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ECB decide to withdraw both teams from the October trip to Pakistan

Pakistan needs to stop touring these countries. It's clearly a one-sided relationship.

Continue to grow the PSL and maintain relations with SL, West Indies, Bangladesh, any other nation willing to come for return tours.
 
What???? This is really pathetic. UK only a few days took Pakistan off the red list and onto green. What new Covid data does the ECB have which the UK government doesnt?

There's been no suggestion it's down to the risk of infection. There is mention of the fact that the added security situation would add even more pressure to the players who have been (and will continue to be operating) in mentally challenging restricted covid environments.
 
This is the official statement - “ The mental and physical well-being of our players and support staff remains our highest priority and this is even more critical given the times we are currently living in. We know there are increasing concerns about travelling to the region and believe that going ahead will add further pressure to a playing group who have already coped with a long period of operating in restricted Covid environments. “

Make what you will of it.
 
ECB using covid as an excuse. Oh dear. More people are infected in the UK through C19 than compared to Pakistan.

Come on ECB, come up with a better excuse, admit it, the RAW intel was a hoax!
 
Sad for Pakistan cricket. but it’s not the English or Kiwi players or boards fault. It’s obviously political and a lot more intelligence agencies and governments involved.
It’s a bit shady New Zealand can not even share the security threat they claim with Pak officials. They are saying it’s not safe for them but we can’t tell you why. Also, I presume they are saying only their players are not safe but Pakistani players are either don’t matter or are safe?
Also, if they shared their intelligence then Pakistan could take action to try eliminating the threat from Pakistan and making at least their own people safe.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRealPCB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheRealPCB</a> have every reason to be disappointed with the ECB. Pak and WI toured England last year during pandemic before vaccines. England owes so much to both Pak and WI. Least ECB could do is not cancel the reciprocal tours. There are no winners when cricket is cancelled.</p>— Wasim Jaffer (@WasimJaffer14) <a href="https://twitter.com/WasimJaffer14/status/1440004345634775044?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRealPCB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheRealPCB</a> have every reason to be disappointed with the ECB. Pak and WI toured England last year during pandemic before vaccines. England owes so much to both Pak and WI. Least ECB could do is not cancel the reciprocal tours. There are no winners when cricket is cancelled.</p>— Wasim Jaffer (@WasimJaffer14) <a href="https://twitter.com/WasimJaffer14/status/1440004345634775044?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This guy has stuck his neck out for us

May Allah protect him and keep him safe. Ameen.
 
There's been no suggestion it's down to the risk of infection. There is mention of the fact that the added security situation would add even more pressure to the players who have been (and will continue to be operating) in mentally challenging restricted covid environments.

The official statement is basically saying due to Covid and general worry, the players are mental midgets who will struggle to cope. There is no exact statement saying the main reason was intelligence informed England players will be attacked, as per some plan by some group.
 
Sensible, logical decision by ECB.

Considering Pakistan’s history and complete lack of credibility, you cannot take any risks.

We need to understand that cricket boards will always adopt the “better safe than sorry” approach when it comes to Pakistan.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Can you point to the specifics of the threat ECB faced for a 3 day tour to play 2 T20 matches?

How is this a sensible decision?
 
ECB are fully aware there is no security threat and have had to resort to mental and physical well being as an excuse to masquerade the blatant racism and gullibility of NZG.

PCB should accept the Ecb and NZ offer to play in UAE. This will get us the practice we need for the upcoming WC.

Do the opposite to what they planned. Look them in the eyes on the field and test out your bench strength. Hard pill to swallow but Pakistan has played in UAE as a second home so use that to your advantage and Believe.
 
So what were these 'concerns about travelling to the region' about then and what specifically was threatening the players physical wellbeing?

What concerns when tavelling to the region when the tour was green lit by security officials?

Speak up.
 
What concern travelling to the region when the tour was green lit by security officials?

Speak up.

Please provide a clear statement from an official that England's security team have provided the green light for this tour since the events that resulted in the tour being reviewed.

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for you to tell me what these concerns about travelling to the region where and what these potentials threats were to the players physical well-being if they weren't to do with the security situation please?
 
Great! I guess we'll just expect a guy who wanted to blow up an international cricket team to just go home and be a good boy. And not be a threat to anyone. Ever.

Take a second and think about what you are saying. Actually try to comprehend how ludicrous and ridiculous it sounds.

And you're right there is a good reason for that, its called Pakistani lives don't matter.

Exactly. Once these assets are activated, their handlers will burn off any kind of contact mechanism. There is only one way to go. So if 5eyes had credible intel that a suicide bomber or worse was in Rawalpindi, they should inform the Pak authorities without exposing their supposed sources.

Unless either the intel was suspect (happens), or this was a political move (high probability) , or worse Pakistani lives don't matter.

By 5 eyes, it was most probably US or UK ( most probable ). The other 3 do not have SigInt (Signal Intelligence - Satellite, eavesdropping etc capabilities) or Human assets in the region to provide credible warnings.
Now look at recent US/UK intelligence performance:
1) Failed to predict lightening Taliban takeover of the country with minimal bloodshed. They expected Afghan Gov to hold off Taliban for 6-12 months.
2) Failed to stop the suicide bombing at Kabul airport that killed over 200 afghan civilians.
3) Provided faulty intel that was used to launch a drone strike on an innocent afghan family killing 10 civilians including 7 children.
 
What concerns when tavelling to the region when the tour was green lit by security officials?

Speak up.

Fear is a different altogether aspect. People know that ghosts aren't real yet that doesn't make people go to morg at night.

Even after giving green light, if players are in fear, then it's pointless to play.

This is where lack of credibility of Pakistan comes in. If it was other country, that fear won't be there and play could go on.

Bottom line, no one trusts Pakistan.
 
cricket is in dire straits , india pulled out of the last test against england because they wanted to be fresh for ipl.
 
I don't think people here should go overboard defending England.

Yes, their decision was essentially a foregone conclusion after what New Zealand did.

But that doesn't change the fact that Pakistan helped them out at their greatest time of need which even they went out of their way to acknowledge. And how did they repay us? By pulling out and giving us a lame duck excuse that nobody is believing.

No one in dumb enough to believe that Pakistan “helped out” England in 2020. Pakistan did not do any favors.

They toured England because they knew that if they pull out, it will kill any chances of England touring Pakistan any time soon.

As a result, Pakistan did the “we helped England” drama to coerce England into touring Pakistan.

England have nothing to repay because Pakistan did not do any favors to begin with. They were only looking after their own interests.
 
Please provide a clear statement from an official that England's security team have provided the green light for this tour since the events that resulted in the tour being reviewed.

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for you to tell me what these concerns about travelling to the region where and what these potentials threats were to the players physical well-being if they weren't to do with the security situation please?

Don't try it.

The tour was approved.

Come back with another web of words.

You got busted.
 
Can you point to the specifics of the threat ECB faced for a 3 day tour to play 2 T20 matches?

How is this a sensible decision?

The threat that New Zealand faced is valid for England as well.

Pakistan says there is no threat; New Zealand says there is on.

If you were ECB, would you trust Pakistan or New Zealand?

No one would trust Pakistan when it comes to security issues because Pakistan has no credibility.
 
Fear is a different altogether aspect. People know that ghosts aren't real yet that doesn't make people go to morg at night.

Even after giving green light, if players are in fear, then it's pointless to play.

This is where lack of credibility of Pakistan comes in. If it was other country, that fear won't be there and play could go on.

Bottom line, no one trusts Pakistan.

Pesduo science is not an excuse.
 
English defending in full force, ECB knew if they said security half the British Pakistanis would pound on them, instead they left it open for interpretation very smart , clearly British are cunning let NZ take a massive fall as if NZ security officials are that capable.
 
This is the official statement - “ The mental and physical well-being of our players and support staff remains our highest priority and this is even more critical given the times we are currently living in. We know there are increasing concerns about travelling to the region and believe that going ahead will add further pressure to a playing group who have already coped with a long period of operating in restricted Covid environments. “

Make what you will of it.

And what about pakistans players n staff? They travelled at the height of covid in england Played weeks in isolation at the risk of their health and well being

And when its time for a reciprocal an important tour for pakistan cricket this is what they get

Pathetic
 
The threat that New Zealand faced is valid for England as well.

Pakistan says there is no threat; New Zealand says there is on.

If you were ECB, would you trust Pakistan or New Zealand?

No one would trust Pakistan when it comes to security issues because Pakistan has no credibility.

How?

The threat NZ faced was specific to NZ players only and their team.

That is why they kept Pakistan in the dark and chose to fly.

How does the threat now shift to England team?
 
Don't try it.

The tour was approved.

Come back with another web of words.

You got busted.

Yet another valid question dodged without an answer. Just to conclude, the questions that you cannot answer despite being asked multiple times:

What was the potential threat to the priority of the players physical-wellbeing referred to by the ECB if it wasn't related to the security situation?

What were the ECB referring to when they mentioned increasing concerns about travelling to the region if they weren't referring to the security situation?

Can you provide proof of the ECBs security officials green-lighting the tour since it was reviewed following the NZ incident?

If you're just going to continue dodging these questions (who are we kidding here, of course you are) then I see no further point in continuing this discussion given it's clearly in bad faith on your part.
 
English defending in full force, ECB knew if they said security half the British Pakistanis would pound on them, instead they left it open for interpretation very smart , clearly British are cunning let NZ take a massive fall as if NZ security officials are that capable.

ECB have chosen their words very carefully seeing the social media backlash that NZC got and even mentioned that the full tour next year is on. Looks like they spent the extra 24 hours in softening the blow as much as possible
 
Yet another valid question dodged without an answer. Just to conclude, the questions that you cannot answer despite being asked multiple times:

What was the potential threat to the priority of the players physical-wellbeing referred to by the ECB if it wasn't related to the security situation?

What were the ECB referring to when they mentioned increasing concerns about travelling to the region if they weren't referring to the security situation?

Can you provide proof of the ECBs security officials green-lighting the tour since it was reviewed following the NZ incident?

If you're just going to continue dodging these questions (who are we kidding here, of course you are) then I see no further point in continuing this discussion given it's clearly in bad faith on your part.

This isn't your local council. You, yes you, are putting words in the mouth of the ECB.

Security wasn't mentioned by the ECB, but you are happy to assume so because of obvious reasons.

Again the tour was approved. You have no answer, so save the essays.
 
? I just said they are all in the same camp and serve the same master. I wouldn't blame Australia for not coming either now. Doesn't mean I or most other posters on this board are Australian.

Also, if you try to look at history objectively you will find out that almost everything that has happened in the Post World War II world is the US' s fault. From the start of the Cold War to Vietnam to the Middle East and the rise of terrorism. That's why the US is despised in every part of the world as an imperialist hegemon, expect in India I guess where they have fooled you all into thinking that you are an 'ally' of theirs.

Nothing is black or white. A lot of good that America did is lost on your post , the US has saved many Muslims in Kosovo, and prevented many civil wars in Africa - DRC Dictators stepped down because of sanctions. Saudi - Iran are also kept on the balance only because of the US. America also intervened in the Kargil situation. Even in the Taliban situation, the US has not exploited as much leverage as it could have. Imagine any other country as the watchdog of the world

All the thoughts coming from your mind to me on my phone & vice versa have come on an American innovation. Literally!

Enough said ?
 
So sorry about this. :(

Such a shame. I’m gutted.

Not your fault.

But some of the comments from England fans are pathetic and disrespectful. This nationalistic brainwashed mindset of some Englishmen shows they no less extreme than anyone else.

Pakistan should send their U-19 team to the next England tour. England fans can enjoy paying £100 at Lords to see their team play kids and win in 2 days, hopefully this will make them happy.
 
Wish they withdrew in 1857, ab kia faida.

Truthfully?

1857 was the peak of colonialism.

They would have been foolish if they had done so.

You cant hold the currrent citizens responsible for the aggressive East India Company.
 
Are pakistan touring england in 2022? If so they need to pull out citing players wellbeing and welfare as a priority

There should be no tour until england come first
 
? I just said they are all in the same camp and serve the same master. I wouldn't blame Australia for not coming either now. Doesn't mean I or most other posters on this board are Australian.

Also, if you try to look at history objectively you will find out that almost everything that has happened in the Post World War II world is the US' s fault. From the start of the Cold War to Vietnam to the Middle East and the rise of terrorism. That's why the US is despised in every part of the world as an imperialist hegemon, expect in India I guess where they have fooled you all into thinking that you are an 'ally' of theirs.

India being fooled? For 20 years, Pak acted as the mercenary nation for US and gave them everything from launching pads to attack Afghanistan and being their hired guns killing the same people whom today you are supporting. You didn't say anything to them when they used drone strikes to kill your own citizens and yet India is the one being fooled. Wah! Delusion is ur greatest ally and nothing wrong with it if that helps you sleep well in the night. Today china is ur greatest ally or atleast that's what you think, yet you would never care to think what exactly is about Pakistan that china admires - technology, education, democracy, huge trade? None of this. Today you matter to china because it has frosty relations with India. The day those relationships mend then china will abandon you and you will be here commenting that Indians are fools to think of china as an ally.
 
Sensible decision by the ECB. Well done.



Try that with us and we will sue you for every penny you got.

We saved your bacon last year and this is how it's repaid. It can be done with subtlety but PK has to take take all these countries to the cleaners
 
All the reactions are fine you can't show any sort of other reaction because the people are not acting mature enough to see that cricket is being played here with all the foreign cricketers commentators with the same security.

He already sent a letter to NZ cricket board and they said neutral venue which is not even an option. NZC even said we'll talk about the financial loss which is enough to prove that diplomacy is hard and evident.

Don't need to hide any thing because everything is open just like NZ did.

Mate he is acting as if he is talking on his YouTube Channel, he still needs to keep relations with his peers for the forseable future and not just call them out blatantly like that.

As a fan/commentator its fine, he can share his own views but as a chairman he needs to be smarter with his words as he represents the business of Pakistan Cricket And Pakistan Cricket need not be represented as an emotional entity while on the negotiation table
 
This is the official statement - “ The mental and physical well-being of our players and support staff remains our highest priority and this is even more critical given the times we are currently living in. We know there are increasing concerns about travelling to the region and believe that going ahead will add further pressure to a playing group who have already coped with a long period of operating in restricted Covid environments. “

Make what you will of it.

I wonder if ECB would say the same to BCCI or Australian boards? This extra power has completely taken the rational out of cricket by these boards. Pathetic to say the least.
 
Nothing is black or white. A lot of good that America did is lost on your post , the US has saved many Muslims in Kosovo, and prevented many civil wars in Africa - DRC Dictators stepped down because of sanctions. Saudi - Iran are also kept on the balance only because of the US. America also intervened in the Kargil situation. Even in the Taliban situation, the US has not exploited as much leverage as it could have. Imagine any other country as the watchdog of the world

All the thoughts coming from your mind to me on my phone & vice versa have come on an American innovation. Literally!

Enough said ?

Ok. Now let's look at the opposite column.

- Starting the Cold War
- Orchestrating regime change in Iran in 1952
- Orchestrating regime change in Guatemala in 1954
- Supporting/propping up brutal military dictators in Cuba, Brazil, Argentina
- Supporting mass killings in Indonesia 1965
- Continuous support and unchecked military aid to Israel for 70+ as it kills, murders, evicts Palestinians and end the idea of a viable Palestinian state
- Murdering Chile's democratically-elected leader Salvador Allende because he refused to bow down to an imperialist state like the US and replacing him with a pro-US tyrant and eventual war criminal Augusto Pinochet
- Murdering millions in Vietnam and still getting beaten comprehensively by what they called "a bunch rice farmers"
- Funding the Mujahideen and hence playing a direct role in creation of the Taliban
- Killing Gadaffi and destroying Libya after he outlived his usefulness to the West
- Invading and destroying Iraq on outright lies that they admitted to themselves
- Invading and destroying Afghanistan just because they could, only to leave with their hat in their hand 20 years later
- Killing thousands of innocent civilians in drone attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Iraq.


Enough said ?
 
And what about pakistans players n staff? They travelled at the height of covid in england Played weeks in isolation at the risk of their health and well being

And when its time for a reciprocal an important tour for pakistan cricket this is what they get

Pathetic

Definitely it is unfair to Pakistani fans, players & staff.
 
Mate he is acting as if he is talking on his YouTube Channel, he still needs to keep relations with his peers for the forseable future and not just call them out blatantly like that.

As a fan/commentator its fine, he can share his own views but as a chairman he needs to be smarter with his words as he represents the business of Pakistan Cricket And Pakistan Cricket need not be represented as an emotional entity while on the negotiation table

We have tried the nicey nicey and thats worked well for the last decade.
 
Mate he is acting as if he is talking on his YouTube Channel, he still needs to keep relations with his peers for the forseable future and not just call them out blatantly like that.

As a fan/commentator its fine, he can share his own views but as a chairman he needs to be smarter with his words as he represents the business of Pakistan Cricket And Pakistan Cricket need not be represented as an emotional entity while on the negotiation table

You're underselling the PCB.

They're being assertive because there is no negotiation to be had after what NZ and ECB have done. You either tour Pakistan or the relationship is done as it is.

Diplomacy goes both ways. It can't be a card that's used for Pakistan and no one else. What NZ did is disrespectful and they threw that courtesy out the window when they decided Pakistani lives are less valuable.
 
India being fooled? For 20 years, Pak acted as the mercenary nation for US and gave them everything from launching pads to attack Afghanistan and being their hired guns killing the same people whom today you are supporting. You didn't say anything to them when they used drone strikes to kill your own citizens and yet India is the one being fooled. Wah! Delusion is ur greatest ally and nothing wrong with it if that helps you sleep well in the night. Today china is ur greatest ally or atleast that's what you think, yet you would never care to think what exactly is about Pakistan that china admires - technology, education, democracy, huge trade? None of this. Today you matter to china because it has frosty relations with India. The day those relationships mend then china will abandon you and you will be here commenting that Indians are fools to think of china as an ally.

LOL. I never get tired of hearing comments like these that automatically assume that I am a state official who has been responsible for everything that has gone wrong since the Pakistan's independence.

First off, let me say that you are almost 100% right about everything you have said about the Pakistan-US relationship. But should that not serve as a warning for India. Because the simple fact is that the US has no allies. A sole superpower can never have allies. England, Australia and all the other such Western countries are its servants.

As for China, China is not a superpower today. It is very much a rising power and there are many factors (namely geographical) that make alot of sense for Pakistan to be so close to China for the time being. That said, I have no doubt that China will become an imperialist hegemon when it becomes the sole superpower, that will seek to exploit and dominate not just the region but the world too. But that isn't happening for atleast the next 50 years.
 
You're underselling the PCB.

They're being assertive because there is no negotiation to be had after what NZ and ECB have done. You either tour Pakistan or the relationship is done as it is.

Diplomacy goes both ways. It can't be a card that's used for Pakistan and no one else. What NZ did is disrespectful and they threw that courtesy out the window when they decided Pakistani lives are less valuable.

I posted this somewhere else, but as per these Indians Pakistan should become a doormat everywhere. In cricketing world, in international geopolitics, in global economy, etc. Self respect is actually a thing. These guys are high up on concern trolling for the last few days.
 
I'm confused, why are we letting England off the hook? This is clearly coordinated, with Australia soon to follow.

Let's call it for what it is: a political, colonial complex, where certain folks lives are valued more than others. There was a terrorist attack in New Zealand, in which actual cricketers were close to being killed, yet cricket was never banned in New Zealand. During the height of COVID, Pakistan and the West Indies toured and spent entire months in lockdown, respectively (despite indifferent treatment from the New Zealand government). Do you actually in your wildest dreams think New Zealand or England would pull out of tours in India, Australia, etc. if they received a similar "threat"?

Yet, when it comes time to repay the favor, these Boards run away with their tails between their legs. Did Pakistani Cricketers lives not matter during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC, or are theirs so much more valuable that they can renege on contractual obligations over a hoax message, for tours intended to last only a week or so? Give me a break! And if you buy the nonsense about their players safety being their utmost concern, do not forget how star players from NZ, England, and Australia were roaming India during the height of COVID in hazmat suits like a bunch of indentured beggars, with the full clearance and blessings of their Boards.

With respect to the immediate future, Pakistan should immediately cut cricketing ties with these Boards until Pakistan is fully compensated or given its matches at home. While there is nothing more I would like than for Pakistan to rout all these teams during the World T20, part of me also supports a full withdrawal (let the ICC's pockets feel a little light for once).

Like before, I am certain Pakistan Cricket will survive, rise, and thrive amidst all the chaos. But like everyone else, I hope this Administration has enough gall and self-respect to never forget this betrayal, and never go running to these Boards for friendship and mutuality.

We are on our own. But hey, Cornered Tigers Always Rise.
 
They've made very little efforts to cover up that this is probably some sort of politically motivated decision
 
The tour was not that brilliant anyway.... Guess Pak found out you can bend over backwards.... A friend in need is a friend indeed. LOL .....
 
Ok. Now let's look at the opposite column.

- Starting the Cold War
- Orchestrating regime change in Iran in 1952
- Orchestrating regime change in Guatemala in 1954
- Supporting/propping up brutal military dictators in Cuba, Brazil, Argentina
- Supporting mass killings in Indonesia 1965
- Continuous support and unchecked military aid to Israel for 70+ as it kills, murders, evicts Palestinians and end the idea of a viable Palestinian state
- Murdering Chile's democratically-elected leader Salvador Allende because he refused to bow down to an imperialist state like the US and replacing him with a pro-US tyrant and eventual war criminal Augusto Pinochet
- Murdering millions in Vietnam and still getting beaten comprehensively by what they called "a bunch rice farmers"
- Funding the Mujahideen and hence playing a direct role in creation of the Taliban
- Killing Gadaffi and destroying Libya after he outlived his usefulness to the West
- Invading and destroying Iraq on outright lies that they admitted to themselves
- Invading and destroying Afghanistan just because they could, only to leave with their hat in their hand 20 years later
- Killing thousands of innocent civilians in drone attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Iraq.


Enough said ?

I guess we ll call it enough! The US have made mistakes, and has its own problems. But they learn from them, and are a voice you can reason with, in my opinion.
 
Exactly. Once these assets are activated, their handlers will burn off any kind of contact mechanism. There is only one way to go. So if 5eyes had credible intel that a suicide bomber or worse was in Rawalpindi, they should inform the Pak authorities without exposing their supposed sources.

Unless either the intel was suspect (happens), or this was a political move (high probability) , or worse Pakistani lives don't matter.

By 5 eyes, it was most probably US or UK ( most probable ). The other 3 do not have SigInt (Signal Intelligence - Satellite, eavesdropping etc capabilities) or Human assets in the region to provide credible warnings.
Now look at recent US/UK intelligence performance:
1) Failed to predict lightening Taliban takeover of the country with minimal bloodshed. They expected Afghan Gov to hold off Taliban for 6-12 months.
2) Failed to stop the suicide bombing at Kabul airport that killed over 200 afghan civilians.
3) Provided faulty intel that was used to launch a drone strike on an innocent afghan family killing 10 civilians including 7 children.

They are only good for causing trouble in Hong Kong. And even there they are incompetent because China threatened to blind them!
 
I guess we ll call it enough! The US have made mistakes, and has its own problems. But they learn from them, and are a voice you can reason with, in my opinion.

They are not! They are bullies who don't take ownership for their failures, consider themselves to be cowboys and the world as lawless Red Indian territory, and regularly seek to impose their will on international politics making a mockery of the very system they created all while acting like an all-round imperialist state (which they are) whenever they can.

But ofcourse you are welcome to believe what you want to believe.
 
I guess we ll call it enough! The US have made mistakes, and has its own problems. But they learn from them, and are a voice you can reason with, in my opinion.

I think the problem happens when we have certain people claiming 5 eyes are infallible, and ISI is the opposite of infallible, when in fact 5 eyes have been behind so many botched incidents that it probably beats ISI handily in terms of botched jobs. These people want to keep pretending ISI can't be trusted because of 1 or 2 incidents, but 5 eyes should be trusted despite having a much bigger resume of botched jobs and intelligence failures.
 
No one in dumb enough to believe that Pakistan “helped out” England in 2020. Pakistan did not do any favors.

They toured England because they knew that if they pull out, it will kill any chances of England touring Pakistan any time soon.

As a result, Pakistan did the “we helped England” drama to coerce England into touring Pakistan.

England have nothing to repay because Pakistan did not do any favors to begin with. They were only looking after their own interests.

Only you are dumb enough to believe that they didn't.

Regardless of what the expectation may have been from Pakistan, the simple fact of the matter is that Pakistan delivered in England's time of need...when they were desperate for someone to tour. Therefore according to the dictionary definition of 'helping out', Pakistan 'helped' England out.

And I think I'll take the ECB's word on that, rather than yours.
 
Only you are dumb enough to believe that they didn't.

Regardless of what the expectation may have been from Pakistan, the simple fact of the matter is that Pakistan delivered in England's time of need...when they were desperate for someone to tour. Therefore according to the dictionary definition of 'helping out', Pakistan 'helped' England out.

And I think I'll take the ECB's word on that, rather than yours.

No, it is not a simple fact. The problem is that over the 3-4 days, we have gone bonkers and even the so-called sensible posters who are usually quite intelligent and perceptive have lost it.

To say that we are letting our emotions get the better of us would be a gross understatement.

The entire nation - PCB, players, media, fans etc. is having a verbal diarrhea that doesn’t seem to end.

Being a Pakistani has always been a source of tremendous embarrassment for me, but my embarrassment has reached unchartered levels over the past 3-4 days.

Furthermore, you can call it whatever you want, but Pakistan did not do a “favor” on England.

When you help someone out because that someone can help you out later, it is not called a favor; it is called a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Pakistan would have done England a favor if had nothing to gain out of it. However, Pakistan had everything to gain out of it because not touring England last year would have pretty much killed any chances of England touring Pakistan this year.

ECB will not come out and say that Pakistan toured England because they were looking after their interests.

However, yes, you can take theirs and New Zealand’s words whenever it is convenient. If they praise Pakistan, you will take their words. However, when they provide their justifications for not playing in Pakistan, you don’t take their words.
 
How?

The threat NZ faced was specific to NZ players only and their team.

That is why they kept Pakistan in the dark and chose to fly.

How does the threat now shift to England team?

Does Pakistan have proof that the threat was New Zealand specific and not because New Zealand happened to be the team that was touring Pakistan at that point?

If there was a legit threat, it makes no sense for the terrorists to target New Zealand specifically and spare England.

Hence, ECB has every right to be cautious.

Ultimately, New Zealand have not proved that there was a legit threat and Pakistan have not proved otherwise. Hence, it is New Zealand’s word against Pakistan’s, and no one is going to trust Pakistan’s narrative when it comes to security issues.
 
ECB using covid as an excuse. Oh dear. More people are infected in the UK through C19 than compared to Pakistan.

Come on ECB, come up with a better excuse, admit it, the RAW intel was a hoax!

Thats why we never succeed; we have this habit of blaming BCCI/ICC/RAW immediately for our own deficiencies. This mindset needs to be changed

We are loosing these teams because we are not competitive team any more ; and last 2 years decline has shown this.. Take an example of Zimbabwe , when their team was doing great until 2003 , every one wants to play with them and visit them (except for few instances) And ever since their decline started , except for Pakistan, no country even send their B team to play Zimbabwe

Rather than blaming BCCI straightaway, the main culprit is Misbah (ever since this joker arrives in the team) We lost all the excitement, and winning culture..
I am a proud Pakistani, and it pains me to see the current situation. But if I were ECB/NZC cheif I would have done the same thing

Improve your cricket PCB; and then come to the table
 
Does Pakistan have proof that the threat was New Zealand specific and not because New Zealand happened to be the team that was touring Pakistan at that point?

If there was a legit threat, it makes no sense for the terrorists to target New Zealand specifically and spare England.

Hence, ECB has every right to be cautious.

Ultimately, New Zealand have not proved that there was a legit threat and Pakistan have not proved otherwise. Hence, it is New Zealand’s word against Pakistan’s, and no one is going to trust Pakistan’s narrative when it comes to security issues.

The word of NZ.

The NZ government has told the reason for not telling Pakistan is that the threat only affected NZ players and not the mass population.

That is precisely the reason NZ fled without informing PCB or Pak government.

Now you said you believe NZ more?

But here you are claiming, England were also under possible siege.

We are not in 2005 mate.

Its been 15 years.

Pakistan is NOT a warzone like you make it sound.
 
We need to do a quick tour of India before the start of the T20 world cup.

This will be the ideal preparation for us in terms of adjusting to the conditions whilst playing high level competitive cricket

We will absolutely welcome the England team here for some fierce and competitive cricket!

Of course not everyone is fortunate enough to be well-prepared for a major tournament like the T20 world cup. :vk
 
No, it is not a simple fact. The problem is that over the 3-4 days, we have gone bonkers and even the so-called sensible posters who are usually quite intelligent and perceptive have lost it.

To say that we are letting our emotions get the better of us would be a gross understatement.

The entire nation - PCB, players, media, fans etc. is having a verbal diarrhea that doesn’t seem to end.

Being a Pakistani has always been a source of tremendous embarrassment for me, but my embarrassment has reached unchartered levels over the past 3-4 days.

Furthermore, you can call it whatever you want, but Pakistan did not do a “favor” on England.

When you help someone out because that someone can help you out later, it is not called a favor; it is called a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Pakistan would have done England a favor if had nothing to gain out of it. However, Pakistan had everything to gain out of it because not touring England last year would have pretty much killed any chances of England touring Pakistan this year.

ECB will not come out and say that Pakistan toured England because they were looking after their interests.

However, yes, you can take theirs and New Zealand’s words whenever it is convenient. If they praise Pakistan, you will take their words. However, when they provide their justifications for not playing in Pakistan, you don’t take their words.

I mean what am I supposed to do if you have felt embarrassment being a Pakistani? Should I shed a tear for you?

People have every right to be angry and vent their frustration. They have been cheated out of an international series on a dodgy and highly dubious reason that not only feels politically-motivated but has also set back years of hardwork done to bring international cricket back to the country. The way the whole thing was carried out was also a slap on the fact to every Pakistani who isn't deluded enough to not doubt their dubious explanation.

And no. I don't need to take their words when its convenient. I just need to look at their words, instead of picking and choosing things like other posters who you are seemingly associating me with, or drawing my own contrarian, hare-brained conclusions from their statements like you. All the conclusions I have drawn on NZC have been based on their actions, statements and the stuff they leaked to their local media.

So I don't need to say anything. Like I said, I'll take the ECB's word for it. Considering how they were the ones to decide if they were 'helped' by Pakistan or not.
 
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They are not! They are bullies who don't take ownership for their failures, consider themselves to be cowboys and the world as lawless Red Indian territory, and regularly seek to impose their will on international politics making a mockery of the very system they created all while acting like an all-round imperialist state (which they are) whenever they can.

But ofcourse you are welcome to believe what you want to believe.

To the victor go the spoils. Thats business. For example -
If ECB / NZC pulls out of cricket in America, unlike Ind/Pak, they should still pull it off. They will innovate, think something entirely new & out of the box, hell they will quickly invent a new game, and make money off of that by sweetly selling the new game to NZ/ECB.
 
I think Pakistan fans are overreacting. <b>ECB have mentioned they are committed to tour Pakistan in 2022.</b> Once England tours next year it will open door for Aus/Nz too. Bang/Afg/ZIm/SL /WI/Ireland etc are already ready to tour Pakistan whenever PCB wishes to host them. Once things ease out we might see India tour Pakistan too. Have faith.

That's right, a delay of a year is no biggie. If England tour in 2022 it will be a great success for PCB. More countries will then follow.
 
First off, let me say that you are almost 100% right about everything you have said about the Pakistan-US relationship. But should that not serve as a warning for India. Because the simple fact is that the US has no allies. A sole superpower can never have allies. England, Australia and all the other such Western countries are its servants.

US has interests, India has interests, and as the two largest democracies those interests are now aligned.

India runs a surplus of about $50 billion with the US and that pays for its oil imports etc. So India is already benefitting a lot from the US.

Down the road, as China will get more hostile towards the US, the US will help India by selling it high tech weapons it needs to defend itself from China.

Culturally India and the US are more similar than, say the US and Japan (which most think of as an US ally).

You may call them allies or use a different word, but in practical terms the relationship between India and the US will continue getting stronger.
 
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Fatigue and covid shouldn't be mentioned as reasons. So many countries have played long tours in covid. India was in Eng for 3-4 months in one stretch.

The only acceptable reason is security. If I am correct then it was just 2 T-20 games and they can be played in 2 days.

If Eng visits next year then none these events will matter in big scheme of things.
 
“Growing threat in the region” and no travel advisory updates. :faf
 
“Growing threat in the region” and no travel advisory updates. :faf
NZ travel advisory has been updated I think, not sure about if it was before or after but it isn't a glowing recommendation to travel. England may updated soon with what is going on in Afghanistan and the intel NZ received for their tour of Pakistan.


WITVWjX.png
 
NZ travel advisory has been updated I think, not sure about if it was before or after but it isn't a glowing recommendation to travel. England may updated soon with what is going on in Afghanistan and the intel NZ received for their tour of Pakistan.


WITVWjX.png

All that over 100 odd deaths annually in a population of 220m. Most feel quite privileged to hand down such reports despite having more people killed % wise in your own country in the last 2 years.

Reading that sensationalized crap one might thing they are heading to Afghanistan.
 
All that over 100 odd deaths annually in a population of 220m. Most feel quite privileged to hand down such reports despite having more people killed % wise in your own country in the last 2 years.

Reading that sensationalized crap one might thing they are heading to Afghanistan.
The thing to note is they continue to receive intel about attacks in Pakistan. If there wasn't a direct threat, the series probably would have continued.
 
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It's about time Pak should live with the choices they have made with regards to their foreign policies.
 
The threat that New Zealand faced is valid for England as well.

Pakistan says there is no threat; New Zealand says there is on.

If you were ECB, would you trust Pakistan or New Zealand?

No one would trust Pakistan when it comes to security issues because Pakistan has no credibility.

It's funny how everyone trusted Pakistan when they were escaping from Afghanistan
 
It's funny how everyone trusted Pakistan when they were escaping from Afghanistan

Emergency evacuation/escape from a war zone simply needs better conditions than a war zone. Pakistan is surely safer than Afghanistan.

I am not claiming that Pakistan is unsafe to host events, but escaping from a warzone via Pakistan hardly means anything when it comes to hosting sports events.
 
We will absolutely welcome the England team here for some fierce and competitive cricket!

Of course not everyone is fortunate enough to be well-prepared for a major tournament like the T20 world cup. :vk

Brilliant! Lets make it happen. Let the haters hate

jay-z-secret-hand-shake.gif
 
Pakistan needs to stop touring these countries. It's clearly a one-sided relationship.

Continue to grow the PSL and maintain relations with SL, West Indies, Bangladesh, any other nation willing to come for return tours.

I agree, forget these other countries and just stick to SL, BD, WI etc, can play the rest at tournaments.
 
How?

The threat NZ faced was specific to NZ players only and their team.

That is why they kept Pakistan in the dark and chose to fly.

How does the threat now shift to England team?

How was it specific to New Zealand players only? Did terrorists target New Zealand players or were the New Zealand players in the wrong place at the right time? It could have been Australian and English players instead.

There was no chance of England ignoring the threats to New Zealand and not worrying about their own safety.

It makes no sense at all. Besides, we don’t know what New Zealand communicated to England. They must have discussed this at length over the past 2-3 days, and I am sure Australia was in the loop as well, and we should except an official announcement from CA as well in the coming months.

New Zealand did not share intel with Pakistan because no western country trusts Pakistan. We are known all over the world as liars and supporters of terrorist organizations.

The Pakistani state is the only state in the world to officially support a terrorist regime in Afghanistan. Western countries are not touring Pakistan any time soon.

Pakistan has no credibility and throwing tantrums won’t change that fact.
 
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How was it specific to New Zealand players only? Did terrorists target New Zealand players or were the New Zealand players in the wrong place at the right time? It could have been Australian and English players instead.

There was no chance of England ignoring the threats to New Zealand and not worrying about their own safety.

It makes no sense at all. Besides, we don’t know what New Zealand communicated to England. They must have discussed this at length over the past 2-3 days, and I am sure Australia was in the loop as well, and we should except an official announcement from CA as well in the coming months.

New Zealand did not share intel with Pakistan because no western country trusts Pakistan. We are known all over the world as liars and {b} supporters of terrorist organizations.{/b}

The Pakistani state is the only state in the world to officially support a terrorist regime in Afghanistan. Western countries are not touring Pakistan any time soon.

Pakistan has no credibility and throwing tantrums won’t change that fact.

I hope you got valid arguments to justify your statement.
 
I don't think people here should go overboard defending England.

Yes, their decision was essentially a foregone conclusion after what New Zealand did.

But that doesn't change the fact that Pakistan helped them out at their greatest time of need which even they went out of their way to acknowledge. And how did they repay us? By pulling out and giving us a lame duck excuse that nobody is believing.

NZ didn't really do that much, the information about a "terror threat" actually came from British intelligence in the first place. NZ follows the UK lead on all this stuff.
 
I will be bashed for it but so be it.

I think Pakistan should go to to all these countries who are abandoning them, kick in their butt, win convincingly. Those countries include India too and I'm an Indian.

This is the best way to answer your haters.
 
I will be bashed for it but so be it.

I think Pakistan should go to to all these countries who are abandoning them, kick in their butt, win convincingly. Those countries include India too and I'm an Indian.

This is the best way to answer your haters.

Did that to India already bro but their refusal got stronger after that.
 
There is no such thing as remembering kindness unless you are Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
 
What a sad state of affairs in pakistan cricket, there is clearly a lot more happening behind the scenes, there is far to far too political these decisions in the last week. The ICC should punish those that cancel, or if not what is honestly the point of them existing, get rid of them.

If the ECB is wanting to take it easy as their mental health is priority then why not cancel them from going to IPL or any other tour, oh wait, the money is more significant, of course it is, mental health is not affected by that.
 
NZ travel advisory has been updated I think, not sure about if it was before or after but it isn't a glowing recommendation to travel. England may updated soon with what is going on in Afghanistan and the intel NZ received for their tour of Pakistan.


WITVWjX.png

Regarding NZ travel advisory I am not sure what it was before as it doesn’t mention what was updated. However, Eng’s advisory clearly mentioned the update was move to the amber list (out of the red). So not really sure about growing threats and stuff because when something is serious and recently developed you obviously change your advisory accordingly so that people can adapt accordingly. None of the NZ or Eng advisory has mentioned it a no go area which they have in case of quite a few other countries. Their indications of threats is in line with how they review internal matters of other countries as well, whether its the threats of protests or violence in Hong Kong.

Below is India’s travel advisory as reference (Terrorist attacks likely to be carried out by Daish, recent attacks have targeted foreigners. So will NZ be pulling out?

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