England have failed to repay debt they owe to Pakistan: Michael Atherton

[TheSultan]

Pakistanis are the most “miskeen” people on earth. With a just a few sweet words, you can win their hearts and souls and they will be ready to offer you their heads. That is how emotionally fragile and insecure we are as a nation. Always seeking approval and love from others. It is a pity.

People like Atherton and that other gentleman, Peter Oborne, who has made money out of writing a cliche-infested, heavily romanticized book on Pakistan cricket which is more high fantasy than a historically accurate account (Wounded Tiger: A History of Cricket in Pakistan) have nothing to offer other than words to maintain their PR in Pakistan.

The reality is that you make either of them ECB Chairman today and England would still not tour Pakistan and will be making excuses.

I would love to know exactly how “the PR in Pakistan” provides Obourne any benefit?

There’s a limit to idiocy. Get rid of the this scared little mouse line of thought and man up. You were born 100 years too late. You would have thrived as the token bootlicking “gunga din” in the days of the British Raj

 

[MenInG]

Heather Knight , England Women's captain:

“We found yesterday that the board had made the decision for us not to go and it’s above our heads a little bit.

“I think the the conversation and the communication between the board and PCA (professional cricketers’ association) is a strong one, and it was a tricky situation with what had gone on with New Zealand.

“I think taking it out of our hands is probably the right thing to do and, and that was done with a view to try and look after the players.

“It’s for the people above us to make those decisions and for us to to get on with them and accept wherever they are.

“Hopefully, sometime in the future we’ll be able to go. I do think it is important for them, particularly in women’s cricket with what’s going on in the region.”

 

[The Scorer]

This is disappointing yes, but I think Pakistan be calm about it. The basis for this tour was not a solid one, Pakistan supposedly did England a favour by touring when the covid outbreak began. It was on this basis that the ECB felt obliged to return a favour to Pakistan for continuing with the tour. (although I think Pakistan got some benefit too, with intensive training and Test experience).

But returning a favour is not a good basis for the commercial reasoning and practical viability of a tour, a tour only happens when it's part of the recognised itinerary of the ICC, its commercially viable and the players are mentally able to give their best, and want to do it.

This where Covid changes everything professional cricketers under immense pressure of the moment living in bubbles for weeks on end and then if you get other negatives on top of this i.e. Pakistan probably unfairly, is seen as a difficult place to tour so under player pressure the easiest thing is to call off a tour like this.

However this does not mean the proper Test match tour will be called off; the pressure of Covid could well be off by then and that is a credible Test tour.

The ECB have been and still are very strong supporters of Pakistan cricket and they will want the relationship to continue. I think on this occasion the ECB has been pressure under from players to who did not want to go, and I think these pressures will increase not just with players not wanting to go to Pakistan but on not wanting to go to other other white ball tours to other countries too - especially with so many lucrative white ball leagues around the world.

The whole cricket calendar needs to be looked at again, there is too much cricket being played, the players are living under a Covid pandemic This means that decisions like this will be made unless the amount of cricket is rationalised reduced and systemised and matches are distributed on a fair basis.

If Pakistan give an understanding response to this, it will hold them in good stead, there is lot of cricket to be played and other countries want to play Pakistan who are an exciting team to watch and fill stadiums., So let's look for a sensible way forward. it may be for a while Pakistan can play some matches abroad. After the pandemic when the bubble problem is gone then matches will be played in Pakistan.

 

[Yk313]

I am pretty sure that poster is indicating NZC calling it off due to security and many still criticizing.

Thank you, that's helpful.

 

[wrongun]

Heather Knight , England Women's captain:

“We found yesterday that the board had made the decision for us not to go and it’s above our heads a little bit.

“I think the the conversation and the communication between the board and PCA (professional cricketers’ association) is a strong one, and it was a tricky situation with what had gone on with New Zealand.

“I think taking it out of our hands is probably the right thing to do and, and that was done with a view to try and look after the players.

“It’s for the people above us to make those decisions and for us to to get on with them and accept wherever they are.

“Hopefully, sometime in the future we’ll be able to go. I do think it is important for them, particularly in women’s cricket with what’s going on in the region.”

Yeah so why not support Pakistan, also a largely Islamic nation who DO allow women full rights- wouldn't that be the best message?

 

[Zaz]

Heather Knight , England Women's captain:

“We found yesterday that the board had made the decision for us not to go and it’s above our heads a little bit.

“I think the the conversation and the communication between the board and PCA (professional cricketers’ association) is a strong one, and it was a tricky situation with what had gone on with New Zealand.

“I think taking it out of our hands is probably the right thing to do and, and that was done with a view to try and look after the players.

“It’s for the people above us to make those decisions and for us to to get on with them and accept wherever they are.

“Hopefully, sometime in the future we’ll be able to go. I do think it is important for them, particularly in women’s cricket with what’s going on in the region.”

Please do not do us any favours heather

If your not interested in coming to pakistan genuinely id rather u didnt bother

Im getting sick of the sorry excuses that including you are making

Its a disgraceful decision from.your board and as captain if you cant acknowledge that keep quiet

 

[MenInG]

Former England cricketer David Gower has questioned the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB)’s decision to call off Pakistan tour.

While speaking on Sky News, Gower said that England’s decision to back out of Pakistan tour did not make any sense.

“I really can’t see the logic because it was going to be four or five days for the men in Pakistan, so hardly onerous, hardly a big bubble. I know they have got lots coming up this winter, I know there is a World T20 coming up and it was sighted that it wasn’t perfect preparation to that. Well, it’s all very insubstantial,” said Gower.

He also cited Pakistan’s recent tour of England, where the home side assembled a new squad in a couple of days’ time after a Covid-19 outbreak.

“I think the broader issues, the broader morals should have trumped all that. We could have found a team to go if we had asked around as we proved in the summer when Covid struck. Pakistan came to Covid-ridden England and risked all that. We put out a brand new squad in two days’ time, which actually happened to beat Pakistan. It was great cricket, it was fascinating to watch,” he said.

“We could have found 14 guys to go very, very easily, I’m sure,” he concluded.

The ECB cited “increasing concerns about travelling to the region” just days after New Zealand also pulled out of a tour to Pakistan over security concerns.

However, the ECB statement highlighted player welfare as the key consideration with many feeling the strain of operating in bubbles to prevent the spread of coronavirus cases over the past two years.

https://cricketpakistan.com.pk/en/n...-slams-englands-decision-to-call-off-pakistan

 

[mastimasti]

The tide is truly against England on this one...NZ had the excuse of "security" and they just about got away with it. The ECB did not use that excuse and have maintained radio silence since. The excuse they did use was nonsensical, it basically amounted to "players are too tired" and yet the tour was planned in advance, some of their test players were not going to be in the T20 squad, the squad was already prepped to play the IPL...and this is what it boils down to. The English former cricketers and journos know whats going on here. The English players wanted time and money in the IPL.

 

[Rana]

All will be forgotten next week and it will be business as usual

The big 4 boards will continue to step on the smaller boards

The sense of privilege and entitlement will continue

IPL will continue to be the main priority and everything else will be adjusted around it

Not sure who these articles and sentiments serve besides the writer themselves

 

[mastimasti]

All will be forgotten next week and it will be business as usual

The big 4 boards will continue to step on the smaller boards

The sense of privilege and entitlement will continue

IPL will continue to be the main priority and everything else will be adjusted around it

Not sure who these articles and sentiments serve besides the writer themselves

Who are the big 4 boards?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Who are the big 4 boards?

The three major white countries and the one that would like to emulate them.

 

[mastimasti]

The three major white countries and the one that would like to emulate them.

haha but I don't think that's true.

the big 3 makes sense (obviously including the BCCI here) but neither NZ nor SA are a "big" board. Neither financially nor in terms of big viewing figures.

 

[Saj]

ECB getting a lot of criticism over this, but it's pretty clear that they will be comfortable if their buddies are ok with the decision.

All about the $$s

 

[Amjid Javed]

ECB getting a lot of criticism over this, but it's pretty clear that they will be comfortable if their buddies are ok with the decision.

All about the $$s

As ive mentioned before englands 5 priorities are

Full summer of home tests
T20 Blast / 100
series vs India
IPL
ICC tourneys

they are even looking to not have Ashes this year, this is how little they care for anything else.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

Pakistanis are the most “miskeen” people on earth. With a just a few sweet words, you can win their hearts and souls and they will be ready to offer you their heads. That is how emotionally fragile and insecure we are as a nation. Always seeking approval and love from others. It is a pity.

People like Atherton and that other gentleman, Peter Oborne, who has made money out of writing a cliche-infested, heavily romanticized book on Pakistan cricket which is more high fantasy than a historically accurate account (Wounded Tiger: A History of Cricket in Pakistan) have nothing to offer other than words to maintain their PR in Pakistan.

The reality is that you make either of them ECB Chairman today and England would still not tour Pakistan and will be making excuses.

Contradiction in your statement. If pakistanis are the most miskeen people then why gentleman like peter obrone wants PR in pakistan? What miskeen people can give him in return?

 

[PakLFC]

Athers is a highly intelligent man who one expects honesty and truth from. Pak will get it's own back in future, I am very confident about this. I feel next year this is just the start of such things that is the process of Cricket even Sport being restructured. I keep saying the problem is our habit of being to nice to every foreigner and and sports team that visit Pak. This "cornered tigers" nonsense does my head in, we have to move on from such shallow words and obsession we everything IK say's.

I do feel that in Ramiz Pak has a chairman who feels the anger of Pak fans. We have to make playing Pak so wealthy that everyone wants to play us.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

ECB getting a lot of criticism over this, but it's pretty clear that they will be comfortable if their buddies are ok with the decision.

All about the $$s

Cricket is a sport built on England's colonial empire, so their buddies are quite limited, and their partners will be those who would prefer to keep it limited if they can earn more money from it, even from a second class position.

 

[mastimasti]

Athers is a highly intelligent man who one expects honesty and truth from. Pak will get it's own back in future, I am very confident about this. I feel next year this is just the start of such things that is the process of Cricket even Sport being restructured. I keep saying the problem is our habit of being to nice to every foreigner and and sports team that visit Pak. This "cornered tigers" nonsense does my head in, we have to move on from such shallow words and obsession we everything IK say's.

I do feel that in Ramiz Pak has a chairman who feels the anger of Pak fans. We have to make playing Pak so wealthy that everyone wants to play us.

Teams do want to play you....it's the third biggest tour in England, one of the biggest for Aus etc etc etc, unfortunately we do not play Pakistan but it is the great darkness of our nation and the bigotry which runs through it.

The problem is, all these countries are happy to invite you, give you full tours and you are all more than happy to tour without anything in return. It's time for the PCB to grow a backbone and become a professional organisation.

 

[Amjid Javed]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...-claims-ECB-pulling-months-Pakistan-tour.html

Its in the daily mail that england players werent even asked about the tour. ECB made up a rubbish excuse not to tour. This was a supposide good will tour. Englands next tour is scheduled so if same excuses are made PCB should look at compensation measures.

 

[princeuk]

This whole think just sucks big time, Pakistan dont deserve this treatment, for a very short tour england could easily have made it and back without any hassle, thanks to NZ this whole thing flaired up again.

 

[PakLFC]

Teams do want to play you....it's the third biggest tour in England, one of the biggest for Aus etc etc etc, unfortunately we do not play Pakistan but it is the great darkness of our nation and the bigotry which runs through it.

The problem is, all these countries are happy to invite you, give you full tours and you are all more than happy to tour without anything in return. It's time for the PCB to grow a backbone and become a professional organisation.

I am not sure who you are calling "our nation" here the Aussies or Pakistanis?. As I until playing Pak is financially appealing to players they will be reluctant to travel.

The home team makes most of the money in any tour. Pak being well supported abroad is used by other boards to make money. When it is time to reciprocate for other teams to travel to Pak thereby making Pak money they keep making silly excuses. Ramiz finally realised is all about money not Martin Guptill's wife being threatened.

Make playing Pak financially beneficial then they'll come running.

 

[drubwrubnat]

This whole think just sucks big time, Pakistan dont deserve this treatment, for a very short tour england could easily have made it and back without any hassle, thanks to NZ this whole thing flaired up again.

Its upto you to answer, a question mark on your locus standii ! By you i mean the local diaspora.

Having all the right answers, supported the ECB through thick & thin, sacrificed so much, you cant even reach to Ian ward to ask him why did they do it?
Do you have answer ?
Why did they recall the tour? Do they have the right to fill their coffers, while milking you dry? Let them say it to your face, but you cant even get a response. With all your talk & pomp , i ask again -

What is the locus standii of 1.5 million diaspora ?

Serious question but feel free to keep the answer to yourselves , India dont care!

 

[OMB]

Former England Skipper Mike Atherton Asks ECB to End Silence on Pakistan Tour Cancellation

Former England skipper Mike Atherton has castigated the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) for maintaining a stoic silence following their decision to cancel the upcoming men’s and women’s cricket team tours of Pakistan recently.

The ECB had on September 20 announced that the tour of Pakistan in October by their men’s and women’s teams has been cancelled due to “increasing concerns about travelling to the region." The trip, which would have been the men’s team first trip to Pakistan after 2005 and first ever by the women’s team, was in serious doubt since New Zealand men’s team pulled out of their white-ball series on Friday, citing security concerns.

In a statement, the ECB had said, “The mental and physical well-being of our players and support staff remains our highest priority and this is even more critical given the times we are currently living in. We know there are increasing concerns about travelling to the region and believe that going ahead will add further pressure to a playing group who have already coped with a long period of operating in restricted Covid environments. There is the added complexity for our Men’s T20 squad. We believe that touring under these conditions will not be ideal preparation for the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup, where performing well remains a top priority for 2021."

However, Atherton said in his column for The Times on Saturday that, “The ECB’s silence is deafening. The board assumes it can put out a feeble, mealy-mouthed statement and hide behind it for good, saying nothing more. Pakistan’s cricketers, who spent two months in a biosecure bubble here last summer to help save the game from financial catastrophe, their administrators, who have done so much to get cricket back to that country, and supporters deserve better. The game in this country deserves better."

Atherton said the Pakistan Cricket Board was being given conflicting signals by the ECB on why the tour had been cancelled, and everyone was trying to pass on the buck to the other.

“The chairman of the PCB, Ramiz Raja, revealed this week that his opposite number, Ian Watmore, implied the decision was out of his, Watmore’s, hands. When Wasim Khan, the chief executive of the PCB, was rung by the ECB’s chief operating officer, David Mahoney, to call the tour off, Mahoney gave no specifics. When Wasim was called by the chief executive of the ECB, Tom Harrison, two days later, he was told the ECB could not get a team on the plane," said Atherton.

Atherton added that with no one in the ECB coming forward to explain what exactly what happened and why the tour was cancelled, the England women’s team skipper Heather Knight has been left to answer queries all week long.

“In the absence of anyone from the ECB fronting up, Heather Knight, the captain of the England women’s team, was left to answer questions on the issue this week. The only England men’s player to have spoken has been Jos Buttler, who expressed some sympathy for Pakistan."

Atherton said the “ECB wants the story to disappear but the only thing that has disappeared has been its chairman. Watmore has been silent for five days since the cancellation was announced - one day longer than the proposed tour to Pakistan was due to last."

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/former-england-skipper-mike-atherton-asks-ecb-to-end-silence-on-pakistan-tour-cancellation-4244423.html

 

[MenInG]

Ian Chappell stands for Pakistan, says, ‘treatment meted out to Pakistan cricket very harsh’ check why: Former Australia skipper Ian Chappell has said that the loopholes in international cricket scheduling have come to the forefront in the last month after New Zealand and England called off their tours to Pakistan.

He also highlighted no series is 100 per cent guaranteed of going ahead after even the fifth Test between India and England got cancelled due to COVID-19 concerns. New Zealand had called off their tour to Pakistan while being in the country and they decided to go back home right ahead of the first ODI after receiving a security threat. England followed suit and the ECB cited ‘player welfare’ as the primary reason.

“Cricket has only itself to blame for the bloated, unworkable schedule that the Covid pandemic has blown up like a left-over land mine. First, there was England’s withdrawal from a December 2020 ODI series in South Africa following a Covid outbreak. The pace of scheduling breakdowns picked up recently with India’s refusal to play the last Test in the five-match series against England. That was followed in quick succession by New Zealand’s last-minute withdrawal from a T20 series with Pakistan, which prompted England to cancel their proposed men’s and women’s tour of that country,” Chappell wrote in his column for ESPNcricinfo.

“There’s no doubt that completing cricket tours unhindered during the pandemic is a precarious business. Just surviving from day to day is an accomplishment in the current climate. Nevertheless, the treatment meted out to Pakistan, in particular, appears to be excessively harsh, considering the way they have unselfishly toured other countries during the pandemic,” he added.

Further talking about how Pakistan has been treated unfairly, Chappell said: “Pakistan has now learned a lesson about the game that the former England captain and accomplished broadcaster Tony Lewis once eloquently expounded about on air. After a particularly strenuous overseas winter bonding session, the England team had quickly found itself in trouble after the loss of early wickets in the first Test of the summer. “Ah, that’s better,” chanted Lewis, “now the England players will understand the reality of the situation: it’s every man for himself.” Or, as it might be more correct to say In modern cricket parlance: “It’s every man and woman for themselves.”

“This is especially so in the lamentable case of Afghanistan, where the dreaded Taliban have more or less decreed female sport is a no-no. This will more than likely result in the Afghanistan men’s team having their first Test with Australia cancelled, and their probable ultimate removal from the status of Test-playing nation. An international schedule that has lately flourished like a mushroom in the dark is now resembling a block of Jarlsberg cheese with its trademark holes,” he added.

https://www.insidesport.co/ian-chap...out-to-pakistan-cricket-very-harsh-check-why/

 

[Saj]

The silence is deafening from ECB. Still nothing official from them.

 

[James]

My feeling is that the ECB in their arrogance thought they would be able to easily get away with cancelling this tour and not providing an explanation, but that they also greatly underestimated the support for and goodwill towards Pakistan cricket around the world, including within England.

 

[UzmanBeast]

The silence is deafening from ECB. Still nothing official from them.

They have just been bashed from all sides.

Firstly, they've squandered a good relationship with PCB, and angered a very large Pakistani fanbase in England.

Then, their excuse which they expected that players and officials would stand with has failed in an amusing manner. Neither the British High Commission, nor their own government, nor their ministers, nor their players stand with this decision.

They have been seemingly battered from all sides, and even their chairman has been blasted by the English press and former players who are against this decision.

They are in the meat grinder at the moment, and if they don't play this situation correctly, it will create problems for them in the future.

They've ****** off South Africa by canceling a series, and the same with Sri Lanka. They've gotten on CA's nerves about the Ashes, and have also created a divide with India following the cancellation of the 5th Test and started the blame game about the IPL (initially refusing to send their players). They also don't have a very profitable and friendly relationship with Bangladesh Cricket Board.

The bottom line is that not just Pakistan, but most of the world wants to know what prompted them to act like such idiots.

It's no surprise that they are unable to produce any statement, they are simply too arrogant to admit that they were wrong in doing what they did.

Neither can they back-track and say security was an issue because the British High Commission has publicly stated that the situation was good enough for Cricket to continue.

They can't even defend player welfare because their ace players are running around in the IPL.

 

[shamaan]

Good to see that the ECB are getting a bashing from all sides

 

[ahsan17]

They have just been bashed from all sides.

Firstly, they've squandered a good relationship with PCB, and angered a very large Pakistani fanbase in England.

Then, their excuse which they expected that players and officials would stand with has failed in an amusing manner. Neither the British High Commission, nor their own government, nor their ministers, nor their players stand with this decision.

They have been seemingly battered from all sides, and even their chairman has been blasted by the English press and former players who are against this decision.

They are in the meat grinder at the moment, and if they don't play this situation correctly, it will create problems for them in the future.

They've ****** off South Africa by canceling a series, and the same with Sri Lanka. They've gotten on CA's nerves about the Ashes, and have also created a divide with India following the cancellation of the 5th Test and started the blame game about the IPL (initially refusing to send their players). They also don't have a very profitable and friendly relationship with Bangladesh Cricket Board.

The bottom line is that not just Pakistan, but most of the world wants to know what prompted them to act like such idiots.

It's no surprise that they are unable to produce any statement, they are simply too arrogant to admit that they were wrong in doing what they did.

Neither can they back-track and say security was an issue because the British High Commission has publicly stated that the situation was good enough for Cricket to continue.

They can't even defend player welfare because their ace players are running around in the IPL.

Another lesson here for the bootlickers and their advocates (e.g. many people from India). The only one having issues with the statements made by Ramiz, Hafeez and others are the bootlickers themselves and their advocates. The people with any influence and of matter are siding with Pakistan in this case.

 

[Savak]

I am hearing that there is pressure on the ECB to cancel the ashes and to tour Pakistan instead given how badly the backlash has been

 

[Rana]

ECB CEO Tom Harrison needs to go

His sorry attitude is the reason why the players are so powerful!

 

[Varun]

I am hearing that there is pressure on the ECB to cancel the ashes and to tour Pakistan instead given how badly the backlash has been

Frankly that's the last thing I would expect to happen.

Especially since England are set to have a full tour of Pakistan in early-2022 (which may or may not come to pass).

 

[OMB]

Another lesson here for the bootlickers and their advocates (e.g. many people from India). The only one having issues with the statements made by Ramiz, Hafeez and others are the bootlickers themselves and their advocates. The people with any influence and of matter are siding with Pakistan in this case.

Your perception and you can have it but I feel it is wrong.
People who ae advocating a different approach need not be called bootlickers and it doesn't mean all of them are not siding with Pakistan.
Maybe they have a different point of view and calling them boot lickers doesn't give you any superiority over them.
England may not cancel their tour next year and maybe New Zealand will give an apology under pressure and normal relations will resume but no, it doesn't mean so called boot lickers and their advocates will be proved wrong and you will be proved right. If anything of that sort happens, it will be due to pressure behind the scenes and not by "dropping the mike" statements.

 

[mastimasti]

I am not sure who you are calling "our nation" here the Aussies or Pakistanis?. As I until playing Pak is financially appealing to players they will be reluctant to travel.

The home team makes most of the money in any tour. Pak being well supported abroad is used by other boards to make money. When it is time to reciprocate for other teams to travel to Pak thereby making Pak money they keep making silly excuses. Ramiz finally realised is all about money not Martin Guptill's wife being threatened.

Make playing Pak financially beneficial then they'll come running.

I assumed you were Pakistani and like I said, many teams want Pakistan for their home tours. Not going to repeat the rest, it's just basic understanding of the game.

 

[wrongun]

I am not sure who you are calling "our nation" here the Aussies or Pakistanis?. As I until playing Pak is financially appealing to players they will be reluctant to travel.

The home team makes most of the money in any tour. Pak being well supported abroad is used by other boards to make money. When it is time to reciprocate for other teams to travel to Pak thereby making Pak money they keep making silly excuses. Ramiz finally realised is all about money not Martin Guptill's wife being threatened.

Make playing Pak financially beneficial then they'll come running.

I agree with you on many fronts. The excuses for not touring Pakistan quite often just do. not. stack up.

Pakistan have been treated terribly.

Pakistan have recently gone above & beyond to tour other countries- endure quarantine, covid risks, players ctaching it but still the fulfilled with barely a complaint.

No one has reciprocated in kind.

I'd be hopping mad if I was a Pakistan fan (and I am, as my second team since I was a 13 year old local in 1992). It's not just.

But Pakistan don't make money for many boards. They are a loss tour in Australia. And I suspect , many countries. It's 25 years since the 90s bro.

A whole generation have never even seen Pakistan be competitive. Not a drawcard right now. No pace, no mystery spin. One good batsman.

Just not a draw. Ramiz is right you need to force that by getting a better team to swing things.

 

[Yk313]

I am hearing that there is pressure on the ECB to cancel the ashes and to tour Pakistan instead given how badly the backlash has been

Level of sobriety of sources?

 

[sweep_shot]

England definitely screwed it up badly.

It didn't feel like a security issue and more like politics.

 

[princeuk]

What is the ECB thinking of all their decisions of late....i wonder if they were scheduled to play pakistan BEFORE NZ were scheduled to play if they would have made the same decision?

 

[mastimasti]

I agree with you on many fronts. The excuses for not touring Pakistan quite often just do. not. stack up.

Pakistan have been treated terribly.

Pakistan have recently gone above & beyond to tour other countries- endure quarantine, covid risks, players ctaching it but still the fulfilled with barely a complaint.

No one has reciprocated in kind.

I'd be hopping mad if I was a Pakistan fan (and I am, as my second team since I was a 13 year old local in 1992). It's not just.

But Pakistan don't make money for many boards. They are a loss tour in Australia. And I suspect , many countries. It's 25 years since the 90s bro.

A whole generation have never even seen Pakistan be competitive. Not a drawcard right now. No pace, no mystery spin. One good batsman.

Just not a draw. Ramiz is right you need to force that by getting a better team to swing things.

The Aus tour was a loss? I'd be surprised.

Pakistan are huge financially in England, second only to Ind/Aus. And if Pakistan tours make a loss in Aus then every other team must be abysmal over there bar Eng and Ind. Heck I can only imagine what non England teams make in WI or SA then.

 

[mastimasti]

I wanted to bring up that the player's association has announced they were scheduled for 5 meetings with the ECB to determine the tour...even before the third meeting began the ECB cancelled the tour without consultation.

So the ECB's excuse that the players would be too tired seems to be a lie and they never raised security as a concern, not to mention the British government itself through the ECB under the pass with their statements.

If this is the case, then what was the actual reason? And why is there now radio silence from the ECB for over a week?

 

[ahsan17]

I wanted to bring up that the player's association has announced they were scheduled for 5 meetings with the ECB to determine the tour...even before the third meeting began the ECB cancelled the tour without consultation.

So the ECB's excuse that the players would be too tired seems to be a lie and they never raised security as a concern, not to mention the British government itself through the ECB under the pass with their statements.

If this is the case, then what was the actual reason? And why is there now radio silence from the ECB for over a week?

Most likely they are just hoping for things to quiet down and blow over.

 

[PakLFC]

I assumed you were Pakistani and like I said, many teams want Pakistan for their home tours. Not going to repeat the rest, it's just basic understanding of the game.

Yes I am Pakistani. As I said we have to make Pak Cricket financially wealthy so that other teams want to play us. Until that happens they will naturally prefer playing in the IPL and other top sides.

 

[PakLFC]

I agree with you on many fronts. The excuses for not touring Pakistan quite often just do. not. stack up.

Pakistan have been treated terribly.

Pakistan have recently gone above & beyond to tour other countries- endure quarantine, covid risks, players ctaching it but still the fulfilled with barely a complaint.

No one has reciprocated in kind.

I'd be hopping mad if I was a Pakistan fan (and I am, as my second team since I was a 13 year old local in 1992). It's not just.

But Pakistan don't make money for many boards. They are a loss tour in Australia. And I suspect , many countries. It's 25 years since the 90s bro.

A whole generation have never even seen Pakistan be competitive. Not a drawcard right now. No pace, no mystery spin. One good batsman.

Just not a draw. Ramiz is right you need to force that by getting a better team to swing things.

I always believe in looking at oneself instead of the rival. When our own Cricket is a mess and the PCB being so unprofessional it will show at the highest level. As I often say we are always trying to be so nice to everyone else. Why could we not refuse to tour England when the Covid crises was at it's peak in the UK? Others see our desperation then use it to their advantage.

One gets the impression that we would happily play in the north pole to please other countries. Other teams take us for granted because we never show any back bone. They say "jump" and we say"how high?". Other teams take advantage of our desperate attitude that they can just walk away five minutes before the match is supposed to start.

If we are strong at the top it the effects will trickle down to the bottom. Seeing the Cricket mad population in Pak the PCB should be the second strongest board in the world instead we liger at the very bottom with the likes of Afghanistan. No top side plays these second rate sides like Zimbabwe and Afghanistan as much as we do.

The team is not as bad as you make it out to be. It is the politics behind it that has ruined Pak Cricket.

 

[Saj]

Disgusting that the ECB hierarchy have not had the decency to even speak about this and instead put out the bizarre press release.

 

[Rana]

Disgusting that the ECB hierarchy have not had the decency to even speak about this and instead put out the bizarre press release.

The ECB have not even addressed the 5th Test situation properly either.

This ceo Tom Harrison is one who just wants to shirk responsibility by playing the mental health card for just about anything!

 

[zn426]

I agree with you on many fronts. The excuses for not touring Pakistan quite often just do. not. stack up.

Pakistan have been treated terribly.

Pakistan have recently gone above & beyond to tour other countries- endure quarantine, covid risks, players ctaching it but still the fulfilled with barely a complaint.

No one has reciprocated in kind.

I'd be hopping mad if I was a Pakistan fan (and I am, as my second team since I was a 13 year old local in 1992). It's not just.

But Pakistan don't make money for many boards. They are a loss tour in Australia. And I suspect , many countries. It's 25 years since the 90s bro.

A whole generation have never even seen Pakistan be competitive. Not a drawcard right now. No pace, no mystery spin. One good batsman.

Just not a draw. Ramiz is right you need to force that by getting a better team to swing things.

Are you joking? What is this nonsense? In the last 20 years, Pakistan has made two T20 WC finals and won 1, gotten to #1 in the test rankings, whitewashed a world #1 in a test series, won an Asia cup, won a champions trophy, drawn two tours in England...
You can't do that many things and consider Pakistan a nobody in cricket.

 

[Itachi]

Are you joking? What is this nonsense? In the last 20 years, Pakistan has made two T20 WC finals and won 1, gotten to #1 in the test rankings, whitewashed a world #1 in a test series, won an Asia cup, won a champions trophy, drawn two tours in England...
You can't do that many things and consider Pakistan a nobody in cricket.

In the last "20 years".... That's where the problem is. Past glory is failing to define who you are.

 

[mastimasti]

Most likely they are just hoping for things to quiet down and blow over.

It will blow over...but behind the scenes things will not be the same. I have a sense that the PCB is not letting this slide and it's clear that former cricketers and journos in England are not pleased. This will pop up on comms a fair bit in the coming season.

 

[Saj]

Disgusting that the ECB hierarchy have not had the decency to even speak about this and instead put out the bizarre press release.

Sort of an apology from ECB but hardly sincere.

I'm pretty sure come 2022 they'll cancel again.

 

[James]

England definitely screwed it up badly.

It didn't feel like a security issue and more like politics.

not England. The ECB.

Almost all England fans I have spoken to are opposed to the ECB's actions here. I'd say >90%.

The England players also really wanted to tour Pakistan, as Joe Root and Chris Silverwood have made clear in the past.

The ECB have behaved very poorly on this one.

 

[Mamoon]

Are you joking? What is this nonsense? In the last 20 years, Pakistan has made two T20 WC finals and won 1, gotten to #1 in the test rankings, whitewashed a world #1 in a test series, won an Asia cup, won a champions trophy, drawn two tours in England...
You can't do that many things and consider Pakistan a nobody in cricket.

wrongun is Australian. You have to consider the Australian perspective.

The last time Pakistan did not lose a Test match in Australia, Javed Miandad was still playing international cricket.

This hilarious fact sums up everything. Pakistan cricket is viewed as a joke in Australia. No one takes us seriously or even wants us to tour.

Australia is a competitive sporting nation. They want to be challenged. They don’t like free wins.

 

[OMB]

"Has ECB chairman Ian Watmore been living under a rock?" : Michael Atherton

Following on from England’s cancellation of their tour of Pakistan, Wasim Khan, the 50-year-old chief executive of the Pakistan Cricket Board has resigned. Birmingham-born and a former player with Warwickshire, Sussex and Derbyshire, Wasim was widely admired for the job he had done in helping to bring back international cricket to the country.

Wasim tendered his resignation with four months left of his contract to run. He had been running the PCB since his appointment in early 2019 and had staked his reputation on bringing international teams back to the country after a long period in exile following the terrorist attack on the Sri Lanka team bus in 2009.

Ramiz Raja, the new chairman of the PCB, has been flexing his muscles since his appointment a fortnight ago and the abrupt withdrawal of New Zealand in the middle of their tour, and England’s cancellation will not have helped Wasim. England are due to undergo a full tour of Pakistan in 2022 but after a breakdown of the relationship, the PCB has already admitted to planning for alternative arrangements.

Ian Watmore, the chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board, who has been invisible since the cancellation, spoke for the first time on Tuesday to selected outlets, not including The Times. He offered a further apology but no explanation for the decision.

“I’m very sorry to anyone who feels hurt or let down by our decision, particularly in Pakistan,” he said. “The decision the board made was an extremely difficult one and the board made it with the primary consideration being the welfare and mental health of our players and staff.

“The board took the decision based on its own judgments and it didn’t go out to wider consultation. Had we decided to go forward with the tour, we’d have had to put the proposals to TEPP (the body that represents England players) and the PCA, but it didn’t reach that point,” adding that America’s decision to pull its troops out of Afghanistan had come as a surprise. “I don’t know if you read President Biden’s mind, but I didn’t know he was going to evacuate Afghanistan,” Watmore said.

Given that America had signed the Doha agreement in February 2020 promising a complete withdrawal of troops in May 2021, and that the Biden administration had confirmed months ago that it intended to pull troops out by the end of August 2021, that seemed a strange comment to make. Has Watmore been living under a rock?

It was more of an obfuscation than an apology, and raised more questions than answers. TEPP has confirmed to The Times that they held a number of meetings with the ECB over the tour and how Watmore can say the board made a decision based on the players’ mental health without wider consultation is a mystery.

His comments left Ramiz, his opposite number, unimpressed. Contacted by The Times, Ramiz said: “It is still a very confusing statement . . . Security was not discussed as a road block amongst us. Further, Christian Turner [the British high commissioner to Pakistan] nailed that argument by staying with an unchanged travel advisory for UK. And we know now that player welfare and security was not discussed with the team and, in fact, assumed as being compromised on the pretext of New Zealand withdrawing from the tour.”

It is a mystery that has piqued the interest of Yasmin Qureshi, the MP for Bolton South East and the shadow international development minister. In her role as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Pakistan, she has confirmed that she will be sharing her concerns and demanding some answers from Watmore.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some very odd comments yday from ECB chair; raised more questions than answers<a href="https://t.co/uC00O89iAN">https://t.co/uC00O89iAN</a></p>— Mike atherton (@Athersmike) <a href="https://twitter.com/Athersmike/status/1443480273769967616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 30, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Rana]

Throw Tom Harrison under the bus too!

Ian Whatmore may be living under a rock. But Tom Harrison has been sitting on India’s lap!

 

[mastimasti]

Athers is about to get a few knocks on his door haha

But good on him for raising what is blatantly obvious, this was the ECB's way of completely humiliating Pakistan, it back fired and now that they are humiliated they have no idea how to respond.

 

[MenInG]

Former England captain Michael Atherton has said that Pakistan's inability to play a bilateral series against India is responsible for the financial losses faced by PCB over the past decade.

Atherton added that Pakistan has been forced to play their home matches in UAE as after the attack of Sri Lanka’s bus in 2009, they could not host teams in Pakistan for the better part of the 2010s decade.

India and Pakistan have not played bilateral cricket since January 2013 wherein Pakistan visited their neighbours wherein they played 2 T20Is and 3 ODIs. The two teams have not met in a bilateral Test series since the 2007-08 season.

However, India and Pakistan have been meeting each other at bilateral series with their most recent tie coming at the 2019 World Cup. Efforts to hold bilateral series in the past have not worked in favour, resulting in very limited episodes of one of cricket's greatest rivalries.

"Pakistan's inability to play India in bilateral events has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in the past decade, or how being in exile in the UAE for nearly a decade cost significant amounts of financial and psychological capital," Atherton wrote in his column for The Times.

Atherton further pointed out that Pakistan have played the most number of matches away from home since cricket resumed after the Covid-19 break. Atherton added that countries like England and Australia have had the luxury of backing off from tours or not traveling away from home for a significant period of time.

"When England have pulled out of tours to South Africa, Bangladesh and Pakistan, and when Australia have played no Test matches away from home since the pandemic began, Pakistan have traveled all over the world (and, remember, there are no touring fees paid to the visitors these days). Pakistan have played the most number of matches away from home since Covid struck, by some distance," Atherton further wrote.

https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cr...s-cost-them-a-lot-atherton-1859569-2021-10-01

 

[zn426]

In the last "20 years".... That's where the problem is. Past glory is failing to define who you are.

I used "the last 20 years" to prove that there has been a consistent record of success. Past glory would have been skating by on wins from the 90s while having won nothing since. Something I've already shown is untrue.

 

[zn426]

wrongun is Australian. You have to consider the Australian perspective.

The last time Pakistan did not lose a Test match in Australia, Javed Miandad was still playing international cricket.

This hilarious fact sums up everything. Pakistan cricket is viewed as a joke in Australia. No one takes us seriously or even wants us to tour.

Australia is a competitive sporting nation. They want to be challenged. They don’t like free wins.

That surely explains why they keep cancelling tours to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. They're tired of having their ears boxed in because Aussies can't win in Asia. The last time they played Pakistan in a Test Series in Asia....they lost! As they did to India. They couldn't even win a T20 Tri Series between Pakistan, Zimbabwe, and Australia.

Perhaps you're right! We should stop inviting such uncompetitive, loser teams to play us in Pakistan or UAE. It's just a waste of Pakistan's time!

And pull the bell on it. I won't rehash history with you, but if "no one" wants Pakistan to tour, then the ECB wouldn't have come begging last year.

 

[Mamoon]

That surely explains why they keep cancelling tours to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. They're tired of having their ears boxed in because Aussies can't win in Asia. The last time they played Pakistan in a Test Series in Asia....they lost! As they did to India. They couldn't even win a T20 Tri Series between Pakistan, Zimbabwe, and Australia.

Perhaps you're right! We should stop inviting such uncompetitive, loser teams to play us in Pakistan or UAE. It's just a waste of Pakistan's time!

And pull the bell on it. I won't rehash history with you, but if "no one" wants Pakistan to tour, then the ECB wouldn't have come begging last year.

It is pointless to draw parallels between Pakistan’s performance in Australia and Australia’s performance in Asia.

Over the last 15-20 years, Australian have multiple series in Asia and they still win/draw matches every now and then.

On the contrary, Pakistan have a 100% losing record in Australia since 1995. That is as embarrassing, humiliating and pathetic as it gets.

We cannot even a fluke a win/draw in Australia and even the infamous Law of Averages doesn’t work in our favor.

When I said no one, I mean no one in Australia. Pakistan is obviously viewed more favorably in England partly due to the fact that Pakistan is competitive in England and also due to the fact that English cricket is still suffering from the PTSD of Wasim and Waqar in the 90’s.

As a result, England cricket seems to have a significant soft corner and they romanticize Pakistan cricket. On the other hand, the Australians never shy away from putting us in our place.

 

[Saj]

So England are still out in Australia despite the positive cases within the touring party, rising number of positive Covid cases in Australia and all of the Covid restrictions out there. Yet they wouldn't even set foot in Pakistan due to concerns over mental and physical well-being of the players.

I guess there is no issue regarding the mental and physical well-being of the players out there in Australia at the moment?

 

[Savak]

So England are still out in Australia despite the positive cases within the touring party, rising number of positive Covid cases in Australia and all of the Covid restrictions out there. Yet they wouldn't even set foot in Pakistan due to concerns over mental and physical well-being of the players.

I guess there is no issue regarding the mental and physical well-being of the players out there in Australia at the moment?

Money talks, CA will lose out on $200 million if the Ashes is scrapped. Who cares how much the PCB loses? ECB was going to lose $80 million had WI and Pakistan not toured in 2020. Australia might be due to tour England in 2023 and that is big money for the ECB, they will not want to **** CA off causing them to retaliate.

CA punished CSA by refusing to tour because of the 2018 ball tampering saga

 

[James]

Maybe reads as a bit blunt, however I think it’s becoming increasingly clear that in the political arena of cricket India, Australia, and England just do whatever they want whenever they want with no real consequences being suffered and all of the other nations have to lie down and take it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Maybe reads as a bit blunt, however I think it’s becoming increasingly clear that in the political arena of cricket India, Australia, and England just do whatever they want whenever they want with no real consequences being suffered and all of the other nations have to lie down and take it.

The other nations will just take up other sports eventually. See West Indies as a precursor. Enjoy the games between India and the great white countries, the rest will watch T20 stuff where it's not so exclusive.

 

[ahsan17]

Maybe reads as a bit blunt, however I think it’s becoming increasingly clear that in the political arena of cricket India, Australia, and England just do whatever they want whenever they want with no real consequences being suffered and all of the other nations have to lie down and take it.

In this particular case the prime instigator was NZ by running off based on a hoax. England made the situation worse since their excuses made no sense.

 

[James]

The other nations will just take up other sports eventually. See West Indies as a precursor. Enjoy the games between India and the great white countries, the rest will watch T20 stuff where it's not so exclusive.

Yes, this is a genuine risk.

 

[Saj]

If England had currently been touring Pakistan - the minute the news of the first positive case had come out, they would have been on the first flight home out of Pakistan.

 

[Rana]

If England had currently been touring Pakistan - the minute the news of the first positive case had come out, they would have been on the first flight home out of Pakistan.

If they can do it to SA, who are Pakistan?

 

[Robert]

It is pointless to draw parallels between Pakistan’s performance in Australia and Australia’s performance in Asia.

Over the last 15-20 years, Australian have multiple series in Asia and they still win/draw matches every now and then.

On the contrary, Pakistan have a 100% losing record in Australia since 1995. That is as embarrassing, humiliating and pathetic as it gets.

We cannot even a fluke a win/draw in Australia and even the infamous Law of Averages doesn’t work in our favor.

When I said no one, I mean no one in Australia. Pakistan is obviously viewed more favorably in England partly due to the fact that Pakistan is competitive in England and also due to the fact that English cricket is still suffering from the PTSD of Wasim and Waqar in the 90’s.

As a result, England cricket seems to have a significant soft corner and they romanticize Pakistan cricket. On the other hand, the Australians never shy away from putting us in our place.

But not from the PTSD of Warne and McGrath, for some reason? Or from the PTSD of Marshall and Garner?