Electric Vehicles: Why aren't they more popular?

[shaz619]

i think the general car trends are disastrous, u have multi million dollar hypercars doing 0-60 in 2s, which is stupid, and you have base models costing nearly £50k for a semi decent motor.

the hypercar trend is the worst thing in history, they give nothing to car culture, and have killed the car enthusiast. a loaded 5 series is now 60k new, 60k for a exec family car, mental.

wheres the £30k car that some kid can dream abt getting his hands on with a decent wage and some finance. its not surprising car racing films and games have died. i dont think kids fantasise about affordable cars like back in the day. my dream motor when i was in my teens was a mk4 supra TT, remember it was around £10k fifteen years ago, now... £50k for mint condition.

ironically toyota, with its GR models, even if over priced are one of the last bastions of the enthusiast car. everyone else is just bean counting.

Yes the inflated prices are mental, the M3 should have been an affordable performance car you can daily, and it’s pushing 100k from new. Never wise to enter debt over this. And while some of those classic dream cars have gone up, there are still some bargains to be had imo in the E46 range besides the M badge, and perhaps other Mk4 supra models; I usually don’t worry too much about the mileage if it has been maintained well, in this country once you exceed 100k value just plummets, I try and find cars just over this mark which have been looked after. Yes, I’ve heard that about the GR it’s a fine piece of kit, what about Porche ignoring the price? unlike other manufacturers their EPAS is the best and they don’t look too bad I must say and I think could be wrong, they still make or made NA engines longer then the rest.

Great point about the car culture and movies, they are so numb to feeling anything from driving those hyper-cars that it’s not really a pleasurable experience but something which is more about making a superficial point, getting high and getting to a specific speed and nothing else.

The last great car movie I watched was Ford vs Ferrari, not much has been on since then but I look forward to F1 starring Brad Pitt; same director who made Top Gun Maverick so I am looking forward to it.

Btw some of the sentiment in your post is captured well in ‘The Bikeriders’ movie starring Tom Hardy, I really enjoyed, I think only petrol heads and other true car enthusiasts will understand the movie, great watch.

 

[ElRaja]

Yes the inflated prices are mental, the M3 should have been an affordable performance car you can daily, and it’s pushing 100k from new. Never wise to enter debt over this. And while some of those classic dream cars have gone up, there are still some bargains to be had imo in the E46 range besides the M badge, and perhaps other Mk4 supra models; I usually don’t worry too much about the mileage if it has been maintained well, in this country once you exceed 100k value just plummets, I try and find cars just over this mark which have been looked after. Yes, I’ve heard that about the GR it’s a fine piece of kit, what about Porche ignoring the price? unlike other manufacturers their EPAS is the best and they don’t look too bad I must say and I think could be wrong, they still make or made NA engines longer then the rest.

Great point about the car culture and movies, they are so numb to feeling anything from driving those hyper-cars that it’s not really a pleasurable experience but something which is more about making a superficial point, getting high and getting to a specific speed and nothing else.

The last great car movie I watched was Ford vs Ferrari, not much has been on since then but I look forward to F1 starring Brad Pitt; same director who made Top Gun Maverick so I am looking forward to it.

Btw some of the sentiment in your post is captured well in ‘The Bikeriders’ movie starring Tom Hardy, I really enjoyed, I think only petrol heads and other true car enthusiasts will understand the movie, great watch.

dont get me started on porsches, i got to drive a gt3rs around their test track last year and im still buzzing of the experience, and peeved i dont have 200k to drop on one, which compared to the price tags on other hyper cars is a relative steal now, lol. i saw a white a green gt3rs the other other, white with green trim, absolutely gorgeous, might go book another track day just to get that feeling again. its the most amazing car ive ever driven, makes a gallardo feel like a lawn mower and a Nissan gtr like a boat, lol. tiny steering wheel like playing a video game, grip for days, my instructor kept telling me to drive more aggressive, and they had metal apex bollards lol. i realised that day I do not have racing driver reflexes or balls, lol. my first experience of a real engine as a kid was standing next to an old carrera rs 2.7 with a turbo, like someone opening the gates of hell, still remember the sound, absolutely mental.

totally agree on ford v ferrari, loved it, i used to be a big fast and furious fan back in the day, but now the scripts are dumb, and dont make sense cos the street racing and modding scene is totally dead. i remember get max power magazine, and it was all modded Japanese cars. even the max power brand died.

will check out that film, sounds cool.

 

[shaz619]

dont get me started on porsches, i got to drive a gt3rs around their test track last year and im still buzzing of the experience, and peeved i dont have 200k to drop on one, which compared to the price tags on other hyper cars is a relative steal now, lol. i saw a white a green gt3rs the other other, white with green trim, absolutely gorgeous, might go book another track day just to get that feeling again. its the most amazing car ive ever driven, makes a gallardo feel like a lawn mower and a Nissan gtr like a boat, lol. tiny steering wheel like playing a video game, grip for days, my instructor kept telling me to drive more aggressive, and they had metal apex bollards lol. i realised that day I do not have racing driver reflexes or balls, lol. my first experience of a real engine as a kid was standing next to an old carrera rs 2.7 with a turbo, like someone opening the gates of hell, still remember the sound, absolutely mental.

totally agree on ford v ferrari, loved it, i used to be a big fast and furious fan back in the day, but now the scripts are dumb, and dont make sense cos the street racing and modding scene is totally dead. i remember get max power magazine, and it was all modded Japanese cars. even the max power brand died.

will check out that film, sounds cool.

Am getting an adrenaline rush just thinking about that track day you had I certainly need to try it, I’ve been looking into E30 M3 experiences to but that GTR has to be another one my bucket list, is it relatively straight forward to book? And I completely agree with you, I think Porsche are the only manufacturer now who make a drivers car and have taken over from BMW as the ‘Ultimate Driving Machine’, haha we need company car schemes for these kinda cars. Great picture there, it’s absolutely stunning and I hate the looks of pretty much every other modern car so that’s something, it may also just be the inherent styling based on the OG 911 to. Did you by any chance drive the classic 911? would be an interesting comparison for sure.

Yes mate the FNF movies are complete useless, the initial few were good but when the car culture suffered a slow and painful death, the standard of movies declined as well.

Explores what the bike culture use to be and what it became, can be applied to the cars as well:

Them Harley-Davidson Choppers though

 

[ElRaja]

@shaz619

 

[shaz619]

@shaz619

Man, what were they thinking with that C63 lol one way it’s a blessing in disguise because the V8 could make a comeback due to the poor reception critically and commercially. The G80 M3 surprised me a bit there, I was expecting the Tesla to be quicker. I saw an M3 Touring in the area and it looked so good compared to the Saloon. With all that bulk and assisted driving, am not sure if the G80 M3 is a proper ‘M3’, but need to appreciate it could be the last one with a complete IC engine and they finally made the touring variant as well.

 

[FearlessRoar]

BMW CE 02 Electric Scooter Makes India Debut, Price Announcement In October​

The highly anticipated BMW CE 02 electric scooter has officially arrived in India, with the price set to be revealed on October 1, 2024.

This stylish scooter is produced in collaboration with TVS at their Hosur plant in Tamil Nadu and is designed for the urban crowd, particularly millennials and young riders. BMW describes it as an ‘eParkourer’, perfect for navigating city chaos with a fun and quirky design. It is smaller version of CE O4, which has been launched recently.

The CE 02 is equipped with a 3.92 kWh battery, boasting a claimed range of 108 km. It features a single electric motor that delivers a total power of 15 bhp and a peak torque of 55 Nm. Weighing in at 142 kg, this scooter has a seat height of 745 mm. It can accelerate from 0 to 50 km/h in just three seconds and has a top speed of 95 km/h.

Riders can choose between two standard riding modes: ‘Flow’ for smooth city cruising and ‘Surf’ for a more dynamic experience. Additionally, there’s an optional ‘Flash’ mode for those seeking a sporty ride as part of the Highline package.

The CE 02’s front end is fitted with hydraulically damped telescopic forks, while the rear features a single-sided swingarm made of die-cast aluminum, along with an adjustable shock absorber. The scooter rides on lightweight cast alloy wheels, equipped with wide tires for better stability.

Safety features include disc brakes at the front and rear, with ABS on the front wheel, plus Automatic Stability Control (ASC) and Recuperative Stability Control (RSC). A handy reverse assistant feature is also included.

Other impressive features of the CE 02 are keyless ride, LED headlights with daytime running lights, a 3.5-inch TFT screen, and a USB-C socket. Charging is convenient with a 1.5 kW external charger, taking about 3.5 hours to fully charge and just over 1.5 hours from 10-80 percent.

When it launches, the BMW CE 02 is expected to be priced between ₹4 lakh to ₹6 lakh (ex-showroom).

BMW CE 02 Electric Scooter Makes India Debut, Price Announcement In October - News18

Manufactured by TVS in Hosur, Tamil Nadu, this scooter is dubbed an 'eParkourer,' designed to tackle the urban hustle and bustle.

www.news18.com

 

[FearlessRoar]

Pakistan strengthens automotive ties with China, eyes joint innovation in EV sector

Pakistan and China on Thursday agreed to enhance bilateral relations, with a particular focus on the rapidly growing automotive sector, Pakistan’s Consul General in Shanghai, Shehzad Ahmad Khan affirmed at the 2024 Taizhou International Automobile Industry Expo.

Speaking at the opening ceremony of the four-day event, Khan said Taizhou played a pivotal role as a trailblazer in China’s automobile industry, according to the Associated Press of Pakistan (APP).

He also praised the city’s innovative achievements and its substantial contributions to the global market.

Highlighting the importance of technological collaboration, Khan emphasised the potential for groundbreaking advancements in automotive technology through joint efforts between Pakistani and Chinese enterprises.

“Such collaboration can drive significant strides in knowledge sharing, capacity building, and sustainable practices within the industry,” he said, as reported by China Economic Net on Thursday.

He further stressed the need for a comprehensive framework of cooperation encompassing research and development, manufacturing, and market access.

“By working together, we can shape a future where clean, efficient, and sustainable mobility solutions are accessible to all,” he added.

Taizhou, renowned as the First City of Private Automobile Manufacturing in China, is home to five national automobile industry bases and over 6,000 automobile and parts enterprises, according to the APP.

The expo, which covers six exhibition halls across 50,000 square meters, features 2,500 booths showcasing the latest products and technologies in the sector.

On the sidelines of the expo, Shehzad organised an Electric Vehicle (EV) investment conference.

The event brought together key stakeholders from both countries, including industry leaders, officials, and potential investors, to explore opportunities in Pakistan’s EV sector.

Discussions focused on investment prospects in manufacturing, infrastructure development, and supply chain management.

The 2024 Taizhou International Automobile Industry Expo marks a significant step in further solidifying Pakistan-China relations, particularly in fostering innovation and growth in the automotive industry.

In August, Chinese electric vehicle giant BYD announced plans to open a car production plant in Pakistan, where it will also start selling three models through a partnership with Mega Motors.

Pakistan strengthens automotive ties with China, eyes joint innovation in EV sector

Consul general stresses the need for framework of cooperation encompassing research and development.

www.dawn.com

 

[BouncerGuy]

Toyota delays US electric car plans as sales slow

Toyota is pushing back the start date for electric vehicle (EV) manufacturing in the US, as global demand for battery-powered cars continues to soften.

The Japanese motor industry giant was aiming to start production in late 2025 or early 2026.

Toyota now expects to launch its US EV operation at an unspecified time in 2026, a company spokesperson told BBC News.

Several other major car makers, including Volvo and Ford, have recently scaled back their EV plans.

"We’re still focused on our global [battery electric vehicle] target of 1.5M vehicles by 2026," said Toyota spokesperson Scott Vazin, adding that in the next two years it plans to introduce "5 to 7 [battery electric vehicles] in the US market."

Earlier this year, the firm announced it was investing $1.3bn (£980m) in its Kentucky factory as part of plans to build a three-row, electric sport utility vehicle (SUV) there.

The company has also announced plans to build another electric model at a plant in Indiana.

To support these goals Toyota is ramping up its lithium-ion battery production with a factory in North Carolina, which it expects will come online next year.

Toyota's announcement came as the global car industry continues to struggle with weakening demand for electric vehicles in some major markets.

On Wednesday, Tesla's quarterly figures missed Wall Street expectations, putting leading EV maker at risk of its first-ever decline in annual deliveries.

Last month, Volvo abandoned its target to produce only fully electric cars by 2030, saying it now expected to be selling some hybrid vehicles by that date.

The company blamed changing market conditions for its decision to give up a target it had announced only three years ago.

In August, Ford announced that it is shaking up its strategy for electric vehicles, scrapping plans for a large, three-row, all-electric SUV and postponing the launch of its next electric pickup truck.

Chief financial officer John Lawler said the firm was adjusting its plans in response to "pricing and margin compression".

BBC

 

[BouncerGuy]

China's BYD overtakes Tesla revenue for first time

The Chinese electric vehicle giant BYD has seen its quarterly revenues soar, beating Tesla's for the first time.

It posted more than 200bn yuan ($28.2bn, £21.8bn) in revenues between July and September. This is a 24% jump from the same period last year, and more than Elon Musk's company whose quarterly revenue was $25.2bn.

However, Tesla still sold more electric vehicle (EVs) than BYD in the third quarter.

It comes as EV sales in China have been getting a boost from government subsidies to encourage consumers to trade their petrol-powered cars for EVs or hybrids.

BYD also notched a monthly sales record in the last month of the quarter, in a sign that momentum continues to build for China's bestselling car maker.

But there is a growing backlash abroad against the Chinese government's support for domestic car makers like BYD.

Earlier this week, European Union tariffs of up to 45.3% on imports of Chinese made EVs came into force across the bloc.

Chinese EV makers were already facing a 100% tax from the United States and Canada.

The tariffs are in response to alleged unfair state subsidisation of China's car industry.

As of last week, official data showed 1.57 million applications had been submitted for a national subsidy of $2,800 per each older vehicle traded in for a greener one.

That's on top of other government incentives already in place.

China has been counting on high-tech products to help revive its flagging economy, and the EU is the largest overseas market for the country's electric car industry.

Its domestic car industry has grown rapidly over the past two decades and its brands, such as BYD, have begun moving into international markets, prompting fears from the likes of the EU that its own companies will be unable to compete with the cheaper prices.

BBC

 

[BouncerGuy]

VW launches $5.8bn tie-up with Tesla rival Rivian

Volkswagen Group (VW) and Tesla rival Rivian have launched a joint venture, with the German car giant increasing its investment in the partnership.

The two companies say the deal is now worth $5.8bn (£4.55bn) - up from an initial pledge from VW of $5bn.

Shares in the US electric vehicle (EV) maker jumped more than 9% in after-hours trading following the announcement.

The tie-up will see the firms sharing critical technology at a time of slowing global demand for electric cars and increased competition from Chinese rivals.

The joint venture provides loss-making Rivian with a crucial source of funding as it prepares for the launch next year of its R2 model - a sports utility vehicle (SUV) that is smaller and more affordable than its current offerings.

It also means VW will be able to use Rivian's technology in its own range of vehicles.

The first VW models equipped with Rivian technology are expected to be available to customers as early as 2027.

"By combining their complementary expertise, the two companies plan to reduce development costs and scale new technologies more quickly," the two companies said in a statement.

Under the plan, developers and software engineers from both firms will initially work side by side in California, while three other facilities in North America and Europe will be set up.

It comes as expectations have grown that VW, Europe's biggest car maker, is planning to announce major cost-cutting measures.

The group, which also includes brands such as Audi, Lamborghini and Porsche, has been struggling with higher costs, weakening sales, competition from Chinese EV makers and a slower-than-expected move away from petrol and diesel vehicles.

Separately, Rivian has taken steps to cut costs amid softening demand for EVs.

The startup, which has yet to turn a profit, has been renegotiating contracts with suppliers and making its manufacturing processes more efficient.

As well as SUVs, Rivian also makes electric delivery vans, which it supplies mainly to online retail giant Amazon - its largest shareholder.

Amazon has ordered 100,000 of the vehicles, which are all due to be delivered by the end of the decade.

BBC

 

[JaDed]

Took about 10 years @Varun but they made it.

 

[JaDed]

I think its the looks and safety concerns. Although Tesla is very 'hip' and safe... it is way outside common man's budget. Model 3 promises a lot but it will be interesting to see what it delivers.

Another drawback is the charging time. When I test drove a tesla the guy told me it takes an hour to fully charge the s model and 30mins with supercharge..

And now in States it’s easily the most affordable cars thanks to rebate!
They even have new 0% auto loan.

How times change!

 

[JaDed]

VW launches $5.8bn tie-up with Tesla rival Rivian

Volkswagen Group (VW) and Tesla rival Rivian have launched a joint venture, with the German car giant increasing its investment in the partnership.

The two companies say the deal is now worth $5.8bn (£4.55bn) - up from an initial pledge from VW of $5bn.

Shares in the US electric vehicle (EV) maker jumped more than 9% in after-hours trading following the announcement.

The tie-up will see the firms sharing critical technology at a time of slowing global demand for electric cars and increased competition from Chinese rivals.

The joint venture provides loss-making Rivian with a crucial source of funding as it prepares for the launch next year of its R2 model - a sports utility vehicle (SUV) that is smaller and more affordable than its current offerings.

It also means VW will be able to use Rivian's technology in its own range of vehicles.

The first VW models equipped with Rivian technology are expected to be available to customers as early as 2027.

"By combining their complementary expertise, the two companies plan to reduce development costs and scale new technologies more quickly," the two companies said in a statement.

Under the plan, developers and software engineers from both firms will initially work side by side in California, while three other facilities in North America and Europe will be set up.

It comes as expectations have grown that VW, Europe's biggest car maker, is planning to announce major cost-cutting measures.

The group, which also includes brands such as Audi, Lamborghini and Porsche, has been struggling with higher costs, weakening sales, competition from Chinese EV makers and a slower-than-expected move away from petrol and diesel vehicles.

Separately, Rivian has taken steps to cut costs amid softening demand for EVs.

The startup, which has yet to turn a profit, has been renegotiating contracts with suppliers and making its manufacturing processes more efficient.

As well as SUVs, Rivian also makes electric delivery vans, which it supplies mainly to online retail giant Amazon - its largest shareholder.

Amazon has ordered 100,000 of the vehicles, which are all due to be delivered by the end of the decade.

BBC

Volkswagen is in such a downward spiral it had to do something, insane how arrogant and stubborn they were thinking they can’t be matched.

 

[JaDed]

Things will change forever when good electric cars are available from mass consumer companies like Honda and Toyota that the average joe can buy. The Porsche car will target the upper 10% of the society.

You were close instead Tesla itself became super affordable but toyota and Honda couldn’t get decent electric cars out.

 

[JaDed]

I love such threads where we can see how fast the change comes. Humbling

 

[BouncerGuy]

Jaguar's new electric concept car divides opinion

Luxury car maker Jaguar has unveiled its new electric concept car, less than a fortnight after the release of a teaser video that stirred online controversy.

The unveiling of the Type 00 car triggered mixed responses from social media users, with some cheering its design, while others mocked the launch.

Last month, many critics pointed out that the promotional video teasing the new model did not feature an actual car - but the firm was also praised by some for its bold new approach.

The car maker, which is embarking on the biggest change in its history, announced a new logo and released a so-called "social media tease", ahead of its relaunch as an electric-only brand.

During the Type 00 event in Miami on Monday, the UK-based company's chief creative officer, Gerry McGovern, said he welcomed the attention Jaguar's new direction had been getting.

"It has already stirred emotions and it will continue to," he said.

"Jaguar has no desire to be loved by everybody."

Replies on Jaguar's social media posts about the car ranged from "Go back to the drawing board" and "hopefully this doesn't actually come out" to "Exciting" and "Absolutely stunning".

Car industry analyst Karl Brauer was sceptical about the rebranding.

The company seems to be "sacrificing Jaguar's past to the hopes of a better future," he told the BBC. "I don’t think it’s going to work".

Last month, the company urged people to "trust and reserve judgement" over the rebrand of the business, which has a history dating back more than a century.

Earlier in November, Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) stopped selling new Jaguar cars in the UK ahead of a relaunch as an electric-only brand in 2026.

The firm said it was a deliberate move to "create some breathing space" before launching the new brand this month.

The firm announced the transition to electric vehicles in 2021, keeping all three of its three British plants open as part of the strategy.

Jaguar has been the weakest link within the JLR group, which has been owned by Tata Motors for almost a decade.

The Range Rover and Defender were behind the company's highest profits since 2015, which were announced earlier this year.

BBC

 

[FearlessRoar]

Honda and Nissan announce plans to merge after the Japanese car giants struggle to match rivals in electric vehicles​

Japanese car giants, Honda and Nissan, have announced plans to merge.

That would make them the third largest car maker by sales, behind Toyota Motor Corp and Volkswagen AG.

The two companies said they had signed a memorandum of understanding, which would also include the smaller Nissan Alliance member, Mitsubishi Motors, in the talks on integration.

Japan's car makers have struggled to match their big rivals in electric vehicles (EVs) and are trying to cut costs.

If the merger is finalised it could result in a company worth more than 50 billion dollars (£39.77bn) based on the market capitalisation of all three car makers.

Honda would initially lead the new management, which would retain the principles and brands of each company, Honda's president, Toshihiro Mibe, said.

The aim is for the deal to be completed by August 2026, he added, but said there was a chance it would not go forward.

Mr Mibe said there are "points that need to be studied and discussed" about the merger. "Frankly speaking, the possibility of this not being implemented is not zero."

Despite the prospective deal making the new company a giant in the industry, it would still lag behind Toyota as the leading Japanese automaker.

Toyota rolled out 11.5 million vehicles in 2023, with Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi Motors combining for around eight million.

It comes after the three companies announced in August that they would share components for EVs like batteries and jointly research software for autonomous driving.

Nissan has struggled under the weight of a scandal that began with the arrest of its former chairman Carlos Ghosn in late 2018 on charges of fraud and misuse of company assets - allegations that he denies. He eventually was released on bail and fled to Lebanon.

He said the planned merger was a "desperate move".

Meanwhile, in Europe, car companies have been cutting jobs and shutting factories as they face pressure from growing exports from China, Sky News' economics and data editor Ed Conway reported this month.

Honda and Nissan announce plans to merge after the Japanese car giants struggle to match rivals in electric vehicles

The merged company would be the third biggest car marker in the world, behind Toyota and Volkswagen.

news.sky.com

 

[Bhaijaan]

Haryanvi Aaagye Oye

https://twitter.com/x/status/1873211308105187377

@Varun

 

[shaz619]

The next M3 is going to be electric, but some good news to because BMW have said they will still develop an ICE M3 alongside it @ElRaja

Right now I think the M340i is the bargain to be had for the future if you look for a one & only car for the long term, diesels wont be as well received as petrols, & the M340i with its B58 engine has all the performance, reliability & economy you will need, there’s some mild hybrid tech as well. The most impressive thing with the B58 is that its response is similar to a straight 6 naturally aspirated engine, with the twin scroll turbo there is next to none turbo lag. Toyota also used the motor in their Supras and it would have passed their rigorous reliability testing.

 

[ElRaja]

The next M3 is going to be electric, but some good news to because BMW have said they will still develop an ICE M3 alongside it @ElRaja

Right now I think the M340i is the bargain to be had for the future if you look for a one & only car for the long term, diesels wont be as well received as petrols, & the M340i with its B58 engine has all the performance, reliability & economy you will need, there’s some mild hybrid tech as well. The most impressive thing with the B58 is that its response is similar to a straight 6 naturally aspirated engine, with the twin scroll turbo there is next to none turbo lag. Toyota also used the motor in their Supras and it would have passed their rigorous reliability testing.

i saw a bmw driving back from a friends today, and the halo lights and lit up grill just made me think of badly modded out "ricer" hondas, and mitsubishis from the early 2000s. there just doing everything wrong aesthetically IMO. as nice as the 3 series is, ive always been a 5 lover myself, i think the overall size made the aesthetic for that car, and the new ones look horrid and obese from the front. i dont even follow what BMW does anymore cos im so disappointed.

i think the news that honda and Nissan will merge is the canary in the coal mine, legacy car makers are gonna be in big trouble if they cant figure out the right electric products. as soul less as they are, electric cars are so easy to live with. salary sacrafice makes electric cars just too attractive, i have a year and a bit left, and the draw of getting nearly 50% off a lease with an electric car that could do 400 miles would just be to good to resist.

the polestar 5 looks so good to me, although my aging parents will kill me if i get another low slung car, lol.

 

[shaz619]

i saw a bmw driving back from a friends today, and the halo lights and lit up grill just made me think of badly modded out "ricer" hondas, and mitsubishis from the early 2000s. there just doing everything wrong aesthetically IMO. as nice as the 3 series is, ive always been a 5 lover myself, i think the overall size made the aesthetic for that car, and the new ones look horrid and obese from the front. i dont even follow what BMW does anymore cos im so disappointed.

i think the news that honda and Nissan will merge is the canary in the coal mine, legacy car makers are gonna be in big trouble if they cant figure out the right electric products. as soul less as they are, electric cars are so easy to live with. salary sacrafice makes electric cars just too attractive, i have a year and a bit left, and the draw of getting nearly 50% off a lease with an electric car that could do 400 miles would just be to good to resist.

the polestar 5 looks so good to me, although my aging parents will kill me if i get another low slung car, lol.

BMW’s main design lead apparently has been let go as part of their restructuring and moved somewhere else in their division, have you seen the new 1 series ? writing was on the wall after that, it looks like a Ford Kia lol There’s a lot to be desired on the design front, although the M cars have grown on me, the 3 series is good looking especially the touring, but the 5 series I agree is just so big, it’s not suited for our roads especially, peak 5 series for me was the E39! a real beauty.

Salary sacrifice is the main allure otherwise there is no real incentive, I’ve not looked at them in great detail but through my work the Chinese EV’s and lesser known brands have some good deals, it’s worth it especially if you have space for another sporty / weekend car ! Will you ever return to the ICE for one last hurrah ?!

 

[JaDed]

Volvo’s EV has one of the worst inscreens I have ever seen, what the hell is that.

European Car market will suffer immensely if it cannot figure this out and it will also cause issues in autoplmobile part companies across the world.

BYD is doing really well, but Rivian and Tesla do have superior engineers.
Only hope for American auto is Waymo, Zoox, Rivian and Tesla, hopefully Detroit doesn’t cause issues.

 

[90MPH]

I’ve had a Porsche Taycan for 2 years.

Drives amazing and very quick/smooth.

Downsides because the technology is new there has been lot of niggles like the heater breaking down, the boot not opening, 12v battery just dying for no reason.

But the biggest one is range anxiety- constantly looking at my app how many miles I can drive.

So I would say probably a few years away yet until the technology gets to a good standard and there is more infrastructure for charging quickly.

Or maybe a plug in hybrid is a good compromise for the time being - though the vehicle will be more heavy.

 

[JaDed]

I’ve had a Porsche Taycan for 2 years.

Drives amazing and very quick/smooth.

Downsides because the technology is new there has been lot of niggles like the heater breaking down, the boot not opening, 12v battery just dying for no reason.

But the biggest one is range anxiety- constantly looking at my app how many miles I can drive.

So I would say probably a few years away yet until the technology gets to a good standard and there is more infrastructure for charging quickly.

Or maybe a plug in hybrid is a good compromise for the time being - though the vehicle will be more heavy.

What’s the range on road for your car?

 

[JaDed]

BMW’s main design lead apparently has been let go as part of their restructuring and moved somewhere else in their division, have you seen the new 1 series ? writing was on the wall after that, it looks like a Ford Kia lol There’s a lot to be desired on the design front, although the M cars have grown on me, the 3 series is good looking especially the touring, but the 5 series I agree is just so big, it’s not suited for our roads especially, peak 5 series for me was the E39! a real beauty.

Salary sacrifice is the main allure otherwise there is no real incentive, I’ve not looked at them in great detail but through my work the Chinese EV’s and lesser known brands have some good deals, it’s worth it especially if you have space for another sporty / weekend car ! Will you ever return to the ICE for one last hurrah ?!

Kia designs have been really ahead of the curve, even their Indian ones are awesome.

Kia is now what Nissan used to be 6-8 years ago atleast in States, they are feature rich for the price.

 

[shaz619]

Kia designs have been really ahead of the curve, even their Indian ones are awesome.

Kia is now what Nissan used to be 6-8 years ago atleast in States, they are feature rich for the price.

For Kia yes, but BMW replicating them for their new 1 series though Have you seen it ? It’s horrible, the F70. It’s interesting because when the E87 came out all those years ago people didn’t like how it looked, and since then the public reception has been poor, though I didn’t mind the F20 or F40 too much. The F70 is blasphemy.

I drove a new Nissan Micra recently as a courtesy, it was weird the keyless start, anyway I took it around the block and my word, the thing was underpowered but when you put your foot down, it felt like an eternity for the power to arrive; the turbo lag was horrible. BMW still make the best driving cars, and while they’ve lost some of the ‘feeling’ of old, the cars are a lot more reliable and the manufacturer appears to be rated highly in that regard, top 3 generally.

I didn’t know India was into performance oriented cars but perhaps it’s a very small minority, but saw this review from an Indian bloke who seems like an enthusiast, not many such reviewers from that part of the world and the review is a bit cringe but was great to see nevertheless aha:

But I don’t think the M340i touring is available in your part of the world am not sure, if it is, must cost an arm and leg. This is the car though imo, it has it all and is future proof because I believe in synthetic fuels.

 

[shaz619]

I’ve had a Porsche Taycan for 2 years.

Drives amazing and very quick/smooth.

Downsides because the technology is new there has been lot of niggles like the heater breaking down, the boot not opening, 12v battery just dying for no reason.

But the biggest one is range anxiety- constantly looking at my app how many miles I can drive.

So I would say probably a few years away yet until the technology gets to a good standard and there is more infrastructure for charging quickly.

Or maybe a plug in hybrid is a good compromise for the time being - though the vehicle will be more heavy.

If you’ve driven other ICE Porsche cars, what does the Taycan feel like to drive in comparison ? Interesting to know as Porsche still prioritise the driving experience as well or is it just another soulless motor with the premium badge

 

[JaDed]

For Kia yes, but BMW replicating them for their new 1 series though Have you seen it ? It’s horrible, the F70. It’s interesting because when the E87 came out all those years ago people didn’t like how it looked, and since then the public reception has been poor, though I didn’t mind the F20 or F40 too much. The F70 is blasphemy.

I drove a new Nissan Micra recently as a courtesy, it was weird the keyless start, anyway I took it around the block and my word, the thing was underpowered but when you put your foot down, it felt like an eternity for the power to arrive; the turbo lag was horrible. BMW still make the best driving cars, and while they’ve lost some of the ‘feeling’ of old, the cars are a lot more reliable and the manufacturer appears to be rated highly in that regard, top 3 generally.

I didn’t know India was into performance oriented cars but perhaps it’s a very small minority, but saw this review from an Indian bloke who seems like an enthusiast, not many such reviewers from that part of the world and the review is a bit cringe but was great to see nevertheless aha:

But I don’t think the M340i touring is available in your part of the world am not sure, if it is, must cost an arm and leg. This is the car though imo, it has it all and is future proof because I believe in synthetic fuels.

BMW is really good, it’s my partners favourite car ,she didn’t get the electric one though but definitely the drive is terrific.

One issue I noticed though is cruise control isn’t adaptive though, I drive a basic Camry SE and even 5 years ago it had cruise control that would automatically adjust speed based on thr vehicle ahead

 

[shaz619]

BMW is really good, it’s my partners favourite car ,she didn’t get the electric one though but definitely the drive is terrific.

One issue I noticed though is cruise control isn’t adaptive though, I drive a basic Camry SE and even 5 years ago it had cruise control that would automatically adjust speed based on thr vehicle ahead

Yes, I’ve heard about that, adaptive cruise should never be an ‘option’ for these newish cars especially. This is where the customers are extorted due to brand loyalty, apparently customers can ‘subscribe’ monthly to get specific features like adaptive suspension which is already baked into the car & is unlocked via software. I don’t know how the giant tablets in their cars passed safety testing, especially incorporating climate control, but that huge tablet the beamers have now, not only save the brand money from having physical buttons but also using it as a device to sell additional features. From new, such cars are not worth it until the initial depreciation hit and then you look for the right spec yourself. I can’t imagine not having buttons to control the air-con, imagine having to fiddle with that while driving & family or kids in the back, it’s just not safe.

 

[ElRaja]

BMW’s main design lead apparently has been let go as part of their restructuring and moved somewhere else in their division, have you seen the new 1 series ? writing was on the wall after that, it looks like a Ford Kia lol There’s a lot to be desired on the design front, although the M cars have grown on me, the 3 series is good looking especially the touring, but the 5 series I agree is just so big, it’s not suited for our roads especially, peak 5 series for me was the E39! a real beauty.

Salary sacrifice is the main allure otherwise there is no real incentive, I’ve not looked at them in great detail but through my work the Chinese EV’s and lesser known brands have some good deals, it’s worth it especially if you have space for another sporty / weekend car ! Will you ever return to the ICE for one last hurrah ?!

ive seen it, its horrific, worse part is how ugly and nondescript most BMW back ends are now, the x5 might as well be a chunkier ford galaxy. e39 deffo, and e60 since that's the five i had, lol. the e60, mint with a good body kit still would draw more looks than the new 5.

yes, when i have enough money to buy my 911 gt3 rs, lol. i love ice cars, but for practical daily run around they dont make sense to me. im happy knowing there aint no gasket that could leak, or spark plugs that could fail, or oil that needs changing. the real USP for ICE is driving dynamics, weight balance, feel, sound, emotion, which is more suited to a point and shoot super / hyper car.

maybe its the limits of my own technical knowledge, but i dont see how a electric car lugging around a tonne of batteries can ever handle like a caterham or an ariel atom. there will be a day when the battery package will be light enough as to not make a difference, but i i think that's minimum a decade off.

 

[90MPH]

What’s the range on road for your car?

It’s supposed to be 230 officially but I get around 200 in the summer and about 170 in the winter.
I do have a charger installed at home but obviously for long journeys you have to plan out.

 

[90MPH]

If you’ve driven other ICE Porsche cars, what does the Taycan feel like to drive in comparison ? Interesting to know as Porsche still prioritise the driving experience as well or is it just another soulless motor with the premium badge

The Taycan was built to be made on the same handling as a 9/11.
Difference is obviously it’s electric so lacks sound but you get used to it (also has artificial electric sound option that I use occasionally).
The only other aspect you may feel is the steering can feel slightly heavy when turning into junctions or roads at lower speeds but you will only notice this subconsciously - you will get used to it.

So the car itself is overall superb but one that has some teething problems with the new technology as already stated. Porsche has excellent customer service though and they look after you on that regard with no hassle until the issue is resolved.

But yeah if you are a petrolhead then electric will not be for you because it does lack a soul if I’m brutally honest so get a 9/11 instead or a hybrid as a compromise.

 

[shaz619]

ive seen it, its horrific, worse part is how ugly and nondescript most BMW back ends are now, the x5 might as well be a chunkier ford galaxy. e39 deffo, and e60 since that's the five i had, lol. the e60, mint with a good body kit still would draw more looks than the new 5.

yes, when i have enough money to buy my 911 gt3 rs, lol. i love ice cars, but for practical daily run around they dont make sense to me. im happy knowing there aint no gasket that could leak, or spark plugs that could fail, or oil that needs changing. the real USP for ICE is driving dynamics, weight balance, feel, sound, emotion, which is more suited to a point and shoot super / hyper car.

maybe its the limits of my own technical knowledge, but i dont see how a electric car lugging around a tonne of batteries can ever handle like a caterham or an ariel atom. there will be a day when the battery package will be light enough as to not make a difference, but i i think that's minimum a decade off.

They are nauseating for the most part, the 3 series touring is decent looking though however and a million times better then their SUV's. E60 is an iconic car, I saw a touring in my local area and couldn't stop looking, it amazes me the reception we have at the time of release and how you look back and realise you didn't appreciate it enough, this is one of my all time favourite Clarkson reviews of the E60 & gives me goosebumps:

Haha iA am sure you will get that GT3 soon. I understand, with very high mileage it can be difficult to justify and it's better to get something more sensible & have a fun weekend car on the side, or having a sensible all rounder like the M340i touring as a one car garage. Man tell me about it, I don't do many miles so can justify it for now, but the garage has been my second home towards the second half of the year, the straight 6 is thrilling, though reliability beyond 100k miles is not great and that comes with the territory like you say.

I think they will never quiet have the same emotional attachment you have with ICE cars. Perhaps BMW will figure it out to some extent and maybe some of the driving dynamics will not be all gone (I hope).

 

[BouncerGuy]

China's BYD closes in on Tesla as sales jump

Chinese car maker BYD saw its sales jump at the end of last year, as it competes with Tesla to be the world's best-selling electric vehicle (EV) maker of 2024.

The company says it sold 207,734 EVs in December, taking its annual total to 1.76 million, as subsidies and discounts helped attract customers.

It comes as Tesla is due to announce its own quarterly sales figures later on Thursday.

The US electric car maker maintained a slim lead in EV sales over BYD in the previous quarter but the Shenzhen-based firm has been narrowing the gap.

BYD's total vehicle sales jumped more than 41% in 2024, year-on-year. The surge was powered mainly by sales of its hybrid cars.

The company has benefited from a rise in car sales in its home market, as intense competition drove down prices and government subsidies encouraged consumers to replace their old cars with EVs or other more fuel efficient options.

BYD sells 90% of its cars in China, where its been extending its lead over foreign brands like Volkswagen and Toyota.

The rise of BYD and other Chinese EV makers contrasts with the challenges faced by some legacy car makers, which have been struggling in major Western markets.

Last month, Honda and Nissan confirmed that they were holding merger talks, as the two Japanese firms seek to fight back against competition from the Chinese car industry.

Also in December, Volkswagen announced it had reached a deal with the IG Metall trade union which will avert plant closures in Germany and avoid immediate compulsory redundancies.

The German motor industry giant had previously warned it might have to shutter plants in the country for the first time in a bid to cut costs.

Earlier in the month, the boss of car making giant Stellantis, Carlos Tavares, quit with immediate effect following a boardroom clash.

His abrupt exit from the company - which owns brands including Vauxhall, Jeep, Fiat, Peugeot and Chrysler - came two months after Stellantis issued a profit warning.

In the third quarter of 2024, BYD saw its revenues soar, beating Tesla's for the first time.

It posted more than 200bn yuan ($28.2bn, £21.8bn) in revenues between July and September - a 24% jump from the same period last year, and more than Elon Musk's company whose quarterly revenue was $25.2bn.

However, Tesla still sold more electric vehicle (EVs) than BYD.

Chinese car makers have been trying to boost sales of their EVs outside the country but have faced pushback in some major markets.

In October, European Union tariffs of up to 45.3% on imports of Chinese-made EVs came into force across the bloc.

The US has also imposed a 100% duty on EVs from China and President-elect Donald Trump is expected to impose further tariffs on imports.

Meanwhile, BYD has been expanding its foothold in emerging economies.

Last month, it faced a setback in Brazil - its largest overseas market - with authorities halting the construction of a BYD factory, saying workers lived in conditions comparable to "slavery".

BYD said it had cut ties with the construction firm involved and remained committed to a "full compliance with Brazilian legislation".

BBC

 

[hassan918]

China to set up $250m EV manufacturing plant in Pakistan​

ISLAMABAD (Web Desk) - China’s ADM Group will invest $250 million to set up an electric vehicle manufacturing plant in Pakistan, media reported on Wednesday, as Islamabad seeks for Beijing to collaborate in setting up industrial zones to manufacture electronic cars.

The government of Pakistan approved an ambitious National Electric Vehicles Policy (NEVP) in 2019 with the goal of electric vehicles comprising 30 percent of all passenger vehicle and heavy-duty truck sales by 2030, and an even more ambitious target of 90 percent by 2040.

For two- and three-wheelers, as well as buses, the policy set a goal of achieving 50 percent of new sales by 2030 and 90 percent by 2040.

“Chinese Company ADM Group has announced an investment of two hundred and fifty million dollars to set up an EV manufacturing plant in Pakistan,” Radio Pakistan reported, saying the initiative was part of efforts by the Special Investment Facilitation Council set up last year to attract foreign investment.

“Transition to EVs is expected to cut fuel import costs, saving billions of dollars.”

Last year, ADM Group announced an investment of $350 million in Pakistan’s EV sector, saying it would establish more than 3,000 electric vehicle charging stations across the South Asian country.

Earlier this month, Pakistan said it would cut the power tariff for operators of electric vehicle charging stations by 45 percent as part of the ongoing reform of the energy sector designed to boost demand.

The government is also planning to introduce financing schemes for e-bikes and the conversion of two- and three-wheeled petrol vehicles.

The cabinet on Jan. 15 approved a reduced tariff of 39.70 rupees ($0.14) per unit, down from 71.10 rupees previously, which will be in place within a month.

The government expects an internal rate of return of more than 20 percent for investors in the sector.

According to a report submitted to the government by power ministry adviser Ammar Habib Khan and reported by Reuters, there are currently more than 30 million two- and three-wheeled vehicles in Pakistan, which consume more than $5 billion worth of petroleum annually.

The ministry plans to convert 1 million two-wheelers to electric bikes in a first phase, at an estimated net cost of 40,000 rupees per bike, according to the report, saving around $165 million in fuel import costs annually.

BYD Pakistan, a partnership between China’s BYD and Pakistani car group Mega Motors, told Reuters in September that up to 50 percent of all vehicles bought in Pakistan by 2030 will be electrified in some form in line with global targets.

Source: Dunya News

 

[BouncerGuy]

DeepSeek to feature in automotive giant BYD's self-driving cars

Chinese automotive giant BYD has said that plans to unroll advanced self-driving technology on nearly all its cars, including budget models priced below $10,000.

The company also said it would integrate AI startup Deepseek's software into its cars, following domestic peers such as Geely, Great Wall Motors, and Leapmotor.

BYD is Tesla's biggest rival in China and increasingly abroad, and Monday evening's announcement led analysts to suggest a new price war might be on the horizon.

BYD will install its "God's Eye" autonomous driving system in at least 21 models, including the Seagull budget hatchback priced at ¥69,800 ($9,550).

The system includes features such as remote parking and autonomous highway navigation previously found on more expensive vehicles. Tesla has similar features available in its EVs priced from $32,000.

"Autonomous driving is no longer a remote rarity, it's a [...] necessary tool," BYD founder Wang Chuanfu said at a live-streamed event on Monday.

Self-driving technology would become an "indispensable tool like safety belts or airbags" within a few years, he predicted.

The integration of DeepSeek, the company said, would help improve self-driving technology and provide a more personalised experience for consumers.

The AI firm made headlines last month when it unveiled a chatbot that can match its American competitors apparently at a fraction of the cost.

Shares in BYD jumped 4.5% to a record high in Hong Kong on Tuesday — having already risen almost 20% in the days leading up to Monday's event.

China's auto market, the world's largest, has seen a prolonged price war among dozens of EV producers desperate to grab market share.

Almost 11 million electric and hybrid vehicles were sold in the country last year, up more than 40% from 2023.

BYD accounted for around 4.2 million of those sales, with its quarterly revenue overtaking Tesla's for the first time in the third quarter.

AFP

 

[BouncerGuy]

Multi-billion dollar Honda-Nissan merger talks collapse

Honda and Nissan have announced that they are ending talks of a merger, adding that they will continue their partnership on electric vehicles.

The Japanese car makers, along with junior partner Mitsubishi, aimed to combine their businesses to fight back against competition from rival firms, especially in China.

"Going forward, the three companies will collaborate within the framework of a strategic partnership aimed at the era of intelligence and electrified vehicles," the companies said in a statement on Thursday.

Joining forces would have created a new motor industry giant alongside Toyota, Volkswagen, General Motors and Ford.

It would also have provided Nissan, which for a while was Japan's second largest car company, with crucial relief following years of slowing sales and turmoil involving its top executives.

In November, Nissan suprised shareholders with plans to lay off thousands of workers to tackle a drop in sales in China and the US.

The growing electric car market has been increasingly dominated by Chinese manufacturers, such as BYD.

This increased competition has left many of the world's leading car makers struggling to compete.

In March last year, months before they announced the merger plans, Nissan and Honda had agreed to explore a strategic partnership for electric vehicles.

"The talks started because we believe that we must build up capabilities to fight them, including the current emerging forces, by 2030," Honda's chief executive Toshihiro Mibe said, in reference to the Chinese competition. "Otherwise we will be beaten."

Meanwhile, the Taiwanese technology giant Foxconn has emerged as a possible investor in Nissan.

"If cooperation requires it (purchasing Nissan shares), we will consider it," Foxconn chairman Young Liu told reporters on Wednesday.

BBC

 

[BouncerGuy]

Tesla shares slump after European sales fall

Shares in electric car maker Tesla have slumped more than 9% after EU and UK sales fell by almost half in January.

The drop in Tesla shares took the company's valuation back below $1trn for the first time since November 2024.

Tesla has been facing stiff competition in the European market from Chinese and other manufacturers.

In addition, Tesla owner Elon Musk has been making controversial political waves on both sides of the Atlantic, an analyst said.

Tesla sales in January bucked European electric car sale trends, which grew by more than a third in the month, according to trade body Acea.

Instead, Tesla sales across the EU, EFTA and the UK fell more that 45%, and more than 50% in the EU alone.

It comes after Tesla sales fell last year for the first time in more than a decade as demand faltered and rivals gained pace.

The main factor in the January sales slump was likely to be increasing competition, AJ Bell investment director Russ Mould said.

Chinese manufacturer BYD has been making big strides, in part because it includes as standard some features which cost extra from other makers, Mould said.

However, some car buyers may also be taking a "principled stand" on Musk's political interventions, he said.

Musk has made waves in the US with his involvement in slashing US development funds and efforts to drastically reduce US federal funding.

In the UK he supports jailed far-right activist Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, also known as Tommy Robinson, and repeatedly criticised prime minister Sir Keir Starmer.

Musk also supports the far-right AfD party in Germany, and congratulated its leader after the party's record second-place result in elections.

There are other political factors which may be dampening Tesla's prospects, Mould said.

Tesla shares got a big boost after the US election due to Musk's closeness to Donald Trump - Musk has described himself as "first buddy" to the US president.

Investors thought this would stand his businesses in good stead.

However, Trump is not a supporter of electric vehicles, and has said he will cancel efforts to boost their ownership.

"How anybody thought this was going to be good for Tesla, I don't know," Mould said.

There is also general market skittishness about the path of interest rate cuts and concerns about Trump tariff plans that could be contributing to the fall, Mould added.

BBC

 

[Bhaijaan]

BYD is taking over the world

https://twitter.com/x/status/1902226194483048886

https://twitter.com/x/status/1902117812275163182