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Explained: Saudi Arabia’s ban on the Tablighi and Da’wah group

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Saudi Arabia has banned the Tablighi and Da’wah group, also known as Al Ahbab, calling it a 'danger to society'. A look at the roots of this group, which is active in more than 150 countries and is the largest Islamic missionary movement.

Saudi Arabia has banned the Tablighi and Da’wah group, also known as Al Ahbab, calling it ‘danger to society and one of the gates of terrorism’. In a tweet on December 6, the country’s Ministry of Islamic Affairs said, “His Excellency the Minister of Islamic Affairs, Dr.#Abdullatif Al_Alsheikh directed the mosques’ preachers and the mosques that held Friday prayer temporary to allocate the next Friday sermon 5/6/1443 H to warn against (the Tablighi and Da’wah group) which is called (Al Ahbab)”.

The tweet mentioned that the minister has directed that the sermon cover topics including declaration of “the misguidance, deviation and danger of this group, and that it is one of the gates of terrorism, even if they claim otherwise”, to mention their prominent mistakes, to mention their “danger to society” and a statement that affiliation with partisan groups “including (the Tablighi and Da’wah Group) is prohibited in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”

However, it is unclear if the government’s tweets were directed at the Tablighi Jamaat, the Sunni Islamic missionary movement that was launched in Mewat in 1927 by the Islamic scholar and teacher Maulana Muhammad Ilyas, who coined the slogan “Oh Muslims! Become Muslims”. It is also unclear why the Saudi Arabian government has banned the group and if the ban has been initiated because of certain ideas and interpretations of the Tablighi Jamaat.

n 2013, Kazakhstan banned the Tablighi Jamaat and designated it as extremist. Radio Free Europe reported at the time that the court cited the ideas that were propagated by the group but did not make clear which specific ideas were found to be extremist. The movement is also prohibited in countries including Iran, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

The Islamic Seminary Darul Uloom Deoband criticised the Saudi Arabian government’s move in a statement on December 12. It said the allegations of terrorism are baseless.

The allegations of shirk (polytheism), bidat (religious innovations/inventions) and terrorism are meaningless and unfounded, it said, and has requested the Saudi Arabian government to review its decision on this matter and refrain from taking such an action against the Tablighi Jamaat.

The Tablighi Jamaat movement
The roots of this movement — which is active in more than 150 countries and is the largest Islamic missionary movement today — can be traced back to the Deobandi tradition, which originated from the Darul Uloom madrasa in Deoband, the book “Islam on the Move: Tablighi Jama’at in Southeast Asia” by Farish A Noor notes.

The book also says that the Tablighis were mainly lay missionaries who sought to transform Muslim society and bring Muslims back to the path of truth. The movement mainly functions with the aim of reaching out to ordinary Muslims to revive their faith in the religion and guide them on matters of ritual, dress and personal behaviour. “Without over-particularising the Tablighi Jama’at, it can be said that the movement is somewhat special in the sense that unlike many other missionary movements the world over, it seeks to convert not those outside the faith community but rather those within,” the book says.

According to the Pew Research Center, while most followers of the Tablighi Jamaat are primarily interested in matters of personal piety and spiritual self-renewal, some of them have been accused of having ties to radical networks. For instance, the “Shoe bomber” Richard Reid, who in 2001 tried to set off a bomb on a commercial aircraft, and John Walker Lindh, the American citizen captured by US forces with Taliban soldiers in Afghanistan in 2001, spent time in Tablighi circles as per Pew.

An 2013 article published by the Jamestown Foundation says that the Tablighi Jamaat has “traditionally eschewed politics and concentrated its efforts on reinforcing the faith of Muslims”. It goes on to say that while many followers of terrorist and extremist groups have reportedly attended meetings run by the group, widespread jihadist preaching and ties to terrorist activities have not been identified yet.

Further, while the movement is connected to the Deobandi movement of Sunni Islam, “it has much in common with the Wahhabi style of Islam that is associated with Saudi Arabia’s religious establishment. However, Deobandi doctrine tends to be more flexible than Wahhabism and is more accepting of other Islamic approaches, such as Sufism,” Pew notes. Because of its identity, some Muslim schools of thought may view the Tablighi Jamaat as having a worldview different from them and therefore have developed apprehensions and certain notions about the Tablighis.

“In those cases where the Tablighi has come under the microscope of other Muslims who may harbour misgivings about them, there is likewise the assumption that there is such a thing as the Tablighi Jama’at, and that it has an identity that sets it apart from other Muslim groups,” Noor writes in his book.

https://indianexpress.com/article/e...i-arabia-ban-on-tablighi-dawah-group-7670780/
 
Not a single Pakistani mullah took to the streets to protest this decision! If a European country had done such an act, millions would be on the streets and tens of cops would have been killed and hundreds of shops torced.
 
Not a single Pakistani mullah took to the streets to protest this decision! If a European country had done such an act, millions would be on the streets and tens of cops would have been killed and hundreds of shops torced.

This is the group that celebrity maulvi tariq jameel is affiliated with .
 
Tablighi Jamaat are harmless in the context of terrorism and violence but quite harmful as they take people down a path to laziness, glorified begging and religious fairy tales. Most of their speeches are about stuff that is happening in heaven or dreams that their original founders/elders had.

Don;t agree with the ban but TJ is a complete waste of time.
 
Not a single Pakistani mullah took to the streets to protest this decision! If a European country had done such an act, millions would be on the streets and tens of cops would have been killed and hundreds of shops torced.

Most PK mullahs that come on streets are brelvi. Why would they protest against a deobandi group being banned?

Plenty of groups are banned in Europe but people arent killed in Pak over it. You need to stop being a sensationalist as its difficult to take you seriously.
 
I think this ban has something to do with theological differences. Terrorism is just an excuse.
 
House of Saud doesn't like threats to their monopoly over Islam and their kingdom.
 
House of Saud doesn't like threats to their monopoly over Islam and their kingdom.

It was never about Islam and it was only about thre kingdom. whether they like it or not, they will face consequences for the so called change they are making from last few years ...... Mark my words ..... we are gonna see the downfall of House of Saud ......
 
Not a single Pakistani mullah took to the streets to protest this decision! If a European country had done such an act, millions would be on the streets and tens of cops would have been killed and hundreds of shops torced.

Because Saudi Arabia and China have figured out that every Muslim country has a price. One pays it through subsidized oil, and the other through basement rate loans. Saudi Arabia offers other emblematic advantages too due to their history with the religion.
 
It was never about Islam and it was only about thre kingdom. whether they like it or not, they will face consequences for the so called change they are making from last few years ...... Mark my words ..... we are gonna see the downfall of House of Saud ......

lol Fix Pakistan and its economy first before trying to bring downfall of the hand which feeds your nation.
Or stop taking loans from them. Downfall lol.. beyond delusional.
 
lol Fix Pakistan and its economy first before trying to bring downfall of the hand which feeds your nation.
Or stop taking loans from them. Downfall lol.. beyond delusional.

did i quote you or what ? why are you feeling the heat from my comment ?

delusion is the person who dont even know anything about KSA or Islamic history .

i am saying this becoz of the Prophecy, as we all know indians wont believe it, but we muslims do. if you have doubt, just google yourself.

and about loan, do you even know about who provides the internal security to house of saud in the kingdom ? how many Pak army personals and intel involved thre ? no you dont know jack.

why the house of saud keep giving us "loans" and free oil ? ever wonder why ? just look at what a bunch of unknown houthi rebels are doing every month inside KSA. you will know the real Auqaat of KSA Army and thre potential. do you know whos the Military Commander of The Islamic Military Counter Terrorism Coalition ? Let me tell you, he is not an Arab. he is from the country you hate the most in this world.
Lol back at you mate.

you just look from your media and outside world lenses. you dont know about house of saud history nor do you know anything about inside frictions between family members.

do you even know the internal politics of Kingdom ? do you know whos the Grand mufti of KSA ? do you know how much power Grand mufti wield in his hand ? any idea ? none. nata. zilch. so you should better to eff your mouth off before commenting on my post. understand budy ?

and we dont give a damn to house of saud, we only care about two holy cities. thats all.
 
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lol Fix Pakistan and its economy first before trying to bring downfall of the hand which feeds your nation.
Or stop taking loans from them. Downfall lol.. beyond delusional.

The house of saud has the money of oil, the mosques of mecca and medina and the security of the US umbrella.

While pakistan begs them for oil and bailouts.

And don't fall for pakistan protects sauds, the Americans do it not pakistan.
 
The house of saud has the money of oil, the mosques of mecca and medina and the security of the US umbrella.

While pakistan begs them for oil and bailouts.

And don't fall for pakistan protects sauds, the Americans do it not pakistan.




maybe you know more thn us. so may i ask you who were giving the internal security of Al-Saud family members in past and present ?
Lol about Oil. even ISIS got the hands on Oil few years ago in ME.

now come to Islamic history, care to explain where is the name written of Al-Saud in any religious text book of Islam ? can you name me one ?

in Islamic history, Mecca and Medina had seen more thn dozens of rulers, but none of them were al-saud.
but as i said before, indians knowledge about Islamic history scks big time.

atleast tell me whats the meaning of SAUDIA ARABIA ? can you ? find me the name of Saudia Arabia in any text book of Islamic history.

and you should also mention, which Islamic text book says that Al-saud will be the only family to rule over these two holy cities in future ?

as i said before you indians dont know jack.

its just the begining.

The United States has removed its most advanced missile defence system and Patriot batteries from Saudi Arabia in recent weeks, even as the kingdom faced continued air attacks from Yemen’s Houthi rebels.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/11/us-pulls-missile-defences-in-saudi-arabia-amid-yemen-attacks
 
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lol Fix Pakistan and its economy first before trying to bring downfall of the hand which feeds your nation.
Or stop taking loans from them. Downfall lol.. beyond delusional.

No need to bring Pakistan into it. He didnt mention the downfall of Saudia will come from Pakistan did he?

The Saudi regime is propped up by the Americans and has massive internal support because of the Madkhali belief of Wahabis which means that a ruler cannot be criticised as long as he is remains Muslim.The Saudi Kings did a deal with the religious authorities that they will rule according to Wahabism as long and that the Mullahs will keep silent as long as that remains the case.

However apart from an upper class section of the population, most of Saudis are deeply confused that what they have been taught and held sacred for a long time, the current regime is saying it doesn't matter and was a mistake.

This will have massive implications. I don't think you are a Muslim so you are a bit naive to what the Saudi style of Islam was. It was strict and draconian with no flexibility.

Without getting stuck into the legitimacy of the example ( I know it isnt correct but just trying to make a point), imagine the Hindu leaders who are against beef eating at the moment, and massive speeches about how beef eating is wrong, suddenly start chomping big macs and telling their followers its ok.

In such a scenario what do you think will happen?

Times that scenario by 1000x because Saudis have exported a brand of harshness that you cannot compromise with. Now the adherents of that philosophy in the more extreme cases are like Daesh, ISIS and the Taliban.

You think they will suddenly accept that what they were told is black is now white?

Somethings gotta give, espicially with a massive Pro Iran section shia population in some areas and Iran is licking its lips having spanked Saudis in Yemen, Iraq and Syria. In my personal opinion the House of Saud will survive but they will have to use force against their own population.
 
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]


Islamabad and Saudi Arabia have long had a close military and security relationship, with troops from Pakistan's large and combat-hardened army regularly deployed for training Saudi soldiers. Although the kingdom, like other Arab Gulf countries, does not make the numbers public, experts say there are as many as 70,000 Pakistanis serving across the Saudi military services at any one time.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/pakistan-in-talks-with-saudi-arabia-to-send-combat-troops-to-protect-the-kingdom-1.44396
 
What's amusing is that after decades of pushing their own fundamentalist version of Islam and funding their madrassas in Pakistan, the Saudis have suddenly decided we'll turn liberal now and had huge Justin Bieber and Salman Khan concerts yesterday where a 80k crowd thronged the venue, much to the dismay of many Pakistanis.
 
What's amusing is that after decades of pushing their own fundamentalist version of Islam and funding their madrassas in Pakistan, the Saudis have suddenly decided we'll turn liberal now and had huge Justin Bieber and Salman Khan concerts yesterday where a 80k crowd thronged the venue, much to the dismay of many Pakistanis.

I don't think the TJ ever benefited from Saudi funding, they have a different school of thought I believe TJ is more in line with Egypt's Ikhwan so the house of saud were never fans of them. KSA is still funding fundamentalists across the Muslim world, why do you think Syria is still a mess?
 
I don't think the TJ ever benefited from Saudi funding, they have a different school of thought I believe TJ is more in line with Egypt's Ikhwan so the house of saud were never fans of them. KSA is still funding fundamentalists across the Muslim world, why do you think Syria is still a mess?

Nah I was not talking about TJ. I was just talking about the irony of the Saudis pushing their fundamentalist brand of Islam through funding of countless madrassas across the muslim world and making those muslims very conservative in their beliefs, while they themselves have suddenly decided one fine day that they'll turn liberal and are hosting Bieber and Bollywood concerts in Riyadh.
 
Nah I was not talking about TJ. I was just talking about the irony of the Saudis pushing their fundamentalist brand of Islam through funding of countless madrassas across the muslim world and making those muslims very conservative in their beliefs, while they themselves have suddenly decided one fine day that they'll turn liberal and are hosting Bieber and Bollywood concerts in Riyadh.

Welcome to the world, everyone is a hypocrite and supports contradictory policies. You might ask why did Hollywood actor Ronald Reagen support the Afghan Mujh and help radicalize them when his own lifestyle and that of 99.99% of American is nothing like that. Govts will support anything for their interests even if it contradicts their values or policies they would have for themselves.
 
No need to bring Pakistan into it. He didnt mention the downfall of Saudia will come from Pakistan did he?

The Saudi regime is propped up by the Americans and has massive internal support because of the Madkhali belief of Wahabis which means that a ruler cannot be criticised as long as he is remains Muslim.The Saudi Kings did a deal with the religious authorities that they will rule according to Wahabism as long and that the Mullahs will keep silent as long as that remains the case.

However apart from an upper class section of the population, most of Saudis are deeply confused that what they have been taught and held sacred for a long time, the current regime is saying it doesn't matter and was a mistake.

This will have massive implications. I don't think you are a Muslim so you are a bit naive to what the Saudi style of Islam was. It was strict and draconian with no flexibility.

Without getting stuck into the legitimacy of the example ( I know it isnt correct but just trying to make a point), imagine the Hindu leaders who are against beef eating at the moment, and massive speeches about how beef eating is wrong, suddenly start chomping big macs and telling their followers its ok.

In such a scenario what do you think will happen?

Times that scenario by 1000x because Saudis have exported a brand of harshness that you cannot compromise with. Now the adherents of that philosophy in the more extreme cases are like Daesh, ISIS and the Taliban.

You think they will suddenly accept that what they were told is black is now white?

Somethings gotta give, espicially with a massive Pro Iran section shia population in some areas and Iran is licking its lips having spanked Saudis in Yemen, Iraq and Syria. In my personal opinion the House of Saud will survive but they will have to use force against their own population.

KSA is house of Saud controlled. The loan approvals for Pakistan directly comes from them. So wishing for a downfall of someone who is directly responsible for keeping things afloat by lending a couple of billion dollars is beyond delusional.
Do not ask for those loans then.
 
KSA is house of Saud controlled. The loan approvals for Pakistan directly comes from them. So wishing for a downfall of someone who is directly responsible for keeping things afloat by lending a couple of billion dollars is beyond delusional.
Do not ask for those loans then.

Why are you guys so obsessed with loans between sovereign governments? :)) y'all bring your weird cultural complexes into every geopolitical debate.
 
Why are you guys so obsessed with loans between sovereign governments? :)) y'all bring your weird cultural complexes into every geopolitical debate.

Geo Politics is linked with transactions, and transactions means exchange of money.
So, once again, wishing ill of House of Saud, which many Pakistanis do is pretty delusional given that the Saudi money is keeping some of the economy afloat.
 
KSA is house of Saud controlled. The loan approvals for Pakistan directly comes from them. So wishing for a downfall of someone who is directly responsible for keeping things afloat by lending a couple of billion dollars is beyond delusional.
Do not ask for those loans then.

I think you are a bit obsessed with Pakistan and unfortunately can't be taken seriously.

People are free to discuss geo politics however they wish.

If we restrict peoples conversations based on where their ancestry is derived from then the world would become a quiet place.
 
Why are you guys so obsessed with loans between sovereign governments? :)) y'all bring your weird cultural complexes into every geopolitical debate.

They literally make things up and create arguments. Nobody has wished for a downfall but said that it could happen. The same way that people speculate about most countries.

Yet these Indians want to restrict our speech without understanding the irony of nobody questioning their freedom of speech to speak ill of Pakistan on a Pakistani platform.

This logic is astounding.
 
As far as I am aware tablighi jammat have never been political or caused for uprisings or backed militancy in pakistan.

They are a spiritual group and go around asking people to go on khafilahs and do ibadat read namaz etc basically a form of spiritual puritanism to rid themselves of sins and to get closer to God.

The ban is ludicrous.

What next will dawat islami ilyas qadri the green totay barelvis be banned next for organising mehfils reading durood sharif and naats .

This looks more of an attack on religion and to distant people from a spiritual existence .

does anyone really believe likes of tariq jameel is a danger to society because that's what the Saudis are saying.

But it's OK to have a chris brown concert in Riyadh or Halloween parties promoting vulgarity .
 
did i quote you or what ? why are you feeling the heat from my comment ?

delusion is the person who dont even know anything about KSA or Islamic history .

i am saying this becoz of the Prophecy, as we all know indians wont believe it, but we muslims do. if you have doubt, just google yourself.

and about loan, do you even know about who provides the internal security to house of saud in the kingdom ? how many Pak army personals and intel involved thre ? no you dont know jack.

why the house of saud keep giving us "loans" and free oil ? ever wonder why ? just look at what a bunch of unknown houthi rebels are doing every month inside KSA. you will know the real Auqaat of KSA Army and thre potential. do you know whos the Military Commander of The Islamic Military Counter Terrorism Coalition ? Let me tell you, he is not an Arab. he is from the country you hate the most in this world.
Lol back at you mate.

you just look from your media and outside world lenses. you dont know about house of saud history nor do you know anything about inside frictions between family members.

do you even know the internal politics of Kingdom ? do you know whos the Grand mufti of KSA ? do you know how much power Grand mufti wield in his hand ? any idea ? none. nata. zilch. so you should better to eff your mouth off before commenting on my post. understand budy ?

and we dont give a damn to house of saud, we only care about two holy cities. thats all.

Americans are also providing security and Pakistan is also a gun for hire. It is not a free service provided. It is a transaction where one party is employer, giving salary and another is employer. So, pretty cute on saying that you provide so called security. It is a service provided for an X amount of dollars.
 
They literally make things up and create arguments. Nobody has wished for a downfall but said that it could happen. The same way that people speculate about most countries.

Yet these Indians want to restrict our speech without understanding the irony of nobody questioning their freedom of speech to speak ill of Pakistan on a Pakistani platform.

This logic is astounding.

It was never about Islam and it was only about thre kingdom. whether they like it or not, they will face consequences for the so called change they are making from last few years ...... Mark my words ..... we are gonna see the downfall of House of Saud ......
[MENTION=51465]DeadlyVenom[/MENTION] it was in response to this post. Read up.
 
[MENTION=51465]DeadlyVenom[/MENTION] it was in response to this post. Read up.

Thanks for confirming my point that nobody wished the downfall of House of Saud. Sadly and unfortunately bigots like you will wish to restrict the freedom of speech of people because of their background.

I hope you stand by your principles and refuse to talk about the affairs of other countries.
 
This will have massive implications. I don't think you are a Muslim so you are a bit naive to what the Saudi style of Islam was. It was strict and draconian with no flexibility.

Without getting stuck into the legitimacy of the example ( I know it isnt correct but just trying to make a point), imagine the Hindu leaders who are against beef eating at the moment, and massive speeches about how beef eating is wrong, suddenly start chomping big macs and telling their followers its ok.

In such a scenario what do you think will happen?

Times that scenario by 1000x because Saudis have exported a brand of harshness that you cannot compromise with. Now the adherents of that philosophy in the more extreme cases are like Daesh, ISIS and the Taliban.

You think they will suddenly accept that what they were told is black is now white?

Somethings gotta give, espicially with a massive Pro Iran section shia population in some areas and Iran is licking its lips having spanked Saudis in Yemen, Iraq and Syria. In my personal opinion the House of Saud will survive but they will have to use force against their own population.

Ideologies may be 'draconian and without flexibility', but only on paper. The actual practice can always have scope for flexibility for a society that uses its brains.

The Saudis may be exporting an extremely puritanical and hardline version of Islam, but they are smart enough to know when and where to relax the rules for their own benefit. Those adopting Saudi-style Islam should likewise, not follow it blindly, and know where to draw the line.

Look at the likes of UAE and Oman, even Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. They too are orthodox muslim countries but have put on a liberal facade and even allowed many activities that are considered 'haram' in traditional muslim societies. This is largely so that their trade partners and others that bring them their wealth remain comfortable in dealing with them.

The Saudis could get away with their puritanical Islam as long as the west and the rest of the world needed their oil. Now with alternative forms of energy being explored everywhere and the world working hard to get rid of oil-based fossil fuels, the Saudis have seen the writing on the wall. They are changing as a result, and adopting new, more liberal laws. Their support to hardline muslim groups all over the world will also come to an end.

The followers of the hardline Saudi ideology, whether at home or abroad, will also fall in line once they come to realise how much damage their ideology is likely to cause them.

For the wise, there is nothing called a hardline stance.
 
Ideologies may be 'draconian and without flexibility', but only on paper. The actual practice can always have scope for flexibility for a society that uses its brains.

The Saudis may be exporting an extremely puritanical and hardline version of Islam, but they are smart enough to know when and where to relax the rules for their own benefit. Those adopting Saudi-style Islam should likewise, not follow it blindly, and know where to draw the line.

Look at the likes of UAE and Oman, even Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. They too are orthodox muslim countries but have put on a liberal facade and even allowed many activities that are considered 'haram' in traditional muslim societies. This is largely so that their trade partners and others that bring them their wealth remain comfortable in dealing with them.

The Saudis could get away with their puritanical Islam as long as the west and the rest of the world needed their oil. Now with alternative forms of energy being explored everywhere and the world working hard to get rid of oil-based fossil fuels, the Saudis have seen the writing on the wall. They are changing as a result, and adopting new, more liberal laws. Their support to hardline muslim groups all over the world will also come to an end.

The followers of the hardline Saudi ideology, whether at home or abroad, will also fall in line once they come to realise how much damage their ideology is likely to cause them.

For the wise, there is nothing called a hardline stance.

The Saudi leadership may be smart enough to know the writing is on the wall, but they are only smart because they know the effect it will have on the economic future of the country. So while the liberal elites and business areas will happily welcome the changes, I doubt the conservatives who will gain nothing from any relaxation of rules will be so happy to accommodate.

There is a massive infrastructure within the kingdom such as universities and courts where the backbone of the establishment is made up of this type of hardcore thought and it will take a long time for these people to change.

Religious ideology is a different case altogether and cannot be compared with other ideologies. How will they go back and rephrase the works of previous scholars who declared certian things haram. Those statements were considered incontrovertible and the basis. It's not easy to dismantle an ideology overnight. Will they burn those books that people lived their lives and were told was indisputable?

Saudi is a unique case and can't be compared to the rest of the ME. The majority of those other regimes while being despotic allow full freedom of speech, infact they feared political Islam as a threat to their rule. Saudis on the other hand cultivated and spread it and used it as a justification for their rule.

So while its easy for governments to change tact, its much harder for every day citizens to wake up one day and be told what they held as being sacred was in fact a lie. How will the religious establishment then be able to convince them about things going forward?

There will be interesting times ahead for the House of Saud but I think they will be able to forcefully make dissenters submit. They have already done this by razing the homes of indigenous Bedouins who didn't want the city of NEOM to be constructed on their land.
 
KSA is house of Saud controlled. The loan approvals for Pakistan directly comes from them. So wishing for a downfall of someone who is directly responsible for keeping things afloat by lending a couple of billion dollars is beyond delusional.
Do not ask for those loans then.

KSA has the two mosques and they control who accesses them. They are a sovereign nation state with huge oil money.

They have a military budget many times of pakistan and operate systems like the Eurofighter, F15E, THAAD etc, that pakistan can only dream about. And some pakistanis will beat their chest that they protect the Sauds.

How many bases do Americans have in Ksa?

Do they need Pakistani protection?
 
Americans are also providing security and Pakistan is also a gun for hire. It is not a free service provided. It is a transaction where one party is employer, giving salary and another is employer. So, pretty cute on saying that you provide so called security. It is a service provided for an X amount of dollars.

we were thre before US cme to ME ..... and we will be thre even after they exit ...... we re all over the ME ...... looks like you just wkeup from long sleep .....

if we go by your logic, if its a service fee thn why you and your so called defence expert wont says its as transaction ..... ?

they begged us for security, from 60s till this day , to protect thre precious kingdom before and now from houthi rebels .....
they know US isnt reliable partner when it comes to making defence pact and now US is removing its assets from KSA ...... and we will take advantage of any situation we see fits with our policy ..... the oil money is the security deal between Pak and Kingdom ..... Lol
 
KSA has the two mosques and they control who accesses them. They are a sovereign nation state with huge oil money.

They have a military budget many times of pakistan and operate systems like the Eurofighter, F15E, THAAD etc, that pakistan can only dream about. And some pakistanis will beat their chest that they protect the Sauds.

How many bases do Americans have in Ksa?

Do they need Pakistani protection?

for now THAAD is gone .... Lol. they turn to Pak again and again ....

read post #19 and #20 to gt some knowledge about ground realities in KSA, dont just throw gibberish .....

and i know you can read my post ..... but you never quote me back since 27 feb ..... Lol

btw arent you the one who laugh on my posts 3 years ago when i said US will exit from Afghanistan soon ..... i can find it for you to refresh your memory ...... Lol at the so called expert of geopolitics .....
 
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we were thre before US cme to ME ..... and we will be thre even after they exit ...... we re all over the ME ...... looks like you just wkeup from long sleep .....

if we go by your logic, if its a service fee thn why you and your so called defence expert wont says its as transaction ..... ?

they begged us for security, from 60s till this day , to protect thre precious kingdom before and now from houthi rebels .....
they know US isnt reliable partner when it comes to making defence pact and now US is removing its assets from KSA ...... and we will take advantage of any situation we see fits with our policy ..... the oil money is the security deal between Pak and Kingdom ..... Lol

KSA economy much much better than Pakistan, in fact it drip feeds 3-4 Billion dollars of loans once in while as it wishes on its own terms and conditions, which Pakistan just accepts.

KSA has much better relations with most of the world powers, fully backed by USA/European Powers and India, as compared to Pakistan.

But but, KSA begs to Pakistan for security.. This is beyond delusional.

If I hire a security guard to guard my building and pay him a salary, that does not mean I begged him.
He is being paid to do a job.
 
Thanks for confirming my point that nobody wished the downfall of House of Saud. Sadly and unfortunately bigots like you will wish to restrict the freedom of speech of people because of their background.

I hope you stand by your principles and refuse to talk about the affairs of other countries.

Mark my words ..... we are gonna see the downfall of House of Saud ......
That is a wish.. A delusional one but still a wish.
House of Saud has plenty of money and now they are diversifying that at global scale.
Pakistan meanwhile will be taking out its 13th IMF loan. The wish should be to improve economy as compared to predicting downfall of another major economic player in the world.
 
KSA economy much much better than Pakistan, in fact it drip feeds 3-4 Billion dollars of loans once in while as it wishes on its own terms and conditions, which Pakistan just accepts.

KSA has much better relations with most of the world powers, fully backed by USA/European Powers and India, as compared to Pakistan.

But but, KSA begs to Pakistan for security.. This is beyond delusional.

If I hire a security guard to guard my building and pay him a salary, that does not mean I begged him.
He is being paid to do a job.

KSA has a mutual defence treaty with USA since 1951 and US made its first base in Dhaharan in KSA in 1945 and operated it ti 1962.

So USA was providing KSA security even before pakistan's existence.
 
KSA economy much much better than Pakistan, in fact it drip feeds 3-4 Billion dollars of loans once in while as it wishes on its own terms and conditions, which Pakistan just accepts.

KSA has much better relations with most of the world powers, fully backed by USA/European Powers and India, as compared to Pakistan.

But but, KSA begs to Pakistan for security.. This is beyond delusional.

If I hire a security guard to guard my building and pay him a salary, that does not mean I begged him.
He is being paid to do a job.

KSA has a mutual defence treaty with USA since 1951 and US made its first base in Dhaharan in KSA in 1945 and operated it ti 1962.

So USA was providing KSA security even before pakistan's existence.

so where were US during when KSA needs them ? why they sign the defence pact with Pakistan in 60s ? where were the US troops ?

Pakistan had deployed almost 70k troops in KSA during 60s to 90s and still many troops are thre in thousands, so why didnt US sent thre troops if they are a reliable partner, why KSA need Pakistan 70k troops thn ?

US is not reliable partner as i said before, if they sign treaty with some countries, doesnt mean they will fullfil it, they can pullout whenever they want, and no body can ask questions to them. just like they did with Afghanistan, Iraq and other countries ..... THAAD is an example .... Lol
KSA knows it, thats why they need Pakistan for thre Protection .....

since you both know so much about KSA tell me if the Two holy cities gt attacked in future, which they ha in past, which country's Army will safeguard the Two holy cities. i need to know about this specific question from both of you ..... :)
 
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Mark my words ..... we are gonna see the downfall of House of Saud ......
That is a wish.. A delusional one but still a wish.
House of Saud has plenty of money and now they are diversifying that at global scale.
Pakistan meanwhile will be taking out its 13th IMF loan. The wish should be to improve economy as compared to predicting downfall of another major economic player in the world.

i dont think its called as wish. maybe he is explaining it as its a Prophecy mentioned these sign. the fall of Arab world. Its mean including the house of saud and MiddleEast.
non-believers dont believe on our Prophet (PBUH) Prophecy.but we muslims do.
and all of them came true one by one till this day.
 
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Tablighi Jamaat are harmless in the context of terrorism and violence but quite harmful as they take people down a path to laziness, glorified begging and religious fairy tales. Most of their speeches are about stuff that is happening in heaven or dreams that their original founders/elders had.

Don;t agree with the ban but TJ is a complete waste of time.
They really have been at the forefront of disintegrating Pakistani society in the last couple of Decades
 
i dont think its called as wish. maybe he is explaining it as its a Prophecy mentioned these sign. the fall of Arab world. Its mean including the house of saud and MiddleEast.
non-believers dont believe on our Prophet (PBUH) Prophecy.but we muslims do.
and all of them came true one by one till this day.

I see. Prophecy is statement about what is going to happen in the future. Since there is no way to guarantee the future, it is something to believe in/wish for that the event will definitely happen.. ergo A Wish.
 
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As far as I am aware tablighi jammat have never been political or caused for uprisings or backed militancy in pakistan.

They are a spiritual group and go around asking people to go on khafilahs and do ibadat read namaz etc basically a form of spiritual puritanism to rid themselves of sins and to get closer to God.

The ban is ludicrous.

What next will dawat islami ilyas qadri the green totay barelvis be banned next for organising mehfils reading durood sharif and naats .

This looks more of an attack on religion and to distant people from a spiritual existence .

does anyone really believe likes of tariq jameel is a danger to society because that's what the Saudis are saying.

But it's OK to have a chris brown concert in Riyadh or Halloween parties promoting vulgarity .

Tbh the celebrity obsessed Tariq jameel is a danger to society
 
so where were US during when KSA needs them ? why they sign the defence pact with Pakistan in 60s ? where were the US troops ?

Pakistan had deployed almost 70k troops in KSA during 60s to 90s and still many troops are thre in thousands, so why didnt US sent thre troops if they are a reliable partner, why KSA need Pakistan 70k troops thn ?

US is not reliable partner as i said before, if they sign treaty with some countries, doesnt mean they will fullfil it, they can pullout whenever they want, and no body can ask questions to them. just like they did with Afghanistan, Iraq and other countries ..... THAAD is an example .... Lol
KSA knows it, thats why they need Pakistan for thre Protection .....

since you both know so much about KSA tell me if the Two holy cities gt attacked in future, which they ha in past, which country's Army will safeguard the Two holy cities. i need to know about this specific question from both of you ..... :)

As soon as millions of refugee start flowing out, it no longer remains internal. This comment is off Topic.
Now, On Topic, KSA will be well protected given the resources and money they have at their disposal,
plus, Americans and Europeans are strong allies. So i don't think they would need much help from else where.

at the bold part. give me the answer of that .... :)
 
Warning to all, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with India. All off-topic posts will be deleted.
 
As soon as millions of refugee start flowing out, it no longer remains internal. This comment is off Topic.
Now, On Topic, KSA will be well protected given the resources and money they have at their disposal,
plus, Americans and Europeans are strong allies. So i don't think they would need much help from else where.

During the 1979 seize of the grand mosque in saudi arabia, the Saudi forces asked the French special forces GIGN to assist. The GIGN commandos went to Saudi, converted temporarily into Muslims and then stormed the mosque with Saudi forces and freed it from the insurgents.

Saudis have huge resources and have NATO allies.
 
i dont think its called as wish. maybe he is explaining it as its a Prophecy mentioned these sign. the fall of Arab world. Its mean including the house of saud and MiddleEast.
non-believers dont believe on our Prophet (PBUH) Prophecy.but we muslims do.
and all of them came true one by one till this day.

No offense but it might be in your religious text or belief system and I respect that sentiment but it is dumb if you are using that to derive political analysis from that.

Also is there a timeline on that prophecy? This could happen today, tomorrow or a 1000 years from now. I would focus on today. Also I don’t think Pakistanis have the copyright on preaching how Islam should be followed to other nations. There are a lot of flaws inherently first. A little naach-gaana is way low down on the list of sins compared to what goes on in Pakistan. So, I wouldn’t be salivating at the prospects of the destruction of other countries.
 
NATO/Saudi army along with American help.

During the 1979 seize of the grand mosque in saudi arabia, the Saudi forces asked the French special forces GIGN to assist. The GIGN commandos went to Saudi, converted temporarily into Muslims and then stormed the mosque with Saudi forces and freed it from the insurgents.

Saudis have huge resources and have NATO allies.

so only 4 members of special forces eliminate and capture all 200 to 300 terrorists ?

becoz you cant converted the whole GIGN force . France's involvement was more like of a consultative one, while Pakistan played a key role in this Opt long with the SANG.

you need a proper muslim force to enter inside Grand mosque , becoz its not allowed for non-muslims. and you cant take out upto 300 terrorist with only 4 GIGN commandos,

it might work in Bollywood movies but not in real life. Understand.

Pakistani troops have been deployed in the Saudi kingdom before. Pakistani military engagement started when its special services participated in the operation to eliminate fundamentalist elements that seized the Grand Mosque in Makkah in 1979. Afterwards, tens of thousands of Pakistani troops remained in Saudi Arabia during the Iran-Iraq war. Most were recalled after the war ended in 1988 – but a smaller contingent stayed on.

https://theconversation.com/why-pakistan-has-troops-in-saudi-arabia-and-what-it-means-for-the-middle-east-92613
 
No offense but it might be in your religious text or belief system and I respect that sentiment but it is dumb if you are using that to derive political analysis from that.

Also is there a timeline on that prophecy? This could happen today, tomorrow or a 1000 years from now. I would focus on today. Also I don’t think Pakistanis have the copyright on preaching how Islam should be followed to other nations. There are a lot of flaws inherently first. A little naach-gaana is way low down on the list of sins compared to what goes on in Pakistan. So, I wouldn’t be salivating at the prospects of the destruction of other countries.

going by that logic, in 21st century ,why Isreal claimed Jerusalem as its their own land ? because its mention in their religious book ? so israelies must be quite dumb people in your view ?

why they want to build the 3rd temple of solomon there ? because its mention in their religouse book .

now will you call israelis as dumb people ? yes or no ?
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50852379.amp

Read this about the seize of mecca masjid. The GIGN guided the KSA forces. No role of pakistani forces mentioned in it.

When KSA needed military help, they went to NATO not pakistan.

so BBC is become a credible source for you now ? if someone post about kashmir and 27 feb incident, it suddenly falls into spreading lies and bullcrap .....

just becoz BBC didnt mentioned it doesnt mean Pak army werent thre ..... saudis and pakistanis dont talk much about pakistan involvement on official level becoz of iranian revolution 1979 ..... becoz the intel from US about iranian invovlemet in this Op ..... it was classified for long time .....

3 french commandos, capture and killed more thn 300 terrorists .... no backup troops ..... strange seems like bollywood script ......
as i said before, France's involvement was more like of a consultative one, while Pakistan played a key role in this Opt long with the SANG.

you need a proper muslim force to enter inside Grand mosque , becoz its not allowed for non-muslims. and you cant take out upto 300 terrorist with only 3 or 4 GIGN commandos .....

this is the article which mention Pakistani troops were thre ..... and if you go to Mecca or Medina , you will still find Pakistani troops over thre ......

https://theconversation.com/why-pakistan-has-troops-in-saudi-arabia-and-what-it-means-for-the-middle-east-92613

so indians can keep repeating the bullcrap doesnt make it real ..... and we dont give a damn .....
 
NATO/Saudi army along with American help.

https://www.dawn.com/news/503835/thirty-years-on-mecca-mosque-siegereverberates


Here is the pakistani newspaper DAWN on the same siege. No mention of any Pakistani personnel.

The french commandos helped the KSA National Guard and army. Even today the National Guard is responsible for the security of the cities of mecca and Medina.

So few pakistani can keep claiming to be protectors of the Sauds, fact is that Sauds have the NATO to protect them.
 
https://www.dawn.com/news/503835/thirty-years-on-mecca-mosque-siegereverberates


Here is the pakistani newspaper DAWN on the same siege. No mention of any Pakistani personnel.

The french commandos helped the KSA National Guard and army. Even today the National Guard is responsible for the security of the cities of mecca and Medina.

So few pakistani can keep claiming to be protectors of the Sauds, fact is that Sauds have the NATO to protect them.

Dawn also says PAF shot down Su-30 ? so will you believe it thn ?

as i said before, just becoz some media outlets didnt mention Pak army tht doesnt mean Pak army wasnt there ..... it was kept to be secret becoz of Iranian revolution issue from Pak-Saud side on US advice .... i already provide a neutral source and i dont need to indulge further with a person who cant even quote me and give me straight back reply ....

3 french GIGN commandos capturing and killing 300 person, doesnt sounds logical to anyone ..... but whatever floats your boat .....

if a person cant even dare to quote a poster directly thn its mean hes not very confident about his knowledge on the topic ...... :)
looks like my prediction about US exit from Afghan still haunts you .....
 
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The tablighi way of preaching is rather out dated now which is why so many Muslim's don't like them. The self righteousness and pressure tactics may have been successful in the 1970's but today things have changed. It is the Mullah culture that the Saudi's are probably afraid of more then anything else. These tabligi mob are mostly madrassa educated with most of them being illiterate in worldly affairs and comparative religion.

Worse still is what the Saudi's are doing by inviting the likes of Salman Khan to dance in what we consider to be holy land. Pakistan rightfully will defend the holy sites if need be however we are not responsible for the well being of Saudi people or their so called royal families in particular their king Salman.

We have to get over this Ummah rubbish and belief that we Pakistanis are the leaders of the Muslim's. Truthfully those Muslim countries who put their own country first are much more successful then us for this reason. Only we lick the boots of the Arabs.
 
so only 4 members of special forces eliminate and capture all 200 to 300 terrorists ?

becoz you cant converted the whole GIGN force . France's involvement was more like of a consultative one, while Pakistan played a key role in this Opt long with the SANG.

you need a proper muslim force to enter inside Grand mosque , becoz its not allowed for non-muslims. and you cant take out upto 300 terrorist with only 4 GIGN commandos,

it might work in Bollywood movies but not in real life. Understand.



https://theconversation.com/why-pakistan-has-troops-in-saudi-arabia-and-what-it-means-for-the-middle-east-92613

Right. So What you say is real and what evidence/current geo-politics scenario points to is Bollywood stuff.
May be in the 1970s and 1980s Pakistan held some sway with Saudi's.. no longer. It is a one way transactional relationship of asking for money and loans from Pakistan side.
House of Saud Control everything in KSA, they decide who will be on their grounds, and Americans will always protect them. There will be no downfall, the wealth of Saud's is growing along with KSA economy diversifying and opening up a bit more step by step.
 
Right. So What you say is real and what evidence/current geo-politics scenario points to is Bollywood stuff.
May be in the 1970s and 1980s Pakistan held some sway with Saudi's.. no longer. It is a one way transactional relationship of asking for money and loans from Pakistan side.
House of Saud Control everything in KSA, they decide who will be on their grounds, and Americans will always protect them. There will be no downfall, the wealth of Saud's is growing along with KSA economy diversifying and opening up a bit more step by step.

i told in same PP forum few years ago that US will exit Afghanistan very soon ( even before trump agreement to withdraw from Afghanistan , you can dig that thread, it will be here ), and some geo political "expert" from indian side were laughing at my posts. i told them becoz i knw the geo political scenario of that time much better thn some indians over here .

and if i says the House of Saud will fall down becoz its current policies , thn wait for few years, i will bump this thread myself .......
 
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