Does majority have monopoly over the truth?

[ftbno1]

Today in India people living in same cities, same houses and sometimes even in in same bedroom live in parallel universe. In other universe India is shining and any one who thinks contrary is lying or jealous. Modiji has done wonderful job, demonetization has broken the back of black economy, gst is an inspirational idea, farm laws arengreat and world islooking at us for leadership.

In my view our social fabric has been torned apart, right to criticize has been trampled with(disha ravi) and population is becoming increasing intolerant.

The core of every political issue in Indian is Hindu vs Muslim/non Hindus.

Now grew up in a part of Haryana where I never encounted a Muslim man/woman in my life until my post graduation. Thus I was did not have any preconceived notion about them. One's I encountered after that were great, good, deciful or evil like any bramhin(myself), rajput, jaat,baniya etc I encountered in my life.

As I moved in other parts of country I realized this is not the case everywhere. Their were tensions in society brimming for unlike Sikhs Muslim populace of India never asssimilated in Indian class. Probably because most of those with means and education went across.

This is the USP of Modi ji. He may not give us good governance or growth or jobs. He mismanage the economy to such a way that most big industries are failing, banks are crumbling even the supporters of govt like essel group are feeling the heat but he provides one thing. He may harass us but he will harass Muslims more. Nothing more nothing less. That's the game.

You don't give us governance or jobs or infra just keep insuling minorities and we will be happy.
Look at our environment. Their is prejuices not even among communities but also individuals in the family. But their was a veil of decency earlier which is required. Best word for it in any language is " Samajik Sadbhav" This is gone.

I was shocked to hear one of my maternal uncle say that he does not mind killing of children and he is one of most decent and softspoken man.

I desperately hope I am wrong but I feel like sane German in the reich.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You come from a position of privilege, so it makes sense why you think that people are intolerant, when you never felt the need to be. But for people like us who are still fighting for equality, tolerance is a luxury. Tolerance can wait after the revolution.

 

[Technics 1210]

You come from a position of privilege, so it makes sense why you think that people are intolerant, when you never felt the need to be. But for people like us who are still fighting for equality, tolerance is a luxury. Tolerance can wait after the revolution.

In the UK we do not live in an open and accepting society, we live in a tolerate society. If in the UK I don't like something, I simply tolerate it, there is nothing much else I can do.

There is no acceptance of differences barring minute examples.

Foriegn cultures in the UK are not accepted, but tolerated for example.

To answer the OP: majority is not proportionate to truth. Though those who control the media, do indeed control the perception of truth.

 

[ftbno1]

You come from a position of privilege, so it makes sense why you think that people are intolerant, when you never felt the need to be. But for people like us who are still fighting for equality, tolerance is a luxury. Tolerance can wait after the revolution.

What revolution?? Chronic capitalism and economic decay can be seen by any one. Our institutions like SC and EC are getting ruined.

 

[ftbno1]

You come from a position of privilege, so it makes sense why you think that people are intolerant, when you never felt the need to be. But for people like us who are still fighting for equality, tolerance is a luxury. Tolerance can wait after the revolution.

In the UK we do not live in an open and accepting society, we live in a tolerate society. If in the UK I don't like something, I simply tolerate it, there is nothing much else I can do.

There is no acceptance of differences barring minute examples.

Foriegn cultures in the UK are not accepted, but tolerated for example.

To answer the OP: majority is not proportionate to truth. Though those who control the media, do indeed control the perception of truth.

I doubt some one would to jail for anti govt ******* in UK. Their are bigoted people everywhere but in UK even the most racist or communal person will do dogwhisle as he fear society. #samajik sadbhav.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What revolution?? Chronic capitalism and economic decay can be seen by any one. Our institutions like SC and EC are getting ruined.

I have nothing more to say as it will be futile.

 

[ftbno1]

I have nothing more to say as it will be futile.

I understand it is difficult to challenge facts while clinging to the faith. This hesitation which you are displaying to speak openly proves my point.

 

[LongHorn]

Happens in America as well

Orange Man bad
Biden the savior

During election time, not agreeing with either of these 2 statements would see you boycotted in many places

 

[Local.Dada]

Majority have control over the truth but we have our own control over paragraphs and spacing. Let’s use it next time to enhance reader experience.

 

[OMB]

Majority have control over the truth but we have our own control over paragraphs and spacing. Let’s use it next time to enhance reader experience.

Thank you but please stay on topic

 

[ftbno1]

You come from a position of privilege, so it makes sense why you think that people are intolerant, when you never felt the need to be. But for people like us who are still fighting for equality, tolerance is a luxury. Tolerance can wait after the revolution.

In the UK we do not live in an open and accepting society, we live in a tolerate society. If in the UK I don't like something, I simply tolerate it, there is nothing much else I can do.

There is no acceptance of differences barring minute examples.

Foriegn cultures in the UK are not accepted, but tolerated for example.

To answer the OP: majority is not proportionate to truth. Though those who control the media, do indeed control the perception of truth.

I have nothing more to say as it will be futile.

Happens in America as well

Orange Man bad
Biden the savior

During election time, not agreeing with either of these 2 statements would see you boycotted in many places

In America Foirth estate worked the institutions worked.
Trump was not able to steal the election even with all his tricks. In India he may have succeded.

 

[shaykh]

I don’t think it’s about the majority....it’s about who is given a voice to speak for the majority ...

So a good example is testimony literature ...someone’s lived experience which is politicised and then used generally...often because the author will present things in that way...

So to give an example:

“I’d like to stress that it’s not only my life, it’s also the testimony of my people ... The important thing is that what has happened to me has happened to many other people too: My story is the story of all poor Guatemalans. My personal experience is the reality of a whole people.”

So the linking of the personal to the political sphere...I get it...the disadvantaged and marginalised need a voice...but it’s only certain voices that get heard...and in this case it is Rigoberta Manchu...this memoir is often used by the left to describe the reality of Guatemala even though in real terms it’s the reality through her eyes...

This isn’t me disputing the truth of ones story but more how ones personal story becomes a collective story...so for example this is a snippet from a text from a popular Franco-Algerian feminist ...

“My father had a fairly simple conception of each person’s place: men and women were certainly equal before the law but men outside and women at home! This was his vision of the world, inherited from his Kabyle education. A very common viewpoint among immigrant workers. When my father arrived in France, how could he understand that this model was no longer the approach of the modern society which welcomed him – where women could go out, work, organise their lives – when he moved into a housing estate almost exclusively inhabited by other immigrant workers from the Maghreb? Kabyle fathers, like him, came from a patriarchal and macho society where men had the obligation to take care of the needs of women.”

While her perspective may indeed be true to her...I think you can see why she’s popular in France...patriarchal Algeria V Emancipated France...perspectives actually which suit both the left and the right...the left who infantilise ethnic minorities and always want to help...a bit colonial in that sense...and then you have the right who just want to show how backward ethnics are...

This is what she says about men in the banlieu ...

“They live in a veritable state of schizophrenia: kings within the family and non-existent nothings outside. This lack of appreciation outside contributes heavily to their feeling of being excluded, rejected. They experience an intense feeling of injustice, which translates for those of immigrant origin into a feeling of not belonging to the Nation.”

It’s an interesting take cos it inevitably ties patriarchy with issues of immigration and national identity ...which also then implies the conventional French don’t have this issue...

Because she is an ‘insider’ her views are taken as gospel and used to generalise...this is another book which sold very well and gave those outside the banlieu an ‘understanding’ of how family structures and Algerian men are...

So it needn’t be the majority who determine truth...and it’s like this for every obvious reasons...people want simple and more important singular answers to difficult questions...we prefer to generalise...

 

[ftbno1]

With exception of terrorism or henious crimes every situation is shades of grey.
But indians are generally nuanced individuals who do not commit to anything without proper thought.
The situation is more like that of rwanda even though some conerns or issues of Hutus against tutsis were genuine and historical. But the action taken by them was so horrific and unconscionable especially considering than most of populace was for it.
That is my worry that good, decent human beings of our society are creating blind spot in their hearts and minds about minorities or minority opinion.

 

[CricketCartoons]

With exception of terrorism or henious crimes every situation is shades of grey.
But indians are generally nuanced individuals who do not commit to anything without proper thought.
The situation is more like that of rwanda even though some conerns or issues of Hutus against tutsis were genuine and historical. But the action taken by them was so horrific and unconscionable especially considering than most of populace was for it.
That is my worry that good, decent human beings of our society are creating blind spot in their hearts and minds about minorities or minority opinion.

The entire premise is wrong, to see it between minority and majority. Minority can be oppressor and majority can be oppressed. The only thing matters is who is on the just side and who isn't, and not using loaded terms like minority or majority which are labels carrying extra meaning.

 

[ftbno1]

The entire premise is wrong, to see it between minority and majority. Minority can be oppressor and majority can be oppressed. The only thing matters is who is on the just side and who isn't, and not using loaded terms like minority or majority which are labels carrying extra meaning.

Their is simple line which defines humanity " All humans are created equal. " Majority can not change this simple truth

1800s majority of Americans believed slavery is ok.
1940s Majority Germans believed Jews are sub human.
Even today majority of Muslim world belives that a Muslim man and non Muslim is not an equal.
I amazed how a man justifes NRC and cry aloud a lot when a Muslim is mistreated.
It is amazing that countries around us are becoming more liberal and we are striving to be hindu taliban.

 

[ftbno1]

The entire premise is wrong, to see it between minority and majority. Minority can be oppressor and majority can be oppressed. The only thing matters is who is on the just side and who isn't, and not using loaded terms like minority or majority which are labels carrying extra meaning.

So you are saying Hutus were right in slaughtering tutusis??

 

[CricketCartoons]

So you are saying Hutus were right in slaughtering tutusis??

I dont know where is rawanda or who are hutus and who are tutsis. Sorry if you want to discuss this.

I thought you were extrapolating to india. Minority majority prism is flawed.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Their is simple line which defines humanity " All humans are created equal. " Majority can not change this simple truth

1800s majority of Americans believed slavery is ok.
1940s Majority Germans believed Jews are sub human.
Even today majority of Muslim world belives that a Muslim man and non Muslim is not an equal.
I amazed how a man justifes NRC and cry aloud a lot when a Muslim is mistreated.
It is amazing that countries around us are becoming more liberal and we are striving to be hindu taliban.

Another stupid logic. 1800s americans believed slavery is ok, 2000s people believe freedom of speech is ok, therefore FoS is as bad as slavery.

 

[Itachi]

Their is simple line which defines humanity " All humans are created equal. " Majority can not change this simple truth

1800s majority of Americans believed slavery is ok.
1940s Majority Germans believed Jews are sub human.
Even today majority of Muslim world belives that a Muslim man and non Muslim is not an equal.
I amazed how a man justifes NRC and cry aloud a lot when a Muslim is mistreated.
It is amazing that countries around us are becoming more liberal and we are striving to be hindu taliban.

This is the issue with some "woke" people. You have no idea what NRC is and yet you are drawing conclusion.

NRC has nothing to do with religion. It's about lineage. I went through it, Hindus, Muslims, Christians and people from all religion present in assam went through it.

It was a demand of the people including the Muslims living in assam who also took part in agitation of Assam during 1980s.

People should atleast do their homework. You are trying to prove what you believe is right and all the other majority of Indians perspective is wrong.

You are suffering from the same mentality that you are accusing people of.

What makes your perception right and millions and millions of people perception wrong? Unless you are the GOD, you are imperfect and have no credibility in judging other people.

 

[ftbno1]

I dont know where is rawanda or who are hutus and who are tutsis. Sorry if you want to discuss this.

I thought you were extrapolating to india. Minority majority prism is flawed.

Another stupid logic. 1800s americans believed slavery is ok, 2000s people believe freedom of speech is ok, therefore FoS is as bad as slavery.

Bhai mein keh raha hun majority can many times be WRONG!!
Indian majority at this time is wrong to embrace communalism over secularism.
Guys like yogi adityanath should be in sidelins(as they used be) not front and centre of politics.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Bhai mein keh raha hun majority can many times be WRONG!!
Indian majority at this time is wrong to embrace communalism over secularism.
Guys like yogi adityanath should be in sidelins(as they used be) not front and centre of politics.

People can be wrong or right, whether minority or majority, why do you have to create to say this obvious fact. At least respect democracy, that people can choose what they want, and those who lost in democratic process should respect those choices too, even if they don't agree with it.

Although with minority, they are more prone in making selfish choices, while majority can think about the greater good. Which is why you see minorities the world over supporting one particular party (70, 80%) while majority is evenly divided in opinions. Whites voted for Trump and Biden 50-50.

 

[ftbno1]

What was the need of NRC in whole nation of problem was in North East??
Why Hindus are exempted from it??
How you would feel about the nation you are born in that you have to provide documentary proof of your citizenship??
Govt. abdicated it's reponsiblities and put on us on citizens where you are guilty until you provide proof of your innocence.
Could'nt govt find more humane way instead of going to nazi playbbok of registars and camps??
This happened not because of any idesire of govt. to resolve the issue.
If their were no Muslims in India no will vote for Modiji as he is original Trump who never accept mistakes.
Has he ever acknowledged demonatization was mistake, pathankot and uri were catastrophic security failures??
Yes our country is gone mad Anchor like Arnab goswami who rejoices at the death of soldier is a patriot.
While a communities and states who disporoltianately sends its boys and girls in armed forces to die for us are anti national.
A PM who ran away on prospect of being with is wife is a real man.
And a PM who has audacity to charm wife of a n earl & vieroy is impotent.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What was the need of NRC in whole nation of problem was in North East??
Why Hindus are exempted from it??

Can you show the draft for this pan india NRC so I can read the provisions?

 

[Itachi]

What was the need of NRC in whole nation of problem was in North East??
Why Hindus are exempted from it??
How you would feel about the nation you are born in that you have to provide documentary proof of your citizenship??
Govt. abdicated it's reponsiblities and put on us on citizens where you are guilty until you provide proof of your innocence.
Could'nt govt find more humane way instead of going to nazi playbbok of registars and camps??
This happened not because of any idesire of govt. to resolve the issue.
If their were no Muslims in India no will vote for Modiji as he is original Trump who never accept mistakes.
Has he ever acknowledged demonatization was mistake, pathankot and uri were catastrophic security failures??
Yes our country is gone mad Anchor like Arnab goswami who rejoices at the death of soldier is a patriot.
While a communities and states who disporoltianately sends its boys and girls in armed forces to die for us are anti national.
A PM who ran away on prospect of being with is wife is a real man.
And a PM who has audacity to charm wife of a n earl & vieroy is impotent.

Show me the clause in NRC where Hindus are exempted from it.

 

[ftbno1]

People can be wrong or right, whether minority or majority, why do you have to create to say this obvious fact. At least respect democracy, that people can choose what they want, and those who lost in democratic process should respect those choices too, even if they don't agree with it.

Although with minority, they are more prone in making selfish choices, while majority can think about the greater good. Which is why you see minorities the world over supporting one particular party (70, 80%) while majority is evenly divided in opinions. Whites voted for Trump and Biden 50-50.

The problem is India is no longer a proper democracy. People do not have any prospective anymore.
Go ten years back we could say any thing about government. We used to mock and abuse manmohan singh. Can we do the same with those PM??
UP and Bihar govts. are actually bringing laws against govt. criticism.
Imagine a human being going to jail for a tweet?? A fu**ing tweet in India?
Not Afghanistan
Not Saudi Arabia
Not ISIS
But our India.
The way things are going in a decade I may go to jail for eating chicken while being a bramhin.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The problem is India is no longer a proper democracy. People do not have any prospective anymore.
Go ten years back we could say any thing about government. We used to mock and abuse manmohan singh. Can we do the same with those PM??
UP and Bihar govts. are actually bringing laws against govt. criticism.
Imagine a human being going to jail for a tweet?? A fu**ing tweet in India?
Not Afghanistan
Not Saudi Arabia
Not ISIS
But our India.
The way things are going in a decade I may go to jail for eating chicken while being a bramhin.

Just one thing. Show the NRC clause you were talking about.

For a person talking of truth, prove that you are speaking the truth. Show the clause.

 

[ftbno1]

NRC also insulting to Hindus. If as a Hindu you are not able to provide documents you will be covered under citizens amendment Bill and considered a Bangladeshi or Pakistani.
Bhai dimag lagao 1+1 2 hi hote hai.
The real motive of govt. is not resolve the issue but to polarise. Which goes back to my point that their only usp is harrasing minorities. If used half of that mind and ingenuity in governance??
Aaate mein namak chalta hai. Par kuch kaam bhi to karo.
Kisi emloyee ki sales naa ho par woh kahe ki mein competitive company ki jindagi haram kar dunga. Toh aisa employee kitne din tik payega??

 

[Itachi]

The problem is India is no longer a proper democracy. People do not have any prospective anymore.
Go ten years back we could say any thing about government. We used to mock and abuse manmohan singh. Can we do the same with those PM??
UP and Bihar govts. are actually bringing laws against govt. criticism.
Imagine a human being going to jail for a tweet?? A fu**ing tweet in India?
Not Afghanistan
Not Saudi Arabia
Not ISIS
But our India.
The way things are going in a decade I may go to jail for eating chicken while being a bramhin.

You are writing too much assumptions without any content.

Show the clause in NRC where Hindus are exempted from it as you have stated earlier.

 

[Itachi]

NRC also insulting to Hindus. If as a Hindu you are not able to provide documents you will be covered under citizens amendment Bill and considered a Bangladeshi or Pakistani.
Bhai dimag lagao 1+1 2 hi hote hai.
The real motive of govt. is not resolve the issue but to polarise. Which goes back to my point that their only usp is harrasing minorities. If used half of that mind and ingenuity in governance??
Aaate mein namak chalta hai. Par kuch kaam bhi to karo.
Kisi emloyee ki sales naa ho par woh kahe ki mein competitive company ki jindagi haram kar dunga. Toh aisa employee kitne din tik payega??

Wait.

First you said Hindus were exempted from NRC.

Now you are saying NRC is insulting to Hindus.

So is it the exemption from it is insulting?

 

[ftbno1]

I dont know where is rawanda or who are hutus and who are tutsis. Sorry if you want to discuss this.

I thought you were extrapolating to india. Minority majority prism is flawed.

Another stupid logic. 1800s americans believed slavery is ok, 2000s people believe freedom of speech is ok, therefore FoS is as bad as slavery.

This is the issue with some "woke" people. You have no idea what NRC is and yet you are drawing conclusion.

NRC has nothing to do with religion. It's about lineage. I went through it, Hindus, Muslims, Christians and people from all religion present in assam went through it.

It was a demand of the people including the Muslims living in assam who also took part in agitation of Assam during 1980s.

People should atleast do their homework. You are trying to prove what you believe is right and all the other majority of Indians perspective is wrong.

You are suffering from the same mentality that you are accusing people of.

What makes your perception right and millions and millions of people perception wrong? Unless you are the GOD, you are imperfect and have no credibility in judging other people.

People can be wrong or right, whether minority or majority, why do you have to create to say this obvious fact. At least respect democracy, that people can choose what they want, and those who lost in democratic process should respect those choices too, even if they don't agree with it.

Although with minority, they are more prone in making selfish choices, while majority can think about the greater good. Which is why you see minorities the world over supporting one particular party (70, 80%) while majority is evenly divided in opinions. Whites voted for Trump and Biden 50-50.

Show me the clause in NRC where Hindus are exempted from it.

Just one thing. Show the NRC clause you were talking about.

For a person talking of truth, prove that you are speaking the truth. Show the clause.

Bhai any one who is not having a fake degree can see the connection between NRC and CAA.
If you want to be blind it's your choice.

 

[ftbno1]

QUOTE=Itachi;11134927]Wait.

First you said Hindus were exempted from NRC.

Now you are saying NRC is insulting to Hindus.

So is it the exemption from it is insulting?[/QUOTE]
Insult is a relative term. I my PM is acccused a mass murder it insulting for me as we could not find anyone else in country of billion plus. May be it's not insulting for you. Insult is a state of mind you see.
You really good at republic tv strategy in finding chinks in long text and focussing on that rather ten whole point.
When I wrote NRC exemtps Hindus Imeant to say that even if a hindu is not able to porcide full documentary proof of citzenship he will protected under CAB and consodered coming from Pakistan or Bangladesh. Understood??

 

[Itachi]

QUOTE=Itachi;11134927]Wait.

First you said Hindus were exempted from NRC.

Now you are saying NRC is insulting to Hindus.

So is it the exemption from it is insulting?

Insult is a relative term. I my PM is acccused a mass murder it insulting for me as we could not find anyone else in country of billion plus. May be it's not insulting for you. Insult is a state of mind you see.
You really good at republic tv strategy in finding chinks in long text and focussing on that rather ten whole point.
When I wrote NRC exemtps Hindus Imeant to say that even if a hindu is not able to porcide full documentary proof of citzenship he will protected under CAB and consodered coming from Pakistan or Bangladesh. Understood??

NRC and CAA are two different entities. They are mutually not exclusive to each other and they are serving different purposes. If one objects to CAA, doesn't mean he objects NRC. The protest in assam was in support of NRC but against CAA.

You lack the knowledge of socio political scenario regarding NRC, CAA and foreign tribunals. Read more about it and then you'll realize that the so called "woke" people are shouting because they lack the knowledge and hence the misunderstanding.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Bhai any one who is not having a fake degree can see the connection between NRC and CAA.
If you want to be blind it's your choice.

I don't want to be blind. Which is why want you to show the source of the pan india NRC draft. Just show the draft, I will find the clause myself.

 

[ftbno1]

"I don't give a damn what's in the law...."

You don't, but the Indian people do and they have trust in the constitution of India. Govt is a part of the system and NOT THE SYSTEM. Even if any part of the system tries to take advantage, there will be repercussion down the line and in order to do so, you'll need to trust the system which Indian people does.

Law and order is what makes a country stable and prosper. Unlike Pakistan, India doesnt have a discriminatory clause in constitution where minority can not become head of the nation. Law and order can not vigilant each and every other people and their actions. But it can bring stability in terms of crimes that are reported.

You have lack of understanding of the system which clearly shows by your statement about you don't care about the law. We do. So does rest of India.

Law and order was words most used by Trump.
Where was law and order in Godhra.
What system you are talking about where tweets led to jail and sedition charges.
Look at out news outlet country is facing worst unemployment crisis, youth dividend which was to power our economy is going down the gutter.
What our media is talking about?? Are you really blind. Are you honestly saying nothing is wrong?? Are you proud that a goon like yogi adityanath is our CM??
What system are you talking about our elections used to be envy of the world. Many of our previous election commisiners won Magsaysay prizes.What has happened to our judiciary. Every business house barring a few gujatis are struggling. Inflation, gas prices etc. This when oil price is low and we have not seen bad monsoon.
Other than slogans and ** please tell how you would grade this government??

 

[ftbno1]

You show me proof that 5 lakh have been credited to your account by govt.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You show me proof that 5 lakh have been credited to your account by govt.

Mr Truth, where is the NRC draft. Share a link, I will do the rest and find relevant clauses.

or are you a liar, Mr Truth?

 

[Itachi]

Law and order was words most used by Trump.
Where was law and order in Godhra.
What system you are talking about where tweets led to jail and sedition charges.
Look at out news outlet country is facing worst unemployment crisis, youth dividend which was to power our economy is going down the gutter.
What our media is talking about?? Are you really blind. Are you honestly saying nothing is wrong?? Are you proud that a goon like yogi adityanath is our CM??
What system are you talking about our elections used to be envy of the world. Many of our previous election commisiners won Magsaysay prizes.What has happened to our judiciary. Every business house barring a few gujatis are struggling. Inflation, gas prices etc. This when oil price is low and we have not seen bad monsoon.
Other than slogans and ** please tell how you would grade this government??

Wait.

You talked about the nation, the system all the while but above addresses only govt which is just a part of the system.

Indian people is one of the biggest part of the system. Are you saying the wishes of common people are irrelevant?

 

[ftbno1]

"I don't give a damn what's in the law...."

You don't, but the Indian people do and they have trust in the constitution of India. Govt is a part of the system and NOT THE SYSTEM. Even if any part of the system tries to take advantage, there will be repercussion down the line and in order to do so, you'll need to trust the system which Indian people does.

Law and order is what makes a country stable and prosper. Unlike Pakistan, India doesnt have a discriminatory clause in constitution where minority can not become head of the nation. Law and order can not vigilant each and every other people and their actions. But it can bring stability in terms of crimes that are reported.

You have lack of understanding of the system which clearly shows by your statement about you don't care about the law. We do. So does rest of India.

I don't want to be blind. Which is why want you to show the source of the pan india NRC draft. Just show the draft, I will find the clause myself.

Wait.

You talked about the nation, the system all the while but above addresses only govt which is just a part of the system.

Indian people is one of the biggest part of the system. Are you saying the wishes of common people are irrelevant?

I am say the wishes of our people if they still support this govt is WRONG.
Majority of Rwandan people wished to kill tutsis those who showed humanity were called traitors/anti national.
We never called anna movement anti national.
The person whose political career started with an amdolan is calling others Amdolan Jeevi.
If you can't see that you are part of the problem.

 

[ftbno1]

"I don't give a damn what's in the law...."

You don't, but the Indian people do and they have trust in the constitution of India. Govt is a part of the system and NOT THE SYSTEM. Even if any part of the system tries to take advantage, there will be repercussion down the line and in order to do so, you'll need to trust the system which Indian people does.

Law and order is what makes a country stable and prosper. Unlike Pakistan, India doesnt have a discriminatory clause in constitution where minority can not become head of the nation. Law and order can not vigilant each and every other people and their actions. But it can bring stability in terms of crimes that are reported.

You have lack of understanding of the system which clearly shows by your statement about you don't care about the law. We do. So does rest of India.

I don't want to be blind. Which is why want you to show the source of the pan india NRC draft. Just show the draft, I will find the clause myself.

Wait.

You talked about the nation, the system all the while but above addresses only govt which is just a part of the system.

Indian people is one of the biggest part of the system. Are you saying the wishes of common people are irrelevant?

I am not making any argument. I was assuming you are speaking the truth when you talked about the pan indian NRC. Most humbly I beg that please share the draft so that I can read for myself. Your avoiding the most humble request makes me think you are lying.

Such a big let down for someone who started a thread to discuss the truth, only to turn out to be a liar.

I am ready to apologize and take my words back if you share the draft.

https://youtu.be/Z__6E5hPbHg

 

[CricketCartoons]

https://youtu.be/Z__6E5hPbHg

Why are you quoting multiple times always?

I am asking where did you read the clauses to make a statement on what the NRC will have. and you are sharing a video which says there will be a pan india nrc. Kindly show where is the nrc draft which says what you claimed. Or accept that you are mistaken if it doesn't exist. We all make mistakes. It makes you a liar only if you know it doesnt exist and still made the false statement.

 

[Itachi]

I am say the wishes of our people if they still support this govt is WRONG.
Majority of Rwandan people wished to kill tutsis those who showed humanity were called traitors/anti national.
We never called anna movement anti national.
The person whose political career started with an amdolan is calling others Amdolan Jeevi.
If you can't see that you are part of the problem.

I don't know about Rwanda nor the tutsis so I won't comment on that part.

India is the biggest democratic country and people chose who they believe will fulfill their dreams. And people have elected BJP. Even if you don't agree with actions of the govt, you should respect the system and entrust the people on their own judgement.

As I've said before, you make lots of claims, you have no respect towards laws/constitution, you have no idea about what NRC is and it's requirements.... You couldn't even post a link to the draft of pan India NRC.

Yes, you were a let down because amidst all the big words, the substance that you provided was absolutely zero. You had every opportunity to refute my or CCs post with proper documentations but yet, you chose to rent over it instead of going through the proper ways of refuting someone's statement/questions.

With all the potential this thread had, you yourself diminished it with each post.

It was a letdown.

 

[ftbno1]

Please specify/quote the lie I made. I talked about same chronology what Amit shah he is saying.
Your side of argument claims their is no relationship with CAB and NRC.
Law is looked in letter and spirit. You are focussing on letter not spirit.
This whole thing was created to polarize as govt can give asylum to anyone so not CAB is required.
If you still can't understand keep chanting draft draft 101 times a day
Modi ji will give you nirvana.

 

[ftbno1]

Read about Rwanda and comeback before brushing aside the whole argument.History has habit of repeating itself.What question you ever asked me other thenc draft draft draft.
The fact you did not acknowledge any of my criticosms proves you have no justification for that.

Ok. So you love this government. Maybe I ask Why??. What is the crowning achievement of this government that it probably will win again?

 

[Itachi]

Please specify/quote the lie I made. I talked about same chronology what Amit shah he is saying.
Your side of argument claims their is no relationship with CAB and NRC.
Law is looked in letter and spirit. You are focussing on letter not spirit.
This whole thing was created to polarize as govt can give asylum to anyone so not CAB is required.
If you still can't understand keep chanting draft draft 101 times a day
Modi ji will give you nirvana.

You wonder why even the anti Indian brigade isn't posting in this thread where they could just bash right and left?

Because even they were aware about NRC and CAA more than you and how it doesn't go with their agenda.

 

[Itachi]

Read about Rwanda and comeback before brushing aside the whole argument.History has habit of repeating itself.What question you ever asked me other thenc draft draft draft.
The fact you did not acknowledge any of my criticosms proves you have no justification for that.

Ok. So you love this government. Maybe I ask Why??. What is the crowning achievement of this government that it probably will win again?

I respect the system. I respect law and constitution of this country. I respect the democratic nature of India and whatever party the people chose, I'll respect them even if I disagree with many of their policies.

You watched some youtube video and started making noise here instead of going through actual documents.

My advise, read about NRC and how it addresses illegal immigrations.

 

[ftbno1]

Hahaha

And you wanted reasonable discussion??
Why can't you understand the chronology?? If you can't see the obvious their is nothing to discuss. I would give you example of Jim Crow laws who were racist in intent bit not on paper. But it you won't understand it.

 

[Itachi]

Hahaha

And you wanted reasonable discussion??
Why can't you understand the chronology?? If you can't see the obvious their is nothing to discuss. I would give you example of Jim Crow laws who were racist in intent bit not on paper. But it you won't understand it.

Provide the draft of pan India NRC.

In order to analyze the outcome of any policy, the bill must be read because the implementation will be based upon that. If you could provide that, I am more than willing to discuss.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Please specify/quote the lie I made. I talked about same chronology what Amit shah he is saying.
Your side of argument claims their is no relationship with CAB and NRC.
Law is looked in letter and spirit. You are focussing on letter not spirit.
This whole thing was created to polarize as govt can give asylum to anyone so not CAB is required.
If you still can't understand keep chanting draft draft 101 times a day
Modi ji will give you nirvana.

He talked about the order in which it will be implemented. Doesn't show where it says that one religion will be exempt from nrc? Can you show the nrc draft which says one religion will be exempt?

There is no CAB, but CAA. It does not affect ONE single indian citizen. Next comes NRC, it is not even in draft. So it is talking in air. If NRC affected any indian citizen, then you had a point. So where did you read about it. Show the source. Motabhai saying there will be an NRC is not source. We all know there is an NRC promised.

 

[ftbno1]

Bhai tumhari sui NRC par atki. Jiska jawab maine diya hai. Baaki baaton ka kya.
I am not saying that democracy is bad.
I am saying it is not and informed electorate when media is not acting like a watchdog a different versions of lapdog of govt.
I have no issue if BJP forms govt on back pf performance but problem is they have gavt. has understand that only way of keeping in power is Hindu-Muslim. That's what they did in last general election , that's what they are doing in bengal.
Every govt. has pros and cons. Modi 1 did some good things like ujjwala, mudra etc. But on the way they made some catastrophic blunders also demonatization, gst, security failures worse then 26/11.
In panic BJP understand they won't come back on merit so they started polarizing and were rewarded . In previous election PM said I want toilets not temples. But this time around every thing has changed. BJP just want to intercommunal heat on for politics. This was the reason for NRC-CAB. If govt. was so worried about bangldeshi migrant why it waited more than 5 years. Because they wanted it preceede in Delhi election.
I am pretty sure same will happen near next general elections as they have nothing else to talk about.

 

[Itachi]

Bhai tumhari sui NRC par atki. Jiska jawab maine diya hai. Baaki baaton ka kya.
I am not saying that democracy is bad.
I am saying it is not and informed electorate when media is not acting like a watchdog a different versions of lapdog of govt.
I have no issue if BJP forms govt on back pf performance but problem is they have gavt. has understand that only way of keeping in power is Hindu-Muslim. That's what they did in last general election , that's what they are doing in bengal.
Every govt. has pros and cons. Modi 1 did some good things like ujjwala, mudra etc. But on the way they made some catastrophic blunders also demonatization, gst, security failures worse then 26/11.
In panic BJP understand they won't come back on merit so they started polarizing and were rewarded . In previous election PM said I want toilets not temples. But this time around every thing has changed. BJP just want to intercommunal heat on for politics. This was the reason for NRC-CAB. If govt. was so worried about bangldeshi migrant why it waited more than 5 years. Because they wanted it preceede in Delhi election.
I am pretty sure same will happen near next general elections as they have nothing else to talk about.

NRC isn't under central govt. It is under supervision of Supreme Court.

 

[ftbno1]

Any bill that species it is about applicable to a few particular religions only shows the intent of the government.
Do you understand the term dogwhistle.

 

[ftbno1]

Why you are focussing about NRC without discussing ablut CAB.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Any bill that species it is about applicable to a few particular religions only shows the intent of the government.
Do you understand the term dogwhistle.

There are many such laws, which apply by caste or religion, and they were added by the founding fathers.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why you are focussing about NRC without discussing ablut CAB.

Yes tell me how CAA affects one single indian citizen.

 

[ftbno1]

Tau tumhe desi bhasha mein samjhata hun.
On paper CAA bana hai forign Hindus ke liye thik hai. Aur iska NRC se koi lena dena nai hai.
Ib baat yo se ki NRC mein sarkar sabke pichwade mein ghus jayegi ki apni citizen ship saabit karo. Theek hai.?? Jyadatar log chahe hindu chahe musalman apne kagaj dikha denge.
Kuch garib /kam jankari wale log shayad na dikha payein. Assam mein jab NRC lagu kiya to musalmanon se jyada hindu phas gaye. Isse sarkar ka rajennetik maqsad poora nai hua to woh CA laye taaki hindu isme na fase
Isiliye NRC se jyada important discussion CAA ka hai. Jo hindu Ziya ul haq ke time par bharat nai aaya woh imran khan ke time par kyun aayega. Aur agar aana chahta hai to sarkar kisi ki bhi nagrikta de sakti hai. CAA border paar wale hindu ke liye nai hai yahan baithe un hinduon ke liye hai jinke papers poore na ho. Taaki Assam wala episode repeat na ho. ye.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Tau tumhe desi bhasha mein samjhata hun.
On paper CAA bana hai forign Hindus ke liye thik hai. Aur iska NRC se koi lena dena nai hai.
Ib baat yo se ki NRC mein sarkar sabke pichwade mein ghus jayegi ki apni citizen ship saabit karo. Theek hai.?? Jyadatar log chahe hindu chahe musalman apne kagaj dikha denge.
Kuch garib /kam jankari wale log shayad na dikha payein. Assam mein jab NRC lagu kiya to musalmanon se jyada hindu phas gaye. Isse sarkar ka rajennetik maqsad poora nai hua to woh CA laye taaki hindu isme na fase
Isiliye NRC se jyada important discussion CAA ka hai. Jo hindu Ziya ul haq ke time par bharat nai aaya woh imran khan ke time par kyun aayega. Aur agar aana chahta hai to sarkar kisi ki bhi nagrikta de sakti hai. CAA border paar wale hindu ke liye nai hai yahan baithe un hinduon ke liye hai jinke papers poore na ho. Taaki Assam wala episode repeat na ho. ye.

English please. Explain how CAA affects even one indian citizen. Simple question and answer in english only.

 

[Itachi]

Tau tumhe desi bhasha mein samjhata hun.
On paper CAA bana hai forign Hindus ke liye thik hai. Aur iska NRC se koi lena dena nai hai.
Ib baat yo se ki NRC mein sarkar sabke pichwade mein ghus jayegi ki apni citizen ship saabit karo. Theek hai.?? Jyadatar log chahe hindu chahe musalman apne kagaj dikha denge.
Kuch garib /kam jankari wale log shayad na dikha payein. Assam mein jab NRC lagu kiya to musalmanon se jyada hindu phas gaye. Isse sarkar ka rajennetik maqsad poora nai hua to woh CA laye taaki hindu isme na fase
Isiliye NRC se jyada important discussion CAA ka hai. Jo hindu Ziya ul haq ke time par bharat nai aaya woh imran khan ke time par kyun aayega. Aur agar aana chahta hai to sarkar kisi ki bhi nagrikta de sakti hai. CAA border paar wale hindu ke liye nai hai yahan baithe un hinduon ke liye hai jinke papers poore na ho. Taaki Assam wala episode repeat na ho. ye.

In PP, it is advised to use English only and occasionally Urdu when it's appropriate.

And coming to subject of Assam, I am Assamese. Not one person in assam objected to NRC. Rather it was the demand of the people across the state.

There were some inconvenience to us, yes. But for greater good, all were willing to face it regardless of religion.

I went through it and my aunt faced some issues due to legacy code. But she was more than willing enough to co operate with the authority in different stages of verification.

You are talking about NRC Assam without even going through it and reading from articles only.

 

[ftbno1]

Let me answer you when NRC was conducted in Assam more Hindus were caught then Muslims. Their may be many reasons for that but as per the gov.they are illegal migrants. Now this was not satisfactory for BJP because they didn't want to send all illegal migrants but just Muslims so they brought CAA.
Are you getting me?? If a muslim comes in India from Bangladesh due to due to economic hardship he is an illegal but if a Hindu comes for same reason he is a an asylum seeker.
Now this problem manly in North East so their was no need for this whole nation. Further govt. has convinoently not stated the SOPs or ovds for NRC as their intention was only to instigate rather then resolution.
This axe is hanging over the head of every minority which will fall as per the political timing and convenience of Govt.
Their will surely be poor, uneducated or less aware Hindus and muslims who are genuinely Indian but will fail to provide documents. Hindus will be spared by CAA.

 

[ftbno1]

Tell me one thing is it not true more hindus failed in providing documents then Muslims??

 

[Itachi]

Let me answer you when NRC was conducted in Assam more Hindus were caught then Muslims. Their may be many reasons for that but as per the gov.they are illegal migrants. Now this was not satisfactory for BJP because they didn't want to send all illegal migrants but just Muslims so they brought CAA.
Are you getting me?? If a muslim comes in India from Bangladesh due to due to economic hardship he is an illegal but if a Hindu comes for same reason he is a an asylum seeker.
Now this problem manly in North East so their was no need for this whole nation. Further govt. has convinoently not stated the SOPs or ovds for NRC as their intention was only to instigate rather then resolution.
This axe is hanging over the head of every minority which will fall as per the political timing and convenience of Govt.
Their will surely be poor, uneducated or less aware Hindus and muslims who are genuinely Indian but will fail to provide documents. Hindus will be spared by CAA.

Let's take your assumption as fact and proceed.

How CAA affects any Indian minority or makes any discrimination to any non hindu living in India?

 

[Itachi]

Tell me one thing is it not true more hindus failed in providing documents then Muslims??

Its "than". Not "then".

the main issues that faced was, 1951 voter list wasn't as detailed as it should have been because in villages, there were lots of cases where people used multiple names and there was difficulty in establishing the lineage. The same legacy code was used by multiple families and hence discrepancy did arise.

That's why on the next stage, personal interviews were set to review such cases. More people faced difficulty not because of lack of documentation but because post independence, the voter list wasn't as comprehensive as it is now which is understandable as times were different back then.

 

[ftbno1]

If you are conceding that point let me ask you why should any Assamese hindu who is failing in NRC should be treated differently from a Muslim.
I hope problem is economic not religious.
Further you are making this discussion about NRC-CAA as core of the issue while issue is polarization.
I can understand you shying away from expressing your true feelings this being PP.

 

[Itachi]

If you are conceding that point let me ask you why should any Assamese hindu who is failing in NRC should be treated differently from a Muslim.
I hope problem is economic not religious.
Further you are making this discussion about NRC-CAA as core of the issue while issue is polarization.
I can understand you shying away from expressing your true feelings this being PP.

NRC never made any criteria of religion. None said a hindu should be treated differently than a Muslim. I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[ftbno1]

I concede you know more about your state than I do mama. Thanks for condescension BTW.
As I told you NRC without CAA is an extensive census.
Watch the video of Amit shah. Try to understand his implications.

 

[ftbno1]

NRC never made any criteria of religion. None said a hindu should be treated differently than a Muslim. I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

I agree but if Hindus failing in NRC can be relieved through CAA it defeats the purpose of curbing illegal migration. Why should a hindu migrant bangladeshi be treated differently from Muslim one??

 

[ftbno1]

NRC never made any criteria of religion. None said a hindu should be treated differently than a Muslim. I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

Tell me one thing? Do you support CAA in Assam??

 

[Itachi]

I concede you know more about your state than I do mama. Thanks for condescension BTW.
As I told you NRC without CAA is an extensive census.
Watch the video of Amit shah. Try to understand his implications.

I don't go through what people speaks. I go through what's written in document because when it comes to execution, it'll be the bill that will matter and not what someone speaks of.

If you could provide the bill, I'll be happy to look at.

 

[Itachi]

Tell me one thing? Do you support CAA in Assam??

You haven't answered any of my previous questions. Why should you expect others to answer?

If CC asks, I'll be happy to answer.

 

[ftbno1]

What previous question have I not answered?? Ha ha ha. This is getting funny. I have covered number of issues while you are struck in Draft Draft Draft.
I have given you video of Amit Shah giving his whole game plan linking NRC to CAA.
You don't need to answer we both know the truth.

 

[Itachi]

Let's take your assumption as fact and proceed.

How CAA affects any Indian minority or makes any discrimination to any non hindu living in India?

Answer this. I've asked long ago.

 

[ftbno1]

It affects us because it give citizens to foreign nationals without due process. Why should we accept any foreigner even if he is a Hindu. Only anti national would support such bill. Why should I as tax paying citizen take burden on millions of bamgladeshi, pakistani Hindus who get automatic citzenship.

 

[ftbno1]

Now you answer do you support CAA in Assam

 

[CricketCartoons]

It affects us because it give citizens to foreign nationals without due process. Why should we accept any foreigner even if he is a Hindu. Only anti national would support such bill. Why should I as tax paying citizen take burden on millions of bamgladeshi, pakistani Hindus who get automatic citzenship.

What is the number of refugees who would get citizenship under CAA. You said millions? Where is the source. You are so ignorant, it is not even funny. For a moment I took you seriously after the thread title, but what a massive let down you have been.

 

[ftbno1]

So their are no millions of refugees in India. Ok! So why the hell do we need NRC.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So their are no millions of refugees in India. Ok! So why the hell do we need NRC.

Show the source which says how many are eligible for citizenship under CAA.

Also you support deportation of rohingyas?

 

[ftbno1]

I believe in process of asylum where foreign office decides on case by case basis.
Further problem of illegal immigration is econmic in nature not religious.
Let's assume their are 10 lakh hindu illegals and 10 lakh Muslim illegal. CAA will give automatic citizenship to Hindus. That is whole purpose of law.
For me we have to fair either all should leave or all should stay. Why the difference??
You keep asking sources. What do you believe CAA is for? 15-20 families?

 

[CricketCartoons]

I believe in process of asylum where foreign office decides on case by case basis.
Further problem of illegal immigration is econmic in nature not religious.
Let's assume their are 10 lakh hindu illegals and 10 lakh Muslim illegal. CAA will give automatic citizenship to Hindus. That is whole purpose of law.
For me we have to fair either all should leave or all should stay. Why the difference??
You keep asking sources. What do you believe CAA is for? 15-20 families?

CAA prefers minorities. Many indian laws prefers minorities. I am ignorant. You show the source about the number of eligibles under CAA. You said millions, where did you get this number from.

What a pathetic liar you are. Not able to provide data for any of the statements you make.

Such a big letdown after creating this thread.

Simple question: How many eligibles under CAA and the draft for pan india NRC.

 

[ftbno1]

As told by Honrable Home Minister sahib. CAA will happen after NRC. Then we will know the numbers of illegals.
Again the I believe their are millions of illegals in India because BJP leaders keep harping about it and NRC was brought (atleast in theory) to curb this problem.
Keep trolling please.
I am loving it.

 

[ftbno1]

Whatever happens I will never be let down. Will satisfy you in every way possible.

 

[CricketCartoons]

As told by Honrable Home Minister sahib. CAA will happen after NRC. Then we will know the numbers of illegals.
Again the I believe their are millions of illegals in India because BJP leaders keep harping about it and NRC was brought (atleast in theory) to curb this problem.
Keep trolling please.
I am loving it.

CAA will happen before NRC, not after NRC. You are lying through your teeth. You certainly have monopoly over falsehood.

Repeating my question: How many eligibles under CAA and the draft for pan india NRC.