England have not just won, but have humiliated India, the "number 1" team

[rollingstoned]

India is a better team at home than Pakistan, no doubt.

However, Pakistan has lost the same number of series at home since 2010 that India has lost (1) and have no control over the pitches that are produced in the UAE.

I think he is referring to drawn series and drawn/lost matches. The only match we lost in this time after the 2012 England series was the one in Pune to australia. Those count toward rankings. The home debate is another one entirely, i actually think the current pitches in UAE suit the present style of cricket Pakistan plays more than the one from 2000-08. They are a different team now than they were then, IMO less stronger for one while still being mercurial.

 

[Mamoon]

Let's say the UAE is "home" (being outside of Pakistan, for a Pakistani team, is home apparently lol), they have only ever lost one series there. India have lost several series in India, so are they really better at home/?

How many series have India played in India, and how many series have Pakistan played in the UAE? You can compare the number of home series defeats that Pakistan have suffered in Pakistan compared to the number of home series defeats India have suffered in India.

Compared to India, Pakistan have always been a weaker home team, and that is because our batting has always been inferior. If we doctor pitches so that our bowlers can 20 wickets, the opposition bowlers will more often than not also run through our batsmen.

Some of the pitches that India have served in the last 5 odd years have been very tough for batsmen, but they still won because their batsmen scored good runs. On those types of pitches, our batsmen will fail more often than not.

 

[shariqnoor]

How many series have India played in India, and how many series have Pakistan played in the UAE? You can compare the number of home series defeats that Pakistan have suffered in Pakistan compared to the number of home series defeats India have suffered in India.

Compared to India, Pakistan have always been a weaker home team, and that is because our batting has always been inferior. If we doctor pitches so that our bowlers can 20 wickets, the opposition bowlers will more often than not also run through our batsmen.

Some of the pitches that India have served in the last 5 odd years have been very tough for batsmen, but they still won because their batsmen scored good runs. On those types of pitches, our batsmen will fail more often than not.

Let's bust this myth too of yours:

Pakistan stopped playing at home in 2009. So here's Pakistan's series record up til then. Percentages in Brackets

Series Played: 54
Series Won by Pakistan: 28 (52%)
Series Won by Others: 13 (24%)
Series Drawn: 13 (24%)

India Series records up till 2009 - making it apples to apples as Pakistan stopped playing at home then

Series Played: 64
Series Won by India: 32 (50%)
Series Won by Others: 16 (25%)
Series Drawn: 16 (25%)

And in terms of W/L ratio for matches played, India have won 69 and lost 38 uptil end of 2009 for a W/L ratio of 1.437.
Pakistan have won 56 and lost 22 till end of 2009 for a W/L ratio of 2.545.

And just to add to it, even if I include Pakistan's UAE record to mix and consider UAE as Pakistan's "home", Pakistan's W/L ratio is 2.281, still greater than India's 1.903.

So next time, please come up with a new criteria of putting down Pakistan because this one didn't work - factually.

 

[Tusker]

Please come up with a flawless ranking system, and also reveal the name of the team that will be numero uno according to your flawless ranking system.

Ohhh thats easy !! We go by performances in England only . There you go a very simple and flawless ranking system made by man. )

 

[Mamoon]

Let's bust this myth too of yours:

Pakistan stopped playing at home in 2009. So here's Pakistan's series record up til then. Percentages in Brackets

Series Played: 54
Series Won by Pakistan: 28 (52%)
Series Won by Others: 13 (24%)
Series Drawn: 13 (24%)

India Series records up till 2009 - making it apples to apples as Pakistan stopped playing at home then

Series Played: 64
Series Won by India: 32 (50%)
Series Won by Others: 16 (25%)
Series Drawn: 16 (25%)

And in terms of W/L ratio for matches played, India have won 69 and lost 38 uptil end of 2009 for a W/L ratio of 1.437.
Pakistan have won 56 and lost 22 till end of 2009 for a W/L ratio of 2.545.

And just to add to it, even if I include Pakistan's UAE record to mix and consider UAE as Pakistan's "home", Pakistan's W/L ratio is 2.281, still greater than India's 1.903.

So next time, please come up with a new criteria of putting down Pakistan because this one didn't work - factually.

Please do not waste your time by bringing out numbers from Cricinfo that anyone with an internet connection can. You just wasted 10 mins for nothing.

W/L ratios and other such percentages do not tell the fully story - Pakistan have been embarrassed at home by the likes of Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe which has not happened to India.

Furthermore, as far as the UAE is concerned, we have failed to beat South Africa in a series twice, we have drawn a series with Sri Lanka and also lost one (which was a whitewash), we have drawn a series with New Zealand as well, and we have also had the privilege of losing a Test to the West Indies.

The only team (who also happened to play a considerable number of games) that we have dominated in the UAE is England, who have lost 5 out of 6 Tests. However, they were literally minutes away from winning the Abu Dhabi Test in 2015 but bad light saved us, and they were very competitive in the 2012 whitewash but we won the key moments again and again.

Simply bringing up W/L ratios does not reflect which team has lost home series to the likes of Sri Lanka and West Indies and which team has not.

India have lost only 1 home Test since 2013. We have lost 6 and were minutes away from losing a 7th match.

Those 6 defeats are the following:

South Africa 2013
Sri Lanka 2014 and 2017 (twice)
New Zealand 2014
West Indies 2016

Compared to India, our home record belongs in the garbage.

 

[shariqnoor]

Please do not waste your time by bringing out numbers from Cricinfo that anyone with an internet connection can. You just wasted 10 mins for nothing.

W/L ratios and other such percentages do not tell the fully story - Pakistan have been embarrassed at home by the likes of Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe which has not happened to India.

Furthermore, as far as the UAE is concerned, we have failed to beat South Africa in a series twice, we have drawn a series with Sri Lanka and also lost one (which was a whitewash), we have drawn a series with New Zealand as well, and we have also had the privilege of losing a Test to the West Indies.

The only team (who also happened to play a considerable number of games) that we have dominated in the UAE is England, who have lost 5 out of 6 Tests. However, they were literally minutes away from winning the Abu Dhabi Test in 2015 but bad light saved us, and they were very competitive in the 2012 whitewash but we won the key moments again and again.

Simply bringing up W/L ratios does not reflect which team has lost home series to the likes of Sri Lanka and West Indies and which team has not.

India have lost only 1 home Test since 2013. We have lost 6 and were minutes away from losing a 7th match.

Those 6 defeats are the following:

South Africa 2013
Sri Lanka 2014 and 2017 (twice)
New Zealand 2014
West Indies 2016

Compared to India, our home record belongs in the garbage.

There's a reason why there's a bold part in my reply when I'm quoting you!!! You are again changing the goalposts as you see fit. The original contention of yours was this:

You can compare the number of home series defeats that Pakistan have suffered in Pakistan compared to the number of home series defeats India have suffered in India.

So unless my English is considerably weaker than yours, I think this has been perfectly well answered in my reply and that states that Pakistan has been better than India in home tests, both in W/L ratios and in SERIES win as you yourself demanded.

Lecturing me to not indulge in W/L ratios does not suit you well when just a few lines later you bring up this gem:

India have lost only 1 home Test since 2013. We have lost 6

Has India been a better home team in the last decade? Absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt. But this wasn't what you said in the first place. You brought up Pakistan's home series records since inception against India's home record since inception and it is clear that Pakistan is better!!!

But continue changing goalposts to your own advantage!!!

 

[Mamoon]

There's a reason why there's a bold part in my reply when I'm quoting you!!! You are again changing the goalposts as you see fit. The original contention of yours was this:

You can compare the number of home series defeats that Pakistan have suffered in Pakistan compared to the number of home series defeats India have suffered in India.

So unless my English is considerably weaker than yours, I think this has been perfectly well answered in my reply and that states that Pakistan has been better than India in home tests, both in W/L ratios and in SERIES win as you yourself demanded.

Lecturing me to not indulge in W/L ratios does not suit you well when just a few lines later you bring up this gem:

India have lost only 1 home Test since 2013. We have lost 6

Has India been a better home team in the last decade? Absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt. But this wasn't what you said in the first place. You brought up Pakistan's home series records since inception against India's home record since inception and it is clear that Pakistan is better!!!

But continue changing goalposts to your own advantage!!!

Losing a series to Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe at home is not the same as losing a series to e.g. South Africa or India, even though they all count the same in W/L ratios. I thought that much was obvious.

Pakistan does not have much to boast about their home record when they have lost to teams that cannot even think of winning in India.

 

[shariqnoor]

Losing a series to Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe at home is not the same as losing a series to e.g. South Africa or India, even though they all count the same in W/L ratios. I thought that much was obvious.

Pakistan does not have much to boast about their home record when they have lost to teams that cannot even think of winning in India.

I've come to the conclusion that you're a contrarian by nature. If all of a sudden PakPassion started to belittle Pakistan's cricketing victories, I would think you would start praising Pakistan just so you could come across on the other side standing alone.

Going with the tide is an idea that does not seem comfortable to you irrespective of whether facts suggest that it's the right thing to do. Because you just never seem to accept that you're wrong on any issue.

Despite facts staring you in the face in this very thread where you implied Pakistan's home record is worse than India's, you very calmly refuted them and tried to nitpick that could twist your point in your favor.

Being in the Private Equity industry, I'd suggest you change your career and join a Hedge Fund. You'd make millions as a contrarian in the HF business.

 

[barah_admi]

How many series have India played in India, and how many series have Pakistan played in the UAE? You can compare the number of home series defeats that Pakistan have suffered in Pakistan compared to the number of home series defeats India have suffered in India.

Compared to India, Pakistan have always been a weaker home team, and that is because our batting has always been inferior. If we doctor pitches so that our bowlers can 20 wickets, the opposition bowlers will more often than not also run through our batsmen.

Some of the pitches that India have served in the last 5 odd years have been very tough for batsmen, but they still won because their batsmen scored good runs. On those types of pitches, our batsmen will fail more often than not.

So it's gone from "Pakistan have los t at home and India haven't" to "how many series". Just as I expected, zero integrity.

 

[Mamoon]

So it's gone from "Pakistan have los t at home and India haven't" to "how many series". Just as I expected, zero integrity.

As a wild guess, Pakistan have probably played around 40 Tests in the UAE. On the contrary, India have probably played around 300 Tests in India.

And yet, you are comfortable with comparing the number of series defeats that both teams have suffered in the UAE and India respectively.

So for your so-called analysis, the fact that India have played roughly 200 more Tests (which obviously means more defeats) does not make any difference, and you are happy to conclude that Pakistan is a better home team because they have only lost one series in the UAE while India have lost several in India.

I think this is what zero integrity looks like.

 

[topspin]

As a wild guess, Pakistan have probably played around 40 Tests in the UAE. On the contrary, India have probably played around 300 Tests in India.

And yet, you are comfortable with comparing the number of series defeats that both teams have suffered in the UAE and India respectively.

So for your so-called analysis, the fact that India have played roughly 200 more Tests (which obviously means more defeats) does not make any difference, and you are happy to conclude that Pakistan is a better home team because they have only lost one series in the UAE while India have lost several in India.

I think this is what zero integrity looks like.

Comparing India's 300 test record to Pakistan's 40 has to be the worst logic I've heard on PP for a long while I have to say. But somehow he has the nerve to call you "zero integrity".

 

[barah_admi]

The score still stands at 4-1 in England. Haven't won a series here in 11 years and have been ranked number one twice in that time. This is the worst number one side since the introduction of the test rankings.

Not only was it a bad scoreline, it's been utter drubbings throughout.