Female students forced to sit behind fence for Saeed Anwar's speech at Peshawar University

[MenInG]

Female students were forced to stare at a blank screen during a university speech about ‘how to stop worrying and live a happy life’, it has been claimed. The speaker was former cricket star Saeed Anwar who has become an Islamic preacher since retiring in 2003 as one of Pakistan’s highest scoring batsmen.

A source at the University of Peshawar in northern Pakistan, who wishes to remain anonymous, has claimed Anwar requested gender segregation so female students could hear his voice only, in a move typical of orthodox Islam. A picture of the women sitting in rows of seats behind a fence has been slammed as ‘Talibanisation in process’ after going viral on social media.

The source claimed the female students were disappointed the university allowed the segregation to happen but most will remain silent. They told Metro.co.uk: ‘Personally I consider it an act of gender discrimination against the female students which should have not happened at the campus. ‘Universities are supposed to nurture our youth and provide them with equal opportunities regardless of their gender.

‘I consider Saeed Anwar’s request as irrational. The majority of the female students were dressed according to Islamic values. Saeed Anwar speaks at the university, with the fence seen in the background They added: ‘Secluding them in such a manner is ill-treatment and disrespect.’

According to a university press release, a huge number of ‘both male and female’ students and teachers participated in the talk, but it made no mention of the gender divide. It states the subject of Anwar’s speech was about his past life as a celebrity and how religion saved him from depression. He reportedly said: ‘I was also moving in depression. However, I was saved when I reverted to religion. ‘There is no happiness and satisfaction in the material world.’


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/11/fema...ex-cricket-stars-speech-11651147/?ito=cbshare

 

[Ryw]

They need to respect religion and culture, feminism liberalism should be practiced according to given situation of place and scenarios, this pic might be a breaking news in USA and feminists will feel bad about it but in Peshawar thats a norm of their society.

 

[minamino]

This is so discriminatory. It’s sad that it still happens in 2019

 

[moghul]

Moulvis has no right to humiliate females, they should be banned from coming to academic institutions, this is disgusting.

 

[moghul]

They need to respect religion and culture, feminism liberalism should be practiced according to given situation of place and scenarios, this pic might be a breaking news in USA and feminists will feel bad about it but in Peshawar thats a norm of their society.

Please don;t blame the religion and culture for this ridiculous act of humiliating females. Don;t create non-sense things and blame the beautiful and tolerant religion and KP culture for that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They do the same in UK mosques. Usually women are segregated and they listen to the maulvi in a seperate hall. I wouldn't bother complaining to be honest, just don't go, I can't imagine Saeed Anwar's personal story is that riveting.

 

[Rafa]

Please don;t blame the religion and culture for this ridiculous act of humiliating females. Don;t create non-sense things and blame the beautiful and tolerant religion and KP culture for that.

The KP Culture is actually very conservative and backward which needs serious reforms in current era.

 

[moghul]

The KP Culture is actually very conservative and backward which needs serious reforms in current era.

You're misinformed,the only problem is that Moulvis like Fazal-ur-Rehaman and other groups like that have been able to enforce their kind of "culture" to the people. KP culture is very tolerant and very respectful for the females

 

[topspin]

Oh look another Pakistan player, who was brainwashed by the Tableeghi Jamat. ]

 

[minamino]

They do the same in UK mosques. Usually women are segregated and they listen to the maulvi in a seperate hall. I wouldn't bother complaining to be honest, just don't go, I can't imagine Saeed Anwar's personal story is that riveting.

It's not happening in the mosque and the other thing is that in Pakistani institutes, you have to attend such events even if you don't want to. You don't have to defend everything

 

[minamino]

You're misinformed,the only problem is that Moulvis like Fazal-ur-Rehaman and other groups like that have been able to enforce their kind of "culture" to the people. KP culture is very tolerant and very respectful for the females

He is right. KP culture is most probably the most backwards in Pakistan. I went to a few marriages there and there was segregation for males and females.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Oh look another Pakistan player, who was brainwashed by the Tableeghi Jamat. ]

Anyone who changes his life spiritually/religiously (Islam) is brainwashed, but anyone who is atheist/liberal, they are free thinkers and very smart right?

The hate Muslims and the religion islam gets on this forum is disgusting. Too much hate against religion but hey we are liberal and human rights advocates who believe in equality for all.

 

[moghul]

Anyone who changes his life spiritually/religiously (Islam) is brainwashed, but anyone who is atheist/liberal, they are free thinkers and very smart right?

The hate Muslims and the religion islam gets on this forum is disgusting. Too much hate against religion but hey we are liberal and human rights advocates who believe in equality for all.

Nothing wrong with changing ones personal life, but when people like Saeed start imposing their thinking and lifestyle to other muslims and think they are better Muslim than others, that's where problem starts. That's where I do'lt like people like Saeed Awar, who used to be my favorite player.

 

[moghul]

Oh look another Pakistan player, who was brainwashed by the Tableeghi Jamat. ]

Sadly.

 

[topspin]

Anyone who changes his life spiritually/religiously (Islam) is brainwashed, but anyone who is atheist/liberal, they are free thinkers and very smart right?

The hate Muslims and the religion islam gets on this forum is disgusting. Too much hate against religion but hey we are liberal and human rights advocates who believe in equality for all.

So because I detest TJ, this means I advocate liberalism and atheism?

Secondly, I would advise you to watch this:

Perhaps you will now understand how he is brainwashed. This is exactly what TJ fill their heads with.

Next time before you accuse anyone of hating Muslims and Islam, I would kindly advise you not to speak out of ignorance.

 

[topspin]

Nothing wrong with changing ones personal life, but when people like Saeed start imposing their thinking and lifestyle to other muslims and think they are better Muslim than others, that's where problem starts. That's where I do'lt like people like Saeed Awar, who used to be my favorite player.

Sadly.

I'm glad you understand.

The video above epitomises exactly what you said in regard to how Saeed Anwar imposes his thinking and lifestyle in a way that portrays himself as superior Muslim to others.

 

[MenInG]

When Ustad Nauman Ali Khan lectures about Islam - men and women sit in the same room.

One must not fall in the generalization trap.

 

[Kashmirilion]

So because I detest TJ, this means I advocate liberalism and atheism?

Secondly, I would advise you to watch this:

Perhaps you will now understand how he is brainwashed. This is exactly what TJ fill their heads with.

Next time before you accuse anyone of hating Muslims and Islam, I would kindly advise you not to speak out of ignorance.

On Most threads here Islam is bashed I seen your post and thought same again. My bad for misunderstanding your post.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's not happening in the mosque and the other thing is that in Pakistani institutes, you have to attend such events even if you don't want to. You don't have to defend everything

If you can't read then don't make ignorant comments. There was nothing in my post other than an observation, far from defending anything I was dismissing both the speaker and his content.

Saeed Anwar is a preacher now, and is preaching religious sermons, so regardless of whether he was in a mosque, it was effectively the same thing.

 

[topspin]

On Most threads here Islam is bashed I seen your post and thought same again. My bad for misunderstanding your post.

It's all good, I would have said the same if I felt someone was bashing Islam on here.

 

[sshakir411]

Pakistanis have been butchering Islam since 1947. Our religious folks mistake Arab customs for Islam. This is a prime example.

Someone should ask Saeed bhai why men and women are allowed to pray and be in the same vicinity at the house of God?

 

[mgtow]

Men and women are not supposed to be together in the same segregation. Considering there is lots of mingling nowadays, Saeed Anwar is being cautious following Islamic etiquettes.

However, men and women, albeit strangers, do walk together around the Hajj. That is something to think about.

 

[IMMY69]

Maybe the mullahs should sit behind a screen and let the people sit together...
Oh god forbid the sins!!

The sins the sins..

Hell fire awaits me... join me

 

[IMMY69]

Men and women are not supposed to be together in the same segregation. Considering there is lots of mingling nowadays, Saeed Anwar is being cautious following Islamic etiquettes.

However, men and women, albeit strangers, do walk together around the Hajj. That is something to think about.

How dare you say that!!!!
Where does God say this?

You are destined

 

[IMMY69]

Pakistanis have been butchering Islam since 1947. Our religious folks mistake Arab customs for Islam. This is a prime example.

Someone should ask Saeed bhai why men and women are allowed to pray and be in the same vicinity at the house of God?

I would like to swear my heart out

 

[sjahmed23]

This might get deleted but tableeghis have been cancerious to the Pakistani society. No one understands the true damage they did to us. A whole generation thinks in this world you should not aspire to be or do anything because all you are here to do is prepare for after life. They are taught this from an early age and it has infilterated all segments of society. I hope one day the tableeghis can be put in their place and give way to objective thinking.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistanis have been butchering Islam since 1947. Our religious folks mistake Arab customs for Islam. This is a prime example.

Someone should ask Saeed bhai why men and women are allowed to pray and be in the same vicinity at the house of God?

I would like to swear my heart out

Is this not mingling of sexes not islamic? Rather its a arabic custom?

This is the first time i am hearing that certain islamic customs are actually not islamic but arab customs. Very interesting.

Thanks.

 

[troodon]

This might get deleted but tableeghis have been cancerious to the Pakistani society. No one understands the true damage they did to us. A whole generation thinks in this world you should not aspire to be or do anything because all you are here to do is prepare for after life. They are taught this from an early age and it has infilterated all segments of society. I hope one day the tableeghis can be put in their place and give way to objective thinking.

This life is simply a Test. So you have to follow what God has told you to do in Quran.

The real fruits of your sacrifices will be there when you go to heaven and get everything you desire. Islamic heaven is too good to pass on.

 

[troodon]

Is this not mingling of sexes not islamic? Rather its a arabic custom?

This is the first time i am hearing that certain islamic customs are actually not islamic but arab customs. Very interesting.

Thanks.

Arabs and Iranians are not stupid to follow Gender segregation.

 

[topspin]

This might get deleted but tableeghis have been cancerious to the Pakistani society. No one understands the true damage they did to us. A whole generation thinks in this world you should not aspire to be or do anything because all you are here to do is prepare for after life. They are taught this from an early age and it has infilterated all segments of society. I hope one day the tableeghis can be put in their place and give way to objective thinking.

Point well made. Not to forget Inzy's era as Pakistan captain as well.

 

[MMHS]

On Most threads here Islam is bashed I seen your post and thought same again. My bad for misunderstanding your post.

I am actually someone who has seen TJ very closely, because I live in a place surrounded by TJ & a country which sponsors TJ (not directly, but Canadian Govt. pays good amount as social benefit for apparently taking care of the kids and doing nothing). Most of these TJ people spend lion share of their time gossiping at their Markaz, travelling different places and feast (they call it Dawah), may be when life becomes too boring do some work at cash (means you don't pay Tax)..... In general, TJ people spend half of their day time (9AM to 2PM) sleeping in comfort, until Zuhar Salat. Don't get me wrong, but these people represents Muslims wrongly in a society that values hard work, spiritual liberalization, multiculturalism, women empowerment. It's only in Canada that these people are living in such comfort, otherwise .... Even the Child Care benefit that's paid to us has a purpose - Canadian Tax payers are paying guardians good amount ($650+/month/child), so that they can take better care of the kids - good food, schooling, other extra curriculum activities so that they build a stronger Canadian society in future. Trust me, they don't pay you to send your kids to become Hafeez E Quaran (No disrespect), and leave school after Grade 8-9 ......

If you go through their books, you'll be surprised to know that their fundamental thought process is different from the five columns of Islam - they have six principles

1. Kalimah, 2. Salat, 3. Ilm and Zikr, 4. Ikraam-e-Muslim, 5. Ikhlas-e-Niyyat, 6. Dawat-o-Tableegh (Dawah)

To me, it's not what Prophet (PBUH), said to his ummats on the last Hazz speech. Even then, of those six, I have seen No. 6 to be most prominent one to be honest.

These people are extremely fatalist, and they'll force you to join their party (party, because I attended few - have to say, more food than discussion, and the discussion is quite stereo type, they have few books written by their scholars and they won't encourage any discussion outside those books). I was almost hold at gun point to commit a 40 day tour (Dawah), which I kept declining ... until someone said that - even if you don't go fine, but agree in front of Murrubbi, this is tameez. I said - I won't commit something that I won't perform, sitting inside the house of a Bigger Murubbi..... they stopped talking with me!!!!!

My wife is a Computer Engineer, MBA, PMP - she works as an IT Project Manager in a Bank, and this job she took at lower pay, instead of working directly in Banking operation (product Mgt. could have been Director by now, because she comes with core product management knowledge in Telecom, and unlike me, she completed a Masters on Big Data at Rotman), for reasons you may understand. She uses Hizab even in front of my friends, none outside her family had ever seen her skin part that's not allowed since our marriage, but she doesn't use Nikab. Now, she used to attend TJ's, "Talim" for female, once a week ..... the day she joined a bank, they stopped interacting with her, though social relations are fine, but they don't call her in any of their religious gatherings!!!!!

These people always talk about not to focus on this life (Dunia dari), but I have seen most of then spending lavishly on their food, party (Dawah), travelling, cloths and shoes - because money is easily earned (read obtained) here .... They have great qualities as well - very sweet talker & they'll never say "no" to you. Which is appreciated within their society (because they don't have any priority, any clock), but for jahils like me, it's troublesome - I got caught off guard few times by their commitment. My daughter pays very good chess for her age - because she learned it from her dad and plays with dad (now can beat dad, who is playing without Queen and one Rook) - my neighbor saw it and almost cut his tongue in to pieces - "....Bhai, Chess is haram. Any thing, played with fingers is haram"!!!!!! Then & then I went out and bought a Monopoly for my kid, just to make sure that I am not brain washed.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but brother - WITHOUT listening to TJ, you still can be a very good Muslim. You don't need their "talim", when you yourself can study Holy Quran, Hadith and other books. And, instead of "hidayetting other people", say your own prayers five times, fast during Ramadan, pay your Zakat, plan for your Hazz once in life (able to perform Hazz is Allah's wish, but you have to have a strong "Niyaat" for that, and have to save money for that), try to avoid speaking lies, be loyal to your wife and be a good father - trust me, you don't need the Talim" of TJ. Honestly speaking, there is a strong feeling of superiority complex among TJ people - they try to dictate your every act (but in a sweet voice, they are very good at that), which I don't like (in fact, disgusted with).

Sorry for my strong words, if anyone is offended.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

These people always talk about not to focus on this life (Dunia dari), but I have seen most of then spending lavishly on their food, party (Dawah), travelling, cloths and shoes - because money is easily earned (read obtained) here ....

I have seen similar in the UK, the TJs as they used to be known are quite prominent, or at least used to be. I don't really mix with these types so have no idea how prominent they are these days. But one thing I have commented before on many of the maulvis in Pakistan as well as here, is that they can often be very fat and sedentary looking.

Now these guys have a lot of free time it seems to go on 40 day dawah stints, and also spend a lot of spare time in the mosque, so the two questions I am usually asking is:

How do they earn a living and support their families? Do they just live very simply and don't spend much on home or lifestyle?

Why do they tend to be fat? Again, might be because they don't spend money on anything else like clothes or tech, so maybe they spend it on kebabs instead. But really doesn't seem that much in line with the Prophet (PBUH) who supposedly had a very spartan diet.

 

[Third_Umpire]

What a brilliant player Saeed Anwar was...top 3 going around during his time.

Unfortunately, he is a complete idiot now. How the mighty fall.

 

[DeadBall]

I was almost hold at gun point to commit a 40 day tour (Dawah), which I kept declining ... until someone said that - even if you don't go fine, but agree in front of Murrubbi, this is tameez. I said - I won't commit something that I won't perform, sitting inside the house of a Bigger Murubbi..... they stopped talking with me!!!!!

It's called a "chilla" and I went on one during my summer holidays when I was 13 after my mother enrolled me in one and I didn't want to hurt her feelings. We toured all over UAE (since it was a novice group), the more advanced groups get to travel to abroad.

We stayed in the air conditioned mosques from sunrise till sunset as it was too hot to roam outside. The routine was wake up for Fajr, pray, eat a hearty breakfast of something heavy like paratha, paye, puri, cholay etc and then sleep till Zuhr. Pray Zuhr, do some Zikr and then feast on some Biryani, Korma, Nihari etc and then take a nap till Asr. (Most of the food was donated from local resaurants and families)

Pray Asr and then pass time till Maghrib after which we used to go on the "gasht" which is when they used to go and talk to people and spread the word. The stories they told were grandeur and they mostly targeted the gullible and not so religiously illiterate Desi communities because thew were laughed off by the Arabs, (they asked me to talk to the Arabs but I said no) .

The main problem started when they started saying fantastical and incorrect stories and "facts" to impress the people, mostly because they themselves didn't know it wasn't right and if they did, they didn't care as it enchanted the audiences. I called them out over it a few times later when we were back at the mosque and at first they said I didn't know what I was talking about and when I pointed it out with actual evidence they told me that I don't have the mental capacity of actually understanding what they meant and other whataboutisms.

The main thing that I noticed was how many of these tableeghis were all saintly beaming smiles when they were being condescending and thinking they were teaching you something but when as soon as you questioned them with proof they totally did a 360 and their real asliyat came out.

Anyway after about a couple of weeks I had had enough both physically (due to all the heavy food and inactive lifestyle) and mentally trying to argue with these people so I took a cab back home. Cost me quite a bit of my savings but it was worth it.

 

[JaDed]

I am actually someone who has seen TJ very closely, because I live in a place surrounded by TJ & a country which sponsors TJ (not directly, but Canadian Govt. pays good amount as social benefit for apparently taking care of the kids and doing nothing). Most of these TJ people spend lion share of their time gossiping at their Markaz, travelling different places and feast (they call it Dawah), may be when life becomes too boring do some work at cash (means you don't pay Tax)..... In general, TJ people spend half of their day time (9AM to 2PM) sleeping in comfort, until Zuhar Salat. Don't get me wrong, but these people represents Muslims wrongly in a society that values hard work, spiritual liberalization, multiculturalism, women empowerment. It's only in Canada that these people are living in such comfort, otherwise .... Even the Child Care benefit that's paid to us has a purpose - Canadian Tax payers are paying guardians good amount ($650+/month/child), so that they can take better care of the kids - good food, schooling, other extra curriculum activities so that they build a stronger Canadian society in future. Trust me, they don't pay you to send your kids to become Hafeez E Quaran (No disrespect), and leave school after Grade 8-9 ......

If you go through their books, you'll be surprised to know that their fundamental thought process is different from the five columns of Islam - they have six principles

1. Kalimah, 2. Salat, 3. Ilm and Zikr, 4. Ikraam-e-Muslim, 5. Ikhlas-e-Niyyat, 6. Dawat-o-Tableegh (Dawah)

To me, it's not what Prophet (PBUH), said to his ummats on the last Hazz speech. Even then, of those six, I have seen No. 6 to be most prominent one to be honest.

These people are extremely fatalist, and they'll force you to join their party (party, because I attended few - have to say, more food than discussion, and the discussion is quite stereo type, they have few books written by their scholars and they won't encourage any discussion outside those books). I was almost hold at gun point to commit a 40 day tour (Dawah), which I kept declining ... until someone said that - even if you don't go fine, but agree in front of Murrubbi, this is tameez. I said - I won't commit something that I won't perform, sitting inside the house of a Bigger Murubbi..... they stopped talking with me!!!!!

My wife is a Computer Engineer, MBA, PMP - she works as an IT Project Manager in a Bank, and this job she took at lower pay, instead of working directly in Banking operation (product Mgt. could have been Director by now, because she comes with core product management knowledge in Telecom, and unlike me, she completed a Masters on Big Data at Rotman), for reasons you may understand. She uses Hizab even in front of my friends, none outside her family had ever seen her skin part that's not allowed since our marriage, but she doesn't use Nikab. Now, she used to attend TJ's, "Talim" for female, once a week ..... the day she joined a bank, they stopped interacting with her, though social relations are fine, but they don't call her in any of their religious gatherings!!!!!

These people always talk about not to focus on this life (Dunia dari), but I have seen most of then spending lavishly on their food, party (Dawah), travelling, cloths and shoes - because money is easily earned (read obtained) here .... They have great qualities as well - very sweet talker & they'll never say "no" to you. Which is appreciated within their society (because they don't have any priority, any clock), but for jahils like me, it's troublesome - I got caught off guard few times by their commitment. My daughter pays very good chess for her age - because she learned it from her dad and plays with dad (now can beat dad, who is playing without Queen and one Rook) - my neighbor saw it and almost cut his tongue in to pieces - "....Bhai, Chess is haram. Any thing, played with fingers is haram"!!!!!! Then & then I went out and bought a Monopoly for my kid, just to make sure that I am not brain washed.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but brother - WITHOUT listening to TJ, you still can be a very good Muslim. You don't need their "talim", when you yourself can study Holy Quran, Hadith and other books. And, instead of "hidayetting other people", say your own prayers five times, fast during Ramadan, pay your Zakat, plan for your Hazz once in life (able to perform Hazz is Allah's wish, but you have to have a strong "Niyaat" for that, and have to save money for that), try to avoid speaking lies, be loyal to your wife and be a good father - trust me, you don't need the Talim" of TJ. Honestly speaking, there is a strong feeling of superiority complex among TJ people - they try to dictate your every act (but in a sweet voice, they are very good at that), which I don't like (in fact, disgusted with).

Sorry for my strong words, if anyone is offended.

Glad you called em out, I see similar things happening in Sikhism in Canada and among Hindus in USA (not sure about Canada) but its even more unfair in Canada because the working class pays for social benefits for such people.

There is a Hindu Priest(one in particular) in Dallas area takes about 10k $ just for visiting the home.

 

[DoosraTeesra]

Saeed Anwar the player was great, Saeed anwar the preacher not so much so.

 

[HasanA]

the issue is


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[Saj]

Reminds me of when I went to a wedding and the whole event was divided up, men separate to women.

Felt a bit strange really.

 

[King-Misbah]

Reminds me of when I went to a wedding and the whole event was divided up, men separate to women.

Felt a bit strange really.

What is wrong with that? People should have liberty to choose how they want to organise their functions.

 

[andy0204]

I am actually someone who has seen TJ very closely, because I live in a place surrounded by TJ & a country which sponsors TJ (not directly, but Canadian Govt. pays good amount as social benefit for apparently taking care of the kids and doing nothing). Most of these TJ people spend lion share of their time gossiping at their Markaz, travelling different places and feast (they call it Dawah), may be when life becomes too boring do some work at cash (means you don't pay Tax)..... In general, TJ people spend half of their day time (9AM to 2PM) sleeping in comfort, until Zuhar Salat. Don't get me wrong, but these people represents Muslims wrongly in a society that values hard work, spiritual liberalization, multiculturalism, women empowerment. It's only in Canada that these people are living in such comfort, otherwise .... Even the Child Care benefit that's paid to us has a purpose - Canadian Tax payers are paying guardians good amount ($650+/month/child), so that they can take better care of the kids - good food, schooling, other extra curriculum activities so that they build a stronger Canadian society in future. Trust me, they don't pay you to send your kids to become Hafeez E Quaran (No disrespect), and leave school after Grade 8-9 ......

If you go through their books, you'll be surprised to know that their fundamental thought process is different from the five columns of Islam - they have six principles

1. Kalimah, 2. Salat, 3. Ilm and Zikr, 4. Ikraam-e-Muslim, 5. Ikhlas-e-Niyyat, 6. Dawat-o-Tableegh (Dawah)

To me, it's not what Prophet (PBUH), said to his ummats on the last Hazz speech. Even then, of those six, I have seen No. 6 to be most prominent one to be honest.

These people are extremely fatalist, and they'll force you to join their party (party, because I attended few - have to say, more food than discussion, and the discussion is quite stereo type, they have few books written by their scholars and they won't encourage any discussion outside those books). I was almost hold at gun point to commit a 40 day tour (Dawah), which I kept declining ... until someone said that - even if you don't go fine, but agree in front of Murrubbi, this is tameez. I said - I won't commit something that I won't perform, sitting inside the house of a Bigger Murubbi..... they stopped talking with me!!!!!

My wife is a Computer Engineer, MBA, PMP - she works as an IT Project Manager in a Bank, and this job she took at lower pay, instead of working directly in Banking operation (product Mgt. could have been Director by now, because she comes with core product management knowledge in Telecom, and unlike me, she completed a Masters on Big Data at Rotman), for reasons you may understand. She uses Hizab even in front of my friends, none outside her family had ever seen her skin part that's not allowed since our marriage, but she doesn't use Nikab. Now, she used to attend TJ's, "Talim" for female, once a week ..... the day she joined a bank, they stopped interacting with her, though social relations are fine, but they don't call her in any of their religious gatherings!!!!!

These people always talk about not to focus on this life (Dunia dari), but I have seen most of then spending lavishly on their food, party (Dawah), travelling, cloths and shoes - because money is easily earned (read obtained) here .... They have great qualities as well - very sweet talker & they'll never say "no" to you. Which is appreciated within their society (because they don't have any priority, any clock), but for jahils like me, it's troublesome - I got caught off guard few times by their commitment. My daughter pays very good chess for her age - because she learned it from her dad and plays with dad (now can beat dad, who is playing without Queen and one Rook) - my neighbor saw it and almost cut his tongue in to pieces - "....Bhai, Chess is haram. Any thing, played with fingers is haram"!!!!!! Then & then I went out and bought a Monopoly for my kid, just to make sure that I am not brain washed.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but brother - WITHOUT listening to TJ, you still can be a very good Muslim. You don't need their "talim", when you yourself can study Holy Quran, Hadith and other books. And, instead of "hidayetting other people", say your own prayers five times, fast during Ramadan, pay your Zakat, plan for your Hazz once in life (able to perform Hazz is Allah's wish, but you have to have a strong "Niyaat" for that, and have to save money for that), try to avoid speaking lies, be loyal to your wife and be a good father - trust me, you don't need the Talim" of TJ. Honestly speaking, there is a strong feeling of superiority complex among TJ people - they try to dictate your every act (but in a sweet voice, they are very good at that), which I don't like (in fact, disgusted with).

Sorry for my strong words, if anyone is offended.

My brother went to 3 day jammat and told me that the most important preference they gave to was food(no disrespect) no doubt they gave taalim,my father always oppose to go to jammat,he says that if u really want to be religious read quran what quran means,pray namaaz and he also say that dont just do only namaaz,quran and other arkaan but also live according to prophet muhammad(s.a.a.w) methods.

 

[Abdullah]

This might get deleted but tableeghis have been cancerious to the Pakistani society. No one understands the true damage they did to us. A whole generation thinks in this world you should not aspire to be or do anything because all you are here to do is prepare for after life. They are taught this from an early age and it has infilterated all segments of society. I hope one day the tableeghis can be put in their place and give way to objective thinking.

Don't talk nonsense. I know many many professionals, doctors , accountants and architects, who are practicing tableeghis.

I'm not one by the way! Just providing some balance!!

 

[Saj]

What is wrong with that? People should have liberty to choose how they want to organise their functions.

Yes people can choose.

The funny thing is though the couple getting married and their families didn't want segregation but it was forced onto them by family elders.

I'm expressing an opinion that it felt weird to me, but maybe not to some.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes people can choose.

I'm expressing an opinion that it felt weird to me, but maybe not to some.

You went with your family?

 

[IMMY69]

What is wrong with that? People should have liberty to choose how they want to organise their functions.

Segregation should play no part in any society. I firmly believe in that.
It happens here in the UK too so I stop going to any religious gathering where this occurs.

 

[Captain caveman]

Lol!
You are all muslims and believe in islam, but do you actually know what you believe in?
Saeed anwar is correct in what he is supposed to have done according to his islamic values. In islam men and women are suppose to be segregated from one another. The only males who can see a woman is her father,, brothers, husband and sons. Basically only close male blood relatives who are not allowed in islam to marry her, with the exception of her husband. Even uncles, male cousins and nephews are prohibited.

This is why i keep saying in the west, islam needs to be modernised, as it is virtually impossible to practice in its traditional form. Many people in the west already automatically follow a more updated, liberal islam but then make a hue and cry about people not eating halal meat or girls having pre marital sex.

 

[Musakhel]

tableeghis are funny characters, I can't take them seriously.

 

[minamino]

Yes people can choose.

The funny thing is though the couple getting married and their families didn't want segregation but it was forced onto them by family elders.

I'm expressing an opinion that it felt weird to me, but maybe not to some.

I went to a wedding in Karachi where the bride and groom were sitting in different halls due to segregation and the groom was busy smoking cigarettes and vapes with his friends. Kinda felt bad for him.

 

[saeedhk]

Islamic preachers need to catch up with the rest of the world. They need to stop being so idle and sit around in mosques in the name spreading knowledge.

Almost all Pakistani Islamic preachers I met in Hong Kong were extremely ignorant and lacked any understanding of Islam and the world in general.

All I heard them saying was that the whole world was conspiring against Islam and how western education was promoting vulgarity and atheism.

What I despise about Pakistani mullahs is that they tell people women should have no role outside their homes because when women leave their homes, crime and rape happen.

 

[Captain caveman]

Islamic preachers need to catch up with the rest of the world. They need to stop being so idle and sit around in mosques in the name spreading knowledge.

Almost all Pakistani Islamic preachers I met in Hong Kong were extremely ignorant and lacked any understanding of Islam and the world in general.

All I heard them saying was that the whole world was conspiring against Islam and how western education was promoting vulgarity and atheism.

What I despise about Pakistani mullahs is that they tell people women should have no role outside their homes because when women leave their homes, crime and rape happen.

Lol!
Traditional islam says women are home bearers and men go out to earn a living!
If you believe in something, then at least find out what you are believing in!
This is the reason i only consider myself as a muslim by heritage and not a muslim by belief!

 

[saeedhk]

Lol!
Traditional islam says women are home bearers and men go out to earn a living!
If you believe in something, then at least find out what you are believing in!
This is the reason i only consider myself as a muslim by heritage and not a muslim by belief!

Do you know there were women who went out of their houses to earn a living during Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) era?

 

[King-Misbah]

Segregation should play no part in any society. I firmly believe in that.
It happens here in the UK too so I stop going to any religious gathering where this occurs.

You are no one to dictate people. If people believe in segregation then they should be allowed to practise this. Being a true liberal means respecting other peoples beliefs.

 

[Captain caveman]

Do you know there were women who went out of their houses to earn a living during Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) era?

Women who had no husbands- widows!

 

[MMHS]

Lol!
Traditional islam says women are home bearers and men go out to earn a living!
If you believe in something, then at least find out what you are believing in!
This is the reason i only consider myself as a muslim by heritage and not a muslim by belief!

Can you show/refer me where it’s written?

I am not sure what you mean by segregation of men & women, but history tells that Bibi Ayesha Rdh. (PBUH) led troops in battle filed as Army Chief., obviously with proper attire and isolation. Bibi Khadiza (PBUH) inherited her deceased husband’s property and she ran that business.


I am not sure exactly what ANWAR said in his speech, but if it’s related to Imran’s child out of marriage, then he is definitely right - it’s advised that every child must be recognised by their biological father and inherits part of his property.

However, if it’s related to taking care of family members, I don’t think TJ people has much weight in their speech - these are some of the most selfish people I have seen, when it comes to care for family, wife or kids. I can explain in details, because I have mixed with them closely for many months to study myself and my findings are not exemplary. Here in Canada, we don’t have many close relatives, hence family members are close bonded - but, I have seen most of the TJ people goes to Jumma on Friday, from there straight to Markaz.... spend there for two days and often return on Monday morning - this is weekly routine. Their wives/kids have accepted this because they are being brain washed, and they don’t demand anything either - I have seen families where wife hasn’t gone to a family outing for years!!!!

You have no idea at what fanatic level this theory of segregation has gone. As I said, we decided to live in an area surrounded by TJ people - not from devotion, rather in this country, we wanted our kids to be raised in an environment which builds Islamic values in them. We can afford to life in downtown Toronto, but if the values are not embedded now in 5-6 years old kids, we won’t be able to control them at 16, and in this country, you can’t impose anything on kids, let alone force.

So, we live in a building with several apartments and use common elevator. One Sunday I entered in an elevator, there was a lady (alone) standing inside already, in full nikab... as I entered, she just left the elevator - won’t travel alone with me, though they are travelling by subway with other male!!!!!! I felt insulted because it was a question mark on my intention & had to tell it to my wife because it’s better for her to listen it from me rather than someone else. She said other part of the story - TJ males don’t respond to her Salam!!!!!

Islam has given the highest honour to female and highest level of freedom - it doesn’t tell about isolation, rather it tells about preserving own dignity. There are lots of misinterpretations which has led to extreme calls. Take one example - Burkha. The spirit is that females should veil themselves from other males, and won’t wear something revealing their curves ...... we made Burkha compulsory!!!!! Women get sick, gives birth to child and there could be complications - if another woman doesn’t study medicine, how sick women can be treated? And, how can they study, learn if they are kept isolated, veiled & enclosed?

 

[Captain caveman]

Can you show/refer me where it’s written?

I am not sure what you mean by segregation of men & women, but history tells that Bibi Ayesha Rdh. (PBUH) led troops in battle filed as Army Chief., obviously with proper attire and isolation. Bibi Khadiza (PBUH) inherited her deceased husband’s property and she ran that business.


I am not sure exactly what ANWAR said in his speech, but if it’s related to Imran’s child out of marriage, then he is definitely right - it’s advised that every child must be recognised by their biological father and inherits part of his property.

However, if it’s related to taking care of family members, I don’t think TJ people has much weight in their speech - these are some of the most selfish people I have seen, when it comes to care for family, wife or kids. I can explain in details, because I have mixed with them closely for many months to study myself and my findings are not exemplary. Here in Canada, we don’t have many close relatives, hence family members are close bonded - but, I have seen most of the TJ people goes to Jumma on Friday, from there straight to Markaz.... spend there for two days and often return on Monday morning - this is weekly routine. Their wives/kids have accepted this because they are being brain washed, and they don’t demand anything either - I have seen families where wife hasn’t gone to a family outing for years!!!!

You have no idea at what fanatic level this theory of segregation has gone. As I said, we decided to live in an area surrounded by TJ people - not from devotion, rather in this country, we wanted our kids to be raised in an environment which builds Islamic values in them. We can afford to life in downtown Toronto, but if the values are not embedded now in 5-6 years old kids, we won’t be able to control them at 16, and in this country, you can’t impose anything on kids, let alone force.

So, we live in a building with several apartments and use common elevator. One Sunday I entered in an elevator, there was a lady (alone) standing inside already, in full nikab... as I entered, she just left the elevator - won’t travel alone with me, though they are travelling by subway with other male!!!!!! I felt insulted because it was a question mark on my intention & had to tell it to my wife because it’s better for her to listen it from me rather than someone else. She said other part of the story - TJ males don’t respond to her Salam!!!!!

Islam has given the highest honour to female and highest level of freedom - it doesn’t tell about isolation, rather it tells about preserving own dignity. There are lots of misinterpretations which has led to extreme calls. Take one example - Burkha. The spirit is that females should veil themselves from other males, and won’t wear something revealing their curves ...... we made Burkha compulsory!!!!! Women get sick, gives birth to child and there could be complications - if another woman doesn’t study medicine, how sick women can be treated? And, how can they study, learn if they are kept isolated, veiled & enclosed?

I do not support gender segregation or people with such views, but gender segregation is a part of traditional islam. You can find it from the exclusion of women from mosques in the prophets time, to the quran and hadiths saying that women are homebearers and men should go out to work.
I do not give references to things i do not believe in, but you are free to research it yourself and if you find contradictory genuine evidence against what i said to correct me, i welcome anyone correcting my genuine mistakes, as we can all learn from each other.

 

[mgtow]

I do not support gender segregation or people with such views, but gender segregation is a part of traditional islam. You can find it from the exclusion of women from mosques in the prophets time, to the quran and hadiths saying that women are homebearers and men should go out to work.
I do not give references to things i do not believe in, but you are free to research it yourself and if you find contradictory genuine evidence against what i said to correct me, i welcome anyone correcting my genuine mistakes, as we can all learn from each other.

I think the women did attend Mosque to offer prayers and sermons. And the conference meeting that took place in public place. Back then, there was segregation. Both men and women were on the front show but not together. Men with men and women with women as part of segregation which prevents mingling and everyone feels included.

As for Saeed Anwar's lecture, women should have been put on front but not together with men. It is not fair to put women way behind the hall. Women won't feel included. After all, women are the queen and they deserve the utmost priority over men.

 

[Captain caveman]

I think the women did attend Mosque to offer prayers and sermons. And the conference meeting that took place in public place. Back then, there was segregation. Both men and women were on the front show but not together. Men with men and women with women as part of segregation which prevents mingling and everyone feels included.

As for Saeed Anwar's lecture, women should have been put on front but not together with men. It is not fair to put women way behind the hall. Women won't feel included. After all, women are the queen and they deserve the utmost priority over men.

Thank you for correcting me.
If you believe in gender segregation the best way is not one gender infront and the other gender sat behind but a partition straight down the middle from the stage (front) to the back, with women on one side and men on the other, this way, the two genders can not see each other but no gender is given priority of being at the front.
However, i do not believe in gender segregation, myself.

 

[ExpressPacer]

When Ustad Nauman Ali Khan lectures about Islam - men and women sit in the same room.

One must not fall in the generalization trap.

Isn't he the same guy that was indulging in extra-marital affairs?

 

[ExpressPacer]

Is this not mingling of sexes not islamic? Rather its a arabic custom?

This is the first time i am hearing that certain islamic customs are actually not islamic but arab customs. Very interesting.

Thanks.

Indeed. Even the Niqab is CULTURE. Or even Abaya. Nowhere does it say in the Quran.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indeed. Even the Niqab is CULTURE. Or even Abaya. Nowhere does it say in the Quran.

Really?

Isnt Abaya a part of not showing skin or dressing moderately?

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

[mgtow]

Indeed. Even the Niqab is CULTURE. Or even Abaya. Nowhere does it say in the Quran.

Holy Quran does say cover yourself; head, leg, the entire body as sign of submission to ALLAH.

So Niqab, Burqa, Hijaab are part of cultures which is true but they are in accordance to the specification of Islam much like any appropriate dress that can meet the specification of Holy Quran accordingly.

Technicality, they are part of Islam in the sense of spirituality.

 

[LongHorn]

They have a strong concept of Markaz and Amir, some similarities I guess to the Mormon system

They also have some standard reasoning systems they use repeatedly

1) On Chilla, they guilt trap by saying "you can spend x number of years for a degree, but you cannot devote just 7/40 days for sake of Allah?"

2) About leaving family behind, they say, "if you go out on path of Allah i.e. Chilla, He will take care of your family"

 

[IMMY69]

You are no one to dictate people. If people believe in segregation then they should be allowed to practise this. Being a true liberal means respecting other peoples beliefs.

I think I can dictate.
If a man with a long beared can utter nonsense then I can say what I like too.

 

[Captain caveman]

Gender segregation has its plus points , in that it prevents pre marital and extra marital sex. This is why it is prescribed in islam. Everything prescribed in islam is for the benefit of human beings.

The problem is that gender segregation was simple in small villages and towns like medina in the 7th century, but is completely impractical in the 21st century in big cities like karachi(25 million people or lahore (20 million people) etc. Also, what about widows with small children, they need to work to support their children. Just a couple impracitalities of gender segregation, there are many more.

 

[mgtow]

They have a strong concept of Markaz and Amir, some similarities I guess to the Mormon system

They also have some standard reasoning systems they use repeatedly

1) On Chilla, they guilt trap by saying "you can spend x number of years for a degree, but you cannot devote just 7/40 days for sake of Allah?"

2) About leaving family behind, they say, "if you go out on path of Allah i.e. Chilla, He will take care of your family"

I remember the quote where Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (R.A) said if you want to give Dawah about Islam, do it by action — meaning be good Muslim and lead by example.

You don’t need Tableeghi Jamaat to be closer to ALLAH in terms of spirituality and use them as Dawah since being good Muslim and leading by example is all you need to inspire people into Islam. That is how Islam spread through the lifestyle and examples of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W).

 

[King-Misbah]

I think I can dictate.
If a man with a long beared can utter nonsense then I can say what I like too.

Then your a fake desi liberal and importantly a hypocrit.

 

[emranabbas]

So many misleading posts in this thread
Everyone has their own version of Islam

 

[Captain caveman]

So many misleading posts in this thread
Everyone has their own version of Islam

Absolutely!
The premise of islam is to study the holy quran and interpret with a clean heart. Now at the start, our Prophet(pbuh) was there to guide us(sunnah) like a teacher in school, but the Prophet(pbuh) left us to continue to learn and understand islam with a clean, sincere and sympathetic heart.
Only the things in islam that are fard(farz) are written indisputedly, the rest which are sunnah are left to our interpretation. All of this will be judged on qayamat or judgement day, i.e. if you followed the path of islam in a clear, sincere and sympathetic manner.

 

[IMMY69]

Then your a fake desi liberal and importantly a hypocrit.

Look you can’t just say that.
If someone has an opposing view then don’t just hit them with insults.

 

[IMMY69]

Absolutely!
The premise of islam is to study the holy quran and interpret with a clean heart. Now at the start, our Prophet(pbuh) was there to guide us(sunnah) like a teacher in school, but the Prophet(pbuh) left us to continue to learn and understand islam with a clean, sincere and sympathetic heart.
Only the things in islam that are fard(farz) are written indisputedly, the rest which are sunnah are left to our interpretation. All of this will be judged on qayamat or judgement day, i.e. if you followed the path of islam in a clear, sincere and sympathetic manner.

So tell me who will be punished for creating women ogling, frustrated men??
Will it be the poor men themselves, society or the bearded religious nutcases?

 

[Captain caveman]

To be honest, i didn't understand your question, but i will answer what i think you were asking.
According to islam, every human will be judged on judgement day.
Allah(swt).gave humans the abilty to choose what their actions are and each individual will be judged on the actions they have taken in their lives.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are no one to dictate people. If people believe in segregation then they should be allowed to practise this. Being a true liberal means respecting other peoples beliefs.

How can anyone dictate someone else's wedding? If I get invited to segregated weddings I usually just make an excuse and don't go. I don't want my family split up into different areas. This happens very rarely in my community anyway, but one born again Wahabi cousin did go that direction and it wasn't the greatest success. The rest of his family didn't follow suit in subsequent functions.

But each to their own, if that is how they want their happy occasion they are welcome to it.

 

[IMMY69]

To be honest, i didn't understand your question, but i will answer what i think you were asking.
According to islam, every human will be judged on judgement day.
Allah(swt).gave humans the abilty to choose what their actions are and each individual will be judged on the actions they have taken in their lives.

Ok so when you go to Pakistan, the poorer men especially, ogle at the women.
Whose fault is this? How will these men be judged on Judgement day? Surely its not there fault?

If you deprive these men and Bain wash them then they will turn out to be the way they are. So who takes the blame for this?

Something is wrong when in the west you can have half naked women wondering around and not even getting the slightest attention whereas the fully clothed women is practically raped by the eyes in a country like Pakistan.

 

[Captain caveman]

How can anyone dictate someone else's wedding? If I get invited to segregated weddings I usually just make an excuse and don't go. I don't want my family split up into different areas. This happens very rarely in my community anyway, but one born again Wahabi cousin did go that direction and it wasn't the greatest success. The rest of his family didn't follow suit in subsequent functions.

But each to their own, if that is how they want their happy occasion they are welcome to it.

In the uk weddings are non segregated but all the weddings i have been in pakistan you have a mens area and a womens area and i am from well to do extended family from lahore.

 

[last_knight]

I am actually someone who has seen TJ very closely, because I live in a place surrounded by TJ & a country which sponsors TJ (not directly, but Canadian Govt. pays good amount as social benefit for apparently taking care of the kids and doing nothing). Most of these TJ people spend lion share of their time gossiping at their Markaz, travelling different places and feast (they call it Dawah), may be when life becomes too boring do some work at cash (means you don't pay Tax)..... In general, TJ people spend half of their day time (9AM to 2PM) sleeping in comfort, until Zuhar Salat. Don't get me wrong, but these people represents Muslims wrongly in a society that values hard work, spiritual liberalization, multiculturalism, women empowerment. It's only in Canada that these people are living in such comfort, otherwise .... Even the Child Care benefit that's paid to us has a purpose - Canadian Tax payers are paying guardians good amount ($650+/month/child), so that they can take better care of the kids - good food, schooling, other extra curriculum activities so that they build a stronger Canadian society in future. Trust me, they don't pay you to send your kids to become Hafeez E Quaran (No disrespect), and leave school after Grade 8-9 ......

If you go through their books, you'll be surprised to know that their fundamental thought process is different from the five columns of Islam - they have six principles

1. Kalimah, 2. Salat, 3. Ilm and Zikr, 4. Ikraam-e-Muslim, 5. Ikhlas-e-Niyyat, 6. Dawat-o-Tableegh (Dawah)

To me, it's not what Prophet (PBUH), said to his ummats on the last Hazz speech. Even then, of those six, I have seen No. 6 to be most prominent one to be honest.

These people are extremely fatalist, and they'll force you to join their party (party, because I attended few - have to say, more food than discussion, and the discussion is quite stereo type, they have few books written by their scholars and they won't encourage any discussion outside those books). I was almost hold at gun point to commit a 40 day tour (Dawah), which I kept declining ... until someone said that - even if you don't go fine, but agree in front of Murrubbi, this is tameez. I said - I won't commit something that I won't perform, sitting inside the house of a Bigger Murubbi..... they stopped talking with me!!!!!

My wife is a Computer Engineer, MBA, PMP - she works as an IT Project Manager in a Bank, and this job she took at lower pay, instead of working directly in Banking operation (product Mgt. could have been Director by now, because she comes with core product management knowledge in Telecom, and unlike me, she completed a Masters on Big Data at Rotman), for reasons you may understand. She uses Hizab even in front of my friends, none outside her family had ever seen her skin part that's not allowed since our marriage, but she doesn't use Nikab. Now, she used to attend TJ's, "Talim" for female, once a week ..... the day she joined a bank, they stopped interacting with her, though social relations are fine, but they don't call her in any of their religious gatherings!!!!!

These people always talk about not to focus on this life (Dunia dari), but I have seen most of then spending lavishly on their food, party (Dawah), travelling, cloths and shoes - because money is easily earned (read obtained) here .... They have great qualities as well - very sweet talker & they'll never say "no" to you. Which is appreciated within their society (because they don't have any priority, any clock), but for jahils like me, it's troublesome - I got caught off guard few times by their commitment. My daughter pays very good chess for her age - because she learned it from her dad and plays with dad (now can beat dad, who is playing without Queen and one Rook) - my neighbor saw it and almost cut his tongue in to pieces - "....Bhai, Chess is haram. Any thing, played with fingers is haram"!!!!!! Then & then I went out and bought a Monopoly for my kid, just to make sure that I am not brain washed.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but brother - WITHOUT listening to TJ, you still can be a very good Muslim. You don't need their "talim", when you yourself can study Holy Quran, Hadith and other books. And, instead of "hidayetting other people", say your own prayers five times, fast during Ramadan, pay your Zakat, plan for your Hazz once in life (able to perform Hazz is Allah's wish, but you have to have a strong "Niyaat" for that, and have to save money for that), try to avoid speaking lies, be loyal to your wife and be a good father - trust me, you don't need the Talim" of TJ. Honestly speaking, there is a strong feeling of superiority complex among TJ people - they try to dictate your every act (but in a sweet voice, they are very good at that), which I don't like (in fact, disgusted with).

Sorry for my strong words, if anyone is offended.

No disrespect to anyone as it's their right to chose and practice whatever they want to, but there is no Ours and US in lectures of TJ scholars, only Me and I. I did this, i did that. I said this I said that. "Main" bahut hay in their lectures, and it stems from the core concepts of extremism. With time, in 2-3 decades TJ will either dissolve or adopt to more outright extremism.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In the uk weddings are non segregated but all the weddings i have been in pakistan you have a mens area and a womens area and i am from well to do extended family from lahore.

I am not passing judgement on what goes on in Pakistan, but in the UK it is pretty pointless having segregation when boys and girls mix in every other sphere of life like school and university.

 

[barah_admi]

I am not passing judgement on what goes on in Pakistan, but in the UK it is pretty pointless having segregation when boys and girls mix in every other sphere of life like school and university.

There are clubs segregated based on gender in the UK. Posh "Men's" clubs all across the country with an ever growing list of posh "women's" clubs too. Let us stop acting like the separation of the sexes is unusual....unless we only think its wrong when a brown skinned people does it?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Saeed Anwar for your Bhaijaan is nothing but 1990s nostalgia. I try hard not to think of Saeed Anwar because whenever his name comes up i get emotional imagining his wristy flicks and cover drives. He was a player of a different class. He was in all honesty The KL Rahul of his era. He was just a God sent genius batsman. In 150 years history of cricket there have only been a handful batsmen of his class. Its not even a debate whether he is the greatest Pakistani batsman after Sir Haneef Muhammad The original little master.

Miss you Saeed Bhai.

I wish his daughter had not died leading to him losing interest in cricket.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There are clubs segregated based on gender in the UK. Posh "Men's" clubs all across the country with an ever growing list of posh "women's" clubs too. Let us stop acting like the separation of the sexes is unusual....unless we only think its wrong when a brown skinned people does it?

I don't have any problem with men only clubs or women only clubs. But on important community events like weddings all members of families are invited, there aren't separate events for men and women, it is a shared event.

That said, for those who want to separate men and women on the happy occasion, they have the right to do so, I just gave my personal opinion that I would avoid those events mostly. I attended a Hazara wedding this year and that was segregated, and I found myself sitting with a bunch of strangers. It was all a bit dull.

 

[AdamM97]

As much as I personally find this ridiculous, Saeed Anwar has every right to do so.

Even in the west, a few concerts/festivals have been organized where no males have been allowed and a few traditional Jewish synagogues have seperate rooms for males and females.

 

[MMHS]

No disrespect to anyone as it's their right to chose and practice whatever they want to, but there is no Ours and US in lectures of TJ scholars, only Me and I. I did this, i did that. I said this I said that. "Main" bahut hay in their lectures, and it stems from the core concepts of extremism. With time, in 2-3 decades TJ will either dissolve or adopt to more outright extremism.

They will break into several pieces with each group having own leader, philosophy & books. Already there is a crack and two main streams are not in talking terms - one is the old school TJ, HQ being at Rewindh, Lahore and there is a new group (you can say progressive TJ), for which, the leader is based in Delhi..... and both group have their second in command at Kakrail Mosque, Dhaka.

Now, the animosity has gone to such a level that we have two Iztema at Tongi every year and the leader of the Delhi group isn’t allowed to enter Bangladesh - his second in command runs the show during Iztema!!!! Last year, combined two, 3.5 million people attended Iztema and almost half a million foreigners!!!

It’s good for me though - I keep in touch with both groups (for the action items of the Dawat part only), and enjoy biryani, paya, karai, kebab, whole chicken twice or thrice a month.... I hope, they never realise that this guy is a hard nut - I’ll keep eating biriyani for free for next 50 years if so, but.....