England have not just won, but have humiliated India, the "number 1" team

[enkidu_]

Pakistan have historically been a much better Test team than India so this is a moot point. I am clearly referring to Pakistan's abysmal record in Australia from 1990s onwards. I have lost count of the number of consecutive matches we have lost in Australia. In the last two decades or so, we have easily been the worst touring team in Australia.

And even then our W/L ratio is nearly the same as India's. The difference is that India had good batsmen, and as they say, in Test cricket, batsmen draw you matches, while bowlers win you matches - India thus avoided many losses thanks to its batting while Pak's bowlers relied more on swing than bounce, and that's why they couldn't shine as much in Aus (as compared to England).

But do contrast the W/L ratio of both countries in England.

 

[UP]

Ind/Pak in Australia :

Ind/Pak in England :

Oops got caught with pants down but this troll will come in and say India is bla bla bla and Pakistan is just trash.

What did the troll’s team did in Lords? Got humiliated in 3 days whilst Pak won in 16/18. But matches in London don’t count

 

[Mamoon]

Is it any easier to win in London than outside the capital ?

The ball is still the Dukes, and Anderson and Broad are still tough bowlers in home conditions as India have found out here with this innings defeat. England comprehensively beat South Africa last year at Lord's whilst The Oval has the most pace and bounce of all wickets in England.

The reason for our good results in the last two tours isn't blind luck but because we bothered to prepare for the conditions. However Shastri arrogantly shaved off one day of the only warm up match before the series thinking his team had it all figured out.

Lord's and Oval are usually flat wickets and aid spinners. Edgbaston is England's fortress.

 

[topspin]

England is Pakistan's bogey team in this era. It is strange why Pakistan tends to do better than India in England but strange things do happen in sports. I don't think it is important to cling onto it because India are overall a superior side and do better in most conditions.

I think we are advertising our superior record in England a little too much (specifically Lord's and Oval, since we have lost every non-London Test since Old Trafford 2001) and over-selling it.

I don't get this field day for the hype circle because apart from England, India have been superior in their last away tours:

Australia:

Pakistan - Whitewashed
India - 2 drawn tests

South Africa:

Pakistan - Whitewashed
India - Won 1 test

West Indies:

Pakistan - Won Series 2-1 (3 matches)
India - Won 2-0 (4 matches)

Sri Lanka: Both sides won 2-1 in a 3 match series, but got Pakistan got whitewashed at home last year. Fair to say Pakistan would most likely lose in SL.

New Zealand:

Pakistan: Whitewashed (2 test series)
India: Drawn 1 test (2 test series)

Zimbabwe:

Pakistan 1-1 (most embarrassing of the lot)
India: Haven't played tests in Zimbabwe since 2005 - won 2-0 in a 2 test series

Apart from England, Pakistan is inferior to India playing away from UAE. At home India is the strongest team where they have won against all teams who last toured there.

 

[Mamoon]

Oops got caught with pants down but this troll will come in and say India is bla bla bla and Pakistan is just trash.

What did the troll’s team did in Lords? Got humiliated in 3 days whilst Pak won in 16/18. But matches in London don’t count

No one is arguing history here. Imagine West Indies supporters defending their team because of their history.

Pakistan have historically been better than India, but India have been better from early 2000s onwards. They were the only team that stood up to the great Australian side and also won in England in 2007. In this decade, we have been better in England only. Overall, India are better.

 

[the Great Khan]

This English win is a complete fluke..I mean they got cloudy conditions, won the toss and then just had to bowl at the pitch for it to do something. If India had bowled first kohli would have scored 200 with support from everyone.

Just like ODIS India needs to find a way to nullify bowling in its entirety. Maybe lobby the iCC to only make flat pitches, no dukes, no playing if it's cloudy..also no lbw''s. ..

 

[Mamoon]

I don't get this field day for the hype circle because apart from England, India have been superior in their last away tours:

Australia:

Pakistan - Whitewashed
India - 2 drawn tests

South Africa:

Pakistan - Whitewashed
India - Won 1 test

West Indies:

Pakistan - Won Series 2-1 (3 matches)
India - Won 2-0 (4 matches)

Sri Lanka: Both sides won 2-1 in a 3 match series, but got Pakistan got whitewashed at home last year. Fair to say Pakistan would most likely lose in SL.

New Zealand:

Pakistan: Whitewashed (2 test series)
India: Drawn 1 test (2 test series)

Zimbabwe:

Pakistan 1-1 (most embarrassing of the lot)
India: Haven't played tests in Zimbabwe since 2005 - won 2-0 in a 2 test series

Apart from England, Pakistan is inferior to India playing away from UAE. At home India is the strongest team where they have won against all teams who last toured there.

This is not the right time to pin-point inconvenient facts; it is better to join in the party and celebrate India's loss by reading from the same script as the others.

 

[Thomaskutty]

The entire team needs a serious overhaul. Vijay is finished. Lol Dhawan. Kartik is useless. I will give Rahul this entire series and judge him after that.

It's more about India needing to field different teams for home and overseas tests. I would bring in the youngsters for overseas tours.

 

[UP]

No one is arguing history here. Imagine West Indies supporters defending their team because of their history.

Pakistan have historically been better than India, but India have been better from early 2000s onwards. They were the only team that stood up to the great Australian side and also won in England in 2007. In this decade, we have been better in England only. Overall, India are better.

Tell me how many away Test tours your team has won 2000 onwards? Apart from 2007.

 

[sjahmed23]

India missing characters like Dravid and Laxmann. The new crop, barring kohli, doesn't seem to have the fire to play and do well in test series. Playing in India or at home is too easy for any asian side even bangladesh is beating Australia. Pakistan is the only side in Asia that can compete outside asia, that despite the fact it has not played a home series in 10 years and its players only make fraction of what the indians make.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Pakistan is the only side in Asia that can compete outside asia, that despite the fact it has not played a home series in 10 years

Think about beating SL first before propping up overseas performances which are pretty bad too.

 

[ManFan]

I don't get this field day for the hype circle because apart from England, India have been superior in their last away tours:

Australia:

Pakistan - Whitewashed
India - 2 drawn tests

South Africa:

Pakistan - Whitewashed
India - Won 1 test

West Indies:

Pakistan - Won Series 2-1 (3 matches)
India - Won 2-0 (4 matches)

Sri Lanka: Both sides won 2-1 in a 3 match series, but got Pakistan got whitewashed at home last year. Fair to say Pakistan would most likely lose in SL.

New Zealand:

Pakistan: Whitewashed (2 test series)
India: Drawn 1 test (2 test series)

Zimbabwe:

Pakistan 1-1 (most embarrassing of the lot)
India: Haven't played tests in Zimbabwe since 2005 - won 2-0 in a 2 test series

Apart from England, Pakistan is inferior to India playing away from UAE. At home India is the strongest team where they have won against all teams who last toured there.

This is such a bizarre post.

Both India and Pakistan were whitewashed in their last tours to Australia. Drawn Tests are futile when you have not won one match.

India has played one more tour to SA (which Pakistan will equal later this year) than Pakistan so they have one more win.

Both Pakistan and India won their series in WI but India had one washed out Test and one drawn where West Indies were 388/6.

Now NZ. Funny how you don’t make mention of the fact that Pakistan drew in 2009, won in 2011 and lost after 32 years in 2016. However, India lost in 2003, won in 2009, and lost in 2014.

Zimbabwe is where India has had the clear better record but they haven’t played in thirteen years.

As far as England, we all know that one.

 

[ManFan]

Think about beating SL first before propping up overseas performances which are pretty bad too.

Mate you shouldn’t be talking given the fact that you have won just two overseas Tests in this decade.

 

[Mamoon]

Tell me how many away Test tours your team has won 2000 onwards? Apart from 2007.

They do better in Australia and South Africa, did not get whitewashed in Sri Lanka and even their woman's team won't lose a Test in Zimbabwe.

The only thing that we are better than India at is playing at Lord's and the Oval. That is it.

 

[Savak]

These Indian batsmen Kohli included just love to play their shots and attack every ball, a lifetime of playing on flat IPL type Indian pitches has meant that these batsmen cannot play a grinding patient Boycott type innings even if they were offered a million bucks to do so.

 

[Mamoon]

This is such a bizarre post.

Both India and Pakistan were whitewashed in their last tours to Australia. Drawn Tests are futile when you have not won one match.

India has played one more tour to SA (which Pakistan will equal later this year) than Pakistan so they have one more win.

Both Pakistan and India won their series in WI but India had one washed out Test and one drawn where West Indies were 388/6.

Now NZ. Funny how you don’t make mention of the fact that Pakistan drew in 2009, won in 2011 and lost after 32 years in 2016. However, India lost in 2003, won in 2009, and lost in 2014.

Zimbabwe is where India has had the clear better record but they haven’t played in thirteen years.

As far as England, we all know that one.

Losing a 4 match Test series 2-0 is not called a whitewash.

 

[Savak]

Lol at the Indian ******* bashing Pakistan's overseas performances. Don't they boast about India having much superior batting talent than Pakistan? Then where was it in the current series?

 

[ManFan]

Losing a 4 match Test series 2-0 is not called a whitewash.

The scorecard still reads 2-0.

Which suggests that they failed just like Pakistan to win a single Test match.

As far as them being more competitive, they have won a grand total of ONE match more than us in AUS in the last two decades.

 

[UP]

They do better in Australia and South Africa, did not get whitewashed in Sri Lanka and even their woman's team won't lose a Test in Zimbabwe.

The only thing that we are better than India at is playing at Lord's and the Oval. That is it.

O bhai, leave better shetter - tell me how many away Test tours your team has won 2000 onwards? In record books - winner name stays - not who did better or bad.

Need I remind you what your team went through in 2011 with all those so called legends?

 

[Slog]

Pakistan is better than India in England only, but India competes better in Australia, South Africa and other countries. Overall, India is a better touring side and a much better home side.

Pakistan is much better than India in NZ aswell notwithstanding the last 2-0 loss

 

[topspin]

This is such a bizarre post.

Both India and Pakistan were whitewashed in their last tours to Australia. Drawn Tests are futile when you have not won one match.

India has played one more tour to SA (which Pakistan will equal later this year) than Pakistan so they have one more win.

Both Pakistan and India won their series in WI but India had one washed out Test and one drawn where West Indies were 388/6.

Now NZ. Funny how you don’t make mention of the fact that Pakistan drew in 2009, won in 2011 and lost after 32 years in 2016. However, India lost in 2003, won in 2009, and lost in 2014.

Zimbabwe is where India has had the clear better record but they haven’t played in thirteen years.

As far as England, we all know that one.

1. Incorrect - India did not get whitewashed in their last away series in Australia. Lets not pretend 2-0 loss from 4 tests is the same as losing 3 in 3. I advise looking at the definition of whitewash.

2. "Funny how you don’t make mention of the fact that Pakistan drew in 2009, won in 2011 and lost after 32 years in 2016. However, India lost in 2003, won in 2009, and lost in 2014".

If you read the first line of post 85 the focus was on last away tours because we're looking at recent matters not historical.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan is much better than India in NZ aswell notwithstanding the last 2-0 loss

I am talking about current/recent form. We were whitewashed on our last New Zealand tour. At the moment, Pakistan's only claim of fame is their better record in England over the last two tours. That's it.

While is definitely something to be proud, it doesn't make up for everything else.

 

[Mamoon]

The scorecard still reads 2-0.

Which suggests that they failed just like Pakistan to win a single Test match.

As far as them being more competitive, they have won a grand total of ONE match more than us in AUS in the last two decades.

Yes, but you were misusing the word "whitewash". That was my only objection.

Failing to win a match is not equal to getting whitewashed; whitewashed means losing every single match, or getting Pakistan'ed in Australia, which needs to be a term, since it is the third certainty of life after death and taxes.

 

[ManFan]

1. Incorrect - India did not get whitewashed in their last away series in Australia. Lets not pretend 2-0 loss from 4 tests is the same as losing 3 in 3.

2. "Funny how you don’t make mention of the fact that Pakistan drew in 2009, won in 2011 and lost after 32 years in 2016. However, India lost in 2003, won in 2009, and lost in 2014".

If you read the first line of post 85 the focus was on last away tours because we're looking at recent matters not historical.

I did mention the two teams last three visits to NZ.

PAK lost in 2016 and won in 2011.

IND lost in 2014 and won in 2009.

So they are tied for that.

It would only make sense to see who was better the third time where PAK drew in 2009 and IND lost in 2003.

 

[Monsee]

This is such a bizarre post.

Both India and Pakistan were whitewashed in their last tours to Australia. Drawn Tests are futile when you have not won one match.

India has played one more tour to SA (which Pakistan will equal later this year) than Pakistan so they have one more win.

Both Pakistan and India won their series in WI but India had one washed out Test and one drawn where West Indies were 388/6.

Now NZ. Funny how you don’t make mention of the fact that Pakistan drew in 2009, won in 2011 and lost after 32 years in 2016. However, India lost in 2003, won in 2009, and lost in 2014.

Zimbabwe is where India has had the clear better record but they haven’t played in thirteen years.

As far as England, we all know that one.

Even that is hog wash at best, look for their first ever series win in Zimbabwe, took them quite a few tours to even get there!

 

[ManFan]

Yes, but you were misusing the word "whitewash". That was my only objection.

Failing to win a match is not equal to getting whitewashed; whitewashed means losing every single match, or getting Pakistan'ed in Australia, which needs to a term, since it is the third certainty of life after death and taxes.

Thanks for the insight but I have seen many people on this forum use “whitewash” when talking about a series’ results which read: 1-0-1.

So that is why I used that term in that context.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Bangladesh would have done better at Lords.

 

[Usman Chadda]

You sound sore. Accept that Pak were playing in their home conditions and they had some Pak greats in that team.

Getting bundled out for 50 runs in both innings at home is absolute humiliation.

Why are you bringing up something that happened about 15 odd years ago to justify whats happening to your beloved Indian cricket team in 2018? Why would I be sore about something that happened 15 years ago?

 

[topspin]

I did mention the two teams last three visits to NZ.

PAK lost in 2016 and won in 2011.

IND lost in 2014 and won in 2009.

So they are tied for that.

It would only make sense to see who was better the third time where PAK drew in 2009 and IND lost in 2003.

I think going back more than 5 years is a bit unreasonable because team personnel change quite a lot after that period of time.

I know we've lost MisYou but that's 2 players and even with them we still got whitewashed against most of the top sides away.

 

[ManFan]

I think going back more than 5 years is a bit unreasonable because team personnel change quite a lot after that period of time.

I know we've lost MisYou but that's 2 players and even with them we still got whitewashed against most of the top sides away.

Okay?

Whether historically or recently, Pakistan have always been better visitors to NZ.

I don’t think any team besides AUS/SA against Asian teams can boast of a head-to-head record like Pakistan versus New Zealand.

 

[JaDed]

You lot are ghar ke sher. Suck it up.

Atleast we are that, never been whitewashed by Lanka at home, and didn't take decades to defeat Windies at their home so calm your horses.

 

[ManFan]

Atleast we are that, never been whitewashed by Lanka at home, and didn't take decades to defeat Windies at their home so calm your horses.

You’re first point is correct.

Second, there is a bit more to that.

An honest cricket fan can attest to the fact that PAK drew three consecutive Test series against “that” Windies team of the 80’s. They would have won the last one in 88’ if not for umpiring. Windies got home with TWO wickets.

Than Billy Doctrove robbed in clear daylight mind you, Pakistan the chance to win in 2000 where Windies got home with ONE wicket.

Pakistan’s Test series win in the West Indies was delayed by twenty-nine years.

 

[Mamoon]

Thanks for the insight but I have seen many people on this forum use “whitewash” when talking about a series’ results which read: 1-0-1.

So that is why I used that term in that context.

You are welcome, no problem.

 

[athar330]

Well done England, looking forward to seeing 5-0

 

[Square Drive]

Atleast we are that, never been whitewashed by Lanka at home, and didn't take decades to defeat Windies at their home so calm your horses.

As expected, Lanka and WI losses when our team was in transition are brought up yet again.

How about we talk about the team you lot are getting whopped by right now? We always end up giving them a few phainties in their backyard, but nope, let's keep talking about Lanka and WI if that suits you better.

 

[Cricket-Pundit]

Chopping and Changing done by Kholi throughout his captaincy tenure has made players tentative and worried.. Looks like they're playing for their places rather than playing their normal fluent game.

 

[ManFan]

Chopping and Changing done by Kholi throughout his captaincy tenure has made players tentative and worried.. Looks like they're playing for their places rather than playing their normal fluent game.

He has not played the same Test XI twice in a row.

 

[James]

I am not usually one to drop these kind of predictions in, but given how gaping the gulf in class was between the two sides at Lord’s (with Stokes not playing!) then I think we could be looking at a 5-0 Bollywash here.

 

[Sam99]

He has not played the same Test XI twice in a row.

Never played in his whole captaincy carrier (37 times) last time we played same team was under dhoni's captaincy in england 2014.

 

[pakistani pride]

Chopping and Changing done by Kholi throughout his captaincy tenure has made players tentative and worried.. Looks like they're playing for their places rather than playing their normal fluent game.

Uhmm no. They will become Lions back in Mumbai and Delhi. This chopping and changing has be going since he took over

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Mamoon bhai has taken the created by me to 2 pages SINGLE HANDEDLY, in few hours. Thank you. You should have played for India at Lord's, you would have even won the test single handedly.

 

[JaDed]

As expected, Lanka and WI losses when our team was in transition are brought up yet again.

How about we talk about the team you lot are getting whopped by right now? We always end up giving them a few phainties in their backyard, but nope, let's keep talking about Lanka and WI if that suits you better.

You talk about Indian cricket team all you want, they deserve the flak, I have already mentioned that.

 

[JaDed]

You’re first point is correct.

Second, there is a bit more to that.

An honest cricket fan can attest to the fact that PAK drew three consecutive Test series against “that” Windies team of the 80’s. They would have won the last one in 88’ if not for umpiring. Windies got home with TWO wickets.

Than Billy Doctrove robbed in clear daylight mind you, Pakistan the chance to win in 2000 where Windies got home with ONE wicket.

Pakistan’s Test series win in the West Indies was delayed by twenty-nine years.

India won the first series there in 1971(not even counting 2005 one here), also the test Pak won in Windies in that famous series had some serious missing West Indian players.

No point digging into that, India is humiliated and there is no excuse regarding that.

 

[ManFan]

India won the first series there in 1971(not even counting 2005 one here), also the test Pak won in Windies in that famous series had some serious missing West Indian players.

No point digging into that, India is humiliated and there is no excuse regarding that.

West Indies were not the invincible team prior to 1975.

Yes the First Test in 88’ was missing key players. The Second Test where Pakistan were 30 runs short of chasing 371 (with one wicket left) and the Third Test were full strength.

It shows that Pakistan was not only competitive but within a margin of winning.

But yes they did not win and that is old news.

 

[Square Drive]

You talk about Indian cricket team all you want, they deserve the flak, I have already mentioned that.

Okay fair enough.

 

[InziRules]

I wonder how bitter you have to get towards your own country before you think of wanting Pakistan'd to be a term for whitewashed.

I seriously recommend you talk to someone about this level of bitterness. It's not healthy for you. At this point, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], I think you only post here to bring down Pakistani fans to what you think is their Aukat regarding their performances. It honestly isn't healthy, and I'm not being hateful or spiteful here

 

[ExplicitAI]

England is Pakistan's bogey team in this era. It is strange why Pakistan tends to do better than India in England but strange things do happen in sports. I don't think it is important to cling onto it because India are overall a superior side and do better in most conditions.

I think we are advertising our superior record in England a little too much (specifically Lord's and Oval, since we have lost every non-London Test since Old Trafford 2001) and over-selling it.

Ind/Pak in Australia :

Ind/Pak in England :

I won't lie to you but I always noticed that Pak got crushed in places like Birmingham, Manchester, Nottingham etc. They always up their game in Lords/ Oval.

 

[yasir]

I hope now Indians fan get the true value of these test rankings

India build this lead in ranking, by playing 16/18 test in a row at home, and that too without playing the best team for those conditions... Most of their batsmen looked horrible, IPL based test team strategy has failed miserably. In SA too, other than Kohli, they all were exposed...Batting was suppose to be India's strength!!

 

[zn426]

England is Pakistan's bogey team in this era. It is strange why Pakistan tends to do better than India in England but strange things do happen in sports. I don't think it is important to cling onto it because India are overall a superior side and do better in most conditions.

I think we are advertising our superior record in England a little too much (specifically Lord's and Oval, since we have lost every non-London Test since Old Trafford 2001) and over-selling it.

That's enough. They are not. 2 wins in 28 tests outside Asia doesn't scream "better in all conditions". Quit making excuses for these losers. That's not luck. They don't win outside of Asia. Maybe they'll pay through the nose for Mickey Arthur to fix their side?

 

[Finisher]

Little less humiliating than Pak bundled for less than 60 in two innings, I do not remember but that was in a day or so

That was against arguably the greatest team ever and this against a unsettled team without their best player

 

[Finisher]

I am talking about current/recent form. We were whitewashed on our last New Zealand tour. At the moment, Pakistan's only claim of fame is their better record in England over the last two tours. That's it.

While is definitely something to be proud, it doesn't make up for everything else.

How are you talking about current performances when you're going back nearly 3 decades to count Pakistan's losses

 

[The Googly]

I am talking about current/recent form. We were whitewashed on our last New Zealand tour. At the moment, Pakistan's only claim of fame is their better record in England over the last two tours. That's it.

While is definitely something to be proud, it doesn't make up for everything else.

Brother. This is now too much and I am getting annoyed and offended by your posts (in a sporting sense as it’s only a game).

Please - I am politely requesting you not to continue with your agonisingly negative posts. It honestly seems to upset you when anyone says anything positive about Pakistan. You seem to have made it your mission to jump on these posts in a desperate attempt to dampen any enthusiasm. You belittle our victories. You called the spring tests against England as warmups. You called our champions trophy win a fluke!

I’ve had enough of this rubbish and am appealing to your good nature - which I am sure is lurking behind this facade - to kindly stop this torture. Listen - Pakistan cricket - like the country- has many flaws. But we are passionate about the game and our country.

I am not being rude in any way to you and have said ‘please’ several times. Please change your attitude. You have good cricket knowledge - this is clear. Please use it wisely and not for the purpose of annoying people.

 

[Titan24]

Lol! Cricketing experts are comparing loss of a series at home after 8 years for Pak (Kindly look at the experience of that side) with new captain to Srl and so called world no 1 being beaten by no 5 ranked team playing with almost 10 players by an innings and 150 plus runs.

Anyways few home series for Pakistan are coming up I wont be surprised that for many people rankings won matter anymore like in 2016 when Pak was number 1.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Not interested in long essays or useless comparisons. India have won just 2 out of 28 tests in Australia, England, SA, and NZ. That’s a fact and no amount of subjective posts will change that.

 

[yasir]

I am talking about current/recent form. We were whitewashed on our last New Zealand tour. At the moment, Pakistan's only claim of fame is their better record in England over the last two tours. That's it.

While is definitely something to be proud, it doesn't make up for everything else.

I don’t think India’s record in AUS and SA is so much better than us.

India has won 5 test out 44 in last 70 years. We have won 3 out of 32. India has won 3 out of 20 in SA, and we have won 2 out of 12...

Look at the big picture, we both are far way from winning any kind of test series short or full in those two places. I am not sure India is in any position to brag about their record in those two places

In ENG Pakistan has dominated for long period of time and won full series (in ENG), shut them off in 5 test series and drew full series as long as last time. India has been not about of so any of this in last 86 years, there is significant in what we and they have achieved.

In NZ, Pakistan used to win, left and right every time, they were our bunny at their own home for 2 decades or so, if I remember correctly, India struggles to win in NZ as well...

Point is we fail to perform in AUS and SA, so is India, where as we have a lot more in ENG and NZ, where India struggles to show up!! - It’s not like India has conquered AUS and SA, they are still far from winning rest series in those places much like us.

 

[Robert]

Twenty-two years ago I watched India win at Lord’s under very similar pitch and atmosphere conditions.

Their batting line was very good in those days. They could play all types of bowling in all conditions. Vengsarkar got a century IIRC. They had an on-form Kapil Dev too.

 

[Chokli]

India since January 2011
In Eng - 11 Tests, 1 win, 9 losss, 1 draw
In Aus - 8 Tests, 0 win, 6 losses, 2 draw
In SA - 6 Tests, 1 win, 3 losses, 2 draws
In NZ - 2 Tests, 0 win, 1 loss, 1 draw
Overall - 27 Tests, 2 wins, 19 losses & 6 draws

easily the worst team overseas.

 

[Savage]

This is such a bizarre post.

Both India and Pakistan were whitewashed in their last tours to Australia. Drawn Tests are futile when you have not won one match.

India has played one more tour to SA (which Pakistan will equal later this year) than Pakistan so they have one more win.

Both Pakistan and India won their series in WI but India had one washed out Test and one drawn where West Indies were 388/6.

Now NZ. Funny how you don’t make mention of the fact that Pakistan drew in 2009, won in 2011 and lost after 32 years in 2016. However, India lost in 2003, won in 2009, and lost in 2014.

Zimbabwe is where India has had the clear better record but they haven’t played in thirteen years.

As far as England, we all know that one.

Just because you don't like it,doesn't mean it's a bizarre post.

Read it again and you should find(hopefully) that it is a really good post which gives the reason why Pakistan is ranked no 7 with 88 Points and India would still be ranked no 1 with 112 points even if we assume that they would be whitewashed 5-0 in England.Apparently many Pakistan fans here are saying Pakistan deserves to be ranked on the same level as India in Tests.

If you still find anything bizarre,then you should mention those lines which you didn't like in [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] post.

 

[Monsee]

These following two statements do shed a really embarassing light on the Numero Uno team:


'England completed their total and utter domination of India in the Lord's Test with a win in just 170.3 overs making it the third-shortest Test in the country over the last 100 years.'

and this as well: 'Blink and you miss it from India: second-shortest first innings at Lord's in 100 years'

 

[Kashmirilion]

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Mamoon bhai has taken the created by me to 2 pages SINGLE HANDEDLY, in few hours. Thank you.���� You should have played for India at Lord's, you would have even won the test single handedly.

He wouldn't have been able to contain the happiness and awe. The occasion would have got the better of him

 

[ManFan]

Just because you don't like it,doesn't mean it's a bizarre post.

Read it again and you should find(hopefully) that it is a really good post which gives the reason why Pakistan is ranked no 7 with 88 Points and India would still be ranked no 1 with 112 points even if we assume that they would be whitewashed 5-0 in England.Apparently many Pakistan fans here are saying Pakistan deserves to be ranked on the same level as India in Tests.

If you still find anything bizarre,then you should mention those lines which you didn't like in [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] post.

1). India is still the Number One team in Test rankings and Pakistan Number Seven.

2). I did point out to [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] the issues I had and they are in this thread for you to see.

 

[Itachi]

Not interested in long essays or useless comparisons. India have won just 2 out of 28 tests in Australia, England, SA, and NZ. That’s a fact and no amount of subjective posts will change that.

This. I agree. There could be one or two occasions where you can say it was unfair but 2 out of 28 is not excusable at any circumstances.

 

[MMHS]

Twenty-two years ago I watched India win at Lord’s under very similar pitch and atmosphere conditions.

Their batting line was very good in those days. They could play all types of bowling in all conditions. Vengsarkar got a century IIRC. They had an on-form Kapil Dev too.

Don't think they won in 1996 (Series was 1-0, with ENG winning at Birmingham), but was the better team in a draw. Two debutantes scored 136 (?) & 95 I believe.

 

[the Great Khan]

That was against arguably the greatest team ever and this against a unsettled team without their best player

our two best batters in that series? Hasan raza and Faisal iqbal..enough said!!
we had no chance..

but we beat a similar aussie side a few years before in 1994. Anyway that has nothing to do with this series..

the problem alot of fans have is the fact that these so called shooperishtaars are hyped to the rafters but if you look at things under the hood, there arent any cylinders..India need to ditch their reliance on the IPL for test matches and look to the ranji trophy..

Pakistans saving grace is that our players dont play the IPL. The cesspit of bookies and trash..

 

[Mirpur express]

Total phainty lol

 

[Mirpur express]

Pakistan will whitewash this English side in the next tour , wins in London & draws outside

 

[Mirpur express]

Overall India do well overseas especially in Australia & South Africa compared to us

 

[RamLakhan]

Of course sub continenters are weakest in sports.. maybe it’s genes or maybe it’s the lack of sporting culture but we are not meant to dominate sports. We can dominate outsourcing industry due to the sheer number of people we have.. That is about it we are mediocre at everything else

Probably you are not aware of Indian history & heritage... Let Indians be true Indians (eat the kind of food we were eating in the ancient days, live the way were living in the ancient days). After that we can compete in any field!

 

[Savage]

1). India is still the Number One team in Test rankings and Pakistan Number Seven.

No need to state the obvious.We all know the rankings.

2). I did point out to [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] the issues I had and they are in this thread for you to see.

No worries.

IMO the first line of your post was unnecessary.Nonetheless It's not that big of a deal.

Regarding the stats that you brought up,performance of 2011,2010,2009,2008.... is not relevant anymore when we are discussing present performance and it is also indicated by ICC ranking procedure.Unless We are talking about overseas performance historically or in this decade.

We shouldn't bring India's 8-0 whitewash in 2011 or series victory in NZ(2009) and ENG(2007) or Pakistan series win in NZ(2011).That was a very long time ago.Current Indian captain Kohli itself made his debut after 2011 England series and played alongside SRT,Sehwag,Gambhir,Dravid,VVS,Zaheer etc.

 

[Savage]

No need to state the obvious.We all know the rankings.



No worries.

IMO the first line of your post # 92 was unnecessary.Nonetheless It's not that big of a deal.

Regarding the stats that you brought up,performance of 2011,2010,2009,2008.... is not relevant anymore when we are discussing present performance and it is also indicated by ICC ranking procedure.Unless We are talking about overseas performance historically or in this decade.

We shouldn't bring India's 8-0 whitewash in 2011 or series victory in NZ(2009) and ENG(2007) or Pakistan series win in NZ(2011).That was a very long time ago.Current Indian captain Kohli itself made his debut after 2011 England series and played alongside SRT,Sehwag,Gambhir,Dravid,VVS,Zaheer etc.

Referring to post 92

 

[Savage]

Don't think they won in 1996 (Series was 1-0, with ENG winning at Birmingham), but was the better team in a draw. Two debutantes scored 136 (?) & 95 I believe.

I think he might be talking about 1986 series where India won.

 

[ManFan]

No need to state the obvious.We all know the rankings.



No worries.

IMO the first line of your post was unnecessary.Nonetheless It's not that big of a deal.

Regarding the stats that you brought up,performance of 2011,2010,2009,2008.... is not relevant anymore when we are discussing present performance and it is also indicated by ICC ranking procedure.Unless We are talking about overseas performance historically or in this decade.

We shouldn't bring India's 8-0 whitewash in 2011 or series victory in NZ(2009) and ENG(2007) or Pakistan series win in NZ(2011).That was a very long time ago.Current Indian captain Kohli itself made his debut after 2011 England series and played alongside SRT,Sehwag,Gambhir,Dravid,VVS,Zaheer etc.

I stated the obvious because no statistics can currently change that position so I do not want to make the wrong impression that I’m stating one team is better than the other currently.

I brought up those series because they were the most recent tours.

For example, Pakistan have had two tours to Australia in a gap of six years but they are the most recent ones they had. Still, it doesn’t change the fact that they lost 6-0. If you go back one tour, the record stands at 9-0.

On the other hand, India have had three tours to England in a gap of three and now four years. India have lost in England 4-1 in their last six matches. If you go back one tour, the record stands at 8-1-1. (Mind you, this is with two more Tests left so India can either improve or further descend).

The numbers don’t lie.

Pakistan have been a better overseas Test Team while India a better home Test Team.

In conclusion, both teams have noteworthy records and performances to be proud of.

 

[Hasan123]

This England team are average . India have the experience and should have done better . Very poor performance by them so far.

 

[ManFan]

I stated the obvious because no statistics can currently change that position so I do not want to make the wrong impression that I’m stating one team is better than the other currently.

I brought up those series because they were the most recent tours.

For example, Pakistan have had two tours to Australia in a gap of six years but they are the most recent ones they had. Still, it doesn’t change the fact that they lost 6-0. If you go back one tour, the record stands at 9-0.

On the other hand, India have had three tours to England in a gap of three and now four years. India have lost in England 4-1 in their last six matches. If you go back one tour, the record stands at 8-1-1. (Mind you, this is with two more Tests left so India can either improve or further descend).

The numbers don’t lie.

Pakistan have been a better overseas Test Team while India a better home Test Team.

In conclusion, both teams have noteworthy records and performances to be proud of.

Correction:

India have a further THREE and not TWO Tests remaining in this series.

 

[Savage]

I stated the obvious because no statistics can currently change that position so I do not want to make the wrong impression that I’m stating one team is better than the other currently.

I brought up those series because they were the most recent tours.

For example, Pakistan have had two tours to Australia in a gap of six years but they are the most recent ones they had. Still, it doesn’t change the fact that they lost 6-0. If you go back one tour, the record stands at 9-0.

On the other hand, India have had three tours to England in a gap of three and now four years. India have lost in England 4-1 in their last six matches. If you go back one tour, the record stands at 8-1-1. (Mind you, this is with two more Tests left so India can either improve or further descend).

The numbers don’t lie.

Pakistan have been a better overseas Test Team while India a better home Test Team.

In conclusion, both teams have noteworthy records and performances to be proud of.

Once again you are bringing series performance of 2011,2010,2009,2008.Those are not relevant anymore.

In post #84,You can find what is relevant and that is the reason why Pakistan is ranked no 7 with 88 points.Only thing that's not clearly mentioned is pakistan away series performance in England.So I'm going to do it

England:

Pakistan: 3-3 (2 test series).Pakistan played back to back series in 2016 and 2018
India: 5-1 (2 test series)

you really can't look beyond last 4 or 5 years and bring performances of 2000s -2011.

 

[ManFan]

Once again you are bringing series performance of 2011,2010,2009,2008.Those are not relevant anymore.

In post #84,You can find what is relevant and that is the reason why Pakistan is ranked no 7 with 88 points.Only thing that's not clearly mentioned is pakistan away series performance in England.So I'm going to do it

England:

Pakistan: 3-3 (2 test series).Pakistan played back to back series in 2016 and 2018
India: 5-1 (2 test series)

you really can't look beyond last 4 or 5 years and bring performances of 2000s -2011.

If you are comparing a team’s records than it should be a cumulative effort.

You cannot ignore series’ results just because they do not fall within a certain timeline.

That would be akin to stating something along the lines of Pakistan have lost one series since 2010 at home and so have India therefore they have been equally adequate, at HOME?

 

[Savage]

If you are comparing a team’s records than it should be a cumulative effort.

You cannot ignore series’ results just because they do not fall within a certain timeline.

That would be akin to stating something along the lines of Pakistan have lost one series since 2010 at home and so have India therefore they have been equally adequate, at HOME?

Once again you are not getting it.If we use your criteria then there shouldn't really be debate regarding India being best Test team in the world.South Africa or Australia would easily be ranked as best test side in the world(you decide the timeline).

 

[ManFan]

Once again you are not getting it.If we use your criteria then there shouldn't really be debate regarding India being best Test team in the world.South Africa or Australia would easily be ranked as best test side in the world(you decide the timeline).

Yes but the comparison is between India and Pakistan.

And since both teams rarely tour overseas and there are various factors (retirees, bowlers being banned, injuries, etc) that can affect the distinction of a team that IS and once WAS during the current timeline, previous tours are a great indicator of consistency.

 

[Savage]

Yes but the comparison is between India and Pakistan.

I think by now you should've realised how flawed is your criteria.

It doesn't matter whether the comparison is between India and Australia or between ENgland and Australia.If we use your criteria then the "EXACT" same criteria should be applicable to rest of the teams.

Once again if we still consider your criteria then Australia and SA would've never lost their no 1 ranking so easily.Pakistan would've never become NO 1 in Tests and Australia would've still been regarded as best team during 2009-2011 while India and SA were better in that period.