Does Pakistan deserve a 5-match Test series more than India in England?

[MoJoJoJo]

India last toured England in 2014 when they lost the 5 match test series 3-1. They are again 3-1 down in the ongoing 5 match series.

Pakistan toured England in 2016, when they drew the 4 match series 2-2. In in 2018, result was same as of 2016 when they drew the series 1-1 in 2 match series.

In last 5 years:
India played 9 matches, Won 2, Lost 6 and draw 1.
Pakistan played 6, Won 3 and Lost 3.

So does Pakistan deserve a 5-match Test series more than India in England?
Discuss!

 

[Pete Rose]

The question should be whether England deserves a five match series

 

[ARK Rafay]

Absolutely. If not more than India. Pakistan definitely deserves a 5 match series in England.

 

[gazza619]

The question should be whether England deserves a five match series

Yeah fair point. They have put out of jail time and time again by tail enders

 

[InziRules]

Money determines who deserves what. Indian series has more money in it

 

[gazza619]

To be honest i am not a fan of 5 test match series. It eats too much time and other teams dont get a fair chance to play quality opponents

 

[ipl_fan]

Only the money from the market decides who deserves what. You want me to spell out who deserves what ??

 

[Mamoon]

Number 1 ranked team deserves a longer series than the number 7 ranked team.

 

[Hasan123]

No. Historically we haven't been a great test team. England vs India shouldn't be a 5 test series anyway.

 

[Buffet]

It has been fantastic series. Pakistan deserving 5 tests doesn't have to depend on other series. Pakistan should never play 2 tests.

 

[Mohammad zuber]

Number 1 ranked team deserves a longer series than the number 7 ranked team.

Exactly pakistan fans needs to calm down
The are forgetting how English team destroyed pak team in 2ndtest

 

[barah_admi]

Exactly pakistan fans needs to calm down
The are forgetting how English team destroyed pak team in 2ndtest

India have been walloped 3 times.

Anyway, Pakistan and India are about par in terms of ticket sales in England and audience on Sky. In fact, this particular series had such poor ticket sales it was widely reported across the press, with Sky scrambling to put a twist on it.

Pakistan v England should be 5 tests.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

YES but PCB is more interested in T20 than TEST

 

[Balthazar]

It has got to do with the cricketing history between the teams, just like Ashes. England don't play 5 Test match series with any other team.

 

[The_Odd_One]

5 tests are too many. Both India and Pakistan should not play more than 3 tests.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Dont think any test series including ashes is worthy of 5 match series. Most test series should be 3 maximum. Maybe 4 on odd occasion.

 

[Robert]

Yes, I think Pakistan on current form should get more tests than India.

 

[Mamoon]

I don’t think our fans would be keen to go far with this logic. If this is the case, Pakistan does not deserve even a single match in Australia.

 

[Robert]

Dont think any test series including ashes is worthy of 5 match series. Most test series should be 3 maximum. Maybe 4 on odd occasion.

Hands off our Ashes! We used to play six tests not five!

It's a bit different these days because so few tests are drawn. In less recent times a five yest series would be necessary to decide a series as it might be 1-0 or 1-1 going into the fifth test.

 

[Mohammad zuber]

India have been walloped 3 times.


Anyway, Pakistan and India are about par in terms of ticket sales in England and audience on Sky. In fact, this particular series had such poor ticket sales it was widely reported across the press, with Sky scrambling to put a twist on it.

Pakistan v England should be 5 tests.

India only surrenderd in 2ndtest only
Other 2tests are very competitive i think you are not watching this series

 

[Mohammad zuber]

Yes, I think Pakistan on current form should get more tests than India.

Ofcourse the legendary team that can't beat a weak srilankan team at home and ranked at 7 team deserves more than no1 team

 

[Mohammad zuber]

I don’t think our fans would be keen to go far with this logic. If this is the case, Pakistan does not deserve even a single match in Australia.

You are the only who deserves a big salute from me on this forum
Pak fans are very arrogant on this forum

 

[kuskash]

Pakistan also deserves 5 test series in AUS.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes we do absolutely no doubt about it. The PCB and ECB should get together to arrange a biggie! I am waiting!

 

[Mamoon]

You are the only who deserves a big salute from me on this forum
Pak fans are very arrogant on this forum

Thank you for the kind words. Our fans here go through a repeating cycle - they get arrogant and overrate their team, before they are humbled by a reality check.

 

[saeed5646]

Ofcourse the legendary team that can't beat a weak srilankan team at home and ranked at 7 team deserves more than no1 team

the legendary team will back to number 3 in test ranking in next 2 month after toasting nz and aus at home.we lost a test series to asian team while you lost to non asian team who sucks in asia england in 2012 which is more embarrassing than that

 

[Finisher]

Number 1 ranked team deserves a longer series than the number 7 ranked team.

Belgium were ranked worlds number 1 football team, would you say their a better team then the likes of France -Germany-France

 

[kuskash]

the legendary team will back to number 3 in test ranking in next 2 month after toasting nz and aus at home.we lost a test series to asian team while you lost to non asian team who sucks in asia england in 2012 which is more embarrassing than that

Results of 2012 does not count in current rankings unfortunately

 

[kuskash]

Yes we do absolutely no doubt about it. The PCB and ECB should get together to arrange a biggie! I am waiting!

ECB may not do it, it would loss lots of money. Schedule does not work on emotions, its a business

 

[saeed5646]

Results of 2012 does not count in current rankings unfortunately

what ever that means

i would rather lose a test series to asian team like SL than the england who are terrible in asia.

 

[Mamoon]

Belgium were ranked worlds number 1 football team, would you say their a better team then the likes of France -Germany-France

How is this comparison relevant, and in what context?

 

[kuskash]

what ever that means

i would rather lose a test series to asian team like SL than the england who are terrible in asia.

In that case Ind also lost to Pak at home by 1-0 in 1987. Ind should never be #1 considering that result as well.

 

[Finisher]

How is this comparison relevant, and in what context?

Are Belgium better then the rest of them team's, they're ranked 2nd in fifa rankings.

 

[Mamoon]

Are Belgium better then the rest of them team's, they're ranked 2nd in fifa rankings.

Are you implying that India is Belgium of cricket, while Pakistan is Germany/France?

 

[saeed5646]

In that case Ind also lost to Pak at home by 1-0 in 1987. Ind should never be #1 considering that result as well.

1987 was 31 year ago while the result i am talking is 6 year old .huge difference in 6 and 31

 

[the_outsider]

5 test series have more to do than history.

Pakistan usually plays 4 test series against England, which is the max number of tests for any series usually.

Pakistan had to play a 2 match series this year because PCB couldn't afford anything more. Plain and simple.

India vs England and Ashes are the only 2 series that has always been played as 5 series matches.

West Indies used to also play 5 test series with England and Australia until the 90s. But after their cricket board became financially weak they could no longer afford it.

No other series be it India vs Australia or Pak vs Eng or India vs SA is played with more than 4 matches.

 

[kuskash]

1987 was 31 year ago while the result i am talking is 6 year old .huge difference in 6 and 31

Yes Sir, what ever suits your criteria. Pak lost to SL 11 months ago and your are talking about something 6 years old? Is not it a big difference between <1 year and more than 6 years ago?

 

[Finisher]

Are you implying that India is Belgium of cricket, while Pakistan is Germany/France?

Not implying anything, my question is simple.
Fifa rankings have been getting changed to give a accurate result for number 1 team. ICC Should do the same. More Weightage for away wins and draws.

 

[the_outsider]

1987 was 31 year ago while the result i am talking is 6 year old .huge difference in 6 and 31

As a cricket fan surely you must know how exactly the ranking system works, don't you?

The ranking system works in 4 year cycles.

You can talk about 6 years ago and the other poster can talk about 31 years ago and both those series are equally meaningless to current rankings.

 

[saeed5646]

Yes Sir, what ever suits your criteria. Pak lost to SL 11 months ago and your are talking about something 6 years old? Is not it a big difference between <1 year and more than 6 years ago?

your math seems to be not good.6 year old data can be legemet with 1 year old rather 1987 with 2012

 

[saeed5646]

As a cricket fan surely you must know how exactly the ranking system works, don't you?

The ranking system works in 4 year cycles.

You can talk about 6 years ago and the other poster can talk about 31 years ago and both those series are equally meaningless to current rankings.

where did i say it do or not effect the ranking all i am saying and will repeat again

i would rather lose a test series to asian team like SL than the england who are terrible in asia.

 

[MenInG]

5 test series have more to do than history.

Pakistan usually plays 4 test series against England, which is the max number of tests for any series usually.

Pakistan had to play a 2 match series this year because PCB couldn't afford anything more. Plain and simple.

India vs England and Ashes are the only 2 series that has always been played as 5 series matches.

West Indies used to also play 5 test series with England and Australia until the 90s. But after their cricket board became financially weak they could no longer afford it.

No other series be it India vs Australia or Pak vs Eng or India vs SA is played with more than 4 matches.

This is what is being asked.

In light of India's poor performance in England, and Pakistan's better performance would it not be better for audiences to allow them to play 5 match series so they provide some good competition.

 

[cricketerB94]

Number 1 ranked team deserves a longer series than the number 7 ranked team.

This reminds me of Bangladeshi fans when Pakistan team was in transition in ODIs and they used the rankings for chest thumping.

 

[Mamoon]

This reminds me of Bangladeshi fans when Pakistan team was in transition in ODIs and they used the rankings for chest thumping.

Barring a month in 2016, India have been above Pakistan in Test rankings for pretty much the entire millennium. Could you not think of a worse analogy?

 

[USofA]

The PCB cuts the number of tests it plays to accommodate other formats. It has done so in the past and is going to do it in the upcoming series. So, no 5 test series. At this rate even 3 test series will be surprising.

The PCB's focus is firmly on T20's.

 

[Itachi]

Everyone forgetting the main question....

Who brings more money? If pak brought more, PCB wouldn't have a horrific ftp to start with.

 

[the_outsider]

Not implying anything, my question is simple.
Fifa rankings have been getting changed to give a accurate result for number 1 team. ICC Should do the same. More Weightage for away wins and draws.

Well considering that in the last 4 year cycle Pakistan has 8 wins + 1 draw = 9 and India has 9 wins + 5 draws = 14 in away games India would still be much higher up in the rankings.

In fact, no team has more wins and wins + draws in away games than India has in the last 4 years.

And India's W/L ratio at home is the best in the world for the last 4 years.

So even by your system of giving more weightage to away games, India would still be the deserved number 1 team in the world.

 

[Mamoon]

Not implying anything, my question is simple.
Fifa rankings have been getting changed to give a accurate result for number 1 team. ICC Should do the same. More Weightage for away wins and draws.

India would be above Pakistan in the rankings no matter what metric or criteria is used.

 

[kuskash]

your math seems to be not good.6 year old data can be legemet with 1 year old rather 1987 with 2012

Yeah right, aap ke Math aur school ko salam!!! Math becomes relevant only when it suits your criteria.

 

[Finisher]

Well considering that in the last 4 year cycle Pakistan has 8 wins + 1 draw = 9 and India has 9 wins + 5 draws = 14 in away games India would still be much higher up in the rankings.

In fact, no team has more wins and wins + draws in away games than India has in the last 4 years.

And India's W/L ratio at home is the best in the world for the last 4 years.

So even by your system of giving more weightage to away games, India would still be the deserved number 1 team in the world.

How many are in England Aus South Africa

 

[Finisher]

India would be above Pakistan in the rankings no matter what metric or criteria is used.

At the end of the day India have lost the series.
Send a Pakistan team ranked 10th and they'd still do better then India against England

 

[kuskash]

How many are in England Aus South Africa

When ENG/AUS/SA were number 1, no one had raised the question of how many tests they won in India?

 

[kuskash]

At the end of the day India have lost the series.
Send a Pakistan team ranked 10th and they'd still do better then India against England

So performance only in ENG should be counted? should we consider Pak’s performance in AUS/SA as well please?

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

well technically Pakistan has already played 6 tests in span of two years which is good I reckon there should have been another test in second series whereas India is touring after four years.

 

[Mohammad zuber]

the legendary team will back to number 3 in test ranking in next 2 month after toasting nz and aus at home.we lost a test series to asian team while you lost to non asian team who sucks in asia england in 2012 which is more embarrassing than that

Pakistan legends misbah and younis draw with legandary Zimbabwean team
How about that seriesvs Zimbabwe

 

[Mamoon]

At the end of the day India have lost the series.
Send a Pakistan team ranked 10th and they'd still do better then India against England

Even India U-19 won’t lose a home Test to West Indies or a home series to Sri Lanka.

There is more to cricket than winning at Lord’s or Oval. India does better in most countries and that is why they are 1st and we are 7th.

 

[Mohammad zuber]

Even India U-19 won’t lose a home Test to West Indies or a home series to Sri Lanka.

There is more to cricket than winning at Lord’s or Oval. India does better in most countries and that is why they are 1st and we are 7th.

How can pakistan fans behave with this much arrogance you cant beat a deplated srilankan team and they think they are world beaters

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Why not? They played 4 tests in 2016 and drew that series by 2-2. Pakistan play their best cricket in England. Would love to see a 5 match test series between England and Pakistan.

 

[Mohammad zuber]

At the end of the day India have lost the series.
Send a Pakistan team ranked 10th and they'd still do better then India against England

You can't beat deplated Zimbabwe in away series and talking about pakistani 10th ranked team

 

[Robert]

I think the current Pakistan side would have beaten England over five tests.

 

[Finisher]

Even India U-19 won’t lose a home Test to West Indies or a home series to Sri Lanka.

There is more to cricket than winning at Lord’s or Oval. India does better in most countries and that is why they are 1st and we are 7th.

Yes playing the first series without its leading runscorer and the captain with the most tes wins was going to be easy.
Let's not forget India also lost a home series to England.
At least Sri Lankans play in similar conditions.

There is more to cricket then rankings and playing well in adelaide

 

[Darkrai]

If Eng, SA, Aus kept playing home series i'm sure they would be number 1 in no time as well. Even SL could achieve that feat no doubt. Pakistan did it while playing in UAE, not even their home. My point is test rankings are meaningless. It all depends on how many home series a team plays. To suggest India deserves more tests because they are number 1 doesn't make sense. When you also consider their last two series in Eng were disastrous.

Considering each test is 5 days long 5 match series becomes way too long. 3 tests are enough, especially when you also have ODIs and T20Is.

 

[Titan24]

5 tests are too much for any team as I have rarely seen a team 0-2 down in first two and went on to win the series 3-2 so whats the point of humiliating the opposition on any tour for 5 matches while 2 are too less to show which team is better.

Standard should be of 3 tests.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Yes but cricket tours aren't based on ability but rather on marketability.

Same reason why PAK hosts WI, SL, NZ in UAE but not not Bangladesh.

 

[slipcatch]

No, 3 tests are more than enough anything less than 3 tests shouldn’t be allow.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

This reminds me of Bangladeshi fans when Pakistan team was in transition in ODIs and they used the rankings for chest thumping.

Thats because Bangladesh was also in transition. In fact BD team was in transition from 2000-2015. Its only been the last couple of years they've had their core group intact.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes playing the first series without its leading runscorer and the captain with the most tes wins was going to be easy.
Let's not forget India also lost a home series to England.
At least Sri Lankans play in similar conditions.

There is more to cricket then rankings and playing well in adelaide

If Eng, SA, Aus kept playing home series i'm sure they would be number 1 in no time as well. Even SL could achieve that feat no doubt. Pakistan did it while playing in UAE, not even their home. My point is test rankings are meaningless. It all depends on how many home series a team plays. To suggest India deserves more tests because they are number 1 doesn't make sense. When you also consider their last two series in Eng were disastrous.

Considering each test is 5 days long 5 match series becomes way too long. 3 tests are enough, especially when you also have ODIs and T20Is.

The only thing that matters in Test cricket are the rankings. It is going to decide which two teams will get to play in the ICC Test Championship Final in 2021.

Teams that are not in the top two by the cut-off date will not able to win the Test Championship Trophy, so I hope it is now clear why the “meaningless” rankings are important.

The rankings will decide the Test Championship winner, not the verdict of the PPers and their hypothetical scenarios, qualifications and filters.

However, PPers can play a fantasy ICC Test Championship Final between Pakistan and some other team, whenever and wherever they want.

It is also pertinent to point out that the notion that England, Australia and South Africa would be number one if they keep playing at home is a myth.

No team is as dominant at home as India as, they have won every series in the last 5 years. No other team can boast such a record.

Pakistan did get to the top of the rankings for a few weeks thanks to a washout Test between India and the West Indies, but they blew it by losing 6 consecutive Tests to Australia, New Zealand and the West Indies, and they don’t have anyone to blame for.

It is also important to point out that our home record in Pakistan has been trash since the 90’s, and playing our home Tests in the UAE has actually benefited our batsmen.

The UAE pitches have nothing for the pacers, and teams like England, Australia and South Africa would have enjoyed more success in Pakistan where you often get green wickets or overcast conditions, which are nowhere to be found in the UAE.

So to summarize what I stated:

- the rankings are not meaningless because they will decide who qualifies for the ICC Test Championship Final.

- the opinions of PPers will not influence what happens in the real world. However, They can host their very own fantasy Test Championship and declare Pakistan the winner for their self-satisfaction.

- India are the rightful number one ranked team because they are the most dominant home team by far.

- Pakistan would have lost a lot more home Tests if we would not have shifted our home matches to the UAE.

 

[saeed5646]

Pakistan legends misbah and younis draw with legandary Zimbabwean team
How about that series&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;vs Zimbabwe

still that team draw a test series in eng 2-2 2016 unlike india who is thrash by england and verge of 4-1 yet again in eng

by the way your legend like tendulkar,VVS and dravid can lose a test to them we can efford to lose

 

[Canford Cliffs]

still that team draw a test series in eng 2-2 2016 unlike india who is thrash by england and verge of 4-1 yet again in eng

by the way your legend like tendulkar,VVS and dravid can lose a test to them we can efford to lose

View attachment 83742

View attachment 83741

Comparing Zimbabwe of 2001 with 2014?

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

No team(Ashes should be) should play
5 match series, including India.

I don't want to see my team getting humiliated this way.

We've been beaten left, right, centre, top, bottom, diagonal.

Next time we should play just 3 match series. We may very well draw the series, or even win it 2-1.

 

[Mamoon]

I have a question for those who think that India does not deserve 5 Tests in England because of their recent record.

How many matches do you think Pakistan deserves in Australia, after losing 12 consecutive matches?

At least India won a series in England in 2007.

The last time Pakistan won a match in Australia - let alone a series - was in 1996. They have lost every match since, and have not even been able to draw a single game.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

I have a question for those who think that India does not deserve 5 Tests in England because of their recent record.

How many matches do you think Pakistan deserves in Australia, after losing 12 consecutive matches?

At least India won a series in England in 2007.

The last time Pakistan won a match in Australia - let alone a series - was in 1996. They have lost every match since, and have not even been able to draw a single game.

The last time Pakistan won a series in Eng was also in 90s.

 

[Mamoon]

The last time Pakistan won a series in Eng was also in 90s.

Yes, but we have done well in London venues.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

No team(Ashes should be) should play
5 match series, including India.

I don't want to see my team getting humiliated this way.

We've been beaten left, right, centre, top, bottom, diagonal.

Next time we should play just 3 match series. We may very well draw the series, or even win it 2-1.

Think you are overreating. The humiliation was in 2011 and in 2014. This series was far from humiliation. Indian team have fought tooth and nail in every test (bar Lords). They failed to capitalise the crucial moments and hence the scoreline shows 3-1. Today Nasser Hussain was mentioning the same thing in comm box, that many others teams after 4 tests would hv just folded, especially after losing the series. But this Indian team comes back hard every day (he was mentioning the fight back by Vihari and Jadeja).

This series is not a humiliation at all. We just need to kick out few players and should be fine.

 

[Darkrai]

The only thing that matters in Test cricket are the rankings. It is going to decide which two teams will get to play in the ICC Test Championship Final in 2021.

Teams that are not in the top two by the cut-off date will not able to win the Test Championship Trophy, so I hope it is now clear why the “meaningless” rankings are important.

The rankings will decide the Test Championship winner, not the verdict of the PPers and their hypothetical scenarios, qualifications and filters.

However, PPers can play a fantasy ICC Test Championship Final between Pakistan and some other team, whenever and wherever they want.

It is also pertinent to point out that the notion that England, Australia and South Africa would be number one if they keep playing at home is a myth.

No team is as dominant at home as India as, they have won every series in the last 5 years. No other team can boast such a record.

Pakistan did get to the top of the rankings for a few weeks thanks to a washout Test between India and the West Indies, but they blew it by losing 6 consecutive Tests to Australia, New Zealand and the West Indies, and they don’t have anyone to blame for.

It is also important to point out that our home record in Pakistan has been trash since the 90’s, and playing our home Tests in the UAE has actually benefited our batsmen.

The UAE pitches have nothing for the pacers, and teams like England, Australia and South Africa would have enjoyed more success in Pakistan where you often get green wickets or overcast conditions, which are nowhere to be found in the UAE.

So to summarize what I stated:

- the rankings are not meaningless because they will decide who qualifies for the ICC Test Championship Final.

- the opinions of PPers will not influence what happens in the real world. However, They can host their very own fantasy Test Championship and declare Pakistan the winner for their self-satisfaction.

- India are the rightful number one ranked team because they are the most dominant home team by far.

- Pakistan would have lost a lot more home Tests if we would not have shifted our home matches to the UAE.

Test ranking have been meaningless because there hasn't been a test championship so far. And if ICC does not make a proper fair home and away schedule then it will be flawed, which is nothing new in cricket.

Pakistan players do not grow up playing in UAE, they grow up playing in Pakistan. Our pacers do not get any help in UAE either. Our strength has always been our fast bowlers.

You really think Eng, Aus, and SA would not be able to become number 1 even if they kept playing home series? I think you need to throw away your bias think more clearly.

When Pakistan was number 1 would you have said they deserve to play more tests than India in Aus? According to you India deserve it because they are number 1. Do not say India deserved it because they have better record than Pakistan in Aus because i can say the same about Pakistan's record in Eng.

 

[MenInG]

I have a question for those who think that India does not deserve 5 Tests in England because of their recent record.

How many matches do you think Pakistan deserves in Australia, after losing 12 consecutive matches?

At least India won a series in England in 2007.

The last time Pakistan won a match in Australia - let alone a series - was in 1996. They have lost every match since, and have not even been able to draw a single game.

that is another thread.

Is Australia in England?

Can you kindly stick to the topic and stop playing for the galleries.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Think you are overreating. The humiliation was in 2011 and in 2014. This series was far from humiliation. Indian team have fought tooth and nail in every test (bar Lords). They failed to capitalise the crucial moments and hence the scoreline shows 3-1. Today Nasser Hussain was mentioning the same thing in comm box, that many others teams after 4 tests would hv just folded, especially after losing the series. But this Indian team comes back hard every day (he was mentioning the fight back by Vihari and Jadeja).

This series is not a humiliation at all. We just need to kick out few players and should be fine.

Look, for me losing the series is not humiliation but, missing the most easy chance is.

This has been the worst English side and, this is the first time all of ours bowlers gave everything they can(most of the times). But, still we couldn't win.

I predicted 4-1, min 3-2 after Pak-Eng series, thinking if an upcoming and an average team like Pakistan can beat them in 1/2, I thought us(being #1 with experienced players) to win atleast 3-2. But,... That's why I am calling this as humiliation.

If you are talking about competing, yes, we did compete well(apart from Lord's).

 

[Darkrai]

Yes, but we have done well in London venues.

Last time i checked London was part of Eng. Why don't you also point out how we won in certain months or time of the year, or how the weather was different. Talk about lame excuses.

 

[Logical]

Pakistan being ranked #7 has everything to do with Misbah's mediocrity than anything else. Current team has a lot more potential and are certainly going in the right direction.

 

[Ab Fan]

But then using this logic:-

England dont deserve 5 tests in India

SA dont deserve 4 tests in India

NZ dont deserve 3 tests in India

SL also dont deserve any test series in india