England have not just won, but have humiliated India, the "number 1" team

[ManFan]

I think by now you should've realised how flawed is your criteria.

It doesn't whether the comparison is between India and Australia or between ENgland and Australia.If we use your criteria then the "EXACT" same criteria should be applicable to rest of the teams.

Once again if we still consider your criteria then Australia and SA would've never lost their no 1 ranking so easily.Pakistan would've never become NO 1 in Tests and Australia would've still been regarded as best team during 2009-2011 while India and SA were better in that period.

So have the rest of the posters on this thread been comparing India to South Africa or Australia?

Or Pakistan?

 

[Savage]

So have the rest of the posters on this thread been comparing India to South Africa or Australia?

Or Pakistan?

Nah the point is that the criteria that you are applying should be applicable to rest of the teams as well.

For ex-Suppose You are considering India 8-0 whitewashes in England and Australia during 2011-12.And due to that you are calling Pakistan better than India overseas currently.Then that should also mean that rest of the team is also better than India overseas.

And if you extrapolate the bold part-You would also find that South Africa and Australia should easily be considered as better team overall due to simply much better performance and India pathetic overseas performance.

 

[ManFan]

Nah the point is that the criteria that you are applying should be applicable to rest of the teams as well.

For ex-Suppose You are considering India 8-0 whitewashes in England and Australia during 2011-12.And due to that you are calling Pakistan better than India overseas currently.Then that should also mean that rest of the team is also better than India overseas.

And if you extrapolate the bold part-You would also find that South Africa and Australia should easily be considered as better team overall due to simply much better performance and India pathetic overseas performance.

Which team are you mentioning in your example?

Also, I made the point of 8-1-1 and 9-0 to show that with three tours of each England and Australia respectively, both teams have had terrible performances.

But if you want to compare both teams during this decade than look at their overall overseas record.

India: 10-19-11

Pakistan: 15-18-4

 

[Savage]

But if you want to compare both teams during this decade than look at their overall overseas record.

India: 10-19-11

Pakistan: 15-18-4

Once again this record is completely irrelevant.Although it is still far better than you bringing India performance in NZ 2002.

If we are considering performance in this decade to prove that currently Pakistan is better than India away from home.Then we should also consider performance of all the other teams in that period.This is the actual point that I am making.

And you would find that there is only team which would be regarded as best Test team in the world and that team is South Africa due to simply far superior Overseas performance.And thus we wouldn't be having this debate anymore.

In other words-

If we are comparing the performance of India and Pakistan in this "decade" to prove that currently Pak>India overseas.Then we should also consider SA(along with rest of the other teams) overseas performance in the same exact period and you would find that "Currently" South africa is easily the best team in the world.Australia would be second best team currently.Thus Rankings(also has some flaws) which serves the purpose of indicating the recent performances of Teams would be completely meaningless.

 

[ManFan]

Once again this record is completely irrelevant.Although it is still far better than you bringing India performance in NZ 2002.

If we are considering performance in this decade to prove that currently Pakistan is better than India away from home.Then we should also consider performance of all the other teams in that period.This is the actual point that I am making.

And you would find that there is only team which would be regarded as best Test team in the world and that team is South Africa due to simply far superior Overseas performance.And thus we wouldn't be having this debate anymore.

In other words-

If we are comparing the performance of India and Pakistan in this "decade" to prove that currently Pak>India overseas.Then we should also consider SA(along with rest of the other teams) overseas performance in the same exact period and you would find that "Currently" South africa is easily the best team in the world.Australia would be second best team currently.Thus Rankings(also has some flaws) which serves the purpose of indicating the recent performances of Teams would be completely meaningless.

So to counter a direct comparison record of India and Pakistan overseas, you are in fact going to bring in South Africa’s records.

(Which is 10-9-11 in the same timeline by the way, below India, Pakistan, and Australia).

 

[Savage]

So to counter a direct comparison record of India and Pakistan overseas, you are in fact going to bring in South Africa’s records.

(Which is 10-9-11 in the same timeline by the way, below India, Pakistan, and Australia).

I don't the exact away record of SA record in that timeline.But it is simply WAY SUPERIOR TO rest of the teams.They won the away series in England and Australia 2012 whereas India lost 8-0 in same countries i 2011.Thus they would easily be called as best team in the world right now.

 

[ManFan]

I don't the exact away record of SA record in that timeline.But it is simply WAY SUPERIOR TO rest of the teams.They won the away series in England and Australia 2012 whereas India lost 8-0 in same countries i 2011.Thus they would easily be called as best team in the world right now.

I quoted the overall overseas record of SA since January 2011 which is available to see on a recent post by [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] titled, “Test teams away from home since January 2011- Pakistan and Australia level with the most wins”.

Australia and Pakistan are tied with fifteen victories despite the former playing five more matches. It also clearly shows SA behind the three nations of India, Pakistan, and Australia.

 

[Savage]

I quoted the overall overseas record of SA since January 2011 which is available to see on a recent post by [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] titled, “Test teams away from home since January 2011- Pakistan and Australia level with the most wins”.

Australia and Pakistan are tied with fifteen victories despite the former playing five more matches. It also clearly shows SA behind the three nations of India, Pakistan, and Australia.

It doesn't matter what the record suggests.They have simply been far better than the rest.They have lost only 3 series away from home in that period - 1 in India,1 in England and 1 in Sri Lanka recently.

If we rank teams on basis of performance in this decade,then SA would easily be ranked no 1 Without any doubt.

 

[Ab Fan]

I quoted the overall overseas record of SA since January 2011 which is available to see on a recent post by [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] titled, “Test teams away from home since January 2011- Pakistan and Australia level with the most wins”.

Australia and Pakistan are tied with fifteen victories despite the former playing five more matches. It also clearly shows SA behind the three nations of India, Pakistan, and Australia.

SA away performance since 2011:-

Drew a series in UAE 2014
Won a series in England
Won a series in Australia twice
Won a series in Sri Lanka
Won a series in New Zealand twice

If you consider 2010, since that is also the part of this decade, add:-

Drew a series in UAE 2010
Drew a series in India 2010

 

[ManFan]

It doesn't matter what the record suggests.They have simply been far better than the rest.They have lost only 3 series away from home in that period - 1 in India,1 in England and 1 in Sri Lanka recently.

If we rank teams on basis of performance in this decade,then SA would easily be ranked no 1 Without any doubt.

“It doesn’t matter what the record suggests” a.k.a. lets ignore statistics and data while resorting to perceived notions about team strength and performance.

What’s next?

Although India have beaten Pakistan 6-0 it doesn’t matter because Pakistan have beaten them in the most recent ICC Tournament?

)

 

[ManFan]

SA away performance since 2011:-

Drew a series in UAE 2014
Won a series in England
Won a series in Australia twice
Won a series in Sri Lanka
Won a series in New Zealand twice

If you consider 2010, since that is also the part of this decade, add:-

Drew a series in UAE 2010
Drew a series in India 2010

The record is from January 2011.

Not that it matters because they drew both series in 2010.

 

[Savage]

“It doesn’t matter what the record suggests” a.k.a. lets ignore statistics and data while resorting to perceived notions about team strength and performance.

What’s next?

Although India have beaten Pakistan 6-0 it doesn’t matter because Pakistan have beaten them in the most recent ICC Tournament?

)

Can you please bring the away stats of SA in this decade.

 

[ManFan]

Can you please bring the away stats of SA in this decade.

I have done it twice.

And quoted the source.

 

[Savage]

I have done it twice.

And quoted the source.

No Problem.

here is the stat.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...am=7;team=8;team=9;template=results;type=team

As you can see,it is simply way superior than the rest.And if you look beyond stats,you would find that they are country miles ahead of any other team if we consider overseas performance.

 

[Ab Fan]

The record is from January 2011.

Not that it matters because they drew both series in 2010.

Pakistan away wins are inflated by playing Ireland, Zimbabwe(twice) and WI (twice) away from home since 2011.

South Africa away wins against minnows feature only 1 win against Zimbabwe.

 

[Savage]

Pakistan away wins are inflated by playing Ireland, Zimbabwe(twice) and WI (twice) away from home since 2011.

South Africa away wins against minnows feature only 1 win against Zimbabwe.

At home,India and Australia are still ahead of SA though.Overall SA is easily the best in that timeline.

 

[ManFan]

No Problem.

here is the stat.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...am=7;team=8;team=9;template=results;type=team

As you can see,it is simply way superior than the rest.And if you look beyond stats,you would find that they are country miles ahead of any other team if we consider overseas performance.

That is the W/L ratio.

Not the overall victory-defeat-draw ratio.

 

[ManFan]

Pakistan away wins are inflated by playing Ireland, Zimbabwe(twice) and WI (twice) away from home since 2011.

South Africa away wins against minnows feature only 1 win against Zimbabwe.

And yet even if you take that into account, they have one more overseas win than SA.

 

[Savage]

That is the W/L ratio.

Not the overall victory-defeat-draw ratio.

Bro what are you trying to say?

Are you suggesting that SA is not the best team away from home in that timeline?

 

[Ab Fan]

And yet even if you take that into account, they have one more overseas win than SA.

Not too sure of that.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...am=7;team=8;team=9;template=results;type=team

That explains SA dominance clearly when you look at wins, losses and draws all of them.

 

[ManFan]

Bro what are you trying to say?

Are you suggesting that SA is not the best team away from home in that timeline?

Not “me”.

“The numbers, Mason”.

 

[Iddy]

Pakistan have historically been a much better Test team than India so this is a moot point. I am clearly referring to Pakistan's abysmal record in Australia from 1990s onwards. I have lost count of the number of consecutive matches we have lost in Australia. In the last two decades or so, we have easily been the worst touring team in Australia.

Why do you use "we" when referring to Pakistan?

 

[Savage]

Not “me”.

“The numbers, Mason”.

Actually "The numbers" are clearly indicating that SA is easily best in that timeline.And if you look beyond "The numbers" South Africa are country miles ahead of any other team in terms of away performance.

 

[Ab Fan]

Not too sure of that.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...am=7;team=8;team=9;template=results;type=team

That explains SA dominance clearly when you look at wins, losses and draws all of them.

[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION], and these numbers aren't even counting other teams matches vs Pakistan in UAE as away matches.

So, add:-
+1 to SA(In 2014 they won 1 match in UAE)

Total:- 10 wins for SA away now.

 

[ManFan]

Not too sure of that.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...am=7;team=8;team=9;template=results;type=team

That explains SA dominance clearly when you look at wins, losses and draws all of them.

Let’s take a closer look.

Pakistan has had

1.) A win in NZ (2011)
2). Two wins in SL (2015)
3). Three wins in BD (2015)
4.) Three wins in ENG (2016+2018)
5). A win in IRE

That’s nine off the top of my head yet you’re list has us at six.

 

[MMHS]

I think he might be talking about 1986 series where India won.

Yes, Vengsarkar scored his 3rd century at Lord's and it was a great innings. But, that's thirty two years back, not twenty two.

 

[James]

South Africa seems to be an excellent away team, but never quite as good at home - particularly against England and Australia. A strange quirk and it has been going on for years.

 

[Ab Fan]

Let’s take a closer look.

Pakistan has had

1.) A win in NZ (2011)
2). Two wins in SL (2015)
3). Three wins in BD (2015)
4.) Three wins in ENG (2016+2018)
5). A win in IRE

That’s nine off the top of my head yet you’re list has us at six.

3 wins in BD(2 wins came in 2011 & 1 in 2015) + A win in Ireland shouldn't be counted as they were minnows at that point of time. Even today, BD are same as WI are.

If SA would have played against these teams away, SA would have beaten them comprehensively as well, afterall they have beaten the likes of Australia twice and England (that too an England team of 2012) in their backyards.

So, excluding minnows(BD, WI, Zim, Ireland), total is:-

SA- 10
Pak- 6

SA's wins have come against England(3), Australia(3), New Zealand(2) ,SL(1), UAE(1).

Pakistan's 6 wins away have come against NZ(1), Eng(3), SL(2).

There is hardly a comparison between the two since 2011.

 

[ManFan]

3 wins in BD(2 wins came in 2011 & 1 in 2015) + A win in Ireland shouldn't be counted as they were minnows at that point of time. Even today, BD are same as WI are.

If SA would have played against these teams away, SA would have beaten them comprehensively as well, afterall they have beaten the likes of Australia twice and England (that too an England team of 2012) in their backyards.

So, excluding minnows(BD, WI, Zim, Ireland), total is:-

SA- 10
Pak- 6

SA's wins have come against England(3), Australia(3), New Zealand(2) ,SL(1), UAE(1).

Pakistan's 6 wins away have come against NZ(1), Eng(3), SL(2).

There is hardly a comparison between the two since 2011.

Yes.

I realized that when I noticed the filter for Teams in your link.

So South Africa have been better against non-minnows.

 

[ManFan]

Yes.

I realized that when I noticed the filter for Teams in your link.

So South Africa have been better against non-minnows.

They have had one more tour to NZ and two more to AUS during this period so it makes sense that PAK has more victories in SL while SA in NZ and AUS.

Regardless, Pakistan has more overseas victories from January 2011 onwards with both minnows and non-minnows taken into account.

 

[big_gamer007]

Probably you are not aware of Indian history & heritage... Let Indians be true Indians (eat the kind of food we were eating in the ancient days, live the way were living in the ancient days). After that we can compete in any field!

I am well aware not friend but we are talking about 2018 not 3000 years ago. Who cares how Indians were 3000 years ago(lot of myths as well).. Fact is today we can’t compete in sports with most of the world.

 

[big_gamer007]

It’s not genes. It is malnutrition. Majority suffer from stunted growth.

Compare an average Indian kid in India with an American or European kid. The difference is too much to ignore.

Yea but it seems now due to malnutrition over thousands of years the lack of physicality has come in indian genes.. Might take couple of generations to eat well and get back the proper structure..

 

[RamLakhan]

I am well aware not friend but we are talking about 2018 not 3000 years ago. Who cares how Indians were 3000 years ago(lot of myths as well).. Fact is today we can’t compete in sports with most of the world.

The treasure of knowledge and vedas is not a myth! And I agree we are not doing well with what we have!

 

[RamLakhan]

Yea but it seems now due to malnutrition over thousands of years the lack of physicality has come in indian genes.. Might take couple of generations to eat well and get back the proper structure..

For Sports (other than Body Building and Boxing probably) you don't need too much muscles (Indian tribes & warriors - kshatriyas were consuming meat anyhow) Especially for a game like cricket you actually don't need muscles, you just need athleticism & endurance+concentration in heat & cold! Indian tribes had perfect skills for that! What is there in cricket? (apart from technique, I guess DK & co know what's those techniques, but they just can't apply isn't it?) Indians are educated now (then, ever) I think you & the whole world agrees that! Add to that the old Indian tribal body (or even the current Indian tribes who are not disturbed with noodles, steroid milk, etc + if you are able to educate them) you will get the desired results! All you need is throwing capability at good speed (educating that to convert into bowling) After that its all skills (we have a lot of skilled players in cricket in India, its just about the combination, the full playing XI). I still remember how Australians were praising Indian batting (Laxman, Dravid, Sachin, Sehwag) in that golden period, they told that they bat like doing meditation!

So its all there, we need to just get everything in the right place! Throw out DK (I guess he is an upper caste guy, please note that I am not bringing any casteism here if you understood my actual intent! Today caste means getting more benefits in the society & becoming more powerful politically) there could be a proper athletic ancient Tamil tribe there who could do wonders (the genes could be similar to the great WI players of 70s and better than artificial steroid-based modern food Australians!)

I don't think we need to go that deep to get the perfect team (I think it is out of scope here) If we get few things right like selection, coaching, captaincy, application, etc, then we will do reasonably well...

 

[Savage]

[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION]

That SA point is just one of the many instances which exposes the flaw in your criteria.But first you need to realize that Pakistan is nowhere near South Africa in terms of away performance in this decade.You are mentioning number of away win for Pakistan but completely ignoring

1 Number of overseas losses for Pakistan.Special Mention - Zimbabwe loss.
2 No of away wins against the Weaker sides for Pakistan as compared to South Africa.
3 Number of away series win for South Africa(particularly against top ranked sides) as compared to Pakistan.
4 Number of away series losses for Pakistan as compared to South Africa

Now let me use Similar logic of yours in ODI format and call no 2 ranked India Best team in this format right now because India have won the away series in England 2014 whereas England have won only 3 matches in India since 01 Jan 2011.If I prove that ATM India > England then it would automatically mean that Australia and South Africa are also much better ODI team than England.So Currently no 1 ranked England is not even amongst the top 3 best ODI sides in the world.Do you realize how absurd it sounds?

After thrashing India recently,England is easily the best ODI side in the world right now and deserve no 1 ranking.

And if you want to justify the no 1 rank of England,it would be difficult to find a better stat presentation than what you can see in post #84.

 

[Amir]

[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION]

That SA point is just one of the many instances which exposes the flaw in your criteria.But first you need to realize that Pakistan is nowhere near South Africa in terms of away performance in this decade.You are mentioning number of away win for Pakistan but completely ignoring

1 Number of overseas losses for Pakistan.Special Mention - Zimbabwe loss.
2 No of away wins against the Weaker sides for Pakistan as compared to South Africa.
3 Number of away series win for South Africa(particularly against top ranked sides) as compared to Pakistan.
4 Number of away series losses for Pakistan as compared to South Africa

Now let me use Similar logic of yours in ODI format and call no 2 ranked India Best team in this format right now because India have won the away series in England 2014 whereas England have won only 3 matches in India since 01 Jan 2011.If I prove that ATM India > England then it would automatically mean that Australia and South Africa are also much better ODI team than England.So Currently no 1 ranked England is not even amongst the top 3 best ODI sides in the world.Do you realize how absurd it sounds?

After thrashing India recently,England is easily the best ODI side in the world right now and deserve no 1 ranking.

And if you want to justify the no 1 rank of England,it would be difficult to find a better stat presentation than what you can see in post #84.

Indian's carrying out such detailed analysis just to defend such a pathetic performance. Next, you will study the cloud patterns between the two series'.

 

[Savage]

Indian's carrying out such detailed analysis just to defend such a pathetic performance. Next, you will study the cloud patterns between the two series'.

do you even know what's going on here?

I never talked about India's recent loss in this thread and I certainly didn't defend their performance anywhere in PP.

Please try to make some sense before you post

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Let's see what India comes up with for the next test

 

[big_gamer007]

For Sports (other than Body Building and Boxing probably) you don't need too much muscles (Indian tribes & warriors - kshatriyas were consuming meat anyhow) Especially for a game like cricket you actually don't need muscles, you just need athleticism & endurance+concentration in heat & cold! Indian tribes had perfect skills for that! What is there in cricket? (apart from technique, I guess DK & co know what's those techniques, but they just can't apply isn't it?) Indians are educated now (then, ever) I think you & the whole world agrees that! Add to that the old Indian tribal body (or even the current Indian tribes who are not disturbed with noodles, steroid milk, etc + if you are able to educate them) you will get the desired results! All you need is throwing capability at good speed (educating that to convert into bowling) After that its all skills (we have a lot of skilled players in cricket in India, its just about the combination, the full playing XI). I still remember how Australians were praising Indian batting (Laxman, Dravid, Sachin, Sehwag) in that golden period, they told that they bat like doing meditation!

So its all there, we need to just get everything in the right place! Throw out DK (I guess he is an upper caste guy, please note that I am not bringing any casteism here if you understood my actual intent! Today caste means getting more benefits in the society & becoming more powerful politically) there could be a proper athletic ancient Tamil tribe there who could do wonders (the genes could be similar to the great WI players of 70s and better than artificial steroid-based modern food Australians!)

I don't think we need to go that deep to get the perfect team (I think it is out of scope here) If we get few things right like selection, coaching, captaincy, application, etc, then we will do reasonably well...

Well I don't know the reason but Indians are generally physically and athletically lacking. Its a lot to do with culture as well where sports is given a backseat.

All you said in your post was "We Could", Before independence we used to dominate Hockey so I guess we can still compete at top level in sports. Probably need a lot of things to change to achieve that in today's environment.

 

[RamLakhan]

Well I don't know the reason but Indians are generally physically and athletically lacking. Its a lot to do with culture as well where sports is given a backseat.

All you said in your post was "We Could", Before independence we used to dominate Hockey so I guess we can still compete at top level in sports. Probably need a lot of things to change to achieve that in today's environment.

For the moment we are dominating a game at its creator's home, so cheers

Whenever there comes a case of "strength", think about Lion vs. Elephant! Elephant has its own style of strength! Just that it should not sleep... Lions can also be lazy!

 

[the_outsider]

Time to close this thread down I suppose.

 

[RamLakhan]

Well I don't know the reason but Indians are generally physically and athletically lacking. Its a lot to do with culture as well where sports is given a backseat.

All you said in your post was "We Could", Before independence we used to dominate Hockey so I guess we can still compete at top level in sports. Probably need a lot of things to change to achieve that in today's environment.

Exactly right! How many in our homes promote sports or encourage their children to take up sports? It is only after someone (1 out of 10) has broke all the barriers & took a courageous route to bypass the limits! What about the remain 9? I am sure at least 2 out of those 9 could be on par or better than that 1 courageous person (not the mistake of this guy! He is brave and highly appreciated! But the other 2 are unlucky & can't be criticized for not being brave! Everyone has their own issue, priority and constraint which should be respected & accepted!) If you get all these 3 guys to compete, then it lifts the talent-pool like anything (for e.g., Hardik Pandya would have got that competition for his spot! Which meant that either someone else would have surpassed him by now or Pandya himself would have achieved yesterday's feat long back probably resulting in South African series victory! He would not have waited till his place in the team is questioned and remained lazy feeling that his place is secured! It just pushes that much, and that's critical! Similarly somebody else better/equivalent would have bowled in the first two matches in place of Bumrah/replaced U.Yadav!)

So its not the case of going to the extreme of "gene"/"culture" level and criticizing! We should respect our country and its history (likewise every country has pros/cons, glory, weaknesses) Our country mastered in several sports arts like Marshal, Archery, etc. Even today kalaripayattu art is alive! There are just too many issues messing up things!

 

[BD-fan]

Disgrace this, for a #1 team. No fight whatsoever.

It has gone from bad to worse in the second test.

Ashwin is the only fighter in this match. Even rain couldn't save us. And all it took is just 82 overs for ENGLAND to bowl out us twice.

Are you changing your mind? Is it still a disgrace? Sometimes the chips don't fall right. Now the table has been turned. Be in the middle.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Are you changing your mind? Is it still a disgrace? Sometimes the chips don't fall right. Now the table has been turned. Be in the middle.

What? Why should I change my mind for the thing which happened? England did humiliate us and, I said what has happened.

Get a life bro. India is #1 team and they'll be atleast for a year or two. We were humiliated in the 2nd test, and that's what has been mentioned in my thread. Never did I say India is a bad team.

And I am happy that we are humiliating English now.

 

[Mamoon]

India have outclassed England in this series so far and should have been 2-1 up after this Test.

They won more sessions in the first Test in spite of missing their two frontline bowlers, and England were very lucky to bat in favorable conditions at Lord’s.

However, order has been restored in this Test.

 

[BD-fan]

What? Why should I change my mind for the thing which happened? England did humiliate us and, I said what has happened.

Get a life bro. India is #1 team and they'll be atleast for a year or two. We were humiliated in the 2nd test, and that's what has been mentioned in my thread. Never did I say India is a bad team.

And I am happy that we are humiliating English now.

Easy. Let the series end before jumping in to conclusion. That is all I am saying. If both team humiliates each other then there is no humiliation.

Home team fighting hard, #1 team showing their metal overseas. Good fought series. No humiliation.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Easy. Let the series end before jumping in to conclusion. That is all I am saying. If both team humiliates each other then there is no humiliation.

Home team fighting hard, #1 team showing their metal overseas. Good fought series. No humiliation.

Only if you show me where I've "concluded".

Kindly, understand the context before commenting. Its just like someone quoting in U Akmal and Kohli thread and saying look, you've said Akmal is better, whereas Kohli is a legend now.

I didn't say in this thread anything about ODIs, neither about first test as we were competitive. Whereas in the "second test" we were humiliated and, I was talking about that particular match.

I am not a typical biased fan to support/ be against a particular team irrespective of how bad/ good they perform.

Whenever my team does well, I'll be the one to praise and, when they get outplayed in all departments, being a fan, I'll be the first one to criticize (positively).

I already predicted in May that India will win 4-1 or atleast 3-2.


Coming to the point both teams humiliating each other, being a Indian fan I don't care how bad England performs, I want my team, especially after being #1 to win or atleast be competitive. And, I am happy now that India is winning.

Yes, I could create a thread stating India have not just won but humiliated England, but there's a thread already on that.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

A nobody like Curran and, a Pseudo All rounder like Ali bhai.

 

[Hasan123]

India should be disappointed with this series.

 

[bujhee kom]

The 3rd Test was India's flash in the pan. Either side of it they have been gaped.

 

[bujhee kom]

India have outclassed England in this series so far and should have been 2-1 up after this Test.

They won more sessions in the first Test in spite of missing their two frontline bowlers, and England were very lucky to bat in favorable conditions at Lord’s.

However, order has been restored in this Test.

3-1 down but they have outclassed England. Bhegairati ni khad or ni yeh!

 

[James]

The top order gave it their best shot, but this has been awful from India at the end. Just meekly slogging themselves out. Ashwin is a good batter, if they had taken this run chase seriously then it might have been doable even after Kohli’s wicket.

 

[Taaya]

India have outclassed England in this series so far and should have been 2-1 up after this Test.

They won more sessions in the first Test in spite of missing their two frontline bowlers, and England were very lucky to bat in favorable conditions at Lord’s.

However, order has been restored in this Test.

Does anybody still take this guy seriously? Each and every post is cringe-worthy. No shame at all.

 

[James]

India have outclassed England in this series so far and should have been 2-1 up after this Test.

They won more sessions in the first Test in spite of missing their two frontline bowlers, and England were very lucky to bat in favorable conditions at Lord’s.

However, order has been restored in this Test.

And now it’s 3-1.

To England

 

[amax]

India has fought really well in sessions , they just couldnt capitalize

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Great teams have killer instincts. India lacked it in this series. Still good fight but England deserved winners.

Kohli and fast bowlers should be proud. Rest just didn't show up. Can't be no 1 with 4 or 5 good players.

 

[UP]

Maza aaya

 

[Napa]

Disgrace this, for a #1 team. No fight whatsoever.

Chill. Humiliation is scoring 400+ and then losing the game by an innings on the way to a 4-0 rout.

 

[srh]

And now it’s 3-1.

To England

He probably thinks its 3-1 to India Give him some time to get back to reality

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Chill. Humiliation is scoring 400+ and then losing the game by an innings on the way to a 4-0 rout.

I have high expectations from my #1 team. Your expectations can vary tho.

 

[the_outsider]

India has underperformed for sure.

But only a biased individual would say that India hasn't been very competitive in every match except Lord's.

Think of the last time India had back to back competitive series in SENA - that was all the way back in the 70s.

England played better and deserve to be 3-1 up for sure.

But this is among the top 3 most competitive away test tours I've seen from any team in the last 5 years in foreign conditions.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

India has underperformed for sure.

But only a biased individual would say that India hasn't been very competitive in every match except Lord's.

Think of the last time India had back to back competitive series in SENA - that was all the way back in the 70s.

England played better and deserve to be 3-1 up for sure.

But this is among the top 3 most competitive away test tours I've seen from any team in the last 5 years in foreign conditions.

Well we have 2?

SL won in 2014 so definitively not top 3.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

India has underperformed for sure.

But only a biased individual would say that India hasn't been very competitive in every match except Lord's.

Think of the last time India had back to back competitive series in SENA - that was all the way back in the 70s.

England played better and deserve to be 3-1 up for sure.

But this is among the top 3 most competitive away test tours I've seen from any team in the last 5 years in foreign conditions.

If you lose, you lose. Only way this series will be competitive if India wins the 5th match. Nobody will remember how close the games were after 5 years. Only results matter for reference.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

India lost but they can hold their heads up high. Apart from Lords, where they got unplayable conditions, India have been competitive throughout.

However, this has been massively disappointing from a team of their caliber. Surprisingly, India's famed batting technique has been the most notable absentee. Can't help but say that T20 is destroying batmen's technique.

Hope the PSL doesn't have the same impact on our players. We might have more limited batsman, but they have the ability to grind thought even when they don't look pretty. That's the total opposite of India' batsman who look great even when they get out, but don't achieve much in testing conditions.

 

[the_outsider]

Well we have 2?

SL won in 2014 so definitively not top 3.

I don't consider the 1-1 in 2018 to be in the top 3. Because it's impossible to say how good a team is in a 2 test series - home or away.

For me the list is:

1. SL in Eng in 2014
2. Pak in Eng in 2016
3. Ind in Eng 2018 tied with Aus in India 2017

If India makes it 2-3, this series will be in the top 3.
But if it's 1-4 then Aus pips India for the 3rd spot.

 

[the_game]

India have outclassed England in this series so far and should have been 2-1 up after this Test.

They won more sessions in the first Test in spite of missing their two frontline bowlers, and England were very lucky to bat in favorable conditions at Lord’s.

However, order has been restored in this Test.

Doctor sahab, go check the scoreline of the series.

I guess for you, moral victories only magically appear when India are playing and not Pakistan. Go mourn a little and stop making a fool out of yourself on the forum.

 

[the_outsider]

If you lose, you lose. Only way this series will be competitive if India wins the 5th match. Nobody will remember how close the games were after 5 years. Only results matter for reference.

That may be your way of thinking but that is not how many others think.

If all that matters is the final scoreline then why even bother watching cricket? Just get the news from tomorrow's paper.

We watch cricket for the competition. And this has certainly been a competitive test series.

 

[desirous of desire]

India have outclassed England in this series so far and should have been 2-1 up after this Test.

They won more sessions in the first Test in spite of missing their two frontline bowlers, and England were very lucky to bat in favorable conditions at Lord’s.

However, order has been restored in this Test.

Does that mean India is mentally very timid, inconsistent but a technically talented team who loses the tests in few sessions despite dominating in the rest of the match? Do the players have concentration issues or they are just not good enough as an over all package( a combination of mental toughness, technique , application, concentration,hard work etc...) ?

 

[Mute Witness]

I don't consider the 1-1 in 2018 to be in the top 3. Because it's impossible to say how good a team is in a 2 test series - home or away.

For me the list is:

1. SL in Eng in 2014
2. Pak in Eng in 2016
3. Ind in Eng 2018 tied with Aus in India 2017

If India makes it 2-3, this series will be in the top 3.
But if it's 1-4 then Aus pips India for the 3rd spot.

Wasn't Sri Lanka's 2014 tour a 2 test series too? Anyway there have been other really good series over the last few years too. New Zealand drawing a three match series in the UAE 1-1. SA beating Australia in Australia. Pakistan vs West Indies, irrespective of the opposition went down to the last six balls of the series. England in SA was pretty competitive too.
Nevertheless this has been a thoroughly enjoyable series with quality cricket on display. One can only wonder what would have happened if india's team management had actually decided to prepare properly like Sri Lanka and Pakistan do.

 

[James]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and his ATG levels of awful post aside, this has been an extremely exciting and competitive series and will ensure another long English summer of strong ticket sales next year.

 

[the_outsider]

Wasn't Sri Lanka's 2014 tour a 2 test series too? Anyway there have been other really good series over the last few years too. New Zealand drawing a three match series in the UAE 1-1. SA beating Australia in Australia. Pakistan vs West Indies, irrespective of the opposition went down to the last six balls of the series. England in SA was pretty competitive too.
Nevertheless this has been a thoroughly enjoyable series with quality cricket on display. One can only wonder what would have happened if india's team management had actually decided to prepare properly like Sri Lanka and Pakistan do.

Yes there have been others like you mentioned. I didn't include tours like SA's tour to AUS 2016, etc because I am only looking at foreign conditions - those are the really challenging tours.

I also included SL's win in Eng in 2014 because it was their first ever series win in England and it ended 1-0. But mostly because it was the first series win for SL and that's a huge moment for any team.

If a 2 test series ends 1-1 there is no way to tell which team was the better team. But with a 1-0 scorecard one can still make that distinction.

 

[Usman Chadda]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and his ATG levels of awful post aside, this has been an extremely exciting and competitive series and will ensure another long English summer of strong ticket sales next year.

Credit goes to England’s top order aswell for making this a competitive series. They have been woeful all four tests so far, while they were very good in 2014.

 

[the_outsider]

Credit goes to England’s top order aswell for making this a competitive series. They have been woeful all four tests so far, while they were very good in 2014.

Or maybe India just bowled really well?

Didn't this same Alastair Cook get a 70 and a 46 against Pakistan recently? In just 3 innings he scored 117 runs.

How come he has only managed 109 in 7 in innings against India?

Joe Root averaged 40 against you guys. How come he is averaging 27 now?

Buttler averaged 63 against Pak and is now averaging 37. Why is that?



Lol! Man, you are ready to do anything as long as you don't have to give credit to India, isn't it?

 

[Napa]

Chill. Humiliation is scoring <b>400 or more and then losing the game by an innings</b> on the way to a 4-0 rout.

Two times in a row!!!

 

[James]

Or maybe India just bowled really well?

Didn't this same Alastair Cook get a 70 and a 46 against Pakistan recently? In just 3 innings he scored 117 runs.

How come he has only managed 109 in 7 in innings against India?

Joe Root averaged 40 against you guys. How come he is averaging 27 now?

Buttler averaged 63 against Pak and is now averaging 37. Why is that?



Lol! Man, you are ready to do anything as long as you don't have to give credit to India, isn't it?

Bit of a mixture in my opinion, the top order for England has been appalling but India’s opening bowlers have been superb at the same time.

 

[Stewie]

You might want to call it a competitive series but I always felt apart from the third test India always looked under the gun the whole series. You could almost sense then losing or buckling during the critical sessions.

 

[Slim]

I would say the number 1 tag is a total sham. A number one team doesnt stays at back foot and under the cross hairs the whole series. Absolutely humiliated and destroyed. Team Indiyaaa got exposed to be highly dependent on Kohli and KL better thank Kohli Rahul got exposed as well as the Indian Akmal.

 

[Slim]

Or maybe India just bowled really well?

Didn't this same Alastair Cook get a 70 and a 46 against Pakistan recently? In just 3 innings he scored 117 runs.

How come he has only managed 109 in 7 in innings against India?

Joe Root averaged 40 against you guys. How come he is averaging 27 now?

Buttler averaged 63 against Pak and is now averaging 37. Why is that?



Lol! Man, you are ready to do anything as long as you don't have to give credit to India, isn't it? &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

Moral victories - India's best at it.

 

[Slim]

India have outclassed England in this series so far and should have been 2-1 up after this Test.

They won more sessions in the first Test in spite of missing their two frontline bowlers, and England were very lucky to bat in favorable conditions at Lord’s.

However, order has been restored in this Test.

Yet you claim Pakistan and England are your favorite teams when time and time again you have proven that its India and then England.

Look, i am not going to call you an Indian or question your nationality. You are free to support whichever team you want but at least be honest about which teams you actually support. Your key board warriorism for India and then feigning ignorance over being their fan is embarrassing.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Or maybe India just bowled really well?

Didn't this same Alastair Cook get a 70 and a 46 against Pakistan recently? In just 3 innings he scored 117 runs.

How come he has only managed 109 in 7 in innings against India?

Joe Root averaged 40 against you guys. How come he is averaging 27 now?

Buttler averaged 63 against Pak and is now averaging 37. Why is that?



Lol! Man, you are ready to do anything as long as you don't have to give credit to India, isn't it?

England’s batting lost them a test against an inexperienced Pakistan team. They have been woeful all summer. Where have I said India didn’t bowl well?