less accessible and practicable due to better quality cameras, the quality of our fast bowling tumbled.

The likes of Shaheen and Naseem would also be demolishing sides from 120/2 to 150 all out in the 80’s and 90’s with the type of balls the likes of Imran, Wasim and Waqar were bowling with.

Pakistan has no natural talent in cricket. We are just amazing at making excuses and benefiting from illegal practices. On top of that, we are the most ignorant and intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world.

Our players, ex-players, coaches, selector, media analysts and even fans etc. have zero understanding of cricket.

im assuming that makes it even worse then that a team with no talent is sitting pretty top of the table with 3 wins out of 3, while india with a never ending supply of riches look like they are going home even after manufacturing the schedule to suit themselves.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is how a team with no talent keeps overacheiving? because according to you the coaches are rubbish, the players are rubbish there is no talent, even 2nd xi ipl teams would beat them.

On the flipside of this why is an ATG team struggling so badly with unlimited resources, ipl best league in the world, best players in the world, plenty of prep time in these conditions before hand , why has india never won a t20 world cup since the inception of the IPL if they are so good and ATG level?

 

[Pakhs]

Indians are still great in producing world class players.
Real problem with India is that their premier players are out of form but are irreplaceable due to their legacy.

The only problem I see is that their greatest players since Dhoni do not perform in knock out matches as often namely Kohli and Rohit.

And on top Kohli is not a great captain.

 

[Pakhs]

im assuming that makes it even worse then that a team with no talent is sitting pretty top of the table with 3 wins out of 3, while india with a never ending supply of riches look like they are going home even after manufacturing the schedule to suit themselves.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is how a team with no talent keeps overacheiving? because according to you the coaches are rubbish, the players are rubbish there is no talent, even 2nd xi ipl teams would beat them.

On the flipside of this why is an ATG team struggling so badly with unlimited resources, ipl best league in the world, best players in the world, plenty of prep time in these conditions before hand , why has india never won a t20 world cup since the inception of the IPL if they are so good and ATG level?

Lol this guy is crazy! As if everyone else in the 90s were bowling with Pink bowls.

 

[Lahorijat]

One of the Definitions of talent by Merriam Webster dictionary
1a : a special often athletic, creative, or artistic aptitude
b : general intelligence or mental power: ABILITY
Would be interesting to break this open and analyze how a country/culture can have more talent or less group talent?

 

[Civil]

Pakistan has never produced a single batsman who is worthy of being considered in the same class as Tendulkar, Viv Richards, Lara, Ponting, Kohli etc. There is no doubt that Babar looks good, but he has a very long way to go in Test cricket before he can be considered at their level.

Pakistan has never produced a single ATG WK batsman in the same class as Gilchrist, Dhoni, Sangakkara etc. It is way too early to talk about Rizwan in that category.

The fact that he is already viewed as the best Pakistani WK batsman ever clearly shows how embarrassing our legacy is when it comes to WK batsman.

Pakistan has not produced a single successful Test class all-rounder since Imran Khan. Razzaq was a mediocre Test cricketer and Mahmood was a one series wonder.

Pakistan has not produced a single spinner with 350+ Test wickets.

No ODI batsman from Pakistan has scored more than 20 hundreds yet.

Pakistan have produced only one successful all-format middle-batsman in the last 20 years. Between Yousuf and Babar’s debuts, no middle-order batsman had the game to succeed in all formats, which clearly shows the lack of talent and skill among Pakistani batsmen.

Pakistan has a mediocre legacy in all departments of the game except fast bowling, and the fast bowling legacy itself was largely established due to reverse-swing achieved with dubious means.

As soon as those dubious means became less accessible and practicable due to better quality cameras, the quality of our fast bowling tumbled.

The likes of Shaheen and Naseem would also be demolishing sides from 120/2 to 150 all out in the 80’s and 90’s with the type of balls the likes of Imran, Wasim and Waqar were bowling with.

Pakistan has no natural talent in cricket. We are just amazing at making excuses and benefiting from illegal practices. On top of that, we are the most ignorant and intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world.

Our players, ex-players, coaches, selector, media analysts and even fans etc. have zero understanding of cricket.

None of what you wrote matters to anyone it was a waste of space. You can spend all the time in the world typing away you will always just be this forum's clown character.

Spend your whole life away in this pointless endeavour it doesn't matter to me. The statement that Pakistan is the "least" talented nation in cricket simply does not hold.

 

[gani999]

The Indian managements priorities seem to be like this

1. IPL
2. Bilateral tests/ World test series
3. ODI world cup/ champions trophy
4. Bilateral ODIs
5. T20 world cup
6. Bilateral T20s

It's got nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the fact that no one in the Indian management cares for this world cup. The players themselves have zero motivation to play it.

 

[Civil]

I agree it has nothing to do with talent. I would say India is underachieving in ICC tourneys but not the least talented.

I disagree slightly with your order though. T20 world Cup would be in #3 in management's eyes along with the other ICC tourneys. It was just timing issue with the two higher priorities being so close to world T20 his year due to COVID that caused burnout.

 

[IMMY69]

With the big cricket crazy population and the massive investment India really should be dominating in all formats. Doesn't matter what format they priories they should be absolutely dominating world cricket.

If it's not lack of overall talent for the game then what is it?

 

[gani999]

With the big cricket crazy population and the massive investment India really should be dominating in all formats. Doesn't matter what format they priories they should be absolutely dominating world cricket.

If it's not lack of overall talent for the game then what is it?

You can twist the argument any way you want but a talentless country cannot be ranked at no 2 in tests, no 4 in ODIs and No 2 in T20Is.

 

[Technics 1210]

England has the most talent in cricket right now.

 

[Uzi]

They definitely have talent, but a lot of talent is overrated.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Lmao no absolutely not. Had they won a toss they'd be sitting pretty at 2-0 and nobody would care

 

[Rana]

Op is the king of clueless, arrogant posts

India are a good team but their prioritie$$ got the best of them this time round

 

[The Googly]

OK - like all Pak fans, I've enjoyed india's struggles in this WC. But let's give credit where its due. India are a magnificent test side - far ahead of Pakistan and their performances in Australia were amazing. So no - they are full of talent. They are doing poorly in this WC because their ODI/T20 side is going downhill. Does not mean they lack talent.

 

[IMMY69]

You can twist the argument any way you want but a talentless country cannot be ranked at no 2 in tests, no 4 in ODIs and No 2 in T20Is.

I assure you if the kiwis had a population of a billion people with money to burn they would be wiping the floor with every team... they're more athletic and would have a far bigger talent pool to pick from then they do now.