ECB planning to 'limit England stars' IPL availability' following Ashes defeat

[U$ofA]

Australian players also played IPL... perhaps even more players than England team. But Australia crushed Ashes. Does IPL get credit for Aus performance? I mean if Eng bad performance is blamed on IPL...shouldn't it work both ways?

Interesting question. I guess the IPL gets the blame and the credit!

 

[HitWicket]

Australian players also played IPL... perhaps even more players than England team. But Australia crushed Ashes. Does IPL get credit for Aus performance? I mean if Eng bad performance is blamed on IPL...shouldn't it work both ways?

The IPL doesn't rule Australians players out of half their FC domestic season and sometimes even home test matches/leave them going into home test matches with no preparation.

 

[Sidilicious]

IPL will take place as per the requirements of Indian cricket. IPL is a tournament for the Indian viewers and Indian cricket which has cricketers from various nations. Just like premier league has players from all over the world, but is catered for the British public.

It’s not IPL‘s fault that the IPL season falls within the County season. IPL will be held as per its own season requirements. If England decide to ban their players from playing IPL, it will hardly have an impact on IPL. No Pakistani cricketer has played in the IPL since 2008, and even though the Pakistani cricketers were arguably the best T20 talent during the first few years of the IPL it did not affect the IPL in the long run.

Now, the question is, what will the English cricketers, who lose out of the IPL riches, do? How will that impact English cricket.

 

[rvd]

Fair point, but its not like England was a great test team before the IPL except for brief periods in the Vaughan and Strauss eras.

And as we have seen, top players for India and Australia don't really play domestic cricket anymore but are still able to maintain quality test teams.

It looks like the county cricket system isn't preparing players anymore. Bayliss' tenure which focused on white ball cricket and you can explain the overall decline.

Perhaps the exit of several Kolpak players after Brexit has had an impact too.

The ECB has lots of money and a small army of staff and consultants. You would think they could identify a few prospects and groom them.

 

[silentkiller187]

Australian players also played IPL... perhaps even more players than England team. But Australia crushed Ashes. Does IPL get credit for Aus performance? I mean if Eng bad performance is blamed on IPL...shouldn't it work both ways?

Swings and roundabouts in my opinion,..

can i pose another question, we have another thread on this forum stating the indian test batting unit is the worst in a long term, would you attribute this to a shift in mindset and the fact that Indian youngsters coming through now want a quick payday rather than the hard grind? or to something else?

Just for the record i am not a critic of any league its up to each of the boards to protect their own intrests.

 

[Technics 1210]

I remember reading an article on how he woke up very early in the morning to see the auction and constantly refreshing twitter to find out what was happening. Yes, he did say life change for him. He was speaking about him. You should be able to google the article easily. I think it was on that huge cricket website if my memory serves me right.

By the way, I believe has/had a 3 year $6.3 million contract with RR.

You made the claim, lets see you Google and back up your words.

Sotkes stock went up after his Test innings at headingly, and the World Cup.

Go for it.

 

[U$ofA]

You made the claim, lets see you Google and back up your words.

Sotkes stock went up after his Test innings at headingly, and the World Cup.

Go for it.

Oh, I know his stock went up. No question about that. In fact I would have been surprised if it hadn't.

But all the same, him saying IPL contract was life changing is true as well

 

[IMMY69]

Australian players also played IPL... perhaps even more players than England team. But Australia crushed Ashes. Does IPL get credit for Aus performance? I mean if Eng bad performance is blamed on IPL...shouldn't it work both ways?

No one is saying IPL makes players into bad batsmen

 

[IMMY69]

At the time he was only on the fringes of the T20 squad. It was potentially his last opportunity to play T20 cricket and make his case to be part of the squad before the upcoming world cup.



I believe the latest IPL (at least the pre-covid schedule) was around 7 weeks but yes, he'd have earned more in that period from his England contract + match fees from the tests he didn't play as a result. That's before considering other potentially incurred costs at the time such as the fee to quarantine in a government provided hotel upon return to England.

But this doesn't really make any sense.
Especially as he pulled out of the September leg to concentrate on playing for England.

So in April/May he was a fringe player and then in September he pulled out as he he wanted to concentrate on representing England in the T20 World Cup and then the Ashes

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No one is saying IPL makes players into bad batsmen

Yeah you just have to look at current Indian batting line up as a proof.

 

[Technics 1210]

Oh, I know his stock went up. No question about that. In fact I would have been surprised if it hadn't.

But all the same, him saying IPL contract was life changing is true as well

I ask for one last time. Did Stokes say IPL contract was changing exclusive to him or no? You speak of Google, surely you can back your claim using Google?

 

[IMMY69]

I ask for one last time. Did Stokes say IPL contract was changing exclusive to him or no? You speak of Google, surely you can back your claim using Google?

I believe he said it's a life changing amount of money and went onto say that it was for him...

 

[HitWicket]

I guess he flunked math in school. If what you are saying is true, then poor on him to make the deal.

So you say that Woakes would earn more than £150k or euro 180k inn 6 weeks from the ECB contract?

But this doesn't really make any sense.
Especially as he pulled out of the September leg to concentrate on playing for England.

So in April/May he was a fringe player and then in September he pulled out as he he wanted to concentrate on representing England in the T20 World Cup and then the Ashes

Woakes pulled out of the 2nd leg a couple of days after it was confirmed he'd made it to the WT20 squad.

 

[U$ofA]

I ask for one last time. Did Stokes say IPL contract was changing exclusive to him or no? You speak of Google, surely you can back your claim using Google?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...sets-record-tymal-mills-indian-premier-league

 

[cricketjoshila]

At the time he was only on the fringes of the T20 squad. It was potentially his last opportunity to play T20 cricket and make his case to be part of the squad before the upcoming world cup.



I believe the latest IPL (at least the pre-covid schedule) was around 7 weeks but yes, he'd have earned more in that period from his England contract + match fees from the tests he didn't play as a result. That's before considering other potentially incurred costs at the time such as the fee to quarantine in a government provided hotel upon return to England.

His English contract is worth 870k euros for the entire year and he would be paid match fees only if he played the test matches. There were only 2 if i remember correctly.

Have you calculated the tax that Woakes would pay on his earnings from the ECB?

Will he be paying tax to uk from his earnings in india. In India he will only pay the TDS as he is not a resident.

All return and quarantine fees are paid by the franchisee.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Btw has anyone from the ECB said anything or is it all speculation by The Times.

 

[Rana]

Btw has anyone from the ECB said anything or is it all speculation by The Times.

The Times has more credibility than all the media outlets of India combined.

 

[HitWicket]

His English contract is worth 870k euros for the entire year and he would be paid match fees only if he played the test matches. There were only 2 if i remember correctly.

Have you calculated the tax that Woakes would pay on his earnings from the ECB?

Will he be paying tax to uk from his earnings in india. In India he will only pay the TDS as he is not a resident.

All return and quarantine fees are paid by the franchisee.

I think you've underestimated the value of his central contract, according to the mirror the value of an all formats central contract is £925,000 along with a £15,000 match fee per test (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/how-much-englands-cricket-players-20020573) and there's only been talking of this going up with the suggestion that some all format players are now on £1m+. With those 2 tests being at homes at Lords (where Woakes had an insane record) and Birmingham (his home ground) and Stokes, Curran and Archer missing he'd have been a guaranteed starter in both those tests had he not gone to the IPL.

Assuming he'd have been away at the IPL about 8 weeks in total:

Central contract lost: (56/365)* £925,000 = £142k

Match fees lost: 2*£15,000 = £30k

Giving him a total loss from participating in the IPL of approximately £22k, along with the other personal factors of a couple of months away from home of course.


He'd be taxed on his earnings in India the same way he'd be taxed on his earnings in the UK.

The quarantine fees was an added point that I wasn't sure about (he'd have earnt more staying at home regardless of them), but have you got a source showing his franchise would've paid his quarantine fee on return to the UK though?

 

[cricketjoshila]

The Times has more credibility than all the media outlets of India combined.

So who from the ECB did the times quote?

 

[Mp812]

Yeah you just have to look at current Indian batting line up as a proof.

After Gavaskars retirement in late 80s and upto Dravid/Ganguly debuts in late 90's.....a period of 10 odd years... only Tendulkar was a class batter in India/s team. All other were duds as indicated by records as well validated by people who saw that era. Was IPL around then as well?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think you've underestimated the value of his central contract, according to the mirror the value of an all formats central contract is £925,000 along with a £15,000 match fee per test (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/how-much-englands-cricket-players-20020573) and there's only been talking of this going up with the suggestion that some all format players are now on £1m+. With those 2 tests being at homes at Lords (where Woakes had an insane record) and Birmingham (his home ground) and Stokes, Curran and Archer missing he'd have been a guaranteed starter in both those tests had he not gone to the IPL.

Assuming he'd have been away at the IPL about 8 weeks in total:

Central contract lost: (56/365)* £925,000 = £142k

Match fees lost: 2*£15,000 = £30k

Giving him a total loss from participating in the IPL of approximately £22k, along with the other personal factors of a couple of months away from home of course.


He'd be taxed on his earnings in India the same way he'd be taxed on his earnings in the UK.

The quarantine fees was an added point that I wasn't sure about (he'd have earnt more staying at home regardless of them), but have you got a source showing his franchise would've paid his quarantine fee on return to the UK though?

What you are posting is 2019 figures. All ecb cricketers took a 15 per cent cut in 20-21 due to covid.

https://www.thecricketer.com/topics...ment_contract_who_has_a_central_contract.html

So actual central contract was not £925k per year. It was mostly around 800k. Secondly one gets paid test match fees if he is actually selected. You are assuming he would have played the tests.

Secondly please show a reference that players are deducted money on the basis of the number of days they play the IPL.

 

[IMMY69]

I think you've underestimated the value of his central contract, according to the mirror the value of an all formats central contract is £925,000 along with a £15,000 match fee per test (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/how-much-englands-cricket-players-20020573) and there's only been talking of this going up with the suggestion that some all format players are now on £1m+. With those 2 tests being at homes at Lords (where Woakes had an insane record) and Birmingham (his home ground) and Stokes, Curran and Archer missing he'd have been a guaranteed starter in both those tests had he not gone to the IPL.

Assuming he'd have been away at the IPL about 8 weeks in total:

Central contract lost: (56/365)* £925,000 = £142k

Match fees lost: 2*£15,000 = £30k

Giving him a total loss from participating in the IPL of approximately £22k, along with the other personal factors of a couple of months away from home of course.


He'd be taxed on his earnings in India the same way he'd be taxed on his earnings in the UK.

The quarantine fees was an added point that I wasn't sure about (he'd have earnt more staying at home regardless of them), but have you got a source showing his franchise would've paid his quarantine fee on return to the UK though?

This seems like a lot of hogwash to me.

Please can you post a genuine source that states English players don't get paid by EXB when they are on IPL duty....

Why would any sports person sign such a ludicrous contract?
Do footballers miss out on their club salaries when they report for international duty?

I would like to see the actual source of your information.

On another note, any income earned abroad is taxable in England unless you have an offshore company (tax avoidance) or there is some reciprocal tax agreement with the other country, or you are non domicile

 

[cricketjoshila]

This seems like a lot of hogwash to me.

Please can you post a genuine source that states English players don't get paid by EXB when they are on IPL duty....

Why would any sports person sign such a ludicrous contract?
Do footballers miss out on their club salaries when they report for international duty?

I would like to see the actual source of your information.

On another note, any income earned abroad is taxable in England unless you have an offshore company (tax avoidance) or there is some reciprocal tax agreement with the other country, or you are non domicile

India and UK have a double tax avoidance treaty. No?

 

[Technics 1210]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...sets-record-tymal-mills-indian-premier-league

Err this is BEFORE Stokes' Headingly and World Cup heroics. I clearly mentioned Stokes was earning more in endorsements after said achievements.

 

[HitWicket]

What you are posting is 2019 figures. All ecb cricketers took a 15 per cent cut in 20-21 due to covid.

https://www.thecricketer.com/topics...ment_contract_who_has_a_central_contract.html

So actual central contract was not £925k per year. It was mostly around 800k. Secondly one gets paid test match fees if he is actually selected. You are assuming he would have played the tests.

Secondly please show a reference that players are deducted money on the basis of the number of days they play the IPL.

Fair enough. But that's a one off pay cut that still wouldn't have resulted in Woakes profiting from that IPL season.

Centrally contracted players are deducted 1 days salary for every day they're at the IPL, before Strauss took over it was 0.5% of their salary per day: http://preview.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/06/02/england-players-agree-new-pay-deal-keep-ipl-wages/.

Woakes was pretty much a dead certain to play those 2 tests if he hadn't gone to the IPL.

 

[HitWicket]

This seems like a lot of hogwash to me.

Please can you post a genuine source that states English players don't get paid by EXB when they are on IPL duty....

Why would any sports person sign such a ludicrous contract?
Do footballers miss out on their club salaries when they report for international duty?

I would like to see the actual source of your information.

On another note, any income earned abroad is taxable in England unless you have an offshore company (tax avoidance) or there is some reciprocal tax agreement with the other country, or you are non domicile

Sure, England players are deducted a days salary for each day they're at the IPL (this was previously higher), as referred to here: http://preview.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/06/02/england-players-agree-new-pay-deal-keep-ipl-wages/.

The players are being played to play for England and play English domestic cricket. They're not doing that therefore they aren't paid for the period of time where they aren't fulfilling that role. Footballs a very different case because of the different relationship between domestic and international football and the fact that international teams don't cover the club salaries of their contracted players. If a player went missing for half the season for his club to go play some football elsewhere you'd expect the club to dock his salary.

Just to clarify I agree with what you're saying regarding tax. When I said he'd be taxed in the same way I meant he'd be taxed in the UK the same way on his local income to his income earned in India (and only once).

 

[IMMY69]

Sure, England players are deducted a days salary for each day they're at the IPL (this was previously higher), as referred to here: http://preview.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/06/02/england-players-agree-new-pay-deal-keep-ipl-wages/.

The players are being played to play for England and play English domestic cricket. They're not doing that therefore they aren't paid for the period of time where they aren't fulfilling that role. Footballs a very different case because of the different relationship between domestic and international football and the fact that international teams don't cover the club salaries of their contracted players. If a player went missing for half the season for his club to go play some football elsewhere you'd expect the club to dock his salary.

Just to clarify I agree with what you're saying regarding tax. When I said he'd be taxed in the same way I meant he'd be taxed in the UK the same way on his local income to his income earned in India (and only once).

But it's proportional, I.e each days salary over 6 weeks in a 12 month contract is negligible when compared to what you earn from a franchise contract...

Even those on lower contracts would forgoe 50 days or their salary.
Do you see?

 

[IMMY69]

[MENTION=139981]HitWicket[/MENTION]

Just as a rough example...

If a player has a central contract worth £350k gross per year then let's say his gross daily salary over 50 days is £60k... but if his Franchise contract for the same period is 150k then you can see how much more money he makes by choosing franchise cricket for that window.

 

[U$ofA]

Err this is BEFORE Stokes' Headingly and World Cup heroics. I clearly mentioned Stokes was earning more in endorsements after said achievements.

I was merely mentioning that he said IPL money was Life Changing. His endorsement income now does not change that. He may be earning more now, probably even more after the upcoming IPL auction. But the fact is he did say that. And that is all I was conveying in my post.

 

[Varun]

I was merely mentioning that he said IPL money was Life Changing. His endorsement income now does not change that. He may be earning more now, probably even more after the upcoming IPL auction. But the fact is he did say that. And that is all I was conveying in my post.

Okay, the money he received was life changing. His life has now changed after he's played 5-7 IPL seasons.

Why is he still going back and not giving his 100% for England?

 

[U$ofA]

Okay, the money he received was life changing. His life has now changed after he's played 5-7 IPL seasons.

Why is he still going back and not giving his 100% for England?

Very good question. A question that should be posed to him.

 

[HitWicket]

But it's proportional, I.e each days salary over 6 weeks in a 12 month contract is negligible when compared to what you earn from a franchise contract...

Even those on lower contracts would forgoe 50 days or their salary.
Do you see?

I think you missed some of the earlier points in the discussion? We were discussing Woakes' specific case last season. The loss of his central contract salary for 8 weeks away at the IPL and the match fees for the 2 tests he missed as a result would be higher than what he was getting from the IPL for being there.

 

[Devadwal]

Report- Joe Root considering to put his name in the IPL 2022 Mega Auction. Lol

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Report- Joe Root considering to put his name in the IPL 2022 Mega Auction. Lol

It's certainly on the table' - Starc contemplates return to the IPL.
It will be interesting to see if Root gets picked. Starc for sure will get picked for good chunk of money if he opts for it.

 

[Varun]

It's certainly on the table' - Starc contemplates return to the IPL.
It will be interesting to see if Root gets picked. Starc for sure will get picked for good chunk of money if he opts for it.

Root tried to get in last time too, but the IPl didn't want him.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...for-playing-schedule-overhaul-Update-Post-108

 

[Titan24]

Not sure how this will make a difference unless the performance or lack of it is based upon fatigue (A 2 month or so long T20 tournament definitely does not help with that especially with bubbles and everything). Resting some of the key players for one reason or another during the tour of India was really astonishing stuff and that was done based upon the workload management while the same players played the whole IPL. That definitely raised questions from a lot of experts even at that time.

England is lacking quality in their county championship and discussed that topic by giving possible solutions in another thread.

Unless fatigue has been the cause the current rumored plan might not be able to turn the fortunes around but, would definitely take some workload off. England players did not play IPL for quite a long time, so don't think there will be some big retaliation if ECB limits their participation again.

 

[Devadwal]

Their test caption desperately want a IPL contract but arm chair pundits think other way .lol

 

[HitWicket]

Their test caption desperately want a IPL contract but arm chair pundits think other way .lol

If Root desperately wanted an IPL contract he'd have already entered the auction for next season and wouldn't have only ever done it once during his career so far.

 

[Titan24]

Report- Joe Root considering to put his name in the IPL 2022 Mega Auction. Lol

I raised the point in the "IPL adding two teams" related thread that there aren't 40-60 (Will be required for a 10 team tournament) really high quality overseas T20 players available for any league including IPL which gets a separate window. So we might see quality of the tournament declining a little as teams will have to consider players which are not that great T20 players but, will atleast add something.

With 8 teams quality of overseas players with a separate window was as good as it gets but, with 10 teams some compromises will have to be made in terms of overall quality. At the same time understandable that BCCI wanted to get more potential revenue flowing in but, the cost might be reduction in quality.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If Root desperately wanted an IPL contract he'd have already entered the auction for next season and wouldn't have only ever done it once during his career so far.

He was unsold in IPL. IPL teams didn't want him.

But now with 2 new teams, his chances are better.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's certainly on the table' - Starc contemplates return to the IPL.
It will be interesting to see if Root gets picked. Starc for sure will get picked for good chunk of money if he opts for it.

10 teams. Bigger pool money and the number of quality international players is limited. Expect quiet a few million dollar contracts.

 

[HitWicket]

He was unsold in IPL. IPL teams didn't want him.

But now with 2 new teams, his chances are better.

Yes, I fail to see what that relevance of that is to what I said in that post though?

 

[Devadwal]

I raised the point in the "IPL adding two teams" related thread that there aren't 40-60 (Will be required for a 10 team tournament) really high quality overseas T20 players available for any league including IPL which gets a separate window. So we might see quality of the tournament declining a little as teams will have to consider players which are not that great T20 players but, will atleast add something.

With 8 teams quality of overseas players with a separate window was as good as it gets but, with 10 teams some compromises will have to be made in terms of overall quality. At the same time understandable that BCCI wanted to get more potential revenue flowing in but, the cost might be reduction in quality.

No ,IPL quality never going to decrease due to increase of team .all team have more than 2-3 overseas star player's who don't even get a game to play due to team have so many overseas quality players .

 

[Rana]

No ,IPL quality never going to decrease due to increase of team .all team have more than 2-3 overseas star player's who don't even get a game to play due to team have so many overseas quality players .

The IPL quality is still average with the best overseas players playing in each side. It’s like saying the mediocrity will now spread into 10 teams instead of 8.

 

[Devadwal]

The IPL quality is still average with the best overseas players playing in each side. It’s like saying the mediocrity will now spread into 10 teams instead of 8.

Do you even know that Malan ,Roy , Warner , Livingston ,Morris ,Smith ,Woakes( only few examples) etc did not Play enough game due to team have so many overseas player's .

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes, I fail to see what that relevance of that is to what I said in that post though?

Root did want a IPL contract but knew he wont be picked. So now when the window opens to sign up for new auctions he would sign up.

 

[Titan24]

Do you even know that Malan ,Roy , Warner , Livingston ,Morris ,Smith ,Woakes( only few examples) etc did not Play enough game due to team have so many overseas player's .

Its all but, natural for the quality to suffer a bit when you increase the number of teams while the quality overseas talent pool (With international performances under their belt) remain somewhat similar.

There are around 6-7 overseas players in the squad if I am not wrong, even if a player or two doesnt play all the matches as only 4 overseas players can play they make it competitive for the team by just being on the bench as solid backups.

The names you mentioned were able to rest/replaced for one reason or another because the backups had certain quality as well. At the same time its a fact that quite a few uncapped overseas players with not much performances or reputation behind them got opportunities in the XIs of the 8 teams IPL because as mentioned despite a separate window there are only limited top quality proven international players.

I am not saying the league is going to suffer really big time in terms of overseas and overall T20 quality (It will have to be seen by the people who closely follow it) but, I believe a decrease in T20 quality to an extent will possibly be there.

 

[HitWicket]

Root did want a IPL contract but knew he wont be picked. So now when the window opens to sign up for new auctions he would sign up.

If he was 'desperate' to be picked he would have entered the auction at every opportunity he got (and probably not at a high base price) and would have already entered this years auction.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If he was 'desperate' to be picked he would have entered the auction at every opportunity he got (and probably not at a high base price) and would have already entered this years auction.

He can only enter this years auction when it opens. Just because he is the English captain, he doesn't get any extra privilege.

He entered the auction, got rejected. So he waited for the mega auctions as there are more chances of him being picked now.

 

[HitWicket]

He can only enter this years auction when it opens. Just because he is the English captain, he doesn't get any extra privilege.

He entered the auction, got rejected. So he waited for the mega auctions as there are more chances of him being picked now.

Submissions of player lists for the auction close at the end of this week, Root had said he hasn't decided whether to enter yet indicating he hasn't put his name on that list yet.

Again, if someone was 'desperate' to participate they'd put their name down for the auction at every opportunity.

 

[Technics 1210]

Oh my days. It seems to me IPL apologists are afraid of losing English players from the motherland! Sums up the quality of IPL - mediocre at best.

Moving on! The point is not IPL per se, but the availability of English players for Test cricket. This point is in the OP, and in English.

Ask these cheap and cheerful IPL apologists who dance to the tune of the - fair and lovely - cheer leaders how they would feel if Kohli or Bhumra were not available for a test series because they were playing in the Big Bash et al and you will receive a deafening silence cloaked in hypocrisy.

Nuff said.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Submissions of player lists for the auction close at the end of this week, Root had said he hasn't decided whether to enter yet indicating he hasn't put his name on that list yet.

Again, if someone was 'desperate' to participate they'd put their name down for the auction at every opportunity.

You will want to save face if you have been rejected once, and you are captain of a top team. Hence only putting his name if he has a chance to get picked.

 

[MenInG]

David Gower on BT Sport:

"Joe Root finds himself with people unavailable, because where are they? The IPL. What good is that for English Test cricket?!

This is the oldest, more important form of the game, we need to defend it."

 

[cricketjoshila]

David Gower on BT Sport:

"Joe Root finds himself with people unavailable, because where are they? The IPL. What good is that for English Test cricket?!

This is the oldest, more important form of the game, we need to defend it."

Burns
Hameed
Root
Anderson
Broad
Leach
Crawley
Lawrence
Overton
Pope
Robinson

How many IPL games have they played?

 

[U$ofA]

David Gower on BT Sport:

"Joe Root finds himself with people unavailable, because where are they? The IPL. What good is that for English Test cricket?!

This is the oldest, more important form of the game, we need to defend it."

Don't understand what Gower is saying. If it is the most important form then why does it need defending. People/fans would/should already know this.

If the fans are not giving it importance and more interested in T20 format, then guess what, T20 is the most important form. The fans determine what is important with their $$$ and eyeballs.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

I don't watch IPL but if I'm not wrong only Buttler, Bairstow, Archer, Stokes from the England test XI feature in IPL. The rest are Morgan and co who just play white ball cricket. Are England suggesting that because of these 4 players playing in IPL their test cricket is in tatters? Sounds like lies and excuses to me. What about the hundred? Isn't that competition destroying their test cricket?

 

[Rajdeep]

I don't watch IPL but if I'm not wrong only Buttler, Bairstow, Archer, Stokes from the England test XI feature in IPL. The rest are Morgan and co who just play white ball cricket. Are England suggesting that because of these 4 players playing in IPL their test cricket is in tatters? Sounds like lies and excuses to me. What about the hundred? Isn't that competition destroying their test cricket?

And all 4 - Buttler, Bairstow, Archer and Stokes didnt feature in last IPL. Basically entire Eng team playing this Ashes didnt play the last IPL. So Joe Root has everyone available for him. Its a silly excuse from Gower but the bottomline is Eng was never good enough in Australia.

 

[HitWicket]

I don't watch IPL but if I'm not wrong only Buttler, Bairstow, Archer, Stokes from the England test XI feature in IPL. The rest are Morgan and co who just play white ball cricket. Are England suggesting that because of these 4 players playing in IPL their test cricket is in tatters? Sounds like lies and excuses to me. What about the hundred? Isn't that competition destroying their test cricket?

+ Woakes, Malan, Wood. The issue being suggested isn't as simple as you've put it, there's a variety of contributing factors for this specific issue. The first of them is clearly players missing test matches to play in/be rested at the end of the IPL. Another is players going straight into test matches off the back of the IPL, which clearly isn't ideal preparation for a test match in England. Another issue is players missing half the domestic FC season because of the IPL not only affecting their own FC game but also lowering the standard of opposition others face. This also means people who were previously test prospects (such as for example Liam Livingstone) barely end up playing any FC cricket.

 

[cricketerB94]

Don't understand what Gower is saying. If it is the most important form then why does it need defending. People/fans would/should already know this.

If the fans are not giving it importance and more interested in T20 format, then guess what, T20 is the most important form. The fans determine what is important with their $$$ and eyeballs.

LOL! After the T20 WC 2021, most of the Indian fans were saying that they would easily trade a T20 WC trophy with a Test series winning trophy in Australia. If T20 is the most important form, and IPL is the biggest T20 franchise competition, then India should have won atleast a couple of T20 Worldcups after 2007, no?

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Burns
Hameed
Root
Anderson
Broad
Leach
Crawley
Lawrence
Overton
Pope
Robinson

How many IPL games have they played?

Stokes
Buttler
Bairstow
Wood (?)
Woakes
Archer

These are all centrally contracted players who pick the IPL over international games and their domestic season.

I know for a fact that you’d sound exactly like David Gower if Kohli, Sharma, Bumrah, Rahul, Pant and Shami were all playing in T20 leagues whilst the Indian team was playing an International series.

Their players put all their energy into the IPL, get injured and miss out on games for England.

Also, they’ll be fine travelling alone and living in the IPL bio-secure bubble but when it comes to the Ashes, they can’t go to Australia without their families?

 

[Varun]

Stokes
Buttler
Bairstow
Wood (?)
Woakes
Archer

These are all centrally contracted players who pick the IPL over international games and their domestic season.

I know for a fact that you’d sound exactly like David Gower if Kohli, Sharma, Bumrah, Rahul, Pant and Shami were all playing in T20 leagues whilst the Indian team was playing an International series.

Their players put all their energy into the IPL, get injured and miss out on games for England.

Also, they’ll be fine travelling alone and living in the IPL bio-secure bubble but when it comes to the Ashes, they can’t go to Australia without their families?

The ECB should ban them from England cricket forever. If they want to be mercenaries, let them.

Then again the ECB have their ulterior motives with these mercenaries too - like Jofra Archer or Kevin Pietersen in years past.

 

[Rajdeep]

Stokes
Buttler
Bairstow
Wood (?)
Woakes
Archer

These are all centrally contracted players who pick the IPL over international games and their domestic season.

I know for a fact that you’d sound exactly like David Gower if Kohli, Sharma, Bumrah, Rahul, Pant and Shami were all playing in T20 leagues whilst the Indian team was playing an International series.

Their players put all their energy into the IPL, get injured and miss out on games for England.

Also, they’ll be fine travelling alone and living in the IPL bio-secure bubble but when it comes to the Ashes, they can’t go to Australia without their families?

Which test match did likes of Stokes, Archer, Buttler etc. missed for IPL? There is a separate window given to the IPL...so no question of missing any series.

None of the English players playing this Ashes played the last IPL. So the question of IPL bio bubble and coming straight to Ashes dont arrive. What explains this poor performance then?

Excuse...Excuse...Excuse

Infact many Australian players who won the Ashes were playing in IPL in September. Then they went onto win the T20 WC and now the Ashes.

Indian team went to Australia last year under strict bio bubble straight from IPL and went onto win the test series.

So if the team is good...it will win.

English pundits cant accept the fact that they got humiliated in Australia yet again like they always does. Previously they didn't had anyone to blame when Vaughan, Artherton or Nasser's team regularly used to get blanked there. But now they have got a scapegoat in IPL to hide from their own deficiency.

 

[Varun]

Oh my days. It seems to me IPL apologists are afraid of losing English players from the motherland! Sums up the quality of IPL - mediocre at best.

Moving on! The point is not IPL per se, but the availability of English players for Test cricket. This point is in the OP, and in English.

Ask these cheap and cheerful IPL apologists who dance to the tune of the - fair and lovely - cheer leaders how they would feel if Kohli or Bhumra were not available for a test series because they were playing in the Big Bash et al and you will receive a deafening silence cloaked in hypocrisy.

Nuff said.

Unfortunately the biggest IPL apologists seem to be the English cricketers themselves.

 

[HitWicket]

Which test match did likes of Stokes, Archer, Buttler etc. missed for IPL? There is a separate window given to the IPL...so no question of missing any series.

None of the English players playing this Ashes played the last IPL. So the question of IPL bio bubble and coming straight to Ashes dont arrive. What explains this poor performance then?

Excuse...Excuse...Excuse

Infact many Australian players who won the Ashes were playing in IPL in September. Then they went onto win the T20 WC and now the Ashes.

Indian team went to Australia last year under strict bio bubble straight from IPL and went onto win the test series.

So if the team is good...it will win.

English pundits cant accept the fact that they got humiliated in Australia yet again like they always does. Previously they didn't had anyone to blame when Vaughan, Artherton or Nasser's team regularly used to get blanked there. But now they have got a scapegoat in IPL to hide from their own deficiency.

Just to double check, do you believe all of these statements to be true then:

- Players missing home test matches (whether through unavailability or requirement for rest) to play domestic T20 cricket in India will have no impact on the quality of English test cricket.

- Players missing the majority of domestic FC cricket they'd be available for outside of their international commitments will have no impact on their FC cricket skills.

- Players playing test matches immediately off the back of T20 in India will be better prepared for a test match in England than if they were instead playing FC cricket in England just beforehand instead.

- FC Domestic players won't develop better by playing against better standard opposition.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

The ECB should ban them from England cricket forever. If they want to be mercenaries, let them.

Then again the ECB have their ulterior motives with these mercenaries too - like Jofra Archer or Kevin Pietersen in years past.

And be in BCCI’s bad books? No chance.

I just find it funny though, the English pundits were for years moaning about how the English players weren’t getting picked in the IPL and how the lack of exposure was the reason why they were a poor LOI team, now they’re moaning about players prioritising leagues over the national team.

 

[cricketerB94]

I don't think that the issue is participation in IPL here. I think that the issue is the level of commitment. Players should take this league or any other franchise league as a fun tournament and their thinking should be to have a bit of fun and head back home and show your real commitment for the home team and international matches.

What we see currently is the other way round from the Eng or SA players. Their level of commitment is very high in IPL, but during that, they get too much fatigued, or sometimes injured and not able to perform well for their home team.

I think that only the Australian players take it as a fun tournament at the moment, and do not try to apply themselves too much in IPL. For example, Warner was on bench in the 2nd leg of last IPL, but when it came to Australian team, he was their best performer in same conditions. Starc does not even register for the IPL. Other Australian players also do not show a lot of commitment when it comes to IPL and they just take it as fun. They do not injure themselves or get too much fatigued after the IPL, and that is why they are able to play well for their home team after IPL.

 

[Rajdeep]

Just to double check, do you believe all of these statements to be true then:

- Players missing home test matches (whether through unavailability or requirement for rest) to play domestic T20 cricket in India will have no impact on the quality of English test cricket.

- Players missing the majority of domestic FC cricket they'd be available for outside of their international commitments will have no impact on their FC cricket skills.

- Players playing test matches immediately off the back of T20 in India will be better prepared for a test match in England than if they were instead playing FC cricket in England just beforehand instead.

- FC Domestic players won't develop better by playing against better standard opposition.

Again, which test match did English players missed due to the IPL? I don't recall any.

Last year when NZ toured Eng to play couple of test matches before WTC finals, English players left IPL and went back home to participate in it.

As far as missing domestic FC cricket is concerned, that was always on the cards with modern hectic cricket schedule with 3 formats and now more so with covid. And its not restricted to English players. I dont even remember last time any Indian main players (Kohli, Rohit etc.) have even played Ranji cricket. Does top players like Babar Azam or Shaheen Afridi played QEA trophy every season?

We need to keep up with modern cricket and there is simply any time for top players to fluctuate between domestic & international cricket. T20 leagues is here to stay and international teams need to manage players better.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Which test match did likes of Stokes, Archer, Buttler etc. missed for IPL? There is a separate window given to the IPL...so no question of missing any series.

None of the English players playing this Ashes played the last IPL. So the question of IPL bio bubble and coming straight to Ashes dont arrive. What explains this poor performance then?

Excuse...Excuse...Excuse

Infact many Australian players who won the Ashes were playing in IPL in September. Then they went onto win the T20 WC and now the Ashes.

Indian team went to Australia last year under strict bio bubble straight from IPL and went onto win the test series.

So if the team is good...it will win.

English pundits cant accept the fact that they got humiliated in Australia yet again like they always does. Previously they didn't had anyone to blame when Vaughan, Artherton or Nasser's team regularly used to get blanked there. But now they have got a scapegoat in IPL to hide from their own deficiency.

Did you miss the second last paragraph in my post? Why was Stokes not playing in this years T20 WC? Was it because he got injured in the IPL?

Rajdeep, I’m sure you’d be pretty unhappy if Kohli was missing the domestic first class season just to play in T20 leagues.

The centrally contracted England players who are struggling in the longer formats SHOULD be playing the county season to regain form. You CANNOT regain form in red ball cricket by playing in T20 leagues. Does that make sense?

 

[Rajdeep]

Did you miss the second last paragraph in my post? Why was Stokes not playing in this years T20 WC? Was it because he got injured in the IPL?

Rajdeep, I’m sure you’d be pretty unhappy if Kohli was missing the domestic first class season just to play in T20 leagues.

The centrally contracted England players who are struggling in the longer formats SHOULD be playing the county season to regain form. You CANNOT regain form in red ball cricket by playing in T20 leagues. Does that make sense?

Nope Sir...Stokes didn't even play in the IPL. He didn't play IPL/WT20 because he was suffering from mental health issues. That has nothing to do with IPL.

Having said that, can a player get injured in IPL? Of course they can. Just like a player can get injured in international cricket or in net practice. Its sports after all.

What is worrysome is blaming an Ashes defeat on IPL when not a single player from that Ashes squad was even a part of last IPL. This is just absurd.

As far as Kohli missing domestic cricket is concerned, dont worry he has never played one since he made his debut for India..LOL.

Modern players simply dont have time to play both domestic and international games.

 

[Pakhs]

Playing less IPL will help but not really solve the problem.. The league cricket has meant England players have concentrated on power hitting and no recent good test player has come form England.

Bu this includes all league cricket not just IPL.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

You must be new to this forum and may be cricket as well. I have posted and gave so many reasons behind this over the past couple of years. Dig some of my old posts. I am not going to repeat myself for someone who can't differentiate between today's cricket and cricket before IPL came into existence.

Watched enough cricket before the net came into existence, champ. No one's digging your old posts or would feel the need to. I never said the IPL is the be all and end all or that its beneficial to cricket. am not even a fan of it, i'd rather watch any nation play aanyone in tests.
But I maintain that the common tired narrative of the big 3, IPL and by extension the bcci are the root cause of all evil in the world of cricket is a common excuse for commenting on whatever your team's most recent results, your fav players in the ranking ladder, the FTP program, the reasons why we cant end the virus, global warming, beached whales etc.
And you still didnt give the reasons as to why the Annual Triangular ODI series in Aus stopped in 2008

BEFORE

the IPL came into existence.

or why did'nt it attract enough crowds in those triangular series in the games which aus was not playing. After all cricketing life was super hunky dory before the IPL began was'tn it.

 

[HitWicket]

Again, which test match did English players missed due to the IPL? I don't recall any.

Last year when NZ toured Eng to play couple of test matches before WTC finals, English players left IPL and went back home to participate in it.

As far as missing domestic FC cricket is concerned, that was always on the cards with modern hectic cricket schedule with 3 formats and now more so with covid. And its not restricted to English players. I dont even remember last time any Indian main players (Kohli, Rohit etc.) have even played Ranji cricket. Does top players like Babar Azam or Shaheen Afridi played QEA trophy every season?

We need to keep up with modern cricket and there is simply any time for top players to fluctuate between domestic & international cricket. T20 leagues is here to stay and international teams need to manage players better.

All England players at the IPL last year were rested for the NZ tests, originally (before COVID cut the first half short) they weren't just going to be rested but were going to be unavailable for the series.

The issue isn't just the 'main players'. You end up with numerous fringe players also missing a large chunk of their opportunity to play FC cricket and therefore not advancing their game for test cricket (and also lowering the general standard). The best example of this recently would be Liam Livingstone who just a few years back was touted as a test prospect. Now he barely gets the opportunity to play FC cricket.

 

[U$ofA]

Stokes
Buttler
Bairstow
Wood (?)
Woakes
Archer

These are all centrally contracted players who pick the IPL over international games and their domestic season.

I know for a fact that you’d sound exactly like David Gower if Kohli, Sharma, Bumrah, Rahul, Pant and Shami were all playing in T20 leagues whilst the Indian team was playing an International series.

Their players put all their energy into the IPL, get injured and miss out on games for England.

Also, they’ll be fine travelling alone and living in the IPL bio-secure bubble but when it comes to the Ashes, they can’t go to Australia without their families?

We all know why this happens. Perhaps if the ECB paid them as much as what the IPL pays, then they would consider. Right now you cannot they are choosing their financial present and future as their priority.

The ECB should ban them from England cricket forever. If they want to be mercenaries, let them.

Then again the ECB have their ulterior motives with these mercenaries too - like Jofra Archer or Kevin Pietersen in years past.

But the ECB is the one giving the NOC's. So how can they complain or ban anyone?

 

[U$ofA]

And be in BCCI’s bad books? No chance.

I just find it funny though, the English pundits were for years moaning about how the English players weren’t getting picked in the IPL and how the lack of exposure was the reason why they were a poor LOI team, now they’re moaning about players prioritising leagues over the national team.

You are right. Also, the ECB cannot issue NOC's, pocket money from IPL for issuing the NOC and then turn around and ban them from playing. Be it for Eng or IPL.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There's no doubt that IPL is affecting certain players' performances for their national side. Indian players themselves were clearly burnt out playing the T20 World Cup after the IPL.

But thing is that guys like Joe Root, Haseeb Hameed, Rory Burns, Zak Crawley, Ollie Pope, James Anderson, Stuart Broad, Jack Leach, Ollie Robinson, Dom Bess, Craig Overton, Dan Lawrence do not play in the IPL.

Mark Wood didn't play the last edition altogether.

While Stokes, Buttler, Bairstow, Malan and Woakes all pulled out of the second leg of the last IPL.

Boards should definitely ponder over the participation of their players in the IPL, especially if it is affecting their performance for their national team. But England needs to find a better excuse for the drubbing they just received in Australia.

For starters maybe they should start looking at the rubbish standard of their county pitches that are conditioned to produce 130kph bowlers who can never trouble batsmen with the kind of pace and bounce that you get in Australia from Australian fast-bowlers.

 

[Last Monetarist]

So it appears Stokes and Root have withdrawn from the IPL auction.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/17/ben-stokes-set-to-join-joe-root-in-not-taking-part-in-this-years-ipl-england-cricket

Ben Stokes is set to join Joe Root in making himself unavailable for this year’s Indian Premier League auction following England’s Ashes defeat in Australia. The all-rounder has featured in the last four seasons of the lucrative Twenty20 tournament, playing for the now defunct Rising Pune Supergiant franchise on a £1.7m deal in 2017 – and winning the MVP award – before joining Rajasthan Royals the following year for £1.3m.

Stokes was released by the Royals after missing the bulk of last year’s campaign through injury, but as a fast bowling all-rounder he was expected to attract another bumper contract when the world’s best players go under the hammer on 12 and 13 February. However, amid an ever-crunched international schedule made even more gruelling by the pandemic, and having only returned from a four-month break to address a finger injury and his mental health before the recent Ashes campaign, the 30-year-old is understood not to have registered his name for 2022.

Root stated a similar intention to turn down the IPL after the 146-run loss in the fifth Test in Hobart and though he went unsold in 2018 – his only previous time in the auction – and a buyer was not guaranteed, the creation of two new teams with a combined 16 overseas berths had increased the possibility.

“There’s a lot that we need to do for this [Test] team, which deserves all of my energy,” said Root. “I’ll keep sacrificing as much as I can because I care so much about Test cricket in our country and trying to get us to where we want to be.”

England’s relationship with the IPL – unique in world cricket due to its overlap with the home summer – has thawed in recent times such that Test players who held deals were rested by the national set-up during last year’s packed winter schedule and also missed the belatedly-scheduled home series against New Zealand.

A heavy Ashes defeat means centrally-contracted players are set to be limited in terms of their IPL availability this year. The tournament starts on 3 April, less than a week after a three-Test series in the Caribbean ends on 28 March, while its final is slated for 3 June, the day after England’s home Test series versus New Zealand begins.

 

[silentkiller187]

So Ben stokes becomes the first English man to declare himself out of the next ipl to focus on red ball cricket, let's see how many more follow suit

 

[Technics 1210]

IPL apologists afraid of lesser foreign involvement.

How many Indians got the sand to accept their national Indian players should be made unavailable for national duties in favour of money and cheer leaders tamasha leagues? The answer? A resounding ZERO.

It's clear as daylight folks.

IPL is on the decline. No foreign players, no IPL. FACT.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

I wonder if ECB is mulling paying these guys money to sit out 1 season, would be some way to save face amongst fans while get players to agree to sitting out too. I mean after all ECB CEO is cashing out millions despite this debacle, so why not players too?

 

[U$ofA]

I wonder if ECB is mulling paying these guys money to sit out 1 season, would be some way to save face amongst fans while get players to agree to sitting out too. I mean after all ECB CEO is cashing out millions despite this debacle, so why not players too?

I think it will be sort of a PR disaster if the ECB let's its players in the IPL after the Ashes debacle. But I think as of now a dozen or so Eng players are registered for the auction. Which means the ECB has/will issue NOC for them if picked.