Even with dips in form Fawad Alam & Sadaf Hussain manage to outclass their peers

[asfandyar]

Fawad averages 55 and Sadaf averages 23 in the recently concluded tournament. I heard news from different sources that both had lost interest in domestics because of the constant oversight despite persistent performance.

Yet both manage to average comfortable above many of their batchmates. If this not a testament to their class, I don't know what is.

Posters here often defend their favorite players' poor performance in the domestics by citing reasons such as "seems to have lost interest", "seems to have an injury", "the captain played him at the wrong position" and "he was not utilized properly".

These two players have fulfilled almost all roles in domestics/internationals, played as opener, one down etc and still extruded their class. My question is: should we look at how a player performs when he is out of form before selecting him for internationals, or a purple patch (as in the case of Babar Azam in test cricket) is all that is required?

 

[Ellipsism]

A bowling average of 23 is nothing to get worked up about.

 

[Major]

A bowling average of 23 is nothing to get worked up about.

?

A 23 bowling avg is good, and by sadaf standards its a dip in form.

Good opening post

 

[Ellipsism]

?

A 23 bowling avg is good, and by sadaf standards its a dip in form.

Good opening post

By Pakistani FC standards that's merely average.

 

[asfandyar]

By Pakistani FC standards that's merely average.

You sir, have had a dip in your reading form. Please read the post again.

 

[Ellipsism]

You sir, have had a dip in your reading form. Please read the post again.

Didn't read the post, got the basic gist of what your saying from skimming through.

 

[boomboom6]

I've practically given up hope in either of them making the team.

 

[TQ89]

tbf Fawad alam is over-rated. I myself was his ardent fan. He couldn't score against bangladeshi bowlers in 2015. Yet we wanna think that he is somehow gonna set the world on fire if he is gonna be selected. Plus he is on wrong side of 30 now.

Did he deserve a longer rope? Yes but let us not forget that other than afridi's clique nobody got longer rope during the past 6-8 years. That is how the system is & it isn't going anywhere.

Why do you think Misbah & younis were so damn consistent these past years? Bro the moment they would go 3 innings without substantial scoring, people would start murmurring to axe them. The same people who could tolerate afridi for 20 years, umar akmal/shehzad for last 7 years.

 

[Jan Sher]

Well said.

But don't worry brother, the era of over hyped players is about to end, those who aren't over hyped will be the ones who will win you games.

 

[Jan Sher]

Investing in Azhar, Asad and Babar, over Fawad, is beyond me. And sticking with a rubbish bowler like Rahat Ali, is also beyond me. Sadaf should have played this series against Australia.

Our selectors have always been illiterate.

 

[Major]

Investing in Azhar, Asad and Babar, over Fawad, is beyond me. And sticking with a rubbish bowler like Rahat Ali, is also beyond me. Sadaf should have played this series against Australia.

Our selectors have always been illiterate.

?

All those guys have been selected on merit. Babar and Sami are the best youngsters in Pakistan, if you think there is someone better then them in our domestic setup then you are hallucinating.

Now a player doesn't perform at international level then its not the selectors fault

Dropping a player doesn't necessarily mean the new comer will perform.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I have heard enough of Fawas will be found out overseas. It is not like Asad and Azhar has broken many batting records.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Here's hoping they stay out of form and out of the side.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Fawad averages 55 and Sadaf averages 23 in the recently concluded tournament. I heard news from different sources that both had lost interest in domestics because of the constant oversight despite persistent performance.

Yet both manage to average comfortable above many of their batchmates. If this not a testament to their class, I don't know what is.

Posters here often defend their favorite players' poor performance in the domestics by citing reasons such as "seems to have lost interest", "seems to have an injury", "the captain played him at the wrong position" and "he was not utilized properly".

These two players have fulfilled almost all roles in domestics/internationals, played as opener, one down etc and still extruded their class. My question is: should we look at how a player performs when he is out of form before selecting him for internationals, or a purple patch (as in the case of Babar Azam in test cricket) is all that is required?

Meanwhile, KRL’s Sadaf Hussain — who was the top wicket-taker last time around — is rearing to go once more, especially considering his poor run in the recently concluded Quaid-e-Azam Trophy, where . “I wasn’t able to get a lot of wickets in the longest format but I will be trying to top the charts once more in the one-day games.”

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1265477/pakistans-premier-50-tournament-kicks-off/

 

[asfandyar]

tbf Fawad alam is over-rated. I myself was his ardent fan. He couldn't score against bangladeshi bowlers in 2015. Yet we wanna think that he is somehow gonna set the world on fire if he is gonna be selected. Plus he is on wrong side of 30 now.

Did he deserve a longer rope? Yes but let us not forget that other than afridi's clique nobody got longer rope during the past 6-8 years. That is how the system is & it isn't going anywhere.

Why do you think Misbah & younis were so damn consistent these past years? Bro the moment they would go 3 innings without substantial scoring, people would start murmurring to axe them. The same people who could tolerate afridi for 20 years, umar akmal/shehzad for last 7 years.

I don't recall him playing a test in Bangladesh? Or maybe I don't watch enough cricket

 

[Kakar]

Meanwhile, KRL’s Sadaf Hussain — who was the top wicket-taker last time around — is rearing to go once more, especially considering his poor run in the recently concluded Quaid-e-Azam Trophy, where . “I wasn’t able to get a lot of wickets in the longest format but I will be trying to top the charts once more in the one-day games.”

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1265477/pakistans-premier-50-tournament-kicks-off/

I think he needs a stellar tournament to be back in spotlight. It was a disappointing first class season for him. If he had played all games, he still could have finished in top 8 wicket takers though. But in the 50 over tournament, he should aim to top the charts or finish in top 3 at the very least. In that way, he might get noticed by Inzi, although chances are very low considering past history.

 

[asfandyar]

?

All those guys have been selected on merit. Babar and Sami are the best youngsters in Pakistan, if you think there is someone better then them in our domestic setup then you are hallucinating.

Now a player doesn't perform at international level then its not the selectors fault

Dropping a player doesn't necessarily mean the new comer will perform.

Babar has been selected as a number 3 on potential rather than merit. Please get your facts straight.

 

[godzilla]

totally agree with the op. facts are facts, and statistics are relevant when there is a large sample size as there is here.

dont mean to distract the thread, but theres a lot of meat on the bones for this argument here:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-us-about-our-test-team&p=8753922#post8753922

 

[Hawkeye]

Some people just can't stop watching cricket on spreadsheets.

If there's someone with real skills out there, he shines. Asif is world class, just one domestic tournament and everyone knows how he's controlling that seam.

Need more Asif and Amir types, enough with Sadafs.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Some people just can't stop watching cricket on spreadsheets.

If there's someone with real skills out there, he shines. Asif is world class, just one domestic tournament and everyone knows how he's controlling that seam.

Need more Asif and Amir types, enough with Sadafs.

In form Sadaf is a good bowler.

In form Sadaf ≠ In form Abass, Tabish & Mir


Because of these things :

1. Better Control on Line & Length

2. 6'4 height (bounce)


This does not mean inform Sadaf = Asif


Asif is a league ahead.

 

[asfandyar]

Some people just can't stop watching cricket on spreadsheets.

If there's someone with real skills out there, he shines. Asif is world class, just one domestic tournament and everyone knows how he's controlling that seam.

Need more Asif and Amir types, enough with Sadafs.

The question is not about who is world class or who is not. The question is about having a systematic approach in place to funnel the talent into the international team, and if you have to adopt a haphazard approach, why have the system in the first place?

Have a look at Fawad's numbers in tests (not FC). http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/40250.html What you need to look at his average. I know there is a dot in that number, just ignore it and consider the number on the left of that dot. It is 41. That means Fawad has scored 41 runs for every inning he has played on average.

That is a good number given how sparse he has been played, and how many more chances a mediocre player like Umar Amin, who is coincidentally your favorite, has managed to harvest.

 

[New Yorker]

Fawad averages 55 and Sadaf averages 23 in the recently concluded tournament. I heard news from different sources that both had lost interest in domestics because of the constant oversight despite persistent performance.

Yet both manage to average comfortable above many of their batchmates. If this not a testament to their class, I don't know what is.

Posters here often defend their favorite players' poor performance in the domestics by citing reasons such as "seems to have lost interest", "seems to have an injury", "the captain played him at the wrong position" and "he was not utilized properly".

These two players have fulfilled almost all roles in domestics/internationals, played as opener, one down etc and still extruded their class. My question is: should we look at how a player performs when he is out of form before selecting him for internationals, or a purple patch (as in the case of Babar Azam in test cricket) is all that is required?

Sadaf's form this season does not help him, and I have been his biggest advocate. I can see how others might be selected over him, but I would like this to be players who have actually performed as well as him for a couple of seasons. Like Pasha or Abbas. Not another Rahat type selection. Forget for a moment that we are talking about any particular player. The names really aren't important. It is generally speaking a poor thing if a domestic cricketing system does not graduate into its international team players who have broken all manner of domestic records, and for long periods of time have looked a class above the rest of the pack. It is just shoddy if the players under consideration have also done things scored 168 on debut and been player of the series in two A tours. While the national team features largely players who have performed worse than these up and comers in domestics. The stupid debate to have is whether these players would really be any good on the international stage, whether they have technique or pace or what have you. No selection system can see the future or operate on 100 % certainty. But good system should at the very least know what it cannot know, and give due credence to actual performance. And there certainly are enough signs to give them a run. It is not the end of the world if they underperform in 5-7 Tests, after which you drop them. It is rather more regrettable if you fail to avail yourself of a potential world class player, simply because the selectors were too scared to take a small risk. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

[Khan12]

Investing in Azhar, Asad and Babar, over Fawad, is beyond me. And sticking with a rubbish bowler like Rahat Ali, is also beyond me. Sadaf should have played this series against Australia.

Our selectors have always been illiterate.

Babar is 100 times the player fawad can ever be.

 

[asfandyar]

Babar is 100 times the player fawad can ever be.

If you are implying Fawad is mediocre, 100 x mediocrity is still mediocrity

 

[Hasan123]

If Fawad played on that pitch Babar did for his 90 vs NZ, Fawad wouldn't have got to 30. He doesn't have the ability to face quality fast bowling. Look at the performances and fitness levels of Rahat,Sohail,and Imran will tell you about the quality of bowlers we have in domestic cricket, so don't take his stats to seriously.

 

[azimiqbal]

If Fawad played on that pitch Babar did for his 90 vs NZ, Fawad wouldn't have got to 30. He doesn't have the ability to face quality fast bowling. Look at the performances and fitness levels of Rahat,Sohail,and Imran will tell you about the quality of bowlers we have in domestic cricket, so don't take his stats to seriously.

Did Fawad Alam not get a 160 odd on a lively track opening the batting against Sri Lanka?

Fawad alam has only been given chance in ODI when he is actually a test player.

He reminds me of Chanderpaul, not pretty too watch but highly effective.

At the end of the day what the point of first class cricket

 

[Justcrazy]

To be honest if first class is not the criteria to judge , why have first class games ?

Players performing there , deserve some chances.

 

[New Yorker]

If Fawad played on that pitch Babar did for his 90 vs NZ, Fawad wouldn't have got to 30. He doesn't have the ability to face quality fast bowling. Look at the performances and fitness levels of Rahat,Sohail,and Imran will tell you about the quality of bowlers we have in domestic cricket, so don't take his stats to seriously.

To know the quality of any player in domestic cricket you would actually have to test them. Fawad was and scored 168 on debut and averages 41. Anywhere else in the world that means he gets a run.

Yes fitness is a problem but Sohail just took consecutive 5fers in England. Imram averages 28 bowling mostly in the UAE. Both are very serviceable bowlers.

They have received hardly any chances compared to mediocre performers like Rahat. Who was never dominant on the FC scene like Sohail, Sadaf, Abbas or Pasha. He just did well for a season and a half and got lots of support from the infinitely wise Waqar.

 

[Junaids]

At the end of the day, Asif bowled three of the four world class spells in this year's QEA.

And Salman Butt won the Final with his batting, and was also head and shoulders above all other batsmen as the level got higher at the business end of the tournament.

 

[TQ89]

The one day series where we got whitewashed by Bangladesh. It happened just after 2015 WC