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England have failed to repay debt they owe to Pakistan: Michael Atherton

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England have failed to repay debt they owe to Pakistan

Michael Atherton

Chief Cricket Correspondent

Tuesday September 21 2021, 12.00pm BST, The Times

English cricket, the governing body and players, had a chance to do the right thing this week. They had a chance to repay a debt, uphold their honour and side with a cricketing nation that has undergone the kind of challenges others cannot even begin to contemplate. Instead, citing a mealy-mouthed statement, they did the wrong thing.

What England did was pull out of a commitment to fulfil a mini-tour to Pakistan — two T20s as far as the men are concerned, a four-day trip in all — before a full tour next year. New Zealand had pulled out of their tour a few days earlier, citing a specific security threat, and Pakistan had feared the domino effect that was likely to result. Their fears were well grounded; our low expectations of England’s response were duly met.

What they were calling the big season in Pakistan — with visits from New Zealand, England, West Indies and Australia, the most high-profile season since international cricket returned there three years ago — is in tatters. Australia’s reputation for doing the right thing is as low as England’s, so it would be a surprise if they front up eventually as well. Pakistan will be facing a financial hammer blow.

It was clear from the ECB’s statement that security concerns were not the principal reason for the cancellation of the tour. The Times understands there has been no change to the general advice given, at government level or by the ECB’s security consultants, in the wake of the specific threat that caused New Zealand to cancel their tour. It would surely have been front and centre of any press release had there been so. Should the security advice have changed the ECB should have stated so, without going into detail, unequivocally.

Instead, player welfare was cited as the main reason. Player welfare is an important issue, especially so with Covid, and the implication is that the wariness of travelling to Pakistan after New Zealand’s withdrawal would exacerbate those concerns. The players were spooked. Player welfare in this regard does not wash: while many players have spent long periods in Covid-restricted environments, there are many within the English game who have not, and who could have been asked to tour if others were unavailable.

It was incumbent upon the ECB to try to put out a team, any team, once the security arrangements were deemed satisfactory. When Covid struck in the summer, the ECB were happy to play Pakistan with a second/third team. Why not now? If then, having committed to tour, it was apparent that the selectors (by the way, where are they when you need them?) could not find 14 players willing to travel, then that, too, should have been stated clearly. If there was a block refusal based on advice from the Professional Cricketers’ Association, this should be stated unequivocally.

If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable, but to cite Covid fatigue, effectively, is to have a short memory of what touring teams, not least Pakistan, went through in England last summer at the height of the pandemic, so helping to save the professional game from financial catastrophe. At the time of Pakistan’s arrival last year, Covid death rates in this country were the third highest in the world, more than 150 times the rate in Pakistan. Still Pakistan came, keeping who knows how many professional cricketers and support staff in their jobs.

The sense of anger and betrayal in Pakistan is real and understandable. Ramiz Raja, the new chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board, is a former cricketer rather than an administrator and therefore talks a player’s language. He has been refreshingly blunt and has talked of learning a harsh lesson where England are concerned. Already the board there is making contingency plans around England’s planned tour next year. They do not expect England to travel, despite the commitment, and have lost any trust and faith in them. It is hard to blame them.

Citing player welfare is strange when the ECB have essentially washed their hands of their players’ travel and cricketing commitments for three months of the year. If, as an employer, they are so wary of bubble and cricket fatigue, surely they should take more interest in the players’ availability for the Indian Premier League? Now, of course, those who are playing in the tournament will be available for the knockout stages. It suits India and England, but not Pakistan, who have no direct stake, their players being still barred from the competition.

This decision is worse than England’s withdrawal from South Africa last winter and India’s cancellation of the Manchester Test this month. While both those actions were hard to justify, they were at least understandable given Covid had come into close proximity to both teams.

Last year, writing a column about the remarkable act of generosity shown by West Indies and Pakistan in coming to England at the height of the pandemic, I asked: “It is a hypothetical question, and impossible to know the answer, but would England be so swift to help if the situation were reversed?” I went on: “If West Indies and Pakistan do travel this summer, their generosity should not be forgotten.”

The game’s governing body in this country has short memories, although it is likely that others will not forget this moment so easily. And, of course, we know the answer to the hypothetical question now. We probably knew it all along.

Link: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...a?shareToken=24319ff93c8ffa943014f6c7cf268528
 
Peter Obornes furious reaction to the ECB withdrawal from the Pakistani tour

Good to see fellow English Cricketers, Journalists calling out the ECB

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When you stand with truth and justice, others who you do not expect follow in support.
 
No rocket science here. Atherton is a great man and will always say what is right!!
 
It is all Mr. Rameez Raja and the approach he has taken to deal with this matter. Great stuff!
 
True gent who speaks his mind.

4 day trip cited for health reasons but green light given to play IPL for 2 weeks plus
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and co can now crawl back into there closets now.
 
Great to see Atherton, Peter Oborne and George Dobell call a spade a spade. They are people whose opinions on cricket I value deeply. And I'm glad to see them stand on the side of truth and justice on this issue.
 
People like Mamoon can keep on hating Pakistan. Atherton said what we have all been saying. England backstabbed Pakistan and didn’t repay the debt they own to Pakistan. Shame on them.
 
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Peter Oborne has always been one of the favorite cricket writers. His book on Pakistan cricket: Wounded Tiger is a must-read.

Interesting that he mentioned how much English cricket 'owe' Pakistan.

Posters like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] would have you thinking otherwise.

And if not that, I'm sure he will find a way try to to discredit Oborne.
 
Terrific from a non-pakistani saying this, at least he isnt letting his feelings get in the way, just logic.
 
"If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable"

All those praising the article read this part right?
 
Cancelling of the tour = cricket losing out

And the inevitable decline of international cricket .

Most sensible people like Atherton see the writing on the wall.
 
"If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable"

All those praising the article read this part right?

How can you pull out for security when the report hasn't even been shared?
 
How can you pull out for security when the report hasn't even been shared?

I dont ask England the intel came from their intelligence apparently.

Now they are putting a PR spin on pulling out by using player welfare as an excuse. Which is what Atherton is getting at.
 
Good to see fellow English Cricketers, Journalists calling out the ECB

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Never really liked Kay Burley and her reason for the Taliban moving in and out of Pakistan is frankly a poor one. You as a board come over review and run through the security measures and see if you are happy with that, Pakistan offered presidential security to protect SA, SL, Bang, WI and overseas players for the PSL5 and 6. You can't blame Pakistan when they have been utterly disrespected not only as a people but their intelligence.
 
He is saying its a flimsy reason and rightly so, ECB have taken safer road.
 
"If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable"

All those praising the article read this part right?

lol Good try. Please read the whole article again and if you still don't understand, then get help!
 
The PCB has some good grounds to sue and ask for compensation if what these reporters are saying is true. Atherton and Oborne can turn out to be star witnesses for the PCB
 
The PCB has some good grounds to sue and ask for compensation if what these reporters are saying is true. Atherton and Oborne can turn out to be star witnesses for the PCB

Not witnesses but moral supporters..
 
Thanks

But what difference is any of this going to make? All of these journalists (besides Pakistani) are just milking the situation for their own promotion. ECB are not listening. The ICC are not listening

Nothing will change
 
Good stuff from athers Always found him fair and even in his approach The truth is out there Deny it if you like you wont change it
 
It is good to see journalists taking ECB to task for the nonsense PR spin reasoning for cancelling the tour.

Only for you my friend. Not a single "if" in the paragraph below

"The sense of anger and betrayal in Pakistan is real and understandable. Ramiz Raja, the new chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board, is a former cricketer rather than an administrator and therefore talks a player’s language. He has been refreshingly blunt and has talked of learning a harsh lesson where England are concerned. Already the board there is making contingency plans around England’s planned tour next year. They do not expect England to travel, despite the commitment, and have lost any trust and faith in them. It is hard to blame them."
 
[MENTION=131138]Space Cat[/MENTION], I can give you so much more if you are interested from the same article. Just let me know
 
I dont ask England the intel came from their intelligence apparently.

Now they are putting a PR spin on pulling out by using player welfare as an excuse. Which is what Atherton is getting at.

England are a complete joke. They did nothing to improve security measures for the Jarvo incidents in which he charged the field on 4 separate occasions with the 4th test him charging into Bairstow. All these people need dealt with and PCB should be taking these fools to court.

The pull out was complete bull, i will be really mad if the England players then attend the IPL, so where is the fatigue there?
 
Thanks to the English journos and comms sticking their necks out with regards to this rubbish England pullout.

To the NZ fans despite what you may be seeing on twitter and forums, there are some people (atleast in my circle) that are directing their anger towards the political structures not the players or fans.

Please folks no need to call cricket players cowards etc. This is above their pay grade. To all the kiwi fans on here you got my love and respect you are exemplary fans and sportsmen. I'm sure some would have stayed on if they had a say.
 
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Thanks to the English journos and comms sticking their necks out with regards to this rubbish England pullout.

To the NZ fans despite what you may be seeing on twitter and forums, there are some people (atleast in my circle) that are directing their anger towards the political structures not the players or fans.

Please folks no need to call cricket players cowards etc. This is above their pay grade. To all the kiwi fans on here you got my love and respect you are exemplary fans and sportsmen.

When players like Kane Williamson, Jamieson and Santner are abandoning national duty for IPL, then the players deserve an equal amount of hate.

These players who trained in Rawalpindi Will not be there if they had IPL contracts
 
When players like Kane Williamson, Jamieson and Santner are abandoning national duty for IPL, then the players deserve an equal amount of hate.

These players who trained in Rawalpindi Will not be there if they had IPL contracts

Bhai I see your view, but in my opinion, player greed is a related but still separate topic to this whole political fiasco.

If the NZ stars would rather take the IPL $$ so be it, they made their intentions clear from outset and didn't come. Furthermore they are not unique in this, tensions are happening across cricket world with regards to foregoing duties for IPL.


The players that did show up to Pindi like Latham, they don't don't deserve hate and to be called cowards. They had no choice to leave and were probably not given much details when told to leave (given how shady and loose hanging this security threat is turning out to be).
 
England and ECB only care about themselves, the only board they will support is the BCCI purely on basis of the IPL and what money an indian series will bring in.

England expect there summer schedule to be filled.

They support the IPL as they know if they dont their own players might revolt.

So far england have cancelled SL, bangladesh, S.A and now pakistan tours.

yet their players are tired and burnt out. what a load of rubbish. i hope most of these boards that have been let down tell ECB to go.

England making excuses on the Ashes aswell.

if england had their way it would be full summer or cricket, 100, IPL, tour india, icc tournament.

thats all they seem interested in.
 
Thanks

But what difference is any of this going to make? All of these journalists (besides Pakistani) are just milking the situation for their own promotion. ECB are not listening. The ICC are not listening

Nothing will change

You sure the ICC, ECB are not listening. These journalists including Atherton are highly respected and a key part of the cricketing fraternity. Atherton is a key member of the sky sports commentary team. His voice will be heard
 
Cant wait to hear Nasser Hussains views on this am sure it will be the same.
 
You sure the ICC, ECB are not listening. These journalists including Atherton are highly respected and a key part of the cricketing fraternity. Atherton is a key member of the sky sports commentary team. His voice will be heard

His voice will be heard....and then everyone will sip on a pint of beer at the pub....and then it will be the end of it.


This is the harsh reality
 
England have failed to repay debt they owe to Pakistan


If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable, but to cite Covid fatigue, effectively, is to have a short memory of what touring teams, not least Pakistan, went through in England last summer at the height of the pandemic, so helping to save the professional game from financial catastrophe. At the time of Pakistan’s arrival last year, Covid death rates in this country were the third highest in the world, more than 150 times the rate in Pakistan. Still Pakistan came, keeping who knows how many professional cricketers and support staff in their jobs.
he is right. Covid fatigue is a far fetched prediction and a very silly smoke screen.

IMO ECB just didn't have the guts to repeat New Zealand statement after the backlash that New Zealand got.
and why ECB has to depend upon those players who are worried about getting fatigued within 4 days? Who are those players?
 
Predictable nonsense by Atherton. Not surprised at all.

Has our number one cheerleader, the cliche machine, Nasser Hussain spoken yet?
 
England have failed to repay debt they owe to Pakistan


If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable, but to cite Covid fatigue, effectively, is to have a short memory of what touring teams, not least Pakistan, went through in England last summer at the height of the pandemic, so helping to save the professional game from financial catastrophe. At the time of Pakistan’s arrival last year, Covid death rates in this country were the third highest in the world, more than 150 times the rate in Pakistan. Still Pakistan came, keeping who knows how many professional cricketers and support staff in their jobs.
he is right. Covid fatigue is a far fetched prediction and a very silly smoke screen.

IMO ECB just didn't have the guts to repeat New Zealand statement after the backlash that New Zealand got.
and why ECB has to depend upon those players who are worried about getting fatigued within 4 days? Who are those players?

I think ECB used that excuse because they would have known they owed Pakistan a debt from last year, and this was their mealy mouthed way of getting round it. I have to say I find the whole thing embarrassing. Cricketers are earning a lot of money to play the game nowadays, there should be some pride in wearing the England shirt abroad in foreign climates, they seem to have become a very precious and fragile lot.
 
Predictable nonsense by Atherton. Not surprised at all.

Has our number one cheerleader, the cliche machine, Nasser Hussain spoken yet?

Why are you not surprised? Are these English commentators on PCB payroll perhaps? Is that what you think?
 
Predictable nonsense by Atherton. Not surprised at all.

Has our number one cheerleader, the cliche machine, Nasser Hussain spoken yet?

Takes a BCCI, Kohli chear leader to know one.
 
Predictable nonsense by Atherton. Not surprised at all.

Has our number one cheerleader, the cliche machine, Nasser Hussain spoken yet?

Intelligent people who see the whole picture, rather a simpleton like you, looking for attention.
 
"If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable"

All those praising the article read this part right?

He also said that the security team on the ground gave the advice that the security situation was fine.

Did you read that part?
 
Predictable nonsense by Atherton. Not surprised at all.

Has our number one cheerleader, the cliche machine, Nasser Hussain spoken yet?

That's rich coming from someone who thinks Ramiz is a good commentator.
 
It means quite a lot actually, as his words will be read by the British public, he's not doing this to win popularity.

But the British public love excuses like ‘mental fatigue’ and ‘security is paramount’.

Who will he convince? They couldn’t care less
 
It means quite a lot actually, as his words will be read by the British public, he's not doing this to win popularity.

True but I don't think his words are going to have a great effect on public opinion especially considering Western Media is going to look to demonise Pakistan even more due to current events related to China and Afghanistan
 
True but I don't think his words are going to have a great effect on public opinion especially considering Western Media is going to look to demonise Pakistan even more due to current events related to China and Afghanistan

Cricket isn't really a big sport in England anyway so most people wouldn't really be interested in this subject or his views to be honest. But in the cricket fraternity itself his words will have impact. You just have to see how they have stung [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] to see that.
 
Where is our great and esteemed poster mamoona who stated Pakistan had no financial clout?

Here is Athers, "effectively, is to have a short memory of what touring teams, not least Pakistan, went through in England last summer at the height of the pandemic, so helping to save the professional game from financial catastrophe. At the time of Pakistan’s arrival last year, Covid death rates in this country were the third highest in the world, more than 150 times the rate in Pakistan. Still Pakistan came, keeping who knows how many professional cricketers and support staff in their jobs."

As I stated, Pakistan and the Windies literally saved the future of English cricket.
 
Good to see fellow English Cricketers, Journalists calling out the ECB

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I don't know if you've seen the full interview but Kay Burley tried her usual propaganda tactics and Oborne was not having any of it. Good on Oborne who is a terrific author too !
 
Excellent stuff from Atherton, Oborne, and Dobell.

Oborne in particular was raging.

Desperately poor stuff from the ECB.
 
Predictable nonsense by Atherton. Not surprised at all.

Has our number one cheerleader, the cliche machine, Nasser Hussain spoken yet?


rather less predictable than the nonsense you consistently spout on here. ECB said they quit the tour over player welfare concerns (that is the official line security issues notwithstanding). Their high commissioner to pakistan has said the same thing. So it is absolutely bungled handling by them. which one is it? security or player welfare?
You and your ilk were till yesterday bashing pakistanis for being emotional simpletons for their reactions. Now that the white folks are saying it holds more water for the wider world. that is the colonial mindset that is prevalent across the world.

It is absolutely shameful of the ECB to do this. PCB and the pakistan cricket team also risked their well-being touring england in the middle of a pandemic last year and were shafted on accomodations (read george dobell's article), cricket was played by one of these countries right after bomb blasts in BD (within 2 weeks) so this is clearly a double standard at work here.
When SA was blackballed it was for apartheid and the issue was made clear. If Pakistan is not on the touring list for these 'white' countries because of alleged pakistani support for the taliban then that needs to be made clear instead o fthis hogwash about 'security' concerns and 'player welfare'.

PS. i really would request the mods not to edit out this post - i am not being disrespectful here but I feel my reply here is legitimate and not adhominem.
 
The thing is pakistan government is not supporting the taliban and haven't even recognised their goverment .

They initiated the Qatar talks on behest of America who then snook out in the middle of the night like a cat out of a cat flap and handed the whole country with whole cache of weapons to the taliban on a silver platter . They even left lists of interprators and details of Afghans who worked for them for the taliban to find.

And pakistan is being blamed .
 
"If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable"

All those praising the article read this part right?

Did you read it?

Because he is obviously implying that security advice was not the reasoning for cancellation.

It’s like I say had you been dumb to not understand this obvious point, it might have been understandable.

But we know from our experience here at PP that the situation is otherwise…..
 
Did you read it?
Because he is obviously implying that security advice was not the reasoning for cancellation.
It’s like I say had you been dumb to not understand this obvious point, it might have been understandable.
But we know from our experience here at PP that the situation is otherwise…..
Hmm implying Why imply? Why not call spade a spade? Perhaps not sure I guess
 
Some really strong stuff from Athers, Oborne and Dobell. The ECB have ballsed up with this and have come out looking duplicitous and amateurish. Well done RR for his no nonsense statement.
 
Would a comment of support from English players of Pakistani origin - Moeen, Rashid, Saqib and Haseeb make any impact?
 
Some really strong stuff from Athers, Oborne and Dobell. The ECB have ballsed up with this and have come out looking duplicitous and amateurish. Well done RR for his no nonsense statement.

Not to mention the British HC revelations. I think the PCB has very solid grounds to go to the ICC Dispute resolution committee or the CAS for a hefty compensation claim and i hope RR and WK are not fooled by ECB's assurances of touring Pakistan in 2022. Make them sign a hefty amount as a guarantee.
 
Hmm implying Why imply? Why not call spade a spade? Perhaps not sure I guess

Because it turns out that British government didn’t ask ECB to abandon the tour? Also their on ground security consultant is still saying that it is safe to tour Pakistan?
 
Knew it last year that this would happen when Pakistan came here.... roles reversed same thing happened only thing in todays climate is what goes around comes around.... so I expect at some NZ and Eng needing Pak to tour them in less than ideal conditions.... will Pak still travel I bet they will
 
Good to see fellow English Cricketers, Journalists calling out the ECB

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pusillanimous - what a great reminder of a forgotten word.

Perfectly describes some of the pakistanis on this forum who are trying to advocate bootlicking!

pusillanimous!
 
"If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable"

All those praising the article read this part right?

Thanks!

Trying to organise my thoughts and would appreciate some clarity on the below. Per my understanding from various articles including the one above:

- UK govt. did not communicate a decision to the ECB to withdraw and neither did they provide any updated / specific security threat for this particular withdrawal
- UK's security team on the ground has not withdrawn clearance or said that there is any reason to not tour (ESI Risk), following NZC's withdrawal
- UK's travel ministry has not issued updated guidance regarding the travel situation to PAK since the NZC pullout

Was there a specific, directed, credible threat that ECB / UK govt. (effectively asking for something analogous to what NZC cited) have cited in their withdrawal statement?
 
Thanks!

Trying to organise my thoughts and would appreciate some clarity on the below. Per my understanding from various articles including the one above:

- UK govt. did not communicate a decision to the ECB to withdraw and neither did they provide any updated / specific security threat for this particular withdrawal
- UK's security team on the ground has not withdrawn clearance or said that there is any reason to not tour (ESI Risk), following NZC's withdrawal
- UK's travel ministry has not issued updated guidance regarding the travel situation to PAK since the NZC pullout

Was there a specific, directed, credible threat that ECB / UK govt. (effectively asking for something analogous to what NZC cited) have cited in their withdrawal statement?

I am pretty sure that poster is indicating NZC calling it off due to security and many still criticizing.
 
Good PR moves by these ex-cricketers

Talk is cheap
Wonder if these same will travel for PSL for commentary stint if offered.... You know just for solidarity and support to walk the talk...probably yes i guess
 
Everybody knows the whole thing is drama and nothing but to humiliate Pakistan for supporting Taliban. England isn't even pretending to make a good excuse.
 
Predictable nonsense by Atherton. Not surprised at all

Has our number one cheerleader, the cliche machine, Nasser Hussain spoken yet?

The only thing predictable here is your inane response
 
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"If security advice is the reason for the cancellation, that would be totally understandable"

All those praising the article read this part right?

He's talking about England's reasons withdrawing not NZ and NZ didn't share any information with the Pak govt, they kept that info to themselves - clearly the lives of Pakistani civilians is not important enough for the information to be shared and if we're being honest it has nothing to do with security and more to do with geopolitics and the whole Ch!n@ derangement syndrome that is being encouraged in the west. It's a new cold w*r.
 
Everybody knows the whole thing is drama and nothing but to humiliate Pakistan for supporting Taliban. England isn't even pretending to make a good excuse.

It's not even that, it's more to do with the Indo-Pacific conflict
 
Good PR moves by these ex-cricketers

Talk is cheap

George Dobell and Peter Obournes are ex cricketers?

And Atherton cannot really have an ulterior motive - he’s a universally respected commentator who has a job with Sky for life (or at least another decade minimum). He has nothing to gain by showing support to Pakistan. If he never mentions Pakistan again, it will make no difference to his career.
 
Pakistanis are the most “miskeen” people on earth. With a just a few sweet words, you can win their hearts and souls and they will be ready to offer you their heads. That is how emotionally fragile and insecure we are as a nation. Always seeking approval and love from others. It is a pity.

People like Atherton and that other gentleman, Peter Oborne, who has made money out of writing a cliche-infested, heavily romanticized book on Pakistan cricket which is more high fantasy than a historically accurate account (Wounded Tiger: A History of Cricket in Pakistan) have nothing to offer other than words to maintain their PR in Pakistan.

The reality is that you make either of them ECB Chairman today and England would still not tour Pakistan and will be making excuses.
 
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