European colonizers killed so many Native Americans that it changed the climate: researchers

[Pakistanian]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/01/world/european-colonization-climate-change-trnd/index.html

When Europeans arrived in the Americas, they caused so much death and disease that it changed the global climate, a new study finds.
European settlers killed 56 million indigenous people over about 100 years in South, Central and North America, causing large swaths of farmland to be abandoned and reforested, researchers at University College London, or UCL, estimate. The increase in trees and vegetation across an area the size of France resulted in a massive decrease in carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere, according to the study.
Carbon levels changed enough to cool the Earth by 1610, researchers found. Columbus arrived in 1492,

"CO2 and climate had been relatively stable until this point," said UCL Geography Professor Mark Maslin, one of the study's co-authors. "So, this is the first major change we see in the Earth's greenhouse gases."
Before this study, some scientists had argued the temperature change in the 1600s, called the Little Ice Age, was caused only by natural forces.
But by combining archaeological evidence, historical data and analysis of carbon found in Antarctic ice, the UCL researchers showed how the reforestation -- directly caused by the Europeans' arrival -- was a key component of the global chill, they said.
"For once, we've been able to balance all the boxes and realize that the only way the Little Ice Age was so intense is ... because of the genocide of millions of people," Maslin told CNN.
The methodology
Researchers analyzed Antarctic ice, which traps atmospheric gas and can reveal how much carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere centuries ago.
"The ice cores showed that there was a larger dip in CO2 (than usual) in 1610, which was caused by the land and not the oceans," said Alexander Koch, lead author of the study.
A small shift in temperatures -- about a 10th of a degree in the 17th century -- led to colder winters, frosty summers and failing harvests, Koch said.
The implications
The implications of the study go beyond climate science and also contribute to research in geography and history, Maslin said, noting that deaths of indigenous Americans directly contributed to the success of the European economy.

Natural resources and food shipped from the New World helped Europe's population to expand. It also allowed people to stop farming for sustenance and begin working in other industries for spare money.
"The really weird thing is, the depopulation of the Americas may have inadvertently allowed the Europeans to dominate the world," Maslin said. "It also allowed for the Industrial Revolution and for Europeans to continue that domination."

 

[Madplayer]

Woah

 

[barah_admi]

The real scary part is the scale of murder that took place. I read recently that North America had roughly 17 million native Americans, and these are Conservative estimates.

Imagine the destruction wrought by the British, the French, the Spanish et al that that number is now almost non existent.

Scary.

 

[Pakistanian]

#NeverForget

 

[Slog]

Thank you Britain

 

[KingKhanWC]

No need to beat around the Bush, these Europeans were nothing short of evil. Even after the Europeans the Americans continued to kill the natives.

The question is why isn't this history taught and why aren't there rememberence services? We keep hearing of the Jewish holocaust which seems tiny compared to this genocide?

 

[Pakistanian]

The real scary part is the scale of murder that took place. I read recently that North America had roughly 17 million native Americans, and these are Conservative estimates.

Imagine the destruction wrought by the British, the French, the Spanish et al that that number is now almost non existent.

Scary.

And the Dutch too. New York was first called New Amsterdam, the Dutch stole the land from the natives.

 

[KingKhanWC]

And the Dutch too. New York was first called New Amsterdam, the Dutch stole the land from the natives.

Are you taught this history in school?

 

[Pakistanian]

Thank you Britain

Not just them, the Spaniards wiped out natives in most of America, the French wiped them out in the lands that were part of the Louisiana purchase, the Dutch wiped them out in New York and then there were the Germans and Scandinavians who were part of the westward expansion, squatted land in the name of homesteading.

 

[Pakistanian]

Are you taught this history in school?

Yeah we watch documentaries on it too but we can definitely do more, the white kids always walk out when they have to watch a documentary about that or about segregation or japanese internment. Some states are trying to change columbus day to indigienous peoples day but unfortunaly most people still celebrate him as a hero.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Land of opportunity for the land of opportunists. America’s contemporary illegal wars are just an extension of its exploitative foundations.

 

[barah_admi]

And the Dutch too. New York was first called New Amsterdam, the Dutch stole the land from the natives.

Yes of course, I just did not have the time to mention all the European atrocities.

 

[sjahmed23]

How many were killed because of the diseases european brought?

 

[Saeed]

They need have as many kids as they can to make up for the lost opportunity.

 

[TM Riddle]

Thank you Britain

Britain has got nothing on Spaniards.

 

[JaDed]

Read a Similar study about Mongols doing the same for climate, they killed much more than this.

 

[JaDed]

This is how the world always worked, religious wars, national ones etc why is this specifically cruel and @never forget?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

This is how the world always worked, religious wars, national ones etc why is this specifically cruel and @never forget?

Because the downfall of other empires are consolations for their victims. Can't say the same about the white colonizers of America because they still occupy and enjoy the global power. That is why it is especially cruel.

 

[JaDed]

Because the downfall of other empires are consolations for their victims. Can't say the same about the white colonizers of America because they still occupy and enjoy the global power. That is why it is especially cruel.

Hmm ,it takes time? Europeans have kind of fallen, America is not doing as great as it was 10-20 years ago.

The religious wars went for so long, America is so young comparatively..

Plus what consolation, the religion/ethnicity was imparted on the defeated..

 

[troodon]

It was pathetic from Americans from Europe who did that. Many died in war and many died due to the diseases that Europeans brought with them and many also got absorbed into the genetic pool of White and black Americans in North America.

US recognizes this and have shown many documentaries on TV. They talk about it till date. But you cannot hold the modern day White Americans for what their ancestors did. They have nothing to do with them. At least they agree and have given reparations to the Natives.

Many White Americans have some Native American heritage in them. The numerous White Americans have absorbed the Natives into their gene pool. Its now going on with blacks. But Black genes are too strong and you can easily tell apart white people with black in their genes.

Many dominant cultures have done this including Spanish and Arabs. Nobody invited these guys into foreign lands to destroy their native culture and impose their faith and beliefs on the conquered people.

It is what it is.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Hmm ,it takes time? Europeans have kind of fallen, America is not doing as great as it was 10-20 years ago.

The religious wars went for so long, America is so young comparatively..

Plus what consolation, the religion/ethnicity was imparted on the defeated..

People can come to love religions/ethnicities imparted on them because in a way they can be a binding factors for the oppressed. But what they cannot come to love is the ppl who imparted it on them and the way it was imparted on them. For example; the native Africans who were enslaved by the white colonisers and shipped to the Americas, a lot of them, still love Jesus. His teachings and example inspire them to fight white supremacy and oppression. Similarly, the Hindus of sub-continent can feel consoled by the fact that Mughals don’t rule them anymore. But the native Americans can’t console themselves because they are still being ruled by the white supermacists sitting in the White House.

 

[Buffet]

How many were killed because of the diseases european brought?

More than 90% and it was inevitable.

I will recommend reading the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies"

 

[JaDed]

People can come to love religions/ethnicities imparted on them because in a way they can be a binding factors for the oppressed. But what they cannot come to love is the ppl who imparted it on them and the way it was imparted on them. For example; the native Africans who were enslaved by the white colonisers and shipped to the Americas, a lot of them, still love Jesus. His teachings and example inspire them to fight white supremacy and oppression. Similarly, the Hindus of sub-continent can feel consoled by the fact that Mughals don’t rule them anymore. But the native Americans can’t console themselves because they are still being ruled by the white supermacists sitting in the White House.

Sounds like Stockholm syndrome when people take over religion/ethnicity of the Conquerers seems like you are justifying that also Native Americans get a lot of reservations, esp in Canada where they are well protected now with their provinces, and they were never in high numbers to rule over Whites.. Also Muslim rulers or Christians before them were there for centuries..and the Natives never really had a great civilization in terms of global recognition so don't think they would ever be ruling over such a huge majority.

Whatever happened with Native Americans is brutal but many in America, Australia are very very mindful about the killings, talking about whites here ,can you say the same about Arabs or Subcontinent Muslims,Arabs most still look it up as times we used to rule in this very forum there are posts about the same.

Also even within India many kingdoms were exploitative irrespective of religion but the way many Americans/Canadians/Aussies feel guilt and give reservations I haven't seen it in other places sorry to say.

 

[finalfantasy7]

The real scary part is the scale of murder that took place. I read recently that North America had roughly 17 million native Americans, and these are Conservative estimates.

Imagine the destruction wrought by the British, the French, the Spanish et al that that number is now almost non existent.

Scary.

What roughly was the population before the Europeans came. It cant be that much, look india by its own admission admits thr population has nearly doubled since 1947.

World became very populated in the 18th century and onward - any researcher will tell you this.

 

[ManFan]

Although colonists massacred Native Americans, most of them died due to diseases the former brought that the latter was not familiar with; smallpox,malaria, etc.

 

[Slog]

Although colonists massacred Native Americans, most of them died due to diseases the former brought that the latter was not familiar with; smallpox,malaria, etc.

would you blame the colonists for that?

 

[Madplayer]

would you blame the colonists for that?

Didnt the colonialists give the natives small pox infected blankets to kill them of the disease? Thats the lowest of the low a human can stoop to.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Hmm ,it takes time? Europeans have kind of fallen, America is not doing as great as it was 10-20 years ago.

The religious wars went for so long, America is so young comparatively..

Plus what consolation, the religion/ethnicity was imparted on the defeated..

Kinda expected you to drag in religion, is it necessary every time?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

It is disappointing to see ppl relativising historical colonial brutalities.

 

[barah_admi]

What roughly was the population before the Europeans came. It cant be that much, look india by its own admission admits thr population has nearly doubled since 1947.

World became very populated in the 18th century and onward - any researcher will tell you this.

As I said, roughly 17 million but those are according to conservative estimates. However, even one murder should be enough to make a man's soul shake, let alone mass genocide.

 

[finalfantasy7]

As I said, roughly 17 million but those are according to conservative estimates. However, even one murder should be enough to make a man's soul shake, let alone mass genocide.

i agree, 17m loss, is always shocking, like you said even 1 human dying is awful.

 

[JaDed]

Kinda expected you to drag in religion, is it necessary every time?

Yup, to create a view how religion should be there as a tool of violence..

 

[James]

The White European people sure have a blood-soaked history. In terms of global population figures, they are at best a large minority (11% or so) and yet the influence they have wrought upon the world using ruthless violence, mass murder and ingenious power politics adds up to a thoroughly evil legacy. As Gandhi said, “Western Civilisation” would be a good idea.

 

[Napa]

The interesting question is, if Europeans and Americans are so evil and so much worse than the rest of mankind, why did the majority of posters in this thread migrate to their countries?

 

[Madplayer]

The interesting question is, if Europeans and Americans are so evil and so much worse than the rest of mankind, why did the majority of posters in this thread migrate to their countries?

Because Europe and America or any place where descendents of colonialists live, is eternally indebted to the these posters and their fellow countrymen. We will dance on the heads of Europeans and Americans till the end of times they looted our nations to build their empires. Infact they are still looting in one country or the other.

 

[James]

The interesting question is, if Europeans and Americans are so evil and so much worse than the rest of mankind, why did the majority of posters in this thread migrate to their countries?

One of the accidental side effects of being an old colonial force is that it naturally makes a country more outward-looking in its legacy. Therefore the likes of America and particularly Britain have reasonably open immigration policies.

The Commonwealth remains strong. There are lots of ways to “become” a Brit via residency, passport or citizenship. Partly due to Britain’s considerable influence on pre-war global discourse, and its continued softer power in the world, to be British is viewed by many as a genuine aspiration.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I think Spaniards were the most cruel colonialists, they made the Brits look like saints.

 

[Pakistanian]

The interesting question is, if Europeans and Americans are so evil and so much worse than the rest of mankind, why did the majority of posters in this thread migrate to their countries?

this is such a dumb comment

 

[light]

No need to beat around the Bush, these Europeans were nothing short of evil. Even after the Europeans the Americans continued to kill the natives.

The question is why isn't this history taught and why aren't there rememberence services? We keep hearing of the Jewish holocaust which seems tiny compared to this genocide?

Whats more insulting is that they try their best to hide this from the history book. Some of these kids are even scared to question the professor cause they get shuned upon. I on the other hand had no problem shoving it up where it belonged, obviously got no love from the teacher for extra marks in exams lmaoo.

 

[Napa]

I think Spaniards were the most cruel colonialists, they made the Brits look like saints.

If you do a bit of research in the history of inhumanity, you will find many competing atrocities. For example, Unit 731.

 

[Napa]

One of the accidental side effects of being an old colonial force is that it naturally makes a country more outward-looking in its legacy. Therefore the likes of America and particularly Britain have reasonably open immigration policies.

The Commonwealth remains strong. There are lots of ways to “become” a Brit via residency, passport or citizenship. Partly due to Britain’s considerable influence on pre-war global discourse, and its continued softer power in the world, to be British is viewed by many as a genuine aspiration.

Human nature is human nature, there are no "accidental side effects". Britain and America are more open to immigrants because the general population is by nature relatively tolerant and firms benefit for talented immigrants. Criticism of Europeans and their American descendants for their behavior during colonial times is justified, but we shouldn't forget that the record of other ethnicities is not any better. They are the ones who worked to abolish slavery while the rest of the world was quite tolerant of slavery.

 

[Robert]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/01/world/european-colonization-climate-change-trnd/index.html

Extraordinary, and it shows how much human activities have on the biosphere even before the Industrial Age.

 

[Robert]

No need to beat around the Bush, these Europeans were nothing short of evil. Even after the Europeans the Americans continued to kill the natives.

The question is why isn't this history taught and why aren't there rememberence services? We keep hearing of the Jewish holocaust which seems tiny compared to this genocide?

The Holocaust is within living memory and left a dreadful scar across Europe and the USA.

Whereas the victims of the Mengeles of the American West and South America had nobody to speak for them.

 

[James]

Human nature is human nature, there are no "accidental side effects". Britain and America are more open to immigrants because the general population is by nature relatively tolerant and firms benefit for talented immigrants. Criticism of Europeans and their American descendants for their behavior during colonial times is justified, but we shouldn't forget that the record of other ethnicities is not any better. They are the ones who worked to abolish slavery while the rest of the world was quite tolerant of slavery.

Fair enough.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Human nature is human nature, there are no "accidental side effects". Britain and America are more open to immigrants because the general population is by nature relatively tolerant and firms benefit for talented immigrants. Criticism of Europeans and their American descendants for their behavior during colonial times is justified, but we shouldn't forget that the record of other ethnicities is not any better. They are the ones who worked to abolish slavery while the rest of the world was quite tolerant of slavery.

It was America which led the way for the acceptance of mass immigration, their supremacy was built on it from the foundations itself. Europe itself was not that open to it initially, but followed suit on seeing the success of the culture which emerged in the USA. It will be fascinating to see if eastern countries will see the need to follow suit as they try to compete in the future.

 

[topspin]

The interesting question is, if Europeans and Americans are so evil and so much worse than the rest of mankind, why did the majority of posters in this thread migrate to their countries?

I find it remarkable and ironic that an Indian would post such a question since your country has experienced this first hand from the British.

To answer your question, the Europeans invaded, massacred, looted, enslaved and pillaged resources out of North & South America, Asia and Africa to such a scale they desperately needed immigrants to build the accomplishments of where they stand today as developed countries.

 

[IMMY69]

I'm confused.
Is this thread a history lesson on colonialism and the killing of Native Americans by the Europeans, with the added genocide of the holocaust as good measure or about the resulting CLIMATE CHANGE?????

Is THANOS supposed to be European?

 

[Napa]

I find it remarkable and ironic that an Indian would post such a question since your country has experienced this first hand from the British.

To answer your question, the Europeans invaded, massacred, looted, enslaved and pillaged resources out of North & South America, Asia and Africa to such a scale they desperately needed immigrants to build the accomplishments of where they stand today as developed countries.

This is the fallacious argument advanced by the South Asian elites as they continue living lives of comfort. The problems of South Asia now are due to South Asians.

And you completely missed my question. I did not ask "why did the West need immigrants?". I asked "why did the posters in thread who consider the West so much more evil than other countries, migrate to the West?"

Think about it, and then try to answer the question if you can without digressing.

The mob wants to believe a certain view of the world, but if we are to make our lives better we have to go with what is true and not fantasies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is the fallacious argument advanced by the South Asian elites as they continue living lives of comfort. The problems of South Asia now are due to South Asians.

And you completely missed my question. I did not ask "why did the West need immigrants?". I asked "why did the posters in thread who consider the West so much more evil than other countries, migrate to the West?"

Think about it, and then try to answer the question if you can without digressing.

The mob wants to believe a certain view of the world, but if we are to make our lives better we have to go with what is true and not fantasies.

Do you know that they migrated? Could be they were born in the west or were taken there as children, hence don't feel the same obligation an adult migrant would.

 

[Napa]

Do you know that they migrated? Could be they were born in the west or were taken there as children, hence don't feel the same obligation an adult migrant would.

True, but then the question is why did their parents or grandparents migrate?

 

[Pakistanian]

True, but then the question is why did their parents or grandparents migrate?

For a better life? The western world became wealthy from stealing large swathes of fertile lands from the natives, colonising non European countries and stealing billions or trillions of dollars worth of wealth from these colonies, using free labor in the form of slavery and indentured labor, creating an apartheid system in some countries so hillarious how you're acting so naive that people from these former colonies want to go to rich western countries that were built on these atrocities. Something tells me you grew up in India cause this discussion won't make any sense to you.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

True, but then the question is why did their parents or grandparents migrate?

I ask myself the same question why are Iranians suddenly risking their lives crossing the ocean in flimsy dinghies since the economic sanctions started squeezing the living standards of the average citizen? This is a country which was on the brink of thriving when the rest of the world started doing business with them before Trump and his Saudi friends decided they needed to be brought down.

 

[Napa]

I ask myself the same question why are Iranians suddenly risking their lives crossing the ocean in flimsy dinghies since the economic sanctions started squeezing the living standards of the average citizen? This is a country which was on the brink of thriving when the rest of the world started doing business with them before Trump and his Saudi friends decided they needed to be brought down.

Actually my question was rhetorical. Those who complain that Europeans are most evil while moving to the West are simply wanting to have the cake and eat it too. Undoubtedly colonization was brutal, but it is silly to pretend that the rest of mankind is morally superior or would have been kinder. In recent times immigrants to the West are welcomed to those societies more than they would have been in most other societies, and that is due to the generally tolerant nature of Europeans and their descendants. Which is not to say that there are no horrible Europeans, but one should consider the aggregate rather than individuals when judging a people.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Actually my question was rhetorical. Those who complain that Europeans are most evil while moving to the West are simply wanting to have the cake and eat it too. Undoubtedly colonization was brutal, but it is silly to pretend that the rest of mankind is morally superior or would have been kinder. In recent times immigrants to the West are welcomed to those societies more than they would have been in most other societies, and that is due to the generally tolerant nature of Europeans and their descendants. Which is not to say that there are no horrible Europeans, but one should consider the aggregate rather than individuals when judging a people.

I don't actually think immigrants who move to the west complain about their new homes, my guess is those who are able to talk about colonisation are those who have been brought up in the west and thus are not beholden with gratitude. I would guess most immigrants have left their own countries because they were dissatisfied for whatever reason with their situations.

 

[Napa]

I don't actually think immigrants who move to the west complain about their new homes, my guess is those who are able to talk about colonisation are those who have been brought up in the west and thus are not beholden with gratitude. I would guess most immigrants have left their own countries because they were dissatisfied for whatever reason with their situations.

Obviously the decision to migrate is based on two factors: "What do I have where I live now?" and "What will I get if I move?"

So the second factor cannot be horrible if the decision is to migrate, and that is due to the generally welcoming nature of the Europeans.

Don't get sidetracked by the red herring of "where did you grow up?". I have found those born in South Asia who currently live in the US to be more vociferous in their condemnation of the West and its history. Which is not surprising as the liberal professors in India is quite into criticizing the West.

Where one is born doesn't impact their ability to think clearly about issues.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Obviously the decision to migrate is based on two factors: "What do I have where I live now?" and "What will I get if I move?"

So the second factor cannot be horrible if the decision is to migrate, and that is due to the generally welcoming nature of the Europeans.

Don't get sidetracked by the red herring of "where did you grow up?". I have found those born in South Asia who currently live in the US to be more vociferous in their condemnation of the West and its history. Which is not surprising as the liberal professors in India is quite into criticizing the West.

Where one is born doesn't impact their ability to think clearly about issues.

Well it would be easy for me to say that Europeans would be far more welcoming than Indians, as India has a very hostile and suspicious attitude to those with any connection to Pakistan, even if it is only through parental links, but do you feel that American Indians themselves have a tendency to condemn the west over much? For instance I had never heard about the famine in Bengal prior to being a member of this site, but here I have heard many constantly denounce British rule and Churchill's role in that famine.

 

[Napa]

Well it would be easy for me to say that Europeans would be far more welcoming than Indians, as India has a very hostile and suspicious attitude to those with any connection to Pakistan, even if it is only through parental links, but do you feel that American Indians themselves have a tendency to condemn the west over much? For instance I had never heard about the famine in Bengal prior to being a member of this site, but here I have heard many constantly denounce British rule and Churchill's role in that famine.

Churchill is one person, and he was undoubtedly a warmonger. Life for him was a constant struggle to subjugate others. He clearly said that the English needed to rule India so that they would have space for their growing population, which was also the basic desire of "living space" (Lebensraum) of Hitler for the German population.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_lebensraum_01.shtml

However, Churchill is one person and the English also produced notable liberals and enlightened pacifist sects like the Unitarians and the Quakers. So when judging the English, one must look at the entire people and their history rather than individuals.

As for India, though India's relations with Pakistan are poor, for over a thousand years India has been a refuge for persecuted people fleeing their countries. That is why today we have Bahais, Bohras, Jews, Parsis etc. living in India with the same rights as everybody else.

To understand India's suspicion of Pakistan, you have to follow the money. Who benefits from this low-level war between India and Pakistan? I have made enough posts on this issue on this forum so will refrain for saying anything more.

Not sure if you meant "Indian Americans" rather than "American Indians". If you really meant American Indians (Native Americans), of course they have a major grievance against the European colonizers.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Churchill is one person, and he was undoubtedly a warmonger. Life for him was a constant struggle to subjugate others. He clearly said that the English needed to rule India so that they would have space for their growing population, which was also the basic desire of "living space" (Lebensraum) of Hitler for the German population.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_lebensraum_01.shtml

However, Churchill is one person and the English also produced notable liberals and enlightened pacifist sects like the Unitarians and the Quakers. So when judging the English, one must look at the entire people and their history rather than individuals.

As for India, though India's relations with Pakistan are poor, for over a thousand years India has been a refuge for persecuted people fleeing their countries. That is why today we have Bahais, Bohras, Jews, Parsis etc. living in India with the same rights as everybody else.

To understand India's suspicion of Pakistan, you have to follow the money. Who benefits from this low-level war between India and Pakistan? I have made enough posts on this issue on this forum so will refrain for saying anything more.

Not sure if you meant "Indian Americans" rather than "American Indians". If you really meant American Indians (Native Americans), of course they have a major grievance against the European colonizers.

Well, in my view, if you take away the leadership, or ideologues, all people are welcoming, regardless of whether they are European, African or Asian. This also fits into my own personal belief that humanity is basically the same, they share the same good and bad traits. So if we don't judge Europeans by Hitler or Churchill, neither should we judge Chinese people on chairman Mao, or Africans on Idi Amin.

I feel we are making progress here.

 

[anikrc1]

Well, in my view, if you take away the leadership, or ideologues, all people are welcoming, regardless of whether they are European, African or Asian. This also fits into my own personal belief that humanity is basically the same, they share the same good and bad traits. So if we don't judge Europeans by Hitler or Churchill, neither should we judge Chinese people on chairman Mao, or Africans on Idi Amin.

I feel we are making progress here.

I am curious as why are you placing mao at the same sentence as Hitler or idi amin ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am curious as why are you placing mao at the same sentence as Hitler or idi amin ?

He was the first leader I could think of from Asian race. You can replace with Pol Pot and Cambodia if you like.