Even Bangladesh can bowl out teams on away tours, why can't Pakistan?

[Sher Khan]

Remarkable performance from Bangladesh to bowl out NZ for 328 in their own backyard. They also only played four frontline bowlers.

With Pakistan touring away countries, we often see scores like 600/3 declared by the opposition, especially in countries like Australia and NZ. On top of that as we have seen in England and West Indies recently we struggle to bowl out oppositions and let batting teams chase down targets we should have bowled them out for.

My question is if even Bangladesh ( a country which rarely gets the chance to play in SENA) can bowl out teams on away tours then why can't out so called "strong" bowling attack not?

 

[ElRaja]

last aus / nz tours pak took rookie line ups to bowl against world class teams. zafar gohar, yasir shah and naseem shah are fringe selections even for their domestic teams.

also last test nz played was more than six months ago, likely some ring rust. theyll improve as the series goes on. also kane williamson not playing would have an impact.

finally pak have no idea how to bowl in aus, they look for wickets, when india showed disciplined bowling is the way to choke aussie line up.

 

[Giannis]

Pakistan can easily do that against NZ with the current bowling attack. Bangladesh letting NZ score >300 isn't impressive, bowl em out for under 150 and then that would be a remarkable bowling performance.

 

[Buffet]

Remarkable performance from Bangladesh to bowl out NZ for 328 in their own backyard. They also only played four frontline bowlers.

With Pakistan touring away countries, we often see scores like 600/3 declared by the opposition, especially in countries like Australia and NZ. On top of that as we have seen in England and West Indies recently we struggle to bowl out oppositions and let batting teams chase down targets we should have bowled them out for.

My question is if even Bangladesh ( a country which rarely gets the chance to play in SENA) can bowl out teams on away tours then why can't out so called "strong" bowling attack not?

In Aus? Pakistan does not know how to bowl in Aus.

Pakistan's bowling unit average,

1999 series - 48
2004 series - 52
2009 series - 42
2016 series - 62
2019 series - 90

The last series in Aus was the poor situation with a rookie attack. That's never going to do well aus, but even before that Pakistan has struggled in Aus. Bowlers don't know how to bowl in Aus.

Now NZ situation is not the same, Yes Pakistan did not bowl well in the last series in NZ, but before that Pakistani bowlers did well in NZ.

Pakistan bowling avg in NZ

2020 series - 60
2016 series - 33
2011 series - 26
2009 series - 30

It should be clear that NZ and Aus situation is not the same. Pakistan has bowled out NZ often in NZ, but can't be said the same about Aus. I won't read much into the last tour of NZ. It was a poor bowling unit that played in Aus and NZ.

 

[Varun]

Bangladesh don't get to tour all of SENA much, but they seem to have a New Zealand tour every other year.

 

[sweep_shot]

Bangladesh don't get to tour all of SENA much, but they seem to have a New Zealand tour every other year.

You are right. They haven't toured Australia since 2008. They haven't toured England since 2010.

They go to New Zealand a lot. They also go to South Africa.

 

[Greenstorm]

Wait before an attack of Shaheen, Dhani, Hassan/Naseem lands there.

 

[Snowflake]

How many times has BD done this?

 

[warcry]

pakistan can start by not picking yasir shah overseas.
this way you are plying with 11 men.

the next move would be to drop abbas as he is too slow to be effective in nz/sa/aus.

play 4 fast bowlers+faheem. playing a spinner is overrated as the match rarely reaches the last day and the pitches simply do not turn. i'd rather get docked for over rate than see the opposition reach 300/1 in the first day of cricket.

 

[Last Monetarist]

also last test nz played was more than six months ago, likely some ring rust. theyll improve as the series goes on.

New Zealand's last Test was less than a month ago in Mumbai. Lack of practice should not be an excuse, need to give credit to the Bangladesh bowlers for being disciplined and bowling to a plan.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Bangladesh got lucky.

Sure, they were good and bowled disciplined lines. But let's not act like Bangladesh doesn't have the worst bowling attack in test cricket. Their pace attack atleast should not be compared to any test playing nation's pace attack barring Afghanistan or Ireland.

Pakistan's problem on away tours tends to be mental. They will lose a close game or two (which they could have won or drawn) and by the end of the series they are completely demoralized and in total meltdown mode.

Happened in Australia, England and New Zealand.

 

[transparent opacity]

Again a good bowling performance, 5 wickets so far in the second innings.

BD looking good to bowl NZ out again and win their First Test in SENA.

 

[Ahmed216]

Again a good bowling performance, 5 wickets so far in the second innings.

BD looking good to bowl NZ out again and win their First Test in SENA.

Or will it be first away win for BD?

 

[Rana]

I guess Bangladesh are better than Pakistan

 

[hitthestump]

Yasir Shah has been carrying the test side for several years. He is hopeless in SENA and therefore we always struggle there.

 

[hitthestump]

Wait before an attack of Shaheen, Dhani, Hassan/Naseem lands there.

They'll do the same as the previous attacks have done over the past decade, which is nothing.

Pakistan's LOI bowling is good but test bowling is borderline pathetic. If it wasn't for Yasir Shah we'd be true minnows when it comes to bowling teams out.

 

[sweep_shot]

Or will it be first away win for BD?

Bangladesh have won a Test against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka.

Also, they beat West Indies in West Indies in 2009 (won 2-0).

 

[Saj]

On their way to bowling out NZ twice in the same match.

 

[pratiktc]

Bangladesh doing what bigger neighbours India, Pak have not done for long long time in NZ.
Congrats and we'll deserved

 

[Artaxerxes]

They'll do the same as the previous attacks have done over the past decade, which is nothing.

Pakistan's LOI bowling is good but test bowling is borderline pathetic. If it wasn't for Yasir Shah we'd be true minnows when it comes to bowling teams out.

Pakistan fielding has been pathetic for many years.In every match many catches were dropped.The batsmen who were dropped went in to make big scores.The bowling was not top class I agree but poor fielding didn’t help our cause.

 

[Shafi]

To be honest Bangladesh has far better batsmen than us. Bowling is weak but not worst. In most cases we cannot score over 250 where Bangladesh scored over 450+. That's the key. We are obsessed with bowling and totally neglecting batting. You cannot win matches without proper batsmen.

 

[Shafi]

Wait before an attack of Shaheen, Dhani, Hassan/Naseem lands there.

It will be same like before. Apart from Shaheen others are as par with Bangladesh but our batting always cost us. Bangladesh has superior batting talent than us. You cannot win matches by scoring around 200 runs in test matches.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Pakistani bowlers bowl too short in australia , saw shoaib akhtar wasting his energy in australia in his prime.

Only wasim akram , imran khan and sarfraz nawaz did better in australia. Mohammad Asif was Ok barring his first test match. Waqar younis too was a big failure in australia.

Pakistan quicks used to do well in NZ , its only in the last 10 years that we have been failing.

 

[Usman Chadda]

It will be same like before. Apart from Shaheen others are as par with Bangladesh but our batting always cost us. Bangladesh has superior batting talent than us. You cannot win matches by scoring around 200 runs in test matches.

Pakistan just whitewashed Bangladesh in Bangladesh, how does that translate to Bangladesh having ‘superior talent than us’? Atleast criticize with some logic.

Pakistan pacers have bowled filth in Australia and New Zealand. They get carried away with the bounce and get carted around by players best suited to facing that kind of bowling. Pretty sure if someone digs up the length percentages for the last three tours, the answer will be visibly clear.

 

[Greenstorm]

They'll do the same as the previous attacks have done over the past decade, which is nothing.

Pakistan's LOI bowling is good but test bowling is borderline pathetic. If it wasn't for Yasir Shah we'd be true minnows when it comes to bowling teams out.

Our test bowling is not pathetic.

Shaheen
Hassan
Nauman
Abbas
Sajid

All of them have sub 25 average in tests. Hassan missed SENA tours due to injury. Shaheen-Naseem were rookies and Abbas was too slow.
Our young bowlers are promising and should do well overseas once they have gained enough experience.

 

[hitthestump]

Our test bowling is not pathetic.

Shaheen
Hassan
Nauman
Abbas
Sajid

All of them have sub 25 average in tests. Hassan missed SENA tours due to injury. Shaheen-Naseem were rookies and Abbas was too slow.
Our young bowlers are promising and should do well overseas once they have gained enough experience.

Hassan was not injured, he had been dropped. The 2nd part of the bolded statement remains pretty much correct. Shaheen has improved but remains a test rookie. The spinners will do nothing in SENA which is what this thread is about.

 

[A.A.Z]

Hassan was not injured, he had been dropped. The 2nd part of the bolded statement remains pretty much correct. Shaheen has improved but remains a test rookie. The spinners will do nothing in SENA which is what this thread is about.

He was injured not dropped

 

[Markhor]

Besides the lack of quality red ball seamers, let's not forget one important thing - bowling plans.

For years Pakistan have relied on superstar pacers to deliver magic deliveries than producing wickets through creating spells of pressure, targeting a batsman's weakness, or setting fields to cut off a batsman's scoring areas. Mohammad Asif was an exception.

I'm still not over how, despite the world seeing Chris Woakes dismissed to short deliveries over and again, we kept feeding him length balls in that Manchester Test. Or how, despite Stuart Broad repeatedly dismissing David Warner from around the wicket in the 2019 Ashes, we didn't bother doing so in the 1st Test in Australia !

I firmly believe the role of a bowling coach at international level is not about basic technical coaching but about strategic planning. And Otis Gibson got his bowling plans right with Bangladesh, while Bharat Arun was India's MVP on their tour of Australia with those legside fields he helped devise. However in Pakistan we're infatuated with legendary bowlers turned coaches like Waqar who was never an astute strategic planner either as bowler, captain or coach.

 

[Buffet]

Besides the lack of quality red ball seamers, let's not forget one important thing - bowling plans.

For years Pakistan have relied on superstar pacers to deliver magic deliveries than producing wickets through creating spells of pressure, targeting a batsman's weakness, or setting fields to cut off a batsman's scoring areas. Mohammad Asif was an exception.

I'm still not over how, despite the world seeing Chris Woakes dismissed to short deliveries over and again, we kept feeding him length balls in that Manchester Test. Or how, despite Stuart Broad repeatedly dismissing David Warner from around the wicket in the 2019 Ashes, we didn't bother doing so in the 1st Test in Australia !

I firmly believe the role of a bowling coach at international level is not about basic technical coaching but about strategic planning. And Otis Gibson got his bowling plans right with Bangladesh, while Bharat Arun was India's MVP on their tour of Australia with those legside fields he helped devise. However in Pakistan we're infatuated with legendary bowlers turned coaches like Waqar who was never an astute strategic planner either as bowler, captain or coach.

Waqar has never displayed any sign of being an astute planner. At least I don't recall any. I hope that he does not come back again as a coach.

 

[Junaids]

Two reasons.

Firstly, if you look at the South Africa tour, Pakistan could reliably bowl them out for an average of around 280, they just couldn’t score that many themselves.

Secondly, Yasir Shah.

Pakistan keep persisting with a guy who averages 65 runs per wicket outside Asia, and that means that they have to over bowl three quicks who get slower and slower and slower.

Give me an attack like this, and I will get teams bowled out every time in SENA:

11 Shaheen Shah Afridi
10 Sameen Gul
9 Hasan Ali
8 Faheem Ashraf
7 Shadab Khan
6 Mubasir Khan