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Does Pakistan's pace attack look ordinary without Mohammad Amir?

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Sajjad-007

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No real threat without Amir I think.Last match pacers bowled very badly.Its a sign of concern.
 
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Pak bowling attack is really ordinary and with all calls of Inzimam being revolutionary he still brings back Sohail Khan and I am shocked that Umar Gul didn't make a return in the squad
 
Amir is the best LOI bowler in the world. Obviously his absence will be felt. Last match we even missed our second best bowler Hasan. We were playing our C grade bowling attack and still stretched the match to the last ball.


There really is no equivalent to Pakistani bowling in world cricket.
 
Amir is probably one of the best LOI bowlers in the world and was sorely missed in the first two games. His absence just reminds me of the dark days of the pak fast bowling between 2010-2016. We really are an ordinary bowling unit without him.
 
Not just amir although he is the best LOI of aver in the world imo but this should be our pace bowling line-up

Amir
Hasan
Junaid
Rumman (12th man)
 
Pakistan have been an ordinary bowling unit post 2009 itself, Yes they have had some success like against India in India in 2012 and again in CT 2017 final but overall it has been toothless even with Amir. Rumman huffing and puffing his way through to maintain an avg of 129-131 kph is a pain to see from the country of Shoaib
 
joly said:
Pakistan have been an ordinary bowling unit post 2009 itself, Yes they have had some success like against India in India in 2012 and again in CT 2017 final but overall it has been toothless even with Amir. Rumman huffing and puffing his way through to maintain an avg of 129-131 kph is a pain to see from the country of Shoaib
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You are mistaking Rumman as Sohail I guess
 
Amir is the heart of Pak bowling attack. Without him, the pace attack lacks venom. He may not grab a ton of wickets. But he keeps in check the scoring rate and the pressure on batsman means the bowler at the other end can have some easy pickings.

Rumman Raes is impressive. He should partner Amir in LOI games. Not sold on Junaid Khan. He is not as clever as Rumman.
 
troodon said:
Amir is the heart of Pak bowling attack. Without him, the pace attack lacks venom. He may not grab a ton of wickets. But he keeps in check the scoring rate and the pressure on batsman means the bowler at the other end can have some easy pickings.

Rumman Raes is impressive. He should partner Amir in LOI games. Not sold on Junaid Khan. He is not as clever as Rumman.
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Junaid Khan is even worse.He just had a purple patch during CT that too due to pressure from Amir from the other end otherwise watch PSL matches where he conceded 20+ runs in an over frequently
 
It did look toothless yesterday but it was a second string pace attack with no Amir or Ali. Probably an off day as the bowlers have done well since the Australia series.

Don't know if it was dew as Miller and Malik dropped sitters yesterday but Sohail Khan kept missing his yorker length and was serving one full toss after another. Even Raees was losing his control.

Sarfraz should allowed Nawaz to bowl his full quota and was harsh in giving Shinwari only one over.
 
Markhor said:
It did look toothless yesterday but it was a second string pace attack with no Amir or Ali. Probably an off day as the bowlers have done well since the Australia series.

Don't know if it was dew as Miller and Malik dropped sitters yesterday but Sohail Khan kept missing his yorker length and was serving one full toss after another. Even Raees was losing his control.

Sarfraz should allowed Nawaz to bowl his full quota and was harsh in giving Shinwari only one over.
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Not just yesterday, in the first match too the trio of pacers conceded 109 runs in 11 overs they bowled collectively, in which Hasan Ali went for 44 in 4 overs without taking a wicket.
 
Before commenting on the bowling talent, I was surprised to see the size of the boundary, the rope was atleast 20 m inside the actual fence on one of the sides.. Thisara Perera had a field day.. I'm not saying its the boundary's fault that we lost, but that was some seriously small boundaries on atleast Perera's leg side
 
1 over for Shinwari was harsh.

Add that to Sohail Khan's pathetic bowling and you have to wonder what the captain was playing at - what was he actually thinking.
 
troodon said:
Amir is the heart of Pak bowling attack. Without him, the pace attack lacks venom. He may not grab a ton of wickets. But he keeps in check the scoring rate and the pressure on batsman means the bowler at the other end can have some easy pickings.

Rumman Raes is impressive. He should partner Amir in LOI games. Not sold on Junaid Khan. He is not as clever as Rumman.
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Amir and Raees with new ball are better option than Junaid. Hasan is wild card with second change, Amir does not give any relaxing time to batsmen in any format, it helps Hasan to pick up wickets later in the game...

Major mistake yesterday were too many slow balls(slow ball is a variety option not main course of action) and missing the length at times, specially by Sohail...He really killed it in 19th over...He is too old and unfit for national squad...Sarfraz should have given more overs to US...

All our bowlers (Amir, Hasan, Raees) have good control on yorkers, which they need to rely upon in death overs rather than variety balls...Yorker is still the king, they need to trust that delivery...
 
Arsalan Pro said:
Not just yesterday, in the first match too the trio of pacers conceded 109 runs in 11 overs they bowled collectively, in which Hasan Ali went for 44 in 4 overs without taking a wicket.
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True but World XI strength is batting and on these flat Lahore pitches you can't expect too many miserly overs.

Plus these boundaries are insanely short and give no margin for error to the bowlers.
 
Markhor said:
True but World XI strength is batting and on these flat Lahore pitches you can't expect too many miserly overs.

Plus these boundaries are insanely short and give no margin for error to the bowlers.
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Add to that Mickey is our coach
 
Need to get Bashir in to partner Hasan and Amir. Enough of this trundler brigade. Mickey, get your act together.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
And Waqar isn't.
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My comment was just for hansi mazaq because [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] listed a million reasons for our ill-performance the other night. Why you guys always in fight mode? :kakmal
 
Mohammad Amir is one the best currently so yea of course Pakistan misses him. He is the guy who delivers under pressure.

We also missed Hassan Ali. He is become a key figure in our limited overs setup.
 
Lol at people thinking this was because Amir the hero wasn't there.

If he was playing Amla would've spanked him too.

Hasan was the key component.
 
joly said:
Pakistan have been an ordinary bowling unit post 2009 itself, Yes they have had some success like against India in India in 2012 and again in CT 2017 final but overall it has been toothless even with Amir. Rumman huffing and puffing his way through to maintain an avg of 129-131 kph is a pain to see from the country of Shoaib
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Best attack in the CT trophy by some distance; bowled out opponents for 200 something scores when 300 is considered par. And it was Hasan and Junaid and Wasim who did it. Amir only showed up in the final
 
Hasan ali is twice the bowler amir is and his performance proves it

the lack of respect that he gets from the fans and the way he is considered a support bowler to amir is disgusting
 
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I think, even Amir will struggle in PAK wickets, which are probably the most counter productive to an attack like PAK. The pacers & leggies are skillful with lots of variation but not the best when it comes to strict discipline to choke run making opportunities. That bowling skills are normalized with the worst type of wickets of it's kind - dead slow, low, devoid of any grass and that night dew isn't helping either. Besides, bowlers like Hasan or Sohail needs to pitch it up, which actually is the easiest ball on such surface. May be bowlers with extra pace an a bit of slingy action to move it fast in air can manage here, but these pacers including Raees (I am not impressed, but may be he'll improve - at present I'll take Rahat over him) won't do much on such surface.

In fact batting wise as well, don't think this is the beast track for PAK team. I keep telling that PAK's best wicket is Oval type of track - in a hope that in some days future, someone at PCB would realize that there is technical limitation in domestic resources. For this current series, they are hiding it by bringing the boundary in, but it's still a dead slow wicket where on the rise hitting is near impossible - players are struggling to clear 55 metre boundary. In 1st match, Amla played an in side out lofted, checked off drive - it looked unbelievable shot, because it reached fence at one bounce - actually, it bounced 45 metres from bat but extra cover boundary was so close that it raced at one bounce. Same shot on a faster track, would have cleared at least 65 metres.

I keep hearing PAK's record in PAK is .......; which actually indicates that posters don't study the records before posting. In last 25 years, PAK is by far the worst team at home, when we go beyond direct W/L - lost Test Series to almost everyone everyone, even ZIM at home with that team & before 2014, only Test that we made a match was against PAK in PAK. In ODI, result must be even poorer - lost series to IND twice, SRL, SAF, AUS .... only Series in last 20 years I can recall was probably against Poms (that too 3-2) & WI (still managed to lose a game). W/L looks better, because that W has at least 20 matches against ZIM & BD in this millennium. Otherwise 1-4 & 2-3 to IND, 0-3 to AUS, 2-3 (from 2-0) to SAF, at least twice 1-2 or 1-3 against SRL - absolute shocking results and most of those were with that team. It's bitter truth that 3/9 happened, otherwise that Test record of Misbah would have been utter embarrassment, while least said about ODI is better - even ZIM would have won one ODI without rain & other 2 times made PAK sweat, even after posting 370+.

Utter shambolic wickets, where probably the best bowlers will be Ajmal & MoHa of olden days - which tells everything for one who understands the game.
 
Saj said:
1 over for Shinwari was harsh.

Add that to Sohail Khan's pathetic bowling and you have to wonder what the captain was playing at - what was he actually thinking.
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Not to mention Raees' pathetic last over...
 
I don't think Amir is as good as he was before. I think Hassan Ali right now is a better bowler which is why Pakistan lost the last match, due to Ali's absence
 
Executioner said:
I don't think Amir is as good as he was before. I think Hassan Ali right now is a better bowler which is why Pakistan lost the last match, due to Ali's absence
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Hasan Ali's absence was not a issue at all, he played the first game and was the worst bowler out of all the bowlers from Pakistan going for 44 runs in the 4 overs he bowled without any wicket.
 
Suleiman said:
Lol at people thinking this was because Amir the hero wasn't there.

If he was playing Amla would've spanked him too.

Hasan was the key component.
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The key component was the worst bowler from the 1st match and was spanked for 44 runs of 4 overs by Faf and Co.
 
The fact that CT winners Amir, Junaid and Hassan all were not present and yet we still managed to hold our own against a Team that has Amla, Faf etc etc shows the actual depth of our attack.

Phainty was expected but this is how an attack and youngsters are developed, you don't just turn up in International cricket and expect to dominate from ball 1 ~ Realistically people that can serve us long term (Ruman + Shinwari + Amir + Juniad + Hassan) should be backed and rotated.

Unfortunately, the likes for Sohail, Irfan et al & people of that generation need to be shown the door and be limited to PSL / domestics only.
 
Rightarmfast said:
No, it doesnt. Pakistani bowling attack is mediocre at best, with or without Amir.
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Lol these guys just schooled the world in the Champions trophy .
An odd t20 on flat wickets does not make them mediocre .
Shami went for 50 odd runs in 3 overs vs the westindies . He must be terrible .
Hassan ali and Muhammad Amir are two of the best bowlers in the world presently and pretty much better than anyone India has ever produced . If they are mediocre than i dont know what that makes some of the other bowlers in the world .
 
Arsalan Pro said:
The present Starc, who has returned from injury and is again injured, isn't a better bowler than Amir currently.
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How so?

Amir has picked 18 wickets in 12 matches at avg of 30 in 2017.

Starc has picked 18 wickets in 9 matches at avg of 23 in 2017.

Of course if you want to consider only CT17 final (and not even whole tournament where he averaged 30), then he can easily be declared best in the world on basis of 1 match.

If anything Hasan Ali is much better LOI bowler than Amir atm.
 
No...not at all...
Hassan rumman sohail khan and even abbas... these all bowlers are really good...and if u add amir in this line..this becomes definitely world class..
Other countries also have not got mcgraths and denis lillies or wasim akram
 
One bad over doesnt mean that sohail khan is not good bowler..he is v.good bowler n has proved it everytime.. its his comeback.. n rumman is v v skilled bowler..in coming months he'll be the best t20 bowler of the world ...mark my words...v skillful...
 
It was just a exhibition kind of match and not much at stake...the purpose behind is much bigger than win or loss.. that's why not much homework done by bowlers..otherwise all the world knows that prera is v good on overpitch bowling and full tosses..but equally bad on fast short pitch bowling..but our bowlers gave him all the balls over pitched or full tosses.. which shows that there wasn't much home work done.. otherwise rumman specially is excellent t20 bowler skills wise
 
AlizeeFan said:
How so?

Amir has picked 18 wickets in 12 matches at avg of 30 in 2017.

Starc has picked 18 wickets in 9 matches at avg of 23 in 2017.

Of course if you want to consider only CT17 final (and not even whole tournament where he averaged 30), then he can easily be declared best in the world on basis of 1 match.

If anything Hasan Ali is much better LOI bowler than Amir atm.
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Amir bowled better than Starc in the Champions Trophy, as we shouldn't always look at the bowling average and rather at the impact those wickets leave.

Both Amir and Starc took 5 wickets each and Amir was more economical.

Amir took the wickets of Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan, Mathews and Dickwella.

Whereas Starc took the wickets of Tamim, Roy, Mehdi, Mashrafe and Rubel.

We can clearly see who took the more valuable wickets and left a heavier impact towards winning.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
Amir bowled better than Starc in the Champions Trophy, as we shouldn't always look at the bowling average and rather at the impact those wickets leave.

Both Amir and Starc took 5 wickets each and Amir was more economical.

Amir took the wickets of Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan, Mathews and Dickwella.

Whereas Starc took the wickets of Tamim, Roy, Mehdi, Mashrafe and Rubel.

We can clearly see who took the more valuable wickets and left a heavier impact towards winning.
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Starc played only 2 matches. Amir bowled well in final and that's it. He was otherwise missing whole year and in other maches of CT 17. Starc has been better than Amir this year as well as overall.
 
AlizeeFan said:
Starc played only 2 matches. Amir bowled well in final and that's it. He was otherwise missing whole year and in other maches of CT 17. Starc has been better than Amir this year as well as overall.
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Starc played 3 matches in the Champions Trophy and Amir 4, so only 1 match difference. Amir bowled well against Sri Lanka in the group game too and was also the best bowler until the first three Odis against Australia in Australia.
 
ethan hunt said:
Lol these guys just schooled the world in the Champions trophy .
An odd t20 on flat wickets does not make them mediocre .
Shami went for 50 odd runs in 3 overs vs the westindies . He must be terrible .
Hassan ali and Muhammad Amir are two of the best bowlers in the world presently and pretty much better than anyone India has ever produced . If they are mediocre than i dont know what that makes some of the other bowlers in the world .
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Shami is indeed an ordinary bowler. India's lack of ability to produce even mediocre-level pace bowlers make him look decent.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
Starc played 3 matches in the Champions Trophy and Amir 4, so only 1 match difference. Amir bowled well against Sri Lanka in the group game too and was also the best bowler until the first three Odis against Australia in Australia.
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Starc bowled in 2 only.
 
Such knee jerk reactions are pathetic...ppl forget that we bowled England out for 210 odd in the CT SF without Amir
 
Batting lineup pf England's calibre was rattled without Amir and that shows the depth of Pakistan's bowing.

I cant imagine any other team of the world playing without their three main fast bowlers and still looking competitive.

Pakistan didnt have Hassan, Amir and Junaid in the last match while Wahab and Tanvir are also proven T20 bowlers and Pak was without their services as well.

Yes Amir if not the best is one of the best bowlers of current era and any team will feel his absence but Pakistan's bowling depth minimizes the absence effect.

Study the facts and analyze the infromation before starting such threads.
 
If your thread would have been about Steyn that how absence hinders SA test wins and then you might have been able to prove something with facts and figures
 
Haz95 said:
Pakistan's second string attack is better than Bangladesh' first tier one. Rumman Raees is a better fizz than fizz hehe.
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Fizz isnt what we initially thought but he is still the most skillful in the game. He was showing all time legend potential but now will be merely great.
 
bujhee kom said:
Fizz isnt what we initially thought but he is still the most skillful in the history of the game. He was showing bonafide GOAT potential but now will be merely all time great.
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Yes Fizz after his smashing start has not been as immaculate however I think you're being harsh so I corrected what you wrote.
 
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