Does Rashid Khan have a jerk in his action?

[Nikhil_cric]

I know many believe that it is impossible for leg spinners to chuck the ball and this is true for his stock ball but Rashid has a very unique action for his googly. His arm actually goes beyond the vertical I've observed and it seems to me there is a jerk when he delivers the wrong 'un and that's how he generates pace on that lethal googly. Most leggies usually have a slower googly than their leg break. It is difficult to tell but do ppers think there is any straightening if the elbow involved? Discuss.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Can't say I've noticed it. Would be helpful if you can provide images to illustrate your point.

 

[Sherlock]

Nope, can't say I've noticed either.

 

[MMHS]

I know many believe that it is impossible for leg spinners to chuck the ball and this is true for his stock ball but Rashid has a very unique action for his googly. His arm actually goes beyond the vertical I've observed and it seems to me there is a jerk when he delivers the wrong 'un and that's how he generates pace on that lethal googly. Most leggies usually have a slower googly than their leg break. It is difficult to tell but do ppers think there is any straightening if the elbow involved? Discuss.

I guess you are talking about 2 balls against Mahmudullah yesterday. I did notice that time in slow mo replay, but can’t say with conviction. You can bowl with bent arm as long as it’s consistenly bent (not straightening more than 15d). Might be camera angel also.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

I have noticed it it. He is chucking. It's especially evident when he got Abu Haider out in yesterday game. See the video.

 

[Madplayer]

Noticed it but brushed it aside. Given the traditional concept that leggies cant chuck, i thought i was just "seeing things". The googly is the ball in question here. Having said this, i am not 100% sure about it.

 

[mak36]

For everyone saying leggies can't chuck, bear in mind Rashid calls himself a fingerspinner. I'm not saying he does chuck, but rather don't assume he can't chuck because he is a 'legspinner'.

The way he bowls is unconventional to say the least.

 

[Hawkeye]

If it's a jerk, it's fine.

Jerk does not mean chucking..

 

[Slim]

If it's a jerk, it's fine.

Jerk does not mean chucking..

What does chucking mean?

 

[Hawkeye]

What does chucking mean?

When you first bend and then at the time of release straighten/flex the arm above the allowed limit.

It's called "throwing". Watch how a baseball pitcher throws a ball. That's chucking.

Jerk - both Akhtar and Malinga bowl with a jerk.

I can jerk my arm all I want when bowling as long as I'm not throwing.

 

[Slim]

When you first bend and then at the time of release straighten/flex the arm above the allowed limit.

It's called "throwing". Watch how a baseball pitcher throws a ball. That's chucking.

Jerk - both Akhtar and Malinga bowl with a jerk.

I can jerk my arm all I want when bowling as long as I'm not throwing.

This is such a difficult concept to understand to be honest. I still have not managed to understand it even after years of watching cricket. Although, i admit i havent really tried understanding it much either.

 

[MMHS]

When you first bend and then at the time of release straighten/flex the arm above the allowed limit.

It's called "throwing". Watch how a baseball pitcher throws a ball. That's chucking.

Jerk - both Akhtar and Malinga bowl with a jerk.

I can jerk my arm all I want when bowling as long as I'm not throwing.

I think, you are mixing “jerk” with “slinging” action. Jeff Thompson used to sling as well.

Jerk & throwing are same. Baseball pitchers throw it with almost full bent arm, and at release point the elbow strengthens to almost straight making it like 50-60 degree jerk & lots of power & torque comes from elbow.

In cricket, they don’t call it “balling”, it’s “bowling” - in ideal case you should bowl with a straight elbow & bring power from your shoulders. But, bowlers are allowed to bowl with bent arm (some said they are born with bent arm ...) as long as you are not taking unfair advantage of the power, torque & accuracy using your elbow - that acceptable margin is set at 15d. If that 15d isn’t allowed, basically bowlers have to bowl like windmill with a straight rolling arm.

That little jerk you mentioned is also “strengthening” of arm, but it’s perfectly acceptable as long as the elbow doesn’t straighten more than 15d at delivery stride.

 

[Hawkeye]

This is such a difficult concept to understand to be honest. I still have not managed to understand it even after years of watching cricket. Although, i admit i havent really tried understanding it much either.

If you've played cricket yourself, even in gali mohalla, the "watta" ball is called throwing/chucking..

I think, you are mixing “jerk” with “slinging” action. Jeff Thompson used to sling as well.

Jerk & throwing are same. Baseball pitchers throw it with almost full bent arm, and at release point the elbow strengthens to almost straight making it like 50-60 degree jerk & lots of power & torque comes from elbow.

In cricket, they don’t call it “balling”, it’s “bowling” - in ideal case you should bowl with a straight elbow & bring power from your shoulders. But, bowlers are allowed to bowl with bent arm (some said they are born with bent arm ...) as long as you are not taking unfair advantage of the power, torque & accuracy using your elbow - that acceptable margin is set at 15d. If that 15d isn’t allowed, basically bowlers have to bowl like windmill with a straight rolling arm.

That little jerk you mentioned is also “strengthening” of arm, but it’s perfectly acceptable as long as the elbow doesn’t straighten more than 15d at delivery stride.

When you bend and flex more than 15 degrees, whether the motion is with a jerk or without, it'd be chucking..

People can jerk the arm without throwing as well..

I have not seen how Rashid bowls or how he did yesterday, so I'm just discussing the theoretical side. Maybe his 'jerk' that you folks are talking about is indeed chucking, straightening beyond 15 degrees at the release.

 

[Slim]

If you've played cricket yourself, even in gali mohalla, the "watta" ball is called throwing/chucking..





When you bend and flex more than 15 degrees, whether the motion is with a jerk or without, it'd be chucking..

People can jerk the arm without throwing as well..

I have not seen how Rashid bowls or how he did yesterday, so I'm just discussing the theoretical side. Maybe his 'jerk' that you folks are talking about is indeed chucking, straightening beyond 15 degrees at the release.

The watta ball was basically the guy not rotating his arm fully 360 degrees and just throwing the ball. The watta ball tend to be more pacy and sometimes if used by a spinner used to spin a lot even on a tape ball.

To elaborate, if you are a pace bowler, your watta was just throwing the ball without rotating the arms fully. That gave you pace.

For a spinner, you held the ball gripping it with two or three fingers and had the fingers facing towards you. After that, you just had to jerk the ball forward and it would spin randomly.

 

[Slim]

The watta ball was basically the guy not rotating his arm fully 360 degrees and just throwing the ball. The watta ball tend to be more pacy and sometimes if used by a spinner used to spin a lot even on a tape ball.

To elaborate, if you are a pace bowler, your watta was just throwing the ball without rotating the arms fully. That gave you pace.

For a spinner, you held the ball gripping it with two or three fingers and had the fingers facing towards you. After that, you just had to jerk the ball forward and it would spin randomly.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] bhai, need your opinion as well. Maybe if we have a good animator on pakpassion, they should make an animation of this and clear this confusion forever.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I guess you are talking about 2 balls against Mahmudullah yesterday. I did notice that time in slow mo replay, but can’t say with conviction. You can bowl with bent arm as long as it’s consistenly bent (not straightening more than 15d). Might be camera angel also.

Yes that but also I've seen some of his spells in IPL etc. on slow Mo and his googly sometimes looks jerky and I was surprised nobody on PP noticed it.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Noticed it but brushed it aside. Given the traditional concept that leggies cant chuck, i thought i was just "seeing things". The googly is the ball in question here. Having said this, i am not 100% sure about it.

Yes the googly is the one I am talking about. Yeah even I've heard that it is biomechanically impossible to chuck leg spin which is why I too didn't broach this topic earlier but there is a noticeable jerk and his action is not a classical leggies action either.

 

[Slim]

Yes that but also I've seen some of his spells in IPL etc. on slow Mo and his googly sometimes looks jerky and I was surprised nobody on PP noticed it.

Havent seen him but Kedhar Jhadav's action is pretty weird too.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If it's a jerk, it's fine.

Jerk does not mean chucking..

I used jerk in the sense that it is possibly chucking but not definitely so. Bilal Asif has a jerky action but that is because of his wrist and his elbow is straight as seen on slow Mo he's not a chucker. Rashid's action is jerky but there is atleast a little bit of straightening in his googly. Can't definitely say he is chucking but worth testing imo.

 

[Hawkeye]

I used jerk in the sense that it is possibly chucking but not definitely so. Bilal Asif has a jerky action but that is because of his wrist and his elbow is straight as seen on slow Mo he's not a chucker. Rashid's action is jerky but there is atleast a little bit of straightening in his googly. Can't definitely say he is chucking but worth testing imo.

Yep, so if there's an element of doubt re. excessive straightening, that would indeed indicate chucking.


Can't say as I haven't seen him bowl.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Havent seen him but Kedhar Jhadav's action is pretty weird too.

Jadhav is just a slinger. Barely any bend or straightening.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] bhai, need your opinion as well. Maybe if we have a good animator on pakpassion, they should make an animation of this and clear this confusion forever.

Shouldn't comment on this without concrete evidence. This are sensitive issues, that can hurt people's feelings. I can't find any clue how he adds pace on his googly which is supposed to be coming from reverse wrist position.

 

[Hamad_H]

If anyone watched the video where Rashid bowled to Trescothick, he shows he gets leg spin by rolling his fingers to get the turn and holds the ball in his fingers rather than palm so he is more of a finger spinner.

It is possible that he chucks but it is hard to prove without controversy.

I haven't personally seen the BD vs. Afg game but just saying that it is possible as he is not a conventional leggie.

 

[Realromeo]

Not this again, he doesn't chuck all just spent 5 mins looking for HD highlights and watched his googly lol.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Was watching this video, leg spin master class with shane and rashid, looks clear jerk in slow motion.
https://youtu.be/Kk1P_91DaBI

 

[ElRaja]

dont really see it, if anyone could highlight the actual timestamp it might be useful.

fwiw his arm is bent, but he doesn't straighten it as far as i can tell (similar to saqlain)

 

[pratiktc]

Can't throw while bowling legspin.
Human elbow can't bend inward.