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England v Pakistan | 3rd Test | Birmingham | Aug 3-7, 2016 | Pre-Match Discussion

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Square Drive said:
Why would you drop Wahab ahead of Rahat, though?
Click to expand...

It's such a big dilemma. Rahat offers swing both ways with the new ball. With the old ball he's hopeless. Wahab offers something with the old ball and is hopeless with the new ball. Both bowl 1 beauty per every 30 rank bad deliveries. Who should you drop to get Imran khan in who I dont think offers much with either new or old ball other than some seam movement but will bowl you around 9/10 on the money deliveries.

I guarantee you, Misbah is just sitting there with no idea in what to do. In England's case Woakes is moving it both ways with the new and old ball and hitting the good areas whereas the other england reserve bowlers were doing neither, so it was a simple decision to get him in.

decisions, decisions, decisions!
 
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We will bounce back boys! Sami Aslam in for Shan Masood and Imran Khan in for Rahat Ali
 
my gut says we should just keep Rahat because he's more likely to take wickets than wahab, but I'm not to sure on Imran Khan's credentials with the old ball and bowling first change.
 
Azrim_91 said:
It's such a big dilemma. Rahat offers swing both ways with the new ball. With the old ball he's hopeless. Wahab offers something with the old ball and is hopeless with the new ball. Both bowl 1 beauty per every 30 rank bad deliveries. Who should you drop to get Imran khan in who I dont think offers much with either new or old ball other than some seam movement but will bowl you around 9/10 on the money deliveries.

I guarantee you, Misbah is just sitting there with no idea in what to do. In England's case Woakes is moving it both ways with the new and old ball and hitting the good areas whereas the other england reserve bowlers were doing neither, so it was a simple decision to get him in.

decisions, decisions, decisions!
Click to expand...

Then it comes down to attitude and batting skills, where Wahab comfortably trumps Rahat in both departments.
 
Square Drive said:
Then it comes down to attitude and batting skills, where Wahab comfortably trumps Rahat in both departments.
Click to expand...

Can someone tell me when Imran Khan last played and why he's not in the starting lineup? did Amir replace him? I.e. was it a matter off who performed the worst out of Imran, Wahab and Rahat in their last series?

There has to be a reason why he's not playing.

PS: we can discuss all we want, I think the only change we're going to get is Masood OUT, even that I wouldnt be surprised if they kept the same XI.
 
Azrim_91 said:
Can someone tell me when Imran Khan last played and why he's not in the starting lineup? did Amir replace him? I.e. was it a matter off who performed the worst out of Imran, Wahab and Rahat in their last series?

There has to be a reason why he's not playing.

PS: we can discuss all we want, I think the only change we're going to get is Masood OUT, even that I wouldnt be surprised if they kept the same XI.
Click to expand...

I too was expecting him to start in the 1st Test, but I think his poor performance vs Sussex in the warmup along with Rahat being relatively more experienced and more 'skilled' caused the management to go for him over Imran.
 
Azrim_91 said:
It's such a big dilemma. Rahat offers swing both ways with the new ball. With the old ball he's hopeless. Wahab offers something with the old ball and is hopeless with the new ball. Both bowl 1 beauty per every 30 rank bad deliveries. Who should you drop to get Imran khan in who I dont think offers much with either new or old ball other than some seam movement but will bowl you around 9/10 on the money deliveries.

decisions, decisions, decisions!
Click to expand...
Where was this swing in this match because i didn't see it.

Imran Khans stats are much better then all the bowlers except Amir. Avg of 28 and sr 52 playing all his matches in sub content. He gives you control and does enough with the new ball to get you wickets upfront. Also when it reverses he's a much better bowler then Wahab because he has brilliant control as you can see by the yorkers he bowls.

Its strange how IK went from being Misbah main strike bowler in UAE for the past 2 years to not even getting in the team on English conditions. Surely he would be even more of a threat on these pitches then he is in UAE
 
kingusama92 said:
Fair point. Depends on how much they trust Imran with the new ball.

In my eyes, he should be in for one of them.
Click to expand...

Strange how they trusted IK (usually in a two man pace attack) in UAE pitches for the last 2 years but thought he wasn't good enough on these english flat tracks we got in the 2 tests so far.
 
Azrim_91 said:
Can someone tell me when Imran Khan last played and why he's not in the starting lineup? did Amir replace him? I.e. was it a matter off who performed the worst out of Imran, Wahab and Rahat in their last series?

There has to be a reason why he's not playing.

PS: we can discuss all we want, I think the only change we're going to get is Masood OUT, even that I wouldnt be surprised if they kept the same XI.
Click to expand...

I think the reason that Imran Khan isn't playing is because he doesn't swing the ball, not much anyway.

Rahat swings the ball and it's imperative that we make breakthroughs with the new ball.

Wahab offers pace and bounce.

The problem is that neither of the two above have been able to maintain a consistent line and length. Knowing Misbah, this will be irking him. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the two make way for Imran Khan. Even if he doesn't provide jaffas, he will build pressure from an end, meaning the others can bowl in a more attacking manner.
 
Abdullah719 said:
He bowls at roughly the same pace Rahat operates at. At least he won't spray the ball around.
Click to expand...

Not saying the guy won't be successful. He needs to be if Pakistan are going to win. Hopefully he'll have some helpful bowling conditions to work with.
 
I think we should go with 4 fast bowlers and a specialist spinner. Wahab should bat at number 6. He can score runs if he plays positively.

Shan and Hafeez out, Imran and Sami in.
 
Babar
Sami
Shafiq
Rizwan
Misbu
Abdullah
Sarfraz
Yasir
Hasan
Amir
Rahat
 
No team can win with a top order this inconsistent.

Hafeez and Masood are useless.

Not to mention we need another bowling option.
 
Why no one mentions pathetic Sarfaraz can't keep or bat.
Sarfaraz out Riz in
Shan out Sami in
Azhar out Ifti in
 
Shan out Sami in.
Wahab out Imran Khan in.
Should be playing bench batsman and 4 pace bowlers in the warm up.
Yasir should get a rest.
 
Based on the squad selected we will have to try the following combination for the next test

1) Hafeez
2) Azhar Ali
3) Asad Shafiq
4) Misbah ul Haq
5) Younis Khan
6) Iftikhar
7) Sarfaraz
8) Yasir Shah
9) Mohd Amir
10) Rahat or Wahab
11) Imran Khan

This combination will give you 5 bowling options and 6-7 batsman. This is the best 11 we can play now.
 
Salman CricBio said:
Wahab Riaz should not be dropped, anyway! He creates pressure with his pace. I would drop Rahat, instead, who bowls a bad bowl on the very next bowl after taking the wicket.
Click to expand...

I've not dropped him in the 'ideal replacements section' however it seems inevitable that he'll be dropped
 
Who would you drop for the 3rd Test, and who'd you bring in?

...

I think it's about time now Masood is dropped and Rahat/Wahab are gone too.

I think not having a right-arm spinner/pacer really has dented our bowling strategy and someone has to go, and my money would be on Rahat.

The only reason I think Hafeez will stay is because judging by Arthur's comments about him, he'll likely be the front-runner for the opening spot, especially if he passes his bowling action test.

You can play Sami Aslam, but it'll be his first Test in conditions that are alien to him. Then you have Babar Azam or someone from the Pak A squad who could also join.

The final idea would be to open with Azhar Ali/Hafeez and bring in Babar in the middle order...
 
If the wicket is typical Edgbaston wicket than i will bring in Jaahid Ali for Shan.

If the wicket is like Lords or Old Trafford than I will bring in Sharjeel Khan and would give him license to play his natural game without being over agressive or over hyper. Because He can than disrupt line and length of Anderson & Woakes like Sarfraz did succeed in disturbing line, length & plot of Chris Woakes for 2-3 overs. Otherwise they are so accurate, miserly that they land ball after after in same spots and ask too many questions with that Swing and kick.


But on a Typical Edgbaston wicket where Broad & Anderson have their best bowling Averages & Strike Rates Jaahid Ali is the Man to go too ahead of Sami Aslam who is in squad.


Rahat needs to be shown the door bringing in Control of Imran Khan. If Wahab recovers fuly from Injury than too i will have a 50 % inclination only to select him on Edgbaston surface and We must bring Hasan Ali whose natural length is Good length or fuller length and He swings it away from right handers.


Pakistan can also drop Azhar Ali and bring in Amad Butt with Asad going at number 3, younis 4, Misbah 5, Sarfraz 6, Amad 7, Yasir 8, Amir 9, Hasan 10, Imran 11.


We play Test Series in England after 6 years so we should not shy away from wholesale changes to the squad. I hope Mickey Arthur dominates.


1. Jaahid/Sharjeel

2. Hafeez

3. Asad

4. Younis

5. Misbah

6. Sarfraz

7. Amad

8. Yasir

9. Amir

10. Hasan/Wahab

11. Imran



Or



1. Jaahid/Sharjeel

2. Hafeez

3. Azhar

4. Younis

5. Misbah

6. Asad

7. Sarfraz

8. Yasir

9. Amir

10. Hasan/Wahab

11. Imran.



Note : I hope I am proved wrong but Iftikhar Ahmed as an Allrounder which he isn't won't work. Neither this is UAE. Especially with the Ball and we need a fifth bowling Option which can take 1-3 wickets and provide control aswell.
 
I would replace Shan Masood and Azhar Ali and Rahat Ali with Jaahid Ali, Babar Azam and Hasan Ali.
 
Azrim_91 said:
my gut says we should just keep Rahat because he's more likely to take wickets than wahab, but I'm not to sure on Imran Khan's credentials with the old ball and bowling first change.
Click to expand...

What if i told you IK has the better bowling avg of 28.3 and sr of 52 better then Wahab, Rahat and Sohail Khan playing all his tests in sub content.

He always gets wickets with the new ball because he is an out and out seam bowler, but when the ball gets old he gives you a solid performance by putting 9 out of 10 balls on the money which gives you so much control for Yasir and Amir to attack on the other hand.
Also and most importantly IK becomes absolutely lethal when the ball reverses and even a better reverse bowler then Wahab because he has control. you can see the yorkers he balls.

I think its a no brainer you play IK on english pitches and he should have been the second choice fast bowler after Amir from the first test. Then you choose between Rahat and Wahab as the third seamer depending on conditions.

A bowling attack of Amir to get the booming swing, Imran Khan to exploit then new ball with seam movement and then to keep things tight by giving Misbah control, Wahab to come in to attack and to knock over the tail and Yasir makes a lot more of a complete bowling attack rather then having 3 left arm seamers all bowling same lengths, same angles and speeds making it a 3 day net session for the opposition batsman.
 
they are not going to bring in A team players who beat a sub standard SL team and got pasted by the Lions. They'll go with the squad they have. Theres no point in having a squad if youre going to go outside of it. What they could have done is drafted the bench players into the A team for some practice, I suppose. But they didnt.

I get the impression Azher doesnt want to open, and given some here have been advocating looking at 2 games for the A team as some indication of bradman type strength, its probably worth remembering that azhar ali hit 101* and 145 in his warm up matches. ie two games/four innings against a weak team means nothing at all.

the problem is the last couple of years of crap selections by haroon. but given that cant be changed now, they will go with:

1. hafeez
2. son of a board member
3. azhar
4. saturday night fever
5. the king
6. 'technique' (whatever that means) when it doesnt matter
7. sarfraz
8. yasir
9. wahab
10. amir
11. imran
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sharjeel isn't good enough for Tests at this moment in time.

I wouldn't include him at all, even if the pitch is low and slow.
 
Azrim_91 said:
Can someone tell me when Imran Khan last played and why he's not in the starting lineup? did Amir replace him? I.e. was it a matter off who performed the worst out of Imran, Wahab and Rahat in their last series?

There has to be a reason why he's not playing.

PS: we can discuss all we want, I think the only change we're going to get is Masood OUT, even that I wouldnt be surprised if they kept the same XI.
Click to expand...

Imran Khan was dreadful in the warm-up match before the series. He was low on pace - reportedly around 128-132K - but was also struggling for both line and length.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
If the wicket is typical Edgbaston wicket than i will bring in Jaahid Ali for Shan.

If the wicket is like Lords or Old Trafford than I will bring in Sharjeel Khan and would give him license to play his natural game without being over agressive or over hyper. Because He can than disrupt line and length of Anderson & Woakes like Sarfraz did succeed in disturbing line, length & plot of Chris Woakes for 2-3 overs. Otherwise they are so accurate, miserly that they land ball after after in same spots and ask too many questions with that Swing and kick.


But on a Typical Edgbaston wicket where Broad & Anderson have their best bowling Averages & Strike Rates Jaahid Ali is the Man to go too ahead of Sami Aslam who is in squad.


Rahat needs to be shown the door bringing in Control of Imran Khan. If Wahab recovers fuly from Injury than too i will have a 50 % inclination only to select him on Edgbaston surface and We must bring Hasan Ali whose natural length is Good length or fuller length and He swings it away from right handers.


Pakistan can also drop Azhar Ali and bring in Amad Butt with Asad going at number 3, younis 4, Misbah 5, Sarfraz 6, Amad 7, Yasir 8, Amir 9, Hasan 10, Imran 11.


We play Test Series in England after 6 years so we should not shy away from wholesale changes to the squad. I hope Mickey Arthur dominates.


1. Jaahid/Sharjeel

2. Hafeez

3. Asad

4. Younis

5. Misbah

6. Sarfraz

7. Amad

8. Yasir

9. Amir

10. Hasan/Wahab

11. Imran



Or



1. Jaahid/Sharjeel

2. Hafeez

3. Azhar

4. Younis

5. Misbah

6. Asad

7. Sarfraz

8. Yasir

9. Amir

10. Hasan/Wahab

11. Imran.



Note : I hope I am proved wrong but Iftikhar Ahmed as an Allrounder which he isn't won't work. Neither this is UAE. Especially with the Ball and we need a fifth bowling Option which can take 1-3 wickets and provide control aswell.
Click to expand...

I really respect you, but Sharjeel? What will a legside hack do against intelligent bowlers like Anderson, Woakes and Broad?

Maybe against WI, Zim or BD. But a world class side like Eng will figure his leg side play in 3 balls without studying his videos.
 
Prince_ said:
Shehzad is the only solution. Selectors can't just keep ignoring him. Give him enough chance and he'll eventually deliver.
Click to expand...

No not at all. He is not more certain to do well outside the UAE, let alone Asia, than the youngsters. And it could do him good to have some competition. Always struck me as a complacent character.
 
Muhammad Rizwan at number 6 in 3rd test?

should pakistan management drop Shan Masood and play Rizwan at number 6 with Hafeez And Azhar opening ?

I think they should because he is surely better player than iftikhar and We cannot risk Sami Aslam
 
If England play Adil Rashid then he won't last more than an over..
 
Wont mind at all. Azhar can open and Rizwan can bat at 6 with shafiq moving to 3
 
M Rizwan at number 6 in 3rd test

I think shan should be dropped and he should play at number 6 because he is better than iftikhar and sami

Sent from my RHYTHM RX45 using Tapatalk
 
Rizwan is a decent bat by Pakistan standards. He's got a decent array of strokes and generally plays the ball on merit. Works the ball around for ones and twos as well. He should be in the team in my opinion.
 
Rizwan would be a good addition to the slip cordon. Maybe we can get rid of one of Hafeez or Younis from there, both are awwal darjay ke lulloo
 
Rizwan has a loose off-side game, he's not ready for overseas Test cricket.

Will score 25-30 runs at a good rate with some crisp boundaries, but will eventually nick one when the bowls will bowl on the 4th stump channel.

Not much different to Hafeez and Sarfraz and does not improve the batting lineup in this series.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Rizwan is a decent bat by Pakistan standards. He's got a decent array of strokes and generally plays the ball on merit. Works the ball around for ones and twos as well. He should be in the team in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Lolwut

Seriously what cricket do you guys watch

He will put an ideal catching practise clinic for England's slip cordon
 
Mamoon said:
Rizwan has a loose off-side game, he's not ready for overseas Test cricket.

Will score 25-30 runs at a good rate with some crisp boundaries, but will eventually nick one when the bowls will bowl on the 4th stump channel.

Not much different to Hafeez and Sarfraz and does not improve the batting lineup in this series.
Click to expand...

He'd improve the batting line up just by replacing Shan, or even arguably Younus.
 
Slog said:
Lolwut

Seriously what cricket do you guys watch

He will put an ideal catching practise clinic for England's slip cordon
Click to expand...

I don't watch a lot of domestic cricket, but just about all Pakistan batsmen are rubbish outside the off stump so not sure that's a valid reason to dismiss anyone.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Rizwan is a decent bat by Pakistan standards. He's got a decent array of strokes and generally plays the ball on merit. Works the ball around for ones and twos as well. He should be in the team in my opinion.
Click to expand...

He may be better than Sarfraz who throws his wicket away in brain farts.

He has done that on so many times in tests that it is just ridiculous on how carelessly he throws away and un does all of the good work.
 
Play rizwan instead of shan make azhar open the innings anyway there is no much difference between opening and no.3
 
They seem to be thinking Hafeez will pass the test so his bowling action is legal, so I think they are going to keep him unfortunately.

Only change will be Imran in for Rahat or Wahab

So expect another *** kicking
 
Jabo said:
They seem to be thinking Hafeez will pass the test so his bowling action is legal, so I think they are going to keep him unfortunately.
Click to expand...

How will him passing the bowling test make his batting better? What guarantees are there that his bowling won't become mediocre like Ajmal?

Hafeez has far too much influence in the squad for such a mediocre player. This is why our cricket has gone downhill.
 
Assuming the pitch is flat, Misbah needs to win the toss and bat first. That's half the job done, like in the UAE batting first on fllat tracks is usually an advantage.
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
How will him passing the bowling test make his batting better? What guarantees are there that his bowling won't become mediocre like Ajmal?

Hafeez has far too much influence in the squad for such a mediocre player. This is why our cricket has gone downhill.
Click to expand...

I agree
 
Though I am a huge Rizwan fan, I really don't think he should play Tests at the moment, especially ahead of the likes of Babar.

He should first cement his position in LOIs.
 
LowKiiSavage said:
:)) As Azhar is failing, give rizwan a chance.

Dont see the A squad players getting called up thats why.
Click to expand...

Why not?

It's a golden opportunity to be able to call up A team players who are already acclimatised to the conditions. Almost unheard of. If they weren't already in England it would've made sense as no way could they just get used to conditions on a late call up
 
pak.cricket said:
if not him than who should replace shan? Tell me

Sent from my RHYTHM RX45 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



See how Sami Aslam goes in the practise match this week

Also we can move Azhar up and play Babar somewhere in the middle or lower middle order
 
Let's be honest Azhar can't be dropped for next match because he has a very good prior record atm regardless of it being in UAE and his form
 
I agree with a few that the bench is even worse than than XI that played the last match. To top it off the A squad are just not ready for top test level cricket so suggesting them to be drafted it and slotted in is just not going to happen and an outrageous thought.

Having said this, I do think the best option for Pakistan would be to drop Masood and play Iftikhar at 6. The only reason I say this is because he'll probably score you the same runs as Masood but will give you another bowling option if needed. Having said that, Azhar will have to open and shafiq at number 3 will mean a too much of a drastic change in the middle of series.

Having said that, I'm sure the only feasible option is Sami aslam for Masood and hoping Hafeez can bowl. + the IK inclusion for one of wahab/Rahat
 
AlphaFighter said:
Based on the squad selected we will have to try the following combination for the next test

1) Hafeez
2) Azhar Ali
3) Asad Shafiq
4) Misbah ul Haq
5) Younis Khan
6) Iftikhar
7) Sarfaraz
8) Yasir Shah
9) Mohd Amir
10) Rahat or Wahab
11) Imran Khan

This combination will give you 5 bowling options and 6-7 batsman. This is the best 11 we can play now.
Click to expand...

This team is the best possible for the next test with the squad available. I would put in Sohail Khan in for Wahab. We need England to think something different. Now they are very confident and do not rate our bowling attack after blunting Yasir. The likes of Sohail, Imran and the part time spin of Iftikar may just surprise them. Wahab could come back for the Oval where the pitch will suit him more. If somehow, Hafeez's bowling action is cleared before the next test, then Pakistan will be back in business I am sure.
 
Mamoon said:
Well so far, we have seen every excuse under the sun to protect the golden boy.

English media dented his confidence, dropped catches dented his confidence, we don't have a leader in our attack who can guide him, playing three left-armers means the English batsmen are getting used to it and it is impacting Amir etc. etc. etc.
Click to expand...

Quite flat pitches, test match fitness.
There is a lot there if u want make an unbiased assessment
 
Mamoon said:
Well so far, we have seen every excuse under the sun to protect the golden boy.

English media dented his confidence, dropped catches dented his confidence, we don't have a leader in our attack who can guide him, playing three left-armers means the English batsmen are getting used to it and it is impacting Amir etc. etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Support him, don't knock him. He has been out of the game for years. He'll be world class soon.
 
godzilla said:
they are not going to bring in A team players who beat a sub standard SL team and got pasted by the Lions. They'll go with the squad they have. Theres no point in having a squad if youre going to go outside of it. What they could have done is drafted the bench players into the A team for some practice, I suppose. But they didnt.

I get the impression Azher doesnt want to open, and given some here have been advocating looking at 2 games for the A team as some indication of bradman type strength, its probably worth remembering that azhar ali hit 101* and 145 in his warm up matches. ie two games/four innings against a weak team means nothing at all.

the problem is the last couple of years of crap selections by haroon. but given that cant be changed now, they will go with:

1. hafeez
2. son of a board member
3. azhar
4. saturday night fever
5. the king
6. 'technique' (whatever that means) when it doesnt matter
7. sarfraz
8. yasir
9. wahab
10. amir
11. imran
Click to expand...

Saturday night dancer :))). That genuinely made me LOL. Someone called him a banghra dancer, someone said he is playing hopscotch. These lines are hilarious do describe Younis actually feel sorry for him.
 
Azhar shouldn't be dropped. Put him at the top of the order. All he has to do is survive over 60balls and he done his job
 
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